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In this episode, we answer a listener’s question, “how can you make 1 million dollars annually without making content?” We also discuss coaching ethics within your business, cardio and its effect on hunger, and even some politics…


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:13.1 Mike Vacanti: I’ve been eating a lot more fruit recently.


0:00:15.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’ve been on a big fruit kick. What’s your favorite type of fruit?


0:00:19.3 Mike Vacanti: [chuckle] We did this four weeks ago.


0:00:21.7 Jordan Syatt: Did we?


0:00:22.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, we listed all of the fruits, I think.


0:00:25.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah.


0:00:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Apples, pears, bananas…


0:00:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah.


0:00:30.3 Mike Vacanti: Have been…


0:00:30.9 Jordan Syatt: Wait. Did we do this on a recorded call or what that just you and I talking?




0:00:33.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t remember. But we don’t need to go deep…


0:00:34.8 Jordan Syatt: I think it was just you and I talking.


0:00:36.4 Mike Vacanti: I think it was on the pod, I really do.


0:00:38.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. Well, right now you’re having a ‘naner.


0:00:40.9 Mike Vacanti: Having a banana, for the video pods. A little carb up. Just shifting from a little more processed to a little less, feels good.


0:00:50.9 Jordan Syatt: You’re preaching. You are preaching.


0:00:54.8 Mike Vacanti: How are you?


0:00:57.1 Jordan Syatt: I’m good. I’m an E, so building up momentum as we go through the last podcast now into this one.


0:01:03.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m an I…


0:01:04.1 Jordan Syatt: I’m exhausted. I’m tired. You’re losing steam, which is why you had to get that carb.


0:01:08.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I had to carb up for the steam.


0:01:10.3 Jordan Syatt: But you still got the pre-workout in you and the post-workout high.


0:01:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Half-life of caffeine is five to seven hours, bro. I’m still in a wonderful spot.


0:01:21.0 Jordan Syatt: Why did they start… Why did they say half-life? Why not just say, it last this long?


0:01:31.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s a scientific term if I remember correctly. Where it doesn’t last that long, it means, if you ingest 200 milligrams of caffeine at noon…


0:01:43.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:01:43.1 Mike Vacanti: Then five to seven hours later, five to seven hours is the half-life, five to seven hours later half of the caffeine is out of your system.


0:01:52.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that makes sense.


0:01:53.1 Mike Vacanti: So I don’t know that you can say that how long it’s in you, because if that’s half…


0:01:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Then the other half would be gone in the full life.


0:02:01.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know if the other half is gone in 10 to 14 hours or if half of the half is gone in 10 to 14 hours.


0:02:10.8 Jordan Syatt: What… Why do they call it half-life? I wanna see this. “Half-life is the time it takes for half of the original value of some amount of radioactive element to decay. This implies that one half-life is the time that it takes for the activity of source to fall to half its original value.” That’s what you just said. But… All right. I’ll look more into this. Yeah, I just don’t really get it.


0:02:35.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re wondering why the term isn’t like it’s all out of your system.


0:02:39.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:02:40.6 Mike Vacanti: Well, because… If it’s just double it, then yes, I agree it doesn’t make sense. 10 to 14 hours is the time it takes to be out of your system. But if it means that then it takes another five to seven hours to go down to 25%, and another five to seven hours to go down to 12.5%, and another five to seven hours to go to 6.25%…


0:02:57.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Yeah. That would makes sense.


0:03:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Then it’s this curve, so it doesn’t actually hit zero. But that can’t be right, because that would mean if you… It’s like…


0:03:07.0 Jordan Syatt: It never gets down to zero.


0:03:08.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s a limit problem in Calculus. See, last time we were talking about hitting your third grade audience, we’re hitting advanced. This is AP Calc with Syatt Fitness and OTR here at the How To Become A Personal Trainer Podcast. What should we dive into?


0:03:25.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you tell me, what do you wanna dive into today?


0:03:29.0 Mike Vacanti: I can’t prove this, but… I’m just gonna make a bold statement that I don’t really agree with but I kind of do.


0:03:37.1 Jordan Syatt: I love it.


0:03:38.7 Mike Vacanti: Zone 2 cardio is suboptimal for fat loss.


0:03:45.1 Jordan Syatt: What is optimal for fat loss then?


0:03:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Let me just fully state my thought process here. Zone 1. Well, what’s really optimal is dialing in your nutrition.


0:04:00.1 Jordan Syatt: Right. Yeah, of course.


0:04:00.7 Mike Vacanti: And then on the calorie expenditure side, getting more steps in, in my personal experience, in my experience with clients, getting more steps in which is Zone 1 cardio, not to be confused with Zone 2 cardio leads to an increasing calorie expenditure which is good for fat loss, that does not come with the simultaneous increase in hunger. Okay. I have found that Zone 2 plus, so Zone 2, 3, 4, 5 all the way up in cardio intensity unbelievable for health. Zone 2, especially heart health, really good for performance in various sports and activities makes me feel better when I do it. Is… Makes it harder to adhere to nutrition, and I think they’re both physiological and psychological reasons why, and I’m thinking of this…


0:05:00.5 Jordan Syatt: I was gonna ask about that, yeah.


0:05:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Because a couple of clients one or two historic, current that have gone through things like this, where the increase in Zone 2 cardio for health benefits has led to more difficulty adhering to nutrition. Meaning, let’s say you burn 250 calories just to throw a number out there, in a 45 to 60 minute Zone 2 cardio session, that leads to overeating by more than 250 calories in that day on average. And whether that is because there’s the rationalization of… And it’s probably more of that, but whether it’s the realization of, I did more today, therefore I get to eat more which I think is probably the bigger factor versus actual increase in physiological hunger or need for increased calories, which I think is part of it. But… Zone 2 is suboptimal for fat loss.


