Mike: [00:00:05] Welcome back to the How To Become A Personal Trainer podcast, episode three. I’m your host, Mike Vacanti.
Jordan: [00:00:10] My name is Jordan Syatt.
Mike: [00:00:11] And in this episode we had a guest on for the first time.
Jordan: [00:00:14] Which was actually, it was a really fun, it was a great conversation.
Mike: [00:00:17] Yeah, it was amazing. However, there was one slight issue.
Jordan: [00:00:20] The audio came out a little bit weird. You can still hear it, but hopefully it’s not too bad because the conversation truly was spectacular.
Mike: [00:00:28] Yeah. Rachel is a woman who just moved to New York city and she has experience as a personal trainer previously and has been outside of the industry for the past few years and is now restarting.
Jordan: [00:00:40] She has a number of concerns getting back into the industry. Number one, body insecurity; not sure if she looks the part. Uh, she’s also not sure if her knowledge is up to par. She’s not really sure where to begin as a coach. Should she be doing online? Should she be doing in-person? What about her social media?
So, Mike and I spoke to her, had about an hour or so conversation that went really, really well, and we think you’re going to get a lot out of it.
Mike: [00:01:04] Enjoy the episode.
Jordan: [00:01:13] What’s going on and welcome back to the How To Become A Personal Trainer podcast. My name is Jordan Syatt.
Mike: [00:01:17] My name is Mike Vacanti. Welcome to episode three. And today we have a very special guest.
Jordan: [00:01:22] We are very excited to have you with us. Basically, I’ll give the background, a little bit of a brief story, but, uh, I got a DM on Instagram about like a week ago or so, was it?
Rachel: [00:01:32] A few days ago.
Jordan: [00:01:33] A few days ago, sure, asking for help with becoming a personal trainer. Someone who was previously in the industry and has dabbled in and out of it, but basically now looking for more guidance from mentors, uh, some mentorship, ideas on where to go, what to do. And I don’t want to put any words into your mouth, so would you like to sort of introduce yourself, what you’re doing, like what you want to do and how we might be able to help you?
Rachel: [00:01:56] Yeah. So, my name is Rachel Emadi. I just moved out here to New York city in September from Washington State, and I was a personal trainer back in 2011. Did it for a few years, got out of the industry, and now I’m looking to get back into the fitness industry, back into training.
But just kind of feeling a little overwhelmed with being in a new city, not knowing anybody in the fitness industry out here, and trying to figure out what is going to be the best path for me to take.
Jordan: [00:02:33] Yeah.
Mike: [00:02:33] Can you talk a little bit about the first, like, when you experienced burnout in those first few years of training? Like, what your experiences were?
Rachel: [00:02:41] Yeah, so I was working for– I started personal training working for just like a local box gym. And then after like about a year or so went and, started working for David Barton Gym, which was a completely different experience. But it got taxing really quick because those types of gyms a lot of times are more based off of the sales than it is actually training people.
And even– like the first gym that I worked at; they were doing sessions based off of like half an hour session. So, you can barely even get a legitimate workout– that’s like, you know, a warmup and a half. And you know, you have all these clients back to back to back, you’re working early mornings, you’re working late nights to hit the working class.
And then you’re trying to get your workout in, in the middle of the day and you’re trying to respond to people and, and build out programs, and it can just– after, you know, the first seven, eight-hour day, it can feel exhausting. Because, you know, just as much as it’s physical, it is very mental at the same time.
And these people are paying for your time and for you to listen to them. And you’re kind of like a therapist at the same time, so it is really taxing. And I would say within even the first month, I was like, “Oh, what did I get myself into?”
And I think even me in general, as a person, I tend to be a little bit introverted. And so you can’t be introverted and be a trainer, you know, like you have to be like– not really like in people’s faces, but you have to connect and you have to adapt and figure out what communication style is going to be best for this person or that person. And, um–
Jordan: [00:04:38] You can’t really take time for yourself when you’re in the middle of a conversation.
Rachel: [00:04:41] No. No. And then especially, even if during your breaks, if you even want to work out, like, if you’re working out at that same gym that you’re training out of–
Jordan: [00:04:47] They’ll ask you questions….
Rachel: [00:04:48] Yeah. It’s nonstop. And so I think for me too– I got a little bit burnt out, which that kind of leads me to try to figure out, okay, well I know I’ve had that experience in the past and I know that’s– working for, you know, a box gym is maybe the easiest way to get back into doing it. But do I want to do that again?
It is somewhat of a stable source of income ’cause you kind of just get clients fed to you. But then it is really taxing and I don’t know if I really want to go down that route. So that is something, you know, I was wondering if you guys can touch on just being out here too in the city; how do you figure out which gyms to connect with or studios and who’s legitimate, who’s not, who can kind of match your style in. Um–
Jordan: [00:05:48] Well let me ask you this: do you have a goal to strive for? Do you want to only coach people in person? Do you want to do online? Do you want to do both? Is there something else?
Rachel: [00:05:57] So that’s another thing I wanted to ask you guys. I prefer in person, but I do know that most people do online–
Jordan: [00:06:10] Which is so crazy to think about now, ’cause you’re five years ago that was not the case.
Rachel: [00:06:15] Yeah. Well even when I started back in 2011; completely different landscape with training. I mean, there was Facebook, but people were really using Facebook.
Jordan: [00:06:24] Instagram didn’t exist, right?
Rachel: [00:06:25] None of that. So, and yeah, there was all these just random cookie cutter workouts and nutrition plans, “you’re going to eat this can of tuna and steamed broccoli, and then just cry in between your meals,” but yeah, I mean–
Jordan: [00:06:46] If someone did that now, they’d be blasted on social media.
Mike: [00:06:49] Oh yeah.
Jordan: [00:06:49] If they like gave out a meal plan like that, they’d be blessed on social media.
Rachel: [00:06:53] Yeah. So yeah, I think my plan– I would like to stick with face-to-face, in-person coaching, but I still know that online is probably– it’s not, it’s not, it wouldn’t be bad to add that in, but I think with where I’m at right now, because I’m trying to ease into it, I am looking to find mentors and find connections, maybe do some training for free. And yeah, I mean, I don’t wanna– I don’t want to deal with imposter syndrome and feeling like, “okay, yeah, I do have a certification and I did train years ago, but I haven’t done it in such a long time and now I’m pivoting back into it.” I don’t want to seem like I don’t know what I’m doing and I feel like to get back into it, it would only be beneficial to meet people, start slow, and offer services for free; build that rapport, and then–
Jordan: [00:07:58] That’s perfect.
Mike: [00:07:59] Yeah. You’re speaking our language, which is so rare because how many people say, “I want to coach people for free to get experience and make sure, like you feel good about your skill set and where you are today?”
