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In this episode, we discuss the science behind the trending weight loss injections. We talk about their pros and cons, who could potentially benefit from them, who absolutely should not use them, and much more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.5 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:13.7 Mike Vacanti: What’s up, my brother?


0:00:15.0 Jordan Syatt: My brother.


0:00:16.0 Mike Vacanti: What you drinking?


0:00:17.4 Jordan Syatt: Little ice water.


0:00:19.2 Mike Vacanti: Bro, tattoo looking nice.


0:00:21.3 Jordan Syatt: Can you see it?


0:00:21.9 Mike Vacanti: I could for a second there. Now I can’t. It went away.


0:00:25.1 Jordan Syatt: Thank you, bro. Thank you. Yeah. I’m very, very happy with it.


0:00:29.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.


0:00:30.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m stoked. Yeah. The guy did an amazing job.


0:00:32.4 Mike Vacanti: It looks incredible.


0:00:34.4 Jordan Syatt: Are you getting one or are you just still removing?


0:00:36.5 Mike Vacanti: No. I’m actually not even removing. I’m done removing.


0:00:41.2 Jordan Syatt: Really? Is it gone?


0:00:42.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, basically.


0:00:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Where was it?


0:00:45.2 Mike Vacanti: On my wrist.


0:00:46.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it was here, not here. It was here?


0:00:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:00:49.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I can’t see it. Man, that’s crazy. Dude, was that painful?


0:00:52.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But small, so didn’t really matter.


0:00:56.6 Jordan Syatt: How long was each session of removing it?


0:01:00.6 Mike Vacanti: 15 seconds.


0:01:00.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s it? Just one click, click, click, that’s it?


0:01:04.4 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm.


0:01:04.8 Jordan Syatt: And were you like…




0:01:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Did you like do that or no?


0:01:07.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but I… I wanted to do that, but I didn’t do that.


0:01:12.0 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay. Wow…


0:01:12.5 Mike Vacanti: I felt that.


0:01:14.8 Jordan Syatt: Really?


0:01:15.9 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm.


0:01:17.0 Jordan Syatt: Man. That’s crazy. Okay. So, and it hurt more than getting the tattoo?


0:01:22.0 Mike Vacanti: Substantially. By a lot.


0:01:26.2 Jordan Syatt: Wow. That’s crazy. Okay.


0:01:28.5 Mike Vacanti: But that took a very long time, right?


0:01:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It was like six hours of actual tattooing.


0:01:34.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So that’s… I would imagine, there’s something to the how long you’re doing it that contributes to the pain, whereas removal, even on a bigger piece is, takes way less time than actually creating it.


0:01:49.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s so crazy to me. Wow. Cool.


0:01:52.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, man. What’s happening?


0:01:55.2 Jordan Syatt: Just chilling, dude. We just finished one podcast. We’re ripping another one. We just finished the…


0:02:00.5 Mike Vacanti: Back-to-back.


0:02:00.8 Jordan Syatt: The Power Breakfast Pod, if you listened to that last week. Now we’re embarking on a new podcast journey.


0:02:06.7 Mike Vacanti: We’re on a podcast journey. We upload weekly indefinitely.


0:02:11.7 Jordan Syatt: Without exception.


0:02:12.9 Mike Vacanti: Whether we feel like it or not.


0:02:14.7 Jordan Syatt: We really turned a corner on that. Because there was a period of time where we’d be on, we’d be off. Man, we’ve been so consistent, it’s pretty cool.


0:02:22.2 Mike Vacanti: I know. Maybe we should go back to our old ways.


0:02:25.6 Jordan Syatt: Be inconsistent for a bit?




0:02:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Play a little hard to get? “Oh, you want us? Got it. Okay. Alright. Well, we’ll see.” [chuckle]


0:02:35.7 Mike Vacanti: No. We got ’em scheduled out. I think the weekly uploads will be a thing for a while.


0:02:42.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I like doing multiple back-to-back, because I feel like right when we get to the end of the conversation of the first podcast, that’s when I’m really getting really into it, and then when we stop it, I’m like, “Oh man, now I gotta stop talking?” Yeah.


0:02:58.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s what being an extrovert is.


0:03:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I feel like it’s reverse for you.


0:03:02.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Like this…




0:03:06.5 Mike Vacanti: If you’re listening on audio…


0:03:06.6 Jordan Syatt: On YouTube, you saw the…


0:03:08.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.




0:03:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m learning the ESTP ways.


0:03:13.3 Jordan Syatt: What have we got planned for this pod?


0:03:16.6 Mike Vacanti: What are you seeing right now in the industry, in the zeitgeist? What are you seeing out there on social media?


0:03:22.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I love that word. I always forget that word until you say it.


0:03:25.9 Mike Vacanti: I think I often misuse it.


