0:00:09.4 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.
0:00:12.5 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael?
0:00:13.4 Mike Vacanti: Take two.
0:00:14.2 Jordan Syatt: Take two. Coffee machine went off.
0:00:16.1 Mike Vacanti: We have a very, very solid episode ahead. And because the questions are so good, we aren’t even gonna BS around, because that’s gonna happen naturally throughout this episode. We are just going to go straight in with a question that I know Jordan is gonna love.
0:00:30.2 Jordan Syatt: But I don’t know any of these questions coming. I am new to the podcast, I know none of the questions that Mike picks.
0:00:35.0 Mike Vacanti: Ever.
0:00:35.2 Jordan Syatt: Ever.
0:00:36.8 Mike Vacanti: He’s a P, I’m a J. Jordan, if you could only do three exercises for the rest of your life, what would they be?
0:00:45.9 Mike Vacanti: Aren’t you excited to answer this one?
0:00:47.8 Jordan Syatt: This is my least favorite… Or one of my least favorite questions.
0:00:56.0 Jordan Syatt: Is that a real question, or you just make that one up and knowing that I don’t like it?
0:01:00.5 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s a real question.
0:01:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Did someone actually ask that, or did you just say, “Hey, I’m gonna ask that.” [chuckle]
0:01:03.9 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, someone asked that.
0:01:04.6 Jordan Syatt: In the Q&A?
0:01:06.1 Mike Vacanti: Someone asked that, and when we were talking about it you said it, and I said, “This is a great question.” And you said, “This is… “
0:01:11.5 Jordan Syatt: The dumb question. I hate this question.
0:01:12.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you said it’s your least favorite question, so I thought it’d be a good one to kick things off.
0:01:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay, you’re really just trying to put me in a bad mood from the very… [chuckle]
0:01:26.9 Jordan Syatt: If I have to choose three exercises, I’ll call it…
0:01:29.9 Mike Vacanti: I can go first, ’cause I’ve thought about this.
0:01:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Okay, you think about it. You go first.
0:01:34.2 Mike Vacanti: So if you actually could only do three exercises for the rest of your life, otherwise, gun to your head, you can’t do anything else.
0:01:41.8 Jordan Syatt: Which I couldn’t imagine that situation in life, but okay. [laughter]
0:01:44.6 Mike Vacanti: There’s a lot of good fiction in life. It’s a fun logic puzzle, right?
0:01:48.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay.
0:01:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Because most people would just say they squat down the bench, or something to the effect of three compound moves and that’s it. But if you really think about it, getting the most bang for your buck out of those three movements is probably the number one thing you would want when selecting them.
0:02:06.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay.
0:02:07.8 Mike Vacanti: Here are the three.
0:02:09.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay.
0:02:09.5 Mike Vacanti: The first one’s an inverted row, because you can set the height of the inverted row wherever you want it, so you…
0:02:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow, so you’re including variations in this?
0:02:19.0 Mike Vacanti: So you can essentially… Of course.
0:02:21.0 Jordan Syatt: Well, that changes the whole synergy. [laughter] You could do different types of inverted rows. [laughter]
0:02:27.6 Mike Vacanti: So you can essentially make it a vertical, or a horizontal pull, and you can load it, alright?
0:02:34.6 Jordan Syatt: This isn’t just one exercise. [chuckle]
0:02:36.1 Mike Vacanti: Yes, it is. It’s an inverted row.
0:02:39.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay. The second movement would be a push-up, because it’s one of the few movements where… Like from a pike push-up, from feet on the wall, or however high you wanna put ’em, to a normal flat push-up and every incline and variation in between, with sandbag on back, you can basically get chest triceps and you can get your shoulders…
0:03:06.8 Jordan Syatt: So you have a sandbag as well?
0:03:10.1 Mike Vacanti: You have a whole gym. You have all of the weights on planet Earth, but you can only pick three exercises.
0:03:15.6 Jordan Syatt: Interesting, okay. Yeah. And what’s the third exercise? [chuckle]
0:03:19.6 Mike Vacanti: A Bulgarian split squat, just because I like it. I think it’s…
0:03:24.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you like Bulgarian split squats, like you enjoy doing them, or you just like how good it is?
0:03:28.3 Mike Vacanti: I like how good they make me feel after.
0:03:30.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.
0:03:33.3 Mike Vacanti: If you’re barbell back squatting, or deadlifting heavy, eventually you’re gonna run into tweaks, if you’re running the weight up, even with proper form. I never get banged up on most single leg movements.
0:03:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:03:45.1 Mike Vacanti: And here, you can make it glute hand dominant, you can go more upright, you can go goblet hold and make it more quad, you can do different things with it. You can offload it. You can…
0:03:55.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.
0:03:57.3 Mike Vacanti: So that’s my third.
0:04:00.1 Jordan Syatt: I like it. I think I’d go with… I think a Bulgarian split squat would be in mine as well. A Bulgarian split squat, a Sumo Romanian deadlift…
0:04:09.6 Mike Vacanti: Wow, two out of your three are lower body.
0:04:12.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Well, ’cause any RDL is full body, I mean, when you think about it. Obviously, you’re not isolating the pecs, or the shoulders, but you can’t do an RDL without really getting a strong back, a strong erector, it’s like strong lats.
0:04:27.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s true.
0:04:29.2 Jordan Syatt: And then I would go chin-ups. So any type of chin-up variation. It’s really all… Obviously, Bulgarian split squats you train some quad as well, but I would go almost all purely posterior chain with everything that I do. It would be Bulgarian split squats, Sumo RDL, and chin-ups would be… And I think my physic represents that as well. I don’t have a crazy chest, I don’t have a crazy front delts, but my lats, and my hamstrings, and my glutes… Right?
0:04:56.1 Mike Vacanti: I think you got a solid chest, Jordan. I think you’re selling yourself short.
0:04:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Thank you, I appreciate that. Everything I’ve ever done, from wrestling, to do ju-jitsu, to powerlifting… Obviously bench press and powerlifting, but bench press, and my bench press sucked. So everything for me has always been so much pulling-based and posterior chain dominant, and that’s where I’ve always seen the best results athletically. Not aesthetically, but athletically, I see that. So those would be mine.