0:06:08.6 Jordan Syatt: I’d be interested to hear your experience with this, ’cause I’ve had many clients who say high intensity cardio blunts their hunger, and I’ve also had many clients say high intensity cardio increases their hunger. I’ve had many clients say low intensity cardio blunts their hunger and others say low intensity cardio increases their hunger. I’ve noticed throughout clients, it’s very dependent on the individual which type of cardio increases their subjective hunger.


0:06:41.5 Mike Vacanti: Blunts it immediately after or blunts it in totality?


0:06:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Both.


0:06:45.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:06:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Whether it’s over like a 60-minute period or like a 12-hour period the rest of the day.


0:06:50.4 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. Interesting. Okay.


0:06:52.9 Jordan Syatt: I haven’t seen one definitive… I’ve noticed different things with different clients. The thing that you hit on that I completely agree with is the psychological aspect of it. Which is like, I’ve done more so now I deserve to eat more, or I can eat more, whatever it is. That I’ve noticed is a bigger issue when someone’s not tracking their calories. When they’re not actually tracking it and it’s like, well, okay. Well, I deserve to eat more. I was like, “No. If you’re tracking, here’s your numbers. This is what you fucking eat period end of story.” Whereas, if you’re not tracking and just like, “Oh, well. The treadmill said I burned a thousand calories so I can eat whatever I want.” And that’s when people are getting really issues with that.


0:07:33.3 Jordan Syatt: For me, high-intensity cardio makes me ravenously hungry. When I go to Zone 4, Zone 5, it’s blunted for about 30 minutes, immediately after. And then following that 30 minutes, I’m starving. Whereas, Zone 2, dude sometimes I’ll do Zone 2 and I’m not hungry at all for the next four to six hours. So Zone 2 definitely blunts it. I would also argue that for the people who Zone 2 is not increasing hunger because you’re going at a slightly higher intensity, but not so much that it’s putting systemic stress in your body. You will inherently burn more calories than Zone 1, which assuming you’re counting or tracking your calories and macros and you’re still hitting them, it will actually lead to a faster rate of fat loss of course, marginally, not a big deal. But I do think, the amount of hunger that you’re feeling just depends on how the individual’s affected by that type of cardio.


0:08:40.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, if you’re eating 1800 and doing five hours of Zone 1 a week, or you’re eating 1800 and doing five hours of Zone 2 a week, you’re gonna see more progress doing the Zone 2.


0:08:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Right.


0:08:53.4 Mike Vacanti: Because you’re burning more calories, because it’s more intense cardio. Absolutely correct. I just… That’s interesting that you have seen people who have hunger in totality blunted by higher intensity levels of cardio because I haven’t seen that.


0:09:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you haven’t at all?


0:09:13.2 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm. Immediately after, yes but not…


0:09:17.1 Jordan Syatt: Not like three, four, five, six hours after.


0:09:19.1 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:09:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.


0:09:20.8 Mike Vacanti: But maybe that could have been off my radar and I wasn’t even thinking to ask that type of question. I don’t know. But it’s… Yeah, just interesting. It takes me back to Berkhan’s like just lift and just track and you don’t need cardio for aesthetics type of… I don’t even know if that was coined… It was in that era and is in my experience, and many others, super effective. But you’re right that it varies from client to client. But adding steps is never… You have someone taking 2000 steps a day and you gas them up to 6000 to 8000 all else equal, progress.


0:10:06.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s the best. It’s the best. It’s amazing.


0:10:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Fat loss progress, and we’ve seen the meta-analysis of more steps, longer life, higher quality of life.


0:10:17.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I think we were talking about ice baths in the last episode, and if people are looking for something to do, I would rather people… If you’re gonna… Listen, if you wanna do ice baths. Cool, go for it, that’s fine. But if you’re really looking for ways to have a time-effective way to have the most impact on your health, if it’s between ice bath and walking, that’s a no-brainer for me that walking like sitting in an ice bath is not nearly as good for health or fat loss or anything as movement, like walking.


0:10:58.3 Mike Vacanti: 100%. And that’s not… I can’t prove this, but that’s… I could prove this. Yeah.


0:11:02.5 Jordan Syatt: Facts. Yeah, yeah.


0:11:05.8 Mike Vacanti: We didn’t even talk about, take an ice bath because it increases fat loss… I don’t even think we need to talk about that.


0:11:12.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:11:14.7 Mike Vacanti: Don’t take ice baths to increase metabolic rate and lose body fat. It’s not gonna work for you. I heard an interesting quote the other day…


0:11:28.8 Jordan Syatt: What’s the quote?


0:11:30.6 Mike Vacanti: “Eat the meat, spit out the bones.”


0:11:32.6 Jordan Syatt: “Eat the meat, spit out the bones.” Alright. What’s that in reference to…


0:11:36.3 Mike Vacanti: So Zuby was talking about…


0:11:38.5 Jordan Syatt: I love Zuby.


0:11:45.4 Mike Vacanti: He was talking about basically being able to interact with people you disagree with and people who…


0:11:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Was that on Mind Pump, is that what you’re listening to?


0:11:50.3 Mike Vacanti: I think it was on Mind Pump, and having conversations with people who you know, it might not have been, but having conversations with people who you disagree with, and still getting along and still being able to take something of value from them, which I think is getting lost in a more polarized society, but have it just because I disagree with… This person said X, Y, and Z thing. It’s like, yeah, I don’t agree with any of those three things. And I actually don’t even think those three things are good ideas, but this person also said A, B, C, D, E, F that I think are really good ideas, really helpful. True, and I think that people would benefit from. “Eat the meat, spit out the bones.” People aren’t all good and all bad, no two people on the planet agree on everything, and so we need to be more okay with differentiating between the ideas someone has and the person and then being okay with using some of good ideas and then discarding the ones that you don’t agree with.