0:03:27.6 Jordan Syatt: No, you use it perfectly. I had a tab pulled up on my computer for at least 7-8 months with that word up, just so I could always read it every day. Seriously. Because I would always forget what it was. It’s the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time. You’re using it literally perfectly.


0:03:48.2 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t know if you could use it specific to an industry or not, or if it was cross-cultural, but I’m talking about the fitness zeitgeist.


0:03:56.7 Jordan Syatt: The fitness zeitgeist. In terms of trends in the fitness industry right now for fitness stuff?


0:04:04.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Content, like nutrition, training, what people are talking… Yeah.


0:04:11.9 Jordan Syatt: What are people talking about, what are people doing? Let’s see. Well, I think one of the biggest ones are the weight loss injections.


0:04:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Mm, yep.


0:04:22.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s just a massive topic.


0:04:23.7 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:04:25.4 Jordan Syatt: And I was really glad I spoke with Spencer and Danielle about that, because they definitely opened my eyes to a side that I hadn’t really thought of before. It’s also been interesting, because essentially what these shots do, when we really boil it down to the most basic of what they do, is they reduce your hunger, right, and so they help people eat less, is really what it boils down to, right. So there’s been a lot of people who have been talking about, listen, if you’re thinking about getting these shots and you’re also the person who said, “Oh no, it’s my genetics that’s preventing me from losing weight,” well, what’s actually going on is, all these shots do is they prevent you from eating as much, they prevent you from being as hungry, so it’s not your genetics, it’s that you’re just eating too much.


0:05:15.5 Jordan Syatt: Now, so I like that discussion on one hand. On the other hand, the genetics part of the discussion that people I think are overlooking is that these people are likely experiencing hunger on a different level than others, which could be impacting, the term that Spencer used was food noise, just how much food makes up their day, how much they’re thinking about it due to their hunger and all of that, which is impacted by genetics. So I do think it’s very interesting. But that’s one of the major topics of conversation right now.


0:05:49.9 Mike Vacanti: You guys didn’t hit on or did you, the mechanism by which it reduces hunger?


0:06:00.8 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think we discussed the actual mechanism by how it’s reducing hunger.


0:06:04.9 Mike Vacanti: Because is it the same… I guess, two-part. They’re definitely reducing hunger. Are they doing something else, and is the mechanism by which whatever that is, the reducing hunger, is that what’s causing so many people to be able to quit smoking cigarettes easier or having these benefits on other addictions? Or is that like a side effect of these injections that is causing people to be less addicted to other things, or is it the same mechanism? And I guess we’re just, maybe we don’t know, but…


0:06:45.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Spitballing. Yeah. I don’t know. I want to do a part two with them, that was, I think, one of the most interesting parts of the entire conversation to me was how they’ve noticed that it’s also helped people improve their behaviors around impulsive choices, where they’re noticing that people are making fewer poor decisions impulsively when they do this, whether it’s drinking, whether it’s smoking, any of these things, it’s… Which I don’t know if they know the mechanism by which this is happening or what, but that to me was really incredible to hear because it’s more than just weight loss, there are… I would imagine that some of the worst decisions that people make in regard to their health and their life are impulsive decisions. And so, hearing that, it would be interesting to see on a genetic level who is more impulsive, who is less impulsive, why are some people more or less impulsive? Is it genetic? Is it upbringing? Is it just… Who knows? So that, I think, for me was one of the most interesting things that I was able to take away from it and opened my eyes to a more holistic perspective of them.


0:08:01.3 Mike Vacanti: The only known downside right now is GI distress, essentially?


0:08:10.3 Jordan Syatt: From what I’ve heard, yeah. That seems to be the major negative side effect that often people will have with it, yeah.


0:08:17.8 Mike Vacanti: And we have studies going back to the 1950s?


0:08:20.6 Jordan Syatt: I believe that’s what Spencer said. Yeah. I think that was early on in the podcast what he was talking about, yeah. I have not reviewed these studies, but he is the obesity medicine specialist. This is what his career and degree is in. So I do trust him on that. But I do need to do my own research.


0:08:36.5 Mike Vacanti: And I know some voices have talked about the risk of losing lean mass. But if you’re strength training consistently and if you’re getting enough protein in, you’re not losing more lean mass than someone who isn’t taking these injections.


0:08:55.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct. No, absolutely not. Yeah, that was what Spencer commented on Attia’s post about… And he was like, “You’re completely fear-mongering around this. That’s not substantiated. It’s not supported in the literature whatsoever. And as long as you’re strength training and eating protein, you’re not gonna see an excessive loss of lean mass.”


0:09:13.6 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. Okay. So nothing super new on that front. But yes, I see that too on my feeds.


0:09:22.7 Jordan Syatt: I do think it’s interesting to talk about, from the perspective of… I’ve just seen a lot of coaches going in on them, like a lot, and saying that they’re bad and you shouldn’t do it and it’s cheating and da, da, da, da, da.