0:05:24.8 Mike Vacanti: Nice, I like it. Aren’t you glad we started on that question?
0:05:28.5 Jordan Syatt: I’m in a really good mood. I’m in a really good mood now. [laughter] Forever, I hate that question, because it’s just so… It’s not gonna happen, ever.
0:05:41.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s not practical.
0:05:41.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s not practical, and it’s so reductionist, and it’s just like… I would way rather the question be like, “Hey, what do you think are the top X exercises for this goal, or what exercise would you do to achieve the… ” Whether the goal is bigger arms, or whether the goal is for more explosive power, or to improve your deadlift, or to improve… Decrease likelihood of a knee injury. It’s like goal-specific as opposed to like, “What are the only three exercises you’d ever do, if those are the only ones?” It’s just so not realistic or practical. That’s why I get annoyed by it. From a coaching perspective, if you asked that question to a coach, like, “What are the three exercises you’d give your clients?” It’s like, “Well… ” And immediately, a good coach thinks. “Well, it depends.”
0:06:32.1 Mike Vacanti: It depends on the client.
0:06:32.7 Jordan Syatt: It depends on the client. How advanced are they? What do they know? What are they comfortable with it? There’s so much to think about.
0:06:39.8 Mike Vacanti: I like thought exercises like that.
0:06:42.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. [laughter]
0:06:46.1 Mike Vacanti: Do you ever play the… On a road trip. What games do you play on a road trip?
0:06:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Honestly, not really many. The only game I can think of is when I was hiking in Israel. When we would hike a lot, we would play games like… We would have to name a country. So if we started with A, you’d maybe be like, Albania. And then you’d go, B, and then the next person would have to name a country starting with a letter B, and then C, and then D, and then the first person to take more than three seconds, or whatever, to think of the name loses. And we did that for hours.
0:07:25.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s a fun one.
0:07:25.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s a good one. Yeah, that was a good one.
0:07:28.2 Mike Vacanti: Have you ever played the “I’m thinking of a person” and then everyone in the car has to ask yes or no. It’s like a 20 questions variation, but they have to ask yes or no questions to narrow it down to…
0:07:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. I don’t think I’ve played that, but I like the sound of that. So it’s only yes or no. I’m thinking of a person, then you have to say, “Is it a man or a woman? Are they a movie star?” Got it, got it. Yeah, that makes sense. I like that stuff.
0:07:51.2 Mike Vacanti: Maybe we’ll play that on the podcast some day. Probably not.
0:07:55.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, we could do that. I’m thinking of an exercise. Yeah, right?
0:08:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Are you thinking of one right now?
0:08:02.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m thinking of an exercise. Yeah. Alright, let’s do it right now. I’m thinking of an exercise.
0:08:05.2 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Are you a compound movement?
0:08:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Yes.
0:08:09.8 Mike Vacanti: Do you primarily train the upper body?
0:08:12.1 Jordan Syatt: No.
0:08:12.7 Mike Vacanti: Do you primarily train the lower body?
0:08:14.4 Jordan Syatt: Yes.
0:08:14.9 Mike Vacanti: Is the primary mover the hamstrings?
0:08:18.3 Jordan Syatt: No.
0:08:18.9 Mike Vacanti: Is the primary mover the glutes?
0:08:21.2 Jordan Syatt: You could say that.
0:08:23.0 Mike Vacanti: Is this a single leg movement?
0:08:24.6 Jordan Syatt: Yes.
0:08:26.5 Mike Vacanti: Are you a posterior chain dominant single leg movement?
0:08:31.3 Jordan Syatt: You could change it depending… The way I do it, yes.
0:08:35.1 Mike Vacanti: Are you a Bulgarian split squat?
0:08:37.2 Jordan Syatt: Yes. There you go. That was cool.
0:08:38.6 Mike Vacanti: That was cool.
0:08:45.2 Mike Vacanti: Alright, let’s go to the next question. What was the most difficult period of your career as an online coach?
0:08:53.5 Jordan Syatt: The most difficult period of my career… Okay. This is a good question. So my mind goes to two different times, the first period… I think, the first period that I think of is the very beginning, like the early, early, early stages, but I think this was the second most difficult, not the most difficult. I think this was the second most difficult and not the most difficult, because I had nothing to lose. It was the beginning, it’s really, really hard, but since it hasn’t even really begun yet, there’s always another option, whether it’s going in to coach in person, which is what I was doing anyway. I was coaching people in person.
0:09:37.7 Mike Vacanti: I think you don’t have anything tangible to lose. The only thing you have to lose, if I were to put myself in that mindset at the time, is ego, is like, “Okay, I’m putting myself out there online, potentially failing, and then look stupid to others.”
0:09:53.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:09:54.3 Mike Vacanti: Which is minimal, but…
0:09:55.8 Jordan Syatt: And I think the reason that didn’t happen at that time though, is because it was so early on and I didn’t have an audience at all. The idea of even… I don’t think my ego… I don’t think it could have been hurt, because it didn’t know what was possible at that point. When I first started, I didn’t know what was possible with an online business. I didn’t know what could possibly be built, so the idea of people not liking my stuff, it didn’t even really cross my mind at that point, just because it was so early on and I was so new to it. And at that point, online coaching, it wasn’t really even a thing very much.
0:10:35.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay.
0:10:36.2 Jordan Syatt: I think the most difficult time for me was right around the time that I decided to create the Inner Circle. ‘Cause my online coaching business one-on-one was at a point where I was like, “Okay, this is doing really, really well, thank God.” But it was still relatively early in my career, three years in or so, in the online career. So the fear of, could this all be a fluke, was still very, very real, but also, hey, I need to make a change with my business in order to keep growing. So the idea of stopping, taking 101, and starting this membership was petrifying. And then at the same time, I was having real… For the first time in my life, writer’s block, for the first time. And for the only time in my life, I was having writer’s block mainly because I was working with Pat Flynn at that time. And Pat Flynn is one of the best writers I’ve ever met in my entire life. And so I was reading his writing and I felt like anything I wrote was just terrible, ’cause I kept comparing it to his.
