0:00:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.0 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael Vacanti?


0:00:16.7 Mike Vacanti: Just a mid-launch form. We are in the middle of a launch.


0:00:21.4 Jordan Syatt: We’re gonna jump right into it. Today, I do have one thing that I’ll talk about after this, but quick reminder, by the time you hear this, there will probably only be 48 hours left to get the Online Fitness Business Mentorship to join us for $200 off, okay. We’ve sent you a couple of emails, we’ve sent to a couple of videos, if you’ve been listening this show for a while. We’re not gonna go off on a massive rant here, you know what it is. If you want to build your online coaching business, whether you’re a complete beginner, you literally have no coaching experience, no clients, no nothing or you’re already making a considerable amount of money, but you’re looking for ways to improve your systems, to improve your coaching methods. It’s for everybody.


0:01:00.3 Jordan Syatt: We have tons of courses, we have a lot more coming in the coming year, we have challenges every month. If you want some accountability, maybe you’re sitting at home, and you’re like, “well, I don’t know where to begin,” this is where you begin, and we will tell you exactly what to do. So there’s no thinking, there’s no guess work, there’s no ambiguity, just like your clients need a program in order to improve, you need a program in order to improve. And even if you don’t sign up with us, we hope you sign up with someone reputable and someone good to help you improve your business. Obviously, we think we’re the best at this, which is why we do it, otherwise, that would be sort of weird if we were doing this and we didn’t think we were the best, right?


0:01:31.0 Jordan Syatt: “Yeah, we’re sort of alright.” We think our system is the best, and if you wanna get it for $200 off, go to the link in the show notes, sign up right now, about 48 hours left for you to join the Online Fitness Business Mentorship for $200 off. Anything you wanna add to that Mike or…


0:01:45.2 Mike Vacanti: Just very excited and hopeful that… We’ve had many sign-ups already, and anyone else who, if this is speaking to you, we are very excited to see you on the inside in the Mentorship group.


0:01:58.0 Jordan Syatt: I learned how to stop on my roller blades today, like a cool stop.




0:02:01.7 Mike Vacanti: What’s a cool stop? Like a hockey stop?


0:02:06.4 Jordan Syatt: Like a Mighty Ducks hockey stop. Yeah, yeah.


0:02:10.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.


0:02:10.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, before we got on Mike was like, “Yeah, you know what, maybe we’ll just go right into the episode,” and in my head, I was like, “No way, I’ve gotta tell him this,” ’cause Mike was a hockey player. Mike is a legit hockey player. So yeah, I YouTubed it. Well, I haven’t YouTubed it yet, I recorded it. I got two like hours of footage, I followed a YouTube tutorial.


0:02:30.4 Mike Vacanti: Got it.


0:02:31.4 Jordan Syatt: And it was a three-step tutorial, this guy with a super funny accent, very old school style…


0:02:35.8 Mike Vacanti: Canadian?


0:02:39.1 Jordan Syatt: Sounded like Norwegian-ish.


0:02:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:02:42.9 Jordan Syatt: Like Swedish, Norwegian. Who knows maybe… I don’t think he was Canadian.


0:02:46.8 Mike Vacanti: No, a lot of good hockey in Northern Europe.


0:02:48.6 Jordan Syatt: It was funny, he was like, “I’m not a professional.” He was like, “I really learned how to do this from other YouTube videos, so hopefully this helps you.” And it was a three-step video, and I got through it in about… I don’t know, probably about 75 minutes and by the time 75 minutes was up, I was doing it, I’m stoked.


0:03:05.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome. Good for you, man. What kind of stop is it?


0:03:09.2 Jordan Syatt: So there were three progressions. The first one was like the basic drag slide where you drag one foot behind you, the issue with that is, there are several issues, obviously, wear out the wheels, number one. And then number two is you don’t stop immediately, it takes like 10 feet, and that’s if you’re going pretty slow. So that was the first progression, he was like, “Alright, this is what you start with,” then it was the basic power slide, which is like where… I mean basic power stop, where you basically, you carve really… Like you’re carving, so you do a sharp stop, but it’s not just sharp, you do like a U-curve as tight as you can with just your outside foot or with both. So it’s just the outside foot is the first progression, so you just do the outside foot and then you gradually point the inside foot inward to get it to stop more quickly. And then the next halfway progression was to combine the drag slide with that one, so you can combine the two together, which I liked a lot.


0:04:16.7 Mike Vacanti: Smart, smart. I see.


0:04:18.4 Jordan Syatt: And then the last one, he called it like the power slide, where it’s like you’re going straight on and then you start going backwards, and then from going backwards, you slide into this… Like you stick your back foot out, it wasn’t like the hockey stop. It was like this weird backwards to super sick power slide that I was…


0:04:41.7 Mike Vacanti: I can’t wait to see the video.


0:04:43.2 Jordan Syatt: I hope it’s good ’cause our history with my video editing where I show you, I’m like, “Yeah, dude. Check this out!” [laughter] And it just looks like a middle school…


0:04:52.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s not true. That happened once.


0:04:53.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s getting better.


0:04:56.5 Mike Vacanti: That happened once and the next time you showed me I was actually very impressed.


0:04:58.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, this next video, I have timed the intro, all the beats with the changes in the… And trying to be Casey Neistat-esque. But, it’s good. I’m stoked.


0:05:07.2 Mike Vacanti: You timed the music with what’s happening in the video?


0:05:11.1 Jordan Syatt: Trying… Very much trying.


0:05:12.0 Mike Vacanti: And you’re having fun with it?


0:05:13.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m really enjoying it. I’m really enjoying the creative process and the… It’s making me more passionate about making content, which I’m excited about.


0:05:24.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome. Good for you, man. And how did it feel? Did you fall at all doing this, were you on by the highway or…


0:05:31.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, I was right by the West Side Highway. I almost fell a couple of times, there were a couple of close calls. There were no full-on falls. I also… I wasn’t going top speed, I feel like that would be a really stupid idea to go top speed…


0:05:49.3 Mike Vacanti: When you’re just learning, yeah.


0:05:51.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so no full… There were a couple of slips. At one time I fell, but it was just because I was trying to set my camera up properly in a snow bank, and I literally fell into the snow, and I’m sure a bunch of the onlookers were like, “What an idiot.”




