Mike: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to episode seven of the How To Become A Personal Trainer podcast. We’re your hosts Mike Vacanti…
Jordan: [00:00:10] My name is Jordan Syatt. I apologize for the raspy voice, it is–what is it, 12:49 AM–and we just finished what I think is probably the best podcast we’ve done so far.
Mike: [00:00:19] Yeah, I really enjoyed this. We started talking about Kobe Bryant and some takeaways and what we can learn from that tragedy.
Jordan: [00:00:26] And then, the meat of today was talking about your content calendar, whether it’s for social media, for your website. We spoke about what you should be doing for your website in regard to maybe you don’t know what you should name it. Uh, we spoke about our take on the whole, “document, don’t create” thing, and really better ways to create more content, to help more people, and also to improve your ability and knowledge as a coach.
Mike: [00:00:49] I think you’re really going to enjoy this episode. Enjoy.
Hello, Mr. Syatt.
Jordan: [00:01:02] Hello, Mr. Vacanti. How are you?
Mike: [00:01:04] I’m good. How are you bro?
Jordan: [00:01:06] I’m tired.
Mike: [00:01:07] Yeah, it’s late.
Jordan: [00:01:08] I’m tired. What time is it?
Mike: [00:01:10] It’s 11:00 PM
Jordan: [00:01:11] 11:22 PM
Mike: [00:01:12] We don’t record podcasts this late.
Jordan: [00:01:14] Yeah, this is off schedule for us, but, uh, should we tell them why we’re recording late and they’re probably getting the podcast later than usual?
Mike: [00:01:23] It is the mentorship launch.
Jordan: [00:01:26] Mentorship launch. So, we just spent the last, what? Good last 48 hours really.
Mike: [00:01:32] Yeah.
Jordan: [00:01:32] Uh, last 48 hours really getting everything prepared. Got the first course prepared, the first challenge. And, uh. We’re ready to go.
Mike: [00:01:41] Yeah. We’re really excited. We’ll tell you more about that a little later on in the episode, but as I’ve mentioned before, the reason that Jordan was able to twist my arm into starting a podcast was he promised me 15 minutes at the beginning of every episode to jibber-jabber on whatever’s on our mind.
So, Jordan, what’s on your mind?
Jordan: [00:02:01] No, this is you. You’re going to take this away, right?
Mike: [00:02:06] I told Jordan before we started this, I want to talk about Kobe Bryant, and I’m not going to tell you something you already heard. There has been every single media personality talking about this tragedy, but I was impacted profoundly, like I just told you, and I’m not positive why, but I cried–like I was at my parents’ house on Sunday, I heard the news. It came out that his daughter was also in the helicopter and…
Jordan: [00:02:41] Nine other people, right? Was that it?
Mike: [00:02:43] Seven other people, I believe. For whatever reason. I walked up into my, my old room and shut the door and locked it and like burst into tears. And I can’t remember the last time I cried and I cried four times on Sunday alone, like almost uncontrollably as a result of someone who I don’t know who, I’m not even a basketball fan.
I never met him. I never like…I couldn’t figure out why it was having such an effect on me. Um, and I think I, I have an idea, which is the fact that Koby Bryant actually embodied traits that we aspire toward around competition and around work ethic that seem superhuman, that seem impossible, but he actually–obviously you need insane amounts of talent to make it to the levels that he made it, but anyone who followed his journey over the last 20 to 25 years and has heard some of the stories knows that he literally worked more and harder than anyone else to get to that position. And I know I’m not alone in this, but it’s also not a popular concept in culture right now that working very, very hard is a value to aspire toward.
Um, but, going back to childhood, I’ve always been so enamored with the people who might not have been the absolute most talented, but through sheer effort and time and sacrifice got better at whatever they were doing. And it doesn’t have to be sports, it doesn’t have to be–it can literally be anything. It can be in the top of business. It can be, um, my mind always goes to farmers, like there are so many, if you look at third world countries, the number of people who work tirelessly for 14, 16, 18 hours a day, physical, hard, manual labor, that level of effort. And I don’t want to push my values on everyone, but if, if more people moved in that direction, myself, very much included society would be a lot better.
Jordan: [00:05:15] Yeah.
Mike: [00:05:16] And I know I’m getting a little nuanced here, and…
Jordan: [00:05:20] I love it. Keep going.
Mike: [00:05:21] …But people get sad for tragedies in general. So, there are dozens of reasons why many people, including myself, got sad about this. But the fact that we lost someone so suddenly who was so unreal, but he actually did these things. He talked about in an interview, uh, asking how much he worked, or, I don’t remember the question, but it was something along the lines of how he got where he was.
And he talked about a typical day in the off season. And he said, take a guy, typical day in the off season, let’s say he wakes up at eight o’clock in the morning, gets some breakfast, goes to the gym, works out from 10 to 12. You know, shooting, doing a little bit of cardio, doing some stretching, doing some weights.
Comes back from 12 to 2. Relaxes, uh, gets another meal in, goes back to the gym from 2:00 to 4:00 PM, um, goes in and does maybe some work in the team room, uh, does some more shooting, runs some drills, goes home, eats dinner, spends time with his family. Like that’s a very productive off-season day. And then he says, what I do is: I wake up at three o’clock
Jordan: [00:06:41] Haha. Really?
Mike: [00:06:42] And, and I go from four to six–and I know Jordan can deeply relate to this because you did this in college.
Jordan: [00:06:48] Yeah.
Mike: [00:06:50] He says, I wake up at three o’clock, get something in me. Go train from four to six, come back, have a break from 8 to 10 spend time with the family, go back to the gym from 10 to 12. Come back, have another break, get a third session in from 2 to 4.
Jordan: [00:07:04] Wow. That’s insane.
Mike: [00:07:06] Come back, hang out, ice, relax, take a nap, do whatever he has to do, and then I’m going to go get a fourth session in, you know, from 7 to 8:30 or whatever it might be. But he says, when I’m doing literally double what even very, very talented, hardworking individuals are doing, who are my competition, when I’m doing double what they’re doing every single day for five years. They can’t come back from that. The difference that he created in his game relative to their game is something that they won’t be able to overcome for the rest of their careers, and this can be applied to business, this can be applied to–this can be applied to God, this can be applied to volunteering, this can be applied to how you treat other people, this can literally be applied to anything. But I think that I was so affected by this because I know how important those values and those traits are, and I’ve strived my whole life and come up short in a lot of ways at consistently embodying them.
And it really touched me to think about the fact that someone who’s 41 had decades and decades left in, in his career beyond basketball, and his chance at this life is now gone. Whereas in the last few years, I’ve had, I don’t know how many days where I did minimal work, like just enough to get by and to keep things going. And, uh, yeah, it, it hit home for me and was, was a wakeup call in that regard.
Jordan: [00:08:44] That was beautifully said to say the least. Um. I’m not a big sports guy. Right? I don’t follow much sports. Like I obviously knew who he was, which says enough in and of itself that I knew who he was. And I don’t even know the rules of basketball.
Like really, I don’t, I know like twos and threes and free throws. Five foot four Jewish guys really aren’t the pinnacle of basketball performance. Um, but I was deeply affected by it as well, which is. Even more shocking, I think just because I knew his name but didn’t know his work ethic and I just, he’s everywhere growing up.
I even think about when I was in, I think it was, I was in elementary school, maybe middle school. There’s a period of time where if there was a trash bin, like 10-20 feet away, you’d take a crumpled-up piece of paper and go, “Kobe!” And I would say that because everyone else did, it was just like part of being a kid at that point in time, like wherever you were it was like “Kobe!” that’s what you did is what you said.
And, uh, I was writing my speech, I was writing a speech on Sunday and I actually saw someone post a picture of him and I liked it on Instagram. I just, I didn’t read the caption. I liked it. And that was it. Which is very Instagram, right? You just like it, you don’t even consume the content. And, uh. And I was writing and I got a lot of work done on the speech.
I was really excited about it. And then I saw on the news and I like, it just came up and my heart dropped like into my stomach. It was devastating. And I could, I don’t know why. I didn’t know why. Um, and I also felt really guilty about it too.
Mike: [00:10:28] Interesting.
Jordan: [00:10:29] I felt for a number of reasons, not least of which, there were seven, nine, however many other people on there who died. His daughter being one of them, several other young, young women, uh, and each person who died had family members, had kids, parents, husbands, wives, whatever. Um, and as much as I would try to feel equally as awful for each of them, I kept going back to Kobe, which is like. Part of me felt guilty about it, but the other part of me is like, that’s human nature.