Jordan: [00:08:10] I think it says a lot about generational differences too, in terms of someone coming from that early 2011-2010 background versus now, people who messaged are like, “hey, so I want to be an Instagram coach.”
Mike: [00:08:21] “How can I make 100K this year?”
Jordan: [00:08:24] So just the fact that you’re number one– I think most importantly, that you’re excited and want to coach in person breaks down so many barriers and it sets you up for success.
The fact that you want to do that is, honestly, it makes me super happy and it lets me know that you’re in the right mental space for this. The question now– and there’s a bunch of questions, but I think one of the more important ones is– you don’t have to give specifics, like, financially are you okay right now?
Like, do you need a job? Do you need to coach a lot on the floor? Do you have stuff saved up for a certain amount of time? ‘Cause that’s going to dictate what might be right for you. So, like, do you need to be coaching eight hours a day on the floor or do you have a little bit more leeway?
Rachel: [00:09:06] I have money saved up that I started to save up like two years ago, ’cause I knew I wanted to get out of the job I was doing at the time. So, I didn’t know what I was going to do, but I started saving up. So, I do have money, but as you guys know, living out here, that money goes quick. And I mean, I would like to say I don’t need money right away, but probably within a few months I’m gonna need to start getting some sort of income. And I know I’m not going to be making anywhere near what I was making, you know, doing my previous job back in Washington, but thankfully, you know, I do have some money saved up.
But I wouldn’t say no to money right away.
Jordan: [00:10:01] Of course.
Rachel: [00:10:01] That’s why I’m like, do I go to a box gym and try to find a job there just to have some income or do I do something on the side for free and just tough it out for the next few months?
Jordan: [00:10:14] This is the question, right? And this is where there are many options, but the fact that you do have some money saved up, it does give you some leeway and it gives you some opportunity that like if you’re like, “hey, I need money now or I’m going to be homeless,” then I would say working for free probably isn’t the best option in this moment.
I think there are other options. I think we could discuss all the pros and cons of each of them. What would you start with, Mike?
Mike: [00:10:40] I would start by saying burnout comes– so. to back up a step, you have to be an unbelievably special type of person to work in a box gym as your career. Like, almost no one does that because it’s inherently– like because you have to be up for the morning shift, because you have to work the night shift. It burns people out. Like, most people can’t do that forever.
The beauty is, especially in bigger cities, but really everywhere, training independently has a much higher hourly rate than working at a box gym.
So, where you might be making– and different gyms do it differently, but you might be making a straight hourly or you might be making a very low hourly and then a percentage of sessions from a box gym. Here in New York City, $125-$150 for a 55-minute session is pretty standard as an independent coach, so you can work three times less and focus that much more effort and energy on one-on-one independent clients, than you can working in a box gym or in any kind of commercial gym.
So, the question there is how to transition from being in a brand-new city to starting to accumulate independent clients that are just yours and I think working for free is an unbelievable start to that.
Jordan: [00:12:05] Yeah, I would say you have the option of, number one, going to a box gym, right? And one of the things I like about that option is, like you were saying, I think before we even started recording, is that they sort of feed you clients and you don’t know who they’re feeding you. A lot of times it’s people who are very well off, especially in New York City.
And I know for me personally, when I first worked in a box gym, when I first started coaching at a college, I still have clients who work– who like from that box gym then came with me when I started working on my own and started my own gym and then went online and they followed me everywhere I went.
I think there’s a lot of value to working somewhere, even for a short period of time, three months, four months, five months, developing really good relationships with them to the point where they love you as a coach. They love you as a person. They value you and they will follow you wherever you go.
So, for me, I know if I go to a box gym, I’ll be burned out super quick and I’ll leave. But I think that knowing there’s a timeline there, you’re like three months, six months, whatever it is, you get an opportunity to interact with people who will then be your greatest and most trusted and loyal followers and clients ever. I think it’s a huge option.
The other option is going to more of a private gym, right? And there are several in the city that Mike and I both know the owners very well, whether it’s Mark Fisher’s gym, Kevin Dineen’s gym, or other gyms that are privately owned facilities that do great work, that treat their coaches very, very well, and which I don’t think it’s the same as a box gym just because they’re actually much more focused on high quality coaching than they are on making dollars per client per minute. But you’d get a lot of experience there, you definitely wouldn’t be dealing with imposter syndrome ’cause they’re actually focused on helping the coaches improve. I think that would be a really good option too.
But I think– for me personally, if I’m thinking where my head space is at in terms of, for me, if I’m comfortable with where I’m at coaching wise, I know my knowledge is good, and I know what’s possible, I would probably go towards the box gym route because you are still a little bit– you have more autonomy over your schedule, you have more autonomy over what you do. You don’t have to do whatever the head coach or the owner of the gym is telling you to do. You can sort of coach in whatever way you want, interact with people, develop that trusted following, and then leave in whatever capacity you want.
I think New York City is a very special place in which if you become very friendly or have a couple clients who are like really trusted– they really trust you a lot, they like working with you, you could eventually go to their house or go to their apartment, coach them there. And then not only that, you could then do it with maybe them and a friend or two of their friends and then maybe their spouses or whatever. All of a sudden you have a group of four to six different people that you work with. If it was $125 an hour for that one person, and you say, “you know what, how about we make it like $75 per person?” And then you do for three people. Now all of a sudden, you’re making more money than you would have in that same hour for a small group session.
And they’re doing it with their friends. And then you can do it with their spouses and whoever else.
Mike: [00:15:00] But the easiest way to get there– and this is what I did when I first moved to New York City in 2013 was worked some amount of time — for me it was a little over a year — but in a more traditional gym setting meeting people, getting that experience back. ‘Cause you have the base of experience, which is amazing, but just getting– you know, it’s like riding a bike: it’ll come back very quickly.
Rachel: [00:15:26] Right. And that’s another thing I’m kind of struggling with, is having that confidence of feeling good enough to start training again.
Jordan: [00:15:36] That won’t come.
Rachel: [00:15:36] I know that there’s the informational side where it’s like, “okay, just go read a book,” or like, you know, intern, do things for free, just spending more time on the floor with different clients.
But then there’s the physical side too, where– you know, I have insecurities about my own body and I know a lot of trainers are always working to get better for themselves, but sometimes I don’t even feel like I would look like a trainer, so how am I going to get clients? Or how do you deal with feeling like you’re not good enough to market yourself where people are going to actually give a shit about what you have to say?
Jordan: [00:16:25] Do you want to start where you want me to start? You go.
Mike: [00:16:35] I’ll start and just say, you’re right in that, from the client’s perspective, on average, someone– if you take two coaches and you don’t know anything about them and one is very in-shape and one is not, the client is going to initially assume that the more in-shape coach is the better coach.