0:06:04.5 Mike Vacanti: Like, “This guy is trying to be an influencer on his roller blades.”




0:06:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Literally, fell in…


0:06:11.2 Mike Vacanti: Get rid of the camera.


0:06:12.5 Jordan Syatt: Like trying to set the camera up, ’cause there’s snow everywhere. There’s snow all over the place, so it was hard to find a wide expanse of pavement to actually do it, and so finally I found just wide enough… That’s what she said. Just wide enough, but as I was putting it into the snow bank, it was soft snow and then fell right in. That’s… Yeah. [laughter]


0:06:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Good for you, man, sounds like you’re having a great time with it.


0:06:38.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:06:40.5 Mike Vacanti: Will the ultimate end destination of this be like A, fun; B, faster transportation; C, extra cardio? Or are you gonna take this to, “Okay, I’ve gotten to 90% mastery on these skates again, now, give me a stick and a puck and let me take it to another level.”


0:07:02.8 Jordan Syatt: So I think I wanna take it to the next level. My first thought before the stick in the puck was dropping in on a ramp.


0:07:10.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, oh, you’re going to like X-game style?


0:07:12.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I mean…


0:07:13.3 Mike Vacanti: Got it.


0:07:13.4 Jordan Syatt: I’m… I don’t…


0:07:15.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s just a different thing to do on skates.


0:07:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, I mean I would love to play hockey, I think that’d be cool, but I’ve always wanted to learn how to drop in on a ramp and I… Dude, I just got a GoPro production. Did I tell you that? I got a GoPro?


0:07:29.4 Mike Vacanti: You told me you were gonna get one.


0:07:30.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I just ordered it yesterday. So I feel like I gotta do some cool X-games stuff.


0:07:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Parkour.




0:07:39.9 Mike Vacanti: With the GoPro on, that’d be awesome.


0:07:41.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:07:42.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m partial to hockey for obvious reasons, but the one vain, shallow, like revenge quality is that Jordan convinced me to do Jiu-Jitsu with him multiple times and owned by soul, so I would like the opportunity to just…


0:08:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Own my soul. [laughter]


0:08:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Have you one-on-one on a tennis court or something and… Yeah.


0:08:03.5 Jordan Syatt: Well, we did do that in Gary’s basement when he had the knee hockey.


0:08:07.0 Mike Vacanti: Bro, knee hockey is nothing like…




0:08:11.0 Jordan Syatt: It got intense though.


0:08:13.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.


0:08:14.9 Jordan Syatt: Alright, should we jump into this? How to get more online coaching clients pyramid part two?


0:08:19.2 Mike Vacanti: Let’s do it. So in the first episode and last episode, the first part of this two-parter, we talked about the three things at the base of this pyramid, which aren’t fancy lighting, they’re not like schnazzy sales copy tactics, they’re not like networking or MLM or whatever, having an eight pack or 40-inch quads. Number one is knowledge, number two is experience, and number three was actually being a good coach. And then running along the entire side of this pyramid, just a real quick review for anyone who may have missed or forgotten last week, consistency/patience. Because you can do any of these things, you can study your butt off for a month, you can get a month-long internship, you can do anything for a short amount of time, and it would be beneficial, but without continuing, you’re not gonna see the benefits.


0:09:18.5 Jordan Syatt: And for anyone who by chance didn’t listen to last week’s episode, we know the first few foundational blocks might sound boring and like you’re not gonna learn anything, strongly recommend going back to lesson 2. In the same way your clients might want the best supplements or the craziest high intensity training program, you know it really boils down to them really internalizing and understanding the basic foundational principles. Go listen to the last episode, we promise you’re gonna like it and you’re gonna hear some things that really stand out to you that help you with your business.


0:09:54.0 Jordan Syatt: So yeah, just go listen to the last episode for sure.


0:09:56.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, diving into this one. The fourth tier here actually has two things on it, and the first of those two are website and email list. You wanna start on this one while I get some light on my end?


0:10:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I was gonna say it is… I cannot see you at all, it’s pitch black on the screen. It’s funny, any time Mike and I would work together in his apartment, he’d close all the blinds and it would just be super dark inside, and I am the opposite, I really like to have sunlight pouring in on me. You’re turning on the lights still? Yeah, Mike is turning on the lights.


0:10:38.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m trying.




0:10:39.2 Mike Vacanti: I was really locked into this podcasting position.


0:10:44.2 Jordan Syatt: I’ll just keep talking while Mike is going to turn on the lights in his bedroom. Okay, so I believe Mike said the fourth tier that we came up with was website and email list. I’ll start off by talking about… There goes the lights. I’ll start off by talking about website. I think if I had to choose one or the other, I would choose website. I think they’re both equal, but we’re gonna start with website. The reason that we decided to put this here, we actually thought this would be somewhat common knowledge, just like we would have thought that everyone would have a website. ‘Cause when Mike and I first got into the online fitness industry, not when we got in the fitness industry, but the online world, Instagram didn’t exist.


0:11:31.3 Jordan Syatt: Really the main way that people had their business was through their website. We would read articles on really world-renowned coaches on their websites, and that was it. I remember checking on a daily basis the three to five people who have read all the time, checking to see, did they publish a new blog, did they publish something new, did they publish something new. And that was just common knowledge, because that’s where all business took place, then as more short form, fast, in your face, social media came out, fewer and fewer people started to make websites.


0:12:07.7 Jordan Syatt: I also think it’s an interesting aspect of behavior and possibly psychology here, because as Instagram came out and got more popular and more and more people decided they wanted to be an online coach, it became easier just to put in your Instagram profile, online coach, but the step of making a website, it takes time. It’s not easy, it’s not easy to make a website. For whatever it’s worth we have an entire course in the Mentorship on basically website fundamentals, everything you need to know, everything that Mike and I have done, everything that we recommend, all the Mentorship members do. So if you struggle with making a website, join the Mentorship, it’s $200 off for the next two days but…


0:12:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, when we were planning this episode and talking about website, and I was like, “Oh, we should talk about this, we should talk about this, we should talk about this within the website,” and you were like, “That’ll take two hours. We’ll literally be redoing the entire course we already have on the website.” And I was like, “Oh yeah, that’s true.”


