Episode 79: Building Your Email List, An Advanced Weight Loss Strategy, Carb Backloading, and More…

0:00:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.6 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael? I hear you’ve got a big podcast planned for us today.

0:00:16.9 Mike Vacanti: Oh man, do I ever. We got some real ideas. We got some real questions. We’re on a strong weekly streak. We haven’t missed a weekly up, up… Upload in 2022.

[chuckle]

0:00:29.3 Mike Vacanti: Whoa.

0:00:33.4 Jordan Syatt: What just happened just reminded me of a scene from The Office where, I forget exactly what happened, I just remember Pam screwing something up, and Dwight just goes, “Did you just have a stroke? Nice stroke, Pam.”

[laughter]

0:00:50.5 Mike Vacanti: But it felt like upload, update.

0:00:51.2 Jordan Syatt: Up, upload, update.

0:00:52.7 Mike Vacanti: Still got a little Ghost energy drink coursing through my veins after the push day I just hit.

0:01:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Man, how was your work… Was your workout good?

0:01:02.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was fantastic. This week I’ve dropped volume down. I’m in Florida, family’s coming down here, more low key, more relaxing, but still a decent amount of work going on. We got the book launch in full force right now, ramping up, flooding the gates, and…

0:01:22.3 Jordan Syatt: Should we put the pre-order in the show notes? We’ll put the pre-order for the book in the show notes, Eat It.

0:01:26.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, absolutely.

0:01:28.4 Jordan Syatt: Cool.

0:01:28.6 Mike Vacanti: We would… Yes, it’s in the show notes. You know what to do. But I’m down here and my workouts have been high volume and high intensity, and as a result I think there’s something that maybe I just haven’t recognized before, but when you’re training really hard, it reduces the amount of mental energy you have for the rest of the day, meaning work performance or ability to focus. And not just after any workout, but after doing 25 hard sets in a lifting session that takes an hour and a half, two hours, like a real, real lift. At least I have less mental capacity to be working later on in the day.

0:02:12.1 Mike Vacanti: I just intuitively brought volume down yesterday. I just did three exercises, upper body pull. Today I did more exercises, but intensity was still low. Only one to two sets per exercise on an upper-body push, and I have so much more energy to be working and focused on doing things, that it feels really good.

0:02:32.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny, depending on the phase that I’m in in my own training and what I’m interested in, I can really… For example, if I’m really loving my training, which we all go through phases of loving it and not loving it, if I’m loving it, I really like doing more than is necessary, just because I like being in the gym and I like lifting and I like getting the pop. I enjoy that. I enjoy doing more. So I like being in there for 75, 90 minutes or something.

0:03:02.4 Jordan Syatt: Whereas if I’m going through a phase where I’m more focused on work or whatever it is, my workouts will all naturally decrease them to the minimum effective dose, and then that way I’m not super drained. ‘Cause if… There’s no way I can do a hard workout for 90 minutes and then be really productive after that.

0:03:21.2 Jordan Syatt: Even if I want to be, even if I loved that workout, it’s like you put in so much energy and thought and just like, you’re just drained. It feels like you’re just like apple sauce after it. You just can’t do anything.

[chuckle]

0:03:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And not necessarily for the entire day, but definitely for an hour or two.

0:03:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:03:42.0 Mike Vacanti: What is that minimum effective dose for you?

0:03:46.3 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s changed over the years. The minimum effective dose used to just be like, I could do four to six exercises and really only three of them be real intense and really compound moves and I’d be done. Now that my work capacity has improved dramatically… Well, here’s what I’ll say. I think for me right now, my cardio is more important than my strength, and what I mean by that is I could probably never lift again a day in my life and I would still be stronger than the majority of the population, and I would…

0:04:20.5 Jordan Syatt: All of the strength work that I’ve done will have reduced most of the risks that some people get from not being strong enough in their life, right? So I could probably not strength train much, if at all, for the rest of my life and still be fine. I still do it ’cause I enjoy it and I love it, but…

0:04:34.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s an interesting… I don’t wanna cut you off, but that’s an interesting… Never again strength train for the rest of your life and still retain the benefits like when you’re 70?

0:04:44.3 Jordan Syatt: Honestly, I think from… ’cause for example, one of the major tests of strength that they’ll do as people get older is like a grip strength test. Obviously, my grip strength… And grip strength is actually a really good predictor that we can find, not causation, but correlational, we can see like really strong predictors in terms of grip strength and your likelihood of being able to live a long life.

0:05:07.4 Jordan Syatt: Peter Attia has spoken about this a fair amount. But even if I didn’t lift again, which I’m not gonna do, I still lift three to four times a week, but even if I didn’t, I still think that my grip strength even until 70 would be way better than the vast majority of people. It’s like the people that they’re testing and saying, “Oh, this person, their strength was so low that they wouldn’t be able to stand up off the toilet, or their strength is so low that they’re more likely to slip and fall.”

0:05:33.1 Jordan Syatt: I think the base strength that I’ve built already would be enough to keep me above that average if I just stopped completely, and again I’m not stopping.

0:05:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay, above average. I got it.

0:05:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Yes, absolutely.

0:05:45.7 Mike Vacanti: And with a minimum effective dose of strength training, you could probably keep yourself in the top like, I don’t know if it’s 1% or 5% of the population, but yeah.

0:05:55.5 Jordan Syatt: Easy, easy, yeah. Especially with the minimum effective dose, which is… I’m doing way more than the minimum effective dose right now, ’cause I love my training, but for me right now, the minimum effective dose would just be get my cardio in for the day, and that could just be 30 minutes. That’s not difficult to do at all. Whereas minimum effective dose and strength training…

0:06:14.4 Jordan Syatt: I guess it depends on what your goal is, but for strength, I think if you’re just doing strength and no cardio, you could probably do it in about the same time frame in about 30 minutes for a minimum effective dose.

0:06:25.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, probably even less, probably like 30 to 45 minutes twice a week.

0:06:31.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:06:33.6 Mike Vacanti: I think, like you said, it depends on the person, but three sets per body part per week and relatively intense sets, it’s like yeah, that’s a solid maintenance volume.

