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In this episode, we discuss several different topics but we spend a lot of time discussing the science behind the health benefits of sleep and movement. We also discuss which we think is more important and which one you should improve first with your clients.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.9 Mike Vacanti: Hello Jordan.


0:00:12.6 Jordan Syatt: What’s up Michael?


0:00:13.8 Mike Vacanti: Welcome to the How to Become a Personal Trainer podcast. It’s great to talk to you.


0:00:17.1 Jordan Syatt: Thank you for having me on the How to Become a Personal Trainer podcast. It’s wonderful to be here.


0:00:21.1 Mike Vacanti: Thank you for having me on on How to Become a Personal Trainer podcast.


0:00:25.1 Jordan Syatt: No, thank you for having me.


0:00:27.2 Mike Vacanti: We’re gonna start… [long pause] [chuckle] Okay.


0:00:34.3 Jordan Syatt: On your podcast.




0:00:39.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna say the definition of a word, and I want you to tell me if anything comes to mind.


0:00:45.4 Jordan Syatt: Uh-oh.


0:00:47.4 Mike Vacanti: Pusillanimous.




0:00:50.3 Mike Vacanti: Showing a lack of courage or determination. Timid.


0:00:56.3 Jordan Syatt: You know I know what this means. You know, yeah. You wanna tell the story?


0:01:01.4 Mike Vacanti: A few days ago… I think you can tell it better, but I’ll just tell my side of the story.


0:01:05.8 Jordan Syatt: No, no. You tell the story.


0:01:07.4 Mike Vacanti: I received a text message from Jordan with a screenshot from Google of the definition of the word “pusillanimous”, I think I’m saying that right, which is where the word “pussy” comes from. And Jordan understanding human nature to a far, far superior degree than I, understood that last week when I said I wanted to stop being a pussy, that people would take offense to that because they thought that I wouldn’t… [chuckle] You like the way I said it too.


0:01:36.8 Jordan Syatt: You like put a hard P in there.


0:01:39.9 Mike Vacanti: That’s what I wanna stop being in life. And Jordan correctly assumed that people would take offense to that, thinking I was referring to the sexual reproductive slang term of females, when really the word “pussy”, meaning “timid”, comes from the word “pusillanimous”. And Jordan gave me that…


0:02:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Pusillanimous.




0:02:03.7 Mike Vacanti: Jordan gave me that little piece of ammo because after decades of consistency on social media, he understands what blowback can come from certain actions and behaviors. And so I wanna thank you for that, my friend.


0:02:16.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Yeah, there’s nothing better than when someone gets really mad at you about something, something that even if they were right, they shouldn’t be mad about it. It shouldn’t be an issue. But there’s nothing better than them getting really mad about it, and them also being wrong and in proving it to them and just watching it just deflate.


0:02:37.5 Jordan Syatt: For example, I said amen once. People were like, “Oh, he did it. ” I was like, “Yeah, amen like I agree type of a thing.” And I had this woman get really mad. She was like, “It shouldn’t be amen. Why isn’t it awomen?” And I’m so fortunate. Number one is, that shouldn’t make anyone angry, period. Number one.


0:03:00.4 Mike Vacanti: You saying amen shouldn’t make anyone upset.


0:03:02.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That shouldn’t. Because the word is “amen”, and the word “men” is in it, it shouldn’t make someone mad that it doesn’t include “women” in it. And even if they were correct that it came from something related to men, which it doesn’t, but the only reason that I knew that it doesn’t is because I know Hebrew.


0:03:24.2 Jordan Syatt: And in Hebrew, “amen”, comes from a Hebrew word “leha’amin”, which is “to agree”. And that’s where amen comes from. And it’s a quick Google search. Google it. It’s like, “What does amen mean?” And I told her, and she just… Watching the deflation. There was… There’s nothing better than watching that.


0:03:43.0 Jordan Syatt: So I wanted to send that your way when I realized, “Oh wow, it doesn’t actually come from the female genitalia, trying to make people upset. It actually just comes from a legitimate word, completely unrelated to the female genitalia.”


0:03:55.3 Mike Vacanti: The fact that that person got upset that you said amen, like a very common word, a very common expression, I can only believe… And I don’t know if this is my wishful thinking and optimism. It might be. But I can only believe that the percent of the population who would get upset about that, whether they express it or not, is less than 0.1%.


0:04:19.0 Mike Vacanti: And you’re a saint, in my estimation, for interacting with what I would call a deranged percentage of the population. Someone who gets upset at you for saying amen, I would consider deranged, unstable. For you to have this back and forth with these people, you’re really a saint because I think I would just find the block button so quickly. And I think that… Yeah, that’s what I think.


0:04:53.8 Jordan Syatt: I love that, deranged. That’s just… “You are deranged.” Block.




0:05:00.6 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t say that. It would just be like, “I’m not gonna interact. ” Or not even block, maybe just ignore, maybe just leave it in the other tab or they don’t know you saw it, if that’s still how Instagram works.


0:05:09.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. It’s still how it works.


0:05:12.2 Mike Vacanti: Nice. Good to know for the comeback. Alright, let’s get into things. [chuckle]


0:05:15.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, TikTok. There’s a lot of news around TikTok right now. Did you see what the Biden admin said?


0:05:22.6 Mike Vacanti: I believe this episode is coming out April 4th. We’re recording here on March 16th. No, I did not.


0:05:29.0 Jordan Syatt: So obviously, this has been going on since Trump was in office, and Trump was a huge proponent of trying to get TikTok banned in the United States, which there was a lot of kickback over. Like anything that any politician does, there’s always kickback from the other side, but now it looks like the Biden administration is trying really hard to ban TikTok as well.


0:05:49.1 Jordan Syatt: And apparently I saw something come out from the Biden Administration basically saying, “We’re trying very hard to get rid of it. The only way we are going to allow TikTok to remain is if the company, which…


0:06:05.7 Mike Vacanti: ByteDance?


0:06:07.1 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know the name of the company. But the company which is apparently owned and operated in China by… It’s a Chinese company. They said, “The only way that we’ll allow this to stay is if you sell the company.” And so it’s like if you sell it to a… I don’t know what the stipulations are, but I don’t think they want it to be a Chinese-owned company anymore.


0:06:25.7 Jordan Syatt: So that appears to be what’s currently going on, which I thought would be very relevant to everyone listening, especially if you are making content. If you’re not making content, the fuck are you doing? But… [chuckle] No, you make content. We’re making content right now, bro.


0:06:43.1 Mike Vacanti: I know. I know. I’m not offended…


0:06:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Mike just gave a sad face.


0:06:45.7 Mike Vacanti: If you’re not listening to the video pod.