0:13:04.1 Jordan Syatt: So we’re just gonna keep it brief and say, it’s critically important for you to have a website, and you’ll notice if you’re looking at this pyramid, it’s more important than social media. We are putting website and email list as more of a foundational principle than social media. There are many, many reasons for that. Not least of which being, most people who will find you, they’re gonna go to your website. The people who are gonna wanna work with you, they’re gonna go to your website, and I can’t believe how many times mentorship members have said this, and how many people have said this to me, where they… As soon as they had a website that people could go to and read more about them and read their long-form articles, that’s when they started getting more online coaching clients. It’s like if you just have an Instagram page or a Facebook or a YouTube or a podcast, but there’s no central landmark for people to go look you up and see what you do, you’re setting yourself for a huge disadvantage. Not to mention if we’re talking basic systems…


0:14:08.2 Jordan Syatt: If you just have an Instagram page, you don’t have any systems. You could just say, “Email me here.” That’s fine. Yeah, you can say, “Email me here,” but on your website, you can have forms that people can go and they can fill out a form that you make yourself, have questions that you can ask them in the form, they can go right through and then it goes into a separate folder in your email list, so you can go through and organize your potential clients one by one, rather than just having a huge mash of people DM-ing you, messaging you, tweeting at you, doing all this other stuff. If you have a website, you have systems and you have an About Me page, you have your articles, you have all this stuff right there.


0:14:43.0 Jordan Syatt: So your website is… If you haven’t done it yet, make a website, that is the most important thing. And if you have any questions on how to make a website, we understand. It is incredibly difficult and complicated to make a website, you go on Google, like, “How to make a website,” how many millions of search terms are come up and how many different recommendations, which is why we made an entire course on that in the mentorship, explaining what tabs you should have in your website, how to write certain pages of your website, what forms you should have on your website. Literally, if you don’t know how to do it, this is gonna save you hours and hours and hours, and realistically, it’s probably just gonna encourage you to do it. I think how many times have people have probably known that they wanna make a website, but they don’t know where to begin so they don’t even do it at all. It’s like if you need to do something right now, it’s make your website, and even if you have a website, but it sort of sucks, doesn’t really look that good, it’s not really getting any new clients, maybe it’s… Sort of like you could be going…


0:15:39.4 Jordan Syatt: You could be on a train, but just ’cause you’re on a train doesn’t mean you’re going down the right track, doesn’t mean you’re going in the right direction, right? It’s like, if you don’t know what your website should look like, again, this is what we’ve outlined for you.


0:15:51.1 Mike Vacanti: Very well said, another advantage of website versus social media is that Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, anything you posted on any of these platforms one month ago, no one is going to find it. Unless you’re re-posting it on your story, unless you’re re-posting it on your feed, unless you’re retweeting something that you previously made, like these short form pieces of content are not ending up anywhere. And if you write a very good long form article, that is very likely to end up somewhere on Google in the future, meaning people are gonna search it out three months, six months a year, five years down the road, and new eyeballs are gonna end up on your website even when you’re not doing anything, from work that you put in four years ago, you’re gonna still be having new audience come in.


0:16:41.3 Mike Vacanti: And then like Jordan said on the system side of things, you actually have an onboarding process for new coaching clients, you actually have an email sequence that happens when someone opts in to your free workouts manual or whatever kind of giveaways that you have on your website, whatever cool, free things you’re giving away, that can lead to an email sequence, that can lead to someone being on your list and it’s leverage is what it really is. Social media is much more one-to-one, you need to continue to do the work linearly in the future to bear the fruit, whereas with a website or with a couple of other pieces of long-form content, but website articles specifically, the work that you put in, in the first year, the second year, the third year is gonna benefit you five, six, seven, eight years down the road. And that’s what makes it unique, and that’s why it is… That is one of the reasons why it is such an important foundation.


0:17:38.5 Jordan Syatt: And we’ll talk more about this, but the three places that people will actually dive deep into your content from months and years past are your website, your YouTube and your podcast. Those are the three places where… And keep in mind that there’s common similarity here, there are two similarities or two commonalities between each of these three. Number one is that they’re long form content, they’re not 60 seconds, so number one is they’re long form, whether it’s a long-form article, long-form YouTube video or long-form podcast, and the other is that they all have search engine optimization to it. They can all be found on Google.


0:18:17.7 Jordan Syatt: These are the most difficult pieces of content to make, they’re the most time consuming, they’re… Like making a website is difficult in and of itself, never mind writing an amazing 1800-2000 word article, but these are the things that really give you the most longevity in business. And it’s harder because you won’t see as immediate of an return on investment, like right away, but a year, two years, three years in… Mike and I joke about it all the time. This is why Mike doesn’t really need to post on social media anymore, because he spent years and years and years making a very well-designed website that has tremendous search engine optimization and allows people to find his articles on a daily, on an hourly basis, people who are just Google searching certain things.


0:19:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I haven’t posted anything new on my website since I don’t know when, and I’m still getting, I think it’s at least 1000 new visits a day from Google alone, and the other one that we mentioned before, like YouTube, website and referrals are what is currently running my entire coaching business. And those are all things that exist in these bottom four rungs of the pyramid, all below social media.


0:19:36.5 Jordan Syatt: So website, and then email list as well, and email list, this is… I said website first ’cause I truly do believe that website is, if we had to pick one, is more important, but realistically, they’re equally important and…


0:19:51.7 Mike Vacanti: They go hand in hand.


0:19:53.3 Jordan Syatt: They go hand… Yeah, it’s like a puzzle piece. They fit together. I would say the email list is critical for a number of reasons, not least of which… I’ll say it like this. I guarantee probably almost everybody, if not every single person listening has been like, “Oh, the algorithm,” at some point, “Oh, more and more people aren’t seeing my stuff.” And it’s like, “Yes, that’s true. That will happen on any social media platform that you use.” On your email list, you always have access to 100% of the people on your email list. It doesn’t mean everyone is gonna open every email, but if you need people to know something and you have an email list, you send them an email, it’s in their inbox, period, end of story, whereas like you could post the best piece of content in the world on social media, but maybe 10% of your audience will see it, maybe 15% if it’s a really, really outrageously good post that happens to hit at the right time.


0:20:56.0 Jordan Syatt: Like 100% of the people will have your email in your inbox. Doesn’t mean 100% of the people will open it, but could get close to it if you have a really great subject line, if you write great emails and they really trust you. So this is what’s really important. Remember, no matter what happens on social media, your email list is all… You own your email list, and that means that no matter what happens, you can send your audience an email and they will get it.