All three of us know that’s not always the case and through time people, especially if you’re in the same gym, people figure out who the good coaches and the not so good coaches are. Objectively speaking, since the three of us are sitting in the same room, and I know that it’s very hard for myself, for others, for clients I’ve worked with, to see themselves objectively. But objectively speaking, you just look like a very fit individual. And so, you might see yourself in– and we don’t need to go down this route, but you might see yourself slightly different than reality in that you look very fit and you look the part, in my opinion.
Jordan: [00:17:33] Not only that, it’s actually been super interesting; when I first got into the online world, I was an elite powerlifter competing at a very high level, did very, very well. My business has done way better, like — not an elite athlete, not very low body fat percentage, like significantly higher body fat, significantly less strength — my business has massively improved and I very much– and I can see it in my comments and DMs people being like, “you’re just more relatable.” Like, you just seem more realistic and real versus the man or woman who is shredded a bit and doesn’t have realistic standards, is actually a little bit overbearing, like, it doesn’t seem real.
And there will be people who prefer that type of a coach. There will also be people who prefer the not as strong, not as fit, more realistic person who’s there to help you get better.
So, I think– and that’s another major benefit of going to a gym, whether it’s a box gym or a privately owned facility where they just give you clients to work with because then you’re not really necessarily competing for anything. It’s like they give them to you and once they have the opportunity to get to know you and they see how much you care; they see how kind you are; they see how healthy you are, they see how knowledgeable you are. That goes– it’s sort of like when you’re dating someone, right? It’s like when you first see someone for the first time you have that initial attraction or not attraction, but then sometimes you’ll get to know someone that you might not have been physically attracted to and you see how smart they are, you see how like intelligent and kind and well spoken, and all of a sudden you’re like, “you know what? That person’s sort of hot,” right? It’s sort of the same way with training and coaching where it’s like, “I never would have imagined that person as a coach,” but all of a sudden you hear them speak, you see them coach, you see how well they cue, you see how much they care about you, and all of a sudden it’s like, “that’s my coach forever because I know they have my best interests at heart.”
And to sort of answer your question, which goes back to like, “well, how do I get comfortable?” It’s like, you might never get to that point in which you’re fully comfortable with yourself. I think that’s actually a really important thing to understand. This is one of the most common questions that coaches ask us all the time, is like, “I’m super insecure in my body. I don’t feel like I belong in this space. I see other people who are way more lean, way more strong, like what am I doing?” And the reality is, I don’t think there’s anybody who doesn’t have some form of insecurity with their body.
It doesn’t matter if they’re coach, doesn’t matter if they’re not a coach. I think every single one of us have our own insecurities and it’s actually unrealistic to think that you’re going to ever be fully comfortable with it. I think it’s really important to remember. It’s like if I told you don’t think of a white elephant, the first thing you think about is a white elephant. Always.
If you think in your mind that you’re supposed to feel comfortable and confident in your body, always, then when you don’t, you’re inherently going to think that something’s wrong with you, “well, why don’t I?” And it’s going to play back more and more and more. I think the more you get comfortable knowing that it’s actually okay to not be fully confident with yourself, then you can, number one, use that as part of your discussion so other people understand it and you become more relatable. And number two, it doesn’t have any power over you. Because you know it’s normal and it’s common, and that’s as humans sort of what we go through.
Rachel: [00:20:42] Where would you say the line can be drawn between being aspirational and relatable? Because I feel like when you’re a trainer, there is an aspect of looking the part sometimes and being an aspiration for others and being motivational. Whether it’s how much you can squat to do you have a six pack or not. But then you’re saying it’s also– it’s okay to not always feel that comfortable because that does make you relatable. But where would you say that balance lies? Or do you say that there is even a balance?
Mike: [00:21:27] I think– I don’t know if there’s a right or wrong answer and I think it is going to be different from person to person, but I think healthy is a pretty good balance between those two. If a coach– and again, we judge coaches off of different things, but based on looks, if a coach looks unhealthy, I think that, in a potential client’s mind, even if they’re incredibly well-spoken, incredibly articulate, intelligent, know what they’re talking about, might turn one off to hiring them as a coach.
Whereas you don’t need to be– you don’t need to have abs as a guy or girl, you don’t need to be shredded, but looking like you work out and looking like you at least embody the principles that you discuss.
I also think it’s important to make the distinction between influencers and coaches in the Instagram sphere, meaning the people in fitness on average who have the most followers and get the most likes, on average, seem to be super shredded, edited photos, over the top, get a lot of engagement or at least a lot of attention on their photos. Those aren’t the people who get the most clients. So the people who are interacting with that type of content might like the eye candy of it, might like what it does for them, but a coach with way fewer followers, way less likes on their photos, but who is putting out content that’s actually helpful, and again, still walking that balance, like, still reasonably in shape, is going to be more successful as a coach.
Rachel: [00:23:10] I think going off of that, too, one of the things I wanted to ask you guys is about content and social media.
I don’t have a fit account. I’ve been putting it off. I’ve been putting it off. But here’s the thing, ’cause I’m also like, “who is going to care about what I have to say in such a saturated market?” I know that sounds very negative, but I’m still trying to figure out like, what angle do I want to take?
And I’m also– I mean, men deal with this too, but for, you know, fit models on Instagram and, um, those fitness accounts, like they’re showing titties and ass, like they’re all out; vulva full-on. And I don’t really wanna, I don’t want to do that. And then also I get stressed out because I don’t have, you know, fancy equipment and somebody like shoot my workouts and I’ve tried doing it on my own and then just like, people come and walk in through the frame, and then you got to get like so many reps in to try to figure out, “okay, did this angle look good?”
Jordan: [00:24:21] Yeah. Is there enough labia in here?
Rachel: [00:24:24] Yeah, exactly. And by the end of it, you’ve done like, you know, 50 more reps of an exercise you probably already did in that work out and you’re burnt out and then you’ve got to go and edit. It’s a whole thing. And I know it sounds like a lot of excuses right now that I’m giving, but it gets time consuming too, and–
Jordan: [00:24:45] Content is time-consuming.
Rachel: [00:24:46] Yes, if that’s your full-time job and you’re making money from it. I feel like I would be able to justify it more if I was making money off of it.
But when you first start, like you have to put in that work for free, obviously, which I’m down to do, but then it’s also like, who is going to follow me? Who cares? Like, there’s thousands of other accounts on Instagram alone where you could probably get the same information somewhere else. So, it’s building that brand to that I’m kind of feeling a little overwhelmed with as well.
Jordan: [00:25:21] So if you– I want you to boil your question down to one sentence, like one sentence question. What is the question that you want answered?
Rachel: [00:25:30] Building content for your own brand that people are going to want to care about.
Jordan: [00:25:36] Got it. So, I’m going to reframe it and tell you if I’m right, why would people care about your content?
Is that like really what you’re concerned about?
Rachel: [00:25:42] Yeah.
