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0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.7 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:14.7 Mike Vacanti: 741.


0:00:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Wow, you really knew how you were gonna start this podcast and…




0:00:23.8 Jordan Syatt: You’re like, “What can I say that’s just gonna confuse the hell out of Jordan when we start this podcast?” 741. I’m trying to think, the fuck is that?


0:00:35.0 Mike Vacanti: What did we last talk about on the podcast?


0:00:39.3 Jordan Syatt: I don’t remember. Dude, I don’t remember… I have no idea which episode of the podcast was last. I have no idea. Oh! Your testosterone. Let’s go.




0:00:50.6 Jordan Syatt: Wow.


0:00:51.1 Mike Vacanti: There we go. There we go.


0:00:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Wow, wow. 741. You’re just a high T…


0:01:00.7 Mike Vacanti: I would imagine that’s pretty average for a 35-year-old male.


0:01:03.1 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:01:04.5 Mike Vacanti: It should be, maybe not in this day and age and with the lifestyles of the average person in the West. But on average, it might even be low by historical standards. But we hypothesize that it could have been lower than that. There was a little bit of fingers crossed, “What if I bink a 270 and can start TRT, like yippee level of excitement and… “


0:01:25.5 Jordan Syatt: “What if I bink… “




0:01:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Where did bin k… [laughter] I’ve never heard you say that, but I like that, bink…


0:01:32.1 Mike Vacanti: Poker term.


0:01:33.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, is it?


0:01:34.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.


0:01:35.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh. Okay. What if I bink… [laughter]


0:01:36.5 Mike Vacanti: If you bink a two outer on the river to… Yeah.




0:01:39.6 Mike Vacanti: Scoop a pot.




0:01:41.7 Mike Vacanti: But I didn’t. I went from 867 total to 741 over the last five and a half years. And so, unfortunately, I’m just gonna have to continue to not have any extra help for the next however many years, the foreseeable future, re-evaluate when I’m 40.


0:01:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, what if you naturally get it up to like nine hundo?


0:02:02.8 Mike Vacanti: I probably could.


0:02:04.3 Jordan Syatt: I think you could. What would be the top three changes you make to your lifestyle, to get your testosterone naturally to nine hundo?


0:02:18.8 Mike Vacanti: My sleep is already pretty good, 95% of the time. My sleep is actually very, very good 95% of the time. So I don’t know if that hits the top three, even though that would definitely be in the top three for…


0:02:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Everyone else.


0:02:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Almost everyone.


0:02:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:02:31.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Continuously doing heavy compound movements.


0:02:39.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:02:39.9 Mike Vacanti: Because sometimes with my training, I’ll get a little more bro-ey, a little more isolation, work a little less, like CNS, basically, absolute intensity is lower, I’m going higher rep, I’m… That probably hits the top three. I don’t know that I have the science to back this one, but I think sugar intake coming down would be beneficial. I eat a lot of sugar, I’m always filling up glycogen stores, I don’t know that that would actually move the needle, like keeping carbs the same, but just eating maybe more starches, a little bit more fruit, more whole grains and less sugar.


0:03:24.5 Jordan Syatt: What’s your main sugar come from? Ice cream?


0:03:29.3 Mike Vacanti: I would say sweets, one to three times a week.


0:03:33.2 Jordan Syatt: What are your favorite sweet… What’s a common sweet?


0:03:36.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, ice cream’s on that list. Cookies, if someone…


0:03:39.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, you’re a big cookie guy.


0:03:41.1 Mike Vacanti: If someone comes… Yeah, we have no cookies here, but if someone buys cookies or we host or something and there’s leftovers, it’s like, “Okay,” four M&M cookies like that, quickly. Yeah, I don’t know what the third one would be.


0:03:56.8 Jordan Syatt: Would you increase your fat intake?


0:04:00.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know that that would move the needle. I think my total fat and saturated fat are both… I don’t know. ‘Cause I’ve heard guys taking saturated fat and dietary cholesterol through the roof and “seen a super high response in total test,” but that’s like when I see someone… I don’t think that the testosterone level change that they saw, or the physique changes they saw came from jacking up cholesterol intake. I think it came from stuff that they’re not disclosing.


0:04:34.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh. Injecting testosterone into their butt?


0:04:36.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, at the very least. At the very least.


0:04:38.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Their butt cheeks… For everyone… not…




0:04:44.1 Mike Vacanti: We’re not going in to the GI tract through the reverse door.




0:04:51.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s the update.


0:04:53.7 Jordan Syatt: Are you happy with that? Are you happy? Are you sad? Are you disappointed? Are you stoked? Where is your thoughts on 741?


0:05:02.0 Mike Vacanti: No, I’m not stoked. Stoked would have been like 900.


0:05:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Got it.


0:05:06.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t really like the year-over-year percentage… Look, it’s just two data points, right? If I got blood drawn six times over the course of three months and then did that again five years later and took the average of both, that would be a better number. This is like… I don’t know how much it can vary on a week-to-week basis based on short-term factors. But yeah, I would have been… It’s a little… No, I’m slightly disappointed. I’m slightly disappointed because the year-over-year percentage decrease is bigger than I would want, from 30 to 35. And I’m 1% disappointed because I would love to inject and get to the top end of the 1994 normal range, aka 1200, not 850 or whatever they have it set now. That would be super enjoyable, I would imagine. But I’m mostly happy that it’s not lower, and I think I can bump it up. We’ll see, maybe I’ll do it again in a year and see if I’m over 800. I also don’t know how much it really matters. Meaning, could I notice a difference in how I feel at 750 versus 810?


0:06:16.7 Jordan Syatt: Probably not.


0:06:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Right.


0:06:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, probably not. But 750 to 12 hundo. Yeah.


0:06:22.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But at 35 with the data points I have, I’m not getting to 1200. Even with the few supplements that’s… I don’t even wanna go down that route. But there’s one or two things that actually do increase testosterone “naturally” slightly, but even with that, plus perfect diet, sleep, everything, I don’t think that I could get that high.


0:06:44.5 Jordan Syatt: No. You have to have the genetics for that, to reach that naturally. Yeah.