0:21:20.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, huge, absolutely huge. And you throw around 10, 15% numbers, those are maybe the numbers right now on certain platforms. Who is to say that those numbers even hold up, going forward?


0:21:34.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That was mainly just for Instagram. I mean, Facebook, it’s like 1%.


0:21:37.9 Mike Vacanti: Facebook’s even less, and these companies have various ways that they can monetize. And one of them is not giving organic reach on post, but instead incentivizing by not giving as much organic reach, incentivizing one to pay for new audience. So yeah, having an email list for that reason is massive, like the website to our course. We also have an entire course called Email List Essentials where we go over everything from the widgets you use, how to set up your email list. We talk about lead magnets, the best and worst types of lead magnets. And then one thing from the course that I really like that we can maybe jam on real quick here and give the people for free is the misuse of an email list by so many people. And what I mean by that is focusing a disproportionate amount of time on creating exclusive content for an email list of 71 subscribers or 133 subscribers or even 555 subscribers or 1300 subscribers, because that time is like, if you wanna set up a sequence, great. If you wanna shoot short emails to your email list when you make a new article on your website and you wanna push people there, if you wanna use it as a distribution platform, amazing. But when you’re still building your email list, it doesn’t make sense to focus a ton of time on creating original content for that list.


0:23:18.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, this is really important to understand, and I think this is… Mike and I keep an eye on the fitness business industry, and one thing that we see other fitness gurus and masterminds talking about is how email… We all agree that email is incredibly important. I don’t know anybody who… Any coach worth their salt or any business code for any business idea, any methodology worth their salt that disagrees that email is critically important. I think they all think that. I think some people think it actually to a fault where they think the email is the only thing that’s important. One of the issues we start to disagree with some people on is they start saying, “You need to email every day,” which isn’t necessarily bad, but what Mike is saying is if you spend a tremendous amount of time on an email list before your audience is large enough on email, you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage.


0:24:14.8 Jordan Syatt: Because if you have 72 people or 150 people or 500 people or 1000 people on your list, how many more people could you reach if you posted whatever information was in that email publicly on social media, on Instagram, on Facebook, on YouTube, on your podcast, whatever? And instead of just including it solely in that, what if you published it publicly on your social media platform and then sent an email to your list saying, “Hey, I’m not sure if you saw this, but I just published this video, this podcast, this Instagram post, this whatever, click here to go have a look.” This has a number of benefits, number one being, you’re still interacting with your email list, they like to hear from you. Number two is, if they didn’t see it on social media, well, now they’re gonna see it because they got it in your email, which is going to improve your engagement on social media. And then also it will allow everyone on your email list to get used to getting emails from you.


0:25:11.9 Jordan Syatt: If you just get people on your email list, but you’re never sending them an email, and then all of a sudden a year-and-a-half later, you’re like, “Hey, what’s up?” They’re like, “Who the hell is this person?” They don’t even remember signing up for your list. So this is one of the parts that we haven’t heard any other business coach really discuss is get your list, use it as sort of like an insurance policy to make sure you have access to everybody who enters their information into your email database. But I would say the earliest you should start making “exclusive content” for your email list is 3000 email subscribers. Like before 3000, send everybody to your website, to your podcast, to your YouTube, to your Instagram, and then at around 3000, then spending a little bit more time, if you want, sending exclusive content to your email list.


0:26:02.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s a great, great recommendation right around that number. One other thing on email list and how it ties into website, as soon as you have a website, sign up with an email service provider, MailChimp, AWeber. There’s various companies that do this. Many of them are free or very inexpensive early on when you’re below a threshold of subscribers, which is really cool. And then take the time to get your email list, your email service provider, synced up with your website. And here is why you should do that. Because in the year of 2012, I believe it was, what happened to you?


0:26:45.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so it’s funny. I’m not a big regret person, but anytime someone says, “What’s your biggest regret building your business,” this is it. This is my one biggest regret because everybody was telling me, “Get an email list, get an email list, get an email list,” like everybody, everyone smarter than me, everyone who owned a bigger business than me. And my young egotistical, cocky, obnoxious self was like, “Oh, I don’t need that. I have a great website, and if people want to figure something out, they just go to my website.” So I just didn’t get an email list. And also I was in college, and it cost like, I don’t know, I think it was $19.99 a month to have this email list, and I was like, “I’m not paying that. That’s ridiculous.” And what an idiot I was? Looking back, like 1999, are you kidding me? It’s so stupid. Imagine this. Imagine you got 100 people on your email list, which is not a lot, but 100 people when you start out. It’s amazing. Imagine if one of those people becomes an online coaching client for $200 a month because you sent out an email reminding them, “Hey, you have your online coaching,” whatever. Well, now you’ve just paid for your email list for years, right? Years. Just with that one client.


0:27:50.4 Mike Vacanti: Years, years. That client stays with you for four to six months. Yep. Years.


0:27:56.9 Jordan Syatt: So, yeah, it’s just stupid not to get one, but anyway, so I didn’t get it. And I wrote an article. It’s still available if you… I think if you Google search, “How to stay full on a calorie deficit,” my article will come up first. Do you wanna check that Mike right now and see? Google search, “How to stay full on a calorie deficit?


0:28:14.0 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:28:16.5 Jordan Syatt: When I published that article, I spent an unbelievable amount of time on this article. And when I published it, for whatever reason, I thought when I hit Publish, the moment I had Publish, I was just gonna get a flood of people being like, “This is the best thing ever.” Did it show up? Did you google it?


0:28:33.3 Mike Vacanti: I got some slow Internet here.


0:28:35.6 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay. And very few people responded to it, very few people liked it, very few people said anything about it. Several months later, out of nowhere, my website stopped working, like it shut down. And I was like, “What is going on?” And I realized that an author on this website called Lifehacker had shared that post basically saying, “Hey, if you struggle with staying full while you’re dieting, make sure you read this article.” He has a huge audience. He still follows me on Twitter to this day, and he sent… Literally, I looked on the back on my website, 24,000 people went to my website in that one day. Keep in mind, I maybe was having 20-30 people go to my website a day at that point, and a lot of them was my mom. And that was it. So to have 24,000 people go to my website, it literally shut down from the traffic. And I remember one of my buddies, Rog Law, Roger Lawson texted me, he’s like, “Man, you must be getting so many emails right now.” And I was sitting in my college dorm room, heart sunk. Just being like, “Dude, I don’t have an email list.” He was like, “What? Oh, my god.”