Jordan: [00:25:43] At the beginning they won’t because they won’t see it, they won’t find it, it’s going to be very few people. But actually, and here’s one of the great parts about starting with an in-person business, is the people that you’re coaching in person will be, because you’re invested in them, they enjoy you, they know what you’re saying is accurate.
And one of the things I’ll always say is: when you’re working with in-person clients, you could either find someone else on social media who said what you wanted to say and give them their information. Or you could make it yourself in your own words, and they’ll trust you, and then there’ll be like– they’ll go on their social media, on their story, on their feed, “look what my coach said. This is an article from my coach.”
Let’s say you tell your in-person client, “Hey, you don’t need to eat six meals a day to stoke your metabolic fire.” Then they’re like, “really? I didn’t know that.”
You’re like, “really? You didn’t know that because 500,000 people have written that on Instagram and last week,” but they didn’t know that because they’re not interested in fitness like you are. They don’t see that stuff. So, then you make a post on it and they share that on their story and then you don’t know who’s following them and who sees that. That’s how I think– the best grassroots way to build a social media following is starting with your in-person people, starting with your friends, your family, your in-person clients. No one will care more about you than the people you know in person. That’s a fact. I guarantee you now you will care more about Mike and I just because you had the opportunity to meet us in person and speak with you than you did before this happened.
You might’ve seen our content, you might have listened to our podcast– for example, we were talking before about how my podcast, it used to have like really awful sound quality and you still listen to it. It didn’t matter if the sound quality was pretty shitty, you still listened to it ’cause you knew the content was good.
So, it doesn’t matter if you’re making content where someone walks right in front of the camera or if you’re not that good, because if it’s good content and it’s helpful and you care about the people and they care about you, they’re going to watch it.
It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, and you might suck on camera at the beginning, you might suck at writing, you might suck at making content because, just like fitness is a skill, so it was making content. So, it takes time, but I guarantee you there’s no better place to start then with your in-person clients and just sharing the information.
Let’s say– I guarantee you, if you have an in person coaching client and they ask you a question and they say like, “can I burn fat just like right here? Just like right here, just in this one spot.” And you make content, you’re like, “you know what? That’s a great question, I’m gonna make a post about that for you.” Then you make a post about them and you feature them in that content and you say, “one of my favorite clients asked me this and I thought, what a great question because it’s a super common misunderstanding and this we don’t want to talk about.” I guarantee you that person is unbelievably happy and unbelievably grateful that you took the time to make that entire piece of content just because they asked; you share it with them, they share with their friends and family. I guarantee it.
Mike: [00:28:26] Yeah. The people– your in-person clients are people who are already invested in you and care about you. The reason why, like a random person online who might come across your content will care about you, who only has, you know, 86 followers or 14 followers or wherever you are when you start out compared to a big fitness account, assuming you guys are putting out the same information. Say you guys are putting out the exact same thing and you’re wondering why they would care about you as opposed to that person? Because you have the ability to what’s called scale the unscalable. Meaning when someone has 1.7 million followers, they can’t reply to every single DM and give in detail one-on-one free advice.
They can’t reply to every single comment and give free advice right there. They can’t go check out other people’s pages, they can’t hop on a call for free and just give them 15 minutes of their time. And when people come to realize that you actually care about helping them, whether they’re paying you or not, they’re going to be lifetime followers of yours.
And even though that’s “free,” I guarantee in the future, when you have a challenge or when you sell a product or you have a special workout or you want to release merch, or you do online coaching, or if they’re in your city and you have a group class or whatever it is, they will pay for whatever you’re putting out because you cared about them in the beginning and no one does that.
Like, very few people in today’s day and age do the unscalable things. Partly because at a certain point you just can’t, you run out of hours in the day. So that’s where the people on the come up actually have an advantage over people who are established. But yeah, whether they’re in-person clients or they’re people you meet through the process when you’re putting out consistent content that is helpful for them and they realize that you actually care about them. That’s going to generate a pretty crazy response.
Rachel: [00:30:32] Would you say building that social following and having, you know, fitness accounts is crucial in today’s day and age? Because I’m somebody that– I barely post my own personal things, and I kind of go through spurts where, you know, like I was saying, I tend to be a little bit more introverted.
So, there are times where I do want to share and then there are times where I just want to retreat and I don’t really want to interact. I feel like it would be different from a business perspective because it takes that personal side out of it, but I mean, do you feel like you have to have–
Jordan: [00:31:17] I would say it depends on what you want to do, right? So, you could– actually, someone literally just left a review on the podcast a couple of days ago who was like, “loved the podcast. I have no interest in doing online stuff, so I’m actually not going to do social media. I just want to be the best person in my town, so I’m just gonna follow what you’re instructing and doing to help people in person,” in which case no. If their goal is solely in-person business, then– and I think that person said they were in their 50s or something, which was like, it’s incredible. That person like only wants to do in person and that’s amazing.
If you only want to do in person coaching, it’s not crucial. That being said, I think it could help. I think more awareness of what you’re doing and more people who support you only helps you and it only helps you help more people, but it’s not crucial.
I think sometimes that thought of it being crucial creates more burnout. It makes you, “oh I have to do this, I have to do that,” and if they feel like they have to– sort of like, if someone feels like they have to count calories in order to lose fat, then it will create a lot of resistance for them to count calories, which is one of the reasons why with my clients, I’d be like, “you don’t have to count calories.” And they’ll be like, “wait, I thought I had to be in a calorie deficit.” It’s like, “yeah, you have to be in a calorie deficit to lose fat, but you don’t have to count your calories in order to be in a calorie deficit.” And a lot of times just knowing that will be enough for them to be like, “oh, I’ll track a little bit.” And that little bit of tracking will get them to make more progress than if they had been doing nothing at all.
So, you don’t need to be posting on Instagram three times a day every day for four years straight, but I guarantee you posting on Instagram three to four times a week for two years straight will be way better than posting nothing at all.
Mike: [00:33:08] Yeah. I don’t even know how much I have to add to that other than social media is just a place, and the internet in general is a place for you to have more attention so that you can help people with fitness. And that attention can be generated in person. I’m kinda trying to think of ways on my feet here, I’m also introverted, and so the ideas that I’m coming up with, like networking actually sound worse to me than posting because I have a lot of resistance to posting on various platforms for various reasons, but it’s actually easier, it’s actually significantly easier for me to do that than to like say, go to some kind of networking event and shake hands and schmooze for two and a half hours.
So, it’s not necessary, but it depends on what you’re aspiring towards.
Rachel: [00:34:01] Yeah. I mean, I get all of these ideas in my head and I’m way more of a thinker than a doer, which, you know, shoots me in the foot. Because, like, at the end of the day, it’s all about execution, but that’s the biggest thing I struggle with.
Jordan: [00:34:15] I think just picking one, just pick one thing and do it. Like, you can have all of the most amazing ideas in the world, but like you just said, if you’re not doing any of them, then what the fuck is the point? Right? It’s like, I remember Mike used to wear a shirt that said, “ideas are shit.” You remember that?