0:12:58.0 Jordan Syatt: 100%. Yeah, I think especially now, and obviously this can really go into a political discussion, but any aspect where now more than ever, we find ourselves in echo chambers of around people who agree with us and on these different big, very important topics. And often times when we find ourselves in these echo chambers, they will make it seem as though someone who disagrees with this is an evil person, that’s how they frame it, if someone disagrees with this then the other person, then they’re evil, and… That’s such a dangerous way to go about life, to believe that just because someone has a different belief about this individual topic means that they’re evil, and then what they try and do is because they say that they’re evil, it’s like, well, then we shouldn’t allow them to state their opinion, or we shouldn’t allow their opinion to be heard by other people because it’s an evil dangerous opinion, and that’s when we run into so many problems, and that’s what I see happening right now, especially in the US, where it’s like, this side is evil or that side is evil it’s like… What’s that Solzhenitsyn— “the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.” Right.


0:14:19.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s like, this is… I think my best piece of writing ever, this is… It’s devolving into a different conversation, but I’ll go with it, one of my… I think my best piece of writing and research ever was one of my Holocaust classes in university, I did an entire research paper, I’ve never researched harder than I did for this than I did for this paper, I did an entire paper all about the SS soldiers in the Nazi and the Nazi organization, and there were like some of the worst of the worst soldiers did a ton of the killings, mass executions, mass exterminations, all of that, and it was pretty crazy because a lot of the information that I had to get for this research paper was not available online, like I had to go the old school way, I had to go to the library and check out the books, and a lot of what I was doing was I was reading journals of SS soldiers, I was reading accounts from the Nuremberg trials I was reading every day accounts from the horse’s mouth, and obviously, this is a little bit different because it was evil. That was pure evil. That was true evil.


0:15:43.4 Jordan Syatt: But what’s crazy about this true evil is these people who were committing the worst atrocities known to mankind, also had wives at home and they had kids, and after their day at work of killing innocent people, they would go home and then they’d go on vacation and they would go to the grocery store or they go and take their wife out to dinner, and it’s just like they were living normal lives, but the crazy thing is this, they thought… Not all of them, actually, a lot of them didn’t believe this, but a fair amount of them were brainwashed into believing that what they were doing was good and it was right. Ironically, a lot of them knew that it was wrong and they had real issues as a result of it, and there was rebellions anyway. I guess that sort of is a point going against what I’m saying, but a…


0:16:35.6 Mike Vacanti: No no cause you read… If you’re reading the biography of some Nazi General and within that biography, you’re taking their ideas and what they did and consuming that piece of information and taking what you want from it.


0:16:51.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I just think when you so adamantly believe that your way is the only potential right way and anything else is evil, you’re building the foundation to actually commit evil against the people who disagree, when you put yourself so high up and allow yourself to believe that anyone who disagrees with your belief around this topic, whatever that topic is, if you believe that they’re evil and you think they should be silenced and no one should be able to hear opinion, you are now building the foundation that will allow you to commit evil against that person, and justify it without even realizing it, under the idea of well I’m doing good, but in reality, it’s actually evil. It’s a great quote, “Eat the meat. Spit out the bones.”


0:17:50.0 Mike Vacanti: Ever eaten Jersey Mike’s?


0:17:53.2 Jordan Syatt: I have one right around the corner for me, I’ve never had a Jersey Mike’s sub.


0:18:00.5 Mike Vacanti: Do yourself a favor. Walk in there this afternoon, say, “Hey, I’d like the regular, the Parmesan bread, Mike’s chicken Philly, please.” It is unbelievable. The chicken…


0:18:13.0 Jordan Syatt: When was the last time you had it.


0:18:17.0 Mike Vacanti: Very recent.


0:18:17.0 Jordan Syatt: Today?


0:18:19.7 Mike Vacanti: No, but you know…


0:18:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Yesterday?


0:18:20.9 Mike Vacanti: Within last week.


0:18:21.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:18:26.3 Mike Vacanti: Some insane… The macros are unbelievable. And…


0:18:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Really.


0:18:29.3 Mike Vacanti: The macros are much… If you ate one and then you look up the macros after you’d be like, wow, and if you want a little bit lower fat, do the white bread, instead of the parmesan bread, but for an extra three fats, the taste is worth it. It’s a chicken cheese stake with a solid amount of peppers and onions on it, and it’s like 50 protein, 75 carb and in the 20 to 24 fat range, and it is delicious.


0:18:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Alright. Number 16, Mike’s chicken Philly sub, white bread regular, 45 protein, 22 fat, 70 carb.


0:19:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:19:07.5 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Is it filling?


0:19:10.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:19:11.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:19:14.8 Mike Vacanti: And it’s good.


0:19:15.5 Jordan Syatt: Alright, maybe I’ll go, I’ll go check that out.


0:19:19.4 Mike Vacanti: I, Harvey, you know Harvey, about a year ago, I was out in New Jersey and he was taking me to… I was coaching Gary, and he was “Wanna go to Jersey Mike’s?” I was like, “Can we stop somewhere, should we hit Subway?” He’s like, “Subway.” He’s like, “Let’s go to Jersey Mike’s.” I was like “I’ve never been there.” Ever since. Just unreal.


0:19:37.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you eat this regularly?


0:19:39.6 Mike Vacanti: I’ve been like a once a week Jersey Mike’s guy going here for a little bit…


0:19:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Wow I didn’t know that.


0:19:45.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude, it’s also like $8. I know, I know you’re big time, but…


0:19:52.8 Jordan Syatt: I’m trying to save money, Michael. I don’t eat out very often. Very frugal.


0:19:57.0 Mike Vacanti: You know what? I actually… This is… I wasn’t expecting to go here with this, but for those macros for $8, and it’s just ready to go it’s like insane.


0:20:04.1 Jordan Syatt: No-brainer.


0:20:07.2 Mike Vacanti: No-brainer. And if you order pick up on an app like Seamless or DoorDash, there’s no fee to order pick up, and it’s ready when you get there, so you don’t have to stand in line and order.