0:06:49.7 Mike Vacanti: And then I would have been at those levels for the last number of years.


0:06:54.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:06:56.4 Mike Vacanti: Whatever. I’m good.


0:06:57.5 Jordan Syatt: How has your regimen been, training, nutrition?


0:07:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Over what timeframe?


0:07:04.2 Jordan Syatt: We’ll call it over the last three months.


0:07:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Mediocre.


0:07:08.6 Jordan Syatt: Mediocre.


0:07:09.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:07:10.7 Jordan Syatt: Just like… What? You don’t wanna go over it?


0:07:14.6 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t really thought about it. I feel like there’d be a lot of excuse-making. I’m maintaining, main-gaining, but actually maintaining.


0:07:23.2 Jordan Syatt: Main-gaining. [laughter]


0:07:25.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s definitely stolen. I don’t know who thought of it, but… Yeah. Basically, lazily and sloppily making very slow strength and muscle gain progress over time while possibly adding a little body fat. My scale weighs the same, and strength is up slightly and… Yeah. So it’s fine.


0:07:44.6 Jordan Syatt: You’re adding in speed work now though.


0:07:47.3 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t yet…


0:07:47.4 Jordan Syatt: Speed work to your bench press.


0:07:49.1 Mike Vacanti: I am going to. I’ll definitely give an update on that. The conjugate method master Syatt Fitness had some real good advice for me…


0:07:58.5 Jordan Syatt: I’m excited.


0:08:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah…


0:08:01.0 Jordan Syatt: And too, your repetition speed increase. Pah pah pah.


0:08:05.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Joey Prescia said I have the slowest concentric he’s ever seen in his entire life.




0:08:12.7 Mike Vacanti: And so, we’ll see what happens. What’s up with you? You look lean.


0:08:21.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:08:21.9 Mike Vacanti: I thought this last night. We did a video chat last night because I’ve seen lots of pictures and videos of your daughter, but it was fun to actually get to be on a video chat with her last night. But the first thing I noticed, I don’t think I said it last night, was your face looks lean.


0:08:35.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I gain and lose fat from my face first. Whenever I start gaining weight, you see at my face, and if I start losing weight you see at my face immediately. It’s funny, I noticed that too when I did a podcast, not yesterday, the day before, ’cause I was doing a podcast with someone and I was on Zoom and I saw my face, I was like, “Oh, yeah, I’ve definitely lost like five pounds.” I see it immediately.


0:09:00.4 Mike Vacanti: And that’s about how much you’ve lost?


0:09:02.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, like 4.6 pounds technically. But then today, I was up a pound and a half. But it’s so funny, and we’ve spoken about this before, documenting your own progress, it’s the best thing you can do, documenting your own progress with commentary on what’s happening and why. If you wanna get new clients, this is literally… It’s the best thing you can do. People freak out every time I do this, Inner Circle memberships always increase. It’s like people are always so excited whenever I do this. And it never ceases to amaze me how, I’ll scroll through messages from people as they’re seeing my weight fluctuate in the commentary, and these are people who followed me since 2017, who have messaged me consistently since 2017. And they’re like, “Oh, I really needed to see this,” I’m like, “You’ve literally followed me for five years, see me gone through multiple weight cuts, and you know how this works, and you’re still saying, ‘I really needed to hear this.'” There’s something about documenting your own process with commentary, and that’s an important key part, it’s like, you can’t just post your weight and just… And leave it at that for the day. Leave commentary on, why did that happen? What can you expect in the future? Get people engaging with you. But just documenting the process, man, it’s crazy. It’s so simple and easy to do, and just has a massive impact on people.


0:10:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Well, it’s win-win too, because you’re documenting something that you would be doing at that time, even if you weren’t documented. You wouldn’t do a cut when you didn’t actually have any desire to do a cut.


0:10:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:10:45.6 Mike Vacanti: You do it when you’re like, “Yeah, I would like to lose a few pound… ” whatever it is, but then it’s like, “So I’m gonna do… “


0:10:49.6 Jordan Syatt: “Yeah, I’m too fat right now.”


0:10:51.4 Mike Vacanti: “I’m gonna do that for myself, but then I’m also going to document it because it makes great educational content.”


0:10:57.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s so funny, I put in my… ‘Cause I’m using the Inner Circle app and there’s a little area where you can write your goals in there. My goals are just be less fat by about 10 pounds, and I put that up on the screen. And people… I think political correctness is like, people are so fed up with it because I post it on my story and people were like, “I love that, I love how your goal is just be less fat.” It’s like, yeah, I got fatter than I want, I got too fat, so I wanna be less fat. That’s it. That’s my goal. [laughter]


0:11:28.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.


0:11:29.6 Jordan Syatt: And people thought that was so funny.


0:11:31.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s refreshing after the last three, four, five, six years.


0:11:34.7 Jordan Syatt: “I would like to lose a little bit of body fat because… Not because the body fat makes me a bad person, but because I would just feel more comfortable if I had a little bit… ” “Shut the fuck up, how are you gonna be less fat?” It’s okay, you could say that. [laughter]


0:11:47.6 Mike Vacanti: I do think that it’s peaked…


0:11:49.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:11:49.9 Mike Vacanti: At least for now, that obsession with it, with political correctness. It’s funny because the only other thing that I’d wrote down in my note here to bring up actually relates to that, which is, a pet peeve that I’m noticing. I think you and I talked about this somewhat recently. But the reason that it bothers me so much, I think, is because I know that I do it. And as soon as I do it, I hate myself for it, I’m like, “Why did I just do that? I’m the worst.”


0:12:17.8 Jordan Syatt: Do what?


0:12:18.9 Mike Vacanti: The pet peeve that I’m about to describe.


0:12:20.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh. For a second I was like, “Did he just explain it and I just zoned out and didn’t hear what he said?” I was…




0:12:25.9 Jordan Syatt: I literally, I was like, “Shit. No.” [laughter]


0:12:29.1 Mike Vacanti: “How long was I zoned out?” When people say… If you were to ask me about someone, like, “Hey, what do you think of so-and-so?” And usually it’s like a “semi-controversial figure” or someone who’s like, whatever, isn’t universally liked, we’ll say, which no one is, but… And then you say… So it’s like, “What do you think of so-and-so?” And you say, “Well, I don’t agree with everything he says, but I think that he has some good ideas related to this, but I… ” That lukewarm response makes me so mad, when I hear it in others, but mainly when I ever do it. And…


0:13:08.9 Jordan Syatt: Why does that make you mad?


