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In this episode, we discuss building your brand and growing your network. We talk about “networking,” and discuss our thoughts on the phrase, “your network is your net worth.” An important conversation with blunt insights you probably won’t hear from others in this industry.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.0 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.6 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael?


0:00:13.8 Mike Vacanti: You have two drinks. I saw you take a sip out of one drink and then a sip out of another drink right before we hopped on. What are those two drinks?


0:00:21.0 Jordan Syatt: We got black coffee in this one mug, and then we’ve got water in this other white mug.


0:00:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Very nice. Getting hydrated, I like that.


0:00:34.3 Jordan Syatt: What are you drinking?


0:00:35.8 Mike Vacanti: I got water over here. Just had a little protein shake. I don’t think anyone realizes… I mean, we’ve all heard you talk about the benefits of fiber on your social media, and you’re on this fiber journey over the last one to two years, and we…


0:00:52.3 Jordan Syatt: Fiber journey. [chuckle]


0:00:54.2 Mike Vacanti: We know that Jordan likes fiber. It was not too many years ago that he was like, “Chia seeds are overrated,” and now he’s like, “Fiber.” He’s a fiber guy.


0:01:02.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:01:03.9 Mike Vacanti: Until I spent a long weekend with you, I did not realize the extent to which you’re a fiber guy. You get more grams of fiber per day than you do protein.


0:01:15.8 Jordan Syatt: No, I don’t. No, I don’t get more… No, I don’t. No, that’s not right. There are…


0:01:20.3 Mike Vacanti: Let me tell the story. Let me tell the story.


0:01:22.0 Jordan Syatt: All right, tell the story.


0:01:23.4 Mike Vacanti: We’re standing around the kitchen island. It’s maybe, maybe 12:30, 1 o’clock PM, okay? And you’re standing there eating, I believe it was either Greek yogurt and Bran Buds, or cottage cheese and Bran Buds.


0:01:36.9 Jordan Syatt: Or cottage cheese. Yeah, I cycle between the two.


0:01:39.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay, and I asked you, I was like…


0:01:41.4 Jordan Syatt: Which are both high in protein, by the way.




0:01:45.5 Mike Vacanti: But I asked you, I was like, “Jordan, how much fiber are you getting per day?” And I think you said, “Probably like 50 grams.”


0:01:55.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:01:56.6 Mike Vacanti: Wow. But I had been looking at the nutrition facts of the Bran Buds, and I knew that you had at least 50 grams in that one bowl in front of you, in and of itself. I was like, “What else have you had?” Oh, and that was the other thing. You had just had the Bran Buds and then you were eating those tortillas, the high-fiber tortillas with the nice chicken salad or… I don’t remember exactly what it was. But I basically tallied up your fiber for the day right in front of you by asking you what you had eaten, and you were at like 135gms, and it was 1:00 PM.


0:02:29.8 Jordan Syatt: No, no. [laughter]


0:02:30.9 Mike Vacanti: Yes, you were. Yes, you were. You had like 60 via Bran Buds, you had three tortillas at 17 a pop.


0:02:38.4 Jordan Syatt: No, it wasn’t 60 via Bran Buds, ’cause Bran Buds are 17 grams per cup, and I had one bowl.


0:02:42.7 Mike Vacanti: No, they’re… No, they’re 17…


0:02:43.0 Jordan Syatt: And that was 17 per cup.


0:02:48.9 Mike Vacanti: Per half cup.


0:02:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Are you sure?


0:02:48.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m positive. That was exactly the dispute we had right there.


0:02:53.2 Jordan Syatt: Hold on. Bran Buds fiber per serving. Let me see, ’cause I looked yesterday, it’s…


0:03:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Dude, we did the math right there, and you’d had two of those drinks at nine a piece. You were at 130 for the day at 1:00 PM.


0:03:08.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh wait, yeah, you’re right.


0:03:09.3 Mike Vacanti: It is a half cup, yep? [laughter] Yeah? Why are you debating me on numbers? What are you doing?


0:03:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Man, the crazy thing is, I looked at it again yesterday with Susan too, and I again saw 17 grams and I just immediately… Wow, for some reason, I’m just making it a cup in my head without realizing it’s actually a half cup. Jeez. Yeah. Okay, yeah, you’re right.


0:03:29.7 Mike Vacanti: Look, I’m impressed. I’m in a state of awe. I didn’t know it was possible to get that much fiber, but.


0:03:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Big, big fiber journey that I’m on. [laughter]


0:03:41.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re on a real fiber journey and…


0:03:47.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dude, your fiber journey is going well.


0:03:49.2 Mike Vacanti: I’m not on a fiber journey. I’ve been on a protein journey since I came out the womb.


0:03:55.3 Jordan Syatt: Since 1994, you haven’t had a meal without protein. I know you were born in 19… What, ’84?


0:04:02.1 Mike Vacanti: 1987.


0:04:04.7 Jordan Syatt: ’87.




0:04:12.8 Mike Vacanti: You also had a piece of content, I don’t remember where it was or what it was exactly, and I was shocked because you ranked… You were ranking something in order of importance, and you put protein above fiber. I was like, “Wow, this guy is either like… He’s either Dale-ing the crowd,” which I don’t think it was. I think you truly in your heart of hearts still have protein above fiber, and so I just wanna applaud you for that.


0:04:35.5 Jordan Syatt: Well, that’s because it was that…


0:04:38.8 Mike Vacanti: For fat loss.


0:04:40.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that was specifically for fat loss.


0:04:40.9 Mike Vacanti: I know, I know, but anywhere where I see protein above fiber on your list these days, I’m just ecstatic. It’d be like if I saw you put a bicep curl above a Turkish get-up, I would just… I would think higher of you.


0:04:54.3 Jordan Syatt: I might do that. I would probably do that, to be honest, right now.


0:04:57.4 Mike Vacanti: I know you would.


0:04:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Big bicep curl guy. Learned from the best.


0:05:03.3 Mike Vacanti: What else is going on?


0:05:04.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude, how are your workouts going?


0:05:06.4 Mike Vacanti: Good.


0:05:07.2 Jordan Syatt: Feeling good?


0:05:08.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:05:09.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah?


0:05:09.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:05:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Good talk. Cool. [laughter]


0:05:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, what else do you wanna know? Ask a more pointed question. How are the… They’re great. They’re going really well.


0:05:17.9 Jordan Syatt: You’re doing neck training right now, or no?


0:05:20.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I always train my… Well, I usually train my neck. Once a week, I slip it in mid workout.


0:05:27.1 Jordan Syatt: Nice. Doing full body?


0:05:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Full body still.


0:05:31.4 Jordan Syatt: Nice.


0:05:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Just a few weeks before I started doing full body workouts, which was four weeks ago, roughly, we, on the podcast, talked about why we don’t like full-body training. [laughter] And the reason I mentioned was, it’s way too exhausting. And next thing you know, I’m like, dude, I’m breaking these workouts into AM and PM sessions ’cause I can’t do it all in one workout. Mentally taxing, and physically, but mentally especially.


0:05:58.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, full-body workouts are brutal. They are just absolutely brutal. It makes sense that you have to split them up into AM and PMs, if you wanna bring the same amount of intensity. I mean, yeah, even… I know specifically the Eastern European, Bulgarian lifters, they would do the exact same thing. They would have their super heavy lifts in the morning, then they would go back and do the accessory work in the afternoon or night. Because it’s like, it’s just, it’s too much to do it all in the same session.


0:06:29.6 Mike Vacanti: The Bulgarians. I might have a little Bulgarian in me. I might have to redo my 23 and Me. I don’t know. [chuckle] You know, you break your workouts up, it’s different things you’re doing, but you feel better doing multiple types of, I don’t even want to call it workout, but activity per day.


0:06:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Having your day split up rather than just one big one-off activity. Just multiple, somewhat smaller ones. Or like, not even smaller, just more moderate-sized. Yeah.


0:07:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Or moderate intensity.