It makes sense. Like I saw his name, I knew his name. It’s part of culture and society and everything, but it made me think like, again sort of like you were saying, why is this one individual just so astronomical? And it’s like, it can affect the world. Everything. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. You can’t go anywhere without seeing it.
Mike: [00:11:24] Yeah.
Jordan: [00:11:25] And um, even just today. I was telling you before on the news, I saw a picture of someone who was killed in times square by falling debris. Their face was on the screen, their name is on the screen, it was just an equally as horrific accident. Out of nowhere. Don’t know if they have kids or a partner, whatever it is.
And I looked at their face and I was like, “oh, that’s awful,” but there wasn’t that sinking feeling of like dread that I got when I heard about Kobe, which is just like another thing, like why? Why don’t I have that? Which says like when you watch the news, there’s just always awful stuff and you’re almost like conditioned for it. You’re conditioned to see this awful, terrible stuff that they just throw at you and throw at you and throw at you and throw at you.
Mike: [00:12:11] De-sensitized.
Which
Jordan: [00:12:12] is pretty crazy. I mean, the, the rate at which people can almost forget about a school shooting is pretty insane.
Mike: [00:12:24] Yeah.
Jordan: [00:12:25] Where you can get tens, twenties kids dying and then go on with your day and like, yeah, it’s awful. but like, that’s insane. And then the fact that something like Kobe literally took me completely away from my work. I stopped writing. I was completely done. It was, uh, it was really unexpected, for sure. And I really don’t know why. I don’t even know where I’m going to go with this other than, I don’t know why that happened. I think it’s something to pay attention to and think about. Like why, why does that happen?
Mike: [00:12:58] Yeah. And there’ve been so many celebrity deaths in the last, call it decade, right? Like as, as new media has come up, and even over the last century as we’ve gotten to know people through Hollywood, like “know people,” we’re seeing more people who were “known” pass away, and none of them had the impact that this had for whatever reason.
Jordan: [00:13:26] Yeah, yeah. I agree completely.
Mike: [00:13:28] But no, you make a very good point, which is, I almost wish that I could, I could feel that deeply for everyone, but I didn’t either. Obviously.
Jordan: [00:13:42] It’s just very odd and like very powerful in many, many ways. And then it goes to the whole, you know, why do we need something like this to happen to make us, to remind us, reach out to that person or to value our life and ever cherish every moment, but you know, that’s life. You know? Like that’s how it is.
Mike: [00:14:04] Yeah. Wish it wasn’t, but there are going to be tragedies and if you can pull something positive from it and, and pay that positivity forward or change in some way that benefits others. It sounds cliché, but that seems to me like the best way to do your part in, in this confusing thing called life.
Jordan: [00:14:27] Yeah.
Mike: [00:14:29] Anyway,
Jordan: [00:14:31] Don’t even know where we were going with that, but, yeah. Felt like it was the right thing to talk about, to really like at the very least, discuss our feelings towards it. And…
Mike: [00:14:40] This is the only content I’m making right now, Jord, so I had to talk about it somewhere.
Jordan: [00:14:44] No, I, and you know, at first I was hesitant because–one of the main reasons I was hesitant was every time I saw it come up in the news or on Instagram or whatever I actively avoided it because even when I actively avoided it, it would still linger and it would make me upset. So, it was like, what do you do when you get upset? Oh, well, I am just going to try and avoid that at all costs. Right? Which is not the best strategy, but you know, I think, uh, it’s good to do things that make you uncomfortable.
This definitely was like uncomfortable for me. But it’s good to face that and discuss it and like really think like, why, why do we have these emotions for this one individual and why, uh, why am I personally averse to like really diving into those emotions? Right? I think it’s important to talk about.
Mike: [00:15:39] Yeah. I mean, those sounded like hypothetical questions, but it seems to me like you’re so consistently on a mission of doing good, that being thrown off of that for the rest of the day, like you said, that’s not optimal for what you’re trying to do, so it makes sense. To extrapolate it, what if you spent every single day just consuming negative news on Twitter or CNN or wherever and in feeling sad for every bad thing that happened, you wouldn’t be having the positive effect that you’re having on so many.
Jordan: [00:16:16] Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. And I think for me, so much of what I do is based around–and I’ve spoken about this before, I remember vividly when I applied for my first internship at a gym and I got denied and I was just devastated. And I like walked home and I was really upset about it. And my mom was like, how’d it go? And I was like, I didn’t get it. And she was like, well, now what? And then that, I was like, I don’t know. She’s like, you apply somewhere else. And so, a lot of times whenever I have a negative emotion, I literally go to more of a logical, like, well, now what? So, I see this awful tragedy, whatever it is, and it’s like, well, now what do I do?
It’s like what? And, sort of thinking, my aim, my goal, which is always for reach and help more people is…so I always go towards, okay, well here’s the logical thing to do. Here’s like, now what? And this is what’s gonna lead to more optimism and help and whatever. And so, I think, I don’t know if it’s fully, we’ll call it “healthy,” because I don’t, I don’t think I necessarily address all of my emotions in every situation, I’ll oftentimes just be like, yeah, it doesn’t like…why talk about it? Let’s just move forward from it. Right? Which realistically, probably isn’t the best strategy for everything. Like you have to have open communication. You have to talk about how things make you feel, which makes me glad that we spoke about it because I actually voice how I felt and I hadn’t done that.
I think now. We can then move forward from here and be like, cool, so we voiced it and we can have open discussions about it, but, uh, that didn’t prevent us from moving forward and being optimistic and what can we do now going forward?
Mike: [00:17:51] Of course.
Jordan: [00:17:52] Yeah.
Mike: [00:17:52] Not going to let it sink you in the sand. But the other thing that talking about emotions and, and even talking about what you’re feeling, even if you’re not sure does, is it helps you understand. Especially talking to someone else about it helps you work through your thoughts? I remember when I was in the process of trying to rationalize that I wanted to quit my accounting job. This was in 2011. Uh, I spoke to my mother at least once a week. She would just be a sounding board for an hour or two, and I would sit there and walk through all my thoughts and I was basically trying to convince myself and hype myself up that it was the right decision and she just let me talk to her. And through that I was able to sort through my thoughts, come to a productive conclusion.
Jordan: [00:18:40] That’s amazing.
Mike: [00:18:41] Yeah.
The mentorship.
Jordan: [00:18:49] Going to jump right in?
Mike: [00:18:50] Content calendar.
Jordan: [00:18:51] That’s the title of this episode, right? The content calendar or…
Mike: [00:18:54] How to make a content calendar.
Jordan: [00:18:56] Got it. Okay, so. Where should we start with this?
And the
Mike: [00:19:00] reason I just said “the mentorship” is because we have a whiteboard sitting next to us that, that has some stuff that Jordan and I were working on earlier today and yesterday.
Um, but in this episode, we want to talk about how to create a content calendar because what it essentially is, is a game plan, an aim, and accountability for one of the most important components of your business. Right? Creating content is how you are going to not only help people for free, but also reach people who have the potential to become clients. And so, making a calendar or making a schedule of some kind is going to be massively beneficial in, uh, taking out the day to day thought and just letting you know what you need to execute on.
Jordan: [00:19:54] There’s a lot that we could talk about. My mind is just going crazy, as you were talking about that. Number one is I think a lot of coaches, especially coaches who, who are very intelligent and they’ve spent a lot of time studying. And they’re, they’re, they know a lot. They’re incredible coaches, and they know a lot, but they haven’t really done the social media thing, right? Where they don’t have much of an audience, they haven’t spent much time creating content. I think they build up a lot of resentment towards the people who might know less than them, but have a bigger audience and like, “oh, that coach is stupid.”
They’re like, whatever. Like, “if I wrote a book, then my book would be amazing,” or “I could write a book that’s so much better than whatever they can do.” And I think what’s really important to remember about that as you might be the best coach in the world, you might have the best programs and the best guidance and the best, uh, way of simplifying things and the best pro– whatever it is.
But if you don’t have an audience who’s looking at you, and who trusts you, and is invested in you, and who supports you, no one’s going to get it, and no one will be helped by it. And I think the reason I really wanted to say this is because for the coaches who are either averse to really going in hard on social media because they think there’ll be selling out or who are nervous or anxious to do it for fear of being made fun of or judged or for the coaches who think the first thing they should do is make a product.
Those are all, it’s all the wrong way of going about it. You first have to build an audience of people who trust you, which as you and I have spoken about, ad nauseum is like done by giving away free information over and over and over and over again, and then coming back full circle, before you make your book, before you make your DVD, before you make your course, whatever it is — make content.
