Episode 107: Workout Program Design, Falling Out with Old Friends, 30-Minute Workouts, and More…

0:00:00.0 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on? We are about to get into the episode. We’re actually recording this after we already recorded the episode, but we wanted to let you know that on February 8th, The Online Fitness Business Mentorship is having a huge sale, $300 off. If you want to be notified when the sale goes live, get on our email list. The link is in the show notes. $300 off to join The Online Fitness Business Mentorship. If you want to grow your business, you wanna get more clients, you wanna help more people all around the world while being able to support your family with this income, this is it. We’re here to help. Not the gurus, not the masterminds. This is real no BS way to help you help more people around the world, get more clients, teach them how to get great results, and also help you and your family along the way. So get on the email list. Link is in the show notes. $300 off starting February 8th. Let’s get into the episode.

[music]

0:01:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:01:01.2 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael?

0:01:02.4 Mike Vacanti: What’s up, bro? How are you?

0:01:03.8 Jordan Syatt: You definitely have a story to tell me.

0:01:05.7 Mike Vacanti: I sure do.

0:01:05.8 Jordan Syatt: I definitely did something that you had wrote down…

0:01:07.6 Mike Vacanti: I can’t believe that you remember that I have a story to tell you.

0:01:10.7 Jordan Syatt: I literally… As the Riverside was counting down from 5, 4, when it got to like 2, I was like, “How is he gonna start it?” And I was like, “Oh my God, he has a story that he didn’t tell me the other day.” So I’m excited to hear this.

0:01:22.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m sitting on the beach in Florida. Perfect day, pretty busy beach, but people are spread out enough, had a week of family vacation, sun coming down. Just the right temp. Not too hot, not too cold. Little bit of breeze. Looking around, soaking it all in, feels great, this is amazing. My eyes gaze across the horizon and the water, and then I come down and I see my body and I’m like, “Oh, disgusting.” [laughter] And in that moment, I was like, “This is a real moment in my life.”

0:02:03.7 Jordan Syatt: What? Do you have more body fat than you want?

0:02:06.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, just soggy. My buddy Barre and I always used to describe it as soggy, which is [laughter] like three weeks of holiday eating absolutely whatever, training frequency way down… Kinda compounded into January, didn’t have a real fresh restart, had the elbow shoulder thing back in the fall, never got back up to adequate training volume. So just less lean mass, no residual pump, and way too much holiday cookies, etcetera, soggy. And in that moment, I was like, “It’s all gonna be different.”

0:02:42.1 Jordan Syatt: That was like the top view, like when you’re looking down at your body from the top? Not like when you’re looking in the mirror, you’re just looking from the top and you’re like, “Ooh.”

0:02:48.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, just looking down, and I’m like, “This isn’t what I should look like in a beach chair. This is not acceptable, Mike. [laughter] Come on.” And so that’s the moment it all changed.

0:03:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Did you say anything to anyone else there, or was it just you?

0:03:02.5 Mike Vacanti: Complete… No. No, what am I gonna say? “Hey, Mom, I look fat.”

0:03:06.9 Jordan Syatt: “Mom, do I look fat?”

0:03:08.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. [laughter] Especially because we all hold ourselves to our own standards, and so obviously my too soft, not enough lean, not looking good is different to everyone else, and it’s relative, but everyone has a moment where they’re like, “Okay, I gotta clean this up a bit and feel better,” and so that’s what I did.

0:03:28.3 Jordan Syatt: And do you wanna share your plan, or no?

0:03:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m fine with it ’cause it’s a short plan, so like a month basically of… And I’m a week into it, of track, eat fewer calories. I bought a bunch of apples and pears, so I have a couple of those a day. Don’t eat processed crap like ice cream and Doritos and McDonald’s, and just be reasonable and be in a slight deficit, and that’s the plan.

0:04:00.8 Jordan Syatt: I feel like even when you do eat McDonald’s or Chick-fil-A, you never go for the real bad stuff. You’re not getting the fried stuff, you always go grilled chicken. I don’t think you’re getting the fries.

0:04:11.2 Mike Vacanti: Well, McDonald’s and Burger King both got rid of their grilled chicken around COVID ’cause no one was buying it, so they don’t even have… But yeah, I try and make the best possible option.

0:04:20.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh really? So what do you get at McDonald’s then?

0:04:23.7 Mike Vacanti: I get crap at McDonald’s.

0:04:25.9 Jordan Syatt: What do you get? What’s your McDonald’s?

0:04:27.8 Mike Vacanti: I love the number two.

0:04:29.2 Jordan Syatt: What’s the number two?

0:04:30.4 Mike Vacanti: Two cheeseburgers.

0:04:31.7 Jordan Syatt: Do you get fries with it or just two cheeseburgers?

0:04:33.9 Mike Vacanti: Depends how dialed I am. Probably usually just the two cheeseburgers and the protein shake.

0:04:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Okay.

0:04:40.4 Mike Vacanti: But like, that’s not even the point. The point is like, “Okay.” Look down at a place, real aha moment. One every 10 years maybe. It’s like, “Okay, things are just gonna be different now,” and now they’re different.

0:04:51.7 Jordan Syatt: I just think it’s funny that your crap is still pretty dialed. [laughter]

0:05:00.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s why I don’t set an objective barometer for anyone. That’s why when a client’s like, “Should I keep bulking, or should I start losing fat?” I’ll tell them objectively, like, “You’re in a position where you can do either. You’re lean enough to continue bulking. If for whatever reason you really wanna cut, we can, but you look great,” and let them decide because that decision is purely individual and psychological.

0:05:24.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Are your suits fitting?

0:05:27.7 Mike Vacanti: Who knows? Who knows?

[laughter]

0:05:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Long-time listeners will remember that story.

0:05:32.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, man. Maybe it’s not once every 10 years, maybe it’s like an annual thing that I do. [laughter] Those suit pants, man, I was so uncomfortable all day. But that was also… [laughter] In fairness, in fairness, that was quads, hamstrings, glutes, and waist, but it was just like thick boy from the knees to the core across the board. [laughter] Yeah.

0:05:57.6 Jordan Syatt: Thick boy. I could just picture you being in a bad mood that whole day walking around, just feeling like, “Oh, I’m so uncomfortable. Like, what did I do?” [chuckle]

0:06:08.5 Mike Vacanti: In the suit pants?

0:06:09.0 Jordan Syatt: In the pants. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:06:10.1 Mike Vacanti: The beach day, I was amazing, so I was like, “I don’t care. No one else cares.” Like, who cares in the micro? But in the macro, it’s like, “I can do better. I can do better for my health.” Yeah.