0:06:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, so I think… Yeah, I think you’re right. Two sessions a week, 30-45 minutes max. There’s no reason to do more than 45 minutes per session, is plenty for that.

0:06:53.9 Mike Vacanti: Is is your focus on cardio right now more about jujitsu or more about health? Or is it like 50-50?

0:07:03.7 Jordan Syatt: I would tell you it’s probably equal parts both at this point. Just from the Jujitsu perspective, it’s insane how much my cardio is improved and how much… It’s so funny, I always thought that I just had genetically bad cardio, which is really funny. I always just was like, “Oh, just genetically.”

0:07:19.2 Jordan Syatt: ‘Cause no matter what, I was always super strong and I was always much stronger than other people my weight, but my cardio is never good. And I was just like, “Oh, it’s just genetically I must have really bad cardio. And now that I’ve been working on my cardio so much, I’m like, Oh no, I just didn’t fucking work on it. [chuckle]

0:07:35.2 Jordan Syatt: I just didn’t put in the effort, right? It was like my whole life, I’ve always been like, “Oo, it’s just genetically my cardio sucks.” It’s like no, I never worked on it.

0:07:45.0 Mike Vacanti: How many people do you think feel that way about various things in their life?

0:07:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Everybody in some way, like 90%, 80% of people. Yeah.

0:07:52.5 Mike Vacanti: Like, whether it’s lean mass, being lean, being good or bad, insert reading, like being good or bad at anything. It’s like, well, have you spent a number of hours a week for most weeks out of a year probably for maybe a year or two actually doing that thing? Well no. It’s like, well then how do you know?

0:08:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly. It’s so funny, ’cause I like… One of my most popular posts ever was saying like, “Listen, it’s not your genetics, it’s your effort.” But I still fall into that trap myself, right? Where it’s like, I just assumed it was my genetics with cardio. It’s like, no. Well, now that I’m doing an un-godly amount of cardio, it’s like, well okay, I’ve improved dramatically.

0:08:32.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that makes sense.

0:08:35.1 Jordan Syatt: Also, Mike and I used to do our breath holds together. Alex Viada has been programming breath holds for me. I hit a new record for how long I held my breath the other day.

0:08:44.2 Mike Vacanti: You know what’s so strange? I’m getting so competitive and slightly angry right now. Just…

0:08:50.2 Jordan Syatt: Why?

0:08:51.5 Mike Vacanti: ‘Cause I don’t want it to be higher than mine.

[laughter]

0:08:54.5 Mike Vacanti: And that’s so weird, because historically like I’m less competitive…

0:09:00.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re not the competitive one.

0:09:00.8 Mike Vacanti: And you’re more competitive, but I’m realizing that I’m competitive about strange, obscure things.

0:09:04.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s so true. You’re competitive about the weirdest stuff.

[laughter]

0:09:08.4 Mike Vacanti: Go ahead, tell me.

0:09:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Two minutes two seconds.

0:09:11.4 Mike Vacanti: Wow. That’s amazing.

0:09:12.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Crazy, right?

0:09:14.4 Mike Vacanti: You know what. By the way, that’s higher than mine. The second you told me that I genuinely, the only emotion I felt was happy for you.

0:09:24.2 Jordan Syatt: Thanks bro.

0:09:24.3 Mike Vacanti: Genuinely. And I’m dead serious, I expected to be pissed if it was higher than mine. Mine was a minute 45 seconds when I was like 13 years old. But wow, over two minutes is insane.

0:09:35.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I was freaking out. It was crazy. It was really, really, really crazy, so I’m stoked about it. And when I first started, it was just around 1:10 I think, so it’s improved almost 2x.

0:09:45.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s an insane increase. Not over that large a… What, four months?

0:09:49.0 Jordan Syatt: No, a few months. Yeah, four months or so. Yeah.

0:09:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Crazy. And only one day a week of breath holds?

0:09:54.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, just one day a week. Crazy.

0:09:57.0 Mike Vacanti: Alright. Alright. I might have to sign up for a breath hold program. Any breath hold coaches out there, let me know. Seven days a week of breath hold. [laughter]

0:10:08.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s really good. Wow. Good for you.

0:10:10.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. What else do you wanna talk about today?

0:10:13.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I got a list. Jordan, tell me what you think about the Epicurean lifestyle?

0:10:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I’m a big fan of the Epicurean lifestyle, which I only know about because of you, when you and I were in Florida writing the book a couple of years ago, which is crazy that was a couple of years ago, and you’re like, “Man, this Epicurean lifestyle, this is it. Work in the morning, get all of our stuff done.” Well, you’re not a big drinker, but have some wine later in the day, relax. Would you have some wine as part of your Epicurean lifestyle?

0:10:41.7 Mike Vacanti: Only because I’m such a fan of the idea of the Epicurean lifestyle that I would sip a glass of wine in the afternoon, just to partake in the Epicurean lifestyle.

0:10:50.6 Jordan Syatt: Love that. Yeah, cool.

0:10:54.2 Mike Vacanti: There’s… No one can do real concentrated knowledge work, real deep work, real focused work for an entire day.

0:11:02.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:11:02.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t care who you are, I don’t care what you’re doing, you can’t sit down at 6 o’clock in the morning and for 16 hours straight write an article for your website and be productive for that entire 16 hours. No one can do that. There have been periods of time where you can get away with more or less depending on what else you’re doing in life, but working for a chunk of the day very hard, very focused, very deep, very uninterrupted, and then having intentional time off, intentional relaxation, intentional recovery, a period of time where you don’t feel guilty about the fact that you’re not working, is a really cool idea.

0:11:37.4 Mike Vacanti: And yeah, we were. We went hard in the morning writing the book, and then in the afternoon, we had the pool and the hot tub, it was a nice day and just relaxing. It’s an idea that’s really attractive to me, especially as I think about getting older, and just like a sustainable way to derive meaning from work and really enjoy it and have real consistency there, but also not pushing yourself so hard that you burn out or dislike it or whatever the case may be.

0:12:08.4 Jordan Syatt: I feel like you’ve been doing that. I mean, you wake up super early, you wake up between 05:00 and 06:00 usually. You’re crushing emails, you get a lot of work done early in the morning. I mean, you already made a YouTube video and posted it recently, so you’re making content.