0:09:36.1 Mike Vacanti: Is that the only reason they say you shouldn’t do it because it’s cheating?


0:09:39.0 Jordan Syatt: They basically say you’re looking for an easy way out, is what they say. You’re looking for an easy way out. Which I find it interesting. I think this is a really good example for all coaches to be very cautionary about talking about things that you don’t know about, especially when it comes to something like this. In terms of…


0:09:58.8 Mike Vacanti: With authority.


0:10:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. To just outright say… To look at what Newsweek is putting out and saying like, Kim Kardashian or whoever is using this drug in order to lose weight. You can absolutely comment on someone who doesn’t need to lose weight using drugs like this to lose weight in order to fit in a societal ideal of body image. Right? You can absolutely talk about that. But then to extrapolate that and just say, anyone using it is looking for an easy way out, is a very bad… It’s flat out wrong. It’s a bad idea. And that’s where I think if you’re a coach and you’re making content, you need to be very clear and very specific with what you’re addressing and how you’re addressing it. It’s one thing to say, I don’t like that celebrities or even non-celebrities, are using these drugs in order to reach a pretty… A very low level of body fat purely for aesthetic purposes. It’s another thing to say, these drugs are an easy way out or an excuse, whatever, when they’re actually… There’s a tremendous amount of research supporting the benefits that they have and how helpful they can be for other populations.


0:11:09.8 Jordan Syatt: So I’ve just noticed a lot of people, a lot of coaches indiscriminately hating on them. And it was very interesting for me after I posted the podcast. Dude, I got so many messages from people who are using them, considering using them, who… Every person you can imagine, every type of message. “I was using them, I am using them, I wanna use them, I’m… ” Whatever it is. And to have them listen to a podcast with Dr. Spencer and Dr. Belardo, with a much more science-backed perspective, it was very cool to hear. ‘Cause I think that if I just went on my page and started indiscriminately hating on them, I don’t think those people ever would’ve felt comfortable enough to tell me that they were using them or were considering using them, because there is so much hate around them, which is another thing to consider, where if you’re being super judgmental, especially around something that you don’t fully understand, you’re going to be pushing people away who might have wanted to come to you for help.


0:12:09.2 Mike Vacanti: Good point. And if you’re gonna talk about something you don’t fully understand, do what you did, bring an expert on to discuss, or say, “Hey, I don’t really… Here are the questions I have. I don’t know if it’s good or bad. Here are the thoughts that I’m having. Here are theories that I have.” But don’t present yourself as knowing everything about it if you don’t, just because you’re taking a, whatever, a Newsweek headline and regurgitating it.


0:12:33.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly.


0:12:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s also interesting, because in the coming years, I would imagine, if we have a significantly higher population taking them consistently, what may end up happening is we do find more potential downsides. But do those downsides outweigh the difference between someone being 55% body fat to 25% body fat?


0:13:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:13:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Right. Because we know what having a healthy body fat percentage, all else equal, does for someone’s longevity and long-term health, and whatever the downsides are, are they really… If they exist and whatever they are, do they really outweigh the benefits that losing all that weight have?


0:13:28.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, 100%.


0:13:30.0 Mike Vacanti: Probably not. We’ll find out. But it’s interesting to think about.


0:13:33.6 Jordan Syatt: I also think one of the common negative things that people will spout about is like that, “You need to take it forever. You need to be on it forever.” And they always… I always find this hilarious when people use that as a justification why something is bad because the same people who are saying this, they take creatine every fucking day. They have their protein powder every fucking day. They have their, whatever it is, they do it every single day. It’s like, okay, well if this drug does not give someone gastric distress, if this drug does not cause this person any harm or issues, and is only helping them in their health, why the fuck does it matter if they need to take it every day? You take shit every day, too.


0:14:12.0 Mike Vacanti: So, I can play devil’s advocate here. I see what you’re saying. Are there non-injectables available now, or are those what’s coming soon? Like this is coming in pill form soon?


0:14:24.8 Jordan Syatt: I’m not sure, to be honest.


0:14:27.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know if it’s the exact same thing. I’m almost certain…


0:14:30.0 Jordan Syatt: But you don’t inject every day. Some of these injections are like once every 10 days or once every like two weeks or something. It’s not an injection every day for all of them.


0:14:38.8 Mike Vacanti: I think there is some validity to that argument, but I’m going specifically to like TRT and reasons that I’ve thought about or wanted to or not wanted to myself.


0:14:47.7 Jordan Syatt: But TRT is totally different in terms of there could be real side effects with that, whether it’s infertility or any number of other things.


0:14:53.4 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, no. The only comparison I’m making is the argument that you have to do it for the rest of your life is a barrier to wanting to start.


