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In this episode we talk about which books are the best books for personal trainers (for both training and nutrition). We also discuss food pushers, rotational core training, and more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:00.0 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on? Welcome back to the podcast. Really quick before we dive in, the Online Fitness Business Mentorship sale is live right now, link in the show notes, if you wanna join the Online Fitness Business Mentorship for $300 off. I’m gonna say that one more time, $300 off. Now is the time. We only do this twice per year.


0:00:19.0 Jordan Syatt: And one time we will reduce it, we’ll do it like a discount, and the next time we’re gonna say, “Hey, we’re gonna increase the price,” right? So the price will increase. This is gonna be the lowest that you will ever be able to get in the mentorship for. The lowest ever. So if you want to join, now is the time. If you wanna grow your business, you wanna reach more people, grow your social media, impact more people, and build your business, this is the time. Link in the show notes. Let’s get into the episode.




0:00:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:58.5 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael?


0:00:58.5 Mike Vacanti: I can’t prove this, but I’m convinced that rotational core work has a direct correlation with quality of bowel movements. What do you think?


0:01:15.7 Jordan Syatt: I know that you’re very in touch with your bowels.


0:01:21.9 Mike Vacanti: Uh-uh. Maybe in 2020. But since you started your fiber, you are the king of bowel movements.


0:01:26.5 Jordan Syatt: I’m definitely not the king, and you’ve definitely researched different types of bowel movements more than I have.


0:01:33.1 Mike Vacanti: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That was for a client, alright?




0:01:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Still researched a lot. And I know you’ve always done this thing where like, you press on your stomach and like try and push it down, and like you notice a big difference with it.


0:01:49.2 Mike Vacanti: Never happened. Never happened.


0:01:50.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s 100% false. It absolutely happened.


0:01:53.7 Mike Vacanti: Maybe in late 2016, one time, but no.


0:01:57.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh my god, what is going on? You would always be pressing around and pushing it down and stuff.


0:02:02.6 Mike Vacanti: Let’s not take the Lord’s name in vain here, okay?


0:02:05.1 Jordan Syatt: Alright, brother. Alright, alright.




0:02:10.1 Mike Vacanti: You don’t think it… You don’t know a difference? I know you noticed a huge difference when you started the fiber.


0:02:15.6 Jordan Syatt: I’ve never paid attention to rotational movements impacting… I mean I’ve always included rotational movements, and so maybe it’s just that’s also been just… That’s always been there.


0:02:30.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s all you know. It’s all you know.


0:02:32.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ve never not included rotational movements in my training, you know what I mean?


0:02:33.4 Mike Vacanti: I see.


0:02:36.0 Jordan Syatt: But the fiber… Nothing’s like the fiber. I’ll tell you that right now. In terms of not only frequency but quality, and just like the ease of the whole situation.


0:02:48.3 Mike Vacanti: And for anyone who thinks like, “Why are these two idiots like talking about poop? Like what relevance does this have?” there are actually some direct correlations between the quality and frequency of your bowel movements and health.


0:03:01.8 Jordan Syatt: 100%


0:03:02.4 Mike Vacanti: So digestive health and other types of health that we’re not gonna dive too deep into right now, but it is relevant. Alright, let’s springboard off. Let’s take an aggressive cut on the subject change. I’m 35 years old; I turn 36 in April. I have never felt old until, I don’t know, sometime in the last year or two, but I had a moment, I think it was yesterday. First, I saw another person with their pants tucked into these high socks and these weird oversize shoes…


0:03:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Were they young?


0:03:40.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, like a 20-year-old at the gym, and I was like, “Man, this is like a style.” And normally, I feel like the new style, like I’m somewhat in touch with it, I understand it, I’m like, I might even adopt it at some point, but this just feels like so foreign to me. And that combined with… And then at Chipotle, there was a Gen Z worker there who I was like…


0:04:05.2 Mike Vacanti: She just deadpan face. She might have been having a bad day, who knows, but had a lot of tattoos and piercings and young person stuff, and I was like, “How is it going?” She just looked at me like this. And then I ordered and she just looked at me like this. I was like, I don’t know, I feel old.


0:04:24.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you’re preaching. Yeah. I had that within the last year from jiu-jitsu, and I always remember watching… I remember watching athletes and being like, “Oh man, they’re older,” they’re older professional athletes, college athletes. Now I’m looking at these games, and I’m older than almost all of these athletes.


0:04:46.7 Jordan Syatt: And it was funny ’cause in jiu-jitsu, I was talking to my coach, I was like, “I just don’t get how this kid and that kid, and this kid and that kid they’re just beating me?” And my coach goes, “They’re kids.” He’s like, “You’re 31.” I was like, “And in my mind, I’m like yeah, that’s young.” He’s like, “It’s young in life, but like in sports, you’re old.”


0:05:06.4 Jordan Syatt: He’s like, “These 20, 22, 24-year-old kids, like they’re savages and they make… ” That’s why the Master’s division starts at 30 in jiu-jitsu. But I’ve never… I never thought I would get to a point where I used age as a justification for not being a certain level of competent in sports, and now that’s like, “Oh, well yeah, he’s 22. Yeah, yeah, he’s 24. Oh, yeah, yeah, young kid,” da, da, da. It’s like, man, I’m actually using that as a justification in my sports. Now, it’s a weird feeling to feel old.


0:05:41.6 Mike Vacanti: Have you noticed it anywhere else?


0:05:44.9 Jordan Syatt: My nose.


0:05:45.4 Mike Vacanti: Your nose?




0:05:48.9 Jordan Syatt: So you know how your nose and your ears never stop growing?


0:05:53.3 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh.


0:05:53.8 Jordan Syatt: And you know how when you look at some old dudes, like some old dudes, their noses are huge, and you’re like, “Were they born like that or?” No, it just continues to grow their whole life. Dude, my nose, it’s like really getting… It’s like getting to be like, you know, that cliche like, “Oh, the Jewish nose.” Like, dude, I’m getting that Jewish nose, that old man. And I’m seeing it. It’s now extending further down my mustache line. Like you see this, how it’s here, and it dips down a little bit? See how yours doesn’t do that?


0:06:25.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay, yeah.


0:06:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m gonna have a huge nose. If I make it to like 80, 90, it’s gonna be huge.


0:06:34.6 Mike Vacanti: Distinct.


0:06:34.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I see it. I see it there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, huge.


0:06:35.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s gonna be distinct.




0:06:37.2 Mike Vacanti: The only reason I knew of that was… Maybe I knew of it before then, but I remember you linking me to something a couple of months back where there was like a lot of anti-Semitism and someone… It was an Instagram post, and you commented something, and then people were commenting underneath like, nose jokes, basically.


0:06:57.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, nose and little hat jokes. [chuckle]


0:07:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.




0:07:00.6 Mike Vacanti: The little hats rule the world.


0:07:03.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Where else have you noticed it?


0:07:07.0 Mike Vacanti: Age?


0:07:07.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:07:09.0 Mike Vacanti: My nose.




