Episode 88: Stop Posting Such Terrible, Awful, Low Quality, Uninteresting, “Guru” Type Content

0:00:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.9 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael?

0:00:14.5 Mike Vacanti: Not much, my man. You got a… You’re filming a YouTube video today, I just met your videographer.

0:00:18.5 Jordan Syatt: I really wish we were doing this on video so we can see Mitch, my videographer, right here next to me right now filming for this YouTube video, but we don’t have the video podcast up yet, but we will soon. [laughter]

0:00:32.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think they believe us. I think this has been going on too long that the listeners of the podcast no longer believe there will ever be video podcasts.

0:00:41.1 Jordan Syatt: Which is good, ’cause when they are available they’re gonna be super excited about it. It’s a form of like under-promising and over-delivering, right? Where it’s like if they just don’t even believe us, then once it does happen, it’s gonna be the best.

0:00:53.1 Mike Vacanti: We’re setting the expectation that this will be audio only forever, but… You never know.

0:01:00.0 Jordan Syatt: You never know, man. Also make sure I move Mike’s mic here, or does that get…

0:01:04.5 Mitch: You’re good.

0:01:05.5 Jordan Syatt: Cool. Okay, awesome. Just checking with Mitch. I’m trying to get good content while making content. You know what I mean? [laughter]

0:01:10.7 Mike Vacanti: Weekly vlogs, right?

0:01:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, weekly vlogs, weekly vlogs. It’s going really well.

0:01:15.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.

0:01:15.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:01:17.0 Mike Vacanti: Are you enjoying it?

0:01:17.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I really like it. Mitch is great. It’s fun. It’s just… It’s been a good time and there hasn’t been too much stress around it, it’s just showing whatever I’m doing and then answering questions, so it’s fun.

0:01:38.0 Mike Vacanti: And highlighting the relevant, like fitness stuff within your daily life…

0:01:43.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:01:44.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s like documenting what you’re doing, but then also like, “Okay, I’m gonna highlight this, I’m gonna talk about this.”

0:01:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And like, in the last one that we published yesterday, we did… We did three in-depth questions from my Instagram Q&A. So we did an RDL technique video, which was like a super comprehensive RDL technique, then we also spoke about my six non-negotiables for a healthy diet, so that there were a bunch of different type of questions that like… That we’re answering very common questions that people have, which is really what good content is, it’s just, you just answer questions that people have and you solve their problems. So yeah, it’s fun. How are you doing man?

0:02:25.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m good, I’m really good. Been crushing programs. Got the inboxes to Zero.

0:02:32.5 Jordan Syatt: Wow!

0:02:33.0 Mike Vacanti: Yep, it was a good, productive week. Recording this on Friday. Last weekend I had my annual golf tournament, which we won, so I’m pretty happy about that.

0:02:41.2 Jordan Syatt: And you hit a huge putt. How long was that putt?

0:02:44.5 Mike Vacanti: I did, I hit a 165 foot putt.

0:02:48.8 Jordan Syatt: 165 foot putt. That video… I wish you put that video on Instagram, that should be your first post-back.

0:02:53.5 Mike Vacanti: No, I mean, seven people would like to see that, but most people do not care about that.

0:03:00.6 Jordan Syatt: I think everyone would, because of how excited you were about it, seven people would like to see it for the skill of it, but everyone would like to see it ’cause of how stoked you were about it, that was the best part of the video.

0:03:10.8 Mike Vacanti: We’ll see, we’ll see, it was fun. I mean, very lucky, right? Like, the wind broke 30 feet left to right, I don’t think I could hit that again in 10,000 tries.

0:03:23.2 Jordan Syatt: I think you could, I would put money on you doing it one in 10,000, I’ll take those odds.

0:03:28.9 Mike Vacanti: That’s true. How much would you bet on that?

0:03:31.0 Jordan Syatt: Man… $1000.

0:03:34.0 Mike Vacanti: [chuckle] Okay, alright. That is some confidence.

0:03:38.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, dude, I’m super confident in your golf ability.

0:03:40.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think you should be that confident, although my game is better than it has been in years past, it was good enough to get the W for Team Stick, so pretty pleased with that and… Yeah, man. Everything’s good.

0:03:52.0 Jordan Syatt: What are we starting off with today?

0:03:54.5 Mike Vacanti: We can dive right into questions.

0:03:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Okay, cool.

0:03:58.0 Mike Vacanti: I wanna let you get some good content, I don’t just wanna completely BS the whole episode, I wanna give everyone listening some good stuff, and we have a bunch of good questions.

0:04:05.4 Jordan Syatt: Let’s do that. Let’s do questions. We’ll just jump right in and then we’ll figure it out.

0:04:10.0 Mike Vacanti: Maybe we’ll have a mid-episode, just kinda screw around?

0:04:13.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I like that.

0:04:16.0 Mike Vacanti: I’ve been loving all the tags, I’ve been on Instagram a little bit this week, just kind of poking around, seeing what’s out there, a lot of people tagging both of us and listening to the podcast on morning walks and during cardio and doing various things. I’m into it, so shout out to all of you.

0:04:29.5 Jordan Syatt: Huge thanks to everyone who does that… Yeah, that’s amazing, ’cause we don’t… We don’t push this podcast, basically ever…

0:04:38.5 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

[laughter]

0:04:40.0 Jordan Syatt: So a huge thank you to everyone who does do that, it means the world to us, actually it does help a lot, but yeah, so all the tags and all the shares of the episodes, it means the world to us. So thank you so much.

0:04:53.5 Mike Vacanti: Let’s dive in.

0:04:53.6 Jordan Syatt: What’s the first question, Michael?

0:04:55.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I had… This is a random comment, I remember probably 40 episodes ago, we were talking… I think we were talking about “the most important factors in X,” I don’t remember if it was like building muscle or getting stronger, it might have been building muscle, but proper range of motion was on the list, and I remember we were both like, “Man, I wish we could put this higher on the list because it matters so much, but for the purpose that like… I think you said I’ve seen enough giants in the gym exercising terrible range of motion, who put on dozens and dozens and dozens of pounds of muscle, so it clearly doesn’t matter that much. There was an interesting study, I’m gonna butcher all the details, but the conclusion was, if it’s the top half of the range of motion, so if you’re thinking of a bench press, you’re only going down halfway and back up, that elicits very little recruitment, whereas if it’s the bottom half of the range of motion, so sometimes you’ll see those like… It’s kind of like a constant tension style, but almost more just bouncing off the bottom half of the range that is producing that muscle growth.