If for nothing else, it will help more people. But not to mention, I think this is something that really goes overlooked, the more you make content, the better you get at making content. Shocker. The more you deadlift, the better you get it deadlifting, the more you count your macros, the better you get at it. It’s a skill.
I made products back in 2013-2014 after I’d already been making content for two, three years now, and I look back and I’m like, “Oh dear, oh my Lord, what in the hell is that?” Number one, because I get better as a coach and I learn more and I realize, okay, well maybe phrasing it that way was too dogmatic or this program wasn’t well designed, whatever it is. And through the process of making more content, I’ve now gotten better at making other products as well and distilling information in a way that people understand. So, before you go into the, “okay, well, I want to make a product or a membership site or a whatever to make more money,” if that is your end goal, which is great, if it is, it’s totally fine. Make sure that you have a content calendar for your social media. Because this way, in the same way that your clients need a program every month in order to know what exercises they should be doing, how many sets and reps, what, what’s the weight they should be lifting. It’s not only important to that they know what to do, but also so they can look back on what they’ve done, so they can, “oh, well, six months ago I was dead lifting this amount and now I’m deadlifting this amount.”
And even though they might’ve thought they weren’t making progress; they can look back and track their records. So, if you make a content calendar now and stick to it and you can track, “okay, well this is how many followers I have, this is how many likes I’m getting, this is the data,” whatever it is. Track that over time. And then look back six months to a year, six months to a year, and you’ll see the progress. And you can use it to not only keep you focused on your aim and focused on your goal and to stay consistent, but to also, to remind yourself where you started and how much progress you’re making.
Mike: [00:23:56] Yeah, very well said.
So where should people start when putting together a content calendar?
Jordan: [00:24:03] Just so you know: when I speak with you, I speak way more slowly because your cadence is way better than mine. Like I, as I’m listening to you, I’m like, God, he’s so clear and deliberate, and when I speak, I’m usually way faster. So, when I’m speaking with you, I deliberately slow it down, I’m like, “oh, this sounds way better.”
Mike: [00:24:19] That’s very interesting because I do that with you. So maybe I just slowed myself, uh, past your point,
Jordan: [00:24:27] And maybe people are listening, like, why are they talking so slow?
Mike: [00:24:30] What kind of competition is this, with these two characters,
Jordan: [00:24:35] They have to speed it up two times just getting normal sound.
Mike: [00:24:40] That’s really funny.
Jordan: [00:24:41] I forgot what you asked. I’m sorry.
Mike: [00:24:45] So I think with what you just said, the value of social media and not just social media, but other places: website, email lists…
Jordan: [00:24:58] Should we talk about the website first? Is that where we should…
Mike: [00:25:01] Let’s talk about the website first. So, so this is a social media and content in general calendar, which means emailing your list, which means doing other things besides just posting on the main social media sites.
I think a lot of people are surprised. In fact, I would say almost everyone that hears you say the following is surprised when the question comes up about what is more important, Instagram or social media compared to a website with long form articles.
Jordan: [00:25:34] Yeah. I think, I think if you don’t have a website, number one, if you don’t have a website, do that today.
Let’s just make that clear. Like, if you by chance don’t have an Instagram and you don’t have a website, first make a website. That’s how I think the order of importance. Yeah. Now I’ll say I’m definitely biased because that’s what I did. I made my website before Instagram existed,
Mike: [00:26:02] But you’re also the guy who built 600K from scratch through blood, sweat, and tears. So…
Jordan: [00:26:09] There’s reasoning behind it. And so, I think, I sort of frame this in terms of rapid fat loss versus sustainable fat loss. Okay? When you have a client and they come to you, you could get them results very, very quickly, that might not be as sustainable or get them results more slowly that are easier to sustain.
Your website is the sustainable approach. Instagram is the rapid approach. Now, it doesn’t mean in the same way that rapid fat loss isn’t inherently bad. Some people respond very well to it, and it can be very good, used properly and it can turn into something more sustainable, long run. But if that’s what you’re relying on, it’s not a good recipe for long term success.
And I think if you start with the website, you build the foundation of really understanding great content, and I think–this is a whole separate debate–but I think long form content beats short form content 100% of the time, actually, 90% of the time, right? There’s, there’s a time and place for each, but in terms of building trust, delivering value…
Mike: [00:27:17] Creating depth with your audience,
Jordan: [00:27:19] And also making you a better coach as well. Because if you have to write 1500-2000 word article, you can’t skirt around the edges on that. You have to do your research. That’s where I think a lot of my initial learning really went in depth — when I was writing articles, like I didn’t just write that off the top of my head. They took 20 to 24 hours oftentimes, not just the…
Mike: [00:27:44] Say it again.
Jordan: [00:27:45] 20 to 24 hours per article.
Mike: [00:27:47] Per article.
Jordan: [00:27:49] I mean, there was so much research that went into it, whether it was pub med or whether it was through Martin Berkhan, Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon, whoever it was, so much research, through various mediums, in order to make sure what I was writing was actually accurate and up to date.
And so much time went into really crafting it in the best way I possibly could make me a better coach and to give the best content. And the cool part about that is when you get very good at sustainable fat loss, you can try rapid fat loss and then go back to sustainable fat loss. You can cycle back and forth if you want.
Just because you’re good at rapid fat loss, losing weight very quickly, it doesn’t mean you’re good at sustaining it and doesn’t mean you have strategies to get back on track. I mean, for example, you could do the juice cleanse, lose 20 pounds in three weeks, but doesn’t mean you know how to get back on track.
You could be very good on Instagram. But number one, it leaves you open to a lot of mistakes. And number two is I know people who have relatively big Instagrams and very much struggle with their business because they don’t have a website. They don’t have anywhere that people can go and look them up and research them and apply.
There’s so much that goes on your website that if you don’t build that first, you’re, you’re on a foundation that doesn’t exist.
Mike: [00:29:07] Yes. Yup. That’s absolutely right. And something that Jordan alluded to, but I’m going to detail a little bit more specifically, is when you create an Instagram post, basically everyone who is going to see that post sees it in the first 48 to 72 hours.
And obviously if someone new comes across your page, they’re going to scroll down and look at things. So, some people are going to see older posts, some people will save posts and go back to them. But the overwhelming majority of people who consume an Instagram post see it right when it comes out, and then it kind of falls into the ether unless you pop it back on your story or if someone deep dives your page.
When you write an article, a long form article on your website, people who are looking for the answer to a specific problem are going to go into the Google machine with one thought in mind, “how do I count my macros?” “What are macro nutrients?” And for a number of years, I had the first page, first result for that term. I’ve, I’ve been dethroned since, but, but that one article that I wrote in a day–a 15 hour day–and then there were a many hours of editing and going back, but the bulk of it was written in one day, led to years of hundreds and sometimes thousands of new people in a single day finding me, finding my website, finding other articles, signing up for the email list, inquiring about coaching, downloading Mike’s Micros, yeah, all of these things. For years, every day for years, like Pete Cataldo. Do you want to tell this story?
Jordan: [00:30:58] No. You tell Pete’s story.
Mike: [00:30:59] Okay. I’ll tell Pete’s story.
Jordan: [00:31:00] Pete was in the mentorship for the first year. He’s, I think he’s in it again. Pete signed up for the mentorship in 2019 and 2020 and this is a really cool story. He told us on the last live Q & A we did.
Mike: [00:31:12] So I actually have it here in my photos. Um, Pete said. One of the articles from our first challenge last year now ranks on the first page of Google, search term “best weight loss workout plan for beginners.” Like, I can’t overstate how big that is for Pete. The ROI of the time that went into him writing that and the long tail effect of people who are going to stumble across it and, and derive information. And, and, the amount of people that that article is going to help, um, as well as the effect that that’s going to have for Pete in his business. Because in the first or second challenge of the 2019 mentorship
Jordan: [00:32:05] Yeah, February or March at the latest.
Mike: [00:32:06] Yeah, it was early on. The, the challenge was to write an article per week, a long-form article per week on your website. And if they didn’t have a website, getting a website up and running was part of the challenge. And Pete wrote all four articles. That was one of them. And it ended up on page one of Google. And those are hours that most people would be tempted to spend on the, the rapid fat loss of business on Twitter, on Instagram, wherever, um.
But by taking down a notch, the amount of output that he was doing, there, focusing on writing a good article, that’s what happened. And obviously not every article that you ever write is going to end up on page one of Google. Most of the articles Jordan and I wrote, did not end up there, but you’re not gonna know unless you do it. And unless you try,
Jordan: [00:32:58] Not to mention, I think this is really important too, Pete wrote this article about a year ago. It didn’t show up on the first page of Google until very recently. If your client told you that they wanted to have a six-pack next week, you’d laugh. But now I have to ask you if I told you that you’re going to write an article today that you will not see any benefit from for the next year, and there’s also no guarantee that you’ll see benefit from this article.
