In this episode, we have an in-depth conversation about some of the most common mistakes personal trainers make (especially when they’re starting their business) and how you can avoid them.
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-J & M
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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here
Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:
0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: What’s up, Jordan?
0:00:13.2 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael? You know what story I’ve been waiting to hear for a couple of days since we postponed the podcast?
0:00:19.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh man, I’m in such a good mood today, I don’t know if I can… Yes, I think I do know that story.
0:00:22.8 Jordan Syatt: I knew this was gonna happen. I knew this was gonna happen. You wait to tell me this story about Planet Fitness or whatever your gym is, and then y’all say it on the pod and then I don’t hear it for a couple of days, and now you’re in a good mood, so you don’t wanna tell me about it.
0:00:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m in a good mood because I just had an amazing lift, but I did have a workout at a Planet Fitness a few days ago, where I had a real interaction with… I don’t know if he’s the gym manager or who he is, but… Yes. Is that really how we’re kicking it off?
0:00:52.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but I’ve been waiting for this moment for two days.
0:00:55.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m in such a good mood.
0:00:56.9 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been planning this is how we were gonna start it off.
0:00:57.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t even think… Wow, you J’d it on me. Good for you.
0:01:00.6 Jordan Syatt: I did. Surprise J.
0:01:03.5 Mike Vacanti: Man, and I was coming in, so ready to go to tell you about the 4 x 15 I just hit with 110-pound dumbbells.
0:01:11.3 Jordan Syatt: Did you really hit the 4 x 15?
0:01:14.3 Mike Vacanti: No, I did not, Jordan. [laughter] Come on.
0:01:15.1 Jordan Syatt: I was like, “Wow, that’s really impressive”. [laughter]
0:01:19.2 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely not. What happened? To make a long story short…
0:01:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Ugh. Now, you’re gonna butcher the story.
0:01:29.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t remember the details any longer, here’s what I know. I was walking, I was training lower, and what did I have that day, like Bulgarian split squat, single-leg RDLs, normal stuff, and I have my Nike running shoes that I wear to the gym, I actually prefer on most lower body exercises, I prefer going in my socks even more than a Converse or a very flat, hard, small soled shoe, but I didn’t even have that shoe, I had my running shoes that I wear in day-to-day life, ’cause those feel the best on my knees and ankles, and I enjoy them, so obviously, when I’m done warming up, I kick my shoes off and do my first warm-up set, and then I think I had probably done one or two exercises.
0:02:18.5 Mike Vacanti: And what I’ve done both for more steps and for additional hydration is after every set, I’m walking a lap of the gym and hitting the drinking fountain, so rather than just sitting there on my phone for two, three, even four minutes, a nice lap around the gym, take a couple of sips of water, get back and yeah, I don’t know, the kid working the front desk who I’ve had some awkward interactions with before, he was trying to get me to use a mat on a movement when I’m like, I don’t wanna use a mat because I don’t like… Similar to the lower body stuff, I like a hard surface for a lot of exercises, even some ab exercises, interestingly enough, which I don’t know if we’ve ever talked about. But he’s like, “Hey buddy. What’s the deal?” And…
0:03:01.9 Jordan Syatt: Did he say, “Hey buddy?”
0:03:04.1 Mike Vacanti: I think he did. I think he said, “Hey buddy, what’s the deal?”
0:03:07.3 Jordan Syatt: Wow. He came at you aggressively.
0:03:09.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. He had a smile on his face, but I didn’t like the tone.
0:03:13.5 Mike Vacanti: And I looked at him and I said, “What, you’ve never seen anyone lift weights in their socks before?” And he goes, “No… “
0:03:17.0 Jordan Syatt: You said that?
0:03:19.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I just matched him.
0:03:23.2 Mike Vacanti: And he’s like, “No, no, I have, but we got rules,” and I was like… I think I then came back and I was like, “I’ve been training at this gym for some absurd number of years, and I’ve never had anyone say this to me,” which isn’t false—back in 2016, when I coached my dad, we were at a Planet Fitness—and he was like, “You gotta wear shoes.” And he pulled out the rule book on me, and so I’m standing there just kind of waiting like, “Okay… ” He’s like, “There’s a rule. There’s a rule.” I was like, “I believe you.” But he’s like, “No, I’m gonna find it.” So we spent probably 90 seconds and he’s reading through this laminated sheet with rules on it.
0:04:02.0 Jordan Syatt: He’s got this on his person while he’s walking around the gym?
0:04:05.5 Mike Vacanti: Yes.
0:04:05.6 Jordan Syatt: He’s like a football referee, he’s like…
0:04:13.2 Mike Vacanti: And after like 90 seconds, he’s like, “I can’t find it, but I know it’s a rule.” I’m like, “I believe you that it’s a rule.” I go, I said, “How about this? When I’m walking around the gym, when I’m walking to the drinking fountain, I’ll put my shoes on, but I’m not wearing shoes when I train lower body.” And he goes, “Okay, that’d be great, that’d be great.” And that was the end of the interaction.
0:04:32.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s a great interaction.
0:04:34.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I was heated. When you were telling the story, I think it was on the podcast about dead lifting, and the guy kept looking at you and making faces, the guy who was on the treadmill…
0:04:44.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I was like, “Say something.” [laughter]
0:04:45.7 Mike Vacanti: And then you turned back… Yeah, yeah. I’ve had a lot of that energy in my lifts lately, which I love, it’s just this productive aggression that gets taken out on weights, but if you’re gonna step to me about my footwear choice… Honestly, it was a nice compromise.
0:05:06.3 Jordan Syatt: And just walks right in with the “Hey, buddy”.
0:05:09.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:05:09.9 Jordan Syatt: That one… Yeah, don’t “hey,” I’m not your buddy, pal. You know what I mean?
0:05:12.1 Mike Vacanti: That would have been a great response. “I’m not your buddy, pal.” Yeah. We’ll leave it at that.
0:05:22.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay, good. Well, I like how you’re like, “You know what, listen, we’ll compromise. When I’m walking around the gym, I’ll put my shoes on, but when I’m training lower body, these are staying off. Alright, friend? Okay?”