0:06:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. The suit pants, though it’s just like you’re wearing it and it’s uncomfortable, like it’s a physical reminder all the time. [laughter]

0:06:26.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, it’s not even that. It’s a nice suit, and I’m afraid I’m gonna split my pants. I’m like bending over to pick something up, it’s like, “Is it gonna go? Am I gonna be the guy who’s underwear is showing at the funeral? That’s not optimal.” And so…

0:06:39.9 Jordan Syatt: Like new leggings that came out that show the whole butt.

0:06:42.6 Mike Vacanti: Oh man. Man.

0:06:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh man. [laughter]

0:06:45.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know why you’ve gotta bring that up, bro. I almost made a comeback to social media, but I didn’t.

0:06:54.1 Jordan Syatt: Between 4:00 to 5:00 PM yesterday, he almost made a real big… Central, 4:00 to 5:00 PM Central, you almost hit a real big comeback post about that.

0:07:01.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Are we gonna talk about… You’re really leading me down this road?

0:07:03.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, let’s talk about it. If there’s a place to talk about it, let’s do it. Let’s do it.

0:07:06.2 Mike Vacanti: It is on the PT pod. I was gonna make… Well, basically, there’s these assless leggings that Kate Hudson’s fitness or athletic wear brand came out with.

0:07:16.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s like assless chaps that are like fitness clothing.

0:07:19.6 Mike Vacanti: They’re leggings with like a built-in thong and the entire ass is out, and it’s like a thong ass more leggings, and I was gonna post it on my Instagram feed and make a joke about women in the gym, especially because in Florida, training in this commercial gym, gym wear has just changed. And here in Minnesota, I’m pretty remote with my training. There aren’t a lot of people. It’s pretty low-key. At the commercial gym I was at in Florida… I don’t even know how to describe it, like a Victoria Secret Fashion Show/fitness slash… Like, there’s just lots of body parts exposed, lots of very revealing outfits, and yeah, I don’t know what else to say.

0:08:04.3 Jordan Syatt: And it’s comical ’cause it’s like you could see someone wearing those leggings with their whole ass literally hanging out and then making a post on social media like, “Why are all these people staring at me? I don’t get it.” It’s like, “Well, ’cause your ass is hanging out of your fucking pants, like literally.”

0:08:20.7 Mike Vacanti: “I’m here to work out. Stop sexualizing my ass that is exposed in the gym.” [laughter] Yeah.

0:08:31.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so 4:00 to 5:00 PM Central might be your comeback time? We’ll see.

0:08:36.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s not gonna be educational though, it’s just gonna be what it’s gonna be. But that’s not what’s next on the docket. What’s next on the docket, I wanted to lead into was any interesting training updates from you.

0:08:50.8 Jordan Syatt: I sort of J-ed that whole introduction.

0:08:53.2 Mike Vacanti: That was cool. Good for you.

0:08:53.4 Jordan Syatt: You know what I mean? That was good, right?

0:08:55.4 Mike Vacanti: Versatile.

0:08:56.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. Wait, so what do you say? What am I talking about?

0:08:58.7 Mike Vacanti: Anything interesting in your training. I get asked all the time what my training looks like right now, and so I feel like it’s a good recurring. Like at least every couple of months, we should…

0:09:08.4 Jordan Syatt: With my training?

0:09:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:09:11.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, a lot of cardio, and I’m really enjoying it.

0:09:14.8 Mike Vacanti: Gary asked me what your… “How’s Jordan’s training?”

0:09:18.0 Jordan Syatt: And what did you tell him?

0:09:19.0 Mike Vacanti: I told him a lot of cardio.

0:09:20.2 Jordan Syatt: “That I’m just doing jiu-jitsu everyday?”

0:09:21.8 Mike Vacanti: jiu-jitsu five days a week, a lot of cardio, Zone 2 heart health, jiu-jitsu performance, lifting at least a few days a week.

0:09:28.3 Jordan Syatt: What Gary say about that, like the cardio?

0:09:30.6 Mike Vacanti: He immediately went to like, “Jordan really let himself go during our three years together, but he’s really got it back now.”

[laughter]

0:09:39.3 Jordan Syatt: He’s true. He’s right. Yeah, I did. Yeah, I was like, “I’m just gonna work these three years.”

0:09:44.6 Mike Vacanti: I think he even said like, “Following me all over, and he went so hard on his business.”

0:09:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude it’s a lot. I’m lifting two to three days a week, so Viada is doing my programming. He has me lifting three days a week, but sometimes I’ll extend the week, so it’ll be like a 10-day week essentially. So it won’t be all done in seven days, just ’cause sometimes depending on… I base everything off of my jiu-jitsu. So the more intense jiu-jitsu is getting, the less intensely or the less frequently I’ll lift. So if jiu-jitsu is more drilling and light work, then I’ll strength-train three times a week heavy. If jiu-jitsu is less drilling and more competitive, rolling and real fighting, then I’ll extend my week, so I won’t lift as often. It will be like three times in 10 days, and that’s where I’m at right now. We have some competitions coming up. For example, today we drilled for the first half, and then for the last 32 minutes, I fought non-stop. So it was like Alex, my coach, and this other guy, Kevin, so we’d go two minutes back and forth. I’d go two minutes against Alex, two minutes against Kevin, two against Alex, two against Kevin, two against Alex, two against Kevin. And we would do eight-minute rounds, so at the end of those eight minutes, we take a one-minute rest and then go again, and then do the same thing for 32 minutes straight, and that was…

0:11:06.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s brutal.

0:11:06.9 Jordan Syatt: It was great. Kevin at the end of it was like, “Dude, your cardio is fucking insane,” because I was fine. I wasn’t even really that tired. And so my cardio is, without question, the best it’s ever been, which I’m really excited about. And I’m just enjoying the cardio, man. It’s fun… The cardio isn’t fun, and I’ll clarify that, in terms of, especially the Zone 2, like the hour-long cardios that they do, if I was just doing cardio without any distraction, it wouldn’t be fun. But right now, watching Game of Thrones the second time through, I can’t wait for my cardio so I can watch Game of Thrones the second time around. Like, it’s fun. And finding good shows or good podcasts, whatever it is, or getting on the phone with a buddy and talking to them, or doing an Instagram live… And actually, I really like doing Instagram lives and stuff when I do Zone 2, because it forces me to truly be in Zone 2, ’cause if I find myself being really out of breath, not able to answer questions, like, “I am going too hard.” Yeah, so it’s great, man. Training is going super well.

0:12:12.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s a clinic you’re putting on in habit stacking right there.

0:12:16.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. Oh, thanks, bro.