What would your response be? And it’s probably how your clients feel when you tell them, “Hey, you have to be patient and, you know, it’s going to take a lot of time.” Writing long-form website articles, aside from just making you a better coach, and building more trust, the ROI over the long term is unbelievable.
And, Mike was saying that most of the articles will not rank highly on Google and they won’t, and that’s okay. The goal isn’t to make 100% of the articles rank on Google. I mean, that would be amazing if it did, but that’s not the goal. In the same way that every time you go to the gym, you’re not going to have the best workout. Every single day you’re not going to hit your nutrition perfectly. The goal is to do it as consistently as possible, as well as you can so that over time these small wins add up.
I’ve written over 500 articles, and I haven’t written an article in a long time, but between 2011 and 2015 I wrote hundreds and hundreds of articles, both for myself and other websites.
I have articles for other websites that rank on Google for number one, never mind my own website. And those drive traffic for me, like high ranking websites. If you Google search “how to do a backflip,” my article is the first one that comes up, and that drives so many people to my website who otherwise never would have found me.
Um, there’s, there’s a bunch– if you, if you search “how to stay full in a calorie deficit,” I believe my article is, the first one that comes up, if not the first couple. That was actually the article that went viral about a number of months after I wrote it. So, I initially published it and I was like, this is going to go nuts immediately. Almost like we would expect an Instagram post to, for whatever reason, I was like published it and I don’t know, I had maybe 40 views on my website a day at that time and I was like, “this is going to go nuts.” And it didn’t. And like three months later, uh, an author on Lifehacker tweeted it out and shared it and it blew up.
And I didn’t have an email list at the time and I was just devastated because there are, there are over 24,000 views to my website that day. Um, but these articles– I can specifically name these couple of articles that consistently drive more and more people to me on a regular basis and help a lot of people out of the hundreds that I’ve written over the years.
And it just goes to show you that if you really are about sustainability, like if that’s what you really are about, and you don’t just talk about it and you really are in this for the long term and you really are willing to work hard and you’re really not just looking for the quick fix and like you’re really here to coach people, then pucker up because– get your website going and start writing articles, ’cause that’s really what the sustainable approach is. Just like your clients don’t want to hear about, you know, moderate or like I dunno about tracking their calories or their macros or being more consistent or being patient.
You probably don’t want to hear that because you get the more quick fix hit from the Instagram likes or whatever it is. You will not get as many likes from your website at the beginning. It will not be the immediate, like a serotonin or dopamine release that you’re going to get when people like, like your stuff and DM you about it, but long term, in a year or two years, five years, it could completely and utterly change your life in the lives of hundreds and thousands of people.
Mike: [00:36:36] Yep. Very well said. So, if you don’t have a website, create a website today. And if you do have a website, let’s get a nice article up there in the next two weeks?
Jordan: [00:36:48] Max. Seven days.
Mike: [00:36:50] In the next week.
Yeah.
Jordan: [00:36:51] And to the, uh, to the title of this episode, which is about creating a content, calendar, aim to do at least one article a week. Like, that is it– I’m going to sort of retract that. If you can do one– or we could also talk about the rankings that we’re going to have for the mentorship. That might make more sense. But one article a week is a lot, like, if you’re making a great article, and I’ve seen a lot of awful articles, like really bad ones where they’ll do 250 words or whatever it is, 500 words. It’s okay, but don’t fall into the trap of making an article short because you think people don’t have a long attention span.
That’s ridiculous. I don’t even, what time is it? We’ve already been talking for over half an hour. Right? Imagine if you said it’s going to take you 30 minutes for an article, you’d say, no way, but that’s not true. People will listen and watch and read whatever they’re interested in.
Mike: [00:37:47] Yes. Regardless of how long it is.
Jordan: [00:37:48] That’s exactly right.
Mike: [00:37:49] And the people who are thinking, eh, blogs and articles that that might’ve worked in 2011 or 2013 or even 2015 but it’s 2020 and social media is the game. You have to remember that the content creators are also of that mindset. So, you have to look at both supply and demand of information.
And I know very few people in the fitness industry putting out good, consistent, high quality, long form website articles. And I know like 750,000 on Instagram, banging out content on the daily.
Jordan: [00:38:28] That’s a great point.
Mike: [00:38:30] Just because it seems like everyone is on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok, whatever these, the up and coming places. Um, there are still millions of people typing their questions into Google, or if we want to talk about what the search engines are, Google, YouTube, and kind of Amazon, even though that’s not super relevant right now to this conversation, are the places that people are looking for answers and someone who has a problem and wants the answer is a better potential client than someone who is opening Instagram because they may be bored and, obviously there are varying degrees of follower, some are very hardcore, moderate, some just kind of glaze over. But you have to remember some of the people who see your Instagram are– they’re logging on to catch a little bit of what happened on Real Housewives and a little bit of the E-News and a little bit of friends, family, kids, and then they have the few fitness accounts that they follow too, and it’s kind of, they may or may not read the caption. The type of person who plugs a question into a search engine, clicks on your article, they really want what you have already created there.
Jordan: [00:39:53] Google’s the number one search engine in the world for a reason. If you search the most used website, I’m pretty sure it’s Google. Definitely not Instagram. Like the number one I believe is Google, and you can check me on that. Uh, you can see the Alexa ranking if you want. But going back to the content calendar — one time a week I think is probably ideal, but, that’s a very general term. Ideal is very dependent on a number of other things. I’m not doing any articles a week, so you have to keep that in mind, but I also have hundreds that I’ve already done. If you can’t do one a week, because it will sacrifice the quality– I’ll say this, I would rather you write one article a month that is gold, platinum, just unbelievable, than four a month that are “eh.” I would rather you spend your entire month, 12 articles at the end of the year, that are unbelievably well done than doing four months that are, “Oh, okay. That was good. But you know, nothing great.” Because the ROI from each individual article will just be over the moon. It’ll be unbelievable.
So, if we’re looking at a content calendar. And you’re really going to take our advice to heart. And if you don’t have a website, you’re going to make that first. And we’ll talk about that in a second. And if you do have a website, just start writing articles immediately, then I would figure out what you can realistically do. In the same way you have a client, well, how many days a week can they realistically go to the gym? You’re not going to give them seven, cause that’s stupid. So, like, how many days, how many articles a month can you realistically do? Better to start with less than more, just like with your client, you probably don’t start them off with too much to rather start them low.
Do the same with yourself. Do the same thing that you would suggest for somebody else. So, if you start off with one, great, but now hold yourself accountable and do that one. Don’t wait until 30 days go by and you try and do the whole article in a matter of hours just to get your quota in. Don’t just check it off.
Make sure that you plan, you set time aside to do their research, to make sure that you have everything compiled, to get a good draft going, to make sure that, like– go read other great websites that have incredible content, whether it’s mine or Mike’s or Eric Cressey’s or Dean Somerset or whoever it is. See how they structure it. Dan John, Nia Shanks. I mean, there’s some really amazing websites with incredible coaches who you can follow their lead in regard to, like, what’s worked well for them and model it off of them because clearly, it’s worked. It doesn’t mean copy their words, it means look at how they’re structuring their articles so maybe if you don’t know, you can now see a good model for it.
Mike: [00:42:26] I like that a lot. Anything else on, on writing website articles?
Jordan: [00:42:33] I think, um, the one thing that I can foresee, and I would be remiss not to mention this: we have an entire course on website development in the mentorship. We just, it’s an amazing resource. Just you gotta…it’s amazing. But if you don’t have a website, or even if you do, but especially if you don’t, don’t worry about the name. I think it’s the most overly worried about aspect of making a website. My name is Syatt Fitness, because J.C. Deen bought that for me in 2011 when I was like a teenager and I didn’t know what…he was like, “you need a website.” I was like, okay.
Mike: [00:43:13] My website name is On The Regimen because I spent an entire year at a public accounting firm daydreaming about what I should title my website, and then I named it something that 67% of people misspell, whether it’s regiment at the T or the regime with an E at the end.
Jordan: [00:43:33] Yeah, the name, I mean, Eric Cressey’s is ericcressey.com. I mean, you have a, I think Nia Shanks, I believe it’s either niashanks.com or lift like a girl, one of those. Uh, she’s tremendous, by the way, really enjoy her work, especially on strength training. But the whole point is no one remembers. No one even cares what the name of your website is.