0:15:00.9 Jordan Syatt: I agree with that. I just don’t think it’s enough. If someone is taking creatine every day or taking protein powder on a very consistent basis, and then they’re using the argument well, like, oh it’s bad because you have to take it every day, it’s like you’re nullifying your own argument because you take shit every day too. And not to mention there’s gastric distress with creatine for a lot of people as well. So then like that’s, it’s a separate discussion. I just don’t think people realize that when they’re saying, “Oh my God, you have to take it every day,” that they’re, when they’re also doing things that they’re taking every day that they don’t need to take, it’s like you’re nullifying your own argument. I don’t think that’s enough of a reason to say that it’s bad, just because you have to consistently take it.


0:15:42.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s definitely not enough of a reason to say that it’s bad. It is something to consider though. What I really don’t like is the arrogance of a 23-year-old single dude, and I’m singling this person out because I could have seen some of me in that person years ago…


0:16:06.4 Jordan Syatt: Mm-hmm. Yeah.


0:16:06.7 Mike Vacanti: Thinking like, I earned it, like I built this muscle and lost this weight and got this, and I did it naturally and I did it the right way, and if you don’t do it this way, it’s cheating. But not having any kind of comparison to the lifestyle of someone who has three kids, works two jobs, like struggles with X, Y, Z issue that you don’t even know about, has potential like things that have happened to them in their life where maybe they end up using food as an outlet, who’s older, who’s in like a position where it’s more difficult for them for whatever reason, lifestyle, schedule, etcetera, to make fitness a priority. And it’s like, “Oh you should… Like it’s cheating if you use this.”


0:16:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Right.


0:16:50.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t even know what I’m trying to say. I’m not a fan of that argument or that… It’s a narrow-minded way of looking at what’s going on.


0:17:05.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s false. Like cheating for what? This isn’t a sport. This is not a competition. We’re just trying to live longer and be healthier. And if this is gonna help them do that… [chuckle]


0:17:15.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I do think that if you are 13% body fat and you wanna be 6% body fat, and you’ve been struggling to get below 10% and you keep trying but then you end up binging, but like you really want to get that lean, and so you’re like, “Oh, this is gonna blunt my hunger so that I can finally get to 6% body fat,” that seems like a bad reason…


0:17:36.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s stupid.


0:17:38.1 Mike Vacanti: To take this. But yeah, I have a client… How tall is he? He’s either 6 foot or 6’1″, I believe, 270. And within the last few weeks, his doctor put him on Ozempic. And so that’s my first coaching client who’s taken them that I know of. I’m pretty sure it’s the first. And so I’m interested to see how that plays out and hear his…


0:18:01.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m very interested to hear how he does as well.


0:18:04.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yep.


0:18:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Like what happens with hunger, what happens with thoughts around food? It’d be very interesting to keep tabs on that.


0:18:11.7 Mike Vacanti: So it’s been two… Since recording this now, it’s been two weeks. And what he has said is, “In the evenings, when I would finish dinner and I would want more, and I would wanna go to the cupboards and want a snack, like now, I’ve finished my dinner and I just feel satisfied. And I just feel like I don’t want any more food and like I feel good. And so I don’t need it anymore.”


0:18:37.0 Jordan Syatt: I love that.


0:18:37.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So it’ll be interesting.


0:18:37.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s fucking amazing.


0:18:40.0 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely.


0:18:41.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’ll be very interesting to keep tabs on.


0:18:43.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:18:44.3 Jordan Syatt: And then not to mention how many areas of life that could improve outside of just his physical health. But, cool. So if instead of now worrying about, “Oh my God, am I gonna keep eating?” and having that be a huge thought in his head, he can maybe sit down and speak with his kids or speak with his wife or whatever it is, maybe focus on work more, who knows, maybe go on a walk. There’s so many things that he can do now, where the mental focus isn’t on food anymore and improve other areas of his life. It’s just… And then, who knows, maybe as a result of it before maybe he was really stressed about eating food. And I’m saying him but this is for everyone who could be in a similar situation where maybe all the stress around food was increasing cortisol, which would make it even more difficult.


0:19:26.6 Jordan Syatt: Now because that stress isn’t there, cortisol goes down. He can actually… Fitness professionals, this is another big one, another part of the zeitgeist right now is cortisol, cortisol, cortisol. But if this could help reduce that and improve that by just not having it constantly playing in your brain, there are so many areas of life that I think this could benefit. So I’m very interested in this topic and very excited to watch, as more research comes out and we see how it impacts people, positive or negatively, so we can learn from it.


0:20:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Anything else happening in the zeitgeist, or we can dive into Q&A? But anything else interesting going on out there in the feed?