[chuckle]

0:12:23.8 Mike Vacanti: Thanks. “You made a YouTube video.”

0:12:24.5 Jordan Syatt: Like, you get your work done early in the morning, and aside from the anger recently that you had I think last week, and then you worked at night, usually I think you’re done-ish by the afternoon, right?

0:12:35.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s true, that’s true. I think maybe if we wanna build on the optimal Epicurean lifestyle, the afternoon would include like, I just picture some philosopher 400 BC is sitting with his friend eating grapes and drinking wine and sitting by the… I don’t know if it was a pool and talking about the meaning of life in the afternoon, and seeing their kids running around and playing and petting the dog or whatever the…

0:13:05.3 Mike Vacanti: Just a very relaxed afternoon and working in the morning. And then scrolling TikTok in the afternoon with bad posture and your neck cranked laying on the couch for an hour and a half. That doesn’t feel as…

0:13:18.2 Jordan Syatt: Not Epicurean.

[chuckle]

0:13:19.6 Mike Vacanti: No, no.

0:13:23.1 Jordan Syatt: So you wanna eliminate electronics in the afternoon and just hang out with family, friends, relax?

0:13:29.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I wouldn’t say eliminate, I think that’s… But reduce. And yeah, sun being outside, it’s easier to do in certain climates, obviously.

0:13:42.3 Jordan Syatt: You can’t do that in Minnesota all the time, though.

0:13:44.6 Mike Vacanti: Minnesota summers are incredible, but that’s correct, there’s… I could go play some hockey in the afternoon, a little pond hockey, and in a little January afternoon. I don’t know who I can get to play with me at 04:00 PM on a Wednesday.

0:13:57.4 Mike Vacanti: I can play. I’ll come play hockey with you.

[laughter]

0:14:03.1 Mike Vacanti: I love hockey.

0:14:03.8 Mike Vacanti: You looked so excited when you said that. I know you love hockey.

[laughter]

0:14:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Have you been watching any playoff hockey?

0:14:08.9 Jordan Syatt: Honestly, no, I haven’t. It’s one of those things that I really want to get into. I really want to start watching more hockey. I’ve said that in my head a number of times recently, I just want to start getting into that. The hard part for me is like, it’s difficult for me to really get into professional sports outside of fighting stuff. I don’t know why. It’s really difficult for me. I love watching hockey, I love the skill of it, but it’s difficult for me to really get into team sports. I don’t know why that is.

0:14:37.4 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.

0:14:39.9 Jordan Syatt: I’ve never been a big like…

0:14:42.8 Mike Vacanti: You never played team sports?

0:14:44.9 Jordan Syatt: I did, I played baseball and soccer.

0:14:45.0 Mike Vacanti: Until what age?

0:14:46.7 Jordan Syatt: I played baseball until my freshman year of high school, and soccer until my sophomore year of high school.

0:14:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Oh, okay. And then wrestling, an individual sport was the bigger focus obviously?

0:14:58.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

0:15:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I… Look, if you don’t want to, then don’t.

0:15:04.0 Jordan Syatt: I do, and I’m gonna start getting into the hockey.

[laughter]

0:15:09.1 Mike Vacanti: You liked…

0:15:09.2 Jordan Syatt: Big Bruins fan.

0:15:10.5 Mike Vacanti: Nice, nice.

0:15:11.5 Jordan Syatt: Couldn’t name a single player on the Bruins, but big Bruins fan.

0:15:16.3 Mike Vacanti: There’s too many… Yeah, a Boston guy. There’s too many games in the NHL, major league baseball, basketball, there’s too many games from… I love Michael Jordan, but I never watch basketball, or neither did I ever watch basketball historically, I just like the idea and like the athlete. But it’s a massive time commitment. If you wanna have a team and follow the team. The reason the NFL is was easier to follow is ’cause there is was only 16 games.

0:15:43.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

0:15:44.9 Mike Vacanti: No, now they are 17 games, but it’s like… It’s a shorter…

0:15:45.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, they’re 17 now?

0:15:48.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. They added a week.

0:15:49.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay.

0:15:51.1 Mike Vacanti: Last year, I think. But it’s a reasonable time commitment. It’s a 50-hour a year time commitment compared to a 500-hour a year time commitment.

0:16:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. And for football, your whole Sunday is taken up, like if you wanna go to the game and stuff, it’s a lot a day.

0:16:09.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, if you wanna go, yeah, yeah, that’s true. Alright, what else do I have here? Jordan, what do you think of this as an advanced weight loss strategy? So not to be used with beginners, having someone on a high-calorie, high-activity regimen?

0:16:35.5 Jordan Syatt: So basically asking, can you outrun your fork? The common phrase is that you can’t, right?

0:16:43.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:16:45.4 Jordan Syatt: Unpopular opinion is that you absolutely can. You can 100% outrun your fork, you can absolutely do enough cardio even if you’re eating in a caloric surplus to put yourself in a deficit through activity. It’s not ideal for the vast majority of people, especially people who live in a regular lives, you’ve got kids or you’ve got work, whatever it is. If you can’t spend at least probably two hours a day doing cardio, then it’s a really bad idea.

0:17:17.0 Jordan Syatt: But for someone who’s very advanced or even we could take it from the perspective of, let’s say, someone is an elite athlete in a more cardio-based sport. So not baseball, but I don’t know, maybe they’re a cyclist, right? And they’re doing cycling for several hours a day, they would absolutely probably need to eat in a calorie surplus, and even though they’re in a calorie surplus, they could still lose weight if they’re eating enough to… Above their… If they’re eating more than they would… I’m trying to think of how to phrase it ’cause technically speaking, they wouldn’t be in a calorie surplus.

0:17:52.3 Mike Vacanti: They’re in a deficit.

0:17:52.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but you know what I mean. They would have to eat a significant, significant amount above their, above their basal metabolic rate in order to… You know what I mean?