0:13:12.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s just so soft.


0:13:14.5 Jordan Syatt: ‘Cause you’re not taking a hard stance?


0:13:17.6 Mike Vacanti: It comes from a place of fear, it comes from a place of being… It comes from a place of you actually like that person, but you know that some people might not like that person, and so you’re hedging, if they’re listening to maintain brand with that audience. And I see it every… You see it in all the higher level podcasters, not all obviously, but these people who are somewhat involved in the Hollywood scene, and it’s just very like walk on eggshells, tippy-toe, lukewarm, soft opinions.


0:14:00.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Well, it’s also, it’s interesting ’cause I definitely do that and I’m trying to think. For example, I’ll use Joe Rogan as an example. Joe Rogan’s a very polarizing figure, which is funny ’cause I don’t really think he says many things that are that polarizing, I think that just news media will clip it to make it look more polarizing than it actually is. But people ask me, “Hey, what are your thoughts on Joe Rogan?” And I love Joe Rogan, I think he’s awesome. But I think when people hear me say that, they assume that means, “Oh, so you agree with everything he said?” It’s like, you can really like someone and not agree. I think he gives some really bad nutrition advice. I don’t like a lot of what he says about nutrition, but I really like Joe Rogan.


0:14:47.9 Jordan Syatt: And it’s funny because I think a lot of people, they… We see it on Twitter. I’ve always thought it was interesting, if you go on Twitter and you look in someone’s bio, sometimes in people’s bio they’ll say, “A retweet is not an endorsement.” And I’ve always been like, “Why did they say that?” And I guess it’s because so many people think, “Well, if you retweet it, it means you must agree or like, or whatever.” It’s like, it’s so funny how if you’d say, “I like this person,” a lot of people assume that to mean, “Oh, so you agree with literally everything they say?” No, it’s like, I love my mom, but I don’t agree with the vast majority of stuff that she says. You don’t have to agree with everything in order to like them.


0:15:29.6 Mike Vacanti: Well, and here’s the thing, nobody agrees with every position that a person has…


0:15:35.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:15:36.4 Mike Vacanti: Otherwise, you’re not an indivi… Every single person varies in some way from every other person because there’s an infinite number of issues and opinions and takes that you can have. You’re absolutely right, liking someone does not mean you agree with everything, and it’s silly that anyone even thinks that. I think that your mom example was perfect. I was literally just thinking, if someone was like, “Do you like Jordan?” It’s like, well, I wouldn’t be like, “Yeah, Jordan likes Turkish get-ups and has some training philosophies that I don’t necessarily agree with 100%.”




0:16:14.2 Mike Vacanti: “But overall, I think Jordan does a lot of good things for the community. I think he’s in that positive… I would never… Yeah, I like Jordan, of course.” But it’s because there are people who are often mis-characterized or just somewhat controversial that… I don’t know. I’m gonna make a strong effort to never, for the rest of my life, use that phrasing.


0:16:41.9 Jordan Syatt: I remember, I remember, man, this must have been in 2013, 2014, someone in the fitness industry, in the more science-based fitness industry, took a picture with Charles Poliquin, rest in peace, one of the most legendary people in the industry ever. And he started to go down a different route as he got a little bit older, and he died very young, tragically. But he went down more like the sales and marketing route, and he did some things that were probably not fully in line with the science-based community, but someone in the science-based community took a picture with him and they got lambasted for it. People were like, “Why are you with him? Da da da da… ” It’s like, just be… I think a lot of people assume if you don’t agree with someone on everything, then you can’t be friends with them. It’s so interesting to me, and this is why I think there’s so much divisiveness with politics and all this stuff online, it’s like you’re either 100% with us or you’re entirely completely against us. It’s like, where did that come from? It’s a very interesting mentality. And I think that you’re right, people say, “Well, I don’t agree with everything they say,” as a buffer, as like, “Well, I might not necessarily agree with them, but I do like them overall,” so you’re trying to play both sides. You could just say, “I really like them. I think they’re great.” Yeah. [laughter]


0:18:09.1 Mike Vacanti: Which doesn’t mean I agree with every single opinion that he or she holds.


0:18:12.8 Jordan Syatt: Which I feel like, if you start doing that, if you start just fully just going out and be, like, blanket statement, “I really like them,” you’re gonna get a lot of people being like, “Oh, so you agree with this? So you agree with this?” It’s funny, I’ll do that… I’m very open about how much I love Legion Athletics and Mike Matthews, and I’m a huge fan of that, and people will always be like, “I thought you said you don’t like fat burners.” It’s like, “Yeah, I don’t.” It’s like, “Well, Legion has fat burners.” It’s like, “Number one, I have an entire podcast with the owner, Mike Matthews, and we have a discussion about the fat burners and about how… ” It’s like, yeah, I don’t like them. And Mike openly says on the podcast, he was like, “Yeah, they don’t just inherently burn fat.” He’s like, “But you also have to understand where we’re coming from, from a marketing perspective and also from that they can help do this with X, Y and Z.”


0:19:06.0 Jordan Syatt: So even though I don’t… I’m not gonna promote every product from Legion and I don’t necessarily agree with every single thing, overall, net of everything, I think it’s the best supplement company out there; where the best customer service, best ownership, all of that. I don’t necessarily have to agree with every single thing.


0:19:25.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s what I like means.


0:19:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:19:29.4 Mike Vacanti: I like means like not overall, I think they’re the… Or it at least means something close to that, it definitely doesn’t mean I like everything they do or every product they put out. And that’s a great insight because that is gonna piss me off when I get those, which is either gonna lead to… ‘Cause I’m not going back to battling in the DMs or going to it. I don’t know if I ever really did it, but it’s either gonna be…


0:19:53.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh you definitely had some battles, you did a little bit of battling.