0:29:47.5 Mike Vacanti: I can just imagine his reaction.


0:29:48.0 Jordan Syatt: And Roger’s like the most is a positive, uplifting guy ever, and to hear that, I was just like, “Oh, this is not good.” And just thinking of how many people like I missed out on getting the opportunity to be able to have their information so I could reach out to them later, just a huge, huge mistake. And it also just goes to show, you never know what piece of content is gonna really go nuts for you. Not to mention, that’s another great example, it was a long-form article. I spent, I think, two weeks, making this article, researching it, writing it, making it look really good. And it wasn’t until months later that it went viral because someone shared it. That never happens on Instagram. You don’t share an Instagram post and then months later that post goes viral. It’s like, if it’s gonna go viral, it’s gonna go viral like that day, and that’s it.


0:30:32.1 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Dude, googling this is so cool for a reason that I had no idea was going to happen. Yes, you’re number one. “The Dieter’s Dilemma. How to Stay Full While Dieting.” That is by far the least cool part of this. Of the 10 people on here, they’re big websites.


0:30:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh my god, I know what you’re gonna say. [chuckle]


0:30:52.7 Mike Vacanti: MyFitnessPal, Healthline, POPSUGAR, these are massive websites, are three or four of the top 10. Then we have Syatt Fitness. Then we have Eric Roberts, Mentorship. Then we have… No, no, then we have Pete Cataldo, Mentorship. Then we have Jordan Lips, Mentorship. Huge shoutout Eric, Pete, Jordan…


0:31:11.0 Jordan Syatt: Wow! That’s so… I just got chills. My hair is standing up on my arm right now.


0:31:18.9 Mike Vacanti: So did I. So did I.


0:31:20.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s crazy.


0:31:23.1 Mike Vacanti: How nuts is that? Look at this.


0:31:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Can you imagine? Think about how many people are searching “How to stay a full on a calorie deficit” or something thing like that, and to have literally among MyFitnessPal, among Healthline, among POPSUGAR, we have me and then three people who are on the mentorship who just followed our advice and wrote long-form articles and guarantee you, they’re all getting online coaching clients from those articles.


0:31:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Man, that’s awesome.


0:31:49.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s awesome.


0:31:50.6 Mike Vacanti: I’m so pumped for those three, and you for holding that you… You still have that top spot, by the way, good work. April 21st, 2012.


0:31:56.7 Jordan Syatt: Join the mentorship, $200 off. Join the mentorship…


0:32:04.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s a no-brainer. I’m the worst salesman of all time, but if you’re a coach and wanna grow your online business, you have a couple more days to get it at a discount. Click the link in the show notes. Let’s go. Let’s get this started.


0:32:16.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and for whatever it’s worth, I wanted to say this earlier, I forgot. We’re talking about all the courses, and like Email List Essentials, and Building a Website and all this stuff and it sounds like a lot of information, and it is a ton of information. There is literally everything you need to know about how to build your online coaching business in the mentorship, in the courses. Keep in mind, one of the reasons that Mike and I guarantee a refund at the end of one year is because if you try, if you do what we say, if you try it for one year and you legitimately give it a shot, this is when we’ll give you a refund. And keep in mind, this has literally never happened.


0:32:58.2 Mike Vacanti: Correct.


0:32:58.9 Jordan Syatt: Because this is why we’re so confident is if you try everything that we say and you use all of our material after one year and you don’t make your money back that you spent on the mentorship, we’ll give you a full refund. And the reason we can do that so confidently is because no one has tried and not made their money back. Like it’s insane. And the thing is, again, this is a ton of information, and the reason we put the timeline on a year is because we don’t expect you to go through this in a week or a month, or two months, or six months and do it. It’s a year. There is so much information in there. There is so much to do, so much to study, so much to learn. If this was a three-month program, a four-month program, a five-month program, it wouldn’t be doing you justice. It wouldn’t be fair. This is a year long at least, and we’ve had many people in the mentorship for several years because they like the accountability, they like the Q&As several times a month, they like having the ability to interact with other people who are trying to build a business as well. I mean, it blows my mind that if you’ve been listening and you haven’t signed up for this discount, like, “What are you doing?” It’s crazy, crazy stuff.


0:34:08.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m with you, man. I’m with you. I could not be more with you. Okay, we really beat the drums on website and email list and for good reason because they’re extremely important, but we are now gonna move on to 4B. So this is on the other part of that same level on par with website and email list is long-form content.


0:34:31.1 Jordan Syatt: We don’t have to spend too much time on this. We’ve spoken about it ad infinitum, and we just sort of spoke about it just now. But long-form content… I’d say the three most important ones: Website, YouTube, podcast, they all take the most amount of time. I would say podcast is the only one of those three that can be done in the amount of time it takes to actually do it, if that makes sense. So for example, podcast, Mike and I do this podcast. We speak, that’s it, it’s done. And we have an audio engineer who makes it sound really nice, but you don’t even need to do that. We don’t really think too much about it. Sometimes we’ll plan ahead. For example, we planned ahead with this pyramid for how to get more online coaching clients, but it doesn’t take that much extra time. So from a long-form content perspective, I do think podcast is probably the easiest of the three in terms of planning, execution, editing, all that stuff. That being said, they’re usually at least an hour. It’s an hour of work just on this episode.


0:35:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Then on a YouTube video or a long-form article, those take time. And by time, it could be anywhere from one full… Literally, I would say at least 14-18 hours, one full day or it could be two, three, four, five, six, seven days. Could be two weeks, sometimes I would work on an article. And interestingly, I think that the YouTube and the website have the biggest potential to grow from SEO. Podcast does as well, but I think from a Google-able, if that’s a verb now, like a Google-able, people to find you on Google, YouTube and website are the best for sure.