0:20:17.9 Jordan Syatt: We should ask if Jersey Mike’s will sponsor us at this point, this is not a paid ad by the way, this is real. Like Mike is going off on how great Jersey Mike’s is.


0:20:22.6 Mike Vacanti: I actually… Yeah, I haven’t done an advertisement in my career. But if Jersey Mike’s wants to sponsor the pod, we actually still probably wouldn’t do it because if they were sponsoring and paying us, then I wouldn’t wanna talk about it, it’s just…


0:20:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s true.


0:20:40.3 Mike Vacanti: Where was I gonna go… Oh, prices are insane.


0:20:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh my God, it’s nuts.


0:20:48.2 Mike Vacanti: But you always… Not eating out and eating at home and cooking was always a way to save money, because if you buy ingredients and make a meal, like the total cost of that meal is in theory so much less than if you were to go out to eat.


0:21:04.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:21:08.5 Mike Vacanti: But some of the meals that we’ve been having here and the price of the ingredients at the grocery store add up close to what this type of meal would cost in a restaurant.


0:21:16.7 Jordan Syatt: Really?


0:21:18.1 Mike Vacanti: In like a middle of the road grocery store, not like a Whole Foods or something along, like a normal grocery store, which is insane. Which I don’t even get because then, it’s how are restaurants making money? And…


0:21:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Makes no sense.


0:21:32.0 Mike Vacanti: They’re not buying retail with their ingredients and they probably have some economies of scale because they’re buying in higher quantities. But still, it’s like if I’m barely saving any money eating at home versus eating out, just, I never thought I’d see the day. And it’s not just eggs, eggs have been a big thing.


0:21:50.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s everything.


0:21:52.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:21:53.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s actually pretty crazy. And I… This is not getting political. All Right.


0:21:57.7 Mike Vacanti: This is twice in 23 minutes Jordan’s not gotten political.


0:22:06.6 Jordan Syatt: I’m not getting political, but I do follow, I think people on both sides lie and they gaslight and they…


0:22:09.1 Mike Vacanti: Most people on both sides, I would say.


0:22:12.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And especially the politicians at the highest level.


0:22:16.2 Mike Vacanti: Not like city council type stuff, but you’re talking Senate, House, like…


0:22:21.7 Jordan Syatt: President. So I follow Joe Biden on Instagram. I follow people on both sides. I’m not getting political. I’m not getting political. I’m just gonna say…


0:22:28.2 Mike Vacanti: I’m not getting political. “I follow Joe Biden on Instagram. Let me tell you something about Joe Biden…”


0:22:34.9 Jordan Syatt: Listen.


0:22:35.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m listening. You’re Good.


0:22:38.8 Jordan Syatt: I’ve seen some crazy things that he’s posting on it. I pay attention to the comments section more than anything. I’m very interested in the comments section of posts, especially by big political figures. And he keeps posting, and obviously it’s not Biden, like he’s not posting on his Instagram, like his team is, but they write it as though he’s posting it. I would love to see Biden use Instagram, but anyway… They’re, he’s posting about how like grocery prices are lower than ever, and gas prices are lower than ever. And I go in the comments and people are like, “Joe…” and like people who support him, are like, “Joe, I love you, but this is not the case at all.” People are… These are people who support him, who like, people who voted for him… Great. Who are like, “Joe, my grocery prices are higher than ever. My gas prices are higher than ever. I don’t know what you’re saying or where you’re getting this data.” But it’s very interesting to me that I’ve noticed it as well, like gas prices are crazy, grocery prices are crazy. But it’s just weird to see like that coming out. I don’t know. I dunno, very odd. I don’t know what, I don’t know, just weird.


0:23:51.0 Mike Vacanti: There’s an old saying that anyone who wants to be king would be a bad king, and that the person who should be king is the person who doesn’t want it. And this is best exemplified in a top three greatest movie of all time: Gladiator. When Marcus Aurelius is in his final years and months and tells Maximus that he wants him to take over. And Maximus has been fighting. He’s a general, he’s been fighting with his army for years. And all he wants to do is go home to see his wife and his son. Maximus would be the proper person to put in control, and then eventually give the power of Rome back to the Senate, which is what he ends up doing… Sorry. Spoiler alert.


0:24:42.4 Jordan Syatt: Spoiler.


0:24:43.7 Mike Vacanti: …if you haven’t seen the movie from, I don’t know, 1999… But unreal. He is like that is the fiction that hits closest to the truth of the concept that the best person for the job and that position of power is the person who doesn’t want power. And right left center, I don’t care. Most of the, like we used to all distrust politicians in the ’90s. Like every… Everyone distrusted the politicians, which I think is the right mindset. And we’re gonna leave the politics here, but yeah. As, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know why President Biden is saying those things on… On Instagram or whichever staffer, whichever Gen Z staffer is running his…


0:25:32.1 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know where all this trust in the government came from. Like any side. Like it’s so crazy. You guys need to read some fucking history books.


0:25:39.8 Mike Vacanti: There’s so much… I don’t think people…


0:25:41.5 Jordan Syatt: You need to look at what’s going on currently in other countries.


0:25:45.9 Mike Vacanti: Do people actually trust? I think they just…


0:25:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh Yeah.


0:25:49.0 Mike Vacanti: I think they just hate the other side so blindly that then they’re wrapped up in this us versus them, and they’re not even thinking about whether they trust the person on their side.


0:25:57.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Well, they… They’ve been told the other side is so evil, going back to what we were talking that their side must just be pure good. It’s like “huh, you think your side is good? Okay, good luck.”


0:26:08.6 Mike Vacanti: And then when you see arguments, it’s like one person, a person on the right brings up a point and then the person on the left like ignores that point but brings up something, “oh, but your side did this.” And the person on the right doesn’t address this. They’re “yeah, but your side did this.” It’s just talking over each other and past each other. It’s ridiculous. Bring back the 90s. We don’t…


0:26:26.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, the 90s were the best. Blink-182, Yellowcard. Who else?