0:07:12.1 Mike Vacanti: Hey, real quick first, you don’t think that isn’t… Are you sure that’s happening? Or do you think it has to do with the angle of your camera?


0:07:18.3 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s 100% happening. And the fact that you even think it’s potentially a camera angle thing just lets me know it’s like, it’s definitely happening. “Oh, I thought it was the angle of your camera that makes your nose look so big.” [chuckle]


0:07:31.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s not… I didn’t think your nose looked big. You brought it up. I thought angle of camera because I’ve been thinking about changing the angle of my camera because there’s some research about looking down gives like your eyelids more weight, which actually makes you look more tired compared to looking slightly up, which forces your eyelids open. I don’t know the research. But I know that looking up supposedly gives you more alertness, and I’m looking down at a laptop. I’m thinking maybe… We’re on Episode 108. Maybe it’s time to really overhaul this podcast setup, who knows?


0:08:06.0 Jordan Syatt: If you’re not watching the video pods, you’re missing out. ‘Cause we’re getting… You can see my nose, you can see Mike’s nose, you can…


0:08:11.6 Mike Vacanti: Instagram, YouTube, Spotify. Anywhere video pods are available, @personaltrainerpodcast. Yes.


0:08:19.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and these full episodes go on YouTube. Full episodes. Courtesy of our amazing…


0:08:26.0 Mike Vacanti: David.


0:08:28.4 Jordan Syatt: Our podcast producer.


0:08:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Extraordinaire. Yeah, producer, engineer, wizard.


0:08:36.0 Jordan Syatt: The clips he has been putting on YouTube have been fire. He’s been crushing those.


0:08:40.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, thumbnails too.


0:08:41.1 Jordan Syatt: The other places… The other places you’ve noticed this?


0:08:46.9 Mike Vacanti: Like vocabulary.


0:08:47.3 Jordan Syatt: In terms of like…


0:08:49.1 Mike Vacanti: “Bussin” “for real for real”. I don’t know, all these words that I just like “cap”.


0:08:54.8 Jordan Syatt: “Based” “based”.


0:08:57.6 Mike Vacanti: Is “based” a young thing?


0:09:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Do you use “based”?


0:09:00.3 Mike Vacanti: I might start.


0:09:03.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s… I remember… ‘Cause there’s all these young kids at jiu-jitsu are using all these words that you just said, like “cap” “based”. All that stuff. I don’t even know them. And it was funny ’cause these young kids were making fun of me, they were like, “Oh, you don’t even know.” And I felt so old, they were using all these words and talking in sentences that I don’t understand. It’s crazy.


0:09:24.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and they’re trying to educate me on how to… And I told them, one of them is struggling to get a job, and I said, and like with these interviews, I was like, “Are you talking like this in your interviews?” And he’s like… And he said, “Bet.” And I said, “That is completely and utterly inappropriate to use in an interview.” [chuckle] I was like, “If you interviewed for a job with me and you said bet, even if you were the perfect person for the job, I would not hire you.”


0:09:52.7 Mike Vacanti: Abel was the first person I remember saying “bet”.


0:09:54.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I remember Abel saying that years ago.


0:09:57.6 Mike Vacanti: He might have started it, actually.


0:09:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, he might have.


0:10:01.6 Mike Vacanti: He’s the man.


0:10:01.7 Jordan Syatt: I remember we had conversations for months about how to use it properly ’cause I didn’t understand it.


0:10:06.9 Mike Vacanti: You and Abel did?


0:10:07.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Abel, Rico and I. We all had conversations about how do you use “bet”. And it took me three months to get to start to understand it.


0:10:15.6 Mike Vacanti: You make an interesting point, should the person not be saying those words in the interview? Are we just behind the times and things are moving and we need to adapt? And that’s what’s always happened, like radio to the television, television to… Are we just being grumpy old men? Or is there actually some level of objective professionalism that needs to be brought to the English language?


0:10:44.7 Jordan Syatt: I almost think it’s neither of those, and here’s what I think. I think it’s about brand. And my brand is, it can be funny and I can swear and I can be unprofessional, but it’s always educated, right? It’s always like, “Hey, I wanna have an educated discussion,” and I can say “fuck you” and I can wear a wig and all of that stuff, but it’s always coming from a place of education. I feel like being “based” and “no cap” and all that stuff, it’s like, that’s just not educated.


0:11:15.1 Mike Vacanti: You might… I think you’re being old man when you’re saying that those words aren’t…


0:11:18.1 Jordan Syatt: You think so?


0:11:19.1 Mike Vacanti: I think maybe. I don’t know. Because I’m like you, I’m in the same boat as you. But I feel like looking down on people who talk like that or saying that talking like that is less educated, I don’t know. Like what if someone conveyed a lot of the same points as you, but used all those words?


0:11:35.5 Jordan Syatt: But if I can’t understand them, then they didn’t convey it properly.


0:11:41.0 Mike Vacanti: But 12 to 21-year-olds understand them perfectly.


0:11:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Then they should start their own fitness brand and not interview with me.




0:11:45.4 Jordan Syatt: Then they can use it all they want and it’ll be great.


0:11:48.5 Mike Vacanti: True.


0:11:49.4 Jordan Syatt: But it’s not going into my brand. ‘Cause it’s not me, you know?


0:11:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Sure. Sure.


0:11:52.1 Jordan Syatt: And I don’t want them answering customer service emails being like, “Ah, bet. Your payment didn’t go through? No cap. Got you covered.” No, I don’t want that. That’s for my brand. If they have it in their brand, it could definitely work. But for my brand, absolutely not.


0:12:08.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think you’d say “no cap” if someone’s payment didn’t go through.


0:12:09.6 Jordan Syatt: What does “no cap” mean? I don’t know.


0:12:11.6 Mike Vacanti: “Cap” means lying, so “no cap” means telling the truth.


0:12:14.9 Jordan Syatt: “Cap” is lying?


0:12:16.8 Mike Vacanti: I think.


0:12:18.4 Jordan Syatt: I thought “cap” was like, “Oh, that’s the limit.” “No cap” is like “no limit”.


0:12:24.3 Mike Vacanti: No, no. [chuckle]


0:12:25.8 Jordan Syatt: Are you sure?


0:12:25.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m way more sure than you are. That’s for sure.




0:12:27.0 Jordan Syatt: When people say “no cap” I always thought, “Oh yeah. There’s no limit.”


0:12:32.1 Mike Vacanti: Truth. Truth.


0:12:34.0 Jordan Syatt: No. [chuckle] “No cap” is “truth”?


0:12:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, yeah, I’m quite certain.


0:12:39.1 Jordan Syatt: Could you say “cap” if they’re lying? Like, “Oh, hey, you’re lying.”


0:12:41.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s “cap”.


0:12:42.1 Jordan Syatt: “That’s cap.” You’re lying?


0:12:43.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:12:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Really, that’s what that means?


0:12:45.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:12:46.7 Jordan Syatt: Wow, that is unbelievable.