0:11:35.8 Jordan Syatt: So I remember the first addition of the Inner Circle, for the first three to five editions, I was writing long-form articles for it, ’cause that’s all I had been doing prior to that for my public content. So I was like, “Okay, well, if they’re signing up, they’re gonna want more long form articles,” which ended up being not what they wanted. They just wanted workouts and guidance and accountability. But I remember sitting for hours, just staring at a blank Word document, just with the black bar blinking on and off, on and off, unable to write anything for hours, staring at my computer. I made a Facebook status about it. It was December 2015, or maybe November 2015, for the December edition. I couldn’t write. I was petrified ’cause the whole time I kept thinking, what could I possibly write that people are going to be happy that they paid for this? I was just absolutely petrified. I think that was the… I remember, my mom and I spoke about this recently. She was like, “I’ll never forget. That was the most worried you’ve ever been with your business, because you knew you wanted to make a big transition, but you had no idea if it was gonna work.” So, yeah, that was probably the hardest. What about you?
0:12:46.7 Mike Vacanti: The exact same two spots.
0:12:49.9 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.
0:12:50.5 Mike Vacanti: And while I was looking at the questions that we’d picked out for today… Yeah. Literally, my mind went to the very beginning, as one. And the second one being.
0:13:06.0 Mike Vacanti: The time when I had to decide that there were more important things in life than trying to grow revenue. And I would argue that I didn’t fully comprehend that until maybe 2019, but it was a battle from, maybe late… My time with Gary, so mid-2016, all the way to 2019, this inner turmoil of… Because from 2012 until 2016, growth, like more clients, more business, more revenue, growth across the board was the goal.
0:13:48.5 Jordan Syatt: And social media, all that, yeah.
0:13:50.8 Mike Vacanti: Everything, and more on the more clients, more revenue side, than on the bigger follower account numbers for me personally, for various reasons, but yeah, all of it. And trying to… It was just hard to logically say, “Hey, I want less clients. I want fewer clients.” And maybe part of it was a fear of, “What if this is all a fluke? What if this all goes away tomorrow? What if this becomes illegal?” Maybe a little bit of that.
0:14:26.7 Jordan Syatt: What if this becomes illegal?
0:14:28.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:14:29.8 Jordan Syatt: Really? Coaching online?
0:14:29.9 Mike Vacanti: Well, because with online poker, that’s how I paid the majority of the college debt that I had, that’s how I had enough savings to quit my accounting job, was from money I’d made playing poker. And on April 15th, 2011, there was an article on the cover of Yahoo Finance.
0:14:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Wow, almost 10 years.
0:14:53.8 Mike Vacanti: Almost 10 years, exactly. Black Friday, it’s known in the poker community where PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker, and the Cereus Network, Absolute and Ultimate Bet. The Attorney General went after… Made it illegal for the big online poker sites to operate in the US until to this day, for the most part. Now there’s a few states that can have online poker, but… And that cut off that extra revenue stream for me that I was putting probably 15 to 20 hours a week on top of my accounting job at the time. So yeah, there was always a fear of, “What if this opportunity disappears?” for that reason.
0:15:34.2 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.
0:15:37.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but… I kinda lost my train of thought.
0:15:41.0 Jordan Syatt: Well, so you said when you started, and then there was the idea, other ways to improve outside of growing revenue.
0:15:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and that was, I guess, just my gut or my intuition, knowing that this level of work, spending 60, 70, 80 hours a week, almost exclusively on client work. Some of that was content too at the time, but so much of it designing programs and communicating with clients, balancing the fact that, “This is such a great opportunity, I’m helping so many people, and I’m saving up money that is going to give me security in the future,” balancing that with, “Is this workload I’m putting on myself sustainable?” I remember getting myself into an angry, motivated state many times just because that was the only emotion that I knew could carry me through those extra four hours of work from 7:00 PM to 11:00 PM on a Sunday night. And so making the decision that it was okay to coach fewer people and make less money was probably… There are so many hard times over the course of a career, but that’s the one that’s standing out to me right now.
0:17:01.2 Jordan Syatt: You said that started in 2016 when you started thinking about it?
0:17:06.1 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t start thinking about it, but I felt it. So I remember after I was done with Gary, I was less motivated to be making content, and I did an 11-week reverse bet in the fall of 2016, where I had to… I think I published an article a week. I did daily Instagram posts. I don’t remember everything that was involved, some frequency on YouTube during that time, I don’t remember if that was daily or like a 3X a week, but it was five or six categories for 11 weeks, and I did it all, but those were tactics to force myself to do something that I didn’t want to do, and made me do those things, but… And the outcome was “good”, but yeah, that was the beginning of feeling… Two years prior, I wouldn’t have had to convince myself to do those things, I would have just been naturally drawn to do them.
0:18:05.9 Jordan Syatt: It was the first time you realize, I don’t wanna be doing this anymore, at that level.
0:18:11.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, the way that I was doing it, exactly.
0:18:14.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, burning the candle on both ends.
0:18:17.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, for too long. And there’s benefits to that, right?
0:18:20.3 Jordan Syatt: 100%.
0:18:22.0 Mike Vacanti: Savings creates future freedom, and I don’t know if I would have done it differently in hindsight, but it was a tough decision that dragged on, even through the whole course of coaching Jaime and Matt, and traveling, and doing all of that in 2017, up until the spring of 2018. During 2018, just trying to continue to at least maintain a level, if not grow, when my gut, my intuition were pointing me towards other areas of life, relationships, self-reflection and improving my character, compared to just putting all of my effort and energy into business, those types of things.
0:19:06.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that makes total sense. That makes total sense.
0:19:09.1 Mike Vacanti: But it’s funny, because my mind went first to, early on, getting things up and running is obviously hard, but then that decision to make some kind of transition.