0:18:03.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. If they were doing a normal amount of activity, they would be gaining weight, so that they would be in a surplus, but with the fact that we’ve ramped up exercise so aggressively, has actually on those days put them in a deficit. Even though if you look at their statistics, it’s like, “Oh, this person’s maintenance is 3000 calories and we have them eating 4200 calories, but they’re doing so much activity that they’re actually burning 4700 calories per day.”

0:18:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And you just explained that way better than I did, so yeah, that’s exactly right.

0:18:37.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s a… It’s really… It’s a cool idea for the sliver of the population who want to do it, and who want to do it and can do it.

0:18:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

0:18:49.7 Mike Vacanti: Right? Like you just mentioned, it’s not convenient for someone who doesn’t enjoy exercise, it’s not convenient for someone who is busy with work and kids and literally can’t commit that many hours to exercise. But for people who can and want to, it’s a cool idea because getting to eat that much makes life more enjoyable.

0:19:06.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:19:07.6 Mike Vacanti: And all of that exercise is assuming you have the proper mindset with it, right? Like 15 or 16-year-old you, for example, or someone who would be doing the cardio potentially for the wrong reasons mentally, compared to someone who knows that, is comfortable with who they are, in a good place, and genuinely wants the exercise and wants the health benefits from the exercise.

0:19:32.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:19:33.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s really cool.

0:19:34.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, doing it as a punishment or as a way to earn more food, so that literally the entire time you’re doing cardio all you’re thinking about is what you’re gonna binge on, is a really bad idea. But if you’re doing it from a performance perspective and/or a health perspective and/or enjoyment perspective, and just as a byproduct you can then eat more, it’s fantastic.

0:20:00.0 Jordan Syatt: And not to mention, this is a strategy that we often use with women who are very small and petite, in which taking their calories lower is like… It’s… You can’t take like if it’s a super small woman, 1200 calories, I’m not taking her to 1100, right? So maybe we’ll increase their activity to burn more calories.

0:20:19.4 Jordan Syatt: Which is literally, it’s the exact same concept in a different situation, where rather than taking their actual calorie intake lower, we’ll increase their calorie output so they can eat more. It’s the same exact concept, it’s just in a different situation.

0:20:32.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. What made me think of that was, last night I had these delicious fish tacos with a whole serving and a half of really good French fries, and these kinda club cracker crisp chips that are higher fat. They’re basically chips, they’re not crackers because of the fat to carb ratio, and they’re delicious. And more than I would normally eat at night. And this morning… And I have a hypothesis about this because I’ve noticed this before.

0:21:03.4 Mike Vacanti: This morning, I was able to consume more caffeine, stay more focused, not get hungry until later in the day, and was able to do computer work for a longer amount of time. Now, there could be other factors, getting sun yesterday when I haven’t been recently, whatever it might be.

0:21:23.1 Mike Vacanti: But I hypothesize that my brain glycogen stores when eating in a surplus and specifically getting a solid amount of carbs, are higher the next morning leading to a greater ability to focus, than if I’m in a slight deficit the day before, stop eating at 7:00 PM, wake up at 6:00 AM, have coffee, drink some water, and my brain glycogen is more depleted.

0:21:50.8 Mike Vacanti: And by the way, I have no idea of how relevant brain… Carb storage in the brain, which tops off at about 50 grams per person. It’s a very… We have blood carb storage, muscle carb storage, brain carb storage, liver carb storage, and muscle is the highest by far. Brain glycogen is the second, I believe.

0:22:13.8 Mike Vacanti: But I don’t know how correlated that actually is with ability to concentrate and focus, but yeah, so I may be playing with… Remember the carb backloading strategy where you would eat more carbs at night for training performance the next morning?

0:22:30.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah.

0:22:30.8 Mike Vacanti: Which actually has some… You’re making a face, but I think it has some merit to it. From an enjoyment perspective, meaning like the classic Martin Berkhan, like get you done during the day and then eat more later on, as well as just having… Being able to enjoy a bigger, higher calorie dinner is appealing, especially if my sample size continues of times where I feel really good and get really good work done in the morning.

0:23:02.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I just remember carb backloading, that was huge at the gym that I worked at at a college. And they so misrepresented what it was actually supposed to be, and just turned it into this massive binge eating fest with like… I just remember these people, just like coaches and people at the gym just being like, “Yeah, carb backloading!” and just binging on Oreos and Twinkies and all this stuff, and then they would fast for a super long time. It was literally watching binge eating disorder be created right in front of my eyes. It’s like, “This is absolutely terrible.”

[chuckle]

0:23:33.2 Jordan Syatt: And they’re promoting it with the clients of the gym doing the same thing. It was really bad.

0:23:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, not. That’s not what it is. I actually, I don’t know the technical definition, nor did I follow the program, nor was I even… ‘Cause that was pre-2010, right?

0:23:49.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

0:23:51.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, wait…

0:23:52.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s when it came out, yeah.

0:23:53.6 Mike Vacanti: Around 2010?

0:23:54.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:23:54.6 Mike Vacanti: I was just under the impression that its actual intention was, say you’re gonna have 300 grams of carbs in a day, rather than having 100 at breakfast, 100 at lunch, 100 at dinner, you’d have 50 at breakfast, 50 at lunch, 200 at dinner, thereby increasing your muscle glycogen storage the following morning. Supposedly.

0:24:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Could be. Well, I wanna hear how it goes for you.

0:24:24.4 Mike Vacanti: I mean, you’ve been this high-carb, high-fiber guy recently, so I thought maybe you’d have some interesting insights or input or…

0:24:32.5 Jordan Syatt: You know, it’s funny, my concentration improves with lower carbs. When I don’t eat carbohydrates, my concentration is significantly better, but it’s not worth it to me to reduce my carbs in order to concentrate better, so I still eat super high carb. But like [chuckle] I’ve… It’s so funny, the best concentration I’ve ever had in my entire life was when I did the Carnivore diet from that YouTube video. That was by…

0:25:01.7 Jordan Syatt: And I spoke about it. I was like, “Listen, this has been the worst experience from a diarrhea perspective, from a blood pressure perspective, from a performance in the gym perspective, every aspect of my life was worse when I did that, except my concentration was unbelievable.” And there’s a lot of documented cases of that for people who go very low carb for their…

0:25:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Especially if they have ADD or something along those lines, where it’s been shown that you can actually help improve concentration dramatically with that type of a diet. But when I’m weighing out the pros and cons, I’m like, “I don’t give a shit.”