0:12:51.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m reading a book, I’m listening to a book, an audiobook, it’s called Stolen Focus, why your attention is so bad and what to do about it, something along those lines. Author’s named Johann Hari, I think. But his thesis I really agreed with in the beginning, which is like, consuming on social media is hurting our attention and our focus. And I assume the book was, “Here’s what we can do about it,” but in reality the book is, I’m two-thirds of the way through and it’s more like, “There’s not really much we can do about it. We can maybe do a little bit on a personal level, but this is a systemic issue.” And like he proposes a lot of ideas like government should regulate social media and things that I don’t agree with.


0:13:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Ugh, the government? You don’t want the government on it. That’s a bad idea.


0:13:44.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. He seems like big on regulation. Basically, the point I’m making is, a lot of the examples in the book that he uses and a lot of like… The book starts out pretty objective, and his ideology seems to seep in more and more as you get deeper and deeper. Which I think is, I think a lot of it is still good, but it made me realize like both sides… When both sides are saying something, meaning when one person’s like… And we’re not gonna go into politics, I can’t believe I’m bringing this up, it’s gonna be real quick, when one side is like, “Facebook is right-wing, and they got Trump elected and the Russians and da, da, da,” and then the other side…


0:14:25.4 Jordan Syatt: People say Facebook is right-wing?


0:14:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, in the book, he does. But then other people…


0:14:31.2 Jordan Syatt: He’s out of his mind. [chuckle]


0:14:32.2 Mike Vacanti: Okay, but that’s my point. And then there’s other people who are like, “No, all the big tech companies are left-wing and like da, da, da, da.” But when the arguments are coming from both sides, it’s like it makes me want to discredit or ignore the initial hypothesis of like, “This thing is running our lives,” and makes me wanna go more into like, “No. Times are always changing. Technologies are always changing.” Almost more of like a Gary approach to it like, “This is what it is. I’m going to use it for my benefit and for what I want to do. I’m not gonna stop it. We’re not gonna change it. What good is complaining about it gonna do?” But it’s an interesting… It’s something I was thinking about a good amount, then I stumbled across the book, I was like, “Oh, this could be interesting.” And it is, but it made me realize I don’t think this is the devil. And if you need to consume less, consume less, but you can just use the technology that exists for your goals and your life and your ambitions and whatever you wanna do.


0:15:30.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s definitely not the devil, for sure. It is, like there are… It’s how you use it. It’s how you use it that can make it or break it. No matter what, times are always changing. No matter what. And evolution, we’re always gonna adapt and all of that. I think there’s definitely something to be said for… I’m trying to think of an analogy. I don’t know if this is gonna be a good one, but we’ll sort of roll with it just to see how it goes. This might be really stupid. But there are animals all over the world, animals ever, right? And if you take an animal from one place in the world and bring it to another place in the world where that’s not its natural habitat, that can become an invasive species, right?


0:16:17.6 Jordan Syatt: And that invasive species can wreak havoc on the ecosystem, on the animals there. And we see this all over. We see this like with, invasive species comes in, and then it will eat all of the food sources and supplies than other animals that are natural to there and maybe can’t be… They’re not. They can’t kill that animal. They’re not its natural predator or whatever. They essentially can eliminate other animals who are natural to that area.


0:16:41.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s not saying that that invasive species is inherently bad. It’s like just it shouldn’t be there and in that quantity. And when you put it in a place in which it’s not supposed to be, then it can really cause damage. And I think that’s where social media can sort of tie in with that. It’s like we’re definitely… Social media, I feel like is an invasive species in some sense, in which it’s like there are so many different platforms, and each platform is changing so drastically, and it’s finding what is so addictive to it, and people are over-consuming it, and it’s become an invasive species in our mind, where it’s like we use it all the time, non-stop.


0:17:18.6 Jordan Syatt: Even myself, dude. If I go to the bathroom, dude, I can’t take a piss without taking my phone out and looking at social media for seven seconds, and I noticed that. So I’m like, “I’m gonna leave my phone on the couch,” and I try and do that, sometimes I don’t. It’s like, I think that’s a problem. But it’s about how you use it and how it’s impacting your life.


0:17:36.8 Mike Vacanti: And he argues that the designers of these apps, and gives lots of stories and interviews a lot of people, are so good at making the platform so addictive that people who preach personal responsibility are giving people false hope, essentially. He’s basically saying like, it’s not your fault that you can’t set the phone down. You have to take it when you go take a piss because this thing is so addictive and getting more addictive that it’s their fault, the creators of it, and someone needs to regulate that for your benefit.


0:18:06.1 Mike Vacanti: Whereas I tend to lean more on your side, like this is the hand we’re dealt in this life, and I’m gonna focus on what I can control, which is, whatever that means. If that means setting it down to go take a pee or go for a walk without your phone. Saw an interesting tweet, “If you can’t go for a walk without headphones, you have a dopamine problem,” or something along those lines. Which is, I was like, “Oh, man, I can’t remember the last time I went for a legitimate walk by myself without any stimulation. Podcast, music, whatever.”


0:18:39.5 Jordan Syatt: It seems so foreign to me.


0:18:42.1 Mike Vacanti: Remember playing outside?


0:18:43.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude.


0:18:43.5 Mike Vacanti: For hours and hours and hours.


0:18:43.4 Jordan Syatt: I remember lying down on the ground and just playing with the fibers of my carpet and just running around outside. Yeah, dude, 100%. It was the best. Child-like wonder.


0:18:56.6 Mike Vacanti: And I think… I don’t know. We’ll move on from this momentarily. I think that spending the week in Florida, having way less screen time, played a couple of rounds of golf with my dad, like spending time on the beach, just screen time was 25… It was 75% lower than normal. I felt so good, and my output was basically the same. So when you can use it for creation rather than for short-form addictive, mindless, don’t necessarily want to be using it consumption, I think you’re in a real winning position. And then, if you can cycle with that and build habits on it, you can do some really good things, particularly when it comes to growing online fitness business.


0:19:38.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, prescient. I love it.


0:19:44.9 Mike Vacanti: Jordan?


0:19:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Michael?


0:19:48.2 Mike Vacanti: How ridiculous is it that in this day and age and in our society, that if you choose to just eat chicken and salmon and apples and sweet potatoes and normal from the ground, from the earth, healthy food choices, that you’re this social pariah who’s on a thing called “dieting”. But if you’re eating Velveeta cheese and nacho Doritos and Cheetos, you’re eating a standard American diet. How did we get to this place? But that’s not the question, I’m not… Just how ridiculous is it that eating healthy is dieting, and that’s a problem and maybe a mental health disorder, but eating a normal American diet is like good, normal, no one bats an eye?


0:20:40.7 Jordan Syatt: Clips Nation right there. That’s gonna be a great clip. Yeah.


0:20:44.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, thanks.


0:20:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s insane. I don’t really understand it. I do, and I don’t. I don’t understand it from a logical perspective. I do understand it from a people perspective and behavior perspective. From the perspective of… Most people are not happy with their choices in many areas of life. They’re not happy with the choices they’re making. They’re not happy with who they are. And it’s easier to try to control what someone else does to make yourself feel better than to control what you do.