0:06:47.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, if you’re on the video pod on YouTube, like the video, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Leave a comment. Let us know you’re watching the YouTube pods. But it’s worth being very aware of because it looks like they’ve started to make more headway than the Trump administration did, and they are moving much closer to this actually happening.


0:07:07.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know if it will. I don’t know if it won’t. I don’t really care either way, but it is something to be very aware of. And so if you are on TikTok, try and get your people onto an email list so you can move them over to another platform.


0:07:22.9 Mike Vacanti: Well, this is why diversifying content production to website, Instagram, Facebook, podcast, YouTube, various platforms and various platforms that have different degrees of your ability to reach the person. We’ve talked about this ad nauseum, your ability to reach someone on Facebook or Instagram, there’s more algorithmic control from Meta than your ability to reach someone via email, which is one of the many reasons we suggest starting to build an email list from day one.


0:07:58.5 Mike Vacanti: Even though you’re not gonna be making exclusive content for your email list, starting to build that list is very important for that reason. But yeah, that is fascinating news. I don’t have much to comment on the national security risk of a giant Chinese-owned company for the US.


0:08:15.6 Mike Vacanti: But on like what we can control, I think that’s a great recommendation by you to if you have a big TikTok audience, not only start moving them to other places, email probably being number one, but also just continuing to make content in a handful of places and prioritizing the places where you’re gonna have control and access, control of access to your audience.


0:08:45.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And I don’t know the national security risk either. I do think it’s funny when the main talking point from both sides is always, “We don’t want them watching us. We don’t want them getting our data.” It’s like, “Everyone’s getting your data.” [chuckle] Every company, every government, everything. They’re all watching us. Everything you do, they know, like everything. So that seems to be the main talking point, but from a national security…


0:09:10.9 Mike Vacanti: You think so?


0:09:12.5 Jordan Syatt: 100%. Absolutely. And people are using incognito mode on their fucking phone. It’s like, “Okay.”


0:09:18.6 Mike Vacanti: Well, that’s… of course.


0:09:20.2 Jordan Syatt: If you think that’s doing anything. [chuckle]


0:09:22.3 Mike Vacanti: The United States government is happy to collect all that data themselves, but to have… It’s something like 100 billion Americans are on TikTok.


0:09:30.6 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know.


0:09:31.8 Mike Vacanti: I think that’s… 100 billion? What am I talking about? 100 million, sorry, Americans on TikTok.


0:09:37.1 Jordan Syatt: 100 billion dollars.


0:09:40.6 Mike Vacanti: You know, it’s cool.


0:09:41.8 Jordan Syatt: Like Dr. Evil.




0:09:45.5 Mike Vacanti: Exactly.


0:09:46.6 Jordan Syatt: “I want one billion dollars.” [laughter]


0:09:48.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. Or Sean Parker. My mind went to that too in the Facebook movie. But the US government would rather be getting all of that information themselves rather than it going to any other government, let alone a government from a country that could be considered our adversary.


0:10:11.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I agree. I just highly doubt that, for example, like Russia or any other country is unable to gather data from us in a number of ways.


0:10:25.0 Mike Vacanti: Sure, but not two hours a day, 100 million people into an app that shows you essentially what people are into and aren’t into. I assume they have access to audio and video on your phone, like being able to track pupil size, time on each… Time between swipe for all different types of content.


0:10:46.3 Jordan Syatt: I think they have all this. I think major superpowers have this, like other countries.


0:10:50.2 Mike Vacanti: Sure. Okay. Alright. That’s a better way to phrase it. ‘Cause does Argentina…


0:10:53.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I don’t think like Slovenia has, but I think major superpowers in the world absolutely have access all of our stuff, including the superpowers, and especially the superpowers that consider themselves enemies of the United States.


0:11:05.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I think there’s probably still an argument to be made that just because they have some, doesn’t mean we should give them infinite.


0:11:12.8 Jordan Syatt: No, I agree. I agree. I don’t know what’s going on, but I think that we know… When I say “me”, I mean like the public, know very little about what is actually being collected by any government. And it’s just, it’s funny when I see all the comments on social media being like, “We don’t want China to have our information.” I’m like, “They’ve already got your fucking information. So like it’s already gone.” Just so you know. [laughter]


0:11:38.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. I agree with that. What would be your recommendation for coaches or content creators? What should they do with this piece of information?


0:11:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Just what we said. Make sure you get people off of your TikTok onto your email list first and foremost, I think. Let’s say TikTok goes down. Let’s just say it’s taken down in the US, you can’t use it. Then I would say the most important thing you could possibly have them on is your email list. That’s without question.


0:12:08.1 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s not a bad idea to try and move them over directly to Instagram because what would happen is as TikTok goes down, I wish… I would imagine behind the scenes, there are Instagram higher-ups lobbying hard and giving a lot of money away to higher-ups in government to try and push to get TikTok removed, because I think Instagram lost a lot of people to TikTok.


0:12:31.3 Jordan Syatt: So I would imagine behind the scenes there’s a lot of money going to different politicians and different officials to try and really push whoever is making these final decisions to get TikTok removed. ‘Cause it could only benefit Instagram, which also benefits advertisers, which benefits the investors, which benefits everybody from Instagram and other US-based social media platforms.


0:12:51.1 Jordan Syatt: So I think that’s going on a lot behind the scenes. But the best thing is get them on your email list, but also move them over trying directly to an Instagram. But I think what I would imagine is a lot of people on TikTok, especially the younger crowd, who is equally important as the older crowd, might not have Instagram yet.


0:13:10.2 Jordan Syatt: So it’s better to give them a reason to join your email list, so you can then try and get to Instagram rather than directly pushing from TikTok to Instagram. By all means to do both, but I think email is the priority.


0:13:20.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And right now, if you’re making exclusive real-style content, post it to… Continue to post it to Instagram, YouTube shorts, TikTok. Facebook. Right? We’re not saying stop posting on TikTok, but understand what’s happening and move ’em over.


0:13:38.4 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been meaning and talk to you about this. I sort of wanted to save this for the podcast.


0:13:41.5 Mike Vacanti: Wow. Dude, I’m so pumped that you’re saving things for the podcast, and this is great.


0:13:47.0 Jordan Syatt: Thank you bro.


0:13:47.7 Mike Vacanti: This is very J of you.


0:13:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Well, I don’t know if you’re gonna like the topic, you might be like…


0:13:50.3 Mike Vacanti: I already like it.


0:13:50.8 Mike Vacanti: “Jordan, why did the fuck did… ” SVB Bank collapse. There’s a lot we could talk about. What’s the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear about the collapse of this bank, the 16th-largest bank in the US, the second-largest bank collapse in US history? What do you think about that? Where does your mind go?