0:06:07.6 Mike Vacanti: So thinking back to that episode, breaking that out into like, is it the bottom half of the range, which is harder and more effective, or the top half of the range, which is less effective. I thought that was interesting.

0:06:20.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it makes total sense as well. If you’re going all the way to the bottom and you’re getting a full stretch, that’s a huge portion of actually breaking down the muscle and full on muscle recruitment, where it’s like you get that full muscular stretch. I could see that having a much greater impact than just doing the top half of the rep, that makes total sense.

0:06:40.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I wanna say full range and bottom half of the range were very close in whatever they were measuring, and then top half was nowhere to be found.

0:06:52.2 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been seeing lately so much content around perfect technique for hypertrophy lately, and talking about separating the divisions of the muscles in order to hit it properly, and on one hand, it’s cool, but on the other hand, I think it’s making people overthink this shit way too… Like they’re looking for the perfect angle to hit their muscle in the exact right way to get the exact division of the fibers… Like, “Shut the fuck up. Just lift. Just… ” And I think one of the reasons coaches are doing it is because, number one, they’re actually starting to learn about physiology and kinesiology, and learning the divisions of the fibers and learning the ways that they… The lines of pull. So they wanna talk about it, but I think it’s actually causing a ton of confusion and anxiety for people who just need to fucking lift more, and it’s like, it’s really… It’s not… Like if you are a professional body builder, sure, I could see that, and you really need to bring up one portion of a muscle or whatever… Great, but for the vast majority of people, we’re really overthinking the exact line of pull that this muscle… Like, relax.

0:08:17.5 Jordan Syatt: And I know you’re not on Instagram that much, so you might not see this, but it’s…

0:08:20.0 Mike Vacanti: I’ve seen some of it.

0:08:22.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s really taken over lately.

0:08:25.0 Mike Vacanti: Especially when a lot of the people consuming that content are struggling with things like consistently getting to the gym, getting enough protein, having their sleep in a good place, like, using proper technique on most movements, like when those are the current hurdles, and then you’re worrying about line of pull and whatever else these people are talking about, you’re… What is it? Stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.

0:08:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s a great saying, I like that.

0:08:56.9 Mike Vacanti: Do you think those coaches are doing this for marketing, for differentiation, so that… it’s almost like 20 years ago having a six-pack secret, like, “I’m doing something different or I’m teaching something different, and if you follow my methodology, you’ll see better progress than these other people,” or do you think it’s a genuine belief in that or genuine belief that those principles are important for their audience?

0:09:27.0 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s both. And maybe even more, so I think on one hand, they legitimately think it’s important, they think it’s super beneficial. I also think they’re doing it because they want to stand out and say like, “Well, no one else is talking about this,” but also I think a subset of wanting to stand out is knowing that by standing out in this capacity, they think they’re impressing people with their knowledge, it’s like they’re looking for… To impress other coaches, and they’re looking to impress people with their knowledge, like, “Well, look how much I know about the divisions of these muscles, and look how much I know about the line of pull of these muscles,” and so much of their content is geared towards trying to get other coaches saying, “God, you’re so smart.” That’s really where I think the majority of it is coming from.

0:10:16.2 Jordan Syatt: And I think they also believe that if other people think they’re smart, then that will get them more clients and more money, and which I think is true to a point where they will get more clients if people think like, “That person is so unbelievably smart,” but if there’s one thing I’ve learned from watching the fitness industry for the last 15 years is that these things come and go, like always, these fads, they come and go, something like this will come in, people say the importance of the line of pull and the divisions of the fibers and they get super intense on it, and then six months, a year, two years goes by and then something else has to happen, and they come in cycles and they come and go, and the one thing that I know for sure is that doing things because you think other people will think you’re smart, is a sure-fire way to fail in the long run, a sure-fire way to have a lot of imposter syndrome, and it’s a sure-fire away that I’ve seen for people to get really pissed off, ’cause inevitably what’s gonna happen is people will copy your content, this will happen no matter what, so if you start off making this new type of content… Cool, great, awesome.

0:11:25.3 Jordan Syatt: Other people will pick up on it and other people will start doing it, and that’s why it runs its course, because so many people will start to pick up on it, it’s no longer unique or anything like that, so once that starts to happen, then it will start to diminish, and something else will have to come up. And then people get pissed off because like, “Well, you’re copying my content, you didn’t know that before I posted about it.” It’s like, who cares? Now they’re posting about it. So it doesn’t matter anymore, and you never look good by being bitter and upset that someone else has stolen your content, not to mention it’s like, you learned it from somebody else, so you stole it from somebody else and… Anyway, there’s no original stuff at this point, it’s like you’re just figuring out new ways to package the same information.

0:12:04.2 Mike Vacanti: We all stand on the shoulders of giants.

0:12:06.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s exactly right.

0:12:08.5 Mike Vacanti: Except for Martin Berkhan, who did discover intermittent fasting.

0:12:12.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald… Yeah, exactly.

0:12:15.5 Mike Vacanti: Those are the giants.

0:12:16.7 Jordan Syatt: And Eric Cressey. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Those are the giants on whose shoulders we stand.

0:12:23.0 Mike Vacanti: Alright, let’s talk… Here’s one. Do you do sponsorships?

0:12:28.4 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Yeah, so this is a good question. I was literally just asked this question on my Instagram, someone asked, “Are you sponsored by Zen Basil? Which to be fair, it’s a fair question, because I’ve been posting about them a lot, so I’ve been posting about these basil seeds that I’ve been having because two table spoons has like 15 grams of fiber, and I’ve just been on a huge fiber kick and I really enjoy them. It’s a fair question because I think if you are sponsored by someone, you should disclose that, I think it’s important, and I think a lot of people want to know if you’re sponsored by something just so they know if like… If you’re getting a commission check or if you’re getting money as a result of it. So I understand why this person asked, but no, I’m not sponsored by them, and I don’t do sponsorships, because I think it can severely impact the way that you… When you are getting paid for something, without question, whether you want it to or not, you have an inherent bias as a result of now getting paid for it. So in terms of like these Zen Basil seeds, no, I’m not sponsored by them, and actually the woman who owns the company has been…

0:13:33.2 Jordan Syatt: She literally has been in tears sending me like messages on Instagram saying, “Thank you so much, you’ve changed our business, every time you post about it, we have like a new record day of sales,” and I tell her… And she’s asked, she’s like, “Can we pay you? Can we sponsor you? Can we do something together?” And every single time I say, “No, I don’t wanna do that because I don’t want that to cloud… Like, I don’t want that to get in the way of why I’m posting or why I actually really enjoy your product,” and I think she’s sort of been blown away by that and like, she doesn’t really know how to handle it. She’s like, “No, but I wanna give you something.” She literally said, “Can I host a virtual baby shower for your daughter?” She was like, “I wanna do something just to say thank you.”I’m like, “Just nothing, just… The only reason I’m promoting it is because I really enjoy it. That’s it.”