0:19:22.3 Mike Vacanti: Which is funny because that’s almost like the question Eric Roberts asked in a recent Q&A in the mentorship was, he’s at 80 clients and doing really well but feeling like, “Do I need to continue to take on more?”, wrestling with that.
0:19:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I think it’s sort of like the comparison that I have is, a very difficult time in my training career was when I decided to stop power lifting, ’cause so much of who I was, was wrapped up in being a power lifter, all of my goals were based on power lifting and increasing my squat bench dead and competing, and a lot of my content was based around that, and my ego was wrapped up in, “You are a power lifter,” and the idea of training any other way was like, “You’re doing it wrong.” This isn’t gonna work. So when I got to a point in which… I had built myself up as a one-on-one online coach, that’s what I had done for literally years, everything I had done was towards that, every article mentioned that, all of my sales had been talking about that. The only experience that I had coaching people was one-on-one, so the idea of moving to another model scared the shit out of me. It’s like, “This isn’t gonna work.” So it makes sense when you… The beginning being a very hard time, but I think it’s sort of like, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. It’s like you are your own old dog, and if you do something for a long period of time, it’s going to be harder to switch than it will be to have even begun.
0:20:57.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, I agree. You might not have any… Have had any ego attached to the potential to fail early on…
0:21:08.3 Jordan Syatt: I’m sure I did. Oh, you mean early on? Yeah.
0:21:10.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and I get that failing in front of millions is different than failing in front of a smaller number, but I remember being motivated to… And we’re gonna get into this ’cause we’re gonna talk… We talked about anger last episode and we had a really good follow-up question on anger, and so we’ll get into that next, but there was definitely a piece of me at the time that didn’t wanna fail in front of insert person. Person who made fun of me when I quit my accounting job, person who did whatever, ex-girlfriend who… Throw in whoever. And it wasn’t that I was posting in front of lots of people, but I was posting about something brand new in front of people who knew me, and many thought I was nuts for leaving a “good job” to go do this random fitness thing, so that was the ego.
0:22:06.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny, as you were saying that, I’ll never forget. I was like 18 or 19, and I was in my first year of college, and I was writing an article, and I was writing an article. And even nowadays, if you were like, “Hey, I have a website,” people are like, “Whoa, you’ve got a website?” It’s like, yeah, anyone can have a website, but at 18, 19 years old, had a website, all the other kids, they didn’t have a website, and I remember a bunch of these kids were about to go out to a party. It was a Friday night and I was like, “I hate all of you. I don’t wanna be here. This place sucks.” I was just super angry. So it’s funny, we’re gonna talk about that in a second, I was angry and I was channeling all of that anger towards just writing and reading Lyle McDonald, reading Alan Aragon, reading Martin Berkhan and writing and making my own content, and this girl walked in, she’s was like, “Hey Jordan, we’re all going out.” And I was like, “No, I’m writing an article.”
0:23:01.8 Jordan Syatt: And her first response was like, “What gives you the authority to write an article?” She looks at me, and her name was Mya, she said, “What gives you the authority to write an article?” And I remember just being dumb-founded that she would say that, and I was like, “You’ll fucking see.” And I went in on that article, and it was funny because now years later, she’s like, “Hey, love what you’re doing, dah dah dah dah.” But I doubt she even remembers that interaction, but there was definitely ego wrapped up in that, the “I’ll show them” type thing, and I think a lot of… [chuckle] I think of the Michael Jordan documentary, “The Last Dance”, how he’ll make stuff like that up in order to get angry and to perform at a higher level. If anyone has not seen “The Last Dance” on Netflix with the Michael Jordan documentary, watch it, it’s phenomenal. But I feel like there’s a lot of that, whether it’s real or made up in my head, I did a lot of that. “I’ll show them.” For sure.
0:24:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. And that one was real.
0:24:02.5 Jordan Syatt: That one was real. That one was real, yeah.
0:24:03.9 Mike Vacanti: But you know what’s interesting, is if someone said today, what gives you the authority to make a post about this, it wouldn’t have the same effect that it did that…
0:24:15.2 Jordan Syatt: I’d laugh, yeah. It would be whatever. Correct. Yeah, it’s an interesting mindset, it’s like you’re at a very different point in time…
0:24:23.0 Mike Vacanti: And two years ago me wouldn’t have liked that, because I would have liked what’s familiar, it’s like, “No, I want that comment to piss me off because I know that that is the spark that leads to this five hours of work that leads to this outcome,” and without the spark, do I still have the motivation, call it whatever, to do the thing, to get to that outcome.
0:24:46.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s funny, my mind is immediately going to fighting and specifically Conor McGregor, and a lot of the talk around how when he… Before he was champion and before he was even the champ champ in two different weight divisions, he had so much hunger and you could see it, his motivation was… He had so much anger and so much fuel to his fire, but once he had the highest of the high status, he was the first double champion in UFC history, you see him not working as much and he’s partying more and he’s doing all this stuff.
0:25:16.3 Mike Vacanti: He’s content.
0:25:16.9 Jordan Syatt: He’s content, yeah.
0:25:18.4 Mike Vacanti: Which is probably good for life, for real life Conor, but for fighter Conor…
0:25:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Good for… Regardless of the stuff that he did, whether it was party… Who knows, but from the… Taking away the actual actions of what he did and talking more about him focusing less on work and focusing more on himself…
0:25:38.0 Mike Vacanti: I see, I see, you’re talking like, punched a guy in a bar, threw up…
0:25:42.2 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, I mean, once he reached a point in which he was content, he was then able to focus more on himself, and I know it ’cause some people are gonna be like, “But he did some really bad things and he was a mess.” Yeah, I’m not talking about that. I just mean…
0:25:55.7 Mike Vacanti: Sure, threw the dolly through the window.
0:25:57.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, just doing stupid stuff.
0:26:00.6 Mike Vacanti: But if you straight up compare.
0:26:02.3 Mike Vacanti: Like, Okay, I’m gonna take 10-15 hours that were training hours during a week. These guys are doing this full-time, so who knows, 40, 50 hours all in to recovery, everything that goes into it, but say he takes 20% of that away and puts it towards being on a boat with his family, going out to dinner with his family, spending time with his kids. If that leads, and we’re just speculating, obviously, but if that leads to a worse performing fighter, but a more… Maybe a better husband, maybe a better father, maybe… Who is to say what’s better or worse?