0:14:11.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m too dumb. I wish we had my friend Brett Lundberg here with us.


0:14:15.3 Jordan Syatt: Let’s bring him on.


0:14:16.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m just too dumb.


0:14:16.4 Jordan Syatt: Give him a call. Call a friend. [chuckle]


0:14:18.0 Mike Vacanti: Should I call him right now?




0:14:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Shoutout Lundy, one of my best friends. Well, I think we’d have to start with an explanation of what fractional reserve banking is, and I don’t even know that I’m competent enough to explain that in layman’s terms, although I will, which is essentially every… That’s just my preface for like the people smarter than me who are like, “That’s not what the definition is, you idiot.” But this is close enough.


0:14:49.7 Mike Vacanti: Basically, if a… A bank doesn’t keep dollar for dollar customer deposits on hand. So if you… And the movie, It’s a Wonderful Life, one of the best movies of all time, not for this reason, but it’s from The Great Depression era and there’s a bank run, and it’s a very good movie. It’s not about the bank run. It’s about friendship and the meaning of life.


0:15:15.8 Mike Vacanti: But if you deposit $100 in a bank, the bank doesn’t just hold on to that money. The bank, usually, if that money is sitting in a checking account, for example, the bank is paying you 0% interest. So you’re giving the bank that money so it’s safe, and then the bank takes that money and they go loan that money out and make a return on their loan.


0:15:39.8 Mike Vacanti: So they loan it out as a mortgage, let’s say, and at a, whatever it is, 6% rate, 7% rate right now. And then they’re earning $7 per 100 on that $100 annually. They’re not loaning out the entire $100. They’re probably loaning out… See, and this is where I don’t actually know. There’s reserve ratios, there’s laws and regulation around how much money banks need to keep on hand.


0:16:13.3 Mike Vacanti: 10% for some reason is coming to my mind, so like if there’s a $100 customer deposit, they can loan out 90 of that. They need to keep 10 on hand. It might be lower than that. It might be higher than that. I don’t exactly know, but they’re loaning out most of the money.


0:16:26.8 Mike Vacanti: And so for that reason, you can’t… Like if everyone wanted to take their money out of a bank at one time, the bank would collapse. You can’t do that. And one of the reasons FDIC insurance exists, so the federal government guaranteeing customer deposits up to $250,000 in the US is for that reason, so that like scare of a bank run doesn’t cause everyone to go take their money out at once, causing bank collapse.


0:17:00.3 Mike Vacanti: The reason why SVB got in trouble is because… Trouble meaning like in a bad spot and risk of going out of business, was because they bought a bunch of 10-year treasury bills like a year ago or maybe 18 months ago, and they bought them at something like 1%.


0:17:26.3 Mike Vacanti: So basically, they had this money that they took as customer deposits, and then they bought United States treasury bills. So they essentially invested that money to earn themselves like a 1% rate. But interest rates have gone up so much since then.


0:17:43.4 Mike Vacanti: The 10-year US Treasury bill is now like 5%, in that range, between 4.8% and 6.0%, somewhere in there, that they had to recognize a giant loss. I wanna say it was $620 million loss.


0:18:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Geez.


0:18:05.1 Mike Vacanti: So those are the core pieces here that led to… Now it’s, people are listening to this, it’s early April. This was happening closer to early March, first, second week in march. But there was scare of a bank run at SVB.


0:18:25.3 Mike Vacanti: Then there’s the two sides. There’s the populist side. Two sides arguing on social media, let’s say. The populist side arguing like, “This is a Silicon Valley Bank. These are all like multi-deca millionaires who keep their money in there. The other banks are safe. If your money… Up to $250,000 is still safe,” which is true.


0:18:46.0 Mike Vacanti: I think what that side didn’t realize is that Silicon Valley Bank not only has customers who are wealthy individuals, they have lots and lots and lots of startup businesses that keep millions of dollars there.


0:19:03.8 Mike Vacanti: So while there are definitely your rich one-off tech bro people who have 15 million in the bank, who were freaking out about losing everything over turn 250,000, there’s also a startup company that has $8 million in the bank, that has 40 employees who are driving Toyota Camrys and making 60k a year just grinding.


0:19:26.7 Jordan Syatt: And that money is a lot of investor money too, it’s not their money.


0:19:31.2 Mike Vacanti: The money is…


0:19:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Investors, could have been contributing to them by investors to help run the business.


0:19:34.2 Mike Vacanti: Correct, correct. The company’s money, right. They make payroll payments out of their bank account that they wouldn’t have been able to make to all of those people if the government didn’t guarantee deposits over 250,000.


0:19:50.2 Mike Vacanti: So when a lot of the tech community was pushing for the federal government to guarantee deposits over 250,000, not like guaranteed stockholders, not guarantee like the business from going out of business, but specifically the people who bank with Silicon Valley Bank, that’s why they wanted them to guarantee that money was because mom and…


0:20:10.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s not mom and pop business. It’s a tech business. Even though there’s this weird anti-tech narrative, even though tech companies have done so much and are so good for our country and innovation. A lot of the people who would have been hurt had the government not guaranteed that money, was…


0:20:27.0 Mike Vacanti: Are the people who are employees of tech companies, who aren’t like wealthy individuals by any means. They’re people who just have a job at a startup. And so I think the government did the right thing. That’s my take on the whole…


0:20:45.7 Jordan Syatt: In terms of what? The right thing in terms of what?


0:20:49.0 Mike Vacanti: In terms of guaranteeing customer deposits over 250,000.


0:20:53.6 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not bailing the bank out, but guaranteeing that customers who deposited get at least… Wait, everything under 250? Or everything?


0:21:02.5 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no. Everything.


0:21:04.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow. But okay, got it. Okay, cool. I didn’t know they did that. I didn’t know they guaranteed everything would be taken care of.


0:21:13.4 Mike Vacanti: 95% sure that’s what happened.


0:21:15.7 Jordan Syatt: Wow, that’s incredible. Yeah, that makes me very happy. I thought it was just everything under 250, which I was not happy about, but to hear that they’re getting everything, like that they’re gonna guarantee everything back, I hope they do, ’cause that’s… I think you’re right, I think it definitely makes the most sense. I think it doesn’t make sense to bail the bank out.


0:21:34.8 Mike Vacanti: No, it doesn’t make sense to bail the bank out at all. That’s 2008 all over again. They also… People are like, “Oh, but this is a bad use of taxpayer money.” In 2008, it was something like 400 or $450 billion of taxpayer money to bail out whoever, like Lehman Brothers, I don’t remember. I was 21 years old or something like that.