It’s irrelevant. You can make it your name. You can make it your name with a like your name, fitness, your name, training systems, whatever it is. If you spend more than an hour on that, you’re wasting time. Pick a name, get the website up, and I use wordpress.org– err, not anymore. I like over time– that’s worth discussing, like should you pay for a big website design?
The way that I did it when I first started my website in 2011, I just use a free plugin from wordpress.org and they just like, it was a template that they had, and it was awful. It was super ugly. I got comments on my website being like, your contents great, but why does your website look so awful?
Like, they’re still there. I’ve never deleted the comments. Um, the point in telling you that is don’t worry about making it look pretty. As long as your content is good, that’s all people will care about. That’s it. So, like pick a name. Go to wordpress.org, get a free template, and then my rule was I wasn’t going to pay for a website redesign until I could fund it through solely my online coaching income.
And that’s what I did about a year, year and a half after, uh, I really started, I funded my first one and I’ve been at the same guy ever since Kevin Morton, KJ Productions, they’re amazing. Um, yeah. Anything you wanna add to that?
Mike: [00:45:14] If someone were to ask, why wordpress.org and why not Squarespace or Wix or why not one of the other many options that exist, what would you tell them?
Jordan: [00:45:28] I would say, number one, I’m not an expert in this, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but from my experience, having worked with people who’ve used Wix or these other places as well as WordPress, in my own experience, WordPress is significantly easier to modify. It’s, it’s more customizable. It’s difficult to use Wix or, or to transfer– it’s more difficult to use them.
It’s more difficult to use them and when you start– I think they are easier from the beginning, like they’re an easier entrance. There’s a lower barrier …
Mike: [00:46:02] Easier to go from zero to one, but harder to go from one to five.
Jordan: [00:46:05] That’s a perfect way of putting it. Way more articulate. It’s, um, yeah. I think if you’re serious about this, if you’re very serious about this, then get a wordpress.org. It’s a little bit more setup time, but it’s worth it.
Mike: [00:46:22] Cool.
Jordan: [00:46:24] I’m just burping really hard right now. Geez.
Mike: [00:46:26] The bubbly water. So, you have your website, an article a month, minimum, high quality. If you can do more, amazing. What’s next on the content calendar?
Jordan: [00:46:40] So let me explain the ranks, right? So, what we have for the mentorship is basically we have our first content calendar, and every month we’re going to be giving a new challenge. Sort of like, so Pete wrote how, and one of the challenges last year, he got the– now his article SEOing number one, right? And so that was one of the challenges, but now we’re getting more specific and really giving out basically content calendars with challenges, numbers of either articles to hit per month or, or social media posts, whatever it is, and we have different ranks. So, we have, I believe it’s five different ranks. So, let’s say you literally do nothing that we tell you to do, like you don’t do any articles, no posts, all the specifics that we lay out. You do none of it. Your rank is “living in mom’s basement.”
That’s like the lowest rank. The next rank is “intern.” The next rank is “coach. “The next rank is “specialist,” and the final rank is “guru.”
Mike: [00:47:37] The guru.
Jordan: [00:47:38] The guru. And now we actually made that on purpose because if you reach the total number of posts and articles and everything that we outlined in the monthly challenge for, for guru, odds are you’ll have had to have sacrificed quality in order to get there. The number of posts that that is, the number of, whether it’s podcasts or videos or, or tweets or, or YouTube or whatever it is, it’s a ton. And if you do it and it’s high quality, amazing. But that’s a little bit much. So, our goal with this is to make sure that when you’re creating content, you’re being very consistent and you’re keeping it incredibly high quality and you’re pushing yourself to do more, but not at the expense of the quality of your work. And so that’s probably gonna lead you somewhere to between coach and specialist if you’re really, like, putting in the right amount of work. Um, is there anything you want to add to that?
Mike: [00:48:38] I think even if we take away this specific example, I think that concept is very important that, uh, quality over quantity. And not to the point where it makes you a perfectionist and it, and it leads to you not putting out content because you’re trying to quote unquote, make it so high quality. But, um. There’s just so much content out there that a “spray and pray” mentality, a “create as much as I can,” it’s just not going to work. Like it’s not going to help people. You know, I see a lot of that with, um, very regular, consistent reposting of content rather than creating one’s own. Um, yeah. So, quality and quantity are both important and nothing you create is ever going to be perfect.
And I’m giving myself advice here big time. So just kick it out there, but try to make it really good. Like you don’t want to post something that you’re not proud of or that you look at and say, “I don’t think this is very good.”
Jordan: [00:49:52] Yeah. And I think another way to look at it is. This is really important because if you, I, I post my daily to-do lists relatively frequently on my Instagram story.
And one of the things people are surprised about is how few items there are on it. There’s like three to five at most. There’s not that many. And I think a lot of people are like, “okay, well I got a post on this and I got a post on this. I got to post on this. I’ve got to do multiple posts here. I’ve got to do this and this,” and then either it’s too much, they don’t do anything, or they look at each piece of content as just “checking it off the list.” Well, okay, well I did that and I did that, but they don’t pay much mind to like, sometimes I’ll spend over an hour on a tweet. I’ll say that one more time. Sometimes I’ll spend over an hour on a tweet.
Silence.
I was just like; I was just like let that sit for a second. It’s what, how many characters? 145 characters? It’s tiny. One of my favorite stories about one of the best copywriters of all time, Dan Kennedy, is basically about how one of the most lucrative pieces of copywriting ever, ever written, which was by him, took him 16-18 months to create, so well over a year, and it was a paragraph. A paragraph that was, I believe in a newspaper, and it just– to date one of the highest record selling things in the world in terms of copywriting. It’s historic. Took him over a year and a half to write a paragraph that sold incredibly well, and obviously we don’t want you to take a year and a half in between tweets, but the purpose is really to see– don’t just check it off the list.
Mike: [00:51:33] Yeah.
Jordan: [00:51:33] I think this is where we’ve seen some really amazing successes with people who put in a tremendous amount of work, and we’ve seen some people who thought they were putting in a lot of work, but the volume of their work was sacrificing the quality of it, and so it was almost like a fake sense of work.
It was like, well, I’m doing this many posts a day, but then when you go look, it was all repost. Or maybe the captions were a sentence and a half or there were a lot of spelling errors and it wasn’t well done. You could tell that they got, they just were doing it to check it off rather than to really put time and effort into it.
I mean, between my YouTube and my Instagram and my Twitter, I mean, it’s a full-time job every day, like at least and so much so that I had to hire a videographer to– another full-time job. And Rico works harder than I do. So, he’s working like two full time jobs and it’s like, I think a lot of people might look at what I’m doing and say, well, I can’t do that, I don’t have a videographer. I don’t have this. Like, I didn’t start with that. I started just writing articles on my website one time a week and then adding to that either the tweets or the YouTube videos or Instagram or whatever, but don’t just check it off. Make sure you put a lot of time and effort in each post.
I think what’s a good way to look at it is this. I would rather, when you put out a piece of content on Instagram, people get unbelievably excited to go read that piece of content and read every word, and you do that three or four times a week rather than doing it every day. And a higher percentage of people like it, but don’t even read it.
I’d rather have fewer posts per week that people get excited about than more posts per week that people are like, “eh, I don’t want to read that.”
Mike: [00:53:17] And of course, if you can do seven per week that people are very excited about.
Jordan: [00:53:21] Amazing. Absolutely. I mean, I’ll say this though, I mean. I grew up in special education, like I, I’m not a great student. Like I’m not like the smartest guy at all. I have to work very hard to sort of reach the same level in many ways. And if I tried to have the volume of content now–that I do now, when I was five, six, seven years ago, I would have failed. Immediately. Because again, content creation is a skill.
So, please. Start low, build up self-efficacy, build a confidence in yourself. Start low. Set the bar low– set the bar low for volume, but the bar incredibly high for quality. Let quality be barometer of your success. And if you can do that on a consistent basis, you’ll win.
Mike: [00:54:13] Correct. I think that feeds very nicely into which platforms in order should I be posting on? How many platforms should I be posting on? Uh, a feeling like if you’re not posting on every single platform, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, website, snapchat, Tik Tok, LinkedIn, Pinterest, like it’s like you’re not doing enough.
Jordan: [00:54:40] Yeah.
Mike: [00:54:41] What we are saying about quality over quantity, um, applies with platform selection.
One is better than zero. If you can’t post on all nine platforms consistently, guess what? Neither can I and, and you don’t have to to see the types of results that you want to, and you probably couldn’t without sacrificing quality. So in the same way that we’re encouraging you to post less frequently, if necessary, to keep quality high, we’re also saying that if you feel overwhelmed, especially in the beginning, by trying to manage five different social media platforms, then picking one or two and trying to do a really good job on those platforms is the proper route forward at the very least to start.