0:12:18.1 Mike Vacanti: James Clear would be extraordinarily proud, as what everyone who plagiarized James Clear.

[laughter]

0:12:24.8 Jordan Syatt: Atomic Habits. Every coach who’s plagiarized Atomic Habits on social media.

0:12:28.6 Mike Vacanti: Would also be proud of you. I got a new theory about habit stacking. [laughter]

0:12:34.2 Jordan Syatt: I was just thinking, and I made this whole thing up. [laughter] I don’t know where it came from. It’s like in Talladega Nights when… Have you ever watched Talladega… Not Talladega Nights, it was Will Ferrell’s Blades of Glory. Did you ever see that?

0:12:48.1 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t see that whole movie, no.

0:12:49.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh man, there’s just one moment where…

0:12:51.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m not a big figure skater.

[laughter]

0:12:54.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s not a figure skate… It is about figure skating, but it’s comical. Anyway, he gets off and he makes this ridiculous quote. And I’m gonna butcher the quote. It was something like, “You can fly as high as you want,” or something like that, whatever it is. And this guy is like, “Wow, where did you come up with that?” And Will Ferrell’s like, “I don’t know. I just made it up.” And then it pans in on a huge banner behind him with exact quote. [laughter] All these people are reading Atomic Habits. They’re like, “Oh, that was a really good chapter.” And then they go on social media, like… So I was just thinking about this with my clients, and I came up with this new strategy. [laughter]

0:13:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Yes, yes. That’s worth a re-read though. That’s one… I have a new theory about reading fewer books and instead, fewer new books and re-reading the really good ones, because… So I have gotten through half of that audiobook again and so many things jogged my memory that I had forgotten the first time through.

0:13:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Same thing with like rewatching Game of Thrones.

0:13:52.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, well, that’s actually… That’s even different because it’s such a complex show the first time through and there’s so many characters. You don’t really know what’s going on. You hit the ground running from episode one that the second time through, you pick up so much back story and just like, it’s more enjoyable the second time through.

0:14:09.4 Jordan Syatt: You’re 100% right. And I know I told you this the other day. I was like, “The first time through, I couldn’t keep track of who is who and which characters were which. Now I’m seeing all of the intertwining story lines.” And I didn’t realize that Stannis Baratheon was Robert’s brother. I didn’t know that the first time through. And obviously they had the same name, but I didn’t put those two together. It was like… That was a huge thing for me watching in this re-watch right now. But yeah, it’s awesome. And it’s also cool to know the people’s backstories now and to have a better understanding of them. I’m also seeing them in a different light like Joffrey. Man, Joffrey is terrible, but I also feel bad for him. There are moments in which you can see that this kid with the right leadership and with the right person to lead him, he could have been great, but because he had Cersei and because he just had terrible, terrible leadership around him, he just fell down that path. So terrible and no excuse, but I also understand like Cersei is just the worst.

0:15:23.6 Mike Vacanti: Yep. [chuckle] Yeah, she is. Probably second to Ramsay Bolton. Where are you… You’re in season two?

0:15:31.1 Jordan Syatt: Yes, season two, episode three.

0:15:33.2 Mike Vacanti: Season two is… I mean, the last two seasons, I don’t remember, was it six and seven or seven and eight? Whatever the last two seasons are, are the worst, like the writing just fell off an absolute cliff ’cause they had no books to go off of, but in one through five. Season two is my least favorite, so keep grinding through it. Don’t stop.

0:15:51.5 Jordan Syatt: I like season two so far.

0:15:53.3 Mike Vacanti: Three really picks up, and four is amazing.

0:15:56.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you watching anything good right now?

0:16:03.3 Mike Vacanti: White Lotus season two now.

0:16:05.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I’ve heard of that.

0:16:06.3 Mike Vacanti: On HBO Max. I brought it up to you a couple of episodes ago.

0:16:08.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you told me about it. Okay.

0:16:10.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. HBO… There’s… I mean, Game of Thrones has a lot of sex scenes too, but White Lotus slightly overuses sex scenes, I think, which is like… We’re not teenagers. It’s not like an exciting thing. It’s just like this extra unnecessary… Whatever. People can go see that if they wanna see that. It doesn’t add anything. But the writing and the characters and the acting and how accurately they mimic current culture is almost second to none.

0:16:45.4 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:16:45.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I really enjoy it in a weird way.

0:16:48.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay, I need to watch this.

0:16:51.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. There’s a great scene…

0:16:52.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s it about?

0:16:55.8 Mike Vacanti: Like a hotel, the operations of a hotel and rich people that are over there on vacation, but it’s the dynamics between the characters. So in season two, there’s this girl who’s there with her boss and she’s looking for fun and adventure, 22-year-old girl, and then there’s a guy who she meets, but the guy is like… Went to Stanford, very buttoned up, super nerdy, would have feminist in his Twitter bio, type of like… You can get where I’m going with this.

0:17:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:17:29.4 Mike Vacanti: And then there’s this kind of bad boy guy, and she starts with the other dude and she’s still very bored with him, but it’s vacation, so she’s with him, and then the bad boy guy comes along and the other guy is nowhere to be found. The other guy’s at lunch with his dad and his grandpa who are… He basically… He thinks very little of them because they’re like old school and oppressive and whatever. [laughter] And so he’s giving them the speech about the right way to be a man, and the grandpa is looking at him like, “Back in my day, we respected the opinions of our elders, but these new kids are… ” It hits on those issues in a fun and accurate way.

0:18:12.6 Jordan Syatt: Got it, got it, got it. Okay. Alright, awesome. I’m gonna watch that next then.

0:18:16.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:18:18.1 Jordan Syatt: I get uncomfortable with some of the sex scenes in Game Of Thrones, ’cause I’m watching it when I’m doing cardio, [chuckle] and there’s a busy gym behind me and I’m like, “People are gonna call the management and say I’m watching porn on this.”

[laughter]

0:18:28.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:18:30.2 Jordan Syatt: ‘Cause some of them are like real. I’m like, “Jeez. Like, Alright, you gotta… This is a little bit intense.”

0:18:38.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s almost like they felt… I don’t know. A lot of shows I think feel they need that shock value to pull people in, but shows stand on their own.

0:18:46.7 Jordan Syatt: I just think about the actors and the actresses, and I’m like, “Y’all are naked, and right up in the other person’s junk with a whole film crew around you.” And you know… Like they don’t do this in one take, they’re there for often hours at a time. Like, “Alright, do that again, do that again.” And moaning, and I’m like, “This has gotta just be dreadful, going through that process.” You got lights on you, the make up, you’ve got people watching, “Cut, you’re not moaning right. Da, da, da, da.” Like, “Alright, hump them again.” I’m like, “Oh my God.” Could you imagine doing that in front of a whole crew? That’s crazy.