Mike: [00:34:31] Yeah, yeah.
Jordan: [00:34:33] For me, a lot of people will be like, “which platform should I be on? How many times a day should I post?” If you look at what I’ve done, I’ve always focused on one platform at a time. First it was my website for several years. Then from there it was more email for several years. Then from there it was Instagram for several years. Then from there it was YouTube for the last over a year. And now it’s like more my podcast.
I do one thing at a time, but if you look at that, now it’s almost nine years now. It’s like eight and a half years now that I’ve done it, focusing on one thing at a time, really giving it my all for a year, two years, three years straight, and then no one wants to hear that, but this is also why I call it like my five-year plan. It’s like, with fitness it’ll take you five years to really start to really achieve your goals. Same thing with business. It’s going to take you five years and within those five years, if you focus on one thing for a year and a half at a time, then you’ll have three or so things that do really, really well.
And most people never have anything that does very, very well because they try and do it all and then do nothing. Whereas if you do one thing really hard for a year and a half, two years straight, you’re going to do amazingly well. ‘Cause I think that’s one of the most overlooked parts of having any platform.
When you have people on one platform. Just one. You can send them anywhere you want. You can say, “Hey, go look at my YouTube. Go look at my Instagram, go look at my Twitter. Go sign up for my emails.” Whatever it is. You can give them amazing content wherever, and that makes building other platforms relatively easy.
But start with one. And if you go as hard as– like, it doesn’t matter how many– there’s a ton of people on Instagram, but there aren’t a ton of people doing it well on Instagram. Very, very few do it very, very well. And if you establish yourself there as someone who does it very, very well, you’ll win in a year, two years, three years, but not in the next week.
Mike: [00:36:18] Do you, Rachel, have a platform that you like at least slightly more than others?
Rachel: [00:36:26] I’ve recently fallen in love with TikTok.
Jordan: [00:36:30] Consuming content?
Rachel: [00:36:31] All of it. All of it.
Jordan: [00:36:32] Yeah, you just sit there for hours?
Rachel: [00:36:34] I love it. I’ve posted some. I think I could do more with posting on there. Posting on there seems less stressful than Instagram where I feel like everything has to be perfect, so I would actually like to use that platform. It’s way easier.
You have fallen off on your TikTok content.
Jordan: [00:36:54] I removed it from my phone.
Rachel: [00:36:56] Really? Why?
Jordan: [00:36:56] Yeah, because I would waste so much time-consuming other people’s content. I hate it.
Rachel: [00:37:00] You don’t feel that way on Instagram or any other platform?
Jordan: [00:37:03] No. I spend way more time on Instagram answering DMs, making my own content, putting up stories, doing Q&A’s. My time on Instagram is much more actually helpful to other people. My time on TikTok is helpful to nobody, so I removed it from– and that’s why I’m focusing way more on my podcast this year, this podcast, my other, personal podcast, my YouTube channel, Instagram, that’s what I’m focusing on– my text platform. But like, if I go on TikTok, I will waste hours. So, I removed it.
Rachel: [00:37:32] Instagram drains me mentally. I feel exhausted.
Jordan: [00:37:36] ‘Cause you’re comparing yourself to other people?
Rachel: [00:37:39] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Mike: [00:37:42] I’ve heard that a million times, so you’re definitely not alone.
Jordan: [00:37:45] I think the worst piece of advice–
Rachel: [00:37:47] Then there’s also just, do I want to post this? Are people gonna judge me for it? Whether it’s stupid or not, I feel like I can’t fully be myself on there.
Jordan: [00:37:58] Well, but that’s a personal thing. Not like a legitimate, like–
Rachel: [00:38:02] It’s not legitimate. All right, cool.
Jordan: [00:38:03] It’s a legitimate concern ’cause whatever you want to feel you can feel, but that will happen on any and every platform. It will eventually happen on TikTok, it will happen everywhere. So, I think the solution is not to go to a platform where you feel like it’s harder to be discovered or people won’t judge you because eventually, they will. The solution is to do it anyway, right?
It’s like the solution is recognize what you’re feeling and push through it, because if you go from platform to platform avoiding that you’ll never actually hit on a platform.
Because then– let’s say you go viral on TikTok tomorrow. All of a sudden, you’re going to have a lot of people who could judge you for whatever content you put out. So then is the solution to go somewhere else because– it’s like that’s part of the curse of having people look at your stuff like they can judge you.
Rachel: [00:38:55] Well, I think it’s more so my following even on Instagram–
Mike: [00:38:58] Isn’t fitness-related.
Rachel: [00:39:00] Exactly. So, it’s like, who’s gonna care about this? And so, I mean, that is partly why I should go ahead and just start a fitness account–
Jordan: [00:39:08] Do you ever have friends and family ask you about fitness stuff?
Rachel: [00:39:11] Yeah, all the time.
Jordan: [00:39:12] Everybody cares about fitness, even if they don’t talk to you about it. And if they don’t care about it, they’ll unfollow you.
Did you ever hear the story of my– I know Mike knows the story of my family friend who, uh– I’ll tell you the story.
When I first started posting content in 2011 on Facebook and LinkedIn, I had a really close family friend, my brother’s best friend, his name is Aaron and Aaron’s father, Mr. Schneider. Seriously. I was posting content daily, multiple times a day. And I’ll never forget, he reached out to me. He was like, “Jordan, stop posting on LinkedIn. It’s clogging up my feed.” And I replied to him, I was like, “Mr. Schneider, if you don’t like my content, you can unfollow me.” And my mom got super mad at me. She was like, “you should not be speaking to an adult like that, dah, dah, dah.” And I was like, “I don’t care.” And thank God I’m blessed with that mindset where I was like, I didn’t care.
‘Cause if I was– and I ran into him a couple of years ago at, like, Rosh Hashanah or something where I was like– he was like, “Jordan, you’re doing great. That’s amazing.” I was like, “Mark, do you realize what would’ve happened if I took your advice or if I was more intimidated about what you said?” And he felt awful about it. He felt super bad.
I think a lot of people, they don’t really know what their impact might be and I think they’re saying things out of heat of the moment, maybe they had a bad day, whatever it is, but there will be people who judge you and telling you not to care about it is a very stupid piece of advice because we all care about that stuff.
I think the better piece of advice is: don’t let the fear of being judged prevent you from doing what you know is right. I think it’s really important to understand. If you know what you’re doing, can and will eventually help people, even if it’s only one person, even if that one person doesn’t like your content, even if that person doesn’t tell you. If someone sees that and gets better because of it, it’s worth it regardless of who may judge you for it.
Mike: [00:41:06] Yeah. I think that’s 100% right. I still think that because when starting out, you can’t dominate eight platforms at the same time, I still think that in your gut, if you have excitement or ambition or your intuition is pulling you toward a specific platform and you have interest in it, I think starting there makes the most sense.