0:07:03.8 Jordan Syatt: You know what I think about is, do you remember… You remember Dan John, right?


0:07:07.7 Mike Vacanti: Of course.


0:07:08.7 Jordan Syatt: Dan John is just like an OG of the fitness industry. I’ll never forget when I was a kid, I think it was an article that he wrote on T-Nation, basically him saying, “Listen, as soon as you walk into the gym,” you know you have that like sand timer. What are those things called? Like the…


0:07:25.9 Mike Vacanti: I know exactly what you’re…


0:07:27.2 Jordan Syatt: You turn it over and the sand falls down until the timer is up? He was like, “Everyone has that. You go in and you have that much time in the gym until you’re out.” And everyone’s… The amount of time that everyone has is individual, right? So it’s like a 16-year-old kid might have two hours on his, whereas a single mother who’s working a couple of jobs might have 30 minutes. Right? And everyone’s sand timer is very different. It could depend on your schedule, also depend on just your own preferences. And I know from you, when I was younger, dude, I could have like a two, two and a half hour sand timer, just spend that long in the gym and love every second of it, and also give ridiculous intensity throughout that entire two, two and a half hour session. Whereas now it’s like, I think it’s closer to like 45 minutes, where it’s like, it’s very difficult. The main thing being the intensity. If it’s a lower intensity, I can go for maybe like 75-80 minutes. But if I have to give a real legit high-level intensity on multiple movements, 45 is it, and then I’m like, “All right, I need to get out of here.” It’s too much.


0:08:37.2 Mike Vacanti: Is that impacted at all by your nutrition?


0:08:40.5 Jordan Syatt: Are you hating on fiber again?


0:08:42.4 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, no, no, no. I’m saying like…


0:08:44.4 Jordan Syatt: “Maybe your fiber is causing your intensity to go down.”




0:08:47.0 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no. That’s not where I was going with it.


0:08:52.1 Jordan Syatt: “Little fiber journey you’re on is killing your gains.”


0:08:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Fiber journey. You like that one. No. What I have noticed is that with the higher volume longer training sessions, if I, the day before and the morning of, have had more calories and specifically more carbs, I actually feel like I notice a slight increase in… I notice less fatigue later in the workout. I feel like I have slightly more endurance, slightly more energy. Which I don’t think is one-to-one physiological, meaning I don’t think that I am… If I have a smaller carb meal in the morning, I don’t think I’m completely depleting glycogen like four exercises into the workout, and so I literally don’t have gas in the tank for the next three or four exercises. I don’t think that’s what’s going on. But I do feel like I can go longer in the gym when I have had more food.


0:09:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I’m sure that’s part of it. I think it’s more of a psychological thing for me.


0:09:52.3 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:09:52.9 Jordan Syatt: Where it’s just like… Even yesterday, for example, I was doing sprints, and Alex Viada is still doing my cardio, my cardio programming. I do my strength, but he’s been doing my cardio. And, man, I remember when I was younger, if I was doing sprints, dude, I could go as hard as I possibly could multiple times over. And now I’m like… I’ve really got to buffer it where it’s like, all right, if he’s saying you’re going at like a 10 out of 10 sprint, I can do that a couple of times mentally, but after that I’m like, “I can’t keep doing this outrageously high intensity anymore.” So I’ll literally drop it from a 10 RPE to an 8 RPE or something. Where it’s like, especially if I need to sustain it over a longer period of time. Granted, Alex Viada’s sprint sessions can be absolutely devastating. So that I’m sure is playing a role in it. But I think it’s more of the psychology of how long can I stay in here before I mentally quit.




0:11:07.0 Jordan Syatt: And like that’s really what’s going on. Which is interesting because it’s just with lifting and with actually being in the gym. If it’s jiu-jitsu, I’m good. I can go for super long. And I think a lot of it might have to do with enjoyment as well. Now that I’m thinking about it. Right?


0:11:24.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s how you know it’s psychological and not physiological.


0:11:27.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of it is like I’m on the treadmill and I’m like, “I hate this. I hate this. All right, all right, I’ll just reduce the intensity a little bit.”




0:11:36.2 Mike Vacanti: So it’s not that you necessarily can’t, because you’re in the best cardio shape you’ve been in in a long time.


0:11:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By far.


0:11:46.2 Mike Vacanti: But if it’s a question of, okay, am I gonna actually do this at maybe an 8 out of 10 intensity, or am I going to push myself to the point where I quit and just don’t want to do it, if it’s a binary, like 10 out of 10 or not do it at all, 8 out of 10 is way, way better.




0:12:05.2 Jordan Syatt: There’s also the… I’m thinking now, you know when you’re in high school, you’re trying to make varsity, so you’re, I’m gonna go so freaking hard. You want to make varsity, you want to be the best. Now at 32, I’m like, “Ah, whatever.” [laughter] That like just competitiveness isn’t there anymore. Because even though I compete in jiu-jitsu, it’s still like, I know after the jiu-jitsu competition we’re all just gonna go out and get beers and no one’s really gonna care. [laughter] It’s just not that important for me to be the best anymore.


0:12:39.1 Mike Vacanti: Which I think is just a sign of wisdom and comes with years.


0:12:43.9 Jordan Syatt: Or laziness, and just…


0:12:46.2 Mike Vacanti: No. Because you start to take a more realistic… For better or worse, right?


0:12:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s true.


0:12:53.7 Mike Vacanti: You start to take a more realistic approach to the world, and seeing like, “Okay, there can only be one the best at each thing and there’s billions of humans. And so… “


0:13:04.9 Jordan Syatt: And I know for a fact that I’m definitely not even close to the best in this, so, whatever. [chuckle]


0:13:11.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:13:12.3 Jordan Syatt: Maybe if I was like 14 or 15, just starting out, and I’d be like, “I’m going to be the best,” and then I’d go absolutely crazy. But now at 32, I’m like, “There is no way that’s ever gonna happen.” Yeah, it is. It’s very much just realistic view of, well, I just know, with everything I’ve got going on and everything I’m willing to commit, there’s no way I will ever, ever be the best. [chuckle] So 8 out of 10 is fine. I don’t need the 10 out of 10. [laughter]


0:13:36.1 Mike Vacanti: You know what that reminds me of? It reminds me of?


0:13:37.5 Jordan Syatt: What?


0:13:38.0 Mike Vacanti: It reminds me of the boxing coach/martial arts coach sales tactic with a new client, of being like…


0:13:47.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Oh my God, that’s so funny.


0:13:49.5 Mike Vacanti: “You could be champion of the world. You could be the best.” It’s like, “I could be the best.” I’m just really drinking the Kool-Aid.


0:13:57.5 Jordan Syatt: S”ign up for six months in advance right now, ’cause you could be the best. If you and I work together every day for six months one-on-one, I could see you winning golden gloves.” “Wow. Okay. Let’s sign up.”


0:14:10.5 Mike Vacanti: “Here’s my credit card. I’m in. [laughter] Give me that 6:00 AM slot Monday to Friday.” Yeah.


0:14:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Walking around New York City, in your head, just bouncing around like, “Yeah, my boxing coach said I could be the best.”


0:14:22.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s a real shift from a singular focus in life. And I think the best example is being 14 years old and being like, “I wanna be on varsity, I wanna win a state championship, I wanna go division one, I want that track, where that matters so much more,” or at least did for me and sounds like for you, than anything else going on at the time. Whereas now the interests are broader, more responsibility, more going on in life and less of a singular focus.


0:14:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. It makes total sense.


0:15:00.4 Mike Vacanti: This segues us kinda nice. We got a DM on Instagram, where we’re pulling some questions from there. So if you have any questions, Instagram handle is @personaltrainerpodcast. We’re making daily content over there.


0:15:12.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, we’re just railing into the daily content.


0:15:15.8 Mike Vacanti: We’re railing that content. [chuckle] Railing is a word that probably needs to make a comeback, right? It gets…




0:15:22.9 Jordan Syatt: Let’s do it. Let’s bring it back.