0:26:35.5 Mike Vacanti: I love that you go straight into bands. That’s…


0:26:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that’s just like what I think about like the 90s music.


0:26:39.8 Mike Vacanti: Really?


0:26:40.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh my God. Yeah. I’m taking my wife to Blink-182 this summer. They’re doing like a tour. I’m… I don’t even like live music, but I’m very excited for It.


0:26:49.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome. Yeah. I read a good article on Substack about the 90s from someone who graduated high school in 1999. And uh, and all through his high school career, his teachers were telling the whole class how amazing this new millennium was gonna be in the year 2000. And you guys are gonna be adults going into the year 2000 and things are just gonna be amazing. He was reflecting back on the 90s and childhood, and it was… It was quite nostalgic.


0:27:16.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, do you remember running with a CD player and trying to make it so the CD didn’t skip as you’re…


0:27:22.6 Mike Vacanti: Didn’t skip. Absolutely. Do I remember…


0:27:25.2 Jordan Syatt: I remember like hold, like literally on a run, like trying to like hold it super soft.


0:27:33.7 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely.


0:27:35.0 Jordan Syatt: With my wraparound headphones. God, those were so good.


0:27:40.8 Mike Vacanti: The best. Yeah. I remember the first time I ever tried running with the CD player and I had it in my pocket and it was just banging into my leg and I… It was skipping like every two seconds and then you had to carry it. Just look, here’s… The biggest takeaway for me was… We’re going real off topic and whatever, this is the Personal Trainer Podcast. We… The amount of time that we spent outside doing nothing with friends, without fear, and you just left in the morning on like a weekend day or I was out for 4, 5, 6, 7 hours and I kind of knew where I was allowed to go and where I wasn’t. And then you came home for dinner. And like the things that you did and the games you played, I don’t know. There, there’s definitely an argument to me made that like every generation judges the new one unfavorably and thinks that their time was the best. And I’m not like an anti-tech person, but I do think that less video games and less iPad for 5-18 year olds these days and more fresh air, physical activity and time socializing and interacting with other people and playing would be really good for those kids, those individuals and many adults too.


0:28:54.2 Jordan Syatt: A hundred percent.


0:28:57.0 Mike Vacanti: “How can I make a million dollars per year without making content? Can you think of any business models where a solopreneur was successful in building a million dollar a year business that did not involve that person making any content? Cheers.”


0:29:15.8 Jordan Syatt: I’ve never done that. So I don’t know. I have no… Like everything I’ve done is based off of content. I know there are amazing, I mean, Alex Hormozi stands out as a guy who just has only recently started making content after years of dominating without it. So it also depends what you mean by content. Like does running advertisements count as content? Because I think nowadays a good advertisement is content. Right? In terms of if you are paying for an ad, like a Super Bowl commercial, that’s an advertisement, but it’s content is what it is. So I think it would be very difficult to build a highly successful, and like multimillion dollar business without any content because any content is like even paying for an ad. And that’s really the only other way that I could think if you’re not putting out free content that’s educational, informative, entertaining, then there are two other options that I can think of off the top of my head.


0:30:29.8 Jordan Syatt: One is paid advertisements. And the other is referrals… And I think ideally you could use all three—free content, paid advertisements and referrals to build the best business you possibly can rather than using either one alone. Even email marketing, like that’s content. Emails are content. So I don’t see how… the really only way, if you wanna avoid all content together, then it would all be from referrals and you’d have to do a hell of a job and it would probably have to be an in-person business in order to, like you couldn’t have an online business ’cause if it’s an online business, you have to be making content somehow.


0:31:10.4 Mike Vacanti: And even if your product or service was so good that you built it that big based on referrals alone, it would have been bigger had you been making content.


0:31:18.1 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.


0:31:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Right. Because they’re both forms of reach—making free content, paid advertising are ways to get new eyeballs onto your product or service and referrals way to get more people interested in your product or service. So yeah, technically you could, if you had an incredible product or an incredible service that people really wanted and really wanted to use that they derive so much more value than what they were paying for. And then it’s spread via word of mouth, which is gonna be slower than it would spread if you were putting things on the internet for people to see, which is where so many people are spending so much time. What would be follow up? What would be the skillset? Like you brought up Hormozi. I don’t know that backstory a ton other than seems to be very good at writing copy and a really good even like in-person salesman. So I guess really good sales and really good product/service. What else would you…


0:32:20.3 Jordan Syatt: And ads. Big ads. A lot of ads.


0:32:23.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s right. That’s right.


0:32:23.8 Jordan Syatt: And that’s… Which is content. Like a good advertisement is just great content that you’re paying for. So it’s, I mean the only other way I could think about it would be if you have a brick and mortar thing, a brick and mortar business that people drive by and there’s high volume and I don’t know, maybe you like own a McDonald’s franchise, right? Or whatever.


0:32:46.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:32:48.2 Jordan Syatt: Or something…


0:32:51.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think franchisees are getting a million. Like I saw the math on, was it a Chick-fil-A whatever single restaurant owner, and they’re not netting… the question asked a million dollars a year. I don’t think they’re netting anywhere close to that.


0:33:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I’m sure, I’m not gonna say it’s impossible, but it’s, it’d be much easier for you if you did make content.


0:33:17.3 Mike Vacanti: Well said.


0:33:17.6 Jordan Syatt: All right, here’s something, someone asked “what changed in the fitness industry regarding sodium? Before: don’t eat salt. Now: drink salt!”


0:33:26.5 Mike Vacanti: Great question.


0:33:30.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s a great question.


