Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | RSS Feed | YouTube

In this episode, we discuss what we would do if we were government officials in charge of improving global health. We also cover a very underrated lower body exercise, Jordan’s return to stand-up comedy, and more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


Join our email list & get our FREE ’30 Ways To Build A Successful Online Coaching Business’ manual:

Check out our new book ‘Eat It!’ at

If you have any questions you’d like to have answered on the show, shoot us an email at

If you enjoyed the episode, we would sincerely appreciate it if you left a five-star review.


You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.6 Mike Vacanti: What are you drinking, Jordan?


0:00:13.2 Jordan Syatt: Little lemonade.


0:00:14.4 Mike Vacanti: Not full calorie.


0:00:16.2 Jordan Syatt: You kidding me? Why would I waste calories on that? It’s 10 calories per 8 fluid ounce.


0:00:22.9 Mike Vacanti: Do you know what I drank the other day, for the first time in legitimately probably a decade?


0:00:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Orange juice?


0:00:31.5 Mike Vacanti: No. I’ve had orange juice.


0:00:33.4 Jordan Syatt: Apple juice?


0:00:34.7 Mike Vacanti: No. I was on an airplane and I was just feeling kind of degenerate, and I saw it and I was like…


0:00:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Bloody Mary?


0:00:42.7 Mike Vacanti: No. It’s just like, I’m gonna get that.


0:00:46.4 Jordan Syatt: Ginger ale?


0:00:47.9 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:00:51.6 Jordan Syatt: Hm. Cranberry juice?


0:00:53.1 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:00:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Is it a juice?


0:00:55.2 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:00:55.8 Jordan Syatt: Is it an alcoholic drink?


0:00:57.5 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:01:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Is it a soda?


0:01:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Yap.


0:01:01.4 Jordan Syatt: Dr. Pepper?


0:01:02.7 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:01:03.6 Jordan Syatt: Coke?


0:01:04.5 Mike Vacanti: A Coca-Cola.


0:01:06.3 Jordan Syatt: A regular Coca-Cola, man.


0:01:07.3 Mike Vacanti: A regular? Well, you know, a plane pour. So probably about 4 ounces of regular Coca-Cola. But boy, was that delicious.


0:01:16.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, regular Coca-Cola is phenomenal.


0:01:20.5 Mike Vacanti: And it’s not even, like it’s the high fructose corn syrup. It’s not even the OG Coca-Cola in the little bottles that actually are sweetened with sugar.


0:01:29.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:01:33.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s the regular Coca-Cola. But man, really good. I understand how people can get, like, “addicted” to the point where they’re having 48, 60, 72 ounces of regular soda a day.


0:01:46.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude. Yeah. I haven’t had regular Coca-Cola in a long time.


0:01:51.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:01:51.6 Jordan Syatt: So yeah, man.


0:01:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Alright, what did we say we’re gonna lead off with?


0:01:56.3 Jordan Syatt: How do we improve global health if we’ve got everybody, basically everybody has more knowledge than they’ve ever had, right? Everybody knows strength training. Everyone knows exercise. Everyone knows they need to be eating well. Like the knowledge. The level of knowledge for the average person is better than it’s ever been in regard to how to live a healthy life, but obesity rates are higher than they’ve ever been. Global health is arguably the worst it’s ever been. What do we do? How do we improve it?


0:02:33.2 Mike Vacanti: If I knew…


0:02:33.6 Jordan Syatt: I’m asking you.


0:02:34.2 Mike Vacanti: I know, and I’m telling you that…


0:02:34.9 Jordan Syatt: I’m looking for answers.


0:02:37.8 Mike Vacanti: [laughter] If either of us knew, I think we would be doing more than we are to implement those solutions.


0:02:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Like, you were working for the World Health Organization and you were tasked with the job of leading a program that is designed to improve global health, what would your first step be?


0:03:07.8 Mike Vacanti: Not smart enough. But I’m just gonna start throwing out random things that are bouncing around in my brain, so I’m very pro-freedom. I’m very like…


0:03:20.8 Jordan Syatt: Hey, one of your favorite movies is Braveheart. “Freeeeeeedom!”


0:03:26.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m not… Like that sounded almost like mocking. And actually like…


0:03:30.3 Jordan Syatt: No, not mocking.


0:03:30.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay. For your punishment, I’d like you to sit and watch that movie.