0:19:28.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, Clips Nation, Jordan analyzing sex scenes in TV shows.

0:19:34.2 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] That’s not a clip. It’s not a clip we’re publishing.

0:19:38.9 Mike Vacanti: No, no, not a clip.

0:19:39.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh man. Not on Instagram at least.

0:19:44.5 Mike Vacanti: Okay, so your training, not a lot of changes other than… There’s really not a lot of changes, a lot of the same.

0:19:51.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I do the same shit over and over and over and over and over again, and try and get better.

0:19:55.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, even on the days you don’t want to?

0:19:57.7 Jordan Syatt: Especially on the days I don’t want to. It’s funny, my wife will… ‘Cause I do something ever day, everyday, and it’s just gotten to be really good for me mentally and emotionally, physically. It’s not hard, but at the very least, I’ll do Zone 2 everyday. And I’ve been working out at night, just because I’ve been doing that since I’ve had my daughter. And I do it like 9:00 PM or 10:00 PM. And every day, my wife is like, “Are you gonna just take a break?” And I’m like, “Attack mode, I’ve gotta be ready to go. I’ve gotta be ready to protect the family.” And she laughs and she thinks it’s funny, but yeah, I’m in attack mode man, I just gotta be ready to go at all times.

0:20:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. She won’t think it’s funny when you literally save her life in a moment because of the preparation that you’ve done.

0:20:44.6 Jordan Syatt: And she’s super supportive of it.

0:20:46.4 Mike Vacanti: Of course.

0:20:47.1 Jordan Syatt: And last night she made your favorite chicken parm. The chicken parm that she makes, so good. Yeah. Super, super good.

0:20:51.6 Mike Vacanti: And you didn’t even invite me over. That’s disappointing.

0:20:55.2 Jordan Syatt: You’re always invited over. You’re just in…

0:20:57.8 Mike Vacanti: A different state.

0:20:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Minnesota.

0:21:01.2 Mike Vacanti: I, for the first time since the year 2013, am intentionally, sub-optimally, structuring my training frequency.

0:21:13.4 Jordan Syatt: What’s that mean?

0:21:14.5 Mike Vacanti: It means instead of hitting each body part twice a week, just for fun, and for no other reason other than it sounds like fun, I’m doing a push-pull leg three times a week, blasting everything… Not even really blasting it that hard, blasting some stuff. But one day per muscle group, and that’s it. And giving myself more time to recover and less training frequency and making me look forward to each workout. I don’t know how long it’ll last, definitely the next month, but that’s what’s new over here.

0:21:46.6 Jordan Syatt: So, what is it, like a Monday, Wednesday, Friday?

0:21:49.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. But yeah.

0:21:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Tuesday, Thursday, got it. The thing for me, in terms of analyzing your training and that… I feel like you just love training. I feel like this is not gonna be enough for you mentally, ’cause you like going to the gym, you like lifting. It’s not just the physical aspect of it.

0:22:08.6 Mike Vacanti: I am doing other things other than lifting, so it’s making space for at least 90 minutes of Zone 2, and neck day.

0:22:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Neck day, nice. The Iron Neck?

0:22:21.0 Mike Vacanti: My plan is to have one Iron Neck day. My plan is to train neck directly twice a week, but those are… I’m not taking pre-workout, I’m not upping my caffeine dosage for that day, so it’s… I’m eating like a rest day…

0:22:33.9 Jordan Syatt: Can you imagine taking a pre-workout for your neck days. [laughter]

0:22:39.9 Mike Vacanti: Neck day. High frequency neck day. That’d be awesome. No, caffeine management… Actually, let’s take this into sleep. So basically, that’s what I’m doing, and it’s been really fun for the last week and I’m gonna continue doing it for a while here. I also… Like you said, I like training more often, but the wear and tear stuff on my shoulder and elbow back in the fall in the ball, ’cause it’s just not worth trying to do that again and getting hurt and having a nagging injury and wanting to golf and not being able to. It’s just not worth it.

0:23:13.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Why do you wanna train your neck so much?

0:23:19.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s a great question. No one wants to be a pencil-neck, Jordan, it’s just not a good thing to be.

0:23:30.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you’re preaching.

0:23:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I think…

0:23:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you think you have a pencil neck?

0:23:32.7 Mike Vacanti: No, but I want the opposite of a pencil neck.

0:23:38.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you want there to be no mistake?

0:23:39.7 Mike Vacanti: Correct. I want people to think I’m injecting HGH into my neck. [laughter] There’s also an element of, I’ve had so many issues around it and thinking this backwards logic of like, “Okay, avoid things that hurt so I don’t get hurt.” When really it’s, “No, strengthen that thing so it doesn’t get hurt.” And I haven’t really had… I haven’t had real issues in recent times as much as I used to, but yeah. It’s also a… In the spirit of you like doing things, you like being active. I don’t wanna be doing that much cardio, I like this lifting frequency, it makes me look forward to lifts, and I wanna be doing something on those other days, even if it’s 15 minutes, and back in the day, that might have been direct ab training, but neck just feels right.

0:24:35.0 Jordan Syatt: What… So push-pull legs, is it body-building style? What’s your…

0:24:38.5 Mike Vacanti: Same as always, more of a longer rest, lower rep, kind of strength focused, and as the session goes on, reps go up, rest time comes down slightly. Not do anything crazy, not even like… You would think, “Oh, one day a week you’re doing some insane volume.” Not even doing insane volume, legs and abs, pyramiding up on a lot of stuff, not that not that many RPE 8-9 sets.

0:25:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, really?

0:25:06.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:25:07.9 Jordan Syatt: Just a couple?

0:25:08.1 Mike Vacanti: Just trying to feel good. I… Going off intuition, correct me if I’m wrong. My understanding of the current evidence-based movement is, people think that volume basically shouldn’t change or doesn’t need to change that much between muscle gain and fat loss phases. And I’ve always found that to be completely wrong. I physiologically can’t do that many hard sets in a reasonable pound to pound and a half a week deficit, as I can when I’m consuming 4000 calories a day and trying to make gains. So, I still wanna get more sets in ’cause it feels good, because I’m practicing the skill of the movement. And so that’s why I’m not doing a standard warm-up and then three really hard sets, but instead pyramiding up and maybe doing four sets or five sets, but mid-range… There’s warm up, and then there’s these kind of mid-range that fatigue you a little bit, but they’re not actually creating hypertrophy, and then there’s the top sets that are higher intensity and…

0:26:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:26:12.8 Mike Vacanti: A lot more volume on the back day, than the push day. Yeah, feel good, lose some fat, get dialed back in. Can’t be having moments like that at the beach.