0:19:57.3 Mike Vacanti: I did some battling. Not to your level, but it’s either gonna be blocking or it’s gonna be ignoring, which takes a level of emotional maturity that I don’t know that I possess on most days, ’cause I wanna win in that little like… Or it’s like a repost strategy of, make an example of/teach the lesson that, of course, I don’t agree with everything, but I’m not gonna preface that reposting stuff.


0:20:28.3 Jordan Syatt: Blocking is the best. And I’ve started… What I’ll do is if someone says something annoying, I’ll go back in our message history and see how they’ve interacted with me, and if the vast majority had been positive, it’s fine, but for example, the other day, someone messaged me something really fucking annoying, and I looked back through our message history, and every single thing that she had replied to and said was just obnoxious and rude. And I just replied, I was like, “You know, you can unfollow me. Right?” And she was like, “Why would I unfollow you?” I was like, “Every single time you’ve replied to a story of mine, it’s been a rude obnoxious statement.” I was like, “If you don’t like what I’m saying, just un-follow me.”


0:21:11.5 Jordan Syatt: And it was funny, she was like, “Honestly, I didn’t even realize that, da da da da.” I think just some people are just negative and they don’t even realize it, so I didn’t block her, but that’s the type of person that I would block. It’s like if you’re just negative every time you message me, out, done, I don’t need this shit.


0:21:30.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s smart. That’s a good proxy to scroll back, see what the history has been. Should we fire up some questions?


0:21:38.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, do you have some? Or am I gonna go on my…


0:21:41.6 Mike Vacanti: I have definitely one. We have several email questions, a lot of them, a lot of the email questions we have are similar, and so I kinda wanna do a full deep dive episode on that, that won’t be today, but there is one here that I think is interesting. So I’ll start with that. “Could you please discuss how to build community online? I realized Jordan,” and then he goes on to name a few others, “are a great example for having great communication and support in their comments section. How did you build that? I started an Instagram where I do reels to help people with their desk jobs and health and fitness. I get views and followers, but people aren’t interacting. How do I build community for those people? Thanks for your work. You’re a huge help and inspiration.


0:22:33.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so there’s a lot to unpack here. I think I’m gonna start with, the more just being a good person type thing, and then move on to the tactical later on. The vast majority of my time on social media is spent having individual conversations with people, like individual interactions. So before I had many people liking and commenting, if I saw some… If I saw one person like a post and they didn’t comment, I would often go in and DM them, and I would just be like, “Hey listen, I saw you liked my post, I’m out here trying to build my business, trying to grow my Instagram, and I just wanna say, I really appreciate you doing that.” That’s it. I’m not trying to cold DM from a perspective of, “Hey, is there any… ” I hate… “Hey, is there anything else I can help you with?” Shut the fuck up. We all know what that means. What that means is, can I eventually do something to the point where you’re gonna pay me so that… As a client? No, just like I’m being honest and being like, “I’m out here, I’m trying to grow my business and I appreciate you interacting. It really does help. So thank you so much.”


0:23:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Just like… It’s funny ’cause when people say, “Is there anything I can help you with?” It’s their way of trying to manipulate the conversation and to say like, “Hey, is there anything so that eventually you’ll have to owe me something?” whereas if you just genuinely say, “Thank you for interacting,” it’s not… It’s you saying thank you, you’re giving them a thank you, you’re not pretending to give them something so then they have to owe you something on the back end. It’s…


0:24:13.4 Jordan Syatt: When you go out of your way to be like, “Is there anything I can help you with?” It’s a very manipulative and an annoying thing that people can sniff out. So I would just go, “Hey, thank you so much, I’m trying to grow and I really appreciate you interacting. If you ever need anything, don’t hesitate to reach out.” And that’s it. And I think when people get those types of messages, it opens them up to… They have a personal relationship with you, they’re more likely to leave a comment. And that’s the vast majority of what my… Right now, what my time spent on social media is just messaging people.


0:24:41.1 Jordan Syatt: “Thank you so much. Hope you’re well, let me answer your question.” In between sets during my workouts, during my rest periods, I’ll just voice memo people. People ask me a question, I voice memo them, they’re like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe I got a voice response from you.” Obviously, this is after having built that community and people are messaging me, but I first started by doing exactly what I said…


0:25:02.5 Mike Vacanti: And real quick, you have been doing that for over 10 years.


0:25:07.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes, exactly. It takes a long time.


0:25:10.3 Mike Vacanti: So people can look at a snapshot of “your comments section” now or what it looks like in this window of time, but that’s after a decade plus of interacting and helping individuals genuinely for free.


0:25:23.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly.


0:25:25.8 Mike Vacanti: I would imagine… I would imagine the community and comments section didn’t look like this in 2012.


0:25:30.5 Jordan Syatt: No. Not at all. Didn’t look like this in 2012, 2014, 2016. It really didn’t start until probably 2018… 2017-2018, it really started to pick up. And another one is when someone does reply, it’s not enough just to like their comment, it’s not enough just to leave a thumbs up emoji or a fire… I hate when people do that shit. You know what’s annoying? Fuck anybody who, when you’re texting them and their response is just like thumbs up or like, “Okay.” I hate… I hate you if you do that. If you give me a thumbs up emoji response, I’m like, “Fuck you,” it’s like… It’s so annoying. It’s like, I hate that. Same with the people who go out of their way to text me, “HBD” on my birthday. It’s like, really? HBD? You couldn’t type out, “Happy birthday”? HBD.


0:26:30.7 Mike Vacanti: I would love a list of things that annoy Jordan because right now the two on here are this, and when you hold the door for somebody and they walk through without saying thank you.


0:26:41.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s the worst. That’s the worst… That’s the… You’re the supreme leader of fucking Starbucks. Get out of here. You’re welcome.


0:26:50.9 Mike Vacanti: The thumbs up is contextual a little bit, right? Depends on the conversation and the situation.


0:26:57.1 Jordan Syatt: I will only give someone just a pure thumbs up if I don’t like that person.


0:27:01.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, interesting. I think other people use it differently, unless my mom doesn’t like me, because we…


0:27:06.0 Jordan Syatt: Old people are different.


0:27:08.8 Mike Vacanti: There’s a generational thing when it comes to texting. And I see, okay.