0:21:28.7 Jordan Syatt: And so this is the whole scenario where you go out to eat with someone, and you order a salad, and the other person is like, “Ugh, well, I don’t wanna get a pizza if you’re just gonna get a salad.” And it’s like my decision shouldn’t affect your decision. Or maybe it should. Maybe me getting a salad should be like, “You know what? I don’t need that pizza right now. I’m gonna get the salad as well.”


0:21:47.9 Jordan Syatt: Or, “You know what? Fuck it, I want the pizza, I’m gonna have it.” But you don’t need to say, “Ugh, you’re such a little bitch, you’re gonna get a salad. You’re so boring, you’re a party pooper.” You know what I mean? It’s like it’s easier to try and shame and guilt the other people.


0:22:00.8 Jordan Syatt: I think that’s what a lot of food pushing is, where a lot of people are like, “Oh, just eat this, just eat this. Just eat this. Oh, come on. Just have a bite, have a bite, have a taste. It’s not gonna kill you.” I really don’t think it’s because they want you to enjoy it and you really think you’re gonna enjoy it. I think it’s because it makes them feel better about them having it, and they can justify it more. So I think it’s like a self-preservation thing.


0:22:24.6 Mike Vacanti: Mmm. Makes total sense. Is it easier? I mean, clearly, for some people, it is. But you said it’s easier to control someone else’s behavior rather than your own. In my mind, I think it would be easier for… Yeah, okay.


0:22:39.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know if it’s always necessarily easier, I think it’s the action of pushing on someone else is easier than the action of changing your own behavior. And a lot… Like you’re an ISTJ, so if someone’s like, “Oh, come on, Mike. Have a bite.” You’re gonna be like, “No, I’m good, thank you.” And you’re fine. But I know for me personally, in many instances, I’ve eaten something I didn’t want to eat to make the other person happy. Or to try and not be rude. I’ve done that all the time, I still do it. Even like with me, you’d be like, “Hey, are you hungry?” And I’d be like, “I can eat.”


0:23:09.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but then I…


0:23:10.9 Jordan Syatt: And you would always be like, “No, no, no.” You would always be like, “Hey, no. Are you actually hungry? Do you want to eat?” But most people are not like that. Most people… I’m very much a people pleaser in so many ways, so I would be like, “Yeah, I’ll have a bite.” And in my mind, I’m like, “Listen, whatever, I know it’s not a big deal.” And then I’ll eventually, I’ll be a little bit more strict on the back end because of that. But I don’t know if… Most people don’t have that education, that knowledge that they can do that. And there are times that I wish I would just be like, “No, I’m good.” But there’s a trade-off with that. It’s like, “Do I wanna? It could come off as a little bit rude.”


0:23:46.4 Jordan Syatt: When I go to my wife’s grandparents’ house, there’s no way I’m not… I know that her grandma slaved for hours to make these desserts. There’s no way I’m gonna say, “I’m good.” I’m eating them, and I’m gonna eat a lot of it because it makes me so happy to see how happy she gets when I eat a lot of it. Which I think is also funny as well, like when you eat a lot of what someone else cooks, like even my wife, I go over the top when she cooks something that is really good, I’m like… I go, I sit down, I’m like, “Hey,” and I’m like, “I want you to know, this is the best dinner you’ve ever cooked.” And she smiles, she gets so happy. People, they really do appreciate it. So it is an interesting balance.


0:24:25.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s so funny you went there because I was literally going to say, last week with my wife’s 91-year-old grandma, she made chocolate chip cookies from scratch, she made fresh baked bread from scratch, all of this stuff with the dinner, and this was a handful of days after I had the story where I look at myself on the beach, and I was like, “Ugh, I gotta clean things up a little bit.” And I had a few dialed days, and then we had that night, and most people, if they were offering it or if it was there, even if I thought someone might have wanted me to, if I had the awareness of knowing that, wouldn’t affect me. But in that situation, it’s like 91-year-old grandma getting up in the morning making this for us, I’m eating this stuff.


0:25:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly.


0:25:07.7 Mike Vacanti: Even if it doesn’t fit, even if it’s day four of my thing, I’m eating this. I’m gonna enjoy it, I’m gonna let her know, and then the next day, I’m gonna be back on.


0:25:15.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:25:16.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s interesting though. It’s like there’s levels to who you’re okay with appeasing and what the situation is. If my buddy and I go grab lunch, and he’s like, “Oh, you’re getting that… ” We’re almost in a different position in situations like that. Maybe 15 years ago if that happened, anybody who’s like, “Oh, you’re getting this?” would be like, there might be a little bit of pressure. But now, given what we do for work, it’s more like asking questions. “Oh, you’re getting that?” And then more mirroring from them and a level of one-way learning, basically.


0:25:54.1 Jordan Syatt: I got more shit for it in high school and college and post-college than I do now. And I think it partly because I wasn’t…


0:26:00.5 Mike Vacanti: You were more strict then?


0:26:02.2 Jordan Syatt: No, no, I was more strict, but I think it’s more just because now it’s my career, and people often will expect it more. I also think it’s the environment. I mostly hang out with people who like to eat healthy. The people that I hang out with, the vast majority of time, it’s like people like when we go out, we go out for each other’s company, not to indulge. It’s not like, “Hey, we’re going out so we can eat like shit,” it’s like we’re going out so we can hang out, and let’s get food, by the way, ’cause we’ll be a little bit hungry. But we’re gonna focus on foods that make us feel good.


0:26:38.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s the majority of people I hang out with now. When you’re a kid it’s not always like that. You’re just hanging out with whoever is in your town and whoever is in your classes and all that, and it’s a very different environment. So I think environment plays a huge factor in that as well.


0:26:51.2 Mike Vacanti: It does. And it’s important to remember, even if you’re hanging out with people who want to… Who are consistently and regularly eating unhealthy, like not only does your environment impact you, but you can have an effect on your environment. So the choices that you make in their presence, you might feel some kind of pressure from them, but… And there’s nothing wrong obviously, there’s nothing wrong with eating the pizza now and again, but if you can somewhat consistently make the good choice, they might see you doing that, they might see the progress you’re making, they might start to ask you questions. Your positive habits and behavior could rub off on the people you’re spending time with, which makes you, not only are you getting better, but you’re having a positive impact on the people around you, which is incredible.


0:27:39.1 Jordan Syatt: Clips Nation. Clips Nation right there.


0:27:41.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah? I got some clips rolling today.


0:27:43.0 Jordan Syatt: You got clips. Oh yeah, absolutely.


0:27:45.6 Mike Vacanti: Alright, alright.


0:27:47.1 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s an important discussion. It is very interesting. I’ve been diving… We dedicated our book to all the highly palatable foods without which the book wouldn’t be necessary, but I’ve been diving more and more into it, and it’s just, man… ‘Cause my nutrition has been dialed ever since I started my mini-cut, and mini-cut’s been over for a few months now, and I’ve still been losing weight, like today I was like 146, losing weight very, very slowly, but my nutrition’s dialed.