0:15:24.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s not bad, is it?


0:15:25.7 Jordan Syatt: No. No, no. It’s not bad.


0:15:26.5 Mike Vacanti: And even if it is, let’s bring it back.


0:15:29.0 Jordan Syatt: We’re bringing railing back.


0:15:31.5 Mike Vacanti: We’re railing the content across the board, but especially on Instagram. And a couple of good DMS, and we’re gonna pull one right here, which is a little bit of a fun one, which is…


0:15:43.0 Jordan Syatt: You got a smirk on your face that lets me know this might…


0:15:45.2 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no. It’s not bad or anything like… From Nick. Shout-out Nick. “Hey, guys. Important question for the podcast. Could Jordan beat Zuck in jiu-jitsu?”


0:16:00.3 Jordan Syatt: I knew you had a shit-eating grin on your face for something… [laughter]


0:16:04.0 Mike Vacanti: And then he linked the USA Today story of Zuckerberg competing and winning gold I believe, right?


0:16:10.9 Jordan Syatt: He competed in gi and no gi. He won gold in one division. I think he won gold in no gi and silver in gi. And he was in the white belt division, but it’s… Really, the only people that care about belts are people who don’t do it, ’cause there are killers who are very low belts, and there are not killers who are very high belts. So, I don’t know. To be very honest, his jiu-jitsu looked very good from the clips that I saw. Very smooth, very fluid. And I also just think… I know from rolling with so many different people, some of the people who are the best just seem like they’re nerds, and they’re unbelievably smart, and they can systematize jiu-jitsu. So I wouldn’t be surprised if he was actually unbelievably good at it. But we’ll see. If you guys wanna tweet at him or… No, maybe he’s not on Twitter. Message him and say, hey, you gotta fight this guy…


0:17:02.6 Mike Vacanti: If you wanna message him on Facebook.


0:17:03.8 Jordan Syatt: Then let’s set it up. I will absolutely set it up. I’ll do it.


0:17:07.4 Mike Vacanti: So that was… You’re so good and just so aware and you really complimented Mark highly there. But the question was, could you beat him?


0:17:17.0 Jordan Syatt: I mean, there’s always a chance. I don’t know how long he’s been doing it. It’s hard to tell until you roll with someone.


0:17:23.2 Mike Vacanti: I see. Okay.


0:17:24.2 Jordan Syatt: You just don’t know. So I don’t know.


0:17:25.6 Mike Vacanti: Cool. That’s fair.


0:17:27.0 Jordan Syatt: I would like to think I could, considering I’ve been doing it for a while.


0:17:31.2 Mike Vacanti: I think you could. I have a pretty good idea of how that would go.


0:17:35.0 Jordan Syatt: What do you think?


0:17:35.6 Mike Vacanti: You guys would be moving around a little bit, and then on your first shot you’d get a single leg takedown and end up in his half guard, and then you would do some kinda… I know you’re not really a smash-and-passer, but I think you would smash and pass on Zuck. You’d have a lot…


0:17:55.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:17:57.0 Mike Vacanti: A lot of… Maybe not anger. But you’d smash and pass, you’d end up in side control, and then, yeah, and then good things would happen from there. That’s my prediction.


0:18:05.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude. I love that prediction. Well, I’ll tell you what. If we can make this fight happen, I will gladly fight. There is literally nothing that…


0:18:14.7 Mike Vacanti: For charity.


0:18:17.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, for charity. For sure. For charity and for glory.




0:18:25.0 Mike Vacanti: All right. I got an interesting one here from Jeff Jones. “Hello Jordan and Mike. My name is Jeff Jones. I’ve been listening to your podcast for 2 years now, and I must say that following the advice you both have given has helped me find a lot of success as a personal trainer.” Let’s go, Jeff.


0:18:39.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s awesome. Thank you, Jeff.


0:18:41.7 Mike Vacanti: All right. Jeff says, “Less on the business side, on the business end of things, as I don’t feel quite ready yet to start a business, but more as a personal trainer. Through following a lot of your advice, I’ve realized how much I truly love changing people’s lives. And for that, I am thankful.” I mean, Jeff, that is business, by the way. Becoming a great coach is probably the foundational, most important thing you can do for your business for the long run. But I’ll keep reading here. “My question for you is, how can I grow my business network and build more connections online? I know social media helps as well as posting articles, which is something I’m getting back into again. I’ve recently put a lot into my LinkedIn profile and began a podcast to start connecting with more potential clients and other professionals in the industry. Is this the right approach? And if so, how can I improve on it? If not, what should I be doing instead to grow my network?” Thanks so much for your time, Jeff.


0:19:37.7 Jordan Syatt: This is a really good question, and I’m gonna say something that I think nobody is expecting. Maybe, I don’t think Mike is expecting it. I don’t think we’ve spoken about this here on the podcast before. I think one of the best ways to… ‘Cause what we’re talking about is networking. That’s it right?


0:19:52.9 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:19:53.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s like networking, how to meet more people in the industry. I think one of the best ways to meet people in the industry and to develop great relationships with them is by going to fitness events in person. So whether it could be a certification. It’s funny, I would be more likely to tell someone to go to a certification for the networking aspect as opposed to like… Unless it’s an amazing certification, most certifications are not good. But I… Like, whether it’s a conference, like a perform-better conference, or the one I spoke at here in Dallas, The Raise the Bar Conference, which by the way, a lot of people from the mentorship went to and got to hang out in person and get to know each other even better. So these in-person conferences where a lot of coaches will go to learn and get better, that’s the best place. And that’s where, even now looking back on my career, early on in the first four to six years of my career where I was going to multiple of those every year, the vast majority of my network was built and remains built due to that, where just meeting those people there and having so many opportunities come from that.


0:21:05.4 Jordan Syatt: So I think if I could give you one piece of advice, it would be probably to get off the internet from that per… Or not get off, but just from a networking perspective, focus on in-person. And it’s like it’s more time consuming. It’s like how we say when someone starts coaching, they should coach in-person before they coach online. Similar, where you can still connect to people online, but there’s such a barrier with online. There’s like, I don’t know who you are, I don’t know what your intent is. Whereas, when you go in person, you’re all there to meet each other and you can sit down, you can have meals with them, speak with them, interact with them, whatever. There’s so much going on. I think that would be the best thing to do between one to four times a year. Go to a fitness conference and just hang out with other coaches for a weekend. It’s one of the best things you can do.


0:21:50.7 Mike Vacanti: Cool. What opportunities do you feel like, or maybe specifically came from those early days fitness conferences compared to the opportunities that have come from having a larger following?


0:22:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, it’s sort of hard to compare just because I don’t know… I can’t say which is which but I’ll give you an example. So for example, I just had Dr. Spencer Nadolsky on my podcast a couple of weeks ago in regard to the weight loss injections and the GLP-1s and all of that. I met Spencer at a fitness summit in 2014 or something, and I had seen him online. I think we had a couple of interactions, but we didn’t really become friends until one of these conferences. And then he also contributed to our book with a really incredible quote for the book. And I think that a relationship like that where, “Hey, what’s up, bro? I just wanna come on the podcast.” Where you can develop that relationship, all you do is text them and say, “Hey, do you want to come on?” As opposed to having to reach out via Instagram, hope that they see it, hope that they’re willing to reply. I think that those are invaluable…


0:23:04.5 Mike Vacanti: More depth.


0:23:06.6 Jordan Syatt: And that’s really what’s built… Yeah. Way more depth and more trust.


0:23:10.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:23:10.3 Jordan Syatt: And so who knows, there’s a chance that I could message someone and just because of my audience size, they just do it anyway, that that could be a real thing and… It’s not could be, it is a real thing. But I know for a fact that I had a lot of those opportunities before my audience grew. And I think that was in a large part due to just going and seeing people at these fitness summits.


0:23:34.9 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:23:35.8 Jordan Syatt: What about you? What do you think?