0:20:10.4 Jordan Syatt: Is there anything… Yeah, there’s a lot going on, man. It’s a crazy fitness world out there. And, yeah, there’s a lot going on. We’ve spoken about the people obsessing over the right lines of pull in order to maximize hypertrophy, continuous glucose monitors, all that stuff. Yeah, there’s definitely a lot out there. I will… Yeah, yeah. There’s a lot. So we can go into Q&A. I think that was a good discussion around the current zeitgeist. You know what? Do us a favor. Email us, or don’t email us. Send us a message, @personaltrainerpodcast on Instagram, tell us some things you’re seeing around the fitness industry, some common trends, maybe you wanna hear our thoughts and opinions on them. It could be training, it could be nutrition, it could be psychology, it could be whatever you want. Any common trends. It could be business, anything and we’re happy to help.


0:21:09.0 Jordan Syatt: You know what? Actually, you sent me one the other day, Mike, and I’ve seen a bunch of ’em, and I’m sure everyone listening to this is probably seeing these because you’re interested in this type of content because you’re listening to it. But the ads for fitness business programs that I see on YouTube or I see on Instagram. And it always starts off with some dude being like, “Do you wanna make six figures or more helping clients or coaching people all over the world,” whatever. It’s always about like, “How much money can you make? Do you wanna make $10,000 a month, $20,000 a month passively?” Seeing a lot of those. That’s a big part of the zeitgeist in the industry right now. What do you think about those? I’m sure I know you’ve seen those as well.


0:21:56.6 Mike Vacanti: I historically just hate like spammy, sell-y YouTube pre-roll, like, “Here are my three secrets. Come to my webinar, put your email and your phone number here,” and then it’s just a hard sell on the back end. “You don’t have to make content to grow your business. If you’re making less than $40,000 a month, you need to come here and I’ll tell you all of the secrets from… ” Yeah. It’s not just fitness. In anything, when I hear that, it’s just very like Tai Lopez, circa 2014, “I’m here in my garage.” Like, “Knowledge. You want a Ferrari? You need knowledge.” It’s just shit. And it probably works, and I’m sure they convert, and I bet they’re plus EV ads, and if that’s how you wanna roll then cool, but I like building a business on a foundation of educating, helping more people. Yeah, and I’m not even gonna say that it’s morally superior, even though I think it is, but that’s just how I sleep at night, rather than like… Yeah.




0:23:10.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m not even gonna say that it’s morally superior, even though it is morally superior. [laughter]


0:23:19.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t know.


0:23:20.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. I would say, especially because I think a lot of the people listening to this are being served up those ads and potentially falling for them, I’ll say the same thing that I say to people when they’re like, “What do you think about keto? What do you think about carnivore? What do you think about this?” Listen. Try it. If you’re really that interested, give it a shot. Because the only way you’re really gonna know is if you try it out. But I guarantee you, and I can say this with the utmost certainty, you will not get anywhere near the education around the things that you really care about in terms of being a better coach, actually helping people, building a sustainable business, you will not get anywhere near that as you would get in our mentorship. Just I can say that and you might be like, “Well, you’re biased, da, da, da, da.”


0:24:15.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m biased and I’m fucking right. I promise you that. And this is an unexpected right hook, but if you really are very serious about getting more education on becoming a better coach around understanding program design, exercise technique, helping your clients’ nutrition, psychology, behavior change, systems for your business, setting it up, all of that stuff, and also having an amazing community of great coaches who are also trying to do the same thing as you, the link is in the description of this podcast. Go join. Join the mentorship. It will… And by the way, it’s way less expensive than all these other fucking things you’re seeing pre-roll ads for. I promise you that. It’s less expensive and it’s gonna be way better. I promise you. So, link in the description.


0:25:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Link in the description. Couldn’t agree more.


0:25:04.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay. So here’s one I was gonna ask in the last podcast, which people listening to this heard it last week, but we recorded it just a few minutes ago. So going through the Q&A, this has nothing to do with fitness, or you could argue potentially business, but this woman said, “If you had to make $2000 in four weeks, what would you do?” And I’m assuming, by the way, that this is like you don’t already have an income of that or more. You just gotta from scratch, you’ve got… You need to make $2000 in four weeks. What do you do?


0:25:42.4 Mike Vacanti: And I currently don’t have a job or a business?


0:25:46.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s hard for me to make that assumption, but I don’t think you have a business that is easily creating that income. I think maybe you’ve got a job… Let’s say this. We’ll say this. You have to make $2000 on top of what you’re already doing, and you can’t send an email to your email list of tons of people or do posts on social media. You can’t use these systems that you’ve already built. You already, you have a job and you need to make 2000 more than what you’re currently making in four weeks, what do you do?


0:26:21.4 Mike Vacanti: I would bless her heart, and I’ll give a real answer that will work and is easily executable, but I would try to never be in that position.


0:26:30.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s number one. Yep.