0:14:17.8 Jordan Syatt: Now, I don’t think sponsorships are inherently bad, I think that if you really enjoy a product and the company reaches out, like sure, you’re more than welcome to do that, but I do think it’s important to be aware that as soon as money is introduced into the equation, you are inherently non-biased, you cannot give a non-biased review anymore, you have stake in what’s going on, and it can impact what you’re saying and why you’re saying it and how you’re saying it, and if your goal is to be as truthful as possible and to give people the best possible content and information, I would be very wary of doing sponsorships, not to mention, I think this is equally important, a lot of people doing sponsorships, they’re not getting paid that much, like sponsorships are not gonna give you that much money unless you have a gargantuan audience like the Kardashians or whatever, it’s like, your time be better spent taking on more coaching clients and working with more clients and creating better content rather than selling out for a $500 commission check. Like, usually it’s not worth it for all of those reasons, especially the last one.

0:15:30.0 Mike Vacanti: You stole all the good points, Syatt. Just all of the good points.

0:15:32.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s alright. I’ve got Mitch here, I gotta get good content. [laughter]

0:15:34.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You got… Get it in a YouTube video, I’m with you. We’re on the complete same page with this, I might even believe everything you just said, except more strongly than you.

[laughter]

0:15:48.0 Mike Vacanti: My man, Mitch. Yeah, I don’t do any sponsorships, same thing, I think that one, you need a massive audience to make real, real money doing it. So I couldn’t make that much money doing sponsorships, and the amount of money that I could make is not enough to… Taking money from a sponsor is a short-term gain, but you also have the long-term loss of trust and goodwill with your audience, and it’s not big, like… I’m not saying sponsorships are bad, but there is a degree of like, “Okay, now I know that this person only pushes this specific supplement line, therefore… And they’re getting paid for it, even if they believe that something else is better, they’re not going to tell me that, partly because they can’t… ” ’cause like if you’re at that sponsorship and then they saw you posting about it, and partly because you’re just not going to because you’re not financially incentivized to. So for that reason, I always thought that that type of monetization doesn’t make sense, especially if you’re in it for the long run, if you’re gonna be coaching people, if you’re gonna be helping people, if you’re gonna be monetizing your service coaching membership, whatever it is, for not just years but decades…

0:17:06.7 Mike Vacanti: There’s absolutely no reason to sell out and cash grab early on.

0:17:11.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:17:12.0 Mike Vacanti: And I don’t have desire for fame, if I ever did and like really went hard and really tried to get a massive audience and could generate five figures a month from a sponsorship deal, I might do that with something like clothes, like if it was…

0:17:31.0 Jordan Syatt: Like what t-shirts.

0:17:32.0 Mike Vacanti: Like if it was that type of… [chuckle] Yeah, exactly, like white tees. No, I’d sell out on clothes, I would not wear what… ’cause I don’t care that much. If they shipped me nice, cool clothes that weren’t $4 each but were like $50 t-shirts and I liked them and they were a good fit, and they paid me five figures a month, I’d be like, “Yeah, absolutely. I’ll wear these and like, “Hey, I don’t like the Hanes shirts anymore. These are the shirts.”

0:17:57.5 Jordan Syatt: Those Hanes shirts…

0:17:58.0 Mike Vacanti: “Discount code down below. I always hated those things. Cheap. They got pit stains. You had to buy new ones like every so often…” but I don’t see any ethical overlap there because it’s… Like, what you’re putting in your body is different, and health is different than fashion.

0:18:18.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, respect.

0:18:20.0 Mike Vacanti: And the bottom, bottom line is you need a massive audience to make real money doing it.

0:18:26.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:18:26.6 Mike Vacanti: And I don’t like… I don’t wanna annoy my audience. [chuckle] Like…

0:18:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Say it.

0:18:34.1 Mike Vacanti: We don’t have advertisements, I’m just laughing because it’s like, “Oh, you really don’t annoy… Like, you never annoy us.” But we don’t have advertisements on this podcast.

0:18:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:18:44.7 Mike Vacanti: And we’ve had offers.

0:18:45.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:18:46.9 Mike Vacanti: We don’t wanna push whatever the product is or whatever the service or someone offering to pay to come on the podcast to promote their guru mentorship… Like, we don’t want any of that, we don’t want the backdoor silent money. It’s not worth it from a branding perspective, and it’s not worth it from… Like based on your and my values and philosophy in the way we approach business and life, so…

0:19:11.5 Jordan Syatt: I’ll never forget… I don’t remember who it was, I’ll never forget someone saying something to the effect of, “I just wanna get enough followers where I can have my own code that they can use to like… So that like… ” I don’t know, “their name 10” to like get a percentage off, because they thought that was the pinnacle of, “I made it and I have got clout and dah dah dah… I’m an influencer.” And it was so funny ’cause I was thinking about it and I was like, “That person is not making much money at all,” like maybe a couple hundred a month based on like that… It was not much, but I was like, “Would you really sell out just for that? It’s not worth it.” It’s just, it’s not… Not to mention like, maybe five, seven years ago, it could have been a bigger deal, but anyone can have a code now, ’cause all these companies… [laughter]

0:20:06.1 Mike Vacanti: Anyone could have a code then, too. It hasn’t changed.

0:20:10.8 Jordan Syatt: All these companies know it’s such a… Influencer marketing is such a huge way to drive business and get more brand awareness, they’ll give anyone a fucking code. You’ve got 20 followers, they’ll give you a code. Because the way that it works is like you have a code, you get X percent of however many you sell. And oftentimes, it’s not even that. Oftentimes, your code is, you’ll get X percent off of your own purchases from their company. Sometimes these codes are not even paying you, they’re like, “Yeah, we’ll give you 10% off of whatever you order,” so it’s like you just get a little discount. It’s like… It’s really…

0:20:41.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s a great deal for the business. It’s genius.