0:28:20.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s so funny how when I don’t eat those foods regularly, I don’t crave the foods. But as soon as I start to eat them regularly, the cravings go outrageous. It’s like as soon as they become a regular thing, it’s like I’ve gotta have more, I’ve gotta have more. But if it’s something that I have every once in a while, it’s almost like too much when I have it. So okay, this is fine, I have it, I’m done. I don’t even really feel good at this point, so I don’t want it, but if you make it a consistent habit, man. ‘Cause one of my inner circle members, her name is Connie, God bless her, every two or three months, she’ll send my wife and I all these baked goods, and she sends us these cookies.


0:28:58.0 Mike Vacanti: I had some.


0:29:00.4 Jordan Syatt: The M&M cookies. Yeah, you had them. They’re amazing.


0:29:03.1 Mike Vacanti: Insane.


0:29:04.3 Jordan Syatt: They’re insane. And so every time I would come down to my office, which would be multiple times a day, I’d have two of these cookies, every time I came down to the office. And I was like, yeah, no wonder I gained 12, 15 pounds when my wife was pregnant, because I was having two of these, probably six of these cookies a day, like five days a week, and each one is probably at least 350, 400 calories. Just from the cookies. It’s like and dude, they’re so good, they’re so good. And now I can have one a couple of times a week, and I’m fine, but like…


0:29:35.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s good for you.


0:29:37.4 Jordan Syatt: Way better. But it’s almost because when I have it in moderation now…


0:29:42.5 Mike Vacanti: You enjoy it more?


0:29:44.2 Jordan Syatt: I enjoy it more and it’s like it’s overload. It’s like sensory overload. It’s dopamine overload. And it’s enough, one is plenty. But if you start to make it a regular habit, I feel like those cravings get more intense, the more you do it.


0:29:56.9 Mike Vacanti: I agree.


0:29:58.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s not like the more you do it, the more the cravings go away. It’s like the more you do it, the more the cravings crank up.


0:30:05.6 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm. Do you find that there are levels, and the word is probably “trigger foods” but I don’t even wanna put in that binary category because I think it’s like… I think there’s levels to it, it’s not just trigger food, non-trigger food. For me at the top of foods that I can’t and don’t want to eat one of, are chocolate chip cookies. Like there’s no world in which when I’m on track and I’m doing good things and I’m pretty dialed in, that I’m gonna have one chocolate chip cookie. Like absolutely not. But there are like snacks or treats that I can have in moderation that don’t… That aren’t so… I don’t even wanna say stimulating basically that I can eat in moderation and not want more of and feel good after.


0:30:50.0 Mike Vacanti: Like kettle corn is a good example, where it’s like two cups, I can put two cups in a bowl, which is 8 fat, 18 carb and… I don’t know, whatever. Somewhere between 1 and 2 protein, 3 protein, something like that. And that is a perfect amount of sweet after dinner and I don’t need more. It’s like good. A little bit of kettle corn. But if you were to take the same macros and calories in chocolate chip cookie form, then immediately when I’m done with it, I’m like, “Okay, I either need more of those cookies or is there any ice cream around?” Or like… It makes me want more of that. And understanding for yourself what those foods are that kind of hit the spot, but don’t send you over the edge, versus the ones where you’re like, “This just makes me want more of it,” is really important and a great skill to have.


0:31:39.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude, 100%. It’s funny, we have kettle corn and we love kettle corn. Have you had, it’s called BOOMCHICKAPOP. Have you heard of that?


0:31:49.6 Mike Vacanti: Bro, have I heard of it? I founded the company, I’m the first taste tester of all… Yes, I didn’t found the company.


0:31:55.5 Jordan Syatt: So it’s amazing, the sweet… Dude, it’s unbelievably good.


0:32:00.1 Mike Vacanti: The purple bag.


0:32:00.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, the purple bag. Yeah. So my wife and I were watching TV last night, and she brings the whole bag over, sits down, takes a handful out and starts eating it, and she’s like, immediately stands up, gets a bowl, pours it the bowl and puts the bag away, and she says, “I would have eaten the entire bag if I would have sat here with that.” Because she had one bite and she was like, “This is unbelievably good,” and she immediately got up, put it in a bowl, put the bag away and sat down and that was it. If I have the bag next to me, I’m a gonner. The entire thing will be gone. Easily, like easily. But you know…


0:32:35.2 Mike Vacanti: But like Target bag, not the Costco bag?


0:32:35.3 Jordan Syatt: No, like the regular bag. It’s not like a small bag, it’s not like… There’s not 12 kernels in there.


0:32:43.5 Mike Vacanti: No. It’s a good size bag. There’s a bunch of servings. But Costco makes a bag that’s like… You don’t know about this because you’re not living that suburban life quite yet, but Costco makes a real bag.


0:32:53.3 Jordan Syatt: No, no. This isn’t like a big bag of rice, that’s like a 400-pound bag of rice. This is like a, it’s still a family-sized bag, it’s a party size, where it’s…


0:33:01.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, eight, 10 servings something like that in there?


0:33:04.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s supposed to last for multiple people, but I could eat the whole thing easily but you know… And it’s just the cliche advice, but really putting it into a single-serving container helps a lot.


0:33:14.7 Mike Vacanti: And it’s funny because even we can forget that from time to time, right? Like I will eat half the bag, but if I measure it out and I put it in a bowl beforehand, so I know how much I’m having, then I don’t.


0:33:25.8 Jordan Syatt: You don’t eat half the bag? Would you ever eat the whole bag? No, you wouldn’t do that.


0:33:32.7 Mike Vacanti: No. I…


0:33:33.4 Jordan Syatt: You’re on a different level.


0:33:34.8 Mike Vacanti: My connection between my hunger and my actions is more tightly knit than average.


0:33:44.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s how I know you never had a binge eating issue, is like you don’t just eat to eat, or eat for the taste. If you’re full, you’ll stop.


0:33:53.4 Mike Vacanti: Not true. Not… apple crisp, chocolate chip cookies… especially in the like, I don’t know, 2004 to 2009 range.


0:34:02.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh really?


0:34:03.5 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm, yeah.


0:34:06.3 Jordan Syatt: Whose apple crisp woud you eat?


0:34:07.4 Mike Vacanti: My mother’s.


0:34:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh really?


0:34:09.3 Mike Vacanti: The whole tray.


0:34:09.7 Jordan Syatt: With vanilla ice cream?


0:34:10.5 Mike Vacanti: Sure, yeah.


0:34:11.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I’m so hungry right now.


0:34:16.3 Mike Vacanti: Are you?


0:34:16.7 Jordan Syatt: I’m getting hungry.




0:34:21.2 Jordan Syatt: I haven’t eaten yet. I got back from jiu-jitsu and got right on the call.


0:34:25.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh yeah.


0:34:26.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh dude, what’s the pre-workout that you made?