0:25:34.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:25:35.0 Jordan Syatt: It is not worth it for me to eliminate all of these foods just so I can concentrate a little bit better. Or even a lot better, just not worth it.

0:25:43.8 Mike Vacanti: Not to mention, you have found an avenue where the type of work you do, you enjoy more than the average person, meaning you’re not in a position where you need to sit down at a desk for eight consecutive hours and do work that you don’t wanna do that you really need to hyper-concentrate on.

0:26:02.8 Jordan Syatt: Thank God. I would be so fucked if I had to do that.

0:26:06.3 Mike Vacanti: Even a few hours a day. You’re such a conversationalist that, can you imagine swapping every podcast you’ve ever done with some… Or even just like a…

0:26:17.4 Jordan Syatt: Spreadsheets?

0:26:19.9 Mike Vacanti: I was gonna say some tedious, I don’t know, research task that you were given or something that wasn’t even communication-based, but it was just like, yeah spreadsheets, we’ll call it.

0:26:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Spreadsheets. Yeah, just put all these in a spreadsheet. Oh my God. Dude, think what a blessing.

0:26:38.2 Mike Vacanti: I actually agree with you anecdotally on the low carb, like that Berkhan “fast in the morning, have coffee,” I have better concentration than if I eat breakfast and try to work. Absolutely. But that’s why I wonder if having more carb storage from the night before, so it’s not like I’m getting the immediate effect of morning carbs, it’s what I had that… I don’t know.

0:27:00.0 Jordan Syatt: And you’re not having… I think one of the major things is you’re not having a blood sugar spike, so your blood sugar isn’t spiking and dipping, which can I think can help with concentration. So you have that storage of glycogen from the night before, so you’re not depleted, but you also don’t have the blood sugar spikes and dips, which I think can help you concentrate and keep a more level energy.

0:27:21.0 Mike Vacanti: I think you hit the nail on the head so succinctly, I’d like to clip that and play it for myself every morning.

[chuckle]

0:27:28.5 Mike Vacanti: I really think that’s it.

0:27:30.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny, that’s been one of the things about the type of carbohydrates I’ve been eating, a lot of the whole grains, a lot of higher fiber stuff, I’ve just noticed more sustained energy, as opposed to the whole “it fits your macros” crowd is just like, “Eat whatever you want,” dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

0:27:48.6 Jordan Syatt: When I really fell into that world, my energy and all over the place. I get really hyped up and then I would get a crash from whatever, just like my blood sugar was all over the place. Now, it’s much more even-keeled throughout the day. I still have treats and I enjoy them, but not as much as the IIFYM crowd is just like, “Yeah, whatever you want. Like the quality doesn’t matter ever.” It’s a really shitty idea.

0:28:11.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Or the hucksters in that crowd who are actually eating 90% or 80%… Yeah, yeah. Healthy, unprocessed foods, and then only posting the crap.

0:28:22.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

0:28:23.7 Mike Vacanti: Great for marketing. Great phenomenal marketing. Not necessarily optimal…

0:28:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Great, phenomenal, skeezy marketing. [chuckle]

0:28:37.7 Mike Vacanti: Effective, scummy marketing. Okay, let’s talk business. We got the business question of the day.

0:28:45.8 Jordan Syatt: Let’s do it. What is it?

0:28:48.4 Mike Vacanti: “Do I need an email list for my business? Why or why not?”

0:28:53.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s a good question.

0:28:55.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:28:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Do you wanna start off with this one?

0:28:57.6 Mike Vacanti: I was just gonna say it’s a great question, especially in an era where what people see is flash and sizzle and virality and followers and likes and engagement, and so much public facing on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter, on Facebook, on all social media platforms. Whereas the benefits of an email list go unnoticed to basically anyone who doesn’t have an email list. So I completely understand the question, especially in this day and age.

0:29:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, I get it. There’s a lot to talk about here. I’ll start by saying this, rather than discussing theory, I’m just gonna give a practical example. I just ran a launch for the Inner Circle, every year I do a 30% off right around my birthday and Mother’s Day, and the vast majority of sales… Actually, you know what, I’ll read you the analytics right now, the vast majority of sales were made through my email list. Not from Instagram, not from…

0:30:01.6 Mike Vacanti: Text.

0:30:02.3 Jordan Syatt: Text did really well. But I consider text the same thing, even though it’s obviously it’s not, text and email are different, I still consider text the same… It’s not social media. Text is, it’s your list, you have complete access to them. And that’s the main difference between texting and…

0:30:22.3 Jordan Syatt: Or text/email and social media, is text/email, you have access to them any time. I can send a text to any number on my list, to all the numbers on my list, any time of day, I could send an email to all my emails, any time of day and I know they’re gonna get it. They open up their inbox, it’s gonna be there. I can make a post on social media, a story or whatever, and not everyone’s gonna see it at all. For any number of reasons, whether it’s the algorithm, whether… Who knows? There could be any number of things.

0:30:47.4 Jordan Syatt: But I regularly get people being like, “I haven’t seen your posts come up in my feed in months. I know what’s going on.” Or, “I tried searching your name, but I can’t find you in the search bar,” whatever it is. A lot of people just won’t see your stuff. But when you have a text or an email list, you have access to them always, it’s always gonna be in their inbox.

0:31:03.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, to use your analogy, when you only build your business on social media, you build your house on someone else’s lawn.

0:31:12.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct, exactly. Yup. And you don’t wanna build your house on someone else’s lawn. You wanna own your house on your lawn. And if you have rental properties on other people’s lawns like cool, that’s fine. That’s sort of what Instagram is and YouTube and Twitter and Facebook. These really sort of rental properties that are on other people’s… You’re renting it out. You’re renting it out, you’re a tenant.

0:31:33.8 Jordan Syatt: But you’re not the owner. You can’t just knock the house down or whatever. And if the owner decides, “You know what, I want to live here, you have to leave, I’m not renewing your lease,” then you have to get out, that’s how it works. Whereas your email list is your list, your text list, it’s your list. You can do whatever you want with it any point in time.