0:23:41.3 Mike Vacanti: I’ve never intentionally thought about networking and feel like I’m not good at it and don’t… Like I don’t have a good answer. David, don’t clip any of this. I definitely don’t have a Clips Nation answer around networking.


0:23:54.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re a great networker. You’re just not networking deliberately that… And that’s, I think, an important discussion, but keep going.


0:24:03.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I think generally speaking, my interest leads me more than wanting to form a connection with a specific person. And I don’t wanna put a judgment on it, and I know it’s great for business. I see Gary, I see like… There’s all these… Tim Ferris, “Your network is your net worth.” Never Eat Alone, Keith Ferrazi, who’s like an all time book that was very popular for many years. So I know all these people who are very successful in business place a lot of time and energy and emphasis and importance on networking. I’ve just never thought about it. Especially with regards to networking with peers. I would much rather earn the respect of people I’m helping than other people in my industry. Yeah, so I’m much more likely to want to seek out and form connections with people who I’m either interested in what they’re about or I’m impressed by what they’re doing, or I admire what they’re doing, whether that’s in or outside of fitness. Yeah.


0:25:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I think that makes total sense. Even though you care more about impressing the people that you’re helping and establishing a good relationship with them, you still would go to those summits and conferences, right? Or you would still do that stuff, right?


0:25:28.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m trying to…


0:25:29.4 Jordan Syatt: To educate yourself. It was more of an education thing, I would imagine.


0:25:34.8 Mike Vacanti: I went to a few. It was more like, “Okay, all of the coaches at the gym that I work at in person are going to this event. So we’re all going to this event.”


0:25:46.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yep.


0:25:47.2 Mike Vacanti: Or there was another one where it’s like… I went because Dick Talens, shout out Dick, Fitocracy, was my roommate at the time. And he’s like, “Dude, it’s an awesome summit. We’ll go, we’ll drink, we’ll have a great time. There’ll be lots of people there. It’ll be fun.” I was like, “Okay. I’ll tag along to this thing.” It was never… And I… Once there, I appreciated the educational component of it in listening to different talks and learning things, like listening to Tony G talk about the hip and shoulder, or I think that’s what his main talk… Whatever it was. I enjoyed that, but it was never like, I wanna go and meet these group of people and get in with this group of people, that feels unnecessary.


0:26:37.9 Jordan Syatt: Agreed. There’s a connotation with networking that I don’t think anyone really likes. They’re like… No one like, “Oh yeah, I’m going to network.” Whereas, if you’re going to learn and then to build relationships, that is, I think, the right way to look at it. If you go in… I always can tell who’s there for a “networking purpose”, because they approach the conversation from a very awkward way. It’s just like they walk right up, “So, so, tell me about yourself.” And like, “Oh, how do you structure?” It’s immediate… They’re not trying to build a real relationship, they’re trying to network, which I think is two very different things. I think having a network is as a result of building relationships. But if you go in to network, you won’t build relationships, and that’s the most important thing.


0:27:32.8 Jordan Syatt: So I think if you’re going there with the idea of like, “All right, I’m gonna go here, I need to speak with this many people a day. I need to really focus on making sure that they feel valued.” And if you go up to someone and say, “How can I bring you value?” You’re immediately tarnishing. When people say that to me, I’m immediately like, “I’m done. I’m done with this conversation.” ‘Cause what you’re really saying is, when you say, I wanna bring you value, you’re really saying, “I wanna give you enough of something that one day then you will repay me back with something else.” It’s like… So if going to these things for the purpose of education, for the purpose of, in other words, instead of saying networking, I would say making friends. It’s like, that’s it. Just make friends with people. If you don’t like them, then don’t pretend to like them. Or don’t try and network with them even if you don’t like them or agree with them. Find people who are like… That you like, that you agree with, that you think are good contributors to you and to your life, and you can contribute well to their life and make friendships with them. That’s all what… That’s all networking is, in my opinion.


0:28:33.2 Jordan Syatt: And what I’ve seen, I saw it with the generation before us in the fitness industry. I saw it in… I see it in our generation, and I also see it in the younger generations is, people create friendships. I think the most successful people create friendships with other people who are coming up at the same time. And so, eventually, if you have the staying power and you just don’t quit and you maintain these friendships while continuing to build your business, eventually, you’re gonna be the top of that generation in the fitness industry, and you’ll be friends with a lot of the other people that are also at the top around that time.


0:29:14.8 Jordan Syatt: And I’ve seen it again, from the people who were before us, our generation, and now after us who are up-and-comers. And it’s like, it’s really just, “Who are you friends with?” And oftentimes, you’re… The people who you’re the best friends with, that you meet in these conferences or you meet in something like the mentorship, we have a lot of people in the mentorship who they’re coaches, they’ve met each other, they’ve connected with each other, they travel to see each other, they collaborate with each other. Going into something with the ability to meet other people who have a similar goal. One might call that networking, another person might just call it just trying to make friends with similar interests. I think, if you have the mindset of trying to make friends with similar interests, it’s going to help you create a better network.


0:29:55.9 Mike Vacanti: I think that’s a good way of looking at it, and I think that that’s also true. But then this is not helpful at all for Jeff, but in my mind, I’m limited, and those like me, I would imagine, where the bigger your network, the more beneficial for business. But I don’t want that many new friends.


0:30:18.8 Jordan Syatt: [chuckle] And that’s okay.


0:30:19.7 Mike Vacanti: No, but so then it’s like, “Okay, you’re trying to go make new friends.” It’s like, “Nah, I don’t necessarily want that many new friends.” You’re laughing, but I have a lot of trust in the people who I’ve been friends with for years, if not decades, and new acquaintances, understood, happy to help people, but I’m not necessarily trying to go make a new best friend.


0:30:48.5 Jordan Syatt: Are you… Is this like a hypothetical or are you talking about yourself right now in this moment?


0:30:53.6 Mike Vacanti: Both.


0:30:53.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, the good news is, you’re not the one asking the questions. [laughter]


0:30:57.7 Mike Vacanti: I know. But I’m giving my opinion on networking, and I’ve never understood it, and I’m just airing out what I’m actually thinking. That’s something… In general, unless it’s a niche thing that I really feel like an expert in, I don’t wanna be giving… I like asking questions much more than giving advice or just sharing what I’m actually thinking.


0:31:20.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dude. 100%.


0:31:21.2 Mike Vacanti: What always worked for me was like, “Ignore this circle jerk, ignore this 25 person DM group.”


0:31:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Yes, yes.


0:31:30.8 Mike Vacanti: “We’re gonna like each other’s shit. We’re gonna comment emojis on each other’s shit. We’re gonna…” Whatever. I’d rather just interact with the people who I’m trying to help, make content, bring people to you. In one of Gary’s books, he… I’ve referenced this before, he talked about, if you don’t wanna go out there shaking hands and kissing babies, make amazing art, make amazing content, bring the people to you. That always spoke to me. But, yeah, Jeff, if you’re extroverted and feel like the podcast to meet people is a good idea, if you really wanna meet all those people, I think it’s a wonderful idea.


0:32:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you ever watch Curb Your Enthusiasm?


0:32:13.1 Mike Vacanti: I’ve watched a… I think it’s slightly overrated, but I’ve watched 20 episodes.


0:32:17.7 Jordan Syatt: When you were like, “I don’t wanna make new friends. I’m good with who I’ve got.” You reminded me of Larry David immensely in that moment. You’re like, “I don’t know. I don’t want new friends. I don’t wanna meet new people. I don’t like people. I’m good with what I’ve got.” [laughter]


0:32:31.4 Mike Vacanti: Do you ever feel like if someone’s trying to be your friend? We’ll just leave this.


0:32:40.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:32:40.9 Mike Vacanti: We got more questions.


0:32:41.7 Jordan Syatt: But we’ll… No, that’s the thing. It’s like…


0:32:43.3 Mike Vacanti: They just want something from you?