0:27:09.7 Jordan Syatt: There’s a… Yeah. My wife’s grandfather does that all the time, and it’s totally different, and for him, he actually has a hard time seeing the letters. So for him, emojis are much easier because he can see the emoji and that’s literally how he’ll communicate via text. When I’m talking to someone in my age group and they just give me a thumbs up. No, listen, you’re not too busy to write down, “Okay, got it. Thanks.”


0:27:34.5 Mike Vacanti: Alright. So when you reply to a comment, give a genuine response, don’t just leave a thumbs up or a heart or a fire emoji.


0:27:41.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, don’t do that.


0:27:43.5 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:27:44.3 Jordan Syatt: I’m trying to think of another example. When someone’s… You’re emailing back and forth in a corporate environment, it’s like, you know when someone’s… You might even say this in an email with a client, where Bill would say something and then you’ll say, “As I said previously, or as I mentioned previously,” what you’re really saying is, “Motherfucker, I already told you this,” it’s like there are all these subliminal messages with what you’re doing so.


0:28:13.6 Mike Vacanti: Passive aggressive.


0:28:13.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, don’t do a single… Or even though there’s a line of emojis, it’s like give them a real response. If they leave a comment, “Hey, thank you so much for commenting, I really appreciate it.” Say that. Write that out. If they have a question, answer them in detail. It’s funny when I would… I don’t really do this in the comments anymore, but if someone would disagree with me or wanna debate with me in the comments section, I would do that all the time, because I know that it’s… I’m not gonna necessarily convince the person that I’m debating or arguing with, but other people are in the comments section, watching, and I guarantee the vast majority of you listening, if you’re ever scrolling through your Instagram and you’re looking at whatever is popping up in your feed, sometimes you’ll just look at the comments section to see what’s going on in there. That’s one of my favorite parts about political posts is not the post, but to see the comments section and the debates going on, I just wanna go see what people are arguing about.


0:29:09.9 Jordan Syatt: And when you show people that… When I say debate someone, I don’t mean scream or name call, or all caps lock them, it’s no, you’d be very respectful and open-minded and you just clearly state your opinion and why, and that helps build community because they see you’re being very respectful, you’re not being a dick. There are some people on social media who are just assholes and their communities are awful because people in the community are gonna act how you act. If it’s your page, you’re the leader of the community. I know people who are just such pieces of shit to the people who comment on their page, and then I know that in their communities and their paid communities, people are also dicks and huge pieces of shit to them, and then their communities really suffer as a result of it, and people don’t wanna join as a result of it.


0:29:57.7 Jordan Syatt: So if you want to build a great welcoming community, being the example of that and show people. So I think that’s the most important was just interacting with real people one by one, it’s the individual interactions that lead to that larger community, ’cause if you think about it, and the community is made up of individuals and how each individual acts makes up the community. If I see someone in the community who’s not a good member of that community, I will either have a conversation with them and say, “Hey, this needs to change” or I will remove them from the community, and that’s it. If someone’s like being a dick in the comment sections or any of that, I’ll remove them, I’ll block them. I don’t need that poisoning our community.


0:30:40.0 Mike Vacanti: I would imagine a similar thought process goes into… And it’s probably much more rare, but in the few times maybe that things like that have happened in the Inner Circle.


0:30:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, I’ve removed people.


0:30:52.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, the same community building guidelines or strategies or leadership, whatever you wanna call it.


0:30:58.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you take them out. Say, “I will gladly refund you your membership fee to take you out, so that you’re not ruining this for everybody else.” So I think it’s the individual interactions that are the most important. And then from there, I know a lot of people struggle to get people interacting, to get people commenting. And this is where, number one, more eyeballs help, so growing your page and getting more eyeballs on it is obviously important, but one of the best things you can do is provide them an incentive to leave a comment. So for example, if you look at my most recent YouTube video, I do the thing where I said, “Listen, if you leave a comment and tell me what you’re doing right now with your own mini cut, I’m gonna pick three people to win a free month in Inner Circle.” And that video has literally hundreds more comments than other videos. And they’re not just people leaving emojis or “Hey, I watched the video,” it’s people leaving in-depth, long, personal vulnerable comments about what they’re struggling with and what they’re going through, and it’s because I gave them an incentive to do it. And when I went on my Instagram, I said, “Hey, if you watch this video, inside the video, you’ll see how you can enter to win a free month in the Inner Circle.” I didn’t say what they need to comment on because then they wouldn’t watch the video, I want them to watch the video.


0:32:22.8 Mike Vacanti: They can watch the whole thing.


0:32:25.2 Jordan Syatt: Exactly. So they can learn, figure it out, and then ideally like the video so much, they’ll subscribe and wanna watch future videos, but giving them an incentive is very, very helpful, and it doesn’t have to be a free month in your program, it could be a free call it could be a free… You do their macros for free, it could be any… You could… Anything, there’s no shortage here, ’cause you could have an e-book that is literally just to give out as prizes, “Yo, I’ll give you a free copy of my e-book,” whatever it is, so giving them an incentive is probably the best tactical way to do that, but I think the best long-term strategy is just being really nice and interacting with people individually.


0:33:01.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I very much agree. I’m gonna take this in a slightly different direction, quick at least, have you… Do you have any insight on the bigger drivers of YouTube algo and reach right now? Because from… In the earlier days, and when I say earlier, I mean maybe like 2015-2016, likes and comments seem to have a disproportionately bigger effect on video reach on YouTube, whereas in the 2018 to 2020 timeframe, I wanna say, it seemed like watch time had fully taken over as the dominant metric, so even… The incentives used to… Incentives still work because community is good for reasons other than getting your video out there further, so everything still stands, but do you have any insight on how much comments or engagement with a video seem to matter for reach right now relative to watch time or other metrics?


0:34:02.2 Jordan Syatt: They definitely matter, but the most important metric is watch time, and this seems to be across all platforms, Instagram, TikTok, that’s really how they decide if a video is doing well, are people watching all the way to the end? Which is why you see a lot of these accounts being watch till the end or wait for it or wait until this happens, because it’s a strategy that they’ll use to get people to watch until the very end, which will mean it will push to more people. If they see that people are only watching the first two seconds and leaving, then they’re not gonna show it. You have to remember, these platforms… And we’ve spoken about this before, they’re advertising platforms. And the more, the longer that they can get someone to keep their eyeballs on the screen on their platform, the more chances they have to make money.