0:20:45.5 Jordan Syatt: The business is crushing it, it’s so smart. So yeah, it’s really usually not worth it unless it’s a significant amount. And it has to be something you stand behind, especially if it’s fitness-related, it has to be.

0:20:58.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, 100%. Okay, let’s jump into… What about the… So this is a question we got via email, “What about the students who cannot afford the fitness business mentorship. I’ve been following you guys. I admire you. I’m upset I can’t have this amount of money at any point in my life or for the next year, which I can spend on this course, and I’m afraid that I won’t be able to work with you guys.”

0:21:26.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so I mean, number one, for the vast majority of my life, I wouldn’t have been able to afford something like this either. It’s only like in the last few years where this is something that is actually doable for me as well, so I very much empathize with that and understand where you’re coming from. The good news is like, you don’t need it, which for whatever it’s worth, this is not a good sales pitch for the mentorship because we’re essentially saying you don’t need it. But everything that you need is freely available or available for minimal cost. Most of the things that I’ve done that I’ve learned, I’ve learned for free online: Website articles or books that didn’t cost that much. The vast majority of my knowledge comes from these freely available things that I have learned from people who are smarter than me, and then Mike and I have this podcast in which we explain them to you. And the other equation of that is simply just putting it into practice, it’s just doing it. Now, I think one of the benefits of the mentorship is, especially in the courses that we have, we have different courses for SEO and for marketing and client psychology and for content creation, all of this stuff, that one of the main reasons for these courses is not to show you… It’s not to say like, “This is the one way to succeed.”

0:22:47.2 Jordan Syatt: So one of my favorite quotes as a teacher, “Your job as a teacher, it’s not to tell people what to see, it’s to show them where to look.” It’s one of my favorite quotes, I don’t wanna tell you what to see. Mike and I, in the mentorship, we’re not telling you what to see, we’re just showing you where to look. And one of the main benefits of the mentorship is preventing you from making the same mistakes that we made along the way. But the mistakes that we made along the way didn’t prevent us from succeeding, it just took us longer than some of the people in the mentorship are because they’re not making the same mistakes, it just took us longer. So the amount of time it took us to see real success is now a fraction because we’re sort of helping prevent them from making the same mistakes. It doesn’t mean you can’t succeed without it, it just might take a little bit longer because you’re inevitably gonna make more mistakes because you don’t have as much structure. But it all boils down to the same thing that we say every time, which is, “As long as you don’t quit, you’ll succeed.” You just… Just don’t fucking quit, keep learning, keep putting out content and keep helping people.

0:23:49.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s really it. If you keep doing that and you take the free advice that we’ve put into this podcast, the hours and hours and hours and hours that we’ve put in this podcast, and you read the books that we’ve recommended, and you listen to the things that we recommend and you take action, you’ll succeed. It’s just, it’s gonna take a while. And by “a while,” I don’t mean a week or a month or a year. It’s gonna take several years. Like Mike and I have been very open about how it took us literally two years before we started making any type of money whatsoever, never mind like a real income in our business, it took like four or five, six years before it really started to happen. So it’s gonna take a significant amount of time, but you don’t need the mentorship, you don’t. I mean, again, not a good sales pitch for it, but it’s the truth, you don’t need it, but if you want a more sufficient road map and you want to avoid the same mistakes that we made and you want a great community, it’s there, but I didn’t have that, and I know you didn’t have that. We created it ’cause we thought it would be helpful for people, and it very much is, but you don’t need it. And it’s not a necessity.

0:24:51.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you can go out there and find “mentors”, people who you trust who are putting out good, useful, helpful, accurate content for free and follow what they’re saying, like Jordan just mentioned, this podcast. I actually had someone DM me recently saying that, I don’t remember he or she, I don’t remember who it was, but went back to episode one and was re-listening and talking about all of the like gold nuggets they were picking up that they hadn’t noticed the first time through. It’s evergreen content, right? 90% of it stands the test of time. It’s not like some current-year guru hack strategy, these are concepts that still apply that we still stand behind and… Yeah, so if you can’t afford the mentorship, don’t… Here’s what you shouldn’t do. You shouldn’t go take out a loan and put yourself in debt and join the mentorship, and then have a scarcity mindset and try and earn your money back in a matter of six weeks because you need to pay this loan, don’t do that. Use the free content that’s available, and like you said, execute. Consistently each day, put in work. And yeah, we hope to continue to help with more and more of these weekly uploads, which may or may not be in video format soon.

0:26:11.2 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] Soon, maybe.

0:26:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Soon.

0:26:13.9 Jordan Syatt: Bro, are you in your office right now?

0:26:16.6 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm. Just like you, Jordan. Just like you.

0:26:22.1 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] Just like you.

0:26:24.1 Mike Vacanti: Just like you.

0:26:26.2 Jordan Syatt: What’s next?

0:26:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Let’s talk about… Let’s keep it on the business theme right now. Quality versus quantity of content.

0:26:37.3 Jordan Syatt: Do you wanna take this one first?

0:26:40.4 Mike Vacanti: I think that… I actually was having a thought the other day, and I’m not even sure this is right or correct, so it’s more of an open discussion that… Okay, would you agree that across the board, across all platforms over the last 12 to 24 months, engagement has decreased?

0:27:05.2 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

0:27:08.0 Mike Vacanti: So a lot of people say, “Oh, the algorithm, the algorithm stinks, I used to be able to get this reach, now I can’t get this reach.” I actually think that it’s because there are more creators and a limited amount of attention, right? So if there are more total… If you aggregate all YouTube videos, all shorts, all TikToks, all Instagram, all Facebook, if you aggregate all of the creation, there’s only so many eyeballs in the world who have so much time each to be consuming that. And then if you increase the amount, if you increase the output of content, there will still be cream rising to the top, of course, but on average, you’re going to have fewer people engaging with each piece of content. And so, in this era of more creators, I actually… I mean look, quantity absolutely matters, and because so many people struggle with perfectionism, I’m hesitant to even say what I’m about to say, because most people do just… Need to make more stuff. If you’re making one post a month or one post a week, and you’re sitting around wondering whether or not you should publish it or not, and… Post more. But a lot of the people going really hard multiple times a day, TikTok reels, shorts everywhere, I actually think would see a drastic improvement and would stand out if they put more time into focusing on the quality of their content.