0:21:56.6 Mike Vacanti: This was 25 billion instead of 400 billion. And it doesn’t technically come from taxpayers, maybe indirectly it does, but all banks contribute money to this FDIC pool, that then that 25 billion is coming from that pool. So it’s not like we increased taxation to guarantee it, it came from a pre-existing pool.


0:22:25.6 Mike Vacanti: Think of it more of a backstop rather than a bailout. And again, it’s not bailing out investors in the bank, it’s not bailing out the equity owners of the bank, it’s only guaranteeing the customer deposits of people who bank with that bank.


0:22:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And maybe I’m wrong on this, feel free to tell me I’m an idiot, but when people complain about bad use of taxpayer money, which I agree, there are clear obviously bad uses of taxpayer money, but I see a lot of people talk about it all the time, it’s like their number one complaint, “This is a bad use. And this is a bad use. And this is a bad use.” And it’s like, I get it.


0:23:01.6 Jordan Syatt: But the way that you fight against that is by staying informed and voting in the people that you want that have interests that mimic what you would like to see represented for you. And I think a lot of people don’t understand that. I think the majority of our tax dollars, I don’t agree with where everything goes, in my opinion, the majority of our tax dollars, especially in a situation like this, even if it does directly come from our tax dollars, like you’re helping out your fellow Americans.


0:23:34.1 Jordan Syatt: If they were using our tax dollars to bail out the bank, that would be a terrible use of your tax dollars and I would be super against it. But like you said, they’re handing out people who are gonna lose their jobs, bailing out people who are mothers and fathers and husbands and wives.


0:23:51.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s not the big elites who are behind the scenes and trying to play chess with us as chess pieces, it’s the everyday American people that need our help.


0:24:01.5 Mike Vacanti: But that was only one side of the narrative, because the other side hears “Silicon Valley” and they just think, “Oh, a bank of wealthy individuals.” And by the way, I’m sure there were lots of wealthy individuals who banked there who are also pushing for the guarantee for reason, but my understanding was that it was at least equal, if not more companies keeping high amounts of money there.


0:24:24.9 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes total sense.


0:24:27.3 Mike Vacanti: I also don’t like the 250,000 limit. We’re starting to hear stories of, what’s his name? The Greek Freak. Giannis, basketball player.


0:24:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:24:38.5 Mike Vacanti: So he supposedly his rookie year, rookie year in the NBA made a bunch of money, and had like 30 or 50 bank accounts that had 250,000 each in them, because the government guarantees 250,000, which was really smart by him as an individual, but it’s like…


0:24:53.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s annoying.


0:24:57.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s a very small percent of the population that is ever fortunate enough to deal with that problem, but it’s kind of silly, it’s like, well, if you’re gonna guarantee 250 across infinite number of banks for an individual, why not just increase the amount?


0:25:10.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:25:10.8 Mike Vacanti: ‘Cause the government’s still guaranteeing the same amount in total. If you have 3 million in one bank compared to 250,000 in 12 different banks.


0:25:18.7 Jordan Syatt: And I think people have a very skewed idea of of what it means to have over $250,000 in your bank. As soon as they hear that, a lot of people are like, “Oh, they’re rich. It’s fine, it’s not a big deal for them.” It’s like what they don’t often understand is that if you, let’s say you’ve got a million in your bank. Number one, there’s actually, like, we could look at someone like a teacher.


0:25:36.8 Jordan Syatt: There’s a fair amount of teachers who become millionaires after teaching for 30 years, because they do a really good job of saving money. They invest it properly, they save it. They’re not buying outrageous cars or super fancy clothes, they just are very good at saving their money and investing it properly. And imagine spending your whole career saving up money of a million dollars in the bank account, and then all of a sudden, boom, your money’s gone.


0:26:04.4 Jordan Syatt: And then everyone’s saying, “Well, you have a million in your bank account, so you could get that money back no problem.” It’s like, “No, you don’t understand. I worked 30 years to get that money in my bank account.”


0:26:13.4 Jordan Syatt: And then not to mention a lot of the other people, maybe someone who’s younger or someone who runs a business and they make a fair amount of money. Well, a lot of that money is there so that they can pay their employees and pay their employees salaries, and what happens if that money, they can’t get that money back right away?


0:26:28.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, they can’t pay their employees to work, so their employees stop working, so their employees are out of a job. It’s like there’s so much, it’s narrative of, “Oh, people with that much money are greedy and they don’t need that much money.” It’s like, who are they supporting with that money? Who are they helping with that money? What does that money do and accomplish? It’s such a short-sighted view of…


0:26:47.2 Jordan Syatt: The more money you have, especially if you’re running a business or owning your business, usually the more money you’re spending on that business, which means you’re employing more people in order to help grow the business and also help more people, including the employees.


0:26:58.7 Jordan Syatt: So all of a sudden you don’t have that money anymore. You gotta fire people and they don’t have jobs anymore. And now the people who you say you’re for are out of a job and are at risk of losing their homes and all of that. It’s a big problem, and I think it’s a very short-sighted look at people who have a lot of money in their back account.


0:27:13.6 Mike Vacanti: Plus, it’s all relative.


0:27:15.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:27:16.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s like, what is a lot of money in your bank account? Well, someone who has more than me.


0:27:22.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, exactly. [chuckle]


0:27:22.4 Mike Vacanti: And this is a problem is all this time. Nietzsche talked about the group of people he coined as “tarantulas”, who are trying to tear people down above them. And so it’s like, well, what’s rich? It’s like, “Well, I make 40k a year, so all those people making 75 and up should be paying way more taxes.”




0:27:39.2 Mike Vacanti: Or, “I make 80K a year, so if you’re making 120 plus, those people are rich and they need to be paying their fair share.”




0:27:44.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s like, “I make 250. If you make seven figures a year, that’s who we should raise tax rates on. Those are the people who need to be paying more.” It’s like you’re just reaching down and…


0:27:54.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s always up. Whoever’s more than you.


0:27:55.8 Mike Vacanti: Just reaching up and… Exactly, exactly.


0:27:57.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s so true. Yeah.


0:27:58.8 Mike Vacanti: Probably an element of human nature, I would imagine.


0:28:03.9 Jordan Syatt: Jealousy.


0:28:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, envy. Which is like a… I was actually doing some research into vices…




0:28:12.5 Mike Vacanti: Are we done on SVB?


0:28:14.3 Jordan Syatt: Sure, yeah. Whatever you want to do.




0:28:19.3 Mike Vacanti: We have real content we’re doing back-to-back, so we’ll see if we get to it here, if this is a fun one. I didn’t realize how much envy and anger were vices. There are common vices that I understand, sloth and laziness. Or sorry, sloth and gluttony being two very obvious ones.