0:34:47.0 Jordan Syatt: So if you can keep people on a video for longer and get them to watch it for longer, the better. Now, that does not mean just always say, watch till the end because if it’s a shitty video and you always say “Watch till the end,” eventually, they’re just not gonna watch any of it because they see, they know what you’re doing. But if you make great content and you use those types of strategies… The most important thing is just making great content and then sparingly using those strategies to help get people to watch the whole thing. I’ll only say, “Watch the whole thing” if I really think it’s important, if it’s… Not every piece of content is gonna be your best piece of content, not every piece of content needs to go viral. I save it for the ones where I’m like, I really think this one has such an important message that I need people to watch the whole way through.


0:35:40.2 Mike Vacanti: Same logic probably applies to tap the screen and hold, or whatever to read on an Instagram story.


0:35:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, I only do that on the ones that I think it’s really, really important.


0:35:50.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re like, I just spent a half hour writing that and I crushed it and I want people to not skip over it because there’s a lot of text.


0:35:57.6 Jordan Syatt: I want people screenshotting my stories, sharing my stories, sending them to people or re-posting them. That’s why I spend so much time on it. If I really want them to read it, I’ll say, touch and hold the screen to read, and those are the ones that will… People will share all the time, people share my stories like crazy when I do stuff like that, but I’m not gonna do that on one that is more… Like for example, I think I did one on protein intake yesterday and I’ve done this a million fucking times, so I’m not gonna necessarily put that there ’cause they don’t need to do that, but if it’s more of a mindset one or a really, really in-depth or a nuanced discussion that you don’t want them to skim around, which people do anyway, literally… People deliberately, as part of this cut, I’ve been showing my weight tracker and my consistency calendar, which are all part of the Inner Circle app, and this is very deliberate on my part, ’cause I know people are gonna want these, and so they’re asking, which app is this, which app is this?


0:36:55.1 Jordan Syatt: “Oh, it’s the Inner Circle app.” Which is all by design. And I know all of the questions people are gonna ask about the app. Is the app only available to members? Is it available outside of the US? Is it available on both iPhone and Android? Is it in the App Store? I know all this. So yesterday, I posted and I answered all those questions in the post, and I outright said… I was like, “You will not find it in the App Store. You only get it once you join the Inner Circle.” And this woman messaged me, she was like, “I can’t find it in the App Store,” and I was like, “Read the post again.” I was like, God…


0:37:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Did she reply to that post?


0:37:33.1 Jordan Syatt: She replied to that post and said, “I can’t find it in the App Store.” I was like, “Read the post, like, god damn.” So that’s why I try and put as… I try… It’s funny, I also did a… On the protein post I put up yesterday, I said, “A minimum of 0.7 grams per pound of goal body weight,” and I underlined “minimum” with a flashing red light.


0:37:56.0 Jordan Syatt: And another woman replied and she was like, “Oh my God, I’m having too much protein.” And I was like, “How are you having too much protein?” She’s like “I’m having one gram per pound of goal body weight.” I was like, “Read the post again.” It’s… So no matter what you do, there are people who are not gonna read and not gonna comprehend, but that’s why I’ll always try and do stuff like that to really try and over-emphasize as best you can. But no matter what, there are gonna be people who don’t read.


0:38:21.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s a law of large numbers thing too, when you have that many followers and that many eyeballs on a story, you’re gonna get that…


0:38:28.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:38:30.8 Mike Vacanti: With anything. Sweet. You wanna fire up Q&A? Pick a couple of maybe rapid fires or a long one, who knows?


0:38:37.6 Jordan Syatt: Someone asked me… I don’t see it, but this guy asked, he was like, “Hey, did you do one-on-one coaching before you did your membership?”


0:38:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Yes, Jordan did do one-on-one coaching before his membership. [laughter] The answer is yes.


0:38:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:39:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I think there’s a real… I think people… Personal trainers and people who are starting out, growing their business, and even people who are fitness enthusiasts and follow a lot of people and enjoy lifting and are thinking about starting a business, see people with successful memberships, and I’ll say like a handful of people with successful memberships, and think “I want to do that.”


0:39:23.9 Jordan Syatt: Mm-hmm.


0:39:24.4 Mike Vacanti: And so it makes sense that… ‘Cause I assume the questions coming from a place of… Or even how it’s not, oftentimes this type of question is coming from a place of, “I wanna go straight to building my own membership,” which is very, very difficult and… So…


0:39:42.5 Jordan Syatt: He said, “Did you do one-on-one coaching before? Because I’m doing one-on-one now and it doesn’t seem scalable.”


0:39:47.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, yeah, one-on-one… Fitness coaching is, by definition, not scalable. It’s one-on-one. You have finite time as a coach and as a human. Every additional client you take on requires more time. And so literally, due to the definition of the word scale, one-on-one is not scalable, even if you have… No matter what systems, no matter what level of efficiency you can implement, you cap out at a certain point. And quality of coaching is gonna go down before the point where you truly cap out, so your cap is even lower than you might think.


0:40:26.2 Mike Vacanti: So if the goal is make as much money as possible, then a one-on-one coaching business isn’t the long-term solution. It still actually might be the stepping stone. It still might be the revenue that funds you for one, two, three, four years while you build audience so you can have a scalable company or a scalable business model, but one-on-one coaching isn’t the long-term strategy to maximize dollars.


0:40:53.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I really think it depends on your goals as a business owner, right? It’s like if the sole goal is to maximize… Well, here’s the thing, if your goals to maximize dollars. Let’s say that, your goal is to maximize dollars. If you don’t have a very large audience, your… You will maximize dollars with one-on-one coaching with like a mid-tier…


0:41:26.5 Mike Vacanti: In a short term.