0:26:32.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t care if you’re 16 and listening to this or 26 or 36, building yourself an emergency fund, having years where you work your butt off and you spend as little as possible, having cash and investments that you’ve set aside, not trying to keep up with the Joneses, buying the used car, the cheaper car, renting versus getting a home, whatever. Be smart until you have a little nut saved away. If you’re in dire straits and need $2000 in four weeks, what would I do? I would sell material possessions because everyone has them. You got a couch, you got something, like a desk upstairs that you don’t use, you have stuff in your garage. I would sell my things, is what I would do.


0:27:19.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s bang.


0:27:22.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m definitely not cold DMing and trying… Like I’m not gonna sacrifice the reputation of my business to try to get money from business in the short-term.


0:27:31.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, not cold DMing, not creating… The only time I would create a GoFundMe is if there was a huge amount of money needed and it was for someone’s health concern and something to help charity-wise. I wouldn’t do it for something where it’s like, I don’t know, I probably wouldn’t do it for rent or something like that. If it’s for rent, then you need to downgrade, get a smaller place and live on less amounts of money. But I think you’re a 100% right and the number one answer is, it’s the same answer I would give to someone who’s like… What are you… “If I wanna lose 30 pounds in four weeks, what do I do?” Well, I wouldn’t try and do that. I would remove that timeline and just do it more sustainably and healthily and put yourself in a position where you have much more time and you don’t need to rush to do it. Which, by the way, I know fighters do all the time. Fighters will delay, delay, delay, they’ll gain a lot of weight and then they’ll have eight weeks before their weigh-ins and they’ve got to lose 40 pounds and then their whole training camp sucks as a result of it. So it’s like when a fighter says, “How do I lose 40 pounds in eight weeks?” It’s like, “you should have started 16 weeks ago, bro.”


0:28:40.8 Jordan Syatt: That was not a good idea and you probably shouldn’t have been eating like you were eating leading up to this. You should have been much more consistent in maintaining a better body comp, because this is your job and this is what you’re supposed to do. But I also love the selling your possessions. That’s just, sell shit. I don’t know, get a bucket and sit on that instead of your desk. Like [chuckle] that’s… Sell your desk, sit on a bucket, sit on the floor, make a picnic area. Whatever, sell your shit and make that money if it’s super, super important.


0:29:12.7 Mike Vacanti: Cool, fun, interesting question.


0:29:15.2 Jordan Syatt: “My son loves football and loves judo. It takes him every day, except the weekend to train. Is that too much?” And I’m just gonna leave it at that. I’m just gonna leave it there. What do you think? Her son, she says he’s 6 years old. He’s 6 years old, do you think that’s too much to train? “He loves football and he loves judo. He trains every day except the weekends. Is that too much?”


0:29:40.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think he’s training, I think he’s playing. And I don’t think that there is too much play for a 6-year-old boy or girl. But we’re talking about a boy here. There’s this stigma that kids these days are only on screens and only on iPads, and never outside and never doing anything, which is largely true compared to 20, 30 years ago. But when I walk around my neighborhood, I see kids outside playing all the time and it puts a huge smile on my face to see that happening. It sounds like your son loves what he’s doing and loves these activities, and wants to be doing them five days a week. And I can’t imagine that it’s more than an hour or two per day. No, that’s definitely not too much. In fact, if I were to design an optimum curriculum, rather than having elementary school kids sit on their butts for six, seven, eight hours a day, I think multiple hours of activity is something I would build into an optimal curriculum.


0:30:49.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I completely agree. I think the keywords and I tried to emphasize them when reading, it was, he loves judo and he loves football. He loves it. If the question was, I put my child into this activity that he doesn’t really like, but I’m forcing him to do it, do you think I’m over-training my child? That’s a completely different fucking question. If he loves judo and he loves football, and he loves soccer and he loves rock climbing, and he loves whatever, then he’s playing, just like you said and that’s amazing. And no, you’re not overdoing it at all and I think this is really what coaches need to understand when they’re either working with children or giving advice related to children, especially a five, six, seven, eight-year-old kid. Young kids play, fun, enjoyment.


0:31:43.4 Jordan Syatt: There were and… I would coach a number of either youth sports teams or I would even have parents bring their kids in when they were between six, seven, eight, nine, and 10. And any coach who’s worked with kids will probably smile as I’m about to say it but getting them to pay attention is a bitch. It is very difficult, especially if you’ve got a room of them, and he’s playing on a football team and he’s doing judo. You can’t do either of those by yourself. You’re doing those in a team setting or a group setting. I’ve seen the jiu-jitsu classes with kids who are five, six, seven, eight, nine, and 10. They’re fun. The vast majority of it is just fun and play, little bits of actual practical self-defense learning here and there. But the vast majority of it is they’re just wild and they’re having fun as they should be.


0:32:31.8 Jordan Syatt: And that should be the main focus and main goal of any training program for a child. It’s just fun and play and learning and movement, and team building and understanding communication and respect. One of the things I love about the martial arts is, especially watching these kids’ classes in jiu-jitsu and stuff, the professor, at least in my academy, and I’ve seen this in other academies as well, he’ll walk up to each student and he’ll shake their hand before and after each class. And if they give a little wimpy handshake, he’s like, “Nope, good handshake. And look me in the eye and say, ‘Thank you, professor.'” And respect, and eye contact and communication and listening as a part of that process, I think, is just absolutely invaluable.