0:26:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Well, yeah, that’s exactly right. And I think that’s where a lot of cognitive dissonance comes into play. When you spend the better part of 10 years trying to build your business, I think it can be difficult to get to a point where you’re like, “Hey, I can take a step back from my business now, and it’s okay.” You identify so much with your business being you, that to take a step away from it and to be like, “Hey, you know what? I’m not gonna wake up at 5:00 AM every day.” Or I’m like, “I’m going to stop working at this time, or I’m not gonna answer every single DM.” Whatever it is. It can be difficult, but I think that’s part of the progression. And sort of like you said earlier, the times where I did answer literally every single DM and the posting three times a day every single day for seven days a week, it was all worth it. And I was thinking about that this morning as I was walking back from Jujutsu, ’cause I train Jujutsu six times a week now, I strength train usually three times a week, focusing more on my health than I ever have before, than I ever have in years. And when I was really focused on my business, I didn’t at all. So it’s interesting to be at a point now where it’s like, hey, I can really not even start legitimate work until noon, whereas before, I would have already spent 6-8 hours non-stop working. So yeah, it’s interesting.
0:28:07.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s also interesting because it feels… Even at this point, it’s still an ongoing battle, it feels… I don’t know if it’s where we are culturally with what is celebrated and what is promoted, or if it’s just on an individual level, some level of guilt, like, “Why do I have the opportunity to work less total hours and still succeed than somebody else?” What puts… Is it luck, is it… What puts me in this position? Yeah. Those are things that I wrestle with.
0:28:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Mm-hmm.
0:28:44.0 Mike Vacanti: Alright. So my guy Carlo on anger, “Wanted to ask you something you mentioned on a previous podcast re-anger.”
0:28:51.1 Jordan Syatt: Did he email you this?
0:28:52.1 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh.
0:28:52.6 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay.
0:28:54.2 Mike Vacanti: “You said that you were feeling less angry these days, but you often would go to a dark place for your workouts, and then also use that normal life to motivate you. I can definitely relate with this. I usually go to a dark place for my workouts. My question is, do you think this dark place is an overall good thing, or do you think it’s something that needs to be addressed and contended with so that it is gradually eliminated from your life? Sorry for the deep topic, but I got super curious once you started mentioning… Once you started talking about it, especially after you mentioned you’re not as much in that mode these days. I’m not sure what the answer is, because I see a lot of people around me who aren’t as “angry”, yet also are not pushing themselves.”
0:29:42.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s a good question.
0:29:44.1 Mike Vacanti: What do you think?
0:29:46.7 Jordan Syatt: My first thought is immediately to push back against what I think societal norms would say right now, which is I think society would be like, That’s a terrible thing. You should not be fostering this anger. And my initial thought is like, It’s a really good thing. I just wanna say that. My immediate pushback to that thought is like, “We’ve all got anger.” And I think it’s rather than trying to pretend like it doesn’t exist or… Did you ever read the book, The Giver?
0:30:18.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:30:18.6 Jordan Syatt: In sixth grade or something?
0:30:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Yup.
0:30:21.3 Jordan Syatt: Do you remember in that… I haven’t read it since sixth grade, but I believe part of that book was about taking away these natural human feelings and emotions. And I believe it was about, in that, in the context of that book, is taking away the feelings of lust or desire, I think. Again, I haven’t read it in 20 years or whatever it is, but…
0:30:44.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t… I read it. I don’t remember the book at all.
0:30:46.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m pretty sure what they were doing is they were taking away any time a kid had a feeling of like, Oh, I like that girl, or, I like that boy, they were given certain pills to prevent that feeling, and it wasn’t a good thing. It was like… We have these natural, normal human emotions. I don’t like the idea… And this could be for anything, it could be for jealousy, it could be for guilt, it could be for anger, it could be for sadness. It’s very common nowadays for people to be like, “Don’t tell me not to feel sad.” It’s like… And you shouldn’t. You shouldn’t tell someone how they should or should not feel. You shouldn’t tell somebody not to feel sad. I don’t think it’s right to tell someone that they should not feel angry. I think the key here is figuring out how to… Coming up with a great outlet for how you feel. And if you’re in a place in which you’re very angry, I think it’s a great idea to funnel that anger towards something you’re passionate about.
0:31:44.0 Jordan Syatt: For me, any time I’ve struggled with writer’s block, one of the reasons I’ve only struggled with writer’s block that one time is because I realized one easy way for me to get past any writer’s block is just to simply write about something that makes me very angry. Then I’ll write. It’s a very… I think about something that pisses me off and I write and it comes out super easily. When I was younger, anger… Funneled it towards my business, funneled it towards my training sessions, and a lot of great stuff came out of it. I don’t like the idea of trying to eliminate this feeling. I think the goal should be to pay attention to how you feel, whether it’s angry, whether it’s jealous, whether it’s sad, whether it’s happy, whatever it is, figure out how you feel and try to funnel that towards something that will make you proud of yourself, to doing something will make you and others around you better people, as opposed to saying, “This just shouldn’t… We shouldn’t feel this way.” That’s my thoughts. What do you think?
0:32:41.2 Mike Vacanti: Would you say you’re less angry now than you were 10 years ago?
0:32:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I would say I’m more content now and less angry. I’m less… I have less of a chip on my shoulder, I have less to prove. I like just going out in the sun more, I like just hanging out more watching TV. I didn’t have a TV until Coronavirus. And it’s funny, I think this past year also put me into more of a content mindset, just like almost being forced to slow down in some ways. But I think that it started even before the pandemic. I could feel that I needed to slow down, but I’m definitely less angry.
0:33:30.9 Mike Vacanti: You never actively tried to be less angry, you just became less angry.
0:33:39.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And I don’t think I was… I think I’ve, overall been a pretty happy, optimistic person, but sort of like how you’d get yourself in an angry mindset in order to do work, I could channel that very well.