0:36:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, the podcast SEO is newer, and I don’t know. Unless you’re really doing good things with a podcast website, I think the podcast SEO has to come from within Spotify, from within Apple Podcast app. The people who stumble across this podcast organically, usually say that they did so because it was a recommended podcast within the podcast app or because they were searching for something, become a personal trainer-related within the podcast app, not searching within Google. So yeah, YouTube and website are… And for good reason, like you mentioned, a really good long-form article probably takes close to 20 hours of hard work, whereas and a YouTube video, depending on the type of video, definitely not less than five total hours and usually quite a bit more than that. Whereas a podcast is quicker. But some combination of the above is the dream scenario. And I mentioned before, one of the benefits of having a website compared to social media SEO, that obviously stands here with all three of these types of long-form content.


0:37:36.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And I was about to go off in another rant, but we don’t need to long-form content, it’s the king, it just really… It’s the king. From a sustainable business perspective, like the gurus and masterminds would call it, evergreen. I just think sustainable is a better, more realistic word, like less obnoxious word.


0:38:02.4 Mike Vacanti: Did you always hate the word Evergreen or did you just in this moment, start hating it, ’cause I think I just witnessed a shift on a word.


0:38:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, as I was saying it I sort of threw up in my mouth. I was like, “Evergreen, urgh!” Like what is…


0:38:13.5 Mike Vacanti: You’re like, “Wait, I don’t like that word.”


0:38:17.9 Jordan Syatt: I don’t like evergreen. I’ve never liked passive income.


0:38:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:38:22.3 Jordan Syatt: I hate when people say, “Do you wanna make passive income?” Like, “Shut up, shut… ” I don’t like that, ’cause you know, “You wanna make passive income, I’m gonna try to sell you on something and really, hopefully you give me your money ’cause this isn’t gonna be passive. I promise you that.” Yeah. Okay, yeah, sorry. Next topic.


0:38:43.2 Mike Vacanti: Alright, so moving further up to the list…


0:38:47.2 Jordan Syatt: How’s this background look? Isn’t it cool? It looks like a fake background, but it’s actually the buildings behind me.


0:38:51.8 Mike Vacanti: It does, it does. It’s cool. Not very many lights on there, I wonder what the occupancy is like in New York City right now.


0:39:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Everybody left New York. I think the last I checked, it was like over 400,000 people, and not to mention, it’s also freezing cold.




0:39:08.8 Jordan Syatt: So I have a feeling like the pandemic combined with winter, like Manhattan is just empty.


0:39:17.3 Mike Vacanti: Especially with so many people having new opportunities to work remote in corporate type jobs.


0:39:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:39:22.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay, moving up the list. Number five, short-form content; Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. Why is short-form content less important than long-form content?


0:39:38.0 Jordan Syatt: Are you asking me why?


0:39:39.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, we wrote that in our note section.


0:39:42.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, got it. So I think we sort of just hit on why in the previous point, we don’t need to go off on it. So with all that being said on the previous point, short-form content still has massive, massive benefit and a tremendous amount of opportunity. Right off the top of my head, for the long-form content, we named, I can’t believe they came up on that first page, Eric, Jordan and Pete. That’s insane. They all came up on that. For short-form content, you know who comes to mind is Rachel?


0:40:08.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, yeah.


0:40:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, Beth too. Rachel, Beth, Carrie, these like short form content queens, just absolutely dominating. And Rachel, off the top of my head like she’s the perfect example of literally building it in a year while working another job, while having two kids, just like unbelievable. And she doesn’t do long-form content yet, and she knows what’s right for her. I know Beth, on the other hand, worked tirelessly, she literally shared a computer, I believe it was with her son when like… Before she had her own computer. And it took her like… How long did she say? Like a month, two months to write one article, ’cause she was sharing a computer with her son, but she still got it done. And Beth has a ton of online coaching clients right now, but the point here is, even though we think long-form content is better than short-form content, long-term, same thing with fitness and nutrition, something is better than nothing, and you can still make a tremendous amount of impact and build a tremendous business on your short-form content. We do think if you’re gonna do that, it would behoove you… I don’t know why I said behoove you, that’s something my mom would say, “It would behoove you.”


0:41:25.8 Jordan Syatt: It would be in your serious benefit over time to at least, at least do a little bit of long-form content. So while you’re cranking out your short-form content, just being a beast, like Beth and Carrie and Rachel and all these people, just dominating, maybe one long-form article every four to eight weeks. So by the end of a year, you’ve got 6-12 long form articles. That would be amazing, but to be candid and blunt and honest and straightforward, we have many people building unbelievable businesses and followings, almost solely from short-form content.


0:42:02.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna give one more shout out to Ben Cure who…


0:42:05.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, what a beast.


0:42:08.2 Mike Vacanti: Who… I don’t know if it was in the summer or last spring that he joined the mentorship, but I know it hasn’t been a year, somewhere in the six to nine month range, I wanna say off the top of my head. But he, I’m not gonna give any spoilers here on the winner of the January challenge, but let’s just say he’s very much in contention with 14 new online coaching clients during the month of January from his launch. And 11 of those 14 came from TikTok.


0:42:36.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, what a beast.


0:42:38.3 Mike Vacanti: Just nuts.


0:42:40.4 Jordan Syatt: And just to get some background on that. Like we’ve said in previous episodes, and when you look into the mentorship, we give challenges every month. So in the same way, every month you give your clients new workout programs, every month we give you new challenges, something to focus on and basically the sets and reps and you’re posting frequency that you should be doing on different platforms, and one of them was basically, we saw a tremendous amount of wide space on TikTok. And then went all in.


0:43:02.1 Mike Vacanti: Back in the summer, summer 2020. Yep.


0:43:08.2 Jordan Syatt: The two people that I think about for that challenge, and there were a bunch who crushed it, but Ben and Beth. Beth, I think has over 30,000 followers on there now. Eric Roberts, I think has over 200,000 followers on there now. Ben, I don’t know how many followers he has, but literally to get 11 clients from there in one month is insane.


0:43:27.7 Mike Vacanti: And I actually think that’s even cooler that he got 11 clients from TikTok because he didn’t win the TikTok challenge. His TikToks were really good, but it speaks to depth versus width in the type of content you’re making, right?


0:43:40.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:43:40.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s not like he needed a million on TikTok to get there, but he’s been consistent, he’s been putting out consistent helpful content across the board, across platforms, and to have 11 of his 14 come from TikTok is just… I guess, not surprising, but just cool.