0:31:53.9 Jordan Syatt: So I’m looking at my email list right now, so this sent… Actually, I’m really stoked about this. This sent to about 84,000 people. It has a 40… It has a 573% open rate, which is crazy high.

0:32:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Wow, wow.

0:32:14.4 Jordan Syatt: So just so everyone understands… It would actually be really cool to break down this email. But in the fitness industry, an open rate of 20% to 30% is very good. If you’re below 20%, you’ve got some real issues with your email list. Maybe your subject lines are shit, your emails are shit, there could be any number of things going on. But at least 20 and up to 30 is an industry standard of good. Most people are under 20.

0:32:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Now, the majority of my emails fall between… Let me look at my percent. They fall between… Yeah, they’re pretty good. They’re usually between 28% to 34%. What’s important to keep in mind though is I don’t email very often. If I was emailing several times a week, it probably would drop to about like 20% to 30% on average, so close to 25%. It has never dipped below 20% ever. But because I email only several times a year now, my open rates are higher because it’s just not as often.

0:33:16.5 Jordan Syatt: So this one had a 57% open rate. And I’m gonna tell you, it had a 57.3% open rate, a 2.7% click rate. So that means that 47,900 people opened it, and 2,200 people clicked on the link in there. Now, there’s a lot that’s interesting about this. A lot of the people who are still using the sale and joining Inner Circle with this sale, they are opening the email multiple times, and they just signed up like today, for example. So there’s still new sales coming in even though I sent this email two days ago.

0:33:51.7 Jordan Syatt: No one is going to my Instagram story from a couple of days ago and still signing up, because the Instagram story is gone. Even if I made the post on my Instagram feed, they would have seen it once and then left, they might not have even read the whole Instagram post. People are way more likely to read an email than they are an Instagram post for any number of reasons, but not least of which on an email, that’s the only thing on their screen. That’s all they’re looking at.

0:34:12.6 Jordan Syatt: On Instagram, they’re deliberately looking for the next, the next, the next thing, they don’t have as much attention span. And that’s by design on that platform. The email design is to read the whole thing. So they’re more likely to read it and click it and maybe save it for later and go back to it. So this email, even though I sent it a couple of days ago, is still bringing in sales for me today.

0:34:31.8 Mike Vacanti: Not to mention, almost everyone who is subscribed to your email list saw that email. Whether they opened it or not, it showed up in almost every single person’s face. Whereas probably less than half, I don’t know, not everyone saw the Instagram post. If you posted on Facebook, a very small percentage of the people who like your Facebook business page, saw it on Facebook.

0:34:56.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Exactly. Now, I will say part of the genius of this email was the subject line. So Mike, did you see this email?

0:35:09.6 Mike Vacanti: I did, I don’t remember the subject line.

0:35:12.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay, so this is just something I’ve learned from years of writing emails and copywriting. But also this is just human psychology. This is basic human behavior. Before I tell you what the subject line was, I’m sure many of you might have seen it. But I want my emails to be as… Basically, I want them to be as though they’re coming from a friend. I don’t want my emails to seem as though they’re coming from a company.

0:35:36.8 Jordan Syatt: A lot of people, when they have a business, they’ll put their logo in their emails and they’ll try and make it look really fancy and different writing styles. I hate that. I want my emails to look like it’s just from a… Coming from a friend. A normal, blank, white backspace, regular black font, nothing crazy. It should be like it’s coming from a friend.

0:35:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Because if they see it with a company’s logo, and it looks very different, they’re immediately putting up a defense. Always. It’s like, “Oh, this is a company, this is a sale, this isn’t a friend of mine.” So I want it to look like it’s coming from a friend. So that’s why there’s nothing fancy in it.

0:36:10.8 Jordan Syatt: The subject line is not something that looks like it’s coming from a company. It’s not like, “Flash sale.” I don’t say that. I’m not doing “flash sale” or any of that nonsense. ‘Cause, that’s… A friend would never email you that with a subject line. Or a friend would never text you to like, “Flash sale”. It’d be like, “Hey bro, new sale”. Like, “Hey bro, you get 30% off whatever it is.”

0:36:35.2 Jordan Syatt: So my subject line for this email, it was literally just “thank you” with their first name. So when you have an email list, you have the ability to put their first name in. So there’s a code that you can use so when they see it, it says, let’s say your first name is Mike, you see the email it says, “Thank you, Mike.”

0:36:51.5 Jordan Syatt: So the subject line is literally like, “Thank you.” And that’s it. And the reason I started doing that, actually found there’s two really great subject lines that get ridiculous open rates. Number one is “thank you”, and the other one is “I’m sorry”. Mike, you knew I was gonna say that, right?

0:37:07.1 Mike Vacanti: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

0:37:08.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So they’re both great. You have to be very careful, and sparing with how much you use them. ‘Cause if you say “thank you” every fucking time, or “I’m sorry” every time, they’re gonna understand like that’s what you’re trying to do. But I realized that if someone says thank you to me, I want to know why they’re saying thank you. If someone says “I’m sorry,” I want to know why they’re saying “I’m sorry”. So I’m going to open that email and go from there.

0:37:29.9 Jordan Syatt: So it’s so funny, it’s such a simple, easy subject line to use. The subject line I used before that so I have “thank you”. The subject line I used in the previous email was, “Long time no talk.” That was my previous subject line. Another subject line I recently used, it was literally just “Coffee, coffee, coffee,” I put that in the subject line. Another one was, “Do you wanna try this new workout?” Another subject line was, “Relax, have fun.” It’s these simple, easy things that you would probably use with your friend.

0:38:01.8 Jordan Syatt: So that’s what I try and do. And I’m not gonna get into the ins and outs of the actual email, but as long as you understand that even with my audience size and engagement on social media, the vast majority of these sales came from my email. It’s so so so important to understand that your email list is essential.

0:38:24.4 Jordan Syatt: There are many people who say email is more important than social media, and there are other people who say social media is more important than email. As with everything, it’s more of a gray area. They both operate and work better when you do them both than either one alone.