0:28:36.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I agree completely.

0:28:39.1 Mike Vacanti: And quality being everything from as little as focusing on the little things on your own, better lighting, smile, rather than just being completely stoic throughout the entire thing you’re saying. Potentially doing a little editing yourself, taking out ums, ahs, like dead time. Easy things you can do yourself, scaling that all the way up to having a videographer, if that’s something that’s in your wheelhouse, or outsourcing a little bit of help, even if it’s not a full-time videographer or editor. Those are things that… Or those… And any other ways to increase the quality of your content are ways that are going to help you stand out from other people in your industry, in the space, any other creator.

0:29:30.4 Jordan Syatt: I completely agree. I always think back to long-form content, website articles, ’cause that’s what we both started with. And I remember vividly refreshing Martin Berkhan’s website every day, seeing if he had published a new article. And I knew it would only come out like maybe once a week, once every two weeks or so, ’cause they were long and they were in-depth and they were well researched, and as soon as I saw that it was up, I got so excited and the reality… I see it happening now on my Instagram page, people will go back and they’ll refresh and they’ll refresh and they’ll refresh to see if I have a new story up. They’ll refresh and they’ll refresh, they’ll refresh to see if I have a new post up. And they’ll message me, “You haven’t posted. What’s going on? Where are you? Duh, duh, duh, duh.” It’s not because they want more, more, more, it’s because when I do post, it’s worth it, especially with a Q&A. I see a lot of people doing Q&As, and I used to do this, it’s funny ’cause I can look back in my archives and see Q&As from four or five years ago, and they weren’t nearly as good as they are now. My Q&As then were shorter answers, like a couple of word answers. Now, my Q&A answers, they’re long, and I deliberately write, “Touch and hold the screen to read.”

0:30:48.3 Jordan Syatt: Number one, because there are some people messaging me being like, “They’re so long, I don’t have enough time to read it.” And I’m like, “Jesus fucking Christ, you just hold it down and then it pauses,” but also ’cause I wanna give them the verb… Not the verbal cue, but the visual cue, “Hey, hold this, ’cause this is important to read it.” And when you… Those stories take much longer for me to write, they take much more time, much more effort, and inherently I can’t do as many simply because it takes more time. But I would rather have five amazing Q&A stories than 20 okay Q&A stories, ’cause those five amazing ones are gonna get people to get their notifications turned on, ’cause they know when those stories are up, they’re super excited to see it. I would rather you post three times a week on your Instagram feed and have every single one be fucking amazing, than post 12 times a week and have everyone be, “Okay, not that great.” Because when you post three times a week and it’s fucking amazing, your growth might actually be a little bit slower and your engagement might not be where you want it to be, but you will get… You will get those 1000 true fans.

0:32:01.4 Jordan Syatt: You will get those… A slower, steady growth of people who are overwhelmingly excited for every single time you post. And like you said, it can be… It’s difficult ’cause everyone’s different and some people, they just need to post more, they just need to get out of their head and post more frequently. If you’re only posting one time a week, I think that’s… It’s not enough, even if it’s a really good post, you need to post more than once. But you don’t need to post seven times a week, I think somewhere between three, four, five times a week of amazing posts is a really, really, really good frequency of great high quality posts to get people excited about your content.

0:32:35.9 Jordan Syatt: Minimum three, and I would say like max… In the mentorship, we have these monthly challenges where we have… We call people who do too much, way too much content, we call them gurus, where it’s like they’re posting 50 times a week, doing way too much, just posting bullshit nonsense, just trying to get attention for no reason. It’s like, it’s the people who talk just to make noise rather than talk to actually make an impact, and you don’t wanna be a guru on that sense. Five to seven times a week of amazing content is… Or three to seven times a week, excuse me, is amazing. And yes, I think generally, more content is a good idea, but if more content leads to lower quality it’s… You don’t have a good balance there. So you have to make sure that when you do post it is super, super, super high quality. Yeah, I think that’s basically it. I think there’s been too much of a push for more, more, more, and that’s led to a lot of shitty content, when people are like, “Well, why aren’t I actually making an impact?” It’s ’cause your content’s shitty, you’ve been posting a lot, but it sucks, so let’s post less. Instead of spending 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 40 minutes on one piece of content, let’s spend four hours on one piece of content and make that one piece fucking awesome.

0:33:49.2 Mike Vacanti: I love it. We can do a whole episode on improving the quality of your content.

0:33:53.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I think captions are way, way under valued. I… Most people, especially now with reels, people are not spending a lot of time on their captions at all, which I get it because reels are much more video-based piece of content and oftentimes people aren’t reading the captions as much, but Instagram has been improving the way that they push the reels and the way that they frame them to actually make the captions easier to read now and, holy shit, I think captions are really making a comeback ’cause when it was just an image-based platform, captions were everything. And then as video became more and more popular, it looked like they were disincentivizing long captions, but it looks like now they’re bringing them back. I think you should be spending at least 30 to 45 minutes on your caption. If you’re just writing a shit caption and you’re not spending much time on it, you are really missing out, you really are. ‘Cause a lot of times, people will decide very early on in the video, within like three seconds if they’re gonna watch the rest of it. But even if they don’t watch the rest of the video, they might read the caption, they might not think that you’re interesting enough on video, or maybe they’re not as intrigued by your video, but they’ll read the caption. And then once they read the caption, then maybe they’ll wanna watch the video.

0:35:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Gives you two shots at ’em.

0:35:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, exactly. More shots on net.

0:35:16.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And a lot of those captions can just be a summary of the video, you’re saying the same thing in the caption that you’re saying in the video, maybe you’re building on it in part, but that’s a great idea. “Is feeling hungry while eating maintenance calories normal?”

0:35:37.1 Jordan Syatt: Is feeling hungry while eating maintenance calories normal? Yes, yes it is. Feeling hungry while eating in a surplus is normal. Hunger… It’s actually really funny. So, we’ve been taught in our school system at a young age that we only have five senses, like hearing, sight, smell, taste, all that… What… Hearing, sight, smell, taste, what’s the other one?