0:03:34.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’ve watched that movie. I really enjoy it. It was not mocking. It was admiration.


0:03:43.2 Mike Vacanti: I think that the battle of the lone individual… You said world health, I can’t address the whole world. I can barely wrap my head around how could, in America, what steps could we take to make things better?


0:04:00.4 Jordan Syatt: Let’s just talk about America then.


0:04:04.2 Mike Vacanti: My first step goes against what I believe and goes against my principles, but if I was like the dictator and I ruled with an iron fist, I would have more regulation. And I don’t think like this in any political issue. But with this, I really think I’d have more regulation around all of the shit because I think that most people just aren’t going to win the battle against hyper-palatable foods, the types of jobs that we have, the access to technology that we have, the addictiveness of for you pages and vertical video across the internet, the addictiveness of porn, the addictiveness of drugs all over the place, the addictiveness of sloth, like, I don’t think that 330 million lone individuals or wherever we’re at population-wise, are going to win this one versus many battle against the teams of scientists making Oreos better and better every single year.


0:05:05.2 Jordan Syatt: Yap.


0:05:06.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think that we win that battle. So in this fictitious world, I would try and make a lot of the shit not available. And IIFYM, Mike’s Macros, like, you can have it if you… What I’m saying right now goes against a lot of what I believe on an individual level because I don’t think, I don’t know if it’s willpower. I don’t know if it’s IQ. I don’t know if it’s like a time management/energy management/lifestyle issue, but clearly, basically, nobody wants to be morbidly obese.


0:05:50.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:05:51.0 Mike Vacanti: But many, many, many people are. And like you said, we are at peak knowledge. This is how we finished the last episode. We are at peak knowledge. So it’s not a knowledge issue. Like obviously, more people could be more educated, which would help, but fundamentally, it’s not like people don’t know what to do. It’s not like if you told everyone, “Increase your protein, reduce your calories, and take more steps and strength train 45 minutes, three days a week,” and then that knowledge, and then all of a sudden, it’s like life becomes easy, and they can walk around at a healthy weight and maintain that weight. It’s not a knowledge problem. It’s something else. And if I’m the dictator ruling with an iron fist, I’m gonna be like… I can’t believe I’m even saying this, but I’m gonna be like, no McDonald’s. Like, there’s no reason for McDonald’s.




0:06:43.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m like, I’m just gonna get rid of so much shit. And I like that shit, but I can track that shit and fit it into my day and have it once every three weeks and be reasonable. And clearly, many, many people can’t.




0:07:00.5 Mike Vacanti: And so this is fundamentally communist, but I would trust myself as this all-knowing person to be like, I know what’s best for you and I’m gonna take this stuff away…




0:07:13.7 Mike Vacanti: Which goes against everything I believe in. [laughter] But if you were asking me to solve the problem, that’s how I would solve the problem. Because people ain’t gonna get fat on sweet potatoes and chicken breasts and eggs and asparagus and strawberries and mango and watermelon and every one ingredient… And potato, every one-ingredient food on earth. People aren’t going like, they’re just not.


0:07:37.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I love that. What if, so here, I’ve had the benefit of sitting and thinking about what I would do. So, I have that advantage. I’m interested to hear your thoughts on this. What if, rather than taking the approach of, no, this, you’re not allowed this, what if we gave incentives for people to be healthier, right? So we have tiers, and I was debating this in my head. I was like, okay, well for example, I don’t wanna use BMI for obvious reasons. Someone who’s very muscular could be screwed over on that. But if we could use body fat as an example, right? Body fat or total cholesterol, or your ratio of cholesterol, or blood pressure or even something as simple as like, how many steps you’re getting a day. Things that you can prove, right?


0:08:27.5 Jordan Syatt: You get incentives, whether it’s tax cuts, whether it’s more like a universal basic income style program, where you get money for these… Like for going to the gym. You’ve showed up to the gym, cool. You showed up to the gym, I don’t know, 320 days this year, awesome. You got 10,000… An average of 7,500 steps or 10,000 steps or whatever it is. Cool. You get this tax cut or you get this level of money going towards you. Now, the only thing that I would also have to think about is, I think it would be important to have levels based on age, right? Like, so obviously, like someone who’s 70 can’t necessarily get the same number of steps as someone who is 25. You can, but it was far more difficult. So it would have to be tiered based on age, I think.