0:05:37.5 Mike Vacanti: “Okay, friend?” “You got that, young champ?” Yeah.
0:05:44.8 Jordan Syatt: “Okay, good work guy. See you later. Find it in the rule book.”
0:05:51.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I really do. I feel so much better on a lot of single leg moves, especially with, in my socks, even compared to a traditional weight lifting shoe.
0:06:04.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about ab exercises with the mats?
0:06:09.1 Mike Vacanti: They just have these super cushiony mats and the same force transfer logic where imagine doing a heavy barbell back squat with an inch of foam under your feet and being your shoes, and you have a two-second eccentric and when you’re transitioning from eccentric to concentric, you don’t have anything firm to press on, it’s much harder to brace. I actually notice it most of my lumbar, like around my lower back and hips, if I were to do that. I have training footage from 2011, 2012 when I was squatting in those kinds of shoes. [chuckle] And it’s actually not that ugly, but I ended up getting hurt as a result of it, but there are movements where I like the hard ground, a weighted pike overhead situp, even something as simple as a single-arm plank reach or a weighted plank reach, it feels better being on hard ground rather than having give in a mat.
0:07:21.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I’ve always felt the same. Whenever I coach clients in person, I would put a mat down, especially if it’s… Some clients are like, “Listen, it hurts my knees, it hurts my elbows.” Cool, I’ll give you in that. But I’m the same, for me personally, I enjoy… I prefer the hard surface.
0:07:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and in life too. I’ve actually noticed that if I’m going to be on a… If I’m watching a few episodes of something on TV, if it’s just a real chill day, I feel better if I’m laying on the ground watching that, than if I’m laying in like a real soft chair or soft couch for those three hours.
0:07:57.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I prefer the soft chair or couch for those three hours. [laughter] I would way rather lie on a comfortable sofa than on the hard ground.
0:08:06.5 Mike Vacanti: Even these, in this chair I’m in, even on these podcasts, I need this hard pillow behind me, because if I don’t have the hard pillow, I’m in lumbar flexion for an hour, and I feel like trash as a result.
0:08:20.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re also very aware of your posture.
0:08:22.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:08:22.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re very aware all the time, and you’re really good at taking breaks to do some thoracic extensions and rotations. You are much more aware of your posture than I think I am, for example.
0:08:33.9 Mike Vacanti: Well, that’s because my posture isn’t just as naturally beautiful as yours.
0:08:38.7 Jordan Syatt: All right, all right, Dale.
0:08:39.6 Mike Vacanti: Like, sometimes when I watch you sit, I just get so… All right. All right, let’s dive in. [laughter]
0:08:48.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know where that was going.
0:08:49.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t either.
0:08:53.6 Jordan Syatt: Alright, what are we diving into?
0:08:53.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s a great question. We’re gonna have some really… This is gonna be a really, really good podcast, I have a feeling… Oh, I know what I wanna dive into first. So yesterday I was scrolling through my favorite app that I enjoy consuming on, which is TikTok, and I come across…
0:09:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Mike loves TikTok.
0:09:10.9 Mike Vacanti: I come across my dear friend, Jordan, Syatt Fitness, and I’m like, “Oh Jord, let’s go. Like, what’s he doing here?” And I see him doing these rotator cuffs with the dumbbells, and then without them, an improper way to do the movement, I’m like, “Let’s go. I love it, I love it.” And I get in the comments, seeing if there’s anything witty I can say in there, there wasn’t, but I start reading what people were writing. And I found myself getting very angry. [laughter] I told you this already, but I wrote out a comment just going in on the entire comment section, because people were like, “This is your opinion,” which it wasn’t, this is… And maybe do you wanna talk about what the post was?
0:10:00.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And I’m sure most people listening probably saw it, but I have a new series that I’m doing, which people are really liking, which is “Stupid exercises you shouldn’t be doing.” And the first… The very first exercise I did, I specifically did because I was like, “There’s no way anybody can argue against this.” It’s just, this is just common sense, and it’s people who are doing dumbbell external rotations while they’re standing up. Specifically while they’re standing up. If you’re in a side lie, cool, that’s fine, but I did it standing up, because I was like, the movement is taking place in the transverse plane, the load is happening in the frontal plane, so all that’s going on is you’re loading your biceps and you’re having an isometric contraction for your biceps and your deltoids, and that’s it. You’re not working your rotator cuff, you’re not doing that at all, and it’s funny, Instagram comments were great, TikTok comments are a dumpster fire. [chuckle] And I saw the one comment that you said someone was like, “That’s your opinion,” and I was like, “Well, no, that’s a fact. Gravity isn’t an opinion.” Like…
0:11:03.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:11:03.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But that and like… I didn’t bring this up to you, I saw someone go more personal and be like, “This guy doesn’t look like he should be giving fitness advice like someone else.” [laughter] No, that didn’t make me laugh. Like, there is… I’m actually worried for my real content comeback, because part of me wanted to put my home address in the comment section and be like, “Hey, pal, come here. Like, see what happens.” [laughter] Like, getting real defensive and real angry. [laughter] And I’ve noticed this historically when someone who doesn’t know Gary at all, like, doesn’t know him personally, but takes real personal jabs at him that we know are unfounded.
0:11:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:11:46.1 Mike Vacanti: Like, I had that like… And it’s…
0:11:49.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:11:51.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna have to get real comfy with the block button, because my skin is not thick these days.
0:11:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, well, also it’s just like, it’s the whole, “You would never say that to my face.” Like, you would… You’re the kind of person that would avoid eye contact, you would walk away, or you’re the kinda person to be like, “Oh my God, I love everything you’re doing, da-da-da-dah,” but then once you’re behind a screen, you’re like… You say rude shit, right?
0:12:19.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:12:20.8 Jordan Syatt: And it’s like, the whole, if you were face-to-face, you get punched in the nose, and the Internet has given people this idea of security. So yeah, I get it. It’s funny, I was messaging a guy today, a guy messaged me today on Instagram and he was like, “Hey man, like I saw… I love your recent videos, I don’t agree with you on the burpee one, but we don’t have to agree with each other on everything. I still thought it was a hilarious video,” and he’s like, “By the way, I don’t even know how your skin is so thick, because I made a video recently about why you shouldn’t be on the treadmill incline 15 holding on for dear life onto the side rails,” and apparently someone got mad at him for that and he was like, “And I took it down,” or something, ’cause he was so upset about it. And I was like, “It’s… Yeah, it can be really difficult when people start coming at you, especially people you don’t know, you’ve never met, it can be a mind fuck.”