0:41:27.8 Jordan Syatt: In a short term, if you don’t have a large audience, right? So if you have… I don’t know. Let’s just say you’ve got 5000 Instagram followers and normal engagement, like a regular engagement with 5000 Instagram followers. You can make well into the six figures with that with one-on-one coaching for your entire life and do very, very well. But if you try to maximize dollars with that same size audience through a membership, you will not be making into the six figures with that audience. You just won’t. You won’t. But if you build a bigger audience, whether it’s through organic growth or advertising or whatever, well yeah, then you can maximize dollars through membership, but it has to start with Gary’s phrase that… The first phrase that I learned from Gary that really hit home for me was attention is the asset.


0:42:24.3 Jordan Syatt: Attention is the asset. Having eyeballs on you. ‘Cause once you have eyeballs on you, you can do anything you want with those eyeballs. And I think that’s what people don’t understand is a lot of people wanna start a membership because they think, “Oh well, it’s lower cost, so more people will sign up. It’s like, number one, no, that’s not the case. Number two, I think it’s gonna be much more profitable and you will maximize your dollars with a smaller audience with a relatively lower, like a mid-tier cost option working with fewer people. So having 50 clients at $300 a month I think is gonna be much more profitable for you than having 100, 200 people at $8 a month.


0:43:07.1 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:43:08.3 Jordan Syatt: Way more profitable without… And it’s gonna be a better long-term strategy for you. So I think people overestimate how many people will sign up just because it’s a lower cost offer. It’s like people don’t just pull out their credit card simply because something costs less. They need to really want to join it. And you have to remember the churn rate I a membership is much higher than churn rate in one-on-one coaching. So the only time it becomes more profitable dollar-wise, is when you have a big enough audience of people who are ready, willing and able to pay you for that offer. So that… I think that has to be understood. So you know what I mean?


0:43:48.6 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. And which feeds into… So if the goal is maximize dollars over the life of the business, then you’re gonna spend a lot of time building your audience.


0:44:02.4 Jordan Syatt: Yes, exactly.


0:44:02.5 Mike Vacanti: A lot of time, every day for many years, build it because you need a very large audience to have a large membership.


0:44:11.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct. If…


0:44:12.9 Mike Vacanti: But you’re right, in a one-year window, if your goal is, “Okay, I wanna make as much as I can this year because I need it for whatever reason,” then one-on-one coaching is going to make more money because you… It’s very unlike… Unbelievably unlikely/borderline impossible to build a massive audience from scratch in one year and launch a membership.


0:44:33.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, so that’s why if someone tells me their long-term goal is they want to have a membership and they wanna have a scalable business, the first step for them is, let’s get really good at making content and grow your audience. That is… Unless you have a big audience already that’s very engaged, that’s the first step. And it’s funny ’cause that’s usually the last thing they wanna do. They wanna focus on, “Well, I wanna learn sales copy, and I wanna learn email marketing, and I wanna learn all this… ” No, no, no. Step number one for the first seven years is get really good at making content and build a big audience. And once you have… Attention is the asset. Once you have that, then you can do anything you want. If you don’t have that yet, none of the other shit matters.


0:45:21.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s like all these other things are the supplements. It’s the creatine, it’s the like, I don’t know, the beta-alanine, it’s all of these extra supplements you could be taking. But if you’re not going to the gym, it doesn’t fucking matter. Going to the gym is your audience. You need to have that audience, posting content and building a bigger audience. But if someone tells me, “You know what, I don’t want to make… I don’t need to make as much money as possible. I just… I want to have a sustainable career that supports me and my family. I’ll work a decent amount.” You don’t really need… You don’t even need to work 40 hours a week to have a one-on-one coaching business, like a successful one-on-one coaching business.


0:46:07.9 Mike Vacanti: To build it, you definitely do.


0:46:10.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, to build it, yes. To sustain it, yeah.


0:46:14.5 Mike Vacanti: Correct.


0:46:15.4 Jordan Syatt: Because it’s not just the coaching and the programming and interacting, it’s also making the content and all of that. So yeah. So to build it, yes. And you might even need to do more than 40 hours a week. But you…


0:46:24.0 Mike Vacanti: I would say definitely.


0:46:25.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:46:25.5 Mike Vacanti: Or should plan on working more than 40 hours a week in those first one to four, three years…


0:46:30.3 Jordan Syatt: Five years, yeah.


0:46:31.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:46:31.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:46:31.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. At least a few.


0:46:33.9 Jordan Syatt: And then once you’ve already built it, you’ve got 40 to 60 one-on-one clients, you could maintain that with 15 to 25-hour weeks.


0:46:46.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. On the coaching side, most people are still gonna be needing to produce content at some level…


0:46:50.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:46:51.9 Mike Vacanti: To keep a…


0:46:54.9 Jordan Syatt: But even then, referrals are such a huge… Once you got that like 40 to 60 client range, so many referrals, you’ve got a lot of people who come back to coaching, you got those clients who stay on for years at a time, so the amount of time that you need to spend creating content is so much lower. I think you’re the prime example of this. You have such a great client roster and so many referrals and so many people who eventually come back to coaching, it’s like you don’t need to make consistent content because you’ve done this for so long.


0:47:25.6 Mike Vacanti: Correct. I think it’s… One possibly overlooked aspect of that, not with me specifically, but just in general here is you also need to deliver on coaching.


0:47:37.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:47:37.7 Mike Vacanti: You need to do a really good job to get clients coming back, to get referrals, to get like… And… Which is part of the reason why most masterminds and gurus and people charging $7500 a month for a random course, everything I’ve seen is hyper-focused on business, it’s why so many of the questions in the mentorship Q&As and so much of what we talk about is about being a great coach because that’s where the repeat business comes from, that’s where… You don’t just have people meeting the minimum commitment and cancelling immediately and going to someone else is by executing on being a great coach. I had one other thought when you were talking about… What were you saying? Attention and versus advertising. Do you remember Gary’s thing from several years back that was along the lines of like, “I didn’t buy these Nikes because they cookied me.”


0:48:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:48:38.4 Mike Vacanti: “They didn’t get me in a sales funnel, They didn’t get me on their, whatever upsell. They didn’t… ” It’s… And he was talking about brand versus selling, and you were talking about building brand through content. That’s where long-term success is going to come from is… And it’s a personal… Like Nike is a global brand, but the content that each of us put out and how we are observed online creates our “personal brand”, and that branding is much, much more important than any tactics, any scripts for a cold DM strategy to cold convert a client to your $5000 a month high ticket sales fitness business like… It’s all trash.