0:28:37.3 Mike Vacanti: Probably gluttony because of the industry we work in and what I see and what I’ve experienced in my life. Sloth definitely because of what I’ve experienced in my life. And probably… Yeah, so I was looking at other vices. Envy making that list was like, “Oh, that’s interesting.” I’d never thought of envy as a vice.


0:29:02.7 Jordan Syatt: This is in the research around… Vices in the research?


0:29:05.4 Mike Vacanti: When we say research around virtues and… This is stuff that rest outside of scientific literature, so when we see research it’s more like the Torah. We’re talking like… [chuckle] The Bible.


0:29:18.0 Jordan Syatt: I was gonna say it sounds like the seven deadly sins.


0:29:19.6 Mike Vacanti: Yes, yeah.




0:29:22.9 Mike Vacanti: When I said research right there, I was talking about Googling. I’m like between sets, when I’m sitting there doing some incline bench, like Googling. I got four minutes to rest. And just interesting to recognize vices that I can relate to. I can relate to binging the Oreos, I can relate to “having enough” and being content and then being lazy as a result of it. But I had never thought of envy as vice, and so when you just said that it sparked that.


0:29:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Yeah, makes total sense.


0:29:52.9 Mike Vacanti: We don’t need to go down that rabbit hole right now. One day though.


0:29:57.2 Jordan Syatt: We could. Let’s do it. [chuckle] What do you wanna talk about?


0:30:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Do you have anything else that you want to discuss?


0:30:04.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh dude, there’s so much that I would love to discuss, but I wanna give you the floor at this moment.


0:30:09.4 Mike Vacanti: What I want is whatever you wanna discuss.


0:30:11.0 Jordan Syatt: This is gonna get real meta because what I want is whatever you want to discuss. This is just gonna go back and forth. [chuckle] I don’t have anything on the top of my head where I’m like, “We need to discuss this.” I already brought up the major things that I wanted to discuss.


0:30:28.2 Mike Vacanti: I think I only have six ideas. Let me preface this, I’ve been re-watching some of our episodes back, like clips of them on YouTube, trying to figure out how we can make the podcast better.


0:30:39.0 Jordan Syatt: They’re good. They’re good.


0:30:41.8 Mike Vacanti: I agree they’re good. But I think I have the same six ideas, so the thing where I’m like, “Oh, I wanna discuss this,” I’m like, well I’ve talked about this four times in the last two quarters. So do people really wanna hear me ramble about nutrition for the next seven minutes, or talk about some theory around carbs? Or like…


0:31:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you know what? I’ve got a theory. I’ve got a theory.


0:31:04.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:31:05.2 Jordan Syatt: So I was brought up just drinking soda in my family, right? So that’s why I tend to like whether it’s like sparkling water or even just Diet Coke, whatever it is. And water for me is, I was like, “Ugh. I just don’t like water. I’d rather have sparkling water or something like that.”


0:31:18.4 Jordan Syatt: But I’m really trying to just drink more water. I love that you just brought out your water bottle that you’re drinking from right now. So these big Stanley cups are a big… Not the Stanley Cup. I know you’re the hockey guy, which… I mean like Stanley jugs, like the ones with water. My wife has them. She got me one. I fucking hate it. I absolutely hate it.


0:31:37.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s the 32-ouncer, right?


0:31:39.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s I don’t know how many ounces. But it’s too many fucking ounces.


0:31:40.6 Mike Vacanti: Is it like a to-go coffee cup that has a narrow base that’ll fit in…


0:31:45.0 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:31:47.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay, I’m familiar.


0:31:47.7 Jordan Syatt: Sounded like you’re talking about a penis, “It has a narrow base.”




0:31:52.2 Mike Vacanti: What kind of penis has a narrow base and then gets wider?


0:31:56.1 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know, but maybe there are dudes out there. Anyway. [laughter] Anyway, she got me that one and I hate it. It’s too big, you gotta carry it around all day and it’s a fucking mess. And it’ll tip over. I just, it’s too much. And it also feels like it’ll never get low enough, like I’ll just never drink the whole thing, which is just demoralizing.


0:32:18.8 Jordan Syatt: And then she got me another one, the white one that I have, which I do like, it’s actually a good one, but it’s still… I think it’s a little too big. So when I was just in Ohio, I got this Westside bottle, and it’s not really big at all. It’s a decent size but fits easy in the hand, super easy to drink from. I’m just like, I’ve been able to chug these waters and I keep refilling it.


0:32:44.9 Jordan Syatt: My theory is that for people who struggle to drink water, if you have a smaller bottle that is less overwhelming, you’ll probably end up drinking more water because it’s easier to finish, and then you can keep refilling it and it continuously is just easier to finish as opposed to one massive one.


0:33:03.7 Jordan Syatt: So this is my experiment. I know you’re usually the guy who’s doing these experiments, but I think this is my water theory and I might make a whole YouTube series about it.


0:33:11.8 Mike Vacanti: I completely agree. My wife struggles to drink water and any time we’re like if we go on vacation and I go buy a giant thing of bottled waters for the hotel or whatever it is, she likes the little 8-ouncers, because the 16s or the 20 feel overwhelming, but the 8, you can put them down, you can gain a little momentum, feel better about it, not have as many wounded soldiers laying around.


0:33:35.1 Mike Vacanti: And so I couldn’t agree more with your theory for people who struggle to drink water, the psychology of drinking and refilling is, I think that’s a really good strategy for those individuals.


0:33:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Thank you, bro. I also think that I’m thinking of doing a 30-day YouTube thing where I only drink water for 30 days, that’s the only thing I drink.


0:33:57.9 Mike Vacanti: No calories?


0:34:00.5 Jordan Syatt: Maybe one coffee, like maybe one coffee in the morning. But everything… Which is basically just water filtered through a bean anyway. But like one black coffee a day and then just water. If I wanted to have a protein shake just to get more protein, fine. That’s not a big deal, it’s still just protein and water. But it wouldn’t be…


0:34:21.1 Jordan Syatt: Essentially no soda, even if diet soda, none of that. I think tea would be fine. If I wanted to have to have tea, that would be okay. Not like boba tea or whatever the fuck, like with the cream and the things in it, even though it’s delicious. Just like a teabag, like mint tea that I have. But only real water, like water or tea. That’s it. Nothing else. None of like the…


0:34:42.3 Mike Vacanti: No alcohol?


0:34:43.0 Jordan Syatt: No alcohol. No alcohol, yeah.


0:34:46.3 Mike Vacanti: So what you would be eliminating essentially is diet soda and sparkling water?


0:34:50.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yup.


0:34:52.2 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:34:53.2 Jordan Syatt: Just to see how that feels and if I end up getting more used to it and all of that and I just… ‘Cause I love sparkling water. It’s just the fizziness, I enjoy it more.