I think there’s the least friction and I think there” I mean, I know there have been many very brilliant individuals who are pro TikTok and think that you can pop there, so I don’t think that’s a bad idea. That being said, I completely agree with the thesis of it: wherever you go, you’re still gonna run into those same feelings.
Jordan: [00:41:53] I fully support you going on and TikTok a hundred percent. I hope you go viral and TikTok and I hope you crush it and I hope all of your content helps millions of people. I just want you to be aware of, it’s okay for people to judge you and you can’t let that prevent you from doing what you know is right.
Mike: [00:42:11] The Mr. Schneider’s of the world will not hold us down.
Jordan: [00:42:15] I’d just like to say, I love you, Mark. He’s not gonna listen to this, he doesn’t care. He does very well for himself, he’s a very successful. But yeah, I mean, it’s actually very interesting because I think that he actually does love me and have it in my best interest at heart.
But, you know, it’s one of those– you know, like, when you’re a kid and someone will say something to you in middle school that you’ll remember for the rest of your life, and they don’t ever think about it, like, they won’t even remember it? And it’s just like, sometimes people will say something that they don’t even consider as bad, they’ll never remember it. They had no ill intent, but it will stick with you in your heart forever. It’s like a dagger that’s always just going to be there and it’s like, the crazy part is we’ve all done that to someone else. Like, we’ve all done it to someone else and like if they brought it up to us, we’d feel awful.
I think it’s important to remember it’s like, that will always happen to us and we’ll always do it to other people, no matter how hard we try not to. And that’s why it’s important not to say, don’t care what other people think, rather don’t let what other people think prevent you from doing what you know is right.
Rachel: [00:43:18] All right. All right. I feel it, I feel it.
Another thing I wanted to ask you was, have you, throughout your career as trainers, ever come across somebody where you just feel like you can’t help them?
Jordan: [00:43:39] Yes.
Rachel: [00:43:40] So what do you, what do you do? You just say, “I’m sorry, I can’t help you. Here’s this other person,” or like, can you tell me a little bit more about your experiences with that?
Mike: [00:43:53] Absolutely. So, there’s kind of two groups here and the first one is a little more obvious, and it’s simply, if someone has a problem that I don’t have the experience and knowledge to help them with that I can refer to, like refer them out to someone else. Certain types of pain are an example of that, certain injuries are an example of that.
Jordan: [00:44:21] Disordered eating.
Mike: [00:44:22] Disordered eating. Yeah, certain, like mental illness is an example of that. And that’s a little more straight forward because I feel pretty comfortable just saying to them, “I’m very sorry, I don’t have an experience in this and I’d be doing you a disservice by trying to help you, but here are the types of individuals you might want to seek out,” or specific individuals if I know someone who can help them.
The more difficult group and the group that I really felt a lot of guilt about earlier in my career were the individuals who I felt like I should be able to help, but who simply were not executing, or there was some block in my coaching versus they’re doing and no matter what I tried or how I tried to initiate the conversation or how I tried to frame the problem or how I tried to motivate or push or pull or whatever I tried to do to help them, they simply weren’t making progress. And eventually, I don’t remember if I got there via experience alone or if someone helped me get there, but I came to the realization that there’s a percentage of people who you can do everything in your power to help, and you can’t. And that’s okay. And there are 97% of people who you can help, and I’m going to focus my effort there.
But the old expression that you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink rings true in this situation.
Jordan: [00:45:55] I completely agree with all of that and I would add one other grouping of people onto that, which is the people who drain the life out of you. Even if they’re doing everything right, even if they’re making great progress, even if they’re following everything you’re doing, but just interacting with that person makes your day awful.
And that doesn’t mean that they’re a bad person, just means like– here’s a good example: so, for me, I’m very, like, I don’t use spreadsheets, I’m not very organized, I’m much more like, “let’s go with the flow” type of person. I remember I had one client when I was in person in like 2010-2011, everything had to be perfectly executed on a spreadsheet with understanding exactly what percentage they were going to be lifting in every single set, every single rep, and they’re amazing, and I actually just handed them off to a friend of mine who’s a great coach, but I was like, “I’m super sorry, I just can’t do this,” just because literally interacting with that one person for an hour felt like seven hours and it really ruined the rest of my day coaching. And also looking forward to that day sort of just drained me. I didn’t want to do it and I couldn’t give them my best coaching.
Another time I had a client, I’ll never forget this one. This was, I think in 2011 where I had a client who, no matter what, chronic smoker, like smoked before coaching, after coaching, sometimes in the middle of coaching would go get a cigarette and I was like super upset about it, but everything I did– this person was like very overweight, not really in exercise, but every single thing I did, they were like–. They were like– they had a hard Boston Accent, like “this is wrong. This makes no fucking sense. This is stupid.” He’s actually a doctor, like a cardiac doctor and smoking all that stuff. And everything was like, “this doesn’t make fucking sense. I don’t like this. This doesn’t work. Dah, dah, dah.” And I was at the end of it, I was like, “Hey, listen, I just really don’t think this is working out. I think that it would be better if you found a different coach.” He got so mad and he went to the owner of the gym and he was like, “I only want to work with Jordan.”
And I was like. I literally just fired this client because everything I did for months wasn’t right, wasn’t working. He was smoking during the session, but he refused and he only wanted to work with me, which I thought was very odd. But that’s just one example of another client that, like, if they’re draining you and they’re not allowing you to be your best coach for your other clients, then you have to really figure out, “okay, what’s my best bet here?”
Other options are: I’ve had clients who have serious disordered eating habits. Who like– and I’ll, especially with online stuff, I would make a list of things that I couldn’t work with, just ethically and morally. So, I was like, if you had a thyroid issue but you were not medicated, I will not work with you.
If you’re medicated and your levels are good and you’re getting checked by a doctor, absolutely. But not if you refuse to be medicated. If you had any serious injuries or chronic injuries, I wouldn’t work with you online. If you had any disordered eating habits, like, current disordered eating habits, I wouldn’t work with you.
But sometimes there are people who have disordered eating habits who, they would think they were all good or like they just would say, “you know what, I’m fine. I can do it.” And there were times when I would be working with someone online and just over time, I could see like these habits coming out and I had to say–, I would never do it like via email, I’d always like make a voice memo or call them. I’d be like, “hey, listen, like, I love you, I’m here for you, I support you. It would be morally and ethically wrong of me to continue working with you when I think there are other things that need to be improved first.”
And I would refer out, I’d tell them who to go to, I would have a discussion with them, but like Mike was saying, there will be people that you can’t help and there’ll be people that it’s inappropriate for you to try and help. And I think as long as you frame it and know that like, it’s physically– it’s impossible for you to help everybody, which is actually one of the major reasons why I’m such a huge proponent of people studying behavior change and psychology. If you’ve never read of it or heard about it, transtheoretical model of behavior change is super important for people to know, because there will be some people who will be stuck in a phase where they’re not ready, willing, or able to change.