0:32:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Yes. It’s… And that’s the whole… It’s the whole intent. If you’re going there to try to make friends, to try and get them in your network, it’s botched from the beginning.


0:32:54.3 Mike Vacanti: But we’re talking about networking? [chuckle]


0:32:55.9 Jordan Syatt: I know, but that’s why I’m saying, go to these conferences to learn and then naturally make friendships with people. And that will become your network. I’m not saying go there with a fucking notepad of all the people you wanna meet, figuring out all their interests and trying to like to befriend them so that then they can benefit you down the road. ‘Cause if you do that, then it’s ruined before you even start. But if you go there to learn or you join the mentorship to learn, and then you’re in an area with people who have similar interests and you naturally make friendships, that’s how a network is built.


0:33:28.3 Jordan Syatt: But, then you’re saying, but what if I don’t wanna fucking make friends? Then you could go to these conferences and not talk to anybody, you could join the mentorship and not interact with anybody, and just study it by yourself and do your own thing and that’s also totally fine. But from answering Jeff’s question, it’s like, it seemed like the question was largely based around how do I meet these people? And I’m saying meeting them online is often not the best way. Going and meeting in person I think is the… ‘Cause online you can copy, paste, just send to a bunch of people, whatever it is they do, it’s very difficult. But when you’re in person, you get real quality time. I think if you want to build relationships with people in person is better than online.


0:34:08.4 Mike Vacanti: I agree with that. I think that’s good advice. And Jeff, I would just urge you to listen to Jordan on this subject and not me. And if you’re gonna run this back, just skip over the parts where I was talking. I think that’s probably optimal when it comes to networking.


0:34:20.9 Jordan Syatt: “I don’t want any friends.”




0:34:21.5 Mike Vacanti: You…


0:34:22.2 Jordan Syatt: “I’ve got enough friends.”


0:34:26.0 Mike Vacanti: You can’t relate to that.


0:34:26.6 Jordan Syatt: “I don’t even like my friends.”




0:34:27.9 Mike Vacanti: No, I love my friends, but like, you know?


0:34:35.5 Jordan Syatt: Ah, that was so good.


0:34:39.1 Mike Vacanti: A question for the podcast, if you don’t mind. This is from Justin. “I’m starting my online coaching business. I also work a 9 to 5 and I’m working on my content/brand. I am GaryVee-ing it, working on posting daily [chuckle] free content to help people.” Veetards.


0:34:55.5 Jordan Syatt: Shout out to the Veetards.


0:34:56.3 Mike Vacanti: “I’m planning on starting a podcast.”




0:35:00.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s a little, VeeCon inside joke. A little nice comedy show this past weekend which was a… Should we talk? Actually talk about that? VeeCon was really, really fun.


0:35:10.7 Jordan Syatt: Did you have fun?


0:35:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was an awesome event.


0:35:13.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow. You saw… I know you saw Andrew Schulz who coined that term.


0:35:18.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. The Veetards.


0:35:18.5 Jordan Syatt: The Veetards.




0:35:19.2 Mike Vacanti: Well then he posted it on his Instagram so people might have seen it.


0:35:22.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:35:23.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, he was, he was hilarious. Just like nonstop high quality speakers going on the whole time. The venue was sweet. They’re like… It was really fun. And I talked to a bunch of people. One podcast listener, couple of people who read, Eat It! Like that was cool.


0:35:42.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice.


0:35:42.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t think I told you about that, but just like seeing Vayner people I hadn’t seen in a while, and Gary just crushed… I told you his closing speech reminded me of the “Stop Watching Fucking Lost.” Like “Patience, Passion…”


0:35:56.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:35:57.0 Mike Vacanti: Like that kind of energy. It was really well done. But that where the Veetards comes from.


0:36:02.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s awesome. That sounds super fun. So you did some networking there?


0:36:06.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m just burnt out from all of the networking that do…


0:36:08.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:36:08.4 Mike Vacanti: Do you know what it is?


0:36:09.2 Jordan Syatt: You’re definitely burned out from all the networking over there.


0:36:11.7 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s… That’s actually who I am. But do you know what part of it is?




0:36:15.4 Mike Vacanti: I really struggle to have long duration, short form, like 5 to 15 minutes small talk conversations over and over again. And it’s…


0:36:27.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. It’s tiring.


0:36:27.1 Mike Vacanti: And it’s hard to go deep. You know what, back to Justin, if you’re gonna have a podcast, you can go deep in a 90 minute conversation one-on-one. So maybe that is different.


0:36:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:36:36.0 Mike Vacanti: Meet people in person, invite to podcasts. Cool. But just that small talk really wears on me.


0:36:46.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude, I agree. The small talk is the worst. That’s why it’s like, I like when you meet someone at these events, go out to lunch and get to know them as opposed to trying to go up to everybody and have these like… I’d rather you meet four people and have like long conversations with those four people than meet 28 people and know nothing real about them.


0:37:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And we should normalize zone one and a half cardio meetings where you go on like…


0:37:16.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, love that.


0:37:16.6 Mike Vacanti: You go on like not quite a zoned to, but like a nice walk for 45 to 60 minutes and get some real steps in and some UV and have an in-depth conversation.


0:37:26.0 Jordan Syatt: That’d be a really cool concept for a podcast. I’d be surprised if someone doesn’t have it yet. But like where they walk while they’re doing the podcast.


0:37:33.3 Mike Vacanti: I wonder how the audio… I guess, and then have a videographer…


0:37:37.6 Jordan Syatt: Remember…


0:37:38.8 Mike Vacanti: Like walking and staying out in front of them.


0:37:39.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:37:39.6 Mike Vacanti: That’d be kind of sick.


0:37:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’d be cool. Right?


0:37:43.0 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh.


0:37:43.8 Jordan Syatt: Out in nature or something. Like in the woods.


0:37:46.0 Mike Vacanti: Let’s start that.


0:37:47.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, let’s do that.


0:37:48.3 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:37:49.3 Jordan Syatt: So, what was Justin’s question?


0:37:51.6 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I’m sorry. So that was Jeff I was referencing on the networking. Justin’s question [chuckle].. All over the place. We’re doing an AM podcast. Jordan and I both rolled out of bed to crush this thing. Weekly uploads, Tuesday morning. By the way, we have an agreement here, it’s the gentle person’s agreement. If you are not subscribed to the YouTube channel, please subscribe. You know, we make these podcasts for free. We don’t run ads here. And so, if you’re listening to this right now, Personal Trainer Podcast, we make the content, you just click the subscribe button, that’s it. You don’t have to click the notifications. Notifications are bad for your soul. You don’t wanna get those push-throughs on your phone, like none of that. But just the subscribe button on YouTube, @personaltrainerpodcast. And we’ll continue making these weekly free episodes.


0:38:34.5 Jordan Syatt: Right hook. Right hook.


0:38:39.3 Mike Vacanti: Do you right hook like this or like this?


0:38:40.8 Jordan Syatt: The first way.


0:38:41.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, me too.


0:38:42.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, well that’s ’cause we were taught in boxing gyms. I think the right way to hook is with your palm facing in.


0:38:48.9 Mike Vacanti: I’ve been taught both ways.


0:38:50.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, have you?


0:38:51.3 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh.


0:38:51.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting.


0:38:52.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s harder to like get the rotation for the palm down, though.


0:38:55.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I feel like it’d be more dangerous for the wrist too.


0:38:58.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t remember what the reason was. I think maybe… I don’t remember. Let’s continue answering… This is a… We’re all over the place. Justin is planning… So he’s is GaryVee-ing it. He’s planning to start a podcast. “I enjoy long form content the most and it serves as both long form and clips.” Love it, Justin. “However, I’m feeling insecure/imposter syndrome with my ability to help people. This comes out the most when I think about starting my podcast in YouTube channel, as I don’t feel qualified to talk about the things I want to.” Hmm. “I’ve been training hard and nerding out about training for a decade now, and I really do believe I can help people, which is why I love coaching in the first place. I know my knowledge isn’t anywhere near yours, but it’s also more than most people, gen pop or even some athletes. And I know I can reach people that otherwise won’t be reached, and can impact people’s lives. I’ve had some Instagram DMs already from some people I’ve helped. Any tips for the imposter syndrome/feeling unqualified in a world full of more qualified people? Justin.”