0:33:55.7 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. I can relate.
0:33:57.4 Jordan Syatt: So it wasn’t like I was walking around just angry at the world, just like, “Oh.” There was a time in college that I was like that. It was one of the reasons why I started my business in college ’cause I hated everybody, and I hated myself, and I hated everything around me, and I was just like, “Screw this.” So I think that’s the most angry I’ve ever been. But aside from that, I haven’t just been walking around angry. I’ve just been able to channel that because I knew that would make me very productive.
0:34:28.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I don’t know the right answer. I just know that I also never tried to be less angry, I just over time became that. And maybe part of it was that a lot of the anger was driven by a desire to prove people wrong, or to be better than people, or to fill some kind of void. And once you achieve some of that success and see the path, you could go linearly like this until you’re 90 years old, making more money, having more followers, being more known, having more people tell you how great you are for the rest of your life, and that’s never going to… There’s no amount of that that in and of itself would be enough.
0:35:20.0 Mike Vacanti: And for me, I think that’s what led to some of the contentment, was experiencing some of what I thought would make me feel a certain way, and realizing that what actually makes me feel better is doing work at a level that I’m passionate and motivated to do without that, spending time with friends and family and having deep and meaningful conversations, doing things that just make me happier than… Yeah. I think that’s the answer because I never actively tried to be less angry. But now my workouts are definitely motivated by something else. Now it’s motivated by a desire to be healthier, by the positive emotions associated with having lifted weights and having worked out, or having gone for a walk outside, or having done cardio. It’s not the proof someone wrong or the chip on the shoulder that motivates me to do it, it’s the feeling of having done it that I enjoy.
0:36:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I don’t even know… I’m sort of just stuck on the trying to be less angry. For whatever reason, I don’t like the sound of that. I don’t like the sound of telling, “Well, we should try to be less angry.” I feel like… You know what I mean? I don’t like the idea of, “Hey, we should really try to make… ” I feel like, “Hey, we should try to make people not think of a white elephant.” As soon as you say that, all they’re gonna think about is that. If we say, “Hey, we gotta try to make you less angry.” They’re gonna be angry in response to that. And I feel like I’ve just never been a fan of trying to say, “You shouldn’t have this emotion, or… ” I just don’t like that. I’ve never been a fan of that. I also think…
0:37:14.0 Mike Vacanti: If someone was really struggling with envy and trying to reframe that as being happy for the person, or how then… ‘Cause I think I’m pretty sure I agree with you on anger.
0:37:30.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:37:30.5 Mike Vacanti: There are other emotions that I feel like maybe I wouldn’t tell someone else to get rid of it, but if I was experiencing it, I would not want to be experiencing that.
0:37:38.7 Jordan Syatt: Well, I think the question is, how do we have a conversation with that person as opposed to… Instead of saying, “Hey, we should feel less of this?” That, “Alright, my mind is now going in motivational intervening.” That’s where my mind is going right now. If someone’s really struggling with envy or jealousy, whatever it is, talking to them and saying, “Well, why do you feel that way? Is that the way that you want to feel about it? Does that make sense?” Or whatever it is, having a conversation…
0:38:08.6 Mike Vacanti: Rather than trying to beat it out of them.
0:38:09.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct. For me, so much of what I see in society… And this is where my mind has been since the beginning when I heard the question is I’ve seen so much of society saying… And I’ll just say it. My immediate thought was this idea of toxic masculinity, right?
0:38:26.1 Mike Vacanti: Oh, yeah.
0:38:26.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s where my mind has been from the beginning of saying, “Oh well, all these men, like this toxic masculinity and that they shouldn’t be allowed to feel that way, and it’s just been like… ” That makes me angry. And an intro like, “You have this toxic masculinity. You shouldn’t feel that way.” I’ve literally seen posts being like, “Men should stop strength training, men should be trying to lower their testosterone.” And it’s like… That makes me angry.
0:38:58.8 Mike Vacanti: And that would make me angry if I… So what’s going on right now is we have different perceptions on societal norms because of where.
0:39:06.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re not on social media.
0:39:08.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. If I was consuming that, I’d go nuts. The first thing I’d do is I’d text you. I’d be like, “Can you believe this post?” You’d be like, “Dude, I see that 100 times a day.”
0:39:16.0 Jordan Syatt: You made the whole video about Gillette on YouTube. You spoke about that. I know we agree about… Yeah.
0:39:21.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:39:21.9 Jordan Syatt: Which was… When was that? Three years ago now, four years ago now.
0:39:24.8 Mike Vacanti: No, not that long ago. But yeah. I’m pro little boys, rough and tumble playing, wrestling with each other. That’s not toxic masculinity.
0:39:33.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:39:34.0 Mike Vacanti: There is a positive and negative side to masculinity, and there’s a positive and negative side to femininity. Masculinity isn’t bad or toxic.
0:39:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct.
0:39:44.2 Mike Vacanti: And I think it’s the absence of good masculinity that is the biggest… I shouldn’t say that. That is the problem that people are concerned with, is coming from a lack of positive masculinity rather than too much masculinity in general.
0:40:01.6 Jordan Syatt: Rather than masculinity inherently being toxic.
0:40:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Correct.
0:40:04.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yep. Exactly. For me, the idea of masculinity… And I had a great conversation with Paul Carter about this. I think he articulates it super well. The idea of masculinity, if we break it down, someone being masculine first and foremost, being masculine isn’t solely relegated to men.
0:40:29.6 Mike Vacanti: Correct.
0:40:30.2 Jordan Syatt: And being feminine isn’t solely relegated to women. There’s crossover between the two. People often say feminine is women, masculine is men. That’s incorrect. Women can have masculine traits and men can have feminine traits. Masculine, I don’t think masculine or feminine can be bad. I think they both… Masculine has traits that are positive, feminine has traits that are positive. When people say toxic masculinity, well, whether it’s say… We’ll say one example might be aggression, overly aggressive, that’s not masculine. I don’t think…
0:41:09.4 Mike Vacanti: You don’t think aggression’s a masculine trait? Not overly aggressive.