And if you’re trying– like that guy who just wasn’t willing to stop smoking, he just wasn’t going to until something happened, or maybe there was another coach who’d be able to frame it in a different way. But for me in that moment, it wasn’t the right fit. So I think the more that you try and help everybody, the more that you like think you have to, the more you’re going to feel guilty when that happens that you can’t, I think Mike framed it really well in that knowing you will not be able to have everyone as super important.
And just sort of going back to a couple of topics where I think you were talking about why would people care what you have to say? Something that Mike was talking about in terms of scaling the unscalable; I bet, number one, when I messaged you and I was like, “thanks for following,” just out of nowhere you were a little bit surprised. Then when you responded, either later that day or a couple days later and you asked a question and I voice memo-d you saying, “look, let’s get on a podcast.” I’m assuming you were a little bit surprised, because even today you were like, it’s pretty surreal to be meeting you in person. That’s scaling the unscalable. That’s doing stuff that people don’t expect. That’s doing stuff that like– doesn’t matter if you have zero followers or a million followers, going out of your way to give someone your time and your energy and your help because you care. People will never forget that feeling and like that, as long as you’re doing that, people will always care what you have to say.
Mike: [00:51:34] Let’s get you a job at a gym.
Rachel: [00:51:37] Yeah, hook it up.
Yeah, I mean, I’m more so interested in just trying to learn again as much as I can. And the training style that I really enjoy is more like correctional training, ’cause I actually got into personal training, um, a few reasons that led me into it, but one of them being, I dealt with a really bad knee injury and through physical therapy realized like I do really love this, and just getting my body stronger so I could avoid surgery. And then just wanting to help people in that same way. So, I’ve always, I think, gone more towards the correctional side. But I also know, I don’t know as much as I could, and so I’m really trying to explore that route.
And another thing with me and getting into training, like I– my own workouts and the way I train myself, I feel like is much different than what a lot of people even see, like, on Instagram, those swipe workouts and they’re doing like crazy HIIT workouts with the kettlebells and the bands and like, they’re moving all over the place and where my style is more– it’s simple.
Like, every workout I’m either doing a push, a pull and revolving it around like a squat or deadlift, a press, it’s very basic. And so, I feel like even with clients these days, like, and with the Instagram world, they’re looking for these crazy workouts. And if you’re not putting them through these Instagram worthy workouts, it’s like, what are you–
Jordan: [00:53:20] Is that something that you know and have experienced or is that a thing that you’re just assuming?
Rachel: [00:53:26] A little bit of both because I have also trained– I’ve had trainers and I’ve been in situations where people are like, “well, I saw this on Instagram, I saw this workout to hit this or hit this muscle group or this muscle group, but what you have me doing, I feel like it’s not complex enough or I should be doing more.”
Um, when a lot of times it’s taking a step back, I think even just being more simple with your workouts get you even farther.
Mike: [00:53:59] I feel like the three of us are very on the same page programming-wise based on that little bit that you just said. I have, through the course of coaching many individuals, I’ve also experienced that feedback that you’ve gotten, like, “I want to do more. I want more volume. I saw this person do this crazy workout; can we incorporate this?”
It’s probably 1 out of 80 or 1 out of 100 clients will voice those suggestions, and I think one of the main reasons that it’s such a low number is because the people who actually sign up for coaching with you want to work with you.
And there’s an old saying in the fitness industry, “people buy coaches not coaching,” because they respect you and they trust you and what you designed for them. Most clients are going to do that and they’re going to want to do that, and they’re going to be excited to do that because you made it for them.
Jordan: [00:55:03] And if your Instagram content is crazy, swipe workouts with HIIT and rubber bands and doing stuff on your head and twirls and breakdancing, then that’s what people would expect when they sign up with you. But if you’re putting out content that’s more like, “Hey, this exercise is great for knee stability, we’ll also like improving your glute activation,” and showing people how to do that, then that’s what they’ll sign up with you for based on the content you put out.
They might ask a question like, “Hey, so I saw so-and-so do this crazy workout where they on a skateboard and they were doing like shake weight presses overhead with one leg,” and you’d be like, “that’s not what I do. Here’s why. If you’d like to work with them, you’re welcome to, but this is why.” And they’ll usually be like, “Oh, cool. Yeah, I was just wondering.” And you answer their question just very kindly and you explain why you don’t do that type of thing.
Sometimes that client might leave and go to someone else and 8 out of 10 times, they’ll come back and be like, “yep, never mind. I really like your programming better.” But like, I think it’s also important to be okay with clients leaving you to go try someone else’s stuff, because if you’re good, they’ll come back to you and they’ll see that.
So, for me one of my favorite sayings is, “don’t attribute malice to what is really ignorance” type of a thing. So, it’s like, a lot of times we’ll be a coach and we’ll be like really high and mighty on what our method is and “well, this is right and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, and everyone else is stupid.”
And when a client said, “well, why am I doing this?” Oftentimes our first response is like, “why would you ask that. Why don’t you trust me?” When in reality they’re just– all they’re doing is asking to get a better understanding of why someone else might do that. Is it beneficial or not? For me, I’ve always found a better response with, “you’re more than welcome to try it if you would like, I will not program it for you. If you want to work with that coach, by all means go for it. But with me, that’s not what we do and here’s why”.
I always get a much better response to that than being like, “that stuff is stupid. Don’t ever try it.” And the type of content you put out will be what people reach out to you for. So, I mean, you know, JoeTherapy? He’s a really good example of someone who puts out content almost solely based around mobility and posture and stability.
That’s it. And so, he has an entire membership just based around teaching people that. Does very, very well. There will always be people who want crazy HIIT-focused stuff, and there’ll always be people who don’t like that. Same with there’ll always be people who want the shredded coach who’s super jacked or whatever, and there’ll be people who prefer someone who’s not like that.
There’ll be people– it’s like the same with attraction, some people like tall, some people like short, some people like bald, some people like blondes, whatever it is. But I think the reality is you’ll really start to like people that you get to know. You’ll really start to like people that you know care about you, that are intelligent, that are open minded.
Regardless of what it looks like on the outside, the more you get to know that person and know that they care about you, that’s who you’re going to trust. And here you’re going to back.
Mike: [00:57:53] You’re killing the analogies today, Jordan.
Jordan: [00:57:59] But actually, yeah, anyone who wants to know more about analogy-making read the book Made To Stick. Really good way to make better analogies, make concepts stickier.
Does that help you get an idea of where you think you should begin?
Rachel: [00:58:14] Yeah, definitely.
Jordan: [00:58:15] So where do you think you’re going to start?