0:36:03.5 Mike Vacanti: Touch.

0:36:04.9 Jordan Syatt: Touch, yeah. We’ve been told we have five senses, we don’t. We actually have way more, I think we have closer to 20 or 30, you can Google this right now if you want, like, “How many senses do we actually have?” And there are way more than five. One of them being hunger, hunger is a sense. Another one is fullness, fullness is also a sense. And these are senses that we’re not really taught about, but these are senses that we have. Also, for example, feeling tired, that’s a sense that we have. These are senses that we have that we’re not necessarily taught outside of the five common ones. And hunger has always interested in me, it’s always been something that I like… From when I first started getting into fitness, I think a lot of because of my binge eating issues, I was very interested in like, “How in the fuck can I binge on 5000 calories and still be hungry?” It didn’t make sense.

0:36:56.0 Jordan Syatt: And so I got really interested in the science behind hunger, and I spent a lot of time reading Lyle McDonald and a lot of digging into the research around hunger and how it works, and unfortunately, a lot of the science around hunger is still very inconclusive, we still don’t really fully understand how hunger works or why, but one thing that is definitively certain is that it’s not solely based on how many calories you’re eating, there are so many other factors at play outside of that, and it’s normal when you’re in a calorie deficit to be more hungry on a more frequent basis with a higher level of intensity than when you are eating at maintenance or in a surplus, but you’ll still have moments and periods of hunger when you’re in maintenance in a surplus, to never be hungry is… That just doesn’t make sense, like that… You will obviously have those periods, so yes, hunger is normal, it’s expected, but the fewer calories you eat, the higher amount of hunger you will have and a higher frequency that you’ll have it.

0:37:56.7 Mike Vacanti: Well said. There are things that you can do to reduce the amount of hunger you have, if it’s like an uncomfortable level of hunger, right? So it’s normal to be hungry, that being said, if you’re supposedly eating at maintenance, scale’s not moving and you’re hungry consistently throughout the day, if you’ve hit all your calories for the day by 6:00 PM and you’re hungry before bed, if you’re just very often hungry and important, the scale isn’t moving, like you actually are at maintenance, you’re not at estimated maintenance, and you’re actually in a 500-calorie deficit, you’re actually near your maintenance level… Sleep is a big one, so getting enough high quality sleep is gonna lead to better, more accurate hunger cues, and on average you feeling more satisfied on the same intake the next day or in the coming days, ’cause that sleep bank is cumulative to an extent. Stress levels which some are within our control, some are outside of our control, but recognizing the difference between, “I’m physiologically hungry and something just happened and I experienced a negative emotion, and I want to now have a positive emotion… ” Not to focus on one neurotransmitter, but Anna Lembke in her book, Dopamine Nation talks about this.

0:39:24.5 Mike Vacanti: If you’re on one side of the dopamine deficit, then there are strategies and things people will do to rebalance…

0:39:33.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s interesting. Yeah.

0:39:35.0 Mike Vacanti: And binge eating or just slightly over-eating, eating when you’re not actually hungry and eating the scientifically created highly palatable foods in the $1 billion industry, $1 trillion industry, I don’t even know, that exists to make money at the expense of the health of us. They’ve engineered these foods to be so delicious that… “Yeah, I’m gonna go for the Oreo and I’m not having one because I feel like shit, that X, Y, Z bad thing happened at work, so I’m gonna have… ” Or you tell yourself you’re gonna have one like, “I’ll just have one Oreo.” [chuckle] No, you’re not just gonna have Oreo… And boredom is the other one that comes to mind, so sleep, stress, and I think boredom actually probably falls under the stress, whatever… You’re trying to feel better, using food is a way to feel better, whereas just sitting in that boredom, meditate, and I know meditating is not your favorite thing in the world, but for some people, it absolutely works, but doing other things that… Not to keep quoting that book, but for example, there’s another strategy that she used, which when you’re in a dopamine deficit rather than trying to create pleasure through food, sex, drugs, anything like that, there are other strategies where you lean into the pain…

0:41:01.2 Mike Vacanti: Lean into the deficit, and one of those is like a three-minute ice bath, which we’re not trying to burn the brown fat or whatever, but we are… Your brain in the minutes and hours after a three-minute ice bath has like… I don’t remember the exact stats, but some massive increase in dopamine levels and then they sustain, whereas something like cocaine, to take an extreme example, dopamine levels shoot up and then they pretty quickly come back down. Post ice bath, they go up and they stay up and it’s a very gradual decrease over something like five hours.

0:41:42.5 Jordan Syatt: That makes total sense. Yeah, that makes total sense. Man.

0:41:43.7 Mike Vacanti: There’s a lot to hunger.

0:41:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I was also thinking of… You were talking about boredom and mindless eating, which I think are huge ones, I think alcohol consumption often will really affect it as well. Obviously, the type of foods that you eat, like higher protein is gonna help a lot, but also… This is what I was gonna say, this is one of the reasons why I really like having some calorie cycling involved where you have some higher days mixed in with lower days, ’cause we know for sure that especially if you’ve been in a deficit for a while, and your leptin is low, your hunger is going to be high. We know that, and we’ve noticed that if you have strategic days in where you can spike leptin, then your hunger will decrease as a result of it, and so there are ways to do this where some people will have one high calorie day week or they’ll have a re-feed day, whatever you wanna call it. This is one of the reasons why I prefer having three higher calorie days a week and four lower calorie days, and on the higher calorie days, really focusing on carbohydrates ’cause carbohydrates are… They’re what allow you to spike leptin, but it’s another reason why you really shouldn’t keep carbohydrates so low all the time, ’cause we’ll just…

0:43:05.4 Jordan Syatt: In many, many ways, we could make it way more difficult, but having this calorie cycling methodology where you have some higher days and some lower days will allow you to have… Not only mentally, allow you to have something to look forward to and to better deal with the hunger, but also physiologically allow you to decrease hunger over the long term because you’re having days where you’re actually allowed to spike leptin and improve your… Or decrease your hunger.

0:43:31.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, great strategy. We actually, in our book, Eat It! , had a real comprehensive… It’s not about maintenance, it’s how to stay full in a calorie deficit, but a lot of those strategies apply to maintenance.

0:43:43.5 Jordan Syatt: Eat it!