0:33:30.2 Mike Vacanti: Do you know what, and I guess I can hypothesize what the reasons were that people were anti-sodium and I’m guessing blood pressure, like too much sodium correlated with high blood pressure, with risk of heart attack, et cetera, was part of what was at the base of that? Do you know what else was driving like an anti-sodium movement during its time?


0:33:58.4 Jordan Syatt: That was the main reason. It was… But a lot of it was based off of correlational data of people. It was like people who eat very high salt also often have very high blood pressure. And if you eat a lot of salt, like it can have a direct impact on your blood pressure immediately. So there were… The recommendations were, especially if you have high blood pressure, you need to reduce salt. But what they weren’t taking into account was that a lot of these people who had high blood pressure, there were also super overweight. They were also often smoking. They were not… They were not exercising and they were eating so much salt, not because they were salting their foods, but because the vast majority of the food they were eating was highly processed food that also needed to have a lot of salt as a preservative or whatever it was.


0:34:46.9 Jordan Syatt: So like the salt, it… It came with a ton of extra salt and their lifestyle factors in combination with that was a big issue. And then this is actually, I think you might have found me for… My guest article on Eric Cressey’s website in 2011 was about salt intake. That was, I wrote that and I remember, ’cause I had always been taught that you needed to reduce sodium. And I started writing that article for Eric, like parroting what I had been taught in school and everything. And then I started doing research and I was like I literally, I wrote like the first half of the article and then I started, I wanted to cite sources. So I started looking them up and I was holy shit, I’m so glad that I’m actually researching this because I almost gave Eric Cressey my first ever big guest article…


0:35:37.0 Jordan Syatt: A factually incorrect piece of content that I had learned in college about like you needed to, in my sports nutrition class. Which is, ironic because like sports nutrition, like they should be talking about the electrolytes, all that stuff. But I was told you should not be having a lot of sodium when the reality is all of these other variables were massively confounding. Not to mention it’s easier to increase potassium to which will then have essentially the same effect of reducing sodium, but it’s far easier. Like it’s, if you look at the research around very low sodium diets, they’re so difficult for people to sustain. It’s so… For any number of reasons, not least of which it’s just super bland and not enjoyable. But if you increase potassium, you get the exact same benefits of reducing sodium without actually having to reduce sodium.


0:36:28.1 Jordan Syatt: And that will improve your blood pressure. And also what if you’re increasing potassium, odds are you’re having more fruits and vegetables and less processed foods. So you’re gonna be improving your body composition. You’re gonna be improving the quality of your foods, like all that stuff. So a lot of the initial hatred and fear mongering around sodium was based around people who weren’t living healthy lifestyles anyways. Now I see a lot of people talking about sodium and how you need to be having it in your pre-workout. You need to be drinking it. And I do think it is going too far. I think it’s… I see people who are yeah, you need to be drinking a lot of salt and make sure you’re hydrated. It’s unless you’re like sweating a crazy amount, like you, you’re good. Like most people, especially people who are overweight and have high blood pressure, like they should not really be adding salt to their shit. Let’s focus on other things. But if you are sweating a lot from your workouts, you’re highly active individual, sure by all means, like do that. But I do think it has swung to the extreme, which is very fitness industry esque in terms of now we’ve got everybody adding fucking salt to their, to their drinks. I’m like all right, relax. Like your blood pressure’s 160 over 85. Like, I think you don’t need to be adding salt to your pre-workout.


0:37:50.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You made a great point in there that I love, which is you sat down to write a long-form article and spent a lot of time researching, and people think that you sit down and write to communicate what you know, but you sit down and write to learn about something. And that’s what you did and reached the conclusion, the proper conclusion through that process, so… Good for you.


0:38:17.0 Jordan Syatt: That was a key, key memory that I will always have. I remember I was so excited. Eric was like, “Yeah, you can write an article for a website.” I was like, “Awesome, what do you want me to write?” And he was like “oh,” so I think he was the one that suggested this, I don’t fully remember, but either way, we came on to that topic, alright I’ll do a guest article on this, and I’m writing it and I’m sitting ’cause I was living with my mom at the time, and I was sitting at the… In her apartment in Chelsea, Massachusetts. And I’m sitting at the table and I’m writing it, and I remember being like, “Holy shit.” And my mom was like, “What?” I was like, “I almost just sent Eric a factually incorrect article.” And I had a whole conversation with my mom, and I was like, “I am so glad that I actually did this research before I just wrote an article based off of the knowledge that I had accumulated in school, because shocker university taught me the wrong shit.” That was a key, key moment in my career, I was like, “Alright, I definitely have to research everything before I write a long form article about it.”


0:39:16.4 Jordan Syatt: Yep, absolutely. Oh, here’s actually a great question. I love this. I might also answer this on my Instagram, Lizzy Feist.


0:39:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Lizzy!


0:39:28.7 Jordan Syatt: She asked Lizzy Feist she said, “Is it wrong of me to turn down male one-on-one clients? I really only want to train females.” I love this question. What do you think?


0:39:40.7 Mike Vacanti: If you love it. You can run with it.


0:39:43.5 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it at all. I think there’s nothing wrong with that at all. I think… Man, I was just about to get political… You know what… Fuck it I’m just gonna keep going with it. I think there’s too much push for… Mike is just covering his face, he’s like, “Goddammit!” but like, there’s too much push for equality of outcome da, da, da, da… All this stuff, it’s like, you focus on who you wanna focus on now, if you’re like, “I only wanna work with White people…” that’s a fucking problem. Like, that’s not okay. But “Hey, I only want to work with women.” Cool, “I only want to work with men.” Cool. “I only want to work with basketball players.” Cool, fine, there’s nothing wrong with that at all. Because especially in a general circumstance, like men and women go through very different things and generally they have very different needs, they have often have very different goals. Oftentimes it’s… They feel more or less comfortable speaking to someone of the opposite sex, so if you feel more comfortable and that’s what you wanna focus on. Great, I think that’s amazing. And don’t let anyone say, “Well, you should also work with them with men too.” It’s like if you wanna work with women, just only work with women…


0:41:01.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s your business. And there are differences between male and female that not only…


0:41:07.5 Jordan Syatt: How dare you.