0:34:27.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay, I have… This isn’t optimal from a science evidence-based like we studied this compound at this effective dosage. This is the pre-workout I had this morning, which was the most delicious and like… Yeah, so this is my current pre-workout and I’m a huge, huge fan of this. One 8 ounces of beet juice is the base.


0:34:54.6 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:34:54.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna say everything, and then you can feel free to ask questions. 8 ounces of beet juice is the base, 10 grams of…


0:35:01.3 Jordan Syatt: “Let me fucking finish, then you ask questions.”


0:35:03.8 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no.




0:35:05.5 Mike Vacanti: That wasn’t what I was said. Alright, my pre-workout, 8 ounces of beet juice, 10 grams of collagen protein, a couple of grams of beta-alanine, not a full beta-alanine whatever, 6 grams, but I think it’s between 1 and 3 grams, I don’t measure, just a little pinch. And then one-third of a can of Ghost Energy drink, citrus flavor, and one-fifth of a scoop of Euphoria pre-workout mango pineapple flavor.


0:35:39.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow.


0:35:41.5 Mike Vacanti: Okay? You gotta mix up the powders and the beet juice and shake it all up and then add the energy drink. ‘Cause if you put it all together and shake it up, it’ll explode beet juice all over your house. Don’t do that. And then a bunch of ice. And it is sensational.


0:36:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Man, I need to get on the beet juice train.


0:36:01.8 Mike Vacanti: I love the taste. You don’t have any questions. That’s disappointing. It kinda hurts my feelings… It’s okay, it’s okay.


0:36:05.5 Jordan Syatt: Well, no, I do have questions. Dude, I do. Obviously, the collagen. That’s the main question. Why the collagen?


0:36:15.0 Mike Vacanti: Placebo.


0:36:15.5 Jordan Syatt: What’s the placebo with the collagen?


0:36:16.3 Mike Vacanti: Joints, joints.


0:36:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Hair and nails?


0:36:19.4 Mike Vacanti: No, no. I’m type II undenatured, like the real deal. I’m not buying this stuff from the end cap at Target high markup trying to get that nail hair health, like I’m good. I’m thinking shoulders, knees, hips, elbows. And I know collagen just gets railed in the fitness industry in a bad way, and…


0:36:40.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, in some places it’s railed, in other places it’s revered.


0:36:42.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but it’s revered in like fitspo girl, like put it in your coffee and…


0:36:52.3 Jordan Syatt: Pilates, yoga, like yeah.


0:36:53.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m not doing it for muscle growth. Do I count it towards my protein for the day? Sure, because it’s 10 grams and I’m hitting 175. If I had 100 grams of collagen for some reason I wouldn’t count it because it’s not beneficial for hypertrophy. But for… There’s some research showing type II undenatured collagen protein may have some benefits when it comes to how your joints feel, and I like the additional texture that it gives, like a slight variance in texture in the drink.


0:37:23.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, does it make it a little bit more thick?


0:37:25.0 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t even use the word thick, but I would say it, yeah, maybe thickens it 1%.


0:37:30.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:37:30.8 Mike Vacanti: So not really, but yeah. And then the beet juice, whatever is in beets, nitrates, nitric oxide that leads to increased blood flow, vasodilator, pumps. And, yeah, I don’t need a lot of caffeine, I’m sleeping at least nine hours a night on average right now. And so I’m limiting caffeine to 200 mg a day, basically. Rest days is less than that. But yeah, that’s the pre-workout right now.


0:38:01.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that’s amazing.


0:38:03.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:38:04.1 Jordan Syatt: I like that. I’m gonna have to try that. Do you get the beet juice at the grocery store?


0:38:08.4 Mike Vacanti: I do. There’s only one kind of beet juice. It’s in the juice aisle. There’s four servings. The brand is like Lakewood or something. They sell organic juices. And yeah, it’s like a glass bottle.


0:38:21.7 Jordan Syatt: Is it high in sugar?


0:38:23.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it’s all sugar. It’s like zero fat, 23 carb, 3 protein per 8 ounces. I also like the pre-workout carb, especially in a deficit. Like the liquid pre-workout carb, I notice on the back end of my workout in terms of energy and how I feel.


0:38:47.8 Jordan Syatt: That makes total sense. That makes total sense. What about the pomegranate juice? You were doing that for a while, right?


0:38:54.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, this all started unscientifically when I stumbled across a Dante Trudel post with his pre-workout on Instagram, and I mimicked it. It was like, there were probably at least 10 different supplements in it, in massive quantities.




0:39:13.3 Mike Vacanti: When people are like, “Oh, that tore straight through my body,” and I didn’t really know what they meant. Like about Chipotle or about some… This tore through my GI tract. And so I reduced the dosage, reduced the dosage. It was like taurine, citrulline malate. I don’t even remember all the things in there. Yeah, I think there was some dextrose in there. There’s all kinds of…


0:39:34.8 Jordan Syatt: You put dextrose in there?


0:39:36.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yup.


0:39:38.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting.


0:39:38.7 Mike Vacanti: I mean, it ended up being like a one-and-a-half liter bottle, and he was…


0:39:43.8 Jordan Syatt: For his pre-workout… [chuckle]


0:39:46.6 Mike Vacanti: I mean, he was doing these monster workouts, and he said he would drink half at the beginning and then kind of sip it and then finished it by halfway through his lift. So it was pre/intra.


0:39:57.4 Jordan Syatt: I mean he’s a beast.


0:40:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yup.


0:40:02.5 Jordan Syatt: The guy is unbelievably smart.


0:40:02.6 Mike Vacanti: But it started with that, and then I slowly started reducing things and reducing serving size to be able to handle it digestively.


0:40:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Got it, got it. And then you switched from the pomegranate juice to the beet juice?


0:40:16.4 Mike Vacanti: No, his… I don’t remember. No, his included both.


0:40:21.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, oh, got it. Okay.


0:40:21.4 Mike Vacanti: And I was like, “How much juice do I really need to be?” ‘Cause then it was like 50 plus grams of sugar. I was like, “Okay, even I can probably dial it a little slightly from here.”


0:40:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Nice, man.


0:40:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Jordan?


0:40:38.0 Jordan Syatt: Michael?


0:40:38.0 Mike Vacanti: Zo emailed in.


0:40:43.4 Jordan Syatt: Zo? Or Zoe?


0:40:43.5 Mike Vacanti: Zoe. Z-O-E.




0:40:44.6 Mike Vacanti: I’m an idiot. Zoe.




0:40:50.1 Mike Vacanti: I have a good friend whose brother’s name is Zo. “First, I absolutely love the pod. It’s the only podcast that I listen to every week. By far my favorite.” Thank you, Zoe.


0:40:57.7 Jordan Syatt: Thank you, Zoe.


0:40:58.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m sorry for mispronouncing your name. I apologize. “I was wondering if you had some good book recommendations for coaches in addition to Eat It! Of course. I get overwhelmed with everything out there and would love to know about some of the good things you guys have read. Thanks so much.”