0:41:12.8 Jordan Syatt: I think people associate overly aggressive with masculine. I don’t think someone being mean or overly aggressive and, “Oh, that person is too masculine.” No, no. That person, if they’re being overly aggressive, they’re insecure, they’re mean, masculine is our good traits. Feminine is good traits. I think anything that deviates from that are people attributing something negative to what isn’t masculine, if that… Does that make sense?
0:41:39.0 Mike Vacanti: It makes sense.
0:41:39.8 Jordan Syatt: So I don’t think… And I could be wrong. I wouldn’t put aggressive as a masculine trait. I don’t think so, and I could be wrong, but I wouldn’t say being aggressive is a masculine trait. I think that being… What’s it called? I wouldn’t say not motivated, but like someone who’s really going after their career.
0:42:06.7 Mike Vacanti: Driven.
0:42:07.2 Jordan Syatt: Driven. I would say driven is a masculine trait. And again, masculine doesn’t mean men. Women can have masculine traits, but I think being driven is a masculine trait. And being driven is a good thing. Being driven, driving and try to be better. I think being aggressive… I guess that could be good if you use it properly.
0:42:29.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I see where you’re going. And by the way, we’re just spit-balling on this. My understanding is that the archetypical masculine and feminine traits come through the generations and generations, and hundreds of years of human behavior, as well as the myths and stories that have existed in cultures going all the way back. I think that’s where we’re pulling these traits from. My mind, when I think of positive or negative masculinity, or positive or negative femininity, to use the aggression example, if you are using a trait like aggression to defend a friend who is being bullied, you’re using aggression against the bully to spare your friend, to protect your friend versus…
0:43:37.9 Jordan Syatt: Being the bully.
0:43:40.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. To be an aggressive bully. That’s where I see a single trait can have a positive and negative.
0:43:47.3 Jordan Syatt: Makes total sense.
0:43:48.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:43:48.6 Jordan Syatt: Makes total sense. Yeah, I agree with that.
0:43:51.5 Mike Vacanti: But yeah, I don’t really know how to categorize which traits as masculine or feminine.
0:43:57.1 Jordan Syatt: There are a lot of articles on it. I remember I was doing some research on it, maybe around a year ago or so. And I was looking up what are masculine traits, what are feminine traits. And any time I’ve gotten in little discussions about this with people, like little… Mini debates, it always stems from people thinking, masculine is for men and feminine is for women. And them really, when you say that this is a masculine trait, they think, “Well, I’m a woman.” It’s like, yeah, and women can have masculine traits. They do. And men can have feminine traits. They do. I think it’s more of a spectrum as opposed to a, men have this, women have this. It’s a spectrum. You can generally… There will be some outliers who are completely on either end of it, but generally we tend to be somewhat more towards the middle, and… Yeah.
0:44:46.9 Mike Vacanti: With a lot of overlap.
0:44:48.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Exactly.
0:44:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But I agree with you, with… That would anger me as well if I was in a position to be exposed to that. Alright. Man, the last one we have is quite deep if we just wanna continue to dive in on this.
0:45:10.2 Jordan Syatt: Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Let’s do it.
0:45:14.3 Mike Vacanti: Alright, let’s do it. What is your biggest fear?
0:45:16.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, why did I say, let’s do it? You go first.
0:45:22.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t even know if I wanna go all the way on this. My biggest fear historically and present day, but much more historically is dying.
0:45:36.7 Jordan Syatt: Really?
0:45:37.2 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh. And at times that fear was overwhelming, like I couldn’t even think about it in probably the 2014 to 2016 time-frame, stoicism and meditating on death and memento mori and using the idea that life is finite as motivation to be the best person I can be every single day in every single interaction, like that really, I guess, worked for me is what you would say, for whatever reason. And by the way, I think that the majority of society, for good reason, actively is willfully blind towards the fact that we’re gonna die. Like doesn’t wanna think about the fact that we… Every single person you’ve ever met and ever will meet, and every person on earth is going to die one day, and none of us know for certain what happens after that, and then you can get into like, “You can know things with your heart and you can know things with your head,” and maybe it can be argued that you can know in your heart what’s gonna happen when you die, but to actually know logically no one can win that argument per se.
0:47:01.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct, correct.
0:47:04.2 Mike Vacanti: So I think that’s like the default state, and I think that I’ve trended back towards that a little bit in recent times, and I only noticed that because there was a death. I’m not gonna go into details on this, but recently that you know of close to me, not my immediate family or exactly, but close. And that has brought… Thankfully, nothing has happened to anyone close to me in a very long time, but this event has served as many things, but one of them has brought the subject of death back in front of me, and is something that made me realize that I was kind of falling into this. I just don’t wanna think about the fact that we’re all going to die, whereas for several years in there, I really… I had a memento mori coin, necklace, I had… Have you ever seen the charts where it’s a whole bunch of little boxes?
0:48:09.2 Jordan Syatt: Yep.
0:48:10.0 Mike Vacanti: And each box represents a week and it comes out to 80 years, I think, and you check… You fill in the box in black and it shows you how far into your life you are.
0:48:18.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:48:18.5 Mike Vacanti: I used to have one of those.
0:48:19.5 Jordan Syatt: I remember, I remember it. I think I’ve seen that either a picture of it or in your apartment, but I remember it. Yeah, yeah.
0:48:27.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, death is historically my biggest fear and…
0:48:33.7 Jordan Syatt: What about it is the scariest to you, if you thought about that? Just like the finality of it?
0:48:40.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, what’s scary is… Man, we’re on real deep boat, but what is scariest is the piece of me that doubts God, or like the piece of me that is like, “What if… What if materialism is right? What if the furtherest spectrum of atheism is right? What if we literally aren’t… What if the soul… What if consciousness is in the brain and there isn’t a soul, and when your brain shuts off, that’s it? There’s nothing more.” That’s the scared… To not live and to not ever experience is the scariest, and I’ve had conversations historically with close friends, and there is like, “Well, you didn’t know before you were born and you won’t know… Did that scare you?” And it’s like, “No, that didn’t scare me. But for some that doesn’t do it for me. It doesn’t make me feel better that I didn’t know before I was a human.”