0:40:06.5 Jordan Syatt: Man. So, great question. I appreciate everything. The last sentence really struck me and the way that you phrased it. You said, how to deal with imposter syndrome in a world of people who… How to deal with imposter syndrome and feeling unqualified in a world in which there are so many people who are more qualified. To that effect, right?


0:40:24.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:40:24.8 Jordan Syatt: What’s interesting is you’re focusing on the people who are more qualified and not focusing on the people who are significantly less qualified than you. Right? And if we’re looking at the population of the world, there are significantly fewer people who are more educated than you on this, and significantly more people who know way less than you on this. Like way less. If we’re just looking at overall population, way more people don’t know anywhere near as much as you. But it’s funny how you’re focusing on the small percentage of people who do know more than you. And I think that’s causing the imposter syndrome, that’s causing the stress and anxiety around it. And I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again, I think the best way to overcome imposter syndrome is don’t present yourself as an expert if you don’t believe that you’re an expert yet.


0:41:15.3 Jordan Syatt: You don’t have to go onto your Instagram and say like, yeah… You don’t have to have like, “I’m a NASM, ACE PT certified coach. I know everything, like da da da da. Here’s the truth about this.” What you can say is this. You can say, “Listen, I’m a new coach. I love doing this. I have a lot more that I want to learn, but over the years that I’ve been coaching, I’ve already learned a lot and my clients have gotten amazing results, and I know for a fact that I can help you. So what I’m gonna do on this social media is I’m going to give you information based off of my current knowledge that will hopefully help you achieve your goals if you stick with it. I’ve been wrong in the past, I guarantee I’ll be wrong in the future, and when I make a mistake, I’m gonna do my absolute best to correct it and let you know.”


0:42:00.7 Jordan Syatt: But when you start presenting yourself in this way, essentially as a forever student, the imposter syndrome goes away, ’cause you’re no longer trying to live up to the expectation that you put on yourself that you are an expert. Now you’re just saying, “I’m a student of the game. I’ve been doing this for a really long time. I hope this helps.” And that’s it. And then like if you are shown to be wrong at some point, cool, you say, “Hey, you know what? I made a mistake.” I’ve said that a million times. But if you’re not wrong, then cool, you’re speaking from your experience and from your knowledge.


0:42:31.3 Jordan Syatt: So I think that the worst thing you can do from an imposter syndrome perspective is pretend like you’re an expert when you’re not. And one of the best things that I’ve been able to do, even as I’ve grown in the industry, is I’ve recognized when people are more knowledgeable than me in certain areas, and then I’ll ask them questions and I’ll reference them, or I’ll bring like… Like I said, Dr. Nadolsky and Dr. Belardo on my podcast to discuss the weight loss injections, because that’s not my specialty. It is Dr. Nadolsky’s specialty. He’s an obesity medicine specialist, so he knows way more about these GLP-1 inhibitors than I do, so let’s bring him on and talk to him about it. Let’s bring Dr. Belardo on and talk to her about it. Let’s… Even, for example, I hired Alex Viada to do my programming. I know how to do programming. I’m very well aware. But I hire new coaches once every year, year and a half or so, so that I can learn from them. Now I’m about to hire @hunterfitness. Jeez, I can’t believe I’m forgetting his name. He’s gonna be so pissed at me that I’m forgetting his name right now.


0:43:38.1 Mike Vacanti: Oh, Super Flexible?


0:43:39.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Super… Yeah.


0:43:40.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. He’s a really good dude.


0:43:42.8 Jordan Syatt: Hunter Cook. Hunter Cook. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really good guy. I’m gonna hire him next, because I want to improve my dexterity and ability to move within a greater range of motion. So I’m always hiring people who are better than me in other areas so that I can learn from them. So, again, I think a lot of coaches who struggle with imposter syndrome, they want to appear as though they are the expert. Or maybe I put the wrong emphasis on the wrong word. They are the expert. I was like, They “are” the expert. They are “the” expert. So stop trying to be the expert. Just be a student that’s helping people. I think it’s a much better way to go about it.


0:44:23.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You nailed it there.


0:44:24.9 Jordan Syatt: Railed it.




0:44:26.2 Mike Vacanti: No, you nailed it. That’s not what a rail is. [laughter] Be okay with… It’s been too long since you used that, we forgot the definition. Be okay with being wrong. Be okay with saying, “I don’t know.” Say “I don’t know” a lot. Be honest, and don’t position yourself as an expert, and that’s gonna help you avoid a lot of that imposter syndrome. It’s also very important to know that, like Jordan mentioned, the way you positioned it, of looking towards these people who know more than you, which is a minority of the population, whereas the overwhelming majority of the population doesn’t know as much as you and you could potentially help. Your communication style and the way you phrase things and the way that you speak and the words that you use all matter a lot in terms of if someone’s gonna stop and listen to what you’re saying, right? There might be someone way smarter than you that is just gonna get scrolled over because for a number of reasons, right? Here’s an example…


0:45:26.2 Mike Vacanti: Jordan, who’s better at anatomy, you or Eric Cressey?


0:45:30.8 Jordan Syatt: Eric Cressey.


0:45:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Okay, would you say that there are people who like the way that you talk and explain things and bring your sense of humor to the table that maybe wouldn’t have read one of Eric’s articles, but that will watch your Instagram video?


0:45:44.3 Jordan Syatt: 100%.


0:45:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, so case in point, there are going to be people who want the information from you. Even if they could get that information or slightly better information from someone who’s smarter than you, they’re not going to resonate with the way that that person communicates, or something else about the person. So basically you don’t have to be the smartest person to help people, is what I’m trying to say.


0:46:11.1 Jordan Syatt: I love that. I love that, you nailed it.


0:46:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I nailed it. I did nail it. [chuckle] Emphasis on nail. Coach Grim, who is an ex pro hockey referee. And I believe…


0:46:28.9 Jordan Syatt: Whoa.


0:46:30.1 Mike Vacanti: I am just paraphrasing this one. I think the email was a little longer. But the gist of it was, should you make multiple social media accounts for each niche or put them all under one account? And his examples were his personal fitness journey as a dad, and then having a brand account with high performance related content.


0:46:51.5 Jordan Syatt: No. Same account.


0:46:53.6 Mike Vacanti: And we’ll even go broader with this question, ’cause it’s one that we often get in the mentorship and when people are just starting their online coaching business is, should I start a new social media handle for my business or should I use my current personal whatever it is, Instagram handle, Facebook page, etcetera?


0:47:14.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, same account. I mean, it’s hard enough to post on one, never mind multiple. It’s hard enough to grow one, never mind multiple. And the reality is a lot of people think that they want to separate their business from their personal life or their personal journey, and if you want to not share anything about your personal life or your personal journey, then that’s fine, but make one account that doesn’t include your personal life or your personal journey. Whereas what I think is more important is if you’re gonna have… If you think you want one account for your personal life and another account for not your personal life, your personal journey in fitness, you’re completely misunderstanding one of the most important parts of why people want to work with you, which is you. And sort of like what you were just talking about, Mike, where some people will like you and not someone else, and you could have the exact same information or the other person might have better information, but they just feel close to you, they resonate with you. Your personal journey now more than ever is incredibly important and a very important part of your content and your education.


0:48:23.1 Jordan Syatt: When there were only like Men’s Health and Women’s Health, and Men’s Fitness and Women’s Fitness, and there were these big companies, that stuff wasn’t as important because they were just big companies and people just bought from the big brand names. Now, people buy from individuals. They buy from the person that they see, that they like, that they want to support. They buy from the mother that they resonate with. They buy from the father that they resonate with. They buy from the guy or woman in the gym that they resonate with. Yes, their information and knowledge matters, but their personality and their personal life also matters, I would say equally, if not maybe even more. I think now more than ever, I think someone resonating with you as an individual, you know what, it’s not even a question. Someone resonating with you as an individual is more important than your knowledge, which in some ways isn’t a good thing, but it’s just the truth. So don’t separate them. Have it all on one account and post both.