0:41:12.1 Mike Vacanti: And then there were, I think we actually had other people ask about books too, that I just haven’t… Yeah. Oh, here, Megan, I think also asks, shoutout Megan, thanks for listening to the pod, Megan. Jordan, what do you think about books?


0:41:27.6 Jordan Syatt: I wrote articles on this, years ago. Wow, April 10th, 2015, is when I published this one. I’m just gonna pull up some of my top favorites, so… Yeah, this is April 28th, 2015, and April 10, 2015. Okay, so let’s start with strength training, strength training books. Here’s one that I don’t see anybody talking about nowadays, and I think this is just… This is like a pleasure read, it’s fun, it’ll definitely give you great ideas for content. And it’s very helpful. It’s by the late Mel Siff, absolute genius. It’s called Facts and Fallacies of Fitness. Old book, amazing book, strongly recommend. It’s not going to help you with a lot of programs on stuff, but just a really great overall book for facts and fallacies of fitness. Really, really well done.


0:42:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Now, here’s a book that I think… I think… It depends how in-depth in the science you wanna go. I feel like this book should be required reading for all personal trainers. I think it’s gonna give you more information about what’s happening physiologically and program design, than you’ll get in basically any other text. And it’s relatively digestible, there’s great diagrams in it. It’s a little bit of an expensive book, but it’s super worth it. It’s called The Science and Practice of Strength Training by Vladimir Zatsiorsky and William Kraemer. The Science and Practice of Strength Training. I think that if there was one book that I would recommend, if I could only recommend one, it would be that. I think that would be like the best book for everyone.


0:43:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Obviously, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and Practical Programming by Mark Rippetoe are great as well. But we always recommend those, and I think that Science and Practice of Strength Training is something that’s just massively overlooked. And if you’re really interested in the science of this and understanding how this works, how muscle fibers work and how things are… What’s actually going on in a scientific level, this would be a really good book. I’ll say this isn’t a book that you should be parroting to social media and your clients. If you wanna take the topics and make them so easy a 5-year-old can understand it, amazing. But this is for your knowledge, not for your client’s knowledge, if that makes sense.


0:44:04.2 Jordan Syatt: And then another really good one… I’ll give two more for strength training. One of them is called Periodization Training for Sports by Tudor Bompa. This is one of the coolest books I ever read. It gave me an entirely new insight into strength training program design and periodization models based on different sports, different goals, different outcomes. I’ll be the first to say, for the average everyday gym goer, layman and laywoman, it’s not super relevant, but it’s also not irrelevant. This is a higher level of strength training and program design periodization over the long term, but it’s gonna give you some really amazing insight into how higher level athletes, world level athletes, Olympic level athletes can peak for their performance, and it will give you some really cool ideas for your training and performance.


0:44:54.3 Jordan Syatt: And then another really good one is called Special Strength Training: Manual for Coaches by Yuri Verkhoshansky and Natalia Verkhoshansky, which I believe it was either his wife or his daughter, I forget. But Yuri Verkhoshansky is a legend. And I love this book. It was super practical, very relevant. It was exciting to read. Keep in mind, these are old Russian textbooks. So it’s they’re not what you would read on Instagram and stuff, they’re not gonna be as dopamine spiking. But really, really, really great book. Special Strength Training: Manual for Coaches by Yuri Verkhoshansky and Natalia Verkhoshansky. So that’s for strength training. Do you wanna give your two cents before I go into nutrition, Mike?


0:45:39.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t have any books for programming or strength training that really stand out as must-reads in addition to the list that you just made.


0:45:51.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Alright, so for nutrition coaches, and this is for all coaching to be honest, but especially for nutrition, I think Motivational Interviewing. I’ve spoken about this a million times, we have an entire course in the mentorship all about it, how to use it, client psychology and behavior change in motivation. So I think everyone should read Motivational Interviewing. Even if you’re not a coach and you’re listening, the title is Motivational Interviewing, the subtitle is, Helping People Change, which I love. It’s super simple and straightforward. That’s exact… It allows you to help people make the changes they want to make, they’re having trouble making.


0:46:27.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s how to structure conversations, the words to use, the phrasing of the words, the order in which you use them. It’s teaching you how to essentially manipulate the conversation in a good way, to help the person that you’re trying to help actually do what they wanna do. Which if you’re a coach and you’ve tried to coach people and people know what to do, but they’re not doing it, this is a book you need to read.


0:46:47.2 Jordan Syatt: They have a fitness version that is relatively new that I’ve never read, so I don’t know if that’s good, but the main version, the actual original text of Motivational Interviewing is fantastic. And there are a bunch of other books that I would recommend for nutrition, but I think honestly, one of the best things that anybody could do is subscribe to Alan Aragon’s Research Review.


0:47:09.8 Jordan Syatt: I think if you’re not sure about nutritional science and how to find the science and how to digest the science and read it, I think Alan Aragon’s Research Review is literally the single best resource that you could ever have. And I say this all the time, Mike you say this all the time, I’m not paid for it. I’m not paid. This isn’t a paid shout. Alan is a good friend. But I’ve been subscribed since 2011, and I’ll never unsubscribe. It’s just, it’s the best resource in the world.


0:47:38.6 Mike Vacanti: I was literally just going to say Alan had a book come out recently. Within the last year, I forgot the name of it, but…


0:47:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, actually the same day that we published our book. It was the same day.


0:47:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Flexible Dieting…


0:47:51.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s a great resource.


0:47:52.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t remember the subtitle. I skimmed through it. I haven’t read it. It looks amazing. But I know it is because I know his work. And I was gonna say for nutrition books, I don’t even have a book to recommend as highly as I hold the free content that Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald and Martin Berkhan have put out there. And a lot of people might not even know those names, right? I don’t think Martin’s making a lot of fitness content. I don’t know that Lyle’s making fitness content. I don’t know for certain. But what I do know is the free articles on their websites are the pillars on which the entire evidence-based fitness industry stands today.


0:48:36.9 Mike Vacanti: Like everyone who’s talking about the components of metabolism, everybody who’s talking about meal frequency doesn’t matter, for total calories are what matter. Like these ideas were formulated and fleshed out through forums and body recomposition forums and articles by… I might be missing a few, like Layne’s a real OG too, obviously, Layne Norton. But the free content that these guys put out on their websites and on forums in the ’06, ’07 to 2011 timeframe and beyond are so, so good and stand the test of time, and so much of it, 90 plus percent hasn’t changed. That going back and combing through those articles and conversations is as good as any book that we could recommend. And again, are free. You can go there literally right now and check it out.


0:49:34.5 Jordan Syatt: I remember being in my nutrition classes in college and literally sitting in those classes with my laptop open, reading Lyle’s articles, and I learned… I think I’ve read, especially some of the newer articles that have nothing to do with nutrition and fitness, but every article on Lyle’s website pertaining to nutrition and strength training, I’ve read at least, at least three times. Every single one. There are some that I’ve probably read 20 times plus.