Rachel: [00:58:19] Just, uh, like leaving here?
Jordan: [00:58:21] Yeah. So, today’s Sunday–
Rachel: [00:58:23] Well, I know I need to get on a little fit page, I’m need to create that, get like two followers. But yeah, I mean, I need to reach out to places around here and figure out are there studios that are reputable that I would want to work at?
I mean, that’s kind of the overwhelming part of just, again, not knowing there are so many options and it can be overwhelming of not really knowing where to start out here.
Jordan: [00:58:54] The cool part is, number one is Mike and I both know people who own gyms in the area. We’re more than happy to help you find a great gym.
That being said, you could go to any gym, Gold’s Gym, New York Sports Club, Crunch Fitness, start working there and develop a great reputation as an incredible trainer. One of my good friends, Ben Bruno, he started working at a place called Boyle Strength, Mike Boyle, Strength and Conditioning in Boston.
Now Ben lives on his own in LA coaching, Justin Timberlake, Jessica Biel, like all these really high-level people, famous people. Which I think a lot of people look at as like the ideal, “I want to coach famous people or famous athletes,” which in reality it’s, I think there’s a lot of– I’ve just preferred coaching general population people.
But the point to say is you never know what’s going to come from coaching at any one facility; who you’re going to meet, you just never know. I think getting overwhelmed by there being so many different options of gyms is actually a justification for not going anywhere. Just go somewhere. Does not matter where. It doesn’t matter if you literally make a sign, go in central park and say free HIIT or like free abs and glute class, whatever it is.
Like, I don’t think that would be as smart, especially in the winter, but go to a gym, any gym. And again, if you want, Mike and I are more than happy to introduce you to people in New York City that have gyms. But go to New York Sports Club, go to Crunch Fitness, go to LA Fitness, whatever, and just fucking start coaching.
Mike: [01:00:18] Or go to studio gyms or boutique gyms that are more corrective-focused if that’s something you’re interested in. But taking action towards that next step and even just reaching out, offering to intern.
Rachel: [01:00:33] Do you think– I mean, like, really though, if I were to just walk into a gym and be like, “hey, let me, uh, intern for you guys for free,” that they wouldn’t like take advantage of that?
Mike: [01:00:43] I would imagine many would take advantage of that.
Jordan: [01:00:47] Someone literally commented on our podcast yesterday or the other day– because that was what we recommended in our first episode, we said go get an internship, and this guy was like, “Hey, I didn’t think– like, I’ve been wanting it intern, but like I always thought no one would do it. I called the first gym that I wanted to intern at and they already accepted me.” It’s like, you won’t know if you don’t ask. Like, if I had thought about Westside Barbell and when I was 20-21 years old, like, there’s no way they would let this like 20-21-year-old kid just come in and train there and what do I know?
They let me do it. Same thing with Eric Cressey from Cressey Performance. Like, I emailed them, “come on in,” like, that was it.
Just ask. And you might have to ask 50 different gyms, but you’ll probably get at least one saying yeah.
Mike: [01:01:29] Not to mention you have more experience than the average person walking into these gyms looking for an internship or a job, which puts you a leg up already.
And your attitude, your interest in it, your willingness to work for free, you’re positioned really well.
Rachel: [01:01:45] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I’m definitely going to do that this week.
Jordan: [01:01:51] Good, ‘ cause we’re going to be checking.
Rachel: [01:01:53] All right. Keep me accountable, for sure. But another thing is like: all right, I’m 32, I can’t just be interning. Like, I need to make money at some point.
Again, we talked about how I have some money saved up, but it’s like, I can’t do that for, you know, six months or something.
Mike: [01:02:14] Most reasonable individuals and most gym owners aren’t going to keep you as an unpaid intern forever. And if you do well in the internship– like, I know many gym owners in New York City, gyms are starving for good coaches.
And so if you go and you do well and you bring your best self to the internship, and when you’re getting to a point– or even semi early on, like maybe there’s a set amount of time that you can intern and then you let that person know, like, “I would love to work here full time. I love the culture. I love the team. I love the clients.” If you did well in your internship, which it sounds like you would, you’re going to get a job on the back end of that.
Jordan: [01:02:56] It’s so funny ’cause I know right now if you walked into a gym in New York and said, “I want an internship,” I think most people would be surprised and be like, “I mean I would have hired you, like, I would gladly pay you.” Like, I guarantee that’s what they would say. In a place that might not be as densely populated as New York, might have gyms further– like, further in-between, maybe you’re going to a private facility that’s more higher level, best way in is internship. And I know a hundred percent the best way to get a paying job at any gym is to first work there for free.
Build a relationship with them. Show them that you’re going to work hard. That’s the best way to get a paying job at that gym a month later, two months later, three months later. Absolutely no question about it.
Rachel: [01:03:38] All right, well, I’m definitely gonna do that this week. And the next week. Until I land something.
Jordan: [01:03:43] We also have a surprise for you, by the way.
Mike: [01:03:45] Yes, we do.
Jordan: [01:03:46] What we’re going to do is we’re going to give you a free month in our Online Fitness Business Mentorship so that you can come in and you can see– we have tons of courses, we literally just spent the last 12 months making one course a month.
Both how to make content online, how to actually program design, how to do nutrition programming, client psychology and motivation, so we’re giving you a free month. And in that free month you get all those courses and all that, but as our way of basically showing gratitude for taking the initiative to reach out and ask, coming over here and having the podcast with us, being open and willing enough to speak with us about this, we want to reward that type of audacity, that type of strength.
Rachel: [01:04:24] Wow, thank you so much.
Jordan: [01:04:24] Yeah, of course. And this will hopefully give you a bit more motivation to then get out there and fucking– ’cause you never know what’s going to happen from asking, right? This is the exact same type of thing.
Rachel: [01:04:34] Yeah, I mean, I messaged you and then like 10 minutes later you had responded back to me.
I was like, I was not expecting that. You never know.
Jordan: [01:04:42] You never know if you don’t ask. That’s right. And so, you could have asked 50 people and one person responds, so now you get the free month, and now you have a podcast, free month, we’re going to be checking up on you, and this is at the beginning and we’re super excited about it.
Mike: [01:04:56] Welcome to New York.
Rachel: [01:04:57] Hey, thanks. That’s awesome.
Jordan: [01:05:01] You want to end it out?
Mike: [01:05:04] I mean, I just thought this was a great conversation. I thought this was very productive. I hope anyone listening really enjoyed it. I know anyone listening could probably relate to your story a lot, Rachel. And just thank you guys very much for watching.
We would greatly appreciate a review. If you absolutely hated the three of us, give us that one star. Otherwise, if you enjoyed the podcast, we would really appreciate a five-star rating and we’re very excited to see you in episode number four.
Jordan: [01:05:31] Have an amazing week. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon.
Mike: [01:05:33] Happy New Year.