0:49:19.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Nailed it. Especially, Coach Grim, because both of the things that you’re talking about are somewhat closely related. Fitness journey as a dad and high performance related account, or high performance related content. So they go hand in hand and they don’t even necessarily have to, meaning if you… Gary’s interested in the Jets. He talks about the Jets in like one or two percent of his content, and it’s a nice little thing that people know about him and know that he’s interested in, know that he’s passionate about, and like football fans can relate and have that conversation with him. Like, yeah. People are gonna hire you for who you are as a person, and so showing who you are as a person in your content is gonna be good for business.


0:50:08.8 Jordan Syatt: You want to know… I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone this. I definitely haven’t told you this, Mike. I think you’ll find this story interesting. A lot of people, they don’t know what to talk about, especially if it’s personal stuff, maybe outside of their own fitness journey, which is very important to share, but use personal stuff. ‘Cause like, What do I say, what do I do? Well, number one, I think just simply just show what you’re doing. But if… You know how I have like the cheat sheet for getting over writer’s block, just write about whatever like pisses you off.


0:50:37.4 Jordan Syatt: So I used to do something. I don’t know why I used to do this. I did this when I was a kid. I used to do this in the car when my mom was driving me and potentially my brother to like some type of an event or a party where I didn’t wanna go, but like there were gonna be people there and I wanted to get myself in a mental place to like speak with people and be energetic, like where I didn’t wanna go. So for whatever reason, when I was a kid, I was like, “How do I get in like a really good mental place? I’m just going to start thinking of things that I love and thinking of things that I hate.” And then saying it out loud, like, “Do you know what I love? Like, I love… ” Or, “You know what I hate?” And I remember being like, when I was a kid I loved the smell of exhausts. I was like, “You know what I love? Just love the smell of exhausts.” Did you ever like that smell when you were a kid?


0:51:24.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Uh-huh.


0:51:26.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s weird, right? So. And I would just start thinking of random things that I either loved or that I hated, and I’d get really passionate about those things, and I would just try and quickly come up with them. And the reason I say this is because if you don’t know what to say, just think of something that you love or you hate and just talk about it. And the one thing that comes to mind is, in the mentorship, Ben Cure, he just goes on his social media, he’s like, “I fucking hate soup. Soup isn’t a real food. Soup sucks.” And he’s like… And people are like, “Wait, is it not healthy?” He’s like, “No, it’s totally healthy.” He’s just like, “But soup sucks. I don’t eat soup. Fuck soup.” And it’s just funny because it brings out things that… A little bit more about you, in a relatively effortless way, that often people will find endearing or they’ll… And then I guarantee Ben probably gets messages about soup all the time, and it’s a huge inside joke with his audience. And so, could be something you hate, could be something you love, could be a sports team. Like Susan… It was funny, Susan was on my podcast yesterday and I asked her what’s a big pet peeve, or something, and she just said, “Fuck the Cowboys.” The Dallas Cowboys.




0:52:29.0 Jordan Syatt: The first thing that came to her mind. And I think there’s something about… Or Susan and her cat. Her cats in general, but Fred specifically, she posts about Fred. Posting about things you love or things that you hate is a very easy way just for people to get to know you better. And if you’re not sure how to show more of yourself, just talk about that stuff. And it shouldn’t make up a huge part of your content, but just a little bit, and it’s enough for people to, “All right, I’m getting to know you a little bit. That’s interesting about you,” these endearing little things that you love or you hate that… Things that you’ll notice in your boyfriends or girlfriends, husbands or wives, whatever it is, or your family members, little things that you just find endearing about them, based on things that they love or they hate, or little quirks that they have. These are things that often draw us to people.


0:53:17.8 Mike Vacanti: I like that. That’s good. That’s a nice practical piece of advice.


0:53:21.4 Jordan Syatt: Just made it up right there. [chuckle]


0:53:22.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, and learning about the inner workings of Jordan prior to the age of 22 are hilarious for me. [laughter] Used to call random numbers on road trips and try and make ’em like me.




0:53:38.6 Mike Vacanti: So good.


0:53:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, man.


0:53:40.6 Mike Vacanti: Great stuff, man. Good AM pod.


0:53:43.0 Jordan Syatt: Do you have any tips or advice on that?


0:53:45.1 Mike Vacanti: On posting personal… It’s similar to the networking question. I’m just… Yeah, we can talk about it…




0:54:00.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m really bad at understanding consumer behavior. Meaning, in my mind I’m like, why would anyone care about what I love or what I hate? Because I don’t care that much about what random people on the internet love and hate, but I know that lots of people do care about that. So I like your advice, just don’t really have much to add.


0:54:26.2 Jordan Syatt: No, I think you do. You’ve sent me someone else’s schedule before. Like someone posted their schedule, you’ll send me the practical stuff that they care about.


0:54:33.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s something that I’m learning from that I wanna implement in my life, that I think can make me better, that I think is a good idea, that I think is an optimal way to live.


0:54:41.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:54:41.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s not like… Continue to give me examples, because I’m curious if I really do like or…


0:54:48.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I think it’s like a… I think if there’s someone that you look up to or admire or you like a lot of what they say, you’ll get even a closer connection to them if they show an interest in something that you also show an interest in.


0:55:07.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna press you for an example, even if it makes me look bad.


0:55:11.7 Jordan Syatt: All right, let me… I’m trying to think of one.


0:55:13.8 Mike Vacanti: Or I can even bring up random characters who I bring up to you and then…


0:55:19.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let’s do that.


0:55:23.0 Mike Vacanti: Like a Sahil.


0:55:24.5 Jordan Syatt: Well, yeah. So I mean, for example, I think Sahil showing his family is like something that… But if it was just him, it’s one thing, but to show that he’s a family man, husband, father, I think that immediately makes you like him more or trust him more, or. I think it gives you a little bit more insight into like, okay, this guy is doing this for the… I don’t know, but I think showing that side does bring you closer to him.


0:55:50.9 Mike Vacanti: This is an incredible example, because I think that him showing his family and that he’s a family man does do what you just said for most people. For me, I’m interested in his ideas, I’m interested in his newsletter, I’m interested in the practical things I can apply. When I see him showing his family, I’m thinking, “Oh, this is interesting branding.” That’s where my mind goes on that. ‘Cause he’s so smart and…


0:56:18.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:56:18.8 Mike Vacanti: And he’s said it, he’s like, “How can we fight against AI in the future?” It’s like, “Well, the one thing that we have that robots don’t have is that we’re human.” So if we can share… The more personal and human side of us that we can share, the more we’re gonna be able to connect and relate to others. But I don’t… I’m not interested… Bless his heart and super cute kid, but I’m not interested in seeing Sahil’s kid on his Instagram story, whereas I am very interested in, like the article that he read that was really impactful or something, I feel like I can benefit from them.


0:56:52.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I get it.


0:56:54.8 Mike Vacanti: Look, we don’t need to make this segment all about me. I know that…


0:56:58.1 Jordan Syatt: Or Sahil.




0:57:01.7 Mike Vacanti: Well, you could give another example, but I… Look, people do really resonate with the personal things that we share about ourselves online, and so I agree that it makes sense to do it, even if I can’t understand why people care about those things.


0:57:21.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.




0:57:26.5 Jordan Syatt: I still think you connect to people online through those things. Maybe even like the Staples brothers.


0:57:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Yep.


0:57:32.1 Jordan Syatt: Right, where it’s like the Staples brothers, there are a lot of people who do poker online, but you’re not as connected to them as you are someone like the Staple brothers or…


0:57:43.4 Mike Vacanti: They were clients and I traveled the world…


0:57:44.6 Jordan Syatt: Well, obviously ’cause you coached them.