0:09:22.4 Jordan Syatt: And also, I’d love to see something for, based on level of, percentage of improvement. So someone who, if someone was 350 pounds and they lost 100 pounds, there’s got to be something there in which like, okay, that’s a massive improvement and maybe you weren’t getting 10,000 steps. Maybe you’re only getting 4000-5000, but you lost 100 pounds, the percentage of improvement. Or if someone is severely hypertensive, they’re like 210/110 blood pressure and then they go down to 150/80. The percentage increase is so huge that they get some, maybe a bonus, right? When you have this big, big improvement, boom! Big bonus. And then if you maintain it for X number of years, boom, you get a bonus.


0:10:18.6 Jordan Syatt: And then also, like, then once you reach a certain level, like, alright, if you’re in this range, for men, we’ll say between anywhere between 8-17% body fat and then women, somewhere between 15-23% body fat. Like you get a lot more benefits at that level. I could see that being a really great motivator for people that would help every individual; it would help the entire healthcare system, it would help the economy. It would help with everything. And it has a more positive spin, as opposed to the dictatorial style of, no fucking McDonald’s. [laughter] What do you think of that?


0:11:02.8 Mike Vacanti: I like it. I like incentives. I think it’s funny that both of us, when asked to solve a problem, we both went bigger government solution.


0:11:14.8 Jordan Syatt: Well, here’s why I think that’s… It is very interesting. There’s only so much that we can do for the individual if they aren’t willing to do it themselves.


0:11:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Correct.


0:11:28.4 Jordan Syatt: And I think that having a… I don’t think the government, here’s what I think, the reason that knowledge is so much better now than it’s ever been in history is because individuals, like people listening to this podcast, like the coaches in the mentorship, like you and I, have spent their time and money learning and then educating the masses. I know for a fact the government has not helped improve health across the United States. They’ve extended lifespan, they’ve helped extend lifespan. They’ve, to talk about Peter Attia, I think they’ve deteriorated health span. I think they’re making it more difficult and they’re making people rely more on medications, rely more on the healthcare system because I think there’s more money in that.


0:12:21.6 Jordan Syatt: Whereas I think if the weakest link right now in the chain of public health is government oversight, government intervention, what the messaging that the government is putting about, I think the messaging by so many individuals and small companies online is incredible. But the government is, they are very reactive instead of proactive. And come on. That, I think if we’re looking at like globally or across huge populations, we need to give people a fucking incentive to do this.


0:12:53.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m with you. I still, I agree with what you just said. I still think it’s funny that… Solve this problem. Okay, let’s increase government spending to solve this problem.


0:13:03.7 Mike Vacanti: Let’s run the numbers though.


0:13:04.2 Jordan Syatt: Or we could do the opposite…


0:13:05.7 Mike Vacanti: Hang on, hang on. Let’s run the numbers. You’re talking financial incentives I assume?


0:13:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, financial incentives. Sure. Yeah.


0:13:13.4 Mike Vacanti: How much money, someone goes from this terrible blood pressure marker down to 150/80.


0:13:19.0 Jordan Syatt: Like what would the bonus be?


0:13:20.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:13:21.8 Jordan Syatt: I’m at with zero knowledge to back this up. I’d say…


0:13:25.8 Mike Vacanti: No no, just, you’re thinking of a number. You put yourself in that person’s shoes. What is an amount of money that’s gonna motivate you to make that health change?


0:13:34.2 Jordan Syatt: $2,000.


0:13:35.8 Mike Vacanti: Okay. And so, are we thinking that $2,000 will be the average bonus per year earned by each citizen?


0:13:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Why not? I have not given this any more thought, but yeah. We’ll say that’ll be the average bonus.


0:13:54.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay. So 332 million x $2,000 is 1-2-3… 664 billion. That’s actually…


0:14:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Not that crazy.


0:14:13.6 Mike Vacanti: Is that right? 1-2… Not that crazy at all. 664 billion is pennies compared to what we’ve printed in the last five years.


0:14:23.1 Jordan Syatt: Right?


0:14:23.8 Mike Vacanti: Is $2,000 enough to incentivize someone?


0:14:26.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s enough to incentivize a lot of people. It’s enough to incentivize a lot of people, and that’s just one bonus. What if we have a bonus for steps?


0:14:38.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:14:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Which would be a little bit more difficult to track, but we have a bonus for, there’s so many other bonus availabilities and for every tier that you reach, you get potentially more… Tax cuts rather than you get this check, but cool, you get this tax cut. So you don’t have to pay as much, which could, is essentially, is a raise.