0:43:44.0 Mike Vacanti: If you’re eating no fiber and you’re eating non… You’re eating super calorically dense foods, you’re eating a lot of dry fruit, dried fruit rather than whole fruit, et cetera, there’s a long list in the book that we published, and go and get that, that applies here as well.

0:44:00.5 Jordan Syatt: And we dedicated the book to all the highly palatable foods. [laughter]

0:44:05.0 Mike Vacanti: [chuckle] We sure did, without which, the book would not be… What was it?

0:44:12.0 Jordan Syatt: Possible or needed.

0:44:13.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah… “Opinion on wide grip angle pull-ups, will it harm your shoulders?”

0:44:21.0 Jordan Syatt: You know, let’s extrapolate this to not just wide angle pull-ups, but let’s also talk about things like behind the neck, lap pull-downs and behind the neck shoulder presses, so we have… These are all generally wide grip things, and they’re all vertical movements, they’re all either vertical pull or vertical push, and they’re all in a somewhat compromising position for the shoulders, or at the very least provocative positions for the shoulders. Now, I’ll say this. When I write the programs for the inner circle, I’m writing programs for several thousand people at one time, and so it’s not an individualized program.

0:45:10.0 Mike Vacanti: Let’s go inner circle. That inner circle, my man, killing it.

0:45:15.0 Jordan Syatt: The reason I say that is because I have to take the vast majority of people into consideration, I’m not writing for one individual and just assuming they all have sufficient mobility, flexibility, all that stuff. I have literally never in the history of the inner circle programmed wide grip pull-ups, behind the neck lap pull-downs, or behind the neck shoulder presses for the inner circle, ever. Now, I’ve also never programmed behind the neck lap pull-downs for any one-on-one client because I think it’s a stupid fucking exercise, but I have programmed wide grip pull-ups and behind the neck shoulder presses before for some clients, I very rarely program behind the neck shoulder presses.

0:46:04.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s very, very rare, but occasionally, I can probably count on two hands how many times I’ve done it, but I have done it, and I’ve programmed for many people wide-grip pull-ups, individuals, but not in a group setting, so we can clearly see there’s definitely a hierarchy here of like which ones have the most efficacy and which one has the least efficacy. Out of these three, I’d say the wide-grip pull-ups have the most, the behind the neck shoulder press have the middle, and then the behind the neck lap pull-downs have the least… It’s just stupid. I don’t see any reason for anybody to do that ’cause it’s just fucking stupid. So with that in mind, we could go back to the wide-grip pull-up question specifically. There’s definitely a time and a place for it, but I think the vast majority of people have no business doing it, looking at wide population data, at the vast majority of people who are working out, you definitely do have a greater risk of injury, a greater risk of hurting your shoulders and not even just your shoulders, just in that position, a greater risk of straining your neck, straining your traps, greater risk… There are many more risks associated with it, and not to mention total muscle recruitment is lowered, you don’t get the best muscle recruitment as compared to a closer grip, chin-up neutral grip, chin-up… Any of that, you get much better overall muscle recruitment with a lot lower risk of injury or muscle strain, any of that.

0:47:31.6 Jordan Syatt: So I don’t program it for a group, if I have an individual who says, “Hey, I want to work on this specifically.” Yeah, I’ll absolutely program it as long as they can do it without pain, but that’s not an inherently bad exercise.

0:47:46.9 Mike Vacanti: Go with the grip that is best and makes the most sense for you, and that feels the best and you’re strongest on is my general approach to pull-ups, and when I say grip, I mean grip width, right? Like I’ll intentionally program overhand, parallel grip, underhand grip, but with an overhand and the width, go with what feels best and what you’re strongest on. For basically everyone, that’s gonna be somewhere between shoulder width and slightly outside of shoulder width, like shoulder width to 1.5x shoulder width, and then once you get out into the realm of 2x shoulder width with your grip width, strength comes down substantially.

0:48:30.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dramatically.

0:48:31.5 Mike Vacanti: So not only from a muscle recruitment perspective, but a strength perspective, between shoulder width and outside of shoulder width, whatever feels best for you makes the most sense. I also like changing, not necessarily grip width, if you have a grip width that works for you on an overhand grip pull-up, great, roll with it, but changing grips in general, or changing from overhand to neutral from phase to phase every few months, at some frequency is going to help reduce the little tweaks, the little wear and tear, little nags on the joints especially.

0:49:09.5 Jordan Syatt: I prefer neutral grip, if I have to pick one favorite chin-up pull-up variation, it’s neutral grip chin-ups by far, that’s my favorite, it feels the best on my shoulders, feels the best on my elbows, biggest range of motion, most muscle recruitment, that’s what I program for the vast majority of people, including myself. If I’m gonna change something, it’s either gonna be like you said, the type of grip, so either palms facing me or neutral grip or a pull-up where the palms are facing away, but more likely, I’ll change the type of chin-up that I’m doing. So let’s say I’m gonna stick with the neutral grip chin-up, we’re gonna stick with that exact variation. Well, cool, so maybe instead of doing… Maybe instead of doing sets of 12, I’ll do weighted and I’ll do clusters of four, so now as I’m changing the intensity as opposed to the variation, maybe instead of doing a regular chin-up, I’ll do a constant tension chin-up, or instead of a constant tension, I’ll do a one-and-a-half, or instead of one-and-a-half, I’ll do a towel grip, there are so many different ways to do essentially the same variation, that ought you to…

0:50:17.0 Jordan Syatt: Get different training… Different training… What’s the fucking word? You get different training effects from it, so you get a different effect from essentially the same movement, but you change it slightly, so it’s either the grip or the intensity with which you perform it, is a great way to change it, and the vast majority of people just don’t need a super wide-grip pull-up, it’s just… It’s probably not gonna benefit them, and it doesn’t hit the lats as well as people think it does, a wide-grip pull-up does not hit the lats anywhere near as well as they think it does, it’s actually… You usually get better lat recruitment from a more of a regular chin-up variation, where more of a shoulder width grip apart, and maybe slightly wider than that, with either palms facing your face or a neutral grip, and you also get the added benefit of it also hits your biceps better too, which generally people want as well. [laughter]

0:51:07.7 Mike Vacanti: My man. Alright, last one, this is a non kind of fitness business question, but someone wrote in to info@fitnessbusinessmentorship.com, which is our email, if you wanted to submit any questions, info@fitnessbusinessmentorship.com, if you actually subscribe to the email list down in the show notes, then you’ll have direct access to email us at any time of day or night. Alright, “Hey guys, I have a question here I would love your thoughts on. It doesn’t have much to do with business, but it can be related to personal training or a client’s mindset, my daughter plays volleyball competitively, age 13, her sportsmanship is amazing, so great that she has the attitude, as long as she has fun, it doesn’t matter if she wins, which is great, I love that. But she literally is not fazed if they lose every single game in a tournament, if the whole team doesn’t have the fire and drive to win, will they ever make the strides they need to be one of the top competing teams? As with everything, there’s a balance I suppose, but I’d love to know your thoughts. So do you think if a person/team has no drive to win, will they make progress? Thanks guys.”