0:43:57.7 Jordan Syatt: It also speaks to a lot of the people who are like, “Oh, I don’t wanna be on TikTok. It’s people who aren’t gonna buy from you. It’s younger kids.” It’s like, “You’re wrong, you’re wrong.”


0:44:07.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, these platforms age up.


0:44:09.8 Jordan Syatt: They age up and people are buying. They are. If the reason you’re not on TikTok is because you think people aren’t gonna buy, that’s a stupid reason and you’re wrong. If you’re not on TikTok ’cause you don’t like the platform and you don’t wanna use it, that’s another reason entirely, and that’s totally fine. If you’re not on TikTok ’cause you don’t need it. That’s totally fine as well. But for whatever it’s worth like TikTok, people are buying.


0:44:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Alright, short-form content. We’re moving up the pyramid. I like this one, and you said that you thought of this and you said it’s a little bit cliché, but let’s include it because it’s true and it’s be authentic.


0:44:50.5 Jordan Syatt: There’s a lot to unpack here, and I sort of hate the word ‘authentic now’, just based on what it’s become. ‘Cause everyone is always like hashtag authentic and vulnerability and they’ve sort of… It’s like sort of when people, they use the word so much it ruins the actual meaning of the word, but if you really look into the definition of authentic, and we take it out of society and how society is using it lately, it’s really…


0:45:18.5 Mike Vacanti: How it’s been used the last three to five years. Yep, yep.


0:45:25.3 Jordan Syatt: For whatever it’s worth, I think this is something that I struggled with for a long time earlier in my career, and especially if you look back at my old content from 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, you’re gonna see a very different content creator. And I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again, I was really trying to be like Eric Cressey. I was very much… Like that’s who I admired. And I think we tend to try to imitate those we admire. When we see someone that does something really well and we like it, then we want to be like that, and what that means, we wanna be like that for other people, like we want other people to admire us, and we want other people to be inspired by us.


0:46:04.5 Jordan Syatt: So that’s what I think that means, and it’s normal to… I think it’s normal to imitate to a certain point, and through imitation you develop your own style. But I think while you might be imitating others, I think it’s important for you to do your best to express who you really are, to express yourself, your true beliefs, your true opinions, and I get it’s unbelievably difficult, it’s incredibly… It can be very scary. I’ve spoken how I’ve struggled with this for a while, especially with the rise of cancel culture and all that stuff, but the one thing I’ve continuously found is, any time I have not been true to myself, I’ve regretted it.


0:46:50.9 Jordan Syatt: And any time I have been true to myself when I was worried about it, I’ve always been happy I did it. Any time I’ve been nervous about saying what I believe, I’ve been nervous about it, I always am happy that I do it. I always regret when I don’t do it, so it’s worth just really being yourself. And you know who I think about when I talk about this is Andy Tate in the Mentorship. Andy Tate, we had a big call with Andy, ’cause Andy won a recent challenge and he hadn’t really been posting on Instagram for a while, and he was really nervous and sort of the topic… We can talk about it. I don’t think he… ‘Cause he made a whole post about it, what he was really worried about was he had gotten some kick back from a couple of people in his immediate circle about talking about losing fat and if that is inherently fat-shaming or if that is like fat-phobic and he was worried about that.


0:47:44.7 Jordan Syatt: And basically by the end of the call, Andy was like, “You know what, you guys are right,” and Andy went on his page and he was like… He literally wrote on his page, “If you have kids in the car or anything, tell them to put their headphones on ’cause I’m about to swear,” but basically, he wrote for his first post back, he was like, “Listen up all your mother fuckers, here’s what I’m about to say.” And he just went in, and that post got more engagement than any of his other posts ever, and people were so taken aback in the best way possible at how authentically him he was being.


0:48:18.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s a great example. That was a great post. Two things came to mind on be authentic. The first one, Gary’s advice to us in Florida, when… Remember it was like… Something along the lines of, “I don’t know what to post”. He’s like, “Say that.”


0:48:37.7 Jordan Syatt: Say that. [laughter]


0:48:37.9 Mike Vacanti: And it’s like, “But I’m feeling like this”. And he’s like, “Say that.” And then I remember…


0:48:42.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s one of my favorite memories. Yeah.


0:48:45.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, and I did at the time post that and got insane engagement, which I still to this day hate that I liked, but whatever. An example for me on be authentic is genuinely telling the truth in all circumstances within your business, and the specific example is someone reaches out to you in their new client coaching application form, and they give you their information and their goals, and in their goals, they’re like, “I wanna lose 30 pounds of fat in four to six weeks, I wanna have a six-pack by summer in three months, I want… ” And they’re 510, 250 we’ll say, and if you come back, ’cause there are many coaches and you can even rationalize in your mind like, “Okay, we can do rapid fat loss.


0:49:37.9 Mike Vacanti: We could really get close to this,” and rationalize that you are telling them the truth, rationalize that it is a good idea, rapid fat loss really works for some people and come back and tell them what they wanna hear, that’s inauthentic and it’s gonna lead to a worse… It’s gonna lead to a worse future for the potential client, it’s gonna lead to worse interaction between the two you, which is gonna make coaching experience worse for you, which is gonna make it like the client will resent you, just not a good situation.


0:50:05.2 Mike Vacanti: This can all be avoided by saying… And by the way, when you say this, the client will respect you more, is probably more likely to sign on with you by saying, “Hey, just so you know, I know there’s tons of fitness marketing out there, I know when you check out at grocery stores, you see that you can lose a 100 pounds in a month, but 30 pounds in four to six weeks isn’t happening. And the only way it would happen was X, Y, Z, but it’s not sustainable, it’s not gonna lead to an optimal physique. Here is the rate of fat loss that we can expect, this is also gonna help you maintain muscle in the process. Here is how it’s worked for other clients of mine, just wanted to lay that out there because I don’t want you to have improper expectations heading into this.” Every single time I’ve ever said this, I’ve been met with like, “Oh, thank you so much for telling me.” Like, “Okay, yeah, I guess I know it’s gonna take a long time, but cool, let’s do this.” But I know… Because even the temptation has been there for me in the past, and I’ve seen it so much, the temptation to be dishonest, to be inauthentic in attempt to “get a client” out of a scarcity mindset is just telling the truth and being authentic in that situation is better morally and is better for business, for getting new online coaching clients.