0:57:46.1 Mike Vacanti: No, I’ll give you…


0:57:46.5 Jordan Syatt: But even before you coached them.


0:57:48.8 Mike Vacanti: I’ll give you a poker example. Like Phil Ivey or Tom Dwan were like real poker titans who I liked following and who I looked up to in poker.


0:58:03.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m pretty sure I remember Phil Ivey from the World Series of Poker.


0:58:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, yeah. Yeah, but…


0:58:11.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:58:11.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t… Do they have families? Are they dating anyone? Like I don’t even know these things, but the hand where durrrr three bet with eight, nine of clubs and then triple barrel bluff, and Ivey had the A6 suited and like almost called with bottom pair? Like, I’ll spend hours thinking about how did he almost call that $268,000 bet on the river with a pair of sixes on like this King Queen Jack board, and durrrr was bluff… Like, that interests me more than what kind of ice cream does Tom Dwan like.


0:58:42.5 Jordan Syatt: But like obviously you care more about that than like what ice cream he likes, but I think seeing what ice cream he likes makes you care even more about his performance subsequently.


0:58:54.5 Mike Vacanti: For most people, I think that’s right.


0:58:56.1 Jordan Syatt: Well, all right, for example, Conor McGregor. Did you finish the documentary, right?


0:59:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Yes. Yep. He’s a beast.


0:59:01.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay, so he’s a beast. You think he’s a beast not just because of his fights and the results of his fights, but because you saw what happened behind the scenes now.


0:59:10.8 Mike Vacanti: You’re taking it somewhere different.


0:59:12.1 Jordan Syatt: You think he’s even…


0:59:13.1 Mike Vacanti: We’re on things I like…


0:59:13.6 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:59:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Things I like and things I hate.


0:59:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Right, right, right. But now you can see him behind the scenes, right? So it’s not just watching his performance in the octagon, which is like the performance of the poker player playing that, whatever it is. It’s not just that. It’s also the preparation before that, what’s going on in his life behind the scenes.


0:59:33.0 Mike Vacanti: Because I admire it and I want to apply it. It’s not…


0:59:34.0 Jordan Syatt: But that’s exactly what I’m saying.


0:59:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Its not does he like…


0:59:38.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s not just things that you like or hate.


0:59:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:59:40.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s just, I think it’s behind the scenes. And when people are like, “Well, I don’t know what to show the behind the scenes of,” my quick fix was talk about things you like or you hate. That’s just one simple way to get the juices flowing.


0:59:53.7 Mike Vacanti: And I think that’s really good.


0:59:54.4 Jordan Syatt: I should have been more clear, like…


0:59:55.3 Mike Vacanti: I think people do care about that.




1:00:00.6 Jordan Syatt: But you don’t.


1:00:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Correct. Correct. I like seeing how he acted after losing, because I feel like that’s something I can learn from and apply and benefit in my… I like seeing his training schedule and seeing how many hours a day and what he’s doing in terms of striking versus being on the mats versus cardio, seeing him on the rower, all this stuff, how he trains around injury. But these are all practical things that I can glean from and apply to benefit myself, not just interest in like… It’s like celebrity culture. Most people care about celebrities in some way. Like People Magazine sells millions of issues. People, “oh, Kim Kardashian’s just like us, she walks down the street and goes shopping and whatever.” People really pay money to see this shit.


1:00:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, people care about that. Yeah, yeah.


1:00:53.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s where the consumer behavior, where I, if I wanted to succeed in business, I would need to separate consumer behavior from my own perspective on things and then act in a way that aligns with consumer behavior, which I think Gary is the goat at. But I genuinely, no disrespect, don’t care about those things.


1:01:12.2 Jordan Syatt: So I think we’re saying very similar things. But, so for example, with Conor.


1:01:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


1:01:20.6 Jordan Syatt: I think Conor’s a great example, because we just watched the whole documentary all about him and behind the scenes. And I think what I’m trying to say is it’s the behind the scenes stuff that people actually do care about, but they won’t really care about that until they know you care about them or until you’re already invested in them. So especially early on, people aren’t really gonna care very much about the behind the scenes. But once you start to develop an audience and people know how much you care and how hard you work, now all of a sudden they’re really gonna care about the behind the scenes. If Conor didn’t become Conor, then we wouldn’t care about… There probably wouldn’t be much of a story and we wouldn’t care as much about the behind the scenes. But because Conor became who he was and then had that devastating injury where his ankle just came off of his entire leg and it just shattered dramatically.


1:02:09.7 Jordan Syatt: And then he was sitting down on the canvas with Joe Rogan and having this massive meltdown and hearing all the stuff that he’s saying, well now we wanna know why was he saying that? And he explains that. He said, “Well, listen, all the adrenaline dump and I was so pissed after all… ” And now you can understand it even more because you saw, leading up to the fight, that there were real issues with that leg and that he was told that it was gonna be okay and all this stuff, and then it just fucking snaps off. And now I think you’re even more invested in his journey. Like I think he’s now… People care more about a potential next fight, whether it’s with Chandler or whomever because of getting this backstory. And actually I’ll never forget. I remember sitting in the car with Gary. I don’t think I told you this story. During my three years with Gary and he told me, he’s like, “Yeah, I want you to come on this ride with me.” And I didn’t know why.


1:03:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Did you think you were in trouble?


1:03:00.4 Jordan Syatt: So I gave him his protein shake, got in the car with him. No, I didn’t think I was in trouble. I think he just wanted to hang out. Like, sometimes he just likes to have people around. So, and all of a sudden he’s like, I’m about to get on the phone with Dana White. And he got on a call with Dana White. And it was a conference call with the UFC in general. It wasn’t just Dana, there was a number of people. But they were talking about… Gary was giving the UFC advice on how to get more people interested in the fighters. And he was saying, “You know what you should do?” He’s like, “You should do vlogs.” Which they do now. “But in the vlogs, you should get also vlogs of the fighters’ family and the fighters’ wives.”


1:03:38.0 Mike Vacanti: To get women interested.


1:03:38.5 Jordan Syatt: He’s like, “Do you know how to get a regular person’s wife, a guy’s wife, interested in the UFC? Get them to see stuff about that fighter’s wife. What they’re wearing, what they’re doing, what they’re eating, all that stuff.” And so I’m not saying you’re interested in that, but what I’m saying is you are interested in other behind the scenes aspects, like the preparation to the journey, like their mindset going into the journey, why Conor said the things he did after his ankle broke off, giving more insight into his training that leads you to care even more about him and the result of what he’s doing, just because you do have those behind the scenes now.


1:04:16.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m not gonna fight you on this. We’ll agree to disagree on this one.




1:04:21.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


1:04:21.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t care what kind of… We did talk about that. I didn’t know you were in the car for that conversation. But I remember talking about that with you and Gary, and like bringing in players’ wives, fighters’ wives, into content because then dude fans’ girlfriends, wives will be more interested in seeing that. Like that makes complete sense to me.


1:04:43.3 Jordan Syatt: And then they’ll get excited to see them in the crowd and all that.


1:04:45.7 Mike Vacanti: Consumer behavior. Yeah, see them in the crowd, see what kind of dress are they wearing, did they link it on their Instagram, I’m gonna buy that dress too. Like fully…


1:04:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


1:04:53.7 Mike Vacanti: Fully get that. And I agree that that is how most people act. And so I think we should behave accordingly.


1:05:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Got it, got it.


1:05:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Sick, bro.


1:05:01.2 Jordan Syatt: Sick podcast, brother.


1:05:03.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m about to go hit a lift.


1:05:04.3 Jordan Syatt: Go get it, man.


1:05:05.2 Mike Vacanti: All right.


1:05:06.2 Jordan Syatt: Thank you everyone for listening. Have a wonderful week and we’ll talk to you next week.


1:05:10.3 Mike Vacanti: See you next week.

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