0:26:22.5 Jordan Syatt: What are your macros at?

0:26:24.9 Mike Vacanti: Well, I set them, but then I was pretty hungry, and so I bumped them. [laughter]

0:26:31.5 Jordan Syatt: You set them based on what? Off your goal weight, or just what you thought you should be at to lose fat?

0:26:36.5 Mike Vacanti: I just know. What I should be at to lose fat, based on what I think I had been consuming, based on historically where I wanna be. And a little bit of… Set them more aggressive just for the first few days and then brought them back up. But rest days, 175p/175c/75f for 2075 cals. And then training day, I was 175p/275c/60f… Or sorry, I was 175p/250c/60f, and I bumped carbs to 275g.

0:27:05.5 Jordan Syatt: And that’s protein/carb/fat, just for people listening.

0:27:09.7 Mike Vacanti: They know, they know Jordan. That’s probably a good clarification.

0:27:14.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, nice. You were probably hungry on that rest day.

0:27:20.2 Mike Vacanti: Not really man. I’m sleeping nine and a half hours a night.

0:27:27.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh nice.

0:27:27.8 Mike Vacanti: For the last three weeks. Which is actually something else that I wanted to bring up since… Actually, we should talk about something that people care about rather than this. But, I’m afraid of dad sleep life.

0:27:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Why are you afraid?

0:27:45.1 Mike Vacanti: I just don’t think… I don’t know that I got it in me.

0:27:46.3 Jordan Syatt: Bro, you’ve got it in you. I know you do.

0:27:49.6 Mike Vacanti: I desperately hope that my test levels are low enough when I have a kid, that I start TRT on the day of birth. And this is just like… This isn’t happening right now or anything, but just… I’m a planner.

0:28:05.7 Jordan Syatt: No you’ve got it, you’ve got it. It’s just… You have it. It’s gonna be difficult, but, it’s also just… I was… People are always like, “Oh, it’s the best thing ever.” Yeah no, but it really is the best thing ever. And yeah, it’s difficult in many ways, but it’s just the best, so it’s like… Yeah. It’s not even gonna be an issue.

0:28:29.4 Mike Vacanti: I agree with all that, but I still don’t know how I’m gonna function on very minimal sleep for a solid period of time.

0:28:39.2 Jordan Syatt: You’re just gonna fucking do it because you don’t have another choice.

0:28:45.5 Mike Vacanti: Alright. Q and A time.

0:28:47.2 Jordan Syatt: You didn’t like that answer. Okay, Q and A time.

0:28:50.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, honestly, I felt like you thought that this is… We need to give the people something of value and just quit running all over the place with this.

0:29:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m great with the conversation we’re having.

0:29:01.6 Mike Vacanti: Good, me too.

0:29:03.3 Jordan Syatt: Do you want me to get my Q and A open?

0:29:04.9 Mike Vacanti: Let’s do it. Let’s do rapid fire today.

0:29:07.4 Jordan Syatt: Alright, @bfitamanda asked, “What tips do you have to make my 30-minute workouts the most efficient?” And this could be good for coaches who need to program 30-minute workouts for their clients for any number of reasons. So, what tips do you have Michael, for… To make 30-minute workouts the most efficient?

0:29:24.3 Mike Vacanti: And we’re just… We’re not gonna dig in on the client and be like, “Hey, why only 30 minutes?”

0:29:31.7 Jordan Syatt: No, we’re just gonna assume that they’re correct and they need 30-minute workouts.

0:29:35.9 Mike Vacanti: 30-minutes seven days a week, instead of 45, three days a week?

0:29:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Let’s say 30-minute workouts, three to four times a week. Or you know what, you got 30 minutes a day, seven days a week. You have 30 minutes everyday. I think that’s fair.

0:29:49.0 Mike Vacanti: If it’s seven days a week, I’m probably not gonna change much at all, we’re just gonna be splitting the volume across two workouts. Instead of an hour workout three days a week, we’re gonna split the volume across the workouts. If it was 30 minutes, three days a week, then relative to… Depending on the goal, but I would reduce rest time and try to get more volume into that session and end up having the client go a little bit lighter rather than doing like… A 30-minute workout, you’re gonna take five-minute rests and hit a barbel back squat. You end up doing three working sets, and that’s the workout. I’m gonna incorporate some super sets, I’m gonna have lower rest times, I’m going to try to get a decent amount in, without it being just 30 straight minutes of work with no rest. Obviously there’s a balance there. We don’t want this to be just a non-stop class, get sweaty, feel good as a result without having any rhyme or reason to it. But we’re also not gonna be programming just pure strength.

0:31:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So I think it’s important to say with something like this, somebody who’s doing 30-minute workouts several times a week, three to four times a week, their goal cannot be to be a champion in anything. Because then, if they wanted to be a champion, then they would be training more than that. That doesn’t mean they can’t get great results, but they’re not trying to be an elite athlete or a high level competitor, this is usually someone who just wants to be healthy. Which is great, ’cause you can definitely get healthy doing that. My personal favorite things to do with 30 minute workouts are things like density circuits. I love density circuits. So for example, in 30 minutes, you could… One density circuit, you can make it five minutes, you can make it eight minutes, you can make it 10 minutes, 15 minutes. But usually I like between the five to 10 minute range. So you set the clock for 10 minutes, and I’ll usually pick between two to four exercises. So let’s say it’s… Let’s say it’s an upper body day, maybe I’ll pick three exercises, so I’ll do push-ups, dumbbell rows, and a Russian twist, for core.

0:32:04.1 Jordan Syatt: So you set the clock for… We’ll do 10 minutes. You do five push-ups, five dumbbell rows per arm, and then eight Russian twists per side. And you repeat that as many times as you can within those 10 minutes. Now, how you explain this to the client is going to be dependent on what you want them to achieve. So early on, if it’s a brand new client, I’m probably not gonna… I definitely do not want them rushing through it going crazy. It’s like, “Listen, it’s 10 minutes, yeah. But let’s go nice and slow.” And in 10 minutes, maybe they’ll go through the whole thing five times, four times, five times. So it’s like four to five total sets, and it’s not done anywhere near failure, but you’re getting the technique down and you’re getting a lot of exposures. As someone gets more advanced, you can start really getting them to push the weight, like maybe doing weighted pushups, pause pushups, something like that. Super heavy dumbbell rows, and then really, really, really good Russian twists. But you can start to then track progress by, “Alright, are you gonna increase the weight? Are you gonna try and get more… ” Like if you got five rounds in last week, you’re gonna try and get six rounds in this week. You can progressively overload in that way.