0:14:56.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. For the government, it’s the same though. Then it’s less coming in.


0:15:02.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah. It’s same net issue…


0:15:04.8 Mike Vacanti: From a balanced budget perspective.


0:15:06.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:15:06.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. The other thing we need to consider is, with all due respect, private industry does things much more effective and efficient… Most things much more effective and efficient than the federal government. And for this 332 million person program where we’re gonna have to monitor incentives and measure progress and give payouts, we’re talking hundreds of thousands of employees.


0:15:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Think how many jobs this will create.


0:15:40.8 Mike Vacanti: Across the country. I know. But, it’s not actually 664 billion because that’s just in payouts. It would be a whole apparatus, but yeah. It creates jobs…


0:15:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Creates…


0:15:52.1 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.


0:15:52.5 Jordan Syatt: Tons of jobs. It… Dude, that’s it, bro.


0:15:58.6 Mike Vacanti: One-ingredient foods. Here’s the problem.




0:16:00.5 Mike Vacanti: We all know what a double Quarter Pounder with bacon and cheese tastes like. We all know what an Oreo is. If we never knew, then it wouldn’t be a problem. The fact, if we could Men in Black mind erase, and then all… I don’t wanna use the word processed foods, but all multi-ingredient foods, all shit, we’ll just call it, is gone, that would work. It’s a little more fictitious…


0:16:28.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I agree. I just…


0:16:30.2 Mike Vacanti: Yours was more realistic.


0:16:32.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I was gonna say, I feel that would be more difficult to implement. They’d both be very difficult. But I feel just the mass elimination of processed… [laughter]


0:16:46.3 Mike Vacanti: Gone.


0:16:46.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, Yeah.


0:16:48.6 Mike Vacanti: Gone.


0:16:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I think people would lose it over incentive-based programs like that.


0:16:54.8 Mike Vacanti: I think it’d be interesting. It’d be interesting.


0:17:00.3 Jordan Syatt: And then not to mention how it would stimulate the economy. People have that money coming in, then they go out and spend it. They’re improving their health, they’re living longer, spending more money over a longer period of time. Maybe getting enough money to start their own businesses. Small businesses grow. Dude, I think this could be a big fucking hit. I might pitch this.


0:17:19.0 Mike Vacanti: Go pitch it to…


0:17:19.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know to who, I don’t know who the fuck is gonna listen to me, but I’ll pitch it. I just pitched it right now. We gotta get RFK Jr on the podcast.




0:17:30.0 Mike Vacanti: What else is going on on the streets?


0:17:31.8 Jordan Syatt: On the mean streets of the Gram? What do we got going on? Dude, I don’t know, man. I don’t spend that much time looking at what else is going on.


0:17:46.1 Mike Vacanti: I know, but you have your finger on the pulse.


0:17:48.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m really try… Dude, I’ve gotten the itch to get back into standup comedy.


0:17:53.0 Mike Vacanti: Really?


0:17:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I’ve gotten a big itch to get back into doing standup. I’ve just been, I’ve been watching a lot of it. And it’s just, dude, the skill of some of these comedians is just mind-blowing. They make it look so effortless, but it’s not, like they work so hard on this. I was thinking about signing up for a course to learn about the process of creating a joke. It’s a whole system. A whole process. I would… I wanna, I’m thinking about doing that.


0:18:23.8 Mike Vacanti: That’d be really cool. You’ve done some standup, right?


0:18:26.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ve done it somewhere between three to five times. I did a couple times in the States, a couple times in Israel and I loved it. I had a blast. I’ve been watching a lot of Tom Segura, a lot of Nate Bargatze, a lot of Sebastian Maniscalco, Robin Williams, Rodney Dangerfield, some classics, but yeah, it’s just… Dude, Robin Williams did a standup for three hours straight.


0:18:50.9 Mike Vacanti: That’s insane.


0:18:52.0 Jordan Syatt: Three hours. Like I have trouble figuring out what I’m gonna talk about for two minutes. This guy, three hours straight. Unbelievable.


0:19:02.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but you’re an E, you could do it.


0:19:04.7 Jordan Syatt: No, I could definitely do it, but I would love to know the system that they use to remember ’cause I… Memorization for three hours is, I’m not gonna say it’s impossible, but there has to be some level of something that they use to remind themselves or some systems that they use like to… All right, well, what goes next? What goes next? What goes next? But yeah, it’s really incredible to me. Some of these like, even a 60-minute standup is pretty wild.