0:52:21.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s a really good question. I like that.

0:52:23.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. Fun one.

0:52:24.5 Jordan Syatt: Do you wanna start?

0:52:26.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So, I think it’s amazing that your 13-year-old daughter is in this mental place where I think it shows a level of maturity that I never had to not care whether you win or lose, but still really enjoy it. Enjoy competing. Enjoy trying hard. Enjoy spending time with your friends. Enjoy being active and just has fun. I think that’s great. Will she/the team/anyone make progress? Yeah, if you enjoy playing and you play at a decent frequency, you’re going to get better over time at anything, is she going to make optimal progress, is she going to be the greatest of all time in volleyball, is… Apply this to weight lifting, are you gonna be the strongest or are you gonna have the best… Whatever. No, absolutely not, because the people who reach those pinnacles are out of their mind, like have deep-seated issues, anger, like childhood stuff, like people are… Michael Jordan types, people are insane who get to that level because you can’t get to that level without having something wrong in your head, and I say that with the utmost respect and admiration and jealousy, so no, you can’t reach those levels, but you can make progress, and I’m actually…

0:53:58.1 Mike Vacanti: I admire her for having that perspective because I didn’t, and I think it’s really cool, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it at all.

0:54:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I agree. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. I think what it shows is like, that’s clearly not her passion, her passion isn’t volleyball, she’s not doing volleyball because she wants to be the greatest ever, she’s doing volleyball ’cause she enjoys being with her friends, and she likes the camaraderie and she likes the sport, but clearly that’s not the thing that she lives or dies by, which is great, it’s actually wonderful that she still does it, even though it’s not something that she’s the most passionate about, because you need to have things in your life that you’re not super passionate about that you still participate in, and you have these events with. That’s really, really important. It shouldn’t be either you’re all in or you’re all out. I think it’s not as simple as that. I think it’s like you should… There should be middle of the way in and out. It’s totally fine. I completely agree with everything that you just said. If someone isn’t out of their mind insane, they’re not gonna be the greatest of all time, you have to be insane to be the greatest of all the time, and you have to have…

0:55:08.3 Jordan Syatt: You care way too much, way too much if you win or lose, like you have to be willing to miss holidays and important time with your family and skip a huge event in order to… And this isn’t just for sports, this is for business, this is for so many different things in life, if you wanna be the best of the best of the best, and you have such a strong emotional attachment to the outcome, then you are going to sacrifice unbelievable amounts of things in order to achieve that. So I think it’s totally fine. What I would be interested to hear is though like, what is she really passionate about? What does spark that anger, concern, fear, excitement? Is it her grades? I know that’s a big one for kids that age. I remember vividly I couldn’t have given a shit what I got in a grade as long as I passed, as long as I passed, like if I got a C-minus, I was like, “Cool, great. C’s get degrees.” That was my motto, “C’s get degrees.” I was like, I didn’t care, but when it came to sports, and when it came to business, I was super competitive, and when it came to power, actually here’s the funny thing…

0:56:22.0 Jordan Syatt: When it came to power lifting, I was ridiculously competitive. When I was playing basketball with my friends, I didn’t give a shit, ’cause I was like, “I’m not really that good. I don’t really care.” So it was like, it wasn’t even just sports in general, it was specific sports and it was specific activities that really, really, really drew out that anger or that passion or that excitement, what really mattered to me. So I think I would be very curious to hear what does cause that for her, but just because she is not that overwhelmingly passionate about volleyball, who cares, like cool. So she’s not gonna be an Olympic volleyball player. That’s fine. She’ll make great memories with great friends and have a wonderful experience, and maybe one day she’ll be able to teach her kids how to play and have a great relationship with the sport, but there will be something else that she’s fiercely passionate about. I do think it’s important to have something in your life that you’re furiously passionate about, and it could be family, it could be being a father, it could be being a mother, it could be your business, it could be anything, it could be acting, it could be whatever, it could be learning languages, it could… I don’t know, whatever… Could be building.

0:57:32.0 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know, it could be Carpentry, doesn’t fucking matter. You should have something that you’re fiercely passionate about, and I think the best way to do that is to introduce your children to as many different things as possible so that they can find something that they really care about, but I also wouldn’t say that this is a waste of time, just because she’s not fiercely passionate about it, just… It’s a wonderful thing that she’ll have memories of the rest of her life.

0:57:56.5 Mike Vacanti: Great episode.

0:57:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Great episode, brother.

0:57:57.8 Mike Vacanti: This was a good one. I enjoyed this.

0:57:58.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, this was really good.

0:58:00.9 Mike Vacanti: We’ll be back next week. If you enjoyed the episode, we would love a review. Spotify, iTunes…

0:58:06.5 Jordan Syatt: Five star, five star review please.

0:58:08.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, the fives are… Yeah, if you’re not going to, then…

0:58:12.2 Jordan Syatt: If you’re not gonna leave a five, just don’t leave one at all, you know what I mean? I think some people leave fours and threes. You told me this, I’m stealing your line, some people leave fours and threes… Fours, thinking that it’s good. Four isn’t good. The only good review is a five star review, if you’re not gonna leave a five star review, just don’t say anything at all.

[laughter]

0:58:34.0 Mike Vacanti: Just keep listening and enjoying. But yeah, we’re not wasting your time with sponsorships or advertisements on these podcasts, we’re just… Yeah, leave a review. It helps us a lot. We appreciate it.

0:58:47.0 Jordan Syatt: Love you.

0:58:47.8 Mike Vacanti: Great episode.

0:58:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Join the mentorship. Link in the description, show notes. We’ll talk to you soon. 

0:58:54.0 Mike Vacanti: Goodbye.