0:38:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Transaction versus branding. It’s hard to build a brand… Harder to build a brand via email unless you’re a real elite writer. It’s easier to build brand and goodwill on social media, but sales and transactions happen in email. Give us the, what percentage of the total sales happened on email plus text?

0:39:00.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know the total number of percent, but… So the texting list that I have, I don’t have the phone with the texting list on me. But I have about 27,000 people on that list. So I have the 27,000 there, then I had the 84,000 on email. Just the overwhelming majority came from those two things, it’s just without a question. There were some sales on social media, but it’s…

0:39:23.8 Mike Vacanti: But that’s 84 plus 27, we’re talking a little over 100,000 compared to 800k. And the majority came from the smaller audience, is nuts.

0:39:36.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s actually a really good point. Because on my Instagram story, I got about 120,000 views on that specific story with a link to my sale. So 120,000 people saw that. But we know only about 50% of the email subscribers saw that, so instead of it being 84,000, it was about 40,000. And I don’t know what percentage of the 27,000 text subscribers.

0:40:01.1 Jordan Syatt: But even if all of them did, which they didn’t, it’s still way fewer people seeing that message via email and text, but a higher percentage actual converting to a sale. So 100,000 people seeing your Instagram story isn’t anywhere near as powerful as 40,000 people seeing your email, which is like if that doesn’t encourage you to get your email list.

0:40:23.0 Jordan Syatt: And you don’t have to have those numbers. It’s 1000 people seeing your Instagram story is not as powerful as 500 people getting your email. It’s super, super important to realize that. So that you… And this is just talking about sales, it’s not even talking about the safety and security of your business, making sure, God forbid if your account gets shut down, you still have access to people, you could still contact them.

0:40:45.2 Jordan Syatt: But from a actual sales perspective and making more money and building your business, an email list is… I would say, if I had to choose between one or the other, I can’t do it. Actually, I can’t. I was gonna try and say it, but I used to go with email, and then I went social media, and now I do both. And both are better than either alone. So just make sure you have both.

0:41:08.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s sort of like if your client said, “Should I do cardio or weight lifting?” It’s like, “Well, you should do a little bit of fucking both. That’s why I put it in your program. You should make sure you’re getting your steps, and you should make sure you’re lifting weights. Don’t just do one.”

0:41:19.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, 100%. We could talk about email list for three straight hours. We did do a podcast with Pat Flynn where we went in-depth on email list. If you wanna dig back in the archives and find that one, it was at least a year ago.

0:41:34.8 Jordan Syatt: I think it was two years ago now, ’cause I’m pretty sure I was in Boston at the beginning of COVID when we did that.

0:41:40.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I bet it was about two years ago exactly, yeah. Yup. Great episode. Weekly uploads.

0:41:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Is that it? Are we done?

0:41:51.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s it. That’s it. I got a real email coming out soon. You’re gonna like that subject line.

0:41:55.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow. What subject line are you gonna use, “thank you”? “I’m sorry”?

0:42:00.5 Mike Vacanti: No, neither. Neither.

0:42:00.6 Jordan Syatt: I bet you’re gonna use “I’m sorry”.

0:42:01.7 Mike Vacanti: Nope, it’s a new one.

0:42:03.8 Jordan Syatt: Did you… You didn’t email your list when you published your YouTube video, did you?

0:42:07.2 Mike Vacanti: I did not.

0:42:08.5 Jordan Syatt: Why is that?

0:42:10.6 Mike Vacanti: Because I just talked about myself for 27 straight minutes, and I’m not gonna bother people on email with that. People who want to find it are gonna find it. They’re subscribed to YouTube, they saw it. I don’t need to bother someone who hasn’t heard from me in a year and a half, doesn’t listen to the podcast, is just on the email list, and be like, “Hey, here’s a 27-minute video about why I haven’t been making content.” They’re like, “I don’t care, I didn’t even notice you weren’t making content.”

0:42:32.6 Mike Vacanti: That wasn’t the person I’m trying to reach. When I’m gonna cold hit these people who I haven’t spoken to or interacted with in years, they’re gonna get something beneficial and valuable. It’s not just gonna be a pretty legit whiteboard video, if you ask me. But it was just about myself. It wasn’t of benefit to most.

0:42:51.8 Jordan Syatt: Educational.

0:42:51.8 Mike Vacanti: There is business education in there, actually. Through… The way that you just spoke about what happened with your sale was talking about something you did but was educational for someone with that mindset. But Johnny Bag o’Donuts who just wants to add a little lean mass and see his abs in the summer, he doesn’t care that I didn’t make content. So that’s why I didn’t email my list.

0:43:13.2 Jordan Syatt: But you would recommend people… Let’s talk about this for a couple of minutes. When do you recommend people email their list, with like if they’re just starting to build their list? Or let’s say that they already have a list, how often or when should they, if they put out content, should they email their list, their content? What do you think?

0:43:32.0 Mike Vacanti: You really wanna go in-depth and go overtime. That’s an interesting J move by you here. But I’ll bite. I would… Okay, so there’s so many places we can go with this. When you’re building your email list initially, you wanna spend the majority of your time not making specific content for your email list. By the way, this is something we go super in-depth on on the Email List Essentials course, which I believe is course number six in the mentorship. But just a sneak taste, try to summarize a part of it. You don’t wanna spend…

0:44:03.2 Jordan Syatt: No, course number five. Course number six is How to Become a Better Writer. I’ve got it up on my thing right now. [chuckle]

0:44:08.5 Mike Vacanti: Okay, alright. It’s like I did some obscure math problem, and I was like “1742.” You’re like, “No. 1743, actually.” It felt very Dwight. I don’t even watch that show, but it felt very Dwight.

0:44:26.2 Jordan Syatt: “False.” [chuckle]

0:44:32.6 Mike Vacanti: When you’re initially building your email list, you’re not gonna spend a lot of time making specific content for people on your email list, because the number of people who can see an email is basically capped at the number of people subscribed, and maybe they forward it to a handful of friends if it’s really good.