0:49:21.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:49:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Garbage.


0:49:23.9 Jordan Syatt: If you… I don’t know if we’ve spoken about this before, but did we talk about what does brand mean in the last podcast?


0:49:29.1 Mike Vacanti: Not in the last podcast.


0:49:30.7 Jordan Syatt: So when I ask… I feel like a lot of people use the word brand in the same way that people use the word metabolism. Most people who say metabolism don’t know what the fuck… “Oh, I’ve got a slow metabolism.” I’m like, “What is your metabolism?” “Umm, I don’t know.” They have no idea. So a lot of these business people like, “Oh yeah, I’m talking about brand, brand, I gotta build my brand.” What is your brand? And they have no idea what their brand is. And I think the best way to describe brand is how people feel when they think about you. What emotion do they feel when they hear your name come up in conversation, or they see your face pop up in their feed?” Nothing to do with that piece of content, but what is the first emotion inside of them that they feel when they think about you or initially hear you? What’s the first thing that they feel? That’s brand to me. And I think the best business you can build is a brand in which people just… They get excited or happy, or they feel grateful for you. Because I think a very successful business, you don’t need to be a great copywriter, you don’t need to have good sales copy, you don’t need to have anything other than just a group of people who are super grateful for you and who want to support you? That’s it.


0:50:53.3 Jordan Syatt: If you have a group of people… This is the thousand true fans, right? If you have a group of people who are just grateful for you and will support you, you’re good. That’s it. That’s… I mean, if you think about a brick and mortar business, you have a family-owned business who’s been in the town for years, and you could go to a big chain, maybe get something at a lower cost, but you go to that store to support that family-owned business because you like them and you know that they’re there for you if you need help, they have good customer service, they’ll go out of their way to order a part for you that maybe that wasn’t in the store because you appreciate them. And you support the small family-owned business because you appreciate them. You want to support them. That’s what you wanna do for people. You want to… That’s why you help people for free, because that builds a brand image, people feel grateful. And that’s aside from the fact that it makes you feel good and you enjoy doing it. But that’s what I think builds a really good sustainable business is a group of people who are just grateful for you.


0:51:57.4 Jordan Syatt: And that I think is a good brand. And that’s where you don’t need to worry about sales copy. You don’t need to worry about that stuff because people wanna support you anyway. You could come up with anything and they’ll buy it because they just wanna support you, even if they’re not gonna use it.


0:52:09.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s a great description. And obviously the winning… To maximize having both is ideal.


0:52:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, 100%.


0:52:17.6 Mike Vacanti: If you’re a great copywriter and great brand, that’s…


0:52:20.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:52:20.6 Mike Vacanti: I mean I’ve… I am the worst salesman of all time and somehow have sold a lot of things.


0:52:27.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, because people appreciate you.


0:52:31.9 Mike Vacanti: Well, I don’t… I wouldn’t… Sure, I’ll take that compliment. But basically, you can do it having zero sales skills.


0:52:39.3 Jordan Syatt: You don’t have zero sales skills.


0:52:40.9 Mike Vacanti: I have zero. I don’t understand… We hosted a seminar and you said, “Who here doesn’t know what a lead magnet is?” and everyone at the seminar knew what a lead magnet was, but I did not.


0:52:50.7 Jordan Syatt: And we were up on stage, we were up in front of everybody and you’re like, “I don’t know what lead magnet… ” [laughter]


0:52:54.4 Mike Vacanti: “Hey Jord… Just in case anyone here doesn’t know… They might be embarrassed to put their hand up…”


0:53:00.5 Jordan Syatt: “Why don’t you explain that for everybody?”




0:53:08.4 Jordan Syatt: That was good.


0:53:09.3 Mike Vacanti: You were sipping some coffee over there?


0:53:11.2 Jordan Syatt: No, it was a Diet Coke.


0:53:13.1 Mike Vacanti: Why do you say that like you just got caught doing something bad?


0:53:18.3 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been having too many. I had a good streak where I was like, yeah, one a day, maybe even none at that, but lately… And my wife got a bunch and it’s just… It’s in the house. And I know there’s nothing wrong with it, da da da, but I just don’t like… I would rather drink water. I think I just would rather do that. And I’ve definitely in the last four days, been drinking more Diet Coke than I think I should. So yeah, not overly pleased with… I also do that I think when I cut weight as well. It’s just like, it’s something sweet, it’s low calorie, it’s filling. So that is often a…


0:53:56.5 Mike Vacanti: You think that…


0:53:56.5 Jordan Syatt: That absolutely is like a habit that I get back into when I go into weight loss, is I’ll start drinking more of that, ’cause it’s a sweet thing I can have that has your calories and fills you up. So yeah. But I need to just get back to water.


0:54:10.9 Mike Vacanti: And how often are you really in a deficit? Like 60 days a year maybe?


0:54:15.2 Jordan Syatt: Maybe. Yeah, maybe.


0:54:16.8 Mike Vacanti: Probably more like 30?


0:54:19.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:54:20.2 Mike Vacanti: If it gets you over this hump, then great.


0:54:21.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. You could hear the disappointment in my voice. [laughter]


0:54:26.0 Mike Vacanti: I could… Yeah. I could, yeah. That’s a good reason though.


0:54:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s an easy way to get through a deficit or to help make the deficit a little bit easier. If you’re listening to this, you should make content on that, like ways to make a calorie deficit easier. It’s a super good piece of content.


0:54:43.9 Mike Vacanti: There you go. Boom.


0:54:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Video pods coming soon. Could be.


0:54:49.6 Mike Vacanti: They actually are.




0:54:56.4 Mike Vacanti: We’re actually gonna see you very soon.


0:54:56.5 Jordan Syatt: You’re gonna see us very soon. [laughter]


0:55:04.8 Mike Vacanti: Alright. Have a great day, have a great weekend after it. Have a great workout. See you soon.


0:55:07.9 Jordan Syatt: See you.

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