0:13:10.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And that is too bad that he felt that way, and I feel for him. It’s more… It didn’t… People coming at me, at you, whatever, that trigger response doesn’t make me doubt the objective reality of what the post is about. It just makes me… [chuckle] I don’t know how else to phrase it. You have very good emotional control.
0:13:34.6 Jordan Syatt: Angry.
0:13:35.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. Angry.
0:13:37.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I think it’s just… I’ve done it. Listen, there’s still times where I get really angry about it. I’ve told you, I’ve had times where… It’s funny, fitness stuff now doesn’t make me angry. Fitness stuff… I’m not nearly as emotionally charged around fitness-focused content as I am anymore, as I used to be. Someone used to say something… If I put something out about fitness content and someone was like, “You’re fucking wrong, you’re an idiot. You don’t even look like you lift.” I used to get real mad. It would ruin my entire week. Now, it’s maybe 15-20 seconds. If someone says something, it could be about Israel, for example, or World War II, or something politically or whatever it is, that charges me up very differently than… Or something about my wife. That charges me up very differently than fitness stuff does, so it’s sort of I think just that perspective that I have is like, “Oh whatever, you don’t agree with it, fine. You don’t think I look like I lift? Yeah, honestly, I really don’t look like I lift, so whatever. That’s fine.” [laughter]
0:14:35.3 Mike Vacanti: Yes, you do. You do though. You do though. That’s why I was upset ’cause that’s wrong. [chuckle]
0:14:41.8 Mike Vacanti: That makes sense. You’re not gonna argue with someone for an hour in the DMs about a nuance regarding deadlift technique, but you might have a conversation if it’s about some other topic.
0:14:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. I had a six-hour debate with someone the other night about Israel and about Ukraine and all this. A massive debate with someone who had no clue what they were talking about in terms of that stuff, and then my wife went to bed and I was up until two or three in the morning debating with this woman in South Africa who had some real antisemitic tendencies to what she was saying, and I just couldn’t handle it. [laughter]
0:15:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:15:18.8 Jordan Syatt: I was going off, and then at the end of it, I felt so stupid, ’cause I didn’t get good sleep that night. I was like, “Why didn’t I just block her and just move on with my night?” But we all have that shit.
0:15:28.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s… I think that is the answer. And I know some people on Twitter who do that very effectively, which is engage with very little of it, but just have a very quick block finger. When I would get negative feedback about anything in the 2014 to 2017 era, I was so… GaryVee imitating/had just adopted from him, kill them with kindness, that it was an auto response. I wasn’t even debating, I wasn’t arguing, I wasn’t getting mad at them. I was just like, “Hey, sorry you didn’t like this video. Hope you like the next one. Hope you have a great day. Smiley face.” But I’m not… I don’t even want to… First, for many reasons, but I just would… Am in a different mindset when it comes to how I want to interact with that person these days.
0:16:27.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, just be real about it. Just be like, tell them to fuck off, or whatever it is, just go hard and not put on a fake… ‘Cause that… Gary actually is that way. So it makes sense for him. That’s how he is. In person, if someone says… I think he would just be like, “Hey listen, you don’t have to like me. It’s okay.” But if someone did that in person to you or I, I think it would probably have a little bit more of an aggressive response back to them, so we’re gonna… That’s how we’re gonna react online.
0:16:55.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s a good point. That’s accurate. Alright, should we dive in?
0:17:02.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, let’s do it. Dive into what?
0:17:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Let’s talk about some common mistakes that coaches make when getting started with their online fitness business.
0:17:14.3 Jordan Syatt: Was this a question someone asked us?
0:17:16.1 Mike Vacanti: No, I just thought it’d make a good title.
0:17:20.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, cool. [laughter]
0:17:21.0 Mike Vacanti: What do you think of that?
0:17:23.1 Jordan Syatt: I love that. I think it’s great. Some common mistakes. I feel like we’re gonna go back over the majority of things we’ve said before. Right off the top of my head, I think one of the biggest mistakes is not having a website which I think it’s a massive mistake. [chuckle] I think there’s a lot to it, but I think not having a website is a massive mistake for a number of reasons. You’re essentially gonna be solely relying on your social media platforms, which is just a really, really bad idea. Even if you have an email list, which is… If you don’t have a website, please have an email list, but not having both of those is a huge, huge, huge, huge mistake. And the thing is, if you don’t have a website, one of the first things people are gonna do, even if you have a huge social media account, they’re gonna Google search you and go to your website, and that’s how they’re gonna apply for coaching and all that. It gives them a place where they can go and learn more about you.
0:18:28.0 Jordan Syatt: Not to mention the search engine optimization benefits, not to mention the long-form content benefits, not to mention the countless other benefits of having a website. If nothing else, when people wanna learn more about someone, they Google them and they go to their website, and to have your website be the first thing that pops up is super, super important.
0:18:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, absolutely. I think it also provides a layer of legitimacy in the social media era, having someone who has a decent looking website adds another layer of like, “Oh, this isn’t just a ‘Instagram trainer’ this person actually has a website.”
0:19:06.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s a good point.
0:19:06.5 Mike Vacanti: And not… And that’s 27th on the list of benefits of having a website. One… And this is… We all know the most common mistakes that coaches can make early on. Not having a base of knowledge or not even trying to, not spending time focusing on self-education, focusing on money and business over client success and over helping people for free, the obvious stuff that we’ve talked about before on this podcast. One uncommon mistake that just came to mind for me is spending way too much time planning and thinking of things like what my business name should be, what my logo should look like, what my… All of these random things that don’t matter, and sitting and deliberating and spending weeks and months debating internally about how you… “Should I name it this, should I name it that, should I make it my name or should I make it Vacanti Fitness or should I make it a completely different name?” Things that don’t matter slow you down. And when you’re spending time on these things that don’t matter, you… In those six months, you could have been making content, you could have been building that foundation of your business, you could have started taking on clients, you could have started learning and growing, but instead you are basically being too slow in the beginning and spending too much time on stuff that doesn’t matter.