0:35:04.8 Jordan Syatt: But I also feel like even though it is a vice, I think it’s a vice, it’s a crutch. It’s a crutch more than a vice. But I wanted to give that a shot. And I think that would actually be pretty good content.


0:35:18.0 Mike Vacanti: I think a lot of people can relate to that, and I think you should do it. I’d like to see it. And good for you, making that hydration priority. I mean you’ve already taken the big steps, right? Like…


0:35:33.3 Mike Vacanti: What kills people literally and figuratively is if you’re drinking juice and you’re drinking regular soda, and you’re drinking these sugar high, calorie dense, non-satiating liquids instead of water. That’s where the negative health repercussions are.


0:35:49.7 Mike Vacanti: But if you’re having 12 ounces of diet soda a day and a couple of sparkling waters and some regular water, from the purposes of being 99% of the way there from a health perspective, you’re doing amazing, that’s great.


0:36:04.3 Mike Vacanti: But it is just interesting to see you break the pattern of what was probably established in childhood, or trying to break that pattern through this potential challenge.


0:36:11.5 Jordan Syatt: Mine is less of a physiological health and more of a mental thing, almost like taking a social media break. Where it’s like, I don’t think social media or anything is necessarily having a direct impact on physical health, your insulin and stuff, like whatever, you’re not becoming more insulin-resistant because social media.


0:36:31.1 Jordan Syatt: Mental health, dopamine, all that stuff, you’re becoming more… You just need more and more and more. And I was like, I regularly talk about the importance of being bored and relaxing, and I think having even the fizziness or the diet soda a little bit here and there is another way of just giving my brain more.


0:36:51.0 Jordan Syatt: When I don’t need that, it’s like I should just be okay with having water and I shouldn’t need that extra sweetness. I should just be cool having fucking water all the time. That’s in my brain what I wanna do. So I’m gonna give that a shot.


0:37:04.2 Mike Vacanti: Do you think the fizziness gives you a small amount of pleasure?


0:37:07.8 Jordan Syatt: 100%. Large amounts of pleasure. I love those fizziness.




0:37:12.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s why I love Topo Chico, it’s like the fizziest of them all. And it doesn’t even lose its fizziness, I could leave it out for four days, I come back, it’s equally as fizzy. It’s fucking insane.


0:37:21.0 Mike Vacanti: Good for them. Not even paying us to say that…


[overlapping conversation]


0:37:23.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, they’re crushing it. Good for them. [chuckle]


0:37:26.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s a really cool idea. And the meta idea of what you’re doing, if people don’t struggle with water or if people don’t care enough to mimic what you’re doing, the meta of what you’re doing is you’re creating more intentional “pain” and reducing pleasure. Which, from a… If you think of the see-saw of, we’ll use dopamine as the example, pain on one side, pleasure on the other.


0:37:57.7 Mike Vacanti: If you’re doing too much pleasure, if you’re drinking bubbly water all day long and then you stop drinking bubbly water, you’re not just gonna come right back to homeostasis, you’re gonna lean back into pain a little bit.


0:38:06.2 Mike Vacanti: But when you intentionally lean into pain, and you can do this through, people don’t like to hear it, but you can do it through cold plunges, you can do it through getting your butt whooped on the mat, getting choked out in Brazilian Jujitsu, like Jordan used to do, but now he’s the one choking people out.


0:38:23.1 Mike Vacanti: But you can do things that intentionally cause pain, which then afterwards bring you back past homeostasis into a state of slight pleasure. And if we think of all of the cheap dopamine that exists, social media, like looking back 37 times in the first 24 minutes of a post to to see how many likes you get over and over and over again.


0:38:45.0 Mike Vacanti: We can go to sugar, we can go to porn, we can go to jerking off, we can go to sex addiction, we can go to all of these things, anything that causes or creates excess pleasure brings you back to here. So any time you can do anything that intentionally leans into a little bit of pain is gonna lead to you feeling better…


0:39:06.0 Jordan Syatt: Preach. Clip that. That’s Clips Nation right there.


0:39:09.7 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t even been thinking about Clips Nation. Okay.


0:39:11.2 Jordan Syatt: Me either, but that was so good that I immediately like, “Wow. Clips Nation.”


0:39:14.5 Mike Vacanti: Thanks.




0:39:20.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know what kind of see-saw this is.




0:39:27.5 Mike Vacanti: What else you got?


0:39:28.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that was it. I was excited about that theory that I had.


0:39:30.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m excited to see you do that.


0:39:32.9 Jordan Syatt: Challenges are great content, by the way. Challenges are very, very good content. Giving yourself a challenge, whether it’s a mini cut, whether it’s maybe you’re trying to reduce caffeine intake, maybe you’re trying to get X number of steps per day, maybe you’re trying to reach a certain deadlift or a certain number of push-ups or a mile time, or get the splits or anything.


0:39:54.0 Jordan Syatt: Any type of challenge is not only frankly relatively easy content to make, but also people love following a challenge, they absolutely love it, so.


0:40:04.8 Mike Vacanti: I actually, a question popped into my head for you.


0:40:09.5 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:40:10.0 Mike Vacanti: And this might seem like I’m nitpicking something, but I’m genuinely curious. Because… I’ll just ask it. ‘Cause I might disagree, I’m not sure. When you had a post where you’re listening like things to do to be healthy or something along those lines, and one of them was sleep six to eight hours per night. Why did you choose that range?


0:40:34.1 Jordan Syatt: So I’m actually very glad you brought that up. Because that was the one that I spent the most time on, on trying to come up with that range.


0:40:44.1 Mike Vacanti: Really?


0:40:44.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that was the longest one. Because I was wondering if I should go six to eight, or seven to nine.


0:40:48.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay. I was gonna say…


0:40:50.9 Jordan Syatt: What? What were you gonna say?


0:40:52.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t sleep six to eight hours a night.


0:40:53.7 Jordan Syatt: You sleep more than that?


0:40:56.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:40:56.9 Jordan Syatt: Did I say six to eight, or at least six to eight? I thought I said “at least”.


0:41:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Maybe you did.


0:41:02.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m pretty… Let me just double check real quick. I said, yeah, I said, “Sleep at least six to eight hours a night.”


0:41:06.2 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:41:07.7 Jordan Syatt: So it wasn’t like if you’re sleeping more than that, then it’s bad, it was at least six to eight. And I spent probably a few minutes decided between six to eight or seven to nine, because realistically, there’s no question that getting six hours is not as good as getting seven hours.


0:41:27.3 Jordan Syatt: Seven hours is better than six, and eight hours is better than seven. After that there seems to be a little bit of a point of diminishing returns and then there’s actually negative effects from sleeping too much, where you lose out on movement, you lose out on interaction. If you’re seeing 12, 13 hours a day, you’ve got a real fucking problem.