0:50:06.4 Jordan Syatt: Those articles, everything from not only the research and the accuracy and how helpful it is, but the formatting makes it so easy to read, the way he explains it makes it unbelievably simple. His dry humor is hilarious. Lyle’s free content on his website is unbelievable. So yeah, I think if you wanna learn nutrition stuff, Lyle, Alan and Martin, the top three. Which by the way, I had Alan on my podcast a couple of weeks ago, and he told me that Martin was a student of Lyle’s, which I didn’t know.


0:50:46.1 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.


0:50:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. ‘Cause we had essentially the same conversation about how they were like, like you said, the three pillars on which the whole industry stands, and he told me, he was like, “Yeah, so Martin actually started as a student of Lyle’s.” Which it makes sense now, but I wasn’t aware of that.


0:51:00.1 Mike Vacanti: I remember reading some of their… I think it was on the body recomposition forums, the back and forth between those two. Good healthy debates.


0:51:14.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:51:15.9 Mike Vacanti: Cool. I didn’t know that. And then Zoe shouted out our book Eat It! Which we can throw on the list, why not. Little self-promotion never hurt anybody.


0:51:26.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s a good book.


0:51:27.3 Mike Vacanti: It is a good book.


0:51:30.5 Jordan Syatt: Wait, you know what? I’m gonna bring up a different topic.


0:51:33.2 Mike Vacanti: I love it.


0:51:34.4 Jordan Syatt: I hopped on the phone this morning with a woman in the mentorship. Her name is Deb. Deb is awesome. She’s absolutely amazing. She’s super consistent, just a smart, kind, genuine individual who puts in a tremendous amount of effort. And we were going over some of her content on social media.


0:52:04.0 Jordan Syatt: And her captions are fantastic. Her ideas for content are fantastic. Her execution of the information is fantastic. The hashtags are super well done. I could tell she paid attention to Instagram growth guide and the mentorship. Everything was great. The one… And I told her all this, I said, “There’s one thing that I think that needs to change.” And I was looking at her reels and her videos.


0:52:34.3 Jordan Syatt: When I was watching her reels and videos, there were a couple of things going on, but the main thing is, when I was talking to her on the phone, I was like I was talking to a friend. It was funny, and we’re laughing, and it was a great voice and tone of conversation. As soon as she hits “record” on her camera, everything changes. She gets very… Like her eyes glaze over. She will not look at the camera. She’ll look at herself.


0:53:00.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s like she’s not making eye contact. It’s as though you’re talking with someone, and they’re not making… It’s like they’re looking at your nose and not your eyes. It’s like not… It’s like “What the fuck is on my nose?” type of a thing. And the way that she… After I told her that, she was like, “Yeah, I always get so… ” I asked, I said, “Do you have a script that you’re reading off of?” ‘Cause it sounds very scripted, there’s no “ahs” there’s no “umms” there’s no “likes”. It’s just like, “If you want three ways to improve your fitness, here’s how.” Jump cut. “Number one, this is eat more protein.”


0:53:32.5 Jordan Syatt: And I was like, “Listen, the information you’re giving is great. It’s great information. And that the editing of the video is great and all that. But it looks like you are reading off a script and it’s not you, it’s not real, it’s like a robot.” And in a world in which… If you were within the first 100 people to be making content online, that would be great. It’d be totally fine ’cause people would be like, “Oh, this is great information I didn’t know. Awesome.”


0:54:02.7 Jordan Syatt: Well, now there’s a lot of fucking people making content online. And if you wanna stand out, it’s not just about the information, it’s how you present the information. And the best way to present the information is like yourself. This is the best way. It doesn’t have to be exuberant, but like you’re talking to a friend. This is one of the most important things. Because when people are fighting for attention, literally fighting for attention on social media, if you’re not being real, it’s very easy to sniff out, and it’s like it’s not as fun, it’s not as exciting. It seems staged and all of that.


0:54:46.4 Jordan Syatt: So my advice to Deb, I was like, “I want you to look in the camera hole, look in the camera hole, and imagine the camera hole is the eyeball of someone you’re talking to, and I want you to… ” ‘Cause she was saying what she did is she would start and stop the camera over and over. Do one clip, stop, start, stop. And I was like, “Hit ‘record’ and let it roll, and do not stop. Do the entire video, and I want you to talk like you’re talking to a real person, and if you say “like” or “umm” or whatever, that’s okay.


0:55:17.3 Jordan Syatt: People do that in a real conversation. It’s not a big deal. People know… If you’re having a conversation with someone and their face isn’t changing shape, like if they’re not moving their eyebrows or they’re not smiling or frowning or making faces, if you’re not doing something, it looks weird. It looks like, “What? Did you get Botox and you can’t move the muscles in your face?” type of a thing.


0:55:43.5 Jordan Syatt: You want to be animated. And it doesn’t have to be over-animated; it just has to be like a real conversation with a friend. So let’s say you’re talking about, I don’t know, how to stay full in a calorie deficit. You can be like, “Hey, here are three ways to stay full on a calorie deficit,” and there’s no tonality change, there’s nothing in your face. Versus like, “Alright, listen. If you’re hungry and a calorie deficit, pay attention. Here are three ways to stay full while while you’re in dieting phase.”


0:56:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Way better. And it’s just the difference between when you’re trying to talk to the camera versus when you’re trying to talk to an individual. And I think one of the best things that you can do is you don’t have to be like me, you don’t have to be like anybody else, you just have to be yourself. And that’s the best part of this.


0:56:24.4 Jordan Syatt: But if you’re trying to be a robot that doesn’t make any spelling errors or grammatical… Not spelling errors when you speak. It doesn’t make a grammatical error when you speak. It doesn’t say “like” or “umm” If you’re trying to do that, then you’re never going to be… It’s never gonna be real. People aren’t gonna connect with you. Be yourself, and it’s the best thing you can possibly be.


0:56:47.1 Mike Vacanti: Awesome. Completely agree. Thanks for sharing that, that’s…


0:56:51.0 Jordan Syatt: I feel like that’s a good one to end on, to be honest.


0:56:53.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yes.


0:56:54.6 Jordan Syatt: I was like, “I wanna talk about that.”


0:56:56.0 Mike Vacanti: No, that was perfect. And really, really, really good advice that we should all take to heart. The fitness business mentorship is officially on sale. It starts right now. If you’re listening to this, the gates are open, $300 off of the initiation fee. We only do this twice per year. If you are looking to build your business, if you’re looking to take out all of the guesswork, if you are looking to become a better coach, if you wanna surround yourself with like-minded individuals and help each other grow and have Jordan and my guidance, then you can sign up right now for $300 off the mentorship.


0:57:33.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s it. I’m not even gonna add to it. That was perfect. $300 off. Let’s fucking go. Link in the show notes.


0:57:38.5 Mike Vacanti: Bang. Have a great day. We’ll see you next week. Weekly uploads. Have a great week.


0:57:44.9 Jordan Syatt: We’ll see you… We better see you inside the mentorship. Alright?


0:57:47.6 Mike Vacanti: See you soon.


0:57:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Have a good one.

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