0:44:45.9 Mike Vacanti: The number of people who can see a video that you make on TikTok or on Facebook or wherever, Instagram Reel, can really pop. You can reach an audience 10x, 100x your current audience with a really good video. And some luck, obviously, and all the stars aligning. So you’re gonna spend the majority of your time making longform website article, SEO-able, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, places where more people can see it.

0:45:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Once your email list gets to a certain point, usually around three-ish thousand is kind of our general rule, but you can start to transition to spend more time making content specific for your email list. That being said, you’re not gonna wait until you have 3000 people to email your list ever, you’re going to email from time to time. One of the main things you’re going to be using your email list for during that time is content distribution.

0:45:33.7 Mike Vacanti: So when you make a YouTube video, when you make some piece of content, email in your list to let them know you made that content to boost the number of people who see that content. I would only use my email list for content distribution when it was either A, really, really good content or B, has potential for virality. So if I make an infographic about 11 foods that are high in protein but low in calorie, actually if it’s…

0:46:04.5 Jordan Syatt: Look at that content idea.

0:46:05.8 Mike Vacanti: If it’s 2017, I might actually email my list with that. If I’m uploading on Instagram, I don’t know, a picture, a video of me, I don’t know just an average piece of Instagram content, I’m not gonna blast my list because then you’re just pure… It’s basically a right hook when you’re emailing your list for distribution. “Go watch this, go look at this, go comment on this.”

0:46:28.9 Mike Vacanti: But if it has potential for short-term virality, aka why fitness matters video, like an emotional Facebook video where my call to action in the video is a share and I think it has an opportunity to pop, I’m going to email both of my lists with that. If it is a really good long form article that I spent 36 hours working on in total, and I want as many eyeballs on it as possible and as much time on page as possible early on, I’m going to email my list with that.

0:46:56.7 Mike Vacanti: If it’s a YouTube video that I put a lot of time and effort into and I think could pop and get a lot of early views and a lot of watch time and thereby also lead to better ranking SEO-ing for certain terms, I’m going to email my list to sending them to that YouTube video. But for a random tweet, for a random Instagram post, for a random TikTok video that I make, for a random Reel, I’m not going to email my list asking them to go watch that.

0:47:21.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that makes sense. If you’re doing a 15-second dancing TikTok, Instagram Reel, where you’re pointing at the words as they come up and you send that to your email list, that’s fucking stupid. You don’t want to send them a video of you dancing and pointing to words or like… That’s stupid.

0:47:37.4 Jordan Syatt: But if you have a real piece of content that you put a lot of time and effort into, what could actually be good is, let’s say you make this infographic, like that “10 foods that are high in protein, low in calories”, you make that infographic, and then you send that infographic to your email list and then you sort of write a mini-article in your email for your email list, you could do that if, and this is the big question here, is if your email list is big enough.

0:48:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Because now the question is, is your time better spent writing that email to your email list and then having that content disappear forever? Or what if instead of writing that private email to your list, you wrote it on your website and you made this whole article about 10 foods like “10 high calorie, high protein, low calorie foods”, and then you send a link with that article to your email list like, “Hey, I just put a lot of time and effort in this article getting you some high protein low calorie food options. The first one is this, though the rest of the other nine are in this article, go check it out.”

0:48:36.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s a really good idea for distribution, ’cause like you just said, you put a lot of time and effort into it. But if you’re just making a ridiculous Reel for, even like my Reels that I’ve been doing recently, the funny ones, I’m not sending those to my list. They’re not educational enough, they’re not good enough, they’re not an enough effort to really make it worthwhile.

0:48:52.0 Jordan Syatt: If I spend… I will do it with a podcast, an hour-long podcast that I think is really important, like a blood pressure podcast whatever, absolutely, I’ll send that, but not something that you just post for 30 seconds on Instagram or TikTok, that’s a stupid idea.

0:49:06.3 Jordan Syatt: And the other thing to bring up is if your email list, and I’m gonna say a number, 3000, and the reason I’m saying it so quickly is this is sort of the number that Mike and I came up with and we talk about a lot. If your email list is less than 3000 people, then you should not be sending them dedicated emails that are taking you a ton of time to write with specialized content just for your list.

0:49:28.7 Jordan Syatt: If your email list is greater than 3000 people, you can start sending just dedicated content just for them, but even then, the majority of your content should be as Mike calls it, “public-facing”, and then from there bits of content more dedicated just for your email list that no one can see. But the majority of what you do should be public-facing and if it’s good enough, send it to your email list to help boost it and to help make sure the people in the email list are seeing that content.

0:49:54.8 Mike Vacanti: I love it. Great answer.

0:49:56.9 Jordan Syatt: Good business question of the day, good discussion.

0:50:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Thank you very much for listening.

0:50:01.8 Jordan Syatt: Our book’s on pre-order, link in the show notes if you want, yeah. A little right hook right there. Our publishers are on us, we promised our publisher that we would start pushing the book several days ago and we didn’t, so now we’re doing it now. So if you’d like to support us, buy the book, great.

0:50:18.9 Mike Vacanti: I think you’ll like the book too. It’s a really good book. We put a lot of time and effort into it, and we’re very confident with what’s in there. It’s…

0:50:25.6 Jordan Syatt: There’s some funny, there’s some real one-liners in there that I think will be good. The dedication, I think is great. That dedication’s hilarious. I didn’t know if they were gonna approve that.

[chuckle]

0:50:34.8 Jordan Syatt: But yeah, dedication’s good…

0:50:37.8 Mike Vacanti: But they like it.

0:50:38.6 Jordan Syatt: Your clients will like it. If your clients struggle with their relationship with food and fitness, I think it might be a good gift for your clients, to be honest.

0:50:46.2 Mike Vacanti: 100% agree.

0:50:48.2 Jordan Syatt: So if you own a gym and you wanna buy a ton of books and sell ’em at your gym, that’d be cool, that’d be awesome for us as well. So yeah, we’re just… This is us doing a little push, a little push for it. Or you can join the mentorship and that’d be honestly, frankly, probably better.

[chuckle]

0:51:10.7 Jordan Syatt: Either way, we appreciate you. Have a wonderful day and we’ll talk to you next week.

0:51:13.8 Mike Vacanti: See you next week.