Jordan: [00:55:35] Absolutely. You know, as you’re talking about that, I was thinking– excuse you.
Um, one of my favorite pieces of content that I made for fitness was my own version of the food pyramid. Which is basically at the bottom, it’s not calories, it’s not protein, it’s foods you enjoy. It’s because even if your calories are in check, even if your proteins in check, even if your nutrition is “perfect,” but you’re not doing it with foods you enjoy, you’re not going to be consistent with it and it’s not going to work long term.
So, sort of bring this over to the social media content model, make sure if you don’t know what platform to start with, start with the one you enjoy most and not just the one you enjoy consuming content on most, but the one you enjoy making content on most, which is another way of saying play to your strengths, right?
If you are petrified of being on camera and you know you’re not going to be good on camera, then don’t feel like you have to do that first. Start somewhere else. Start on LinkedIn. Start on, um, I wouldn’t say Twitter would be the best place to start, just because it’s so short form and it’s, it takes, takes a long time, like I would rather you start with a longer, longer form piece of content, whether it’s article writing, whether it’s YouTube, whether it’s podcast, or even going on Facebook and/or LinkedIn with long form pieces of written content, it would be great. Facebook is, is a wonderful platform for long form written content — sort of like mini blogs, if you will. Um, and I would encourage you to get a business page, but you could literally just do it on your personal page. That’s where I started, my personal Facebook page. It’s where you have a readymade audience of people who know you and trust you.
So, point being: start with one that you really enjoy. And just so you know, Gary, Gary Vaynerchuk is talking about Tik Tok and saying, if you’re not on it, it’s a huge mistake and it very well might be a huge mistake. I’m deliberately not on it because I hate the platform and not because the platform sucks, but because I have no self-control and I will waste four hours of time-consuming content that is really stupid but also hilarious, and I’ll just waste time on it.
So, I don’t go on it anymore. So if you know, like let’s say, let’s say you hate Instagram for whatever reason, number one, I would say, well, check who you’re following, because like if, if you hate Instagram, it’s probably because of the people you’re following and you can control that better. But if you just absolutely despise it, you hate it, it being on it makes you sick, then don’t do– don’t go, go to LinkedIn. It’s probably a way more clean platform, way more business professional, but choose the platform that you enjoy the most so that then your content creation can be enjoyable
Mike: [00:58:13] And that you enjoy the most and that you enjoy creating for the most, because writing and speaking for an hour, like having a conversation, a podcast, or doing Q & A or vlogging, these are all very different communication styles.
Um, I really, from day one, have loved YouTube and have loved being by myself and talking to a camera more than almost anything else. And through that platform, I’ve been able to build deep, meaningful relationships with so many people. Uh, and, and I like to think helped a lot of them through that process, but it wasn’t through any, uh, strategic mechanism that I got there other than I like being alone with the camera and just talking to it. It feels good and I feel like I can do good like this more than going on Facebook and inevitably four minutes in ending up reading a, like, an argument between a vegan and a carnivore or a Democrat and a Republican or like whatever it led me to. Consuming other people’s drama, uh, has, it’s been like that on Twitter a little bit for me too, and I try to stay clear of the, the, that’s my version of Tik Tok
Jordan: [00:59:38] Yeah, Twitter can really lead you down a bad path. I really try not to go on the main feed, but even when I stay in my own comments, sometimes that’ll take me just down a dark hole to somewhere that I just didn’t expect and somewhere I ended up in this dark place of the internet where you got like the worst of the worst on both sides going at it and you’re like, how did I start? I started off with calorie counting and now I’m at Nazis
Mike: [01:00:00] Not to mention, who are these people and how have you never come across them in real life?
Jordan: [01:00:06] Yeah, exactly. So.
Mike: [01:00:09] That’s a different conversation.
Picking a platform that you enjoy creating on and, and that feels good and right to you, and, and maybe the creating vs consuming and separating them is a maybe a good conversation for another day because I think there has to be some strategy behind it, but if you are disciplined and dialed, then maybe you have the right brain chemistry to be able to just execute at making stuff for platforms without simultaneously getting caught up and consuming, uh, unintentionally and like in an addictive kind of way on that platform, then good for you. Create wherever you want to.
Jordan: [01:00:53] Just, I think is worth mentioning. Just so you know, I’ve changed a lot of my social media– or one major aspect of my social media strategy on Instagram in the last several weeks, which is I’m blocking people like crazy. Like I’m, my blocking finger is strong right now. I’m really putting in reps on it because I got to a point where if someone, like, came into my DMs and they were just being just rude for no reason or whatever it is. Not disagreeing with me, I’m fine with people disagreeing with me, but if someone’s coming at me aggressively and rudely, I used to try and, I used to think it was the higher route to try and speak with them and to reason with them. And sometimes in some ways, yeah, maybe it is the higher route, but also I know if that person is affecting my ability to help other people who are kind and are appreciative and I can’t do that as well, or maybe I’m more short fused with someone who has, shouldn’t have been short fuse with because of that person, it’s not worth it. So, I’ve been blocking people like crazy and it feels great.
Mike: [01:01:57] That’s awesome.
Jordan: [01:01:57] So if you– you really need an audit number one who you’re following, but also if someone’s bugging, don’t feel like you have to allow them to follow you. You can block them and make your headspace as clean as possible because this is tough. Like, it’s really, really tough. And I think over the last six, 6 to 12 months, I’ve been tested a lot with a lot of comments and a lot of hate, way more than I’ve ever gotten my life. And, uh, you know, I’ve said one of the best lessons I learned from Gary was if someone’s taking the time to do that to you, to leave mean comments, it means they’re in a really bad place in their life.
And that helped for sure, it’s been a great mindset shift. But if I were to tell you that I don’t get mad when people are rude or mean or whatever, like that would be a lie. Like it still bothers me. It’s just the amount. It bothers me a significantly less. So, I think sometimes people think that they’re weak or that they shouldn’t let it bother them, or they just, it happens and they just, they don’t go on Instagram for a week or they don’t post anymore. It’s like block people. If you need to, it’s okay.
Mike: [01:02:58] I’m going to give a slight altering opinion.
Jordan: [01:03:01] I love it. Go for it.
Mike: [01:03:02] Which is that, I think you earned the right to do that by putting in, not blocking reps, but conversation reps. Meaning I think you have had so many conversations on podcasts, in person, and probably mostly on DMs or comments with people that disagree with you and are rude in the process and kind of going back and forth like that that you learned, you learned valuable skills through the amount of that that you have done. That, that now at this point, I completely understand and I, we’re on the same page. We’ve talked about this, that you blocking someone versus spending 45 minutes going back and forth, like, not trying to win them over, but, but in a sense, trying to see eye to eye and trying to help them when really they were coming at it with a, not malicious intent, but you know, they were trolling or they were intentionally being annoying. They were being the squeaky wheel to get the grease and to get your attention, and rather than deal with that, you’re just not going to waste the 45 minutes because you can help 30 times that amount of people who are good natured.
I just didn’t want it to get confused. For someone who maybe has 367 Instagram followers and they made a post about, um, you know, getting 120 grams of protein a day. If you weigh 150 pounds and someone comes in their comments who is maybe confused and on a plant based diet and talking about like, “Hey, you’re not supposed to get that much protein,” like err on the side of dialogue first. But there’s definitely a time and place when you’re just Syatt Fitness-famous and you’re so big time that you’ve got to smash that block button
Jordan: [01:04:50] No, I, I– that’s 100% way better way of phrasing it, for sure, is err on the side of dialogue, but also your mental health is super important and like if it’s creating this– if it’s preventing you from posting or creating anxiety, it’s not worth it. Like block it.
Mike: [01:05:05] Yeah, and it depends on how they’re coming at you.
Jordan: [01:05:08] Yeah, exactly. I think this is something that’s really important is it’s okay, this is why I started my whole “Jordan Stinks” series, the podcast where I get people to disagree with me, because people really enjoy hearing people disagree and listening to the discussions and the arguments and what comes from it.
One of the things that I think that– one of the best lessons I learned, I believe I learned this from Mark Young in like 2012-2013. I remember I, I Mark Young, I don’t know if he does stuff in the fitness industry anymore. A really sweet, nice guy. He’s, he has a whole product years and years ago that was about how to read fitness research. I remember I bought it. It was like how to go into pub med and had actually like read and search for good research. It’s one of the best things I’ve ever invested in, but, I remember I saw, I think I saw him arguing with people in the comment section, like very intelligently and well-spoken, but I was really young and I remember DMing and be like, “Hey, Mark, like, why are you spending time doing this?”