0:41:47.4 Jordan Syatt: But I went with six probably, and by “probably” definitively, because of my more recent situation with having a child and also understanding like… It’s the having a child coupled with also running a business, and knowing that sometimes when you’re building a business, you’re not gonna be able to sleep as much as you want to be able to for optimal health.


0:42:13.2 Jordan Syatt: And six for me is where you can still be healthy with that amount of sleep, but you can also still get way more accomplished than if you’re sleeping an extra couple of hours. Also there’s the fact… Not the fact. There’s the understanding that many people will feel like a failure as soon as they hear that they’re not getting enough.


0:42:41.0 Jordan Syatt: And so whether it’s a mother who follows me, who has three kids and it’s like she’s getting… She’s only able to get six at most. If I say, “You have to get at least seven,” she’s gonna feel like, “Well, I’m a failure.” And that’s the last thing I wanna promote. Even though physiologically, it would be better for her to get seven, I also know it’s not possible for you to get at least seven right now.


0:43:01.4 Jordan Syatt: So how about I start with six, and know that even though it’s not optimal, it is enough for you to be healthy. I think getting less than that for a long period of time is when real negative health effects come into play. But there’s a lot of people and there’s a fair amount of research showing that as long as you’re getting six, and it does depend on the person, different people need different amounts, that six I would say is probably the minimum amount I would wanna shoot for on a consistent basis for health.


0:43:23.5 Mike Vacanti: I assumed that close to the end of what you were saying was the main reason that being… Choosing what is a more realistic target for more people rather than what is optimal, in the spirit of building their self-efficacy, though knowing that you’re checking a box, that that maybe you just can’t based on what’s going on in your life for a one-year, two-year, three-year, five-year window.


0:43:55.6 Mike Vacanti: And we’ve talked… There’s other areas, remember when I said you’re very similar to Dave Ramsey in a lot of ways, the finance guy, and the example I gave was you talking about something around imperfect nutrition strategies, but that are way easier to adhere to, and his thesis that you should pay off the smallest amount of debt first, rather than the highest interest rate.


0:44:19.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s like, “Well yeah, that’s gonna lose you some money in the long run.” He’s like, “But I’ve worked with enough people to know that you gotta build that snowball, you get the feeling of accomplishment and then you keep going.” Cool. And that makes complete sense. I think of Matthew Walker, who’s probably like the smartest dude around sleep, like the smartest scientist related to sleep.


0:44:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Did he write the book, “Why We Sleep”?


0:44:45.1 Mike Vacanti: He did.


0:44:45.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:44:46.8 Mike Vacanti: And he’s done Rogan and I think Tim Ferriss’ podcast and been on Peter Attia at least once. Puts a lot of really good stuff out there. And there was a viral YouTube short that was, the percentage of population who can, something like function… The percentage of the population who can function on six hours of sleep every night consistently expressed as a whole… Rounded to the nearest whole number as a percentage of the population, is zero.


0:45:22.2 Mike Vacanti: So basically less than 0.5% of people can actually function on six hours of sleep over the long run.


0:45:27.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s crazy.


0:45:32.8 Mike Vacanti: That being said, do these things, six to eight at least. And I’m in a position that I know I’m not gonna be in forever, but I’m averaging nine a night. I just know that I’m not gonna be in this position forever. I’m averaging nine a night, and I feel so good.


0:45:53.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah.


0:45:55.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m also doing a lot of activity right now, relative to the average person. But like brain and body are functioning better than they have in a long time while sleeping that much. N Equals One, I know.


0:46:07.2 Mike Vacanti: But there’s also plenty of research to back that there’s a very small percentage of the population who consistently only needs four to six hours of sleep per night, and then most people need seven to nine.


0:46:21.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:46:21.5 Mike Vacanti: It makes total sense.


0:46:25.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. The way I explain it and you explained it as well, when I’m working with someone who has low self-efficacy and who, if I said seven to nine or whatever it is, and all of a sudden that mother of three kids get super upset about it. Now she makes worse choices with her food that day, she feels guilty about not eating right, she doesn’t go on a walk, she doesn’t get some exercise and she feels worse about that.


0:46:48.7 Jordan Syatt: So then she stays up late, later than she needs to, keeps snacking, gets less sleep that night ’cause she already feels like a failure. For me it’s just like it’s that snowball effect. So I’m like, “Yes, it would be optimal to do this,” but so much of… We make concessions all the time.


0:47:04.4 Jordan Syatt: All the time you’re like, “Yeah, this would be optimal, but optimal isn’t always best or isn’t always feasible. And something is better than nothing.” So that’s where I’m coming from when I’m saying get at least this, because that’s the lowest I’m willing to go without seriously compromising health, even though I don’t think it is anywhere near optimal.


0:47:24.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I get… For the people who could get more but simply don’t, because they love life, they like being awake, they like doing things, they’d rather play an extra hour and a half video games before bed, but whatever the reason, there are a lot of benefits to going from six to seven and a half in terms of appetite regulation, in terms of… I actually don’t know definitively on the hormone side, how much it matters.


0:47:56.4 Mike Vacanti: But if you can get more, I would try getting more. ‘Cause it’s, when we talk about optimization, there’s like goofy kind of “who cares” optimization, like getting 99% of the muscle gain you could get, or 100%, by doing a training program that you really enjoy versus doing something with convoluted exercise selection and some theory behind it.


0:48:18.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s an optimization where I’m like, “Okay, I’m okay having 99% of the muscle mass.” Versus something that’s a bigger lever to pull, like sleep for so many people.


0:48:27.9 Jordan Syatt: I’m gonna give you a, I’m gonna give you a situation, and I want you tell me what you’d do in this situation. You’ve got a client and you’ve got an online coaching client, because this is the Online Personal Trainer podcast. Okay?




0:48:42.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s actually not, but keep going.


0:48:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, How to Become a Personal Trainer.




0:48:47.0 Jordan Syatt: “Jordan, that is actually not the name of podcast. In fact the name of the podcast is literally above the recording.”




0:48:58.5 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Your client is currently very unhealthy and they’re only getting 2000 steps per day at most, often less, and they’re only sleeping six hours per night. You as the coach, want to attack one thing at a time. Do you bring their steps up from that 500 to 2000 range? Or do you get them to sleep more, you go from six to seven hours? Which one do you do first?


0:49:34.8 Mike Vacanti: Depends on the person.


0:49:36.1 Jordan Syatt: This is a good one, huh?


0:49:37.8 Mike Vacanti: For most people, it’s going to be easier to increase their step count.


0:49:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Facts. I love that.