0:51:23.2 Jordan Syatt: Not to mention, just to add on to that real quick, if you have a client or a potential client, who’s like, “Hey, I wanna lose 30-40 pounds in the next six weeks,” and you’re like, “Alright, sick. Let’s do it.” And then four to six weeks comes by and they’ve lost, I don’t know, four, five, six, seven pounds, which is amazing, and they’re livid because they didn’t lose however much they wanted to lose, well, then they’re gonna go back in their email and screenshot and say, “Well, hold on, you said, let’s do it like we can do this.” Versus the opposite scenario.


0:51:53.4 Jordan Syatt: Let’s say they email you, “I wanna lose 30 to 40 pounds in the next six weeks.” And then you say, “No, no, no, no, no, that’s not gonna work.” Like, “That’s stupid. Let me tell you why. I still wanna work with you, I think you’re great, but we gotta have your expectations in check.” Then in four to six weeks when they come back and say, “What the hell, I thought we were gonna lose this much weight.” You can go back and screenshot and say, “You stupid, stupid, lovable individual that I love so much. I told you before you paid me that that was not a good idea, and you were like, ‘You’re right, that makes sense.'” And that’s another… We talk about that in the systems aspect of the mentorship like ad nauseam, just beyond anything you could ever imagine in terms of understanding client communication and systems in psychology, but that’s one important reason to keep all your stuff via email and to be honest and authentic about it rather than try and just get them in to make a quick buck.


0:52:43.3 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Alright, top of the pyramid for how to get more online coaching clients, and this… We’ll caveat and say this isn’t a completely comprehensive pyramid. There could be things outside of the scope of this, that if we really tried to think of every single element, we might have skimmed over, but these are all of the nuts and bolts, and at the top of the pyramid is to help people for free.


0:53:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and boy oh boy, do the gurus really hate this one. The gurus hate when we say help people for free, ’cause the gurus what they love to say is that you should never devalue your service by giving anything away for free. And it’s like, “You’re an idiot.” Like you’ve literally never coached anybody, you started a business teaching people how to build an online personal training business when you never even train anybody anyway, or had a business like, “Shut the fuck up.”


0:53:42.2 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:53:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Like, “Shut up, that’s ridiculous.” Giving stuff away for free is… I feel like this is the start of a new pyramid, I feel like this is the foundation of a new… We covered one foundation, and that was like one side of the bottom of the house, and now we’re starting the new side of the bottom of the house, and this is giving it away for free, right?


0:54:06.5 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Yep.


0:54:08.8 Jordan Syatt: And I’ll say this, if you’re crushing it and you have client requests and you’ve got a waiting list and you’re doing great, you don’t… It’s not like we’re telling you to give stuff away for free now, you don’t have to do that at this point, but if you…


0:54:25.1 Mike Vacanti: But coaching, because you’re still giving content away for free.


0:54:28.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Content and all that, that’s all the way for free, but starting with giving coaching, if you don’t have as many coaching clients as you want or any, and you’re not making as much money as you want or any, and you’re in the mindset of, “I don’t wanna devalue my service,” you are so far out of your scope of reality, like you are so clouded, it’s miraculous to me that… It’s insane that someone could possibly think that when you don’t have the amount of paying clients that you want. You haven’t earned it, you don’t have anything that can be devalued, you don’t have anything yet. So what are you talking about? And there are so many reasons why coaching people for free can help, but not least of which, number one, I think the foremost reason coaching people for free can help is if you don’t have any coaching clients, well, that means that you’re probably not a good coach yet. Just straight up, if I’m being honest, if you don’t have any or that many coaching clients, it means you haven’t coached that many people, so just based on the number of hours you could have possibly spent coaching, you still suck.


0:55:38.4 Jordan Syatt: And keep in mind, I still have a tremendous amount to learn as a coach, I’m always learning, and I’ve been doing this for over a decade. So if you’ve been doing this for six months or less or a year or two years, and you think that you’re a world-renowned coach, you suck. Just straight up. And I say that would love, but you do. And so getting people for free will give you an opportunity to improve your coaching skills, improve your coaching methods and build systems that work without having other people have an expectation of, “Well, I paid you, so this should already be done.”


0:56:09.8 Jordan Syatt: There’s a lot of a low stress here because you’re taking them on for free so you can build your systems at scale while you’re working with them for free. And then if they get great results, now they’re gonna refer people to you, they’re gonna tell their clients, they’re gonna tell their friends, their family, their colleagues, they’re gonna post on their social media, “Oh my god, thank you so much to my coach so-and-so for helping me lose five pounds over the last 10 weeks. I feel amazing.” And then someone is gonna message you, “Hey, I saw you were working with so-and so, they look great. How much do you charge for coaching?” And it’s like then you can say, “Yeah, I charge… ” whatever you want, if you want to try charging more, then go for it, but… I still coach people for free.


0:56:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:56:49.8 Jordan Syatt: I still have clients that I coach for free.


0:56:52.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you’re… Great rant. Great rant. Becoming a better coach through coaching is probably the top reason, referral/potential, progress pictures which are the best form of marketing for online coaching is another window. Then you have within the realm of becoming a better coach, helping you develop your online coaching systems because being a good online… We’ve mentioned the interplay between in-person coaching and online coaching. You can be a great in-person coach, but transitioning to online, there are other skill sets, there’s other things you’re going to learn and develop through coaching people online, you get better in that capacity and… Yeah. I don’t wanna just talk for the sake of talking, but you hit the nail on the head pretty effectively with why we both recommend coaching people for free and helping people for free, because it has… We’ve seen so many people be successful, including both of us in the last 5-10 years.


0:58:01.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, that’s it.


0:58:05.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s it. That’s the pyramid.


0:58:07.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s the pyramid. So listen, you know, we’re gonna finish this off with a pitch, like you got two days left, two days left to join the Online Fitness Business Mentorship for $200 off. I don’t think we need to go into more in-depth than we’ve already discussed this whole episode.


0:58:22.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, sign up.


0:58:24.6 Jordan Syatt: Sign up…


0:58:24.8 Mike Vacanti: We would love to see you in there. And we hope to see you in there.


0:58:29.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s it.


0:58:31.1 Mike Vacanti: Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next week. We’ll be back with a real good episode.


0:58:35.0 Jordan Syatt: Have a wonderful day.

0:58:36.8 Mike Vacanti: Bye.

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