0:33:16.3 Jordan Syatt: And then if you’ve got 30 minutes, you could do two, three or four, different types of density circuits. You could also do EMOMs, every minute on the minute. So let’s say you did two density circuits for eight minutes each, that’s 60 minutes total, you have two minutes rest in between the density circuit, so that’s like 18 minutes. Then you do an EMOM for the last 10 minutes, so every minute on the minute, you do like a kettlebell… Like five kettlebell swings and whatever the fuck you wanna put in there. But you could do five kettlebell swings, and five med ball slams for the last 10 minutes. Great, now you got some conditioning at the end. So here, it’s a great opportunity to get a fair amount of volume in with high quality work, in a very short period of time. Like you said, I don’t like… It’s a 30-minute workout, I’m not doing barbell stuff. Or not single sets, I’m not just gonna do squats or deadlifts. If I’m gonna do barbell stuff, cool, maybe I’ll have barbell dead lifts as part of a density circuit, and after barbell deadlifts, then I’ll go right into… Who knows, a goblet squat or something like that. But you have the ability to get more volume in, in less time. And those workouts are brutal by the way, they suck in terms of how difficult they are, but it’s a very good way to make 30 minutes more efficient.

0:34:28.1 Mike Vacanti: Great tips. I love that. Jordan’s always hitting that transverse plane, he’s very aware of…

0:34:36.0 Jordan Syatt: You got to.

0:34:36.2 Mike Vacanti: And obviously, there might be a situation that someone comes to you and they’re like, “I can do 30-minute workouts seven days a week, and by the way, my number one goal is, increase my dead lift strength.” It’s like, okay, they might not be doing seven density workouts a week. That person might end up having a day where it’s like, “Okay, today we’re focusing on your deadlift. We’re gonna do some speed work, we’re gonna do… ” Whatever.

0:34:55.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, remember that segment you and did where “I can’t prove this but…”

0:35:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, no one understood it. Everyone hated it. Let’s go.

0:35:04.2 Jordan Syatt: We’re gonna do it again.

0:35:05.9 Mike Vacanti: I love it.

0:35:06.0 Jordan Syatt: I can’t prove this, but I strongly believe that training through the transverse plane, and just through the different movement patterns… But training through the transverse plane and doing more rotational work, is one of the best things you can do for your spinal health and for core health, and for keeping your back safe and healthy and pain-free. I see so many people who got back pain who are just stiff, and they never move. And because they’re stiff, they don’t move out of that range of motion, so they get more stiff, and they get more stiff, and they get more stiff. I think one of the… And this is a huge issue I see in the fitness industry now, because right now, hypertrophy training has made a big comeback, getting huge.

0:35:51.7 Jordan Syatt: And this time around it’s different ’cause it’s not just dudes who wanna get huge, now women really wanna build big muscle as well, which is great. But we’ve… We’re seeing a huge resurgence in hypertrophy training, which is very cool, but now hypertrophy training has gone to the extreme of like, “We need… ” Essentially they’re saying volume doesn’t matter, or almost that volume doesn’t matter, that it’s only intensity that matters the most by far. And you only need one to two sets of three to four exercises, and that’s it. As long as you go as hard as you possibly can at those exercises. And I think there’s a difference between what is effective and what is optimal.

0:36:31.5 Jordan Syatt: And what I’m seeing is a lot of people just going unbelievably hard to failure, or like one RIR, one rep in reserve, on these big compound movements that are all on the sagittal plane, all straight up and down, but no one’s moving side to side, no one’s moving in the transverse plane, doing rotational work. And I see these people moving like shit and they’re super stiff, and they have a lot of pain. And it’s like, “Well yeah, ’cause you’re not moving your body.” It’s one thing to train a muscle through a range of motion, it’s another thing to move your body as a unit. And I think if you’re training your clients, it’s one thing if you’re training someone to be a high-level body builder. Yeah, give them what they need in order to compete at high level. But if you’re training everyday people with this outrageously high intensity protocol with minimal movement in other planes of motion, I think you’re making a big mistake.

0:37:26.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s also not that… You’re not giving away that much hypertrophy progress to program in some movement in other planes. Especially for someone who’s not an elite level body builder, any beginner, or intermediate lifter can make awesome muscle gain progress while also having a program that incorporates exercise selection that leads to excise selection and mobility between sets, if you wanna program something like that. That leads to your client feeling really, really good, while also building strength and muscle. Boom, win-win.

0:38:00.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:38:01.3 Mike Vacanti: How much progress are you really leaving on the table? Not an amount that matters, especially for a natty intermediate trying to build muscle, which is like pissing into the wind anyway. That might not be… Walking uphill, whatever the proper… Sometimes it feels like pissing into the wind.

0:38:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Pissing in the wind. [laughter]

0:38:22.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s for sure. It’s… I understand, I think I know a handful of names that are leading the charge of volume doesn’t really matter, intensity is everything. But that’s still a… Only a group, and maybe it’s a bigger group than it was before, but there’s still a lot of very smart people and researchers who believe that slightly less intense sets, not going all the way to failure, but leaving a couple reps in reserve and paying attention to volume and programming specific amounts of volume, and potentially having more training volume, does lead to better muscle growth. And Israetel and RP is the one that comes to mind for me because that was… I’m not dialed in following the day-to-day changes, but unless his general philosophies around muscle gain have changed recently, I don’t think he’s in that camp.

0:39:23.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:39:26.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m kinda asking, is that right, or you don’t know? Basically, you’re saying the intensity over volume crowd is growing?

0:39:32.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I just try not to name people ’cause I don’t wanna piss anyone off and all that stuff. But yeah, generally there is… As far as I know, Israetel is still outside of that camp. And… But to be fair, I do think the research is pretty clear that mechanical tension and higher intensity is the driving factor for muscle growth. But going back to what you originally said, I think that adding in extra movements that are lower intensity to train in different planes of motion purely for movement quality, doesn’t take away from effective hypertrophy training, you could do both, you could add it into your day, you could add it into your workout, you could add it into times when you’re not actively working out. I just think we see a huge issue with, only training a single modality. And maybe this is a huge part of my bias growing up, and whether it was training with Louie Simmons, or training with Eric Cressey or whatever it is. I’ve never thought it was a smart idea to train a single modality at the expense of all others. We’re only doing hypertrophy, we’re only doing mobility, we’re only doing strength, it’s like… That’s never made sense to me. And I think it’s probably largely because of my background with conjugated periodization and understanding that you can and should train all quality simultaneously, with maybe some focuses that you really want to develop.