0:49:38.3 Mike Vacanti: And I’ve poked around all over, there’s Mike Mathews, our buddy, recommends a book called, I think it’s called Life After Life. Might be called Life After Death, I think it’s called Life After Life, but it’s about stories mostly from children who have said just wild things that have led the author, I guess, to strongly believe in reincarnation, but yeah, that’s historically my biggest fear.
0:50:09.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. [chuckle]
0:50:14.5 Mike Vacanti: You don’t need to follow up, just…
0:50:18.2 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.
0:50:20.4 Mike Vacanti: We can part to this, but there’s definitely something in that has changed the way I think about death since having a restored belief in God that, I guess, waxed and waned from my freshman year of college until maybe four years ago, but yeah, in the background. And if you look at the sum of the almost 34 years, that has historically been my biggest fear.
0:51:00.5 Jordan Syatt: You mentioned, is materialism really like it? Right? So does that mean…
0:51:05.2 Mike Vacanti: Are you procrastinating talking about your fear?
0:51:07.7 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, no. I’m actually, I’m interested ’cause I know I’m gonna have to talk about it anyway.
0:51:16.9 Jordan Syatt: Is the fear, sort of, based around when you die, if it’s not based on how well you lived, like your after life, it’s not based on that, then you missed out on so much?
0:51:32.3 Mike Vacanti: 0%, because I actually think that living virtuously leads to a better time on Earth than leading a completely hedonic pleasure-filled like whatever, living any other way. I actually think that your time on Earth is better in and of itself, if there’s nothing else by living the most virtuously that you can live.
0:51:57.2 Jordan Syatt: Makes sense.
0:51:57.5 Mike Vacanti: No, the fear is like that it shuts off and there is no after life, and then for the rest of infinity…
0:52:06.0 Jordan Syatt: You’re gone.
0:52:06.5 Mike Vacanti: There’s no experience, yeah.
0:52:07.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re gone. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get that. Alright.
0:52:19.4 Jordan Syatt: This is definitely a deep one. Mine is, without going too specific, too micro, micro, micro, I would say on a larger scale, the fear of losing everything that I have. Whether it’s losing everything that I’ve built business-wise, family, friends, just losing everything and not having the ability or the freedom to make it back. It’s like the idea… Yeah, that’s basically it. The idea of having spent all of this time, all of this energy, all of this, this… Just dedicated so much of who I am and what I do to building the life that I have, the idea of losing it just freaks me out. Which then it gets in the way of actually living, because then you get so focused on the fear of losing it.
0:53:20.7 Jordan Syatt: This is one of the reasons I’ve struggled with social media, because I don’t want to say the one wrong thing that will then lead to me being cancelled, and then losing everything. So, it’s like when… That’s been one of the hard parts as I’ve grown my business and grown on social media, where it’s like, you think for so long you wanna get to a certain point, like you wanna build your audience up, you want more people, you want more people. That’s like more people more problems, and then as you build it, then the fear goes from never achieving it to losing it. And then as that becomes a fear, when I was building it I didn’t have much of… I didn’t have the fear of losing it ’cause it wasn’t built yet. So, I could say what I wanted and without much fear or worry about negative repercussions, but once it’s been built and there’s a lot to lose, then it’s the fear of saying the wrong thing, which I say every day at this point.
0:54:19.4 Jordan Syatt: There’s always somebody who is like… Literally yesterday, right before I went to bed, someone was like, “You are so not compassionate with your answers. What is wrong with you? Da, da, da, da, da.” And I just blocked them. I was just like, “I’ve been posting online everyday for 10 years, giving away free content, how in the fuck am I not compassionate? Get out of here.” But there’s always somebody who’s offended or upset or thinking I’m a bad person, and it’s like… And they have no problem letting me know.
0:54:53.2 Jordan Syatt: And so every day, it’s not even just the thought of it, but I’m actually faced with that potential reality. So, yeah, that’s definitely my biggest fear as of right now. I would love to get to a point where I just don’t give a fuck at all. I would love to get to that point where I just don’t care. ‘Cause I think once… I don’t know if that’s… If it’s realistic, if it’s possible to literally not care, I just don’t… I don’t know, but if it is, I would love to get to that point. ‘Cause then, I think, you can just say literally whatever you want without any fear of any repercussion ’cause you don’t care. It just doesn’t matter to you. I don’t know if I’ll get to that point, but I would like to. [laughter]
0:55:37.7 Mike Vacanti: And with that, we will wrap the episode. If you enjoyed this, please leave us a review, a written review really helps the podcast a lot, it helps our egos, it helps us reach more people, it helps show people that this is a solid podcast. So, we’d really appreciate a five star review, if you have a minute here.
0:55:55.9 Jordan Syatt: Huge shoutout to everyone in the Mentorship. We’re just blown away with the progress that everyone’s making, how hard people are working. Maybe we could start doing this every episode, just give one individual shoutout from the Mentorship, like one person I’m thinking right now, Beth Feraco. Talk about strong and persistent, Beth Feraco started just like everybody. Everybody starts out with zero followers, everybody starts out with zero followers, no matter who you are. Beth started out with zero followers just like everybody. She grew her audience to well over a 100,000, to maybe over 130,000 on TikTok. Her account got hacked. Her account got hacked. She spent no time… She wasted no time on dwelling on it, and I’m sure she was upset about it, but she started another account and got back to work. And she had saved all of her content and just yesterday, I believe, she found out that she got her account back finally, which is just huge. But the fact that Beth didn’t let that prevent her from keep going. I know many people, if that happened, if their account got hacked, they would’ve stopped, they’re like, “Alright, whatever. It is what it is.” And she started over again with zero followers, but then eventually she got her account back, so huge shoutout to Beth.
0:57:12.4 Mike Vacanti: Amazing work, Beth.
0:57:13.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, amazing work. So we hope you enjoyed the episode. Have a wonderful day. We’ll talk to you soon.
0:57:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Bye everyone.