And he was like, “my goal isn’t to get the person I’m arguing with to come to my side. My goal is to inform the people who are reading the discussion to help them come up to their own decision.” And that was a huge experience for me, and I’ve reiterated that numerous times. But if someone’s arguing with you or debating with you on your post, use it as an opportunity to help educate the other people who are reading those comments. And if someone says, “well, this is wrong or that stupid,” or whatever, be very kind. Kill them with kindness, but present your, your facts or present your stance firmly but openly and people will garner more respect for you.
And if you’re wrong, great. Say you’re right that was an oversight on my part. I’ve should’ve been, it should’ve been worded better, whatever it is. Um, but absolutely the dialogue in your comments can be very helpful to also educate and build trust.
Mike: [01:06:55] Yeah, that’s a great way to look at it.
Jordan: [01:06:57] And in other people’s comments. Like if, let’s say on one of my posts, for example, if you go on one of my posts and someone is saying X, Y, and Z, and you disagree with it go in there and be kind, but like “well actually, from my research, here’s what I learned, blah blah blah,” and guarantee you people in my comments will see that and then you can start to get more people looking at you and trusting you and following you.
Mike: [01:07:19] Yep, absolutely true. We have a nice message here that you received. Do you want to read this?
Jordan: [01:07:28] Yeah. I give Mike my phone before we record, so I’m not tempted. So, he just handed me– all right, so we got this really nice message from a, actually, I don’t want to say his Instagram because I don’t want to just blow him out, but we’re really, really proud and happy about this.
This young guy, he wrote, “Hey, I’ve been listening to you and Mike’s podcast lately, and it encouraged me to get my applications out there. I was honest with the gym owner, telling him my certifications and how new I am to the business. That being said, he’s interested in hiring me soon and is starting me with an internship that will likely be into full time work. I just wanted to say thank you. Without y’alls extra push, I’m not sure I could have made it. Thank you.”
This, like, makes us so happy. I think it was the first episode, I think it was the first episode we spoke about getting an internship and being open and being honest about it and, uh, this isn’t the first one. We’ve had at least one other who also got an internship. He actually wants to come on the podcast and talk to us about it, which I think we’re going to have– I think he’s going to drive here. I don’t know. I don’t know where he is. I forget, but…
Mike: [01:08:29] Ohio maybe.
Jordan: [01:08:30] Is that Ohio? Okay. Yeah. I think he’s not high. It literally is going to drive like 10 hours to come and be on the podcast with us, but if you don’t know where to begin and you don’t have any certifications and you, you, or maybe you do have certifications, but you just, you want to get more experience and be a better coach. One of the best things you can do is get an internship. And if you don’t know what to do, go to a gym near you and tell them you want to work for free and they’ll probably hire you for free. And so, you can get experience and learn from them. And it’s one of the best things that you can do. And I did that numerous times throughout my life.
Mike: [01:09:03] Yeah. Working for free is, is the absolute game. We don’t need to continue to hammer this nail, although I’m more than happy to because I’m such a believer in it.
The experience you get from it, the people you meet from it, the fact that one out of nine or one out of 12 of you that walk into a gym and say that you want to work for free, will actually get an interview for a paid position, um, and potentially even like a very good chance of getting that position. We can’t recommend it highly enough. The experience you’ll gain through the internship, getting hands-on coaching experience if you haven’t yet. There’s so much upside and no downside.
Jordan: [01:09:47] Yeah. Yeah.
Mike: [01:09:49] So congrats to our friend there. That’s, yeah, it’s really awesome.
Was there
Jordan: [01:09:54] anything else you wanted to hit on today?
Mike: [01:09:56] We hit on everything that we covered in the list.
Jordan: [01:09:58] Let’s talk about– is it okay if we talk about one more thing?
Mike: [01:10:01] Absolutely.
Jordan: [01:10:03] It’s over an hour already. Uh, okay.
Mike: [01:10:06] What’s on, what’s on your mind?
Jordan: [01:10:09] Create, don’t document.
Mike: [01:10:11] Yeah. Oh yes. We didn’t hit everything on the list, so if, I don’t think Gary has hammered this real hard in the last…
Jordan: [01:10:21] Recently, I haven’t seen it.
Mike: [01:10:22] But, but Gary Vaynerchuk used to have a “document, don’t create” kind of slogan or thought process around creating content, and I’m, I’m a big fan of that slogan when someone is really struggling with what to post, because documenting literally shows, like, you can just turn a camera on or you can just write something about what’s on your mind right now, and it’s easier to create content.
Um, so in that regard, I like the strategy. In the fitness industry, the fact that there are so many people desperately craving education around workouts and nutrition makes me much more partial to creating. Um, I’ll, I’ll let you pick up from there. I have some more thoughts, but I’m feeling a little scatterbrained.
Jordan: [01:11:23] I think the reason we want to talk about this is because we’ve spoken to a number of people who their go-to is “well Gary says, document don’t create,” and so that sort of, they feel lost in regard to what to make. And they feel like it’s a rule where they can’t create and actually, to tell a story– this is going to go way longer than an hour, but…
Mike: [01:11:45] You’re fine.
Jordan: [01:11:46] When Rico first started working with me just about a year ago. Happy anniversary, Rico . Uh, when Rico just started working with me– so Rico came from a background of really watching really amazing fitness vloggers, like Christian Guzman, Max Chewning a lot, and they do that document, don’t create, they vlog.
And Rico came from that background of watching them and loving them and really also loving Gary and being like, “you’re supposed to document, not create.” So, if you go back and look at my YouTube videos from a year ago, they’re mostly vlogs, mainly because Rico came in wanting to do that, and I was like, you know what? I’m going to let Rico run the show. He’s in charge. He gets to, he gets to decide. Even though, to be quite frank with you, I hated it. I hate vlogging. I don’t enjoy it. It’s, it’s not, it doesn’t feel good for me to be like– I, I’m, I prefer to be a coach, educator. Not, uh, “look at me in my life.” It’s just, that’s where I prefer to be.
Um, they didn’t do that well. And we didn’t do it for…
Mike: [01:12:54] Your vlogs.
Jordan: [01:12:55] Yeah, my vlogs, they didn’t do that well, and I think a lot of it because I didn’t really enjoy it very much. So, I told Rico after a certain period of time, I was like, we’re not going to do blogs anymore. Actually, you can see the progression — first we did vlogs, then we did vlogs plus education then we went to just education because as we, as we, went to the vlogs, just education, they started to do better. And then when we moved, just to education, they exploded. They did way, way, way better. And I think there’s a number of reasons for this.
Number one, I enjoyed it more. I was way happier to record a video on an educational topic rather than I was to do a vlog. Uh, it just, I was more excited about it, I was more passionate about it, but also, back to what Mike is saying, people, especially in fitness– but it goes across any industry, whether you’re talking about botany or you’re talking about sales or hotels or whatever it is.
If someone wants to improve and they’re researching ways to improve, they’re going to look for educational material. So, this whole “document don’t create” thing, a lot of people fall into this trap of where they feel like it’s a rule where they cannot create because of the saying. And I think, Gary, if he had the opportunity to really clarify, he wouldn’t tell you don’t create, ’cause so much of what he does is actual creation. So much of what Gary– I mean he put out a hundreds and hundreds of pages slide deck of his whole social media content model. That’s creation. He has cartoonists who draw cartoons of him for his Instagram. That’s creation. If you watch what Gary was doing on YouTube in 2009, 2010, 2011 it was a lot of just deliberate content aimed at creating valuable educational tools to help you grow your business. As he became more of a personality, and as he became more famous, he was able to then document more because people were interested in who he was because he had already helped them to such a point that they were more interested in him, which is sort of the whole phrase, “people don’t care about you until they know how much you care about them.”
There can be more of a balance. And so, for example, one of the ways that I like to document is in my Instagram stories and I don’t even do it that much. I usually do Q &A’s in there ’cause education and there’s also entertainment value in there. But, if you like, one way to document is to do it on your Instagram stories, show people where you’re going, like what you’re doing, what you’re up to, what your workouts are like, and educate more on your feed. Doing more creation posts, infographics, tweets, videos, whatever it is. I think the purpose, and we sort of titled it “create, don’t document,” but it doesn’t have to be either-or, a mix of the two is probably where you’re going to get the best benefit.