0:41:06.1 Jordan Syatt: But, the idea that you should only… Block periodization has never made sense to me, when you could just use conjugated periodization. It just… It doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t make sense to me that you’re only gonna train one quality at the expense of others. And I see people doing this with hypertrophy training right now, it’s like, “We’re only gonna train hypertrophy. Which means we’re only gonna go super high intensity, we’re gonna use minimal volume, we’re just gonna go as hard as you can with these movements.” And it’s like, I just don’t see how that makes sense, unless you are competing at an unbelievably high level and your income is based off of your results in this one thing. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense to me, especially for coaches training clients. Speaking to the crowd who’s listening to this, this is one of the most important lessons I ever learned as a coach, your goals are not your clients goals. What you want to achieve is not necessarily what your client wants to achieve, and oftentimes, your clients might not even know how to fully articulate what it is they want or need. And you as the coach have to know that. They might see you doing hypertrophy training and say, “Oh, I wanna do that.”

0:42:17.7 Jordan Syatt: But they don’t know that… They don’t know how to articulate, “Well, I also wanna move better, I also wanna feel better.” They might not even know to say something like that, they’re just going to assume that that’s gonna be part of the program, and it should be part of the program. Unless you’re getting someone who’s coming to you being like, “Hey, I want to be Mr. Or Mrs. Olympia.” In which case, you have to ask, are you actually qualified to coach that person. But everyone should be having real movement quality as a part of their programming, especially for everyday people.

0:42:47.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it’s the same as the person who lists muscle gain and improved health as their number one and two goals and then says they don’t care at all about fat loss. And then you read further and they’re like, “I just really wanna see my abs.” And you’re like, “Okay. Which is it?” Yeah. Will there ever… We can move on, this was a good rapid-fire on 30-minute workouts. Good job Mike and Jordan, good rapid fire. Great discussion though, I’m super into it. Will there be a time where you are naming people even if it pisses them off? Or is that just not a life strategy?

0:43:20.9 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think it’s a good life strategy. I don’t like calling people out, I don’t like… It doesn’t make me feel good. It seems like a cheap shot. And, I also…

0:43:32.1 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t think you were insulting though, I just was generally curious of… But I understand.

0:43:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Here’s what I think. I have a feeling that the vast majority of people, if they got in a room together, they would actually somewhat enjoy each other and they would like them, and they would probably agree on more than they disagree. And I see a lot of drama starting on social media where someone says one thing that they don’t like, and then they make a whole entire post calling that person out and saying this, and it’s just like… I don’t know what’s going on in that person’s life, maybe their mom is sick, maybe they’re just going through something terrible. And then I made an entire video about that one person and called them out, it’s like, fuck man.

0:44:15.6 Mike Vacanti: I see.

0:44:17.6 Jordan Syatt: And then, I don’t… That’s where I’m like, “I don’t know what they’re going through, they’re probably a great person. Obviously, I disagree with this one statement. How about I just take this statement and discuss this as opposed to saying, “Hey, this person is a fucking idiot.” You know what I mean?

0:44:31.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, strawmaned me a little there, but I understand.

0:44:34.2 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, no, no. And I know… I’m not saying that’s what you said, but I see a lot of people on social media doing that, and that’s where I’m saying, it’s pushed me further away from that style of content because you just never know.

0:44:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, call out stuff I understand. I’m just not socially competent enough to know that in that specific conversation, naming them would have upset the person, but now I know.

0:45:01.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But the other day when someone was doing all that Holocaust stuff when I was bringing up the Holocaust in my comment section, and then I was… I’ll share your name, I don’t care. ‘Cause at that… I was talking about how I had family in the Holocaust and all this stuff, and then this person goes like, “This clown as justified as saying that he can talk about it ’cause he had family in the Holocaust, that doesn’t fucking matter.” I’m like, “Alright, now I’m sharing your name. Now I’m sharing your name. Alright, you just went to a whole new level, you poked the fucking bear.” So, yeah.

0:45:35.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jordan, what… Real quick, have you ever worn one of those hats that have the really tiny brims?

0:45:46.9 Jordan Syatt: Like the old man hats?

0:45:50.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:45:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I used to wear one in college.

0:45:51.9 Mike Vacanti: I was just gonna say, I think you’d look good in that.

0:45:52.5 Jordan Syatt: Thank you man. Yeah, I used to wear one in college because when I interned with Louie Simmons, Louie would always wear one of those hats, and then I wanted to be like Louie, so I got one of those hats.

0:46:02.9 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.

0:46:04.0 Jordan Syatt: And then… Yeah. And people in college… I got made fun of a lot in college, a lot. ‘Cause I was this nerdy kid who had my website, who was head of the powerlifting team. But I was just so dialed with my training and with wanting to write articles and all this stuff, and I would never go to parties, I wouldn’t go to frat parties, I wouldn’t do any of that stuff. And people would be like, “What are you doing? You’re in on a Friday night, just like… ” And a lot of people were… Didn’t understand. “And you’re wearing that small little old man hat.” Just bringing my laptop into Brew Haha! on Main Street in Newark, Delaware just… It was… I got a lot of shit in college for stuff like that. But…

0:46:47.1 Mike Vacanti: Good, gasoline, they’re pouring gasoline on the fire of the Syatt Fitness come up.

0:46:54.6 Jordan Syatt: @acefit0 said, “Do you still track your calories everyday while in maintenance?”

0:46:57.7 Mike Vacanti: @acefit0, no, I sure have not tracking my calories while in maintenance/accidental slight surplus, not the good muscle gain kind, but the other kind of surplus. Realistically at this point in my career, and… Are we answering for ourselves or are we giving advice?

0:47:21.3 Jordan Syatt: Both.

0:47:24.3 Mike Vacanti: I probably track somewhere between three and six months out of the year, and that’s probably on the high side…

0:47:35.6 Jordan Syatt: I was gonna say, wow.

0:47:38.6 Mike Vacanti: If I’m being super honest. Or honest with myself. We’ve talked about it many times, and we talk about it a lot, when we talk about, “Is intuitive eating good?” And the truth is, you need to understand the calorie content in various foods and the… Ideally, protein carbon fat content of various foods to have an understanding of what it is you’re eating, portion sizes, serving sizes, weighing food for a period of time so you actually know what you’re putting in your body, before you can go extended periods of time, not tracking and successfully maintain progress. And I spent a lot of time tracking in the 2008 to 2016 time frame. Not 100% of that, but a lot of it. And by the way, you don’t need to track for eight years to understand, something like 30 days is a great starting point. But I got to the point where I’m really good at guesstimating, I eat a lot of the same foods very often, and so I would say three months out of the year, I’m tracking everything I eat in the day, and the rest of the time I’m not.