0:41:10.9 Mike Vacanti: What was that?


0:41:10.9 Jordan Syatt: How dare you.


0:41:12.6 Mike Vacanti: How dare I. Yeah, if you’re… I’m… We’re not going down this rabbit hole. Let’s use common sense here. Yes, you absolutely, if you’re more comfortable and or just would prefer to work with one of the sexes rather than the other, you’re a woman, so you feel more comfortable coaching women, or even like it doesn’t… That doesn’t need to be the reason. You’re allowed, it’s your business, work with who you want to and who you’re better at working with, this is kind of like… We could say it’s with anything, if you enjoy training high-level athletes, and someone who’s 75 years old and overweight comes to you wanting to lose body fat and has really struggles with their relationship with food and has binge eating issues and… That’s not who I work with. That’s okay, you don’t have to work with everybody. Maybe this is a little more of a hot button question, maybe it’s not even like we might be over-thinking it, but because it’s male, female, but you as the coach and as the CEO of your business get to pick the population who you want to work with and kindly let, if a man applies for coaching and you’re not taking men on, tell him that and say, “By the way, I know a handful of good coaches, I’m happy to refer you to one who I think does work with you.” like great.


0:42:40.0 Jordan Syatt: Love that.


0:42:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you seemed to think that because she was asking the question that she felt like she would be doing something wrong if she didn’t take on male clients.


0:42:53.5 Jordan Syatt: Yes she… The way she phrased it, she said is it… She literally wrote, “is it wrong of me to turn down male one-on-one clients? I would only like to train females.” It’s like, no, clearly, there is some form of either self-imposed or maybe there are other people in her life who are like, “Why are you only taking on women like you should take on men if they want the help too.” It’s like, “Well, that’s my choice of who I want to work with and who I want to, who I’m more passionate about helping.” And I think if you are more passionate about helping women, then there should be zero guilt associated with that there is nothing wrong whatsoever, and be the best trainer for women ever learn as much about it and learn all the things that specifically affect women, learning all about the menstrual cycle, learning all about different hormonal changes and learning about menopause, learn all of it, learn about everything, learn about anatomy and physiology, learn about the differences in bone structure, look at the differences in injury rates in different parts.


0:44:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Oftentimes, women will have injuries, whether it’s in their ACL or often lower back pain, look at things that are affecting women and that… Well, you then will probably be under-educated on things pertaining to men. Cool, you’ve just established yourself as the leading person for training women, so great. That’s the side of niching down that I’m totally fine with, where it’s like, pick a general population women, great. It doesn’t have to be “women between the ages of 27 and 32 and a half, who make six figures a year,” that it’s just like… No, just women. I love that, I think it’s a great idea.


0:44:42.0 Mike Vacanti: I wonder, because I’ve seen some of this, and I’ve talked to female coaches about this, but there’s a type of man, there’s nothing wrong with if you’re a man signing up to coach with a woman, obviously, I shouldn’t have to say there’s nothing wrong with that, but I do know a type of man who signs on for coaching with a female coach because he wants to wife her, this will give me access to be able to communicate with her.


0:45:09.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:45:10.4 Mike Vacanti: I would imagine some women might feel a degree of discomfort in that situation, which just further makes the point that, no.


0:45:19.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s why so many of the dudes who sign up for OnlyFans are signing up for OnlyFans, ’cause they’re like… They think that if they’re signing up to a woman’s OnlyFans then they’re gonna hook up with her or whatever it is, it’s like, nope.


0:45:29.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah it’s… We should start a mentorship. We should start a mentorship… we should start a free mentorship for dudes who are subscribed to OnlyFans.


0:45:43.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:45:43.3 Mike Vacanti: And we’re gonna take you into this…


0:45:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Improving their lives.


0:45:50.3 Mike Vacanti: In fact, let’s actually do it.


0:45:50.4 Jordan Syatt: Let’s do it.


0:45:52.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s free.


0:45:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Cancel your OnlyFans, you gotta cancel your OnlyFans accounts. And we’re gonna…


0:45:53.9 Mike Vacanti: And then you join the… We’ll think of a good name, but like a life improvement to get you on the right path, get you in the gym, get you some routines, get you some structure in your life, get you some direction because paying 20 bucks a month to some chick to see her boobs is not the strategy for life.


0:46:14.2 Jordan Syatt: No, terrible, terrible idea.


0:46:16.3 Mike Vacanti: And from love, this is coming from deep love from two dudes who have lived many, many years.


0:46:22.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s gonna help men and society as a whole.


0:46:26.6 Mike Vacanti: How dare you help men and not help women.


0:46:27.6 Jordan Syatt: How dare you…


0:46:30.8 Mike Vacanti: You’re awful.


0:46:31.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s not… You shouldn’t be subscribing to OnlyFans, it’s like, it’s not doing you good… Any good. It’s just not. Or society.


0:46:41.5 Mike Vacanti: Correct. Rapid Fire to finish.


0:46:46.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay, here’s an interesting one, I don’t know if you’ll like this, “as a woman, what upper body exercises to avoid, so I don’t grow my traps bigger.”


0:46:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:46:46.8 Jordan Syatt: What do you think?


0:47:00.0 Mike Vacanti: I mean, exercises that would grow the upper traps.


0:47:03.2 Jordan Syatt: So I have potentially an unpopular opinion with this one.


0:47:07.1 Mike Vacanti: But you can’t… What you sometimes do here is you change… Okay, let’s hear your unpopular opinion.


0:47:13.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you even know what I wanted to say?


0:47:17.4 Mike Vacanti: Yes I’m like we had one before where I…


0:47:23.7 Jordan Syatt: Putting words in my mouth.