I think was really important for me to get across here is I hated vlogging. Every minute of it. I really did not like it. I tried it for several months and then I realized it wasn’t for me. So, the point being, try things, see what you enjoy, and when you’re really– if you really are focused on reaching a bigger audience, focus on ways that you can educate them. And if you can educate them while you’re documenting, amazing, that’s fantastic. But really do the thing that you enjoy most in a way that’s going to help the most people.
Mike: [01:16:03] Very well said, Jord.
Jordan: [01:16:05] Thanks man. Anything you wanna add?
Mike: [01:16:10] Um, two, two quick points: I think in addition to what you just said, that Gary created first and then documented and people cared about him first and then wanted to consume his, maybe more sporadic, maybe less direct value type of content where he was documenting is because they already knew him as a personality and knew that he cared about them. He’s also elite, like 99.99th percentile charismatic. And so, when I think of create and document, I think of entertain– or, sorry, create, educate, document, entertain.
Jordan: [01:16:57] It’s a good distinction.
Mike: [01:16:58] And there’s obvious– there can be overlap both ways, but the people who can get away with doing a lot of documentation might be very funny, very good looking, very charismatic, very like of a, of a certain way where people will consume whatever they put out, regardless of what type of content it is. Just because it’s about them.
Jordan: [01:17:26] Yeah.
Mike: [01:17:26] The, over– for the overwhelming majority, that’s not the case. And, um, not only that, but the content that you create is going to lead to the type of people who want to become coaching clients. Like someone who might think that you’re really good looking, they might end up being a coaching client, but they have a far lower chance of being a coaching client than someone who is listening to you tell them, uh, you know, giving them strategies to help them with their binge eating.
Like, those are two fundamentally different people consuming your content on average. Um, I had one other thought in that regard. Uh, for me personally, when I have hit, like, call it creative dry spells, call it lack of motivation, whatever, not putting out content. Documenting is the best way for me to get my foot back in the game.
And that goes back to the, something is always better than nothing when it comes to putting, putting stuff out. The first time I did 75 Hard, I’m on day 28 of 75 Hard right now, but the first time that I did it, part of the reason I did it was just so that I could talk about what I was doing. There was an element of, of, uh, the mental toughness and attitude associated with it that I was trying to cultivate within me.
That was, that was it at its foundation. But my excitement around, and then I can just make content around this. Questions will arise from this. And based on those questions, I can be doing Q & A type stuff, I can be doing more creative type content. Using documentation as a way to kind of get back in it was useful for me.
Jordan: [01:19:17] That’s a great, that’s a great point. That might be a really good way for people to get into making more content, which is, if you’re training to improve your chin up or you are going to do a powerlifting competition, or whatever, whatever you’re training to do, document it. Take videos of your lifts. Explain, like, what you’re doing, why you’re doing it.
Explain the technique behind it. If you had a bad day at the gym, talk about it. Explain it. If you feel fat one day, talk about it. If you’ve lost weight, talk about it. You know, if you look at my Big Mac challenge, it’s a mix of document and create. I documented my days eating the Big Macs, I documented how I was feeling. There was a scene in there where Mike was joking around while I had diarrhea. It was a– but there is also a lot of education and a lot of creation in terms of what specifically the message I wanted to get across was how I wanted to frame it, the different discussions. It was a mix of both and the whole point of that being, if you’re– take people on your journey. But use that journey to educate.
I think a lot of people, it’s very interesting to break it down like this, I’ve never spoken about it this in-depth, but when a lot of people really document, they make it the “look at me show,” but when you can turn documentation into the, “here’s how I can help you show,” it now becomes much more enjoyable for me and much more, um, effective means of creating content that can help people on a large scale basis, especially when you don’t have a large audience to begin with. If you already have a large audience and people who love you, you, you can do a lot there. You already have the eyeballs on you and there’s a lot you can do when you don’t have much and you don’t have as many people.
If you’re just starting off with a “look at me show,” oftentimes they’re like, “well, who is this?” “Like, why are you making this?” But if you start off with “hey, like here’s what I’m doing and hopefully it will help you,” which goes back to that, which, by the way, if you haven’t gotten our free manual, like 30 ways to become a better personal trainer and build your online personal training business, one of them is to– actually, I got an email about this, one of them is to use more of the word “you” and less of the word “I.” Someone emailed us basically being– the link to that manuals, by the way, in the show notes, if you want, it’s a free manual. Um, someone emailed saying, “well, what did you mean by that?” Maybe we didn’t explain it clearly enough, but basically if in your content you’re saying the word “I” more than you’re saying the word “you,” you’re talking more about yourself than you are about the person reading it. And it’s a really quick audit. Just go through your content and look at your captions and read your– watch your videos and like count how many times you say the word “”I have versus how many times you say the word “you” and you’ll very quickly see if you’re talking about yourself more, or the person who is consuming your content, more. So even if you’re documenting what you’re doing, if you’re, “Hey, here’s my journey to a 200-pound deadlift,” right? Like I, literally, one of my article series years and years ago when I was working up to a four times bodyweight, deadlift was my road to a four times body weight deadlift.
And I documented a lot of workouts doing that. And I remember, uh, I remember there was one guy specifically, Steven Musumish, commented being like, “I can’t believe you’re giving this away for free. I love following this.” I remember that was years ago, was like six, seven years ago. But the reason I think it was so valuable, it’s not just because it was showing the workouts, but I was explaining, “Hey, here’s how you can modify the workout if you need to do this, or whatever it is, and here’s the technique, here’s the sets and reps,” making it applicable for whoever was watching.
Mike: [01:22:47] Yes. Yes, you were documenting your journey, but simultaneously helping anyone who was along for the ride. And you mentioned Guzman– in recent, like in the last year or two in his Summer Shredding vlogs, he does, he did a lot more of, from what I saw, like a grocery run or talking about his macros or talking to what strategies to improve satiety while keeping calories in a certain range. Like there was more of that, which, which was interesting because there were a lot of comments like, “we get it, we get it. We don’t care about macros.” Like they wanted to see the lifestyle stuff, which goes back to the difference between somebody who, like, what is the end goal? Do you want to grow a clothing business or do you want to literally be the best coach you can be? And, and the type of content that you’re gonna make can be geared toward either.
Jordan: [01:23:47] And there’s no right or wrong. The only one who can answer that is you.
Mike: [01:23:50] Exactly.
Jordan: [01:23:51] It’s really, really important and that’s why you have to be honest with what your goal is. Do you want to be– and this is something, you know, I don’t pass my judgment on anybody and I think it’s important for you to choose what you want to do. I see a lot of people struggling in the fitness world when they’re posting like, their clothing hauls or their makeup routines or the hair stuff or whatever it is, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But then those same people will come and ask us like, well, “why isn’t– why aren’t I selling my coaching programs,” it’s like, because you’re talking about your beauty makeup and because your clothing and whatever it is. Speak about what you want to help people with. And like Mike said earlier, the content that you make will dictate who your content– who your clients become.
And I think we spoke about this in the last episode. Someone left a really nice comment basically to the effect of there’s a lot of, uh, issues trying to find your niche, right? Well, what niche– who’s my avatar? And we spoke about this in the last episode, ad infinitum definitely listened to it, but a lot of stress is taken off your shoulders when you realize all you have to do is post about what you’re passionate about and what you want to help people with. And the people who don’t care about it won’t listen, they won’t subscribe, they won’t be a client. The people who do will, and that’s extraordinary.
Mike: [01:25:13] Very well said. Jord. This was a fun podcast. I had a great time talking with you.
Jordan: [01:25:16] 12:46 AM. This is good. This was fun.
Mike: [01:25:21] This was awesome.
Jordan: [01:25:22] We hope you enjoyed the episode. Is there anything you want to end with?
Mike: [01:25:25] I don’t think that there’s anything I want to end with. I’m, I’m hesitant to sell– we’re in the middle of the launch for the mentorship and in an episode where we spend 15 minutes talking about death and the more deep subjects of that nature, I’m, I don’t want to sit here and, and yell at you to join the mentorship, even though I think it, it’s going to be an amazing year and I think we can help you a lot, but I’m…
Jordan: [01:25:54] We’ll end it here. We’ll call it.
Mike: [01:25:56] Yeah.
Jordan: [01:25:56] If you want to, go to the link in the description, if not, we hope you enjoyed the episode. If you did, please leave a five-star review and we would appreciate it. If you didn’t, leave a one-star. Obviously, that would suck for us, but tell the truth and, uh, I’m going to go to bed.
Mike: [01:26:09] I’m gonna go to bed too. Hour-twenty in. Thank you very much for listening. We appreciate you. We love you. We hope you have a good day. Goodbye.
Jordan: [01:26:16] Talk to you soon.