0:48:55.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I think that’s the most underrated fitness… Nutrition advice, is eating the same foods on a regular basis. My breakfast and lunch is the same thing everyday.

0:49:06.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:49:07.2 Jordan Syatt: The only variable is dinner, and that’s based on what my wife is… Would like to make. And it’s… And she’s so good with… There’s always protein, there’s always vegetables, and then some type of carbon fat as well. It’s like, breakfast and lunch is always the same.

0:49:26.5 Mike Vacanti: Period.

0:49:26.8 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s one of the easiest ways to lose and maintain that weight loss.

0:49:30.7 Mike Vacanti: What if someone says, “But I get bored and I don’t like that.”

0:49:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Alright, then pick… You have two options. There are a… Here are a couple options. Number one is, cycle through three to five meals that you know what the calorie ranges are. So, make three to five meals that you enjoy and cycle through those any time that you want, but make them be within the calorie range that you need them to be. That’s one option. The other option is, don’t do any of that, and then you enjoy the meals, but not be happy with the fitness progress. That’s it. Those are the main options.

0:50:07.5 Mike Vacanti: Or say, yeah sometimes life is boring, and you can go explore and have adventures in other areas of your life, but here, buckle down and let’s make some progress. And then when you are in maintenance, then you can be eating… Then you have more wiggle room than when you’re trying to lose body fat, or when you’re pursuing a specific goal. You can also… I’m not good enough to do this or skilled enough as a chef, but you can obtain variety through eating the same foods, but preparing them differently, or doing different things with the same ingredients to introduce some variety, if that’s something you can do. But yeah, I completely agree. Eating the same handful of foods pretty frequently, and in regular intervals, like having consistent meal timing throughout the day, helps massively with being in range on calories and protein and fiber and whatever you care about, without having to track it every single day.

0:51:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, makes it so much easier.

0:51:09.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And again, if your goal right now is to lose body fat, this isn’t really for… Maybe a subset of people. But most people when losing fat, tracking is the way to go. But through that tracking, you’re gonna get to a place where you don’t necessarily have to.

0:51:29.6 Jordan Syatt: @snaps22209 asked, “How do you deal with friend fallouts because you have grown apart?”

0:51:35.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think I have a lot of wisdom here.

0:51:39.6 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:51:40.2 Mike Vacanti: But I’ll do my darndest. I think it’s a natural part of life, I think it probably… Depends on who you are. I think it can be hurtful for some people if they feel like it isn’t their choice and the other person… If they’re growing apart, and maybe the other person doesn’t want to interact as much. I don’t really know it’s… Honestly, it’s not really something that has bothered me, it’s something that I see as a natural part of life. I don’t even see it as fallout, I just see it as frequency of communication or depth of the relationship. And sometimes… Usually this happens when goals change, values change, priorities change, and it’s okay. And very rarely do you need to intentionally cut someone off. I think I used to think like, “Oh yeah, I’m on a mission, I’m cutting off anyone who’s in my way. I’m trying to grow this business, let’s go… ” That kind of mindset, which I’m quite the opposite nowadays. But it’s still… Someone who has an opposite world view that I have, or opposite values, or if I’m trying to be a really good man and husband and their thing is like, they try and do an affair a week or something, I’m probably not gonna…

0:53:11.9 Jordan Syatt: An affair a week?

0:53:13.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know, I’m just throwing out a goal that someone… Kind of the opposite goal that I’m thinking of. Maybe there aren’t people who are doing that, but…

0:53:22.0 Jordan Syatt: There definitely are, I’m sure.

0:53:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Exactly. So if that person and I were grade school friends and we’d kinda stayed in touch and he really wanted to come over for tea every afternoon, I’d probably be like, “I don’t think so, man.” And that’s okay, because you’re both doing your own thing. It was an example of someone who’s value had shifted in a different direction.

0:53:46.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude, this whole scenario is just so good. Like, “Yeah, this person who wants to have an affair a week is coming over for tea.” [laughter] Where did you come up with this situation? “Would you like English breakfast tea?” [laughter]

0:54:14.9 Mike Vacanti: I… Yeah. I think rather than thinking of a fallout as, “We’re not friends anymore, it’s a break up.” It’s more like, “We don’t communicate as often as we used to, and that’s okay. We’re both living our lives, and that’s natural, and that happens.” And I don’t… I distinctly remember, I don’t remember who he was talking to, but on talking to Mike Matthews… Or he was talking about it many, many years ago, and the conversation was whether or not you have to have an explicit conversation or whether things just kind of gradually drift. And at least in my life, when things have gradually drifted, it’s normal and natural and fine.

0:54:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I have some friends from high school and all that, that… We were friends for a super long time, and they’re amazing people, but it’s like… They live in Chicago now and I’m in Texas, and… Just different.

0:55:15.6 Mike Vacanti: And even those, you don’t see them or talk to them as often as… ‘Cause when I think of high school friends, and especially when I was in New York. When I’m back for the holidays, I’ll see them once, and we’ll kind of pick up where we left off, and it’s fun and it’s a few hours and we’re all together. But, that’s it, and that’s all it needs to be, and there’s not an expectation. I actually think male-to-male friendships are a lot easier and more straightforward from everything I’ve seen than female-to-female friendships. Most of my longest friendships are very low-maintenance, and very easy. And if it’s not, then you kind of drift apart for that reason too. Yeah, but I don’t think that you need to be like, “I’m cutting people out of my life… “

0:56:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Have a conversation.

0:56:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, it’s…

0:56:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:56:08.1 Mike Vacanti: Wednesday, February 8th, the Online Fitness Business Mentorship is on sale. We do two sales a year, this is one of them, it’s $300 off. If you’re interested in joining, if you’re a coach, if you wanna grow your online business, if you want to… If you haven’t been seeing the results you want in your online business, if you wanna become a better coach, which is what we spend a lot of time on. We actually had a Q and A yesterday and had a lot of… Really good program-specific questions, which was fun. Sign up, it won’t be on sale long, February 8th, we’ll talk about it on the podcast, but definitely get on the email list, which is linked in the show notes, and that’s it.

0:56:48.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And it’s $300 off the normal price, gonna say that again. We encourage you to do some price shopping around some other gurus and masterminds to see what they offer and how much they’re charging. You might be very surprised at how low our price point is relative to the industry standard. So, we would love to have you, we would love to have you in the mentorship. To everyone who’s already in the mentorship, we love you, we appreciate you crushing it. And February 8th is the first day that this sale goes live, so if you want to be notified on that day so you don’t forget, get on the email list, the link is in the show notes, and that’s it. I gotta go get my daughter her passport.

0:57:32.9 Mike Vacanti: See you soon.