0:20:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I agree 100%. The number of people who are like, “Oh, I just don’t know what to name my business, I don’t know what to call my website. I don’t know what handle to choose,” all that, it’s like who the fucking cares? Just make it your name and then put fitness on the back end if you want, or training systems or whatever, or performance, whatever you want, just stop, just go, just do something… I said “stop, go, just…”
0:21:02.0 Mike Vacanti: Stop debating…
0:21:02.3 Jordan Syatt: Stop thinking. Start. Go.
0:21:02.9 Mike Vacanti: And start doing. Yeah, yeah.
0:21:04.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Similar to this, on sort of the same train is a lot of coaches, they feel like they’re not ready yet to start making content, maybe they don’t think they’re smart enough, maybe they don’t think their content’s gonna be good enough, maybe they don’t think they have enough certifications, that they have enough education or whatever it is, and because of that, they get nervous about making content mainly because they get nervous about being called out for saying something wrong, for saying something incorrect, for saying something that’s not fully nuanced, whatever it is, and so they just don’t say anything at all, which is a terrible, terrible, terrible route to go because no matter what, when you very first start making content, it’s gonna suck. When you first start making content, it’s gonna be bad, when I go back and look at the content I made earlier on…
0:21:55.9 Mike Vacanti: The content is gonna be bad.
0:21:57.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s gonna be bad content, not necessarily because of your information is bad but because you’re learning the new skill of presenting information in a brief and concise manner, whether it’s website articles, whether it’s Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, podcast, YouTube, whatever it is, it’s a new skill to present content in this way, so your information might be great but the content’s gonna suck. So you should learn how to make content, and the only way you’re gonna do that is just by putting it out there, putting it out there, putting it out, putting it… And to sort of combat the fear of being called out, you can always just say like, “Hey, I’m not an expert yet, I’m still learning, I’m studying and this is what I want to do, I want to be a great coach. I’ve been wrong before, I’ll be wrong again.” I use that line all the time. I always say, “Listen, I’ve been wrong before, I’m sure I’ll be wrong again.” That sort of gets… It diffuses the situation, ’cause I think a lot of times when people… When coaches think, “Oh, I’m gonna make this content as a coach, I need to present myself as an expert,” no, you don’t.
0:22:57.7 Jordan Syatt: You don’t need to pretend like you can’t be wrong, you could be like, “Hey, I might be wrong about this in the future, research might come out and say this is incorrect or whatever, but based on what I found that works for me and my client so far, here’s X, Y and Z.” Cool, now you don’t have to worry about someone calling you out because you already said it’s potential, and people will appreciate that truth and that honesty.
0:23:17.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and you’ll feel better about making that content because it’s the truth and because you haven’t pigeonholed yourself into that position. When you say if new research comes out and it turns out that meal frequency does affect fat loss, great, if that happens in 2033, we can all say, “Hey, we did our very best based on what we know now,” but if something else comes out and we learn differently, it gives you the opportunity to change your position.
0:23:49.9 Jordan Syatt: Looking at… So my first, first, first YouTube videos from 2012-2013, where I was super nervous on camera, I wish I had said… To start the video, I wish I had said, “Hey, just so you all know, I’m really nervous making this video.” I wish I had started with that. I think number one, it would have made me way less nervous, number two is it would have been so cool to look back on now and to hear me back then just being honest about how nervous I was to be on camera, ’cause you could tell looking at me, I was red in the face, I was moving side to side, I was speaking super fast, I was clearly really nervous, but if I had just said it, it would have been cool to have that, people would have been like, “Oh, well, I respect that you’re getting out there, you’re doing this no matter what,” it would have been great to see. So just if you’re nervous about doing something, say it.
0:24:35.1 Jordan Syatt: I remember a really well-known fitness professional many years ago was always getting called out ’cause he had awful grammar in his writing. His writing was… His information was great but his grammar was just awful, it was very difficult to read, and eventually he made an entire article about basically being like, “Hey, I’m really sorry my grammar sucks, but I’m a scientist and a coach, I’m not a writer. I write to give away this information, but I’m not a writer, so I’m sorry, but this is what you’re… I’m not gonna like… This is just what it is,” and people loved it. They were like, “No, we appreciate what you’re doing anyway, thank you so much,” and then it became a joke that he could always go back to and sort of make fun of his own grammar because he knew the information was great but his grammar sucked. So, just be open and honest and start making content ’cause no matter when you start, no matter how knowledgeable you are, it’s gonna suck, so might as well get through that process of learning that skill.
0:25:32.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and then you’re going to get through… The faster you start, the faster you’re going to get through that phase, the faster you get through that phase, the faster you start building your actual online coaching business, the faster that… It’s just… Our time on this Earth is finite and so any like… There’s a balance between speed and patience because impatient short-term thinking can lead to bad outcomes, but procrastination disguised as patience isn’t good either.
0:26:05.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct.
0:26:06.3 Mike Vacanti: Speed matters in business and taking advantage of the opportunities that exist. And don’t let that pressure… Lead you to crumble or make you anxious, but let it motivate you to get started on the things that matter, and near the top of that list is starting making content and getting over that hump.
0:26:28.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, procrastination disguised as patience or perfectionism, that’s like another bit… People like, “Oh well, it’s not perfect yet, or it’s like… ” it’s never gonna be perfect. It’s sort of like the first program you ever wrote, the first work outs, they were awful. My first workout programs were so bad and not even just my first. My 100th and then my 500th. Looking back now, they were shitty programs. They got way better, but if you just never write that first program, then it’s not gonna help anybody, you’re not gonna get any better, same thing with content, whatever it is, so you just gotta start putting it out there.