0:47:26.4 Mike Vacanti: No, I don’t know exactly, but I think you were gonna say like “your upper traps aren’t gonna grow as much as you think they’re gonna grow so you don’t…”


0:47:31.8 Jordan Syatt: No that’s not what I was gonna say at all.


0:47:34.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay, alright.


0:47:34.7 Jordan Syatt: I was gonna say something that is gonna be very unpopular…


0:47:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Oh, alright, cool.


0:47:38.4 Jordan Syatt: Lateral shoulder raises.


0:47:40.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, lateral… Alright. Yeah, I didn’t see this coming. Nice.


0:47:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Lateral shoulder raises, there’s a lot of trap involvement, and even if you’re doing it properly, there’s a lot of trap involvement just in order to upwardly rotate the scapula. I think lateral shoulder raises are one of the best exercises for growing traps, and especially if you’re trying to… If you’re really pushing the weight on it, you’re gonna use trap, it’s impossible not to. But this is difficult ’cause also a common trend for women is they want more defined shoulders, so generally speaking, I would limit the amount of lateral shoulder raise that you’re doing and really focus on instead of necessarily progressively overloading with heavier weight, which is difficult enough on a lateral shoulder raise, but using technique, really pushing your arms out as you… So not allowing your traps to get as involved and really reaching out with your arms as you come up and focusing on a slow eccentric with lighter weight slow eccentric, so to get as much shoulder as you can with as little trap as possible, but if you’re really trying to push those lateral shoulder raises, like you are getting a lot of trap, which like…


0:49:08.2 Mike Vacanti: I like it.


0:49:08.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s it makes… It hits your traps and listen, a lot of people say women can’t get bulky. No, of course women can get bulky. It doesn’t… Look at some of these outrageously fit CrossFit women, it’s like, yeah, they can and they can for sure. But also they’re also training way harder than most people in the gym are, so it makes sense, but to say women can’t get bulky. That’s stupid.


0:49:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Just like men, there’s a genetic component, there are hyper-responders, there are people who add muscle way easier and people who don’t add muscle nearly as easy. I would cross that bridge when you come to it, I wouldn’t go into it saying, I’m not gonna do any exercises that affect the upper traps because then you’re cutting some pretty good stuff, right? To say, “I’m never gonna deadlift because there’s a loaded isometric on the upper trap like,” I don’t know if… Not I don’t know, I know that’s not necessary, but shrugs, farmers carries, rack pulls… don’t do an excess of volume for the upper traps, lateral raises, or do them with more dialed technique. Just don’t…


0:50:13.0 Jordan Syatt: Do you have any unpopular opinions in terms of exercises to avoid or to be aware of.


0:50:20.2 Mike Vacanti: All the ones, I just did.


0:50:21.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh Cool, cool, got it, got it.


0:50:22.5 Mike Vacanti: I mean, holding super heavy weights or shrugging.


0:50:31.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Oh, you know what, you know what there’s another one.


0:50:33.2 Mike Vacanti: Tell me.


0:50:36.2 Jordan Syatt: Cleans, cleans will build outrageous traps. If you’re doing barbell cleans and you don’t want big traps, stop doing barbell cleans.


0:50:48.9 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:50:49.4 Jordan Syatt: Kettlebell cleans on the other hand, not as trap-focused at all, kettlebell cleans, you do still use them, but based on how the arm, the motion of the arm works, it’s actually a lot less trap, it’s a lot less shrug and a lot more momentum with the hip and the way that the arm comes up, it’s less trap so…


0:51:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Comes more from hip extension than from shrugging.


0:51:14.7 Jordan Syatt: From the shrugging part of it. Yeah, yeah. So the barbell shrug, barbell clean excuse me, has a massive shrug component to it, kettlebell, because it’s more of a pendulum, it’s less shrugging, whereas the barbell, you want it to come straight up oftentimes and you don’t have to shrug in order to make that happen, so that’s where I think a lot of the CrossFit women get big, big traps is from, they do so many cleans, so many snatches.


0:51:37.9 Mike Vacanti: Good one.


0:51:39.7 Jordan Syatt: That was a good one.


0:51:40.3 Mike Vacanti: Junior year of high school, we went hard on cleans. And they…


0:51:42.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, did you?


0:51:44.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:51:48.0 Jordan Syatt: I loved watching the football players, like high school football players like cleaning 315 and I’m like…


0:51:51.8 Mike Vacanti: Insane.


0:51:52.3 Jordan Syatt: These guys are just animals it’s unbelievable.


0:51:56.2 Mike Vacanti: Insane.


0:51:56.3 Jordan Syatt: I can’t believe you thought I was gonna go the other way with that. I can’t believe you were like, “Oh boy, you always say, no, it’s okay if you like… ” Yeah, if you want big traps, go for it. But she specifically didn’t want big traps.


0:52:03.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m with you. The way you said it. I did misinterpret that that one was on me.


0:52:08.7 Jordan Syatt: That was an unfair judgment. Michael.


0:52:12.7 Mike Vacanti: Hey, if you’re still listening right now, we would very, very, very much appreciate it, if you would subscribe to our YouTube channel, we don’t run ads, there’s no Jersey Mike’s giving us money to promote stuff, you’re not gonna… This is just free listening, free enjoyment and so if you wanna find a way to pay us back just a little bit, @personaltrainerpodcasts on YouTube, hit that subscribe button. Thank you so much. We hope you have the best day. Best week. Weekly uploads. Anything else Jordan?


0:52:38.8 Jordan Syatt: I’m about to go to Chick-fil-A to get some grilled nuggs.


0:52:41.8 Mike Vacanti: High protein, low fat, low carb.


0:52:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Thank you very much. Have a wonderful week, and we will talk to you next week for our weekly upload.


0:52:45.5 Mike Vacanti: Bye.

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