0:33:16.9 Mike Vacanti: I love it.


0:33:19.6 Jordan Syatt: All right, here’s one. I’m going to riff on this and I’ll hear your thoughts after. So this person said, “I just lost my first badminton tournament badly and I’ve been sulking for two days.” That’s all they said. And I just want to be like, “Shut the fuck up.” Like you’re sulking for two days because you lost your badminton tournament? Come on. Like you play badminton because it’s fun. You play badminton because you want to go have fun and you enjoy it. And because maybe it’s exercise, but you’re going to sulk for two days? You’re an adult and you’re going to sulk for two days because you lost your… I’m going to say it again, badminton tournament? Get the fuck out of here. Like I don’t care if it’s what sport, I don’t care if it’s football, baseball, basketball, jiu-jitsu. I don’t give a shit. If you’re doing it and you’re not an absolute professional and you’re just doing this because you entered the local badminton tournament, god damn, there is no reason for you to be sulking. You should go, you lost, go grab a beer with the people that beat you.


0:34:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Come on, like sulking for two days because of that? I see people, and the reason I wanted to riff on this is because I see people doing this with social media. They have a post that doesn’t get as many likes or their page isn’t growing and they start sulking around. Shut… You didn’t get as many likes as you want in your posts and you’re sulking? You didn’t get as many people signing up for your program and you’re sulking? Relax. It’s, just fucking relax. Stop being so hard on yourself. Stop holding yourself to unrealistic expectations. Stop being a little bitch and just fucking go. Like come on. When you’re looking back in your life, do you really want to be the person that was like, “Yeah, I sulked for two days after my badminton tournament. I sulked for two days after I had a post on social media that didn’t do very well.” Shut the fuck up. Just keep going.


0:35:16.5 Mike Vacanti: Good riff.


0:35:17.2 Jordan Syatt: Clip that, clip nation.


0:35:21.5 Mike Vacanti: Clips Nation. Good riff. I got nothing to add.


0:35:23.9 Jordan Syatt: Nothing? Come on. You’ve got something to add.


0:35:28.9 Mike Vacanti: No, I don’t. I think we move to the next question.


0:35:30.5 Jordan Syatt: Come on, Michael.


0:35:30.9 Mike Vacanti: I think you nailed it there, bro. I don’t have anything to add. Yeah. Don’t… Look, yeah, I’m anti-sulk like you, especially over something that’s not worth… Like completely unproductive. Either use the negative…


0:35:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Anti-sulk. [laughter]


0:35:48.8 Mike Vacanti: Look, if you’re that bummed out about it, maybe this person… You kind of disrespected badminton a little bit there. So I’m actually going to come here to defend badminton. Maybe this person takes badminton super seriously and like really wants to win and is hyper competitive and good for he or she because… You know what? I just had a memory. We had badminton in gym class in high school.


0:36:12.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it was fun.


0:36:12.7 Mike Vacanti: It got very competitive, but here’s the thing. Here’s the thing. If you’re taking it that seriously and you’re pissed when you lose, then you take the negative emotion and you go sneak into the court in the middle of the night, and you go practice your serve for like four straight hours. Sulking doesn’t accomplish anything.


0:36:30.6 Jordan Syatt: And to be fair, I said every sport. I didn’t just say badminton. But I think badminton is just funny.


0:36:34.0 Mike Vacanti: I know, you course corrected, but early on you’re like, “Badminton? You’re… Badminton?”




0:36:44.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny. It’s one of those words that like, you know how stand-up comedians, they’ll try and find the exact word that will get the most laughs? Like the exact word that like is the funniest thing? And they could, there could be multiple synonyms and multiple different things, but there’s one word that will just hit in a certain way. Badminton was that word. There’s like, it was a toss up. It was like, it just gave it to me. It’s like, you’re going to sulk for two days over badminton? It wouldn’t hit if I was like two days over a football game. Football game doesn’t hit the same way as badminton does.


0:37:15.5 Mike Vacanti: I hear you. And you got that stand-up comedy in your blood.


0:37:18.6 Jordan Syatt: All right. This is a good one, you’re going to like this one.


0:37:19.1 Mike Vacanti: Last one. Last question.


0:37:19.7 Jordan Syatt: “Apart from fitness, what routines make you happy/improve your mental health?”


0:37:28.3 Mike Vacanti: Meditation.


0:37:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you meditate every day?


0:37:31.2 Mike Vacanti: No. Historically, no, I’ve had good streaks and good periods. I’m in a solid-ish period for the last, I don’t know, 10 to 12 days or so, which isn’t much to write home about.