0:27:08.7 Mike Vacanti: How you interact with, I’m thinking clients, but how you interact with clients and/or anyone who isn’t a client, anyone who’s consuming your content, anyone in the DMs, anyone in real life. Really, the take home or the bullet point here is read Dale Carnegie, read How to Win Friends and Influence People, because… What’s funny is the people who make the most mistakes in those types of interactions are the people who don’t know that they’re making those mistakes, and I can say that very confidently as someone who… When I listened to that audio book in the winter of 2017 for the first time, I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is revolutionary, like so many concepts and they’re a hit,” and we’re like, “Oh, I should do this, I should do this,” and they make your daily interactions go so much more smoothly.
0:28:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, agreed 100%.
0:28:13.5 Mike Vacanti: Because we see that bleed into how you communicate with your audience, how you communicate with individual clients, how you communicate with anyone in life.
0:28:24.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude absolutely. I agree, I like that one. I think… We actually had a challenge in mentorship about reading How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, one of the best books of all the time, and it was funny, I took a screenshot today, one of my professors at my old Jiu-Jitsu Academy in New York, Daniel Paulino, I screenshotted a shot from his Instagram today that I was gonna send to you, because he quoted Dale Carnegie, this is obviously a room full of people doing Jiu-Jitsu, and his caption… His caption says, Dale Carnegie said, a person’s name is to that person the sweetest, most important sound in any language, is… The importance of using their name and correctly getting their name. It’s one of the reasons why any time I do live Q&As, whether it’s with my inner circle or on Instagram or whatever it is, I’ll preface by saying, if I mispronounce your name, I apologize. Please tell me how to say it properly if I do say it incorrectly, because if I just say someone’s name incorrectly, most people take some low-level offense to it, some people a high level, but even if they know it was a mistake, there’s like, “That’s not how you say my name,” and they don’t like it ’cause it’s almost like your identity is different, it’s like that’s not who I am.
0:29:39.1 Jordan Syatt: So I’ll always say if I mispronounce it, I apologize, and I’ll start with that, because people really care about their name, it’s important. It’s like when people… One of my biggest pet peeves, I freaking hate this when I’m doing a podcast, someone invites me on their podcast, and then we talk for five or 10 minutes beforehand, and they’re like, “Alright cool, we’re gonna start recording,” and then, “Alright, I’m joined by Jordan Swatt,” and I’m like, “We just spoke for 10 minutes and you didn’t even fucking ask me how to pronounce my name, not to mention how did you get “Swa” from “S-Y”? Where the W come in? People say Swatt all the time I’m like, “Do you call it the Hwatt hotel?”
0:30:19.9 Mike Vacanti: Or why didn’t they do a little bit of research before…
0:30:23.0 Jordan Syatt: Ask.
0:30:24.8 Mike Vacanti: Or not even ask, but figure it out before you came on the podcast, find somewhere where you introduce yourself, somewhere on the internet…
0:30:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Like my podcast.
0:30:35.0 Jordan Syatt: Listen to the first five seconds of any of my podcast, I’m like, “Welcome back to the Jordan Syatt mini podcast,” like, “Cool, you get…”
0:30:42.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it shows a lack of preparation in situations like that.
0:30:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:30:50.4 Mike Vacanti: I had forgotten that one from that book, I think I need to do a re-read, especially after the way I handled the Planet Fitness manager, I think I really need a re-read of that book.
0:31:01.3 Jordan Syatt: No, I think you got what you wanted. The whole point is to get what you want out of relationships, and you got… Obviously, if you really wanted… If you really wanted, you would have been able to keep your shoes off the whole time, but even while you walked around.
0:31:16.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I guess.
0:31:17.0 Jordan Syatt: You could’ve been like, “I’m sorry, man. What’s your name? What’s your name? Oh, okay, cool, cool. Okay, yeah, I totally get it. I understand you’re probably under a lot of pressure, is it cool to you if I just keep my shoes off, I know, I just got some foot issues and I really… I feel better this way.”
0:31:33.0 Mike Vacanti: You’re a nat… This is why I call you Dale, for anyone who hasn’t listened to the first however many… 75 episodes.
0:31:39.2 Jordan Syatt: Did I tell your story when in Israel, when I got into this, I think it’s the King David Hotel in Jerusalem using this book.
0:31:47.6 Mike Vacanti: No.
0:31:48.4 Jordan Syatt: So I was 18 years old, my friend had told me to read the book, and I was reading the book and I was like, “I do all this stuff anyway.”
0:31:56.1 Mike Vacanti: This is common sense.
0:31:58.3 Jordan Syatt: This is like, I don’t understand why this is so revolutionary. So my buddies, David Gans, Michael Sanyoff, and Sam Wyler were all walking in Jerusalem, and the King David Hotel is the nicest hotel in Israel. It’s where all… If the president goes to Israel, that’s where the President stays. It’s like the Ritz-Carlton, but better. It’s like the nicest, nicest, and the only way to get in there is if you have a reservation, you can’t just walk into the lobby. You know how most hotels, you could walk into the lobby regardless, you could go in if you wanna go to the restaurant, whatever it is, the only way you get into this hotel is if you clearly have a reservation and they can confirm it at the door largely ’cause of security and all this stuff. So, we walk up there and there are security guards outside the door, who check reservations and everything, and I go like, “Watch this,” to my buddies, [chuckle] and I was like, “We’re gonna get in.” And basically, I was just like, “Hey, how’s it going?” And they’re super not happy to see me, they’re like, “Yeah, what do you want?” And I was like, “Hey guys, listen, I know that you’re on strict orders and this is probably really against what you’re supposed to do, but we’re just here on a quick trip and we would love to look around, we’ve heard that this place is amazing.”
0:33:12.4 Jordan Syatt: “And again, I understand if you can’t, if your boss is gonna get really mad at you, but if we could just look around the lot, we would love to.” And then he turns around, he looks over his shoulder, he’s like, “Alright, you can go in,” and my buddies, they freak out, and I was like, “This shit just works.”
0:33:24.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.
0:33:26.4 Mike Vacanti: Seriously, it does.
0:33:28.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:33:28.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m not surprised at all…
0:33:29.9 Jordan Syatt: It works.
0:33:30.4 Mike Vacanti: That that happened.
0:33:32.3 Mike Vacanti: I can just see you too with the shit-eating grin, looking back at your friends after he lets you in being like, “See?”
0:33:39.1 Mike Vacanti: Check it out. Yeah, it’s a great read.