0:49:45.0 Mike Vacanti: And so I will probably start with… Even though I think that a greater benefit might come from sleep, there’s a much greater rate of success going from 1500 to 2000 into the 4000 to 5000 a day step count range. It’s very hard for people who have had bad sleep habits their whole life, for me to go in there and be like, “Alright, here’s what we’re doing.”


0:50:08.2 Mike Vacanti: “Your wife like it 75 degrees in the house? Not anymore, we’re going to 65. Okay? She likes to be on social media with the blue light blasting? Well, you’re gonna have to figure that out. When you’re on the blue light with her, that’s you guys’ night time routine, we’re switching that up too. I’m gonna need you to get some blackout curtains and get those put up, like here’s a link, go buy ’em here. Do this, get ’em installed.”


0:50:30.4 Mike Vacanti: “This staying up ’til 01:30 in the morning for absolutely no reason, that’s gotta go too. We’re moving that up to 11:00 PM.” These are difficult changes for someone to implement. Whereas like, “Okay, when you get home from work, have your… ” Not even that, it can be easier than that.


0:50:44.8 Mike Vacanti: It can be like, “Okay, on your hour lunch break instead of eating lunch and then shooting the shit with your buddies and then… ” It’s like, “Okay, do that for 40 minutes and then go for a little 20-minute walk, get some fresh air outside before you go back to your desk, you’re picking up an extra, I don’t know, close to 1500 plus right there.” Making these small changes, it’s gonna be easier to increase the step count.


0:51:08.2 Mike Vacanti: So to answer your question, that is where I would start, even though I think you increase sleep, you’re gonna feel better, you’re gonna wanna take more steps as a result. It’s a little bit chicken and egg, but I’m starting with the steps.


0:51:23.2 Jordan Syatt: It is definitely chicken and the egg, it’s absolutely. Because… Well, here’s the thing. At the beginning you said you think more sleep, getting an extra hour of sleep, going from six to seven, might yield more health benefits. That’s the only thing where I’m not 100% sure and I’ll tell you why.


0:51:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Did I say that?


0:51:38.4 Jordan Syatt: You said… You said “might”. You said “might”.


0:51:40.3 Mike Vacanti: But did I say six to seven?


0:51:43.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That was the question, the question was to go from six to seven in sleep.


0:51:45.6 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I thought…


0:51:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Than to go from…


0:51:50.4 Mike Vacanti: Ah. Sorry. In my mind I’m thinking we’re going from six to seven to nine, and the health benefits are coming from the increase in sleep and the changes in behavior as a result of the increase in sleep. So I assume an extra two and a half hours is gonna make it easier for you to be in a calorie deficit, which is gonna bring your body fat from 47.2 to 22.9 over the next 18 to 24 months.


0:52:14.2 Mike Vacanti: But I agree with you that in a vacuum, going 1500 to 5000 steps every day for the rest of your life, nothing else changes, compared to going from six hours of sleep to seven hours of sleep, there is greater benefit to increased… I think we know based on the research that there’s more benefit from a longevity perspective to increasing step count.


0:52:33.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It definitely is a chicken and the egg though, because here’s… Like you said, you get more sleep, you have more energy, you feel better, you end up moving more anyway, NEAT probably increases as a result of it, all that stuff. On the other hand, with walking, I know personally for me, that if I don’t exercise, my sleep is worse.


0:52:50.7 Jordan Syatt: And by exercise, it doesn’t mean it has to be an intense exercise, but even just getting my 10,000 steps or 7500 steps, I will not sleep as well because I didn’t use as much energy. So I’m thinking, you take someone from 1800 steps a day to 5000 steps a day. All of a sudden they’re gonna be like, “I wanna watch TV still, but I’m just fucking exhausted and I’m gonna go to bed.”


0:53:09.8 Jordan Syatt: And all of a sudden they get an extra hour of sleep or hour and a half of sleep, whatever it is. Then they start feeling better because they slept more, and then because they slept more then they get more energy.


0:53:17.7 Jordan Syatt: So I think it is a chicken the egg, and I think it does really depend on the individual. That for me, I deliberately ask that question in terms of right on the six-hour mark and right at that 2000 mark, because it’s like I think those are both equally bad. And so it’s like, well, which one do we attack first?


0:53:36.1 Jordan Syatt: It’s sort of like if someone has a really shitty nutrition and really shitty exercise habits, which one do you attack first? And younger Coach Jordan always attacked nutrition first, because I think that nutrition is… It’s not that I think, it’s I know nutrition will have a greater impact on your body composition, especially from be able to lose fat more easily, I think it will more dramatically impact your health. And if you get your nutrition, check your food quality, food quantity, all of that.


0:54:13.9 Jordan Syatt: But more experienced Coach Jordan realized that nutrition habits are harder to change first, and there is, you don’t see the results as quickly. Whereas with physical activity, even just walking, the results are literally immediate in terms of the endorphins release, hormonal changes, all of that. You immediately feel better. You do get a little bit more tired, so you end up sleeping better, so you have more energy.


0:54:34.3 Jordan Syatt: So it is always… I think it is chicken and the egg, but I think it comes with the experience to be able to make these decisions and be like, “Okay, this is the one we’re gonna go with first because of X, Y and Z.”


0:54:45.0 Mike Vacanti: Really well said. This is a great episode. I enjoyed talking.


0:54:49.9 Jordan Syatt: Is that it? Are we done for the episode?


0:54:52.6 Mike Vacanti: We’re done for the episode, but we’ll be back.


0:54:54.0 Jordan Syatt: Holy shit, it’s already been almost an hour.


0:54:54.7 Mike Vacanti: Every week time flies when you’re having fun with your friends.


0:54:57.7 Jordan Syatt: What’s the next episode? Where are we talking about in the next one?


0:55:01.3 Mike Vacanti: In the next episode, we are talking about how to maintain online coach and client engagement.


0:55:06.4 Jordan Syatt: Wow, okay. How to maintain online coach and client engagement. Maybe we’ll start doing this at the end of the episodes, letting you know what we’re gonna talk about in the next episode.


0:55:15.6 Mike Vacanti: I like that.


0:55:18.6 Jordan Syatt: Actually, you know what I used to do? I used to do this in the Inner Circle for probably the first six months to a year. I always used to say what the next edition of the Inner Circle was going to include, as my way of trying to get the members getting really excited for it, ’cause I didn’t want them to cancel. And then eventually I was like, “I’m not doing this anymore.” But telling people what’s to come is a very good strategy for that purpose, so.


0:55:37.7 Mike Vacanti: I like it.


0:55:38.9 Jordan Syatt: We’ll see you next time.


0:55:40.9 Mike Vacanti: See you next week.

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