0:37:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Nice. So how do you meditate? What do you do?


0:37:50.4 Mike Vacanti: I sit on my butt and close my eyes, and I repeat the same word over and over again for 20 minutes. And I try to do that twice a day.


0:38:00.5 Jordan Syatt: Do you think about anything or just that word?


0:38:02.9 Mike Vacanti: Just the word.


0:38:03.0 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Do you ever notice your brain like going elsewhere?


0:38:05.8 Mike Vacanti: Do I ever not notice my brain going elsewhere? Yeah, constantly. In 2016, I remember having a few sessions where I was like zen, real feeling elevated and feeling something kind of different. But no, I’m constantly thinking about things and then I just bring my focus back to the word, which is actually good practice at using that mechanism of like distraction, but no, come back to the task at hand. When I’m distracted, come back to the task at hand. Because people get frustrated, they judge themselves, they think they’re doing a bad job because they’re having thoughts. Everybody has thoughts. You’re not meditating to be the best meditator.


0:38:48.7 Jordan Syatt: I am.


0:38:50.0 Mike Vacanti: And the main benefit… Yeah, I know you are. The main benefit, because I think this is important, that I have noticed when I’ve been consistent is it creates more space between feeling and action. I’ll just speak for myself, but if I’m in a bad place, emotion and action are pretty tightly wound together, whereas the more I’m meditating, the wider the gap, the more I can just kinda sit in that middle place. And there are other… Sleep quality improves, which is already pretty good, but I feel like I can actually do better on less sleep… Ability to focus for longer periods of time is enhanced. I don’t really struggle with anxiousness, but my ability to be present improves if I’m meditating consistently. So that’s one. I think fitness is the biggest pillar. I forget the actual question. But things other than fitness that are part of your routine that benefit you?


0:40:00.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And make you happy and improve your mental health.


0:40:03.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Fitness is the biggest one. And we used to kinda talk about this and then we haven’t said it much recently, I think because it’s been less a thing on social media, but there’s a misconception that talk therapy is the only form of therapy that you have to go sit down with a clinical psychologist and talk about, whatever, talk as a form of therapy. There are other forms of therapy. And there are… Man, I gotta pee so bad I can barely think straight… [chuckle] Physical activity is one of them, especially for me. Maybe we’ll do a whole episode on this at some point.


0:40:46.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Aside from fitness, I think just spending time with my family is probably the biggest one for me right now. Before I had my family, before I had my wife and daughter, there’s so much… So much of my life is fitness, whether it’s just going on a walk or a run or lifting or jiu-jitsu or learning about lifting or learning about jiu-jitsu, so much of the things that bring me happiness are fitness-related. I think another one is traveling. Traveling has always been something that has just brought me so much joy.


0:41:34.3 Jordan Syatt: Trying to learn a new language. There’s actually… I was looking at some research around what learning a new language does to your brain, and it just seems like it’s fucking wild, the impact that learning a new language has on your brain health. That for me has been something that’s been wonderful as well, signing up for… I speak Hebrew, but signing up for more advanced Hebrew speaking classes and doing those on Tuesday and Thursday mornings, which I’m not doing those currently, but I have done those for a while, and that is something that helps me a lot and just makes me happier, feel more fulfilled. Communication for me, in general, and the idea of being able to speak a new language to people and express myself in another language is… That has been wonderful. So, I would say that. And that, I think, for me is one of my forms, we’ll call it meditation, we’ll call it therapy. The type of meditation that you described, sitting down and just thinking of one word over and over and over again, I have a very bad relationship with that type of meditation…


0:42:34.3 Mike Vacanti: You’ve done it?


0:42:34.8 Jordan Syatt: Because my… Oh my god, yeah. I don’t know if I ever told you… I think I told you some of these stories…


0:42:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Oh, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.


0:42:40.6 Jordan Syatt: And I don’t like to shit talk ’em… I don’t like to shit talk people in general, especially if they can’t be there to back it up. But I had some very poor experiences with meditation being forced to do it as a kid. And if I wasn’t doing it in “the right way” or for the right amount of time or whatever, I was met with explosive anger, which I think has tainted my view, unfortunately, of meditation as a whole. I’ve always wanted to try to get back into it, but even as I say it, there’s a level of discomfort that I have in my stomach and chest, just thinking about what I was met with as I was forced to try to do it, that I just… No. Not for me, unfortunately.


0:43:28.6 Mike Vacanti: Right now.


0:43:29.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Maybe ever. [laughter]


0:43:30.7 Mike Vacanti: But you just… Yeah. We’ll leave it at that. Great episode. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a five-star review, Spotify, iTunes, wherever you’re listening. Hit that thumbs up button on YouTube. We appreciate you. We’ll be back next week. Every Tuesday morning, we upload. See ya.


0:43:49.8 Jordan Syatt: See ya.

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