0:33:45.5 Jordan Syatt: Yep.
0:33:46.6 Mike Vacanti: Should we go to questions? Or do we have any other mistakes?
0:33:51.7 Jordan Syatt: There are tons of mistakes. Let’s see. Well, staying on the Dale Carnegie topic and all this is interacting with clients in a way that… I see this all the time, where when you interact with a client, number one, it does depend on the client, some clients, they like to just be told, just very straight forward, this is it, this is right, this is wrong, dah, dah, dah, other clients, you need to be a little bit more… Have more finesse with the conversation. I’ll give you an example, a buddy of mine, this happened maybe seven or eight years ago at this point, a buddy of mine had just started doing online coaching and he had a new client come on and the client sent him a picture, or not a picture, a video of his bench press, looking for technique help and my buddy just immediately, he goes, he’s like, “Alright, we’ve got a lot of work to do.”
0:34:54.0 Jordan Syatt: And that’s how he replies it, “We’ve got a lot of work to do,” and he just goes on a list of being like, “You need to fix this, you need to fix this, you need to fix this,” boom, done, and then that guy canceled his coaching, literally that day he canceled it, which I think some people would be okay with that type of response, but a lot of people, especially people who are just working out because they want to be healthier and feel better, if you’re… If someone… If this person had been a power lifter and they’re like, “Hey, tear this apart, tell me what I need to do,” that’s one thing, but this guy, he’s just trying to work out, he’s trying to feel better, he’s trying to get stronger, he’s not trying to be a power lifter and his coach comes back and says, “We’ve got a lot of work to do and you got this wrong, this wrong, this wrong, this wrong.” It’s what I’ve always called it is the compliment sandwich, but even if in any situation, in almost any situation, you have to be aware enough that the person on the other side might be sensitive to what you’re saying and you wanna make them feel good, you want to have them leave every interaction feeling encouraged and feeling excited and feeling better and not giving up. One of my favorite quotes is, “You never wanna be the reason someone gave up, you always wanna to be the reason someone decided to try again.”
0:36:08.3 Jordan Syatt: Right? And that’s I think, a good mindset to have as a coach in forming any of your responses, especially if it’s an online interaction or a written email interaction, where sometimes tone is hard to read, it’s you… I like the compliment sandwich because if someone sends me… Let’s say someone sends me a video of a shitty bench press, awful bench press, just… There’s literally nothing that they’re doing right, I wouldn’t start by saying we’ve got a lot of work to do, I would start by being like, “Okay, this is awesome, thank you so much for sending this. I can tell your bench is gonna be super strong, let’s get to work,” and so that would be the first thing I say, and then the second thing I’d say, I’d get them one or two things to change. “Make sure you do this and I wanna see your shoulders here and your elbows here, cool. And again, great work, I’m super excited about this. Thank you for sending your video, a lot of clients never send any technique videos, so I appreciate you doing that. Thank you.” Boom, done. That’s the compliment sandwich.
0:37:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Amazing example. And notice that they had 13 things wrong with their bench, but you only gave them one or two things to change.
0:37:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct, yeah, and that’s again, coaching experience, you throw 13 things at someone, they’re not gonna do anything, so you fix one or two things at a time. And really, it’s the most important things.
0:37:18.7 Mike Vacanti: Yes.
0:37:19.3 Jordan Syatt: And by most important, it’s… By that, I mean the things that are gonna help them not get injured. So it’s like maybe they sent me a video of them bench pressing with way too much weight, I would do the compliment first and then I’d be like, “Do me a favor, let’s try lowering the weight by about 80%.
0:37:35.0 Jordan Syatt: Whatever it is, just lower the weight,” just ’cause I don’t want them to get injured, it was lucky that they didn’t kill themselves. Cool, or like, “Hey, see how you’re bringing the weight all the way down to your Adam’s apple, let’s try and bring that down to your nipple instead,” whatever it is, I just don’t want them to die or get seriously hurt, order of importance is always injury prevention first and then efficiency and performance, second.
0:37:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Perfect, and if you can find a compliment, effort is a good one, intensity, even if the technique’s not good, you can find things about it that were good and give those compliments. Yeah, that’s…
0:38:15.0 Jordan Syatt: You can always find a compliment, literally like thank you for sending the technique video, a lot of clients don’t send any of them. Yeah, that’s true. Thank you for doing this, I appreciate it. And I can tell that with work, you’re gonna be super strong with this, that’s not a lie. If someone actually puts in a lot of work, they’re gonna be really strong with that probably, so let’s go.
0:38:33.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, very important, very overlooked. Very overlooked, even amongst advice for coaches I would say, but client communication is huge, especially online, in person and online, it really matters for the psyche, the mental state, the self-efficacy of your client, their ability to or likelihood to continue and not quit, and all of these things are extremely important and them making progress and them becoming better and becoming healthier.
0:39:09.0 Jordan Syatt: Exactly, yeah, it’s exactly right. What other mistakes, you got any?
0:39:13.7 Mike Vacanti: I got one that I think is actually obvious to the mainstream, but somehow amongst coaches, we’re in this place where we’ve deluded ourselves into thinking that it’s not a mistake, and that is, as a coach, you are going to give yourself a significant advantage if you keep yourself in shape. And I know a lot of people don’t wanna hear that, and I know a lot of people will say, “But that doesn’t necessarily mean I’m a better or worse coach,” and you’re absolutely right, it doesn’t mean you’re a better or worse coach, and there are awful coaches who are jacked out of their mind and super lean and look amazing and take great pictures and are terrible coaches, and there are unbelievable coaches who look like they have never touched a weight in their entire life, that’s 100% true, but it’s like a don’t hate the player, hate the game kind of like you can’t change the mindset of an entire society. And your strength, physique, all of those things combine together and play a crucial role in your marketing, even if you’re not doing the spammy like shirtless, whatever, people just notice, people see you and think, “Oh, you look like a trainer or oh you don’t look like you’ve ever lifted before,” and that matters for how…
0:40:41.9 Mike Vacanti: All else equal, if you take two people and everything about them is the same, their knowledge, their ability to communicate, their work ethic, their consistency in posting content, all of these things are the same, but one of them keeps their own fitness in a good place and one of them let themselves go completely, person A has a significant advantage no matter how much you don’t want to think that. And by the way…
0:41:04.9 Jordan Syatt: 100%.
0:41:06.1 Mike Vacanti: Jordan Syatt circa 2017-2019 is the exception, he is not the rule. Jordan coaching Gary and traveling around the world and letting himself get a little bit soft is the exception, he is not the rule, that is not the optimal strategy, you made it work ’cause you’re a beast, but that is not optimal.
0:41:28.2 Jordan Syatt: Well, I’ll tell you what, I’ll give you… I agree with you 100%. And there’s a lot to this that… And to what I did that I think goes overlooked. The reality is this, it’s I never built my brand off of how I look, ever. I was never the guy who is like look at how buff I am, look how jacked I am, I was the guy and still am in some cases, a guy who’s like look at how strong I am and look at how athletic I am, and so even when I wouldn’t… Even though I don’t look like a bodybuilder, I’m clearly still athletic and I’m still fit, and I look like a normal athletically fit guy, and that’s what a lot of people want. A lot of people enjoy that because they don’t want or expect to look like a bodybuilder, they just wanna be fit, so what I would do… Even though I’m not like hey, look at me shirtless and all that stuff, I deliberately post videos of me doing pretty significant feats of strength and athleticism, whether it’s like near my splits or super heavy deadlifts or back flips or weighted chin-ups or whatever it is, I do these things deliberately a lot because I want people to know that I’m actually fit and I practise what I preach.
0:42:42.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I do it for my health as well as primary first and foremost, but it’s not just talking the talk, it’s walking the walk, and it’s to show people that like listen, I’m still super strong, I’m still super fit, I’m showing people I can run a sub six minute mile, all this stuff, and I still look the way I look. It’s like cool, I would love to look like that and that seems achievable for me, and also he clearly knows what he’s talking about because he’s doing some really incredible things that I don’t think I’ve ever been able to do, so it’s not just about being 3% body fat, it’s about just being athletic and fit and being… And practising what you preach, that’s the most important part.
0:43:22.5 Mike Vacanti: 100%. And you are… Not only… When I say don’t let yourself go, I don’t mean that you need to be about to step on stage, that’s not what I mean.
0:43:33.2 Jordan Syatt: Exactly, yeah.
0:43:34.5 Mike Vacanti: When I see you doing these videos of… Not exercise technique, but when you… I don’t know, I’m not on Instagram, I’ve literally probably spent an hour on Instagram in the last nine months. When I saw you uploading sets to your story or sometimes even whole workouts to your story, you not only look strong and competent and athletic doing those movements, you also look good doing those movements, you look lean and you look muscular, I’m not talking about taking a bunch of steroids and getting to 5% body fat and being a freak of nature, that’s not in the don’t let yourself go, it’s doing what we’re both doing, which is maintaining our levels of fitness, so that like you said, primarily for our own health and well-being, physical and mental, but also because it’s a form of marketing.
0:44:26.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s exactly right. Yeah, it’s exactly… It’s also… So, I think that how you look, it’s a first impression and first impressions, they matter, and if you don’t at least look fit, people will always… Even if they know that you don’t have to be fit to be a great coach, they will always be skeptical of like well, why don’t you take your own advice? Always, there will always be that level of skepticism, whether you think it’s right or wrong is irrelevant, whether it’s offensive to you is irrelevant, that will always be there in their mind. And so then you have to decide, what are you gonna do about it? And one of the cool things for me is… One of the reasons I like trying to stay fit and healthy and always improve is ’cause I always learn and it helps me come up with more content ideas, and it’s also one of the reasons why I’ve been showing my blood pressure transformation so much as well, because that’s not surface level, that’s not first impression, but when people have seen my blood pressure go from 140 systolic to 120 or less, people are like, “Oh, shit.”
0:45:28.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s something people wanna learn about, it’s like the most common request I get for content right now. But showing people these things, showing them your pant-size changes, showing them your strength level changes, showing them your blood pressure changes, showing them getting your steps in every day, these are all things you can do to show people that you’re also not just talking the talk but walking the walk. But that first impression, it’s important. It really is, it’s why “big guy at the gym” or “super-fit woman at the gym”, they get a lot of attention, even if they don’t know what they’re talking about, they’re never gonna have a shortage of clients, ’cause people will always believe them just because they look the part.
0:46:03.1 Mike Vacanti: And it gives you that initial leg up if you both are equally knowledgeable, equal in every other way, but four times as many people give you the time of day for that initial impression? That’s four times as many people who are going to start following you. Then you can prove your knowledge, then you can prove your ability as a coach. But it makes it easier.
0:46:24.1 Jordan Syatt: 100%.
0:46:24.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s almost like being very attractive in dating. Like…
0:46:28.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Gives you a leg up. For sure.
0:46:30.6 Mike Vacanti: It gives you a leg up, it gives you more initial attention. And then you can either prove yourself to be a worthy mate or not a worthy mate through getting to know somebody, but it gives you more options early on.
0:46:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly right. Which not everyone is super attractive. I’m literally… I’m like 5’4″, I’m bald. I’m not your traditional… Oh, the phrase goes tall, dark and handsome. That’s the phrase for guys. Like… Nope, nope and nope. [laughter] Right? It’s just because you aren’t looking like a bodybuilder doesn’t mean you don’t look fit and healthy for people. It doesn’t mean… And I really… I believe this now more than ever, looking like a shredded bodybuilder has become one of the most… What’s the word, the most opposite of what people want nowadays. It’s one of the most least desired. It’s one of the least desired physiques right now for general population. I’ve heard so much. And just looking at human behavior and people’s responses to stuff, it’s like the amount of people who reach out to say, “Just thank you for being okay, having a layer of fat on your stomach.” It’s like just ’cause you’re not shredded, people are like, “I believe that I can get that.” James Smith said something really funny recently that I saw get a massive response. He said he’s “Team Soft Belly.” James doesn’t have a six pack, but he wrote, “I’m Team Soft Belly.” And like clearly lifts, strong, very fit, with a slight layer of fat over his stomach, where he’s not super-shredded.
0:48:21.4 Mike Vacanti: But he has a genetic predisposition… Like that guy can have insane vascularity in his quads and still have a layer of fat on his stomach. He doesn’t have a layer of fat on his stomach because he’s 20% body fat.
0:48:31.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct, exactly. But I think it shows people are very, very, very interested in being healthy and being fit, and especially moms and dads, and people that are super busy, they’re like, “I don’t wanna fucking look like a body builder on stage.” I think they’re so much more aware now of what it takes to do that, they’re just like, “I just wanna be healthy.” That’s it.
0:48:56.7 Mike Vacanti: Especially if they’ve been there before. So they’ve experienced it and they know what it takes to maintain that. By the way, I think it’s ridiculous that you refer to yourself as having a layer of fat over your stomach. What, are you 12% body fat right now?
0:49:12.6 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know what I’m at.
0:49:13.1 Mike Vacanti: 11%?
0:49:14.1 Jordan Syatt: I’m not… Compared to a physique competitor… You know what I mean? That’s the distinction I’m making.
0:49:21.2 Mike Vacanti: Got it. It’s silly to compare ourselves to physique competitors for many reasons. The main one being because almost no one… No one is… Basically, no one is naturally maintaining that year-round, year-over-year.
0:49:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct.
0:49:37.2 Mike Vacanti: Like genetic elite few. And also it’s just not… Like what you have to do to be 5%, 6%, 7% body fat as a dude all the time isn’t worth that. But I also think it’s… On the other side of the coin, I don’t like seeing the… I’m in shock that you are referred to… First of all, everyone has a layer of fat over their stomach. No one has 0% body fat over their stomach, so it’s a continuum. You’re on the very lean side.
0:50:07.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.
0:50:07.4 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know why I get bothered by the thought of like, “Yeah, Jordan, you give me permission to feel good about maintaining 35% body fat for the rest of my life.” It’s like, that’s not…
0:50:21.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s different, obviously. Yeah.
0:50:22.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but I see what you’re saying, you’re talking about the… Literally, like people who are winning competitions, fitness models, people who are… Yes.
0:50:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, ’cause I think when most people, when most general population think of fitness, that’s what they think of. I think when a general population individual hears strength training, they think of a body builder standing on stage. That’s what their initial brain takes them to. It’s like, “Okay, cool, we’re gonna go straight, that’s what they think… “
0:50:53.0 Mike Vacanti: Magazine cover.
0:50:53.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s why they say, “I don’t wanna get too big.” It’s like, “Alright, good luck, buddy. You’re not gonna get too fucking… ” You know what I mean?
0:50:57.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.
0:50:57.9 Jordan Syatt: So I think that’s… The reason I use that example so much is because I know, for most people, that’s what they’re thinking of when we say “strength training”, when we say “fitness”, when we say “losing fat”, their initial thought is looking like that. And a lot of them don’t want to, they don’t wanna put in the work, which is like, “Cool, I don’t wanna put in that either. I have no desire to do that.” So I think it’s just people… It’s relatively new in our world to hear a fitness coach saying, “I don’t wanna look like that.” It’s relatively new to hear a fitness coach, to see pictures of a fitness coach not looking shredded, because, you know, when you and I were coming up in the industry, people would go on these insane diets and insane cutting regimens, just so that they could get a ton of pictures taken, so that they could then backlog those pictures and post them over several months. And so now with how things are, it’s relatively new for people to see fitness coaches not looking “stage ready” all the time.
0:51:58.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s absolutely true. That’s absolutely true. We’re still as a society, getting…
0:52:07.1 Jordan Syatt: Too fat.
0:52:08.4 Mike Vacanti: Fatter… Well, no, not only too fat, and getting fatter and fatter, year over year and decade over decade. So I get that fitness models and bodybuilders are symbolic of the industry, let’s say, and should maybe be removed from that pedestal, and it would be good if they were removed from that pedestal, but most people would still benefit from getting leaner.
0:52:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Yes.
0:52:32.6 Mike Vacanti: Not going from 35% to 5%. But going from 35% to 15% would do everyone a lot of good.
0:52:42.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, agreed. Yeah, 100%. And being a coach and being the physical representation of that is super-important. Being the physical representation of what you want people to achieve. And to show people that you can be 15%, 20% body fat and enjoy your favorite foods, and still be very healthy, like that’s the physical representation of it. It’s not being 35% body fat and saying, “Well, I’m great as I am.” That’s not what that is at all. That’s a lie. It’s a lie, for yourself, for everyone following you, and I actually think that end of the industry has… It peaked rapidly, and I feel like it’s coming down very rapidly. I don’t know. I know it’s still there, but…
0:53:25.5 Mike Vacanti: I hope so. We just don’t poke around in those corners of the internet anymore.
0:53:29.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, maybe I’ve just been blocked from all those pages. [laughter] Like I can’t see it anymore. [laughter] So good.
0:53:36.6 Mike Vacanti: Great episode. Thank you all for listening, and we smash weekly uploads and yeah, we hope you have a great week.
0:53:44.5 Jordan Syatt: And we’ve got a call right now with a mentorship… A mentee? Is that what we say? A mentorship client? A mentee right now…
0:53:52.6 Mike Vacanti: I think that’s the word. Brookes. Brookes is crushing it. I’m excited to chat with her.
0:53:54.6 Jordan Syatt: We do calls with people in the mentorship who have one challenge. We have a new challenge every month. And last week we did a call with Jeff Pachtman who dominated the challenge. And now we got Brookes, who we’re getting on a call with. So we’d love to see you in the mentorship. The price has increased. It is up… What is it? Initial price of $1500 and then $99 a month thereafter. So we’re super appreciative of everyone who’s in there, all the people in the mentorship who are listening, we love you, we appreciate you. We’re super proud of you. And if you are not in the mentorship, I don’t know what you’re waiting for, but you should get in there because there’s a lot going on and you’re missing out. Especially if you wanna build your business. So let’s fucking go.
0:54:39.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s true, that’s true. Have a great week. Talk to you soon.
0:54:40.9 Jordan Syatt: Have a good one.
0:54:41.2 Mike Vacanti: Bye.