0:19:33.6 Mike Vacanti: Keep us updated if… I personally would like to see you perform some standup. So get that course. Do some joke writing, and let’s hit an open mic night.


0:19:47.0 Jordan Syatt: My favorite type of joke or type of show is when a comic will make… They’ll make a joke at the very beginning, and then throughout the entire process of the show, at the very end, they end with something that like just makes the whole thing come in a circle. And I forget what it’s called, I don’t think it’s called a circular joke. I forget what it’s called, but…


0:20:08.9 Mike Vacanti: What’s the first example of it that comes to your mind? Don’t lie.


0:20:13.8 Jordan Syatt: I’m actually, I’m trying to think. There’s a great one. This wasn’t from the start of the show to the end of the show, but Tom Segura has a classic one. Have you seen Tom Segura?


0:20:27.7 Mike Vacanti: I know who he is.


0:20:29.0 Jordan Syatt: He has a classic one where [laughter] he starts off… So he’s already halfway through the show and he’s now beginning a new joke and the beginning of the joke, he just start… He yells, “Bikes!” he screams, “Bikes!” into the phone, and no one knows what he is doing. And he’s talking, “He’s like, yeah, sometimes I just yell random things, whatever.” He’s like, “I don’t have Tourette’s, but sometimes I wish I did.” He’s just going off. And then he tells the story of where this comes from, why he just randomly yells bikes. And you could watch it on YouTube. It’s like a five-minute clip if you searched Tom Segura bikes. But he basically tells this whole story about, there used to be this show, I forget what the name he said was, but they would take troubled youth, youth who were acting out and not doing spitballs in class or teasing people. Young kids who were like stabbing people and they were like going to go to prison for the rest of their life.


0:21:27.4 Jordan Syatt: And there was a program where they would take these kids to prison to interact with the inmates, to try and scare them out of doing stupid stuff. And he tells the stories of like these sixth graders, 12-year-olds, meeting all these different people and all the different inmates… Inmates who killed people and killed like six people, who were serving multiple life sentences, all this stuff. And I don’t wanna ruin the joke, but this is the setup for it. And then it comes back around and it was very well done. That was the first one that comes to mind, but it’s actually not even the true version of what I said.


0:22:07.4 Mike Vacanti: I love it, bro. I got a couple emails I’m gonna read here. The first one, we may or may not leave this in, I’m only… Alright. Someone reached out, Sac. Sac reached out. I’m not gonna say the last name for privacy.


0:22:26.6 Jordan Syatt: First name Sac?


0:22:26.7 Mike Vacanti: “Hey, my name is Sac. I found out your profile and I’m really interested in what you offer. By the way, I’m a high ticket closer.”




0:22:36.8 Mike Vacanti: “I can help you close more deals for your high ticket coaching program. I have over four years of experience in sales, marketing, and persuasion. Very hardworking. And will contribute to the growth of the company and close more deals for you. If you’re looking to hire a remote high ticket closer, then would you mind jumping on a Zoom call with me? I’m a high ticket closer… “




0:23:08.0 Mike Vacanti: “…And I can help you close more deals.”




0:23:18.5 Mike Vacanti: This is why you don’t cold email, cold DM. Yeah, there’s probably a better way to do it, but this is like a combination of all of the things that we stand against. High tickets, cold approach…


0:23:31.3 Jordan Syatt: Closers. [laughter]


0:23:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Well, yeah. [laughter]


0:23:33.7 Jordan Syatt: “I’m a high ticket closer. You want a high ticket closer? I’m your high ticket closer, closing.” Dude, that was bad.


0:23:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And…


0:23:43.8 Jordan Syatt: That was really bad.


0:23:44.7 Mike Vacanti: I wasn’t actually gonna read it, but we have another email from our guy, Dom in the mentorship. Shoutout Dom, who emailed me some screenshots. He said, “Hey guys, had an interesting… ” And this is separate from Sac’s pitch to Jordan and I about high ticket closing.




0:24:05.7 Mike Vacanti: Dom said, “Hey guys, had an interesting interaction with someone trying to sell me on growing my business through Instagram DMs. I added screenshots below so you can paraphrase for the pod, but I think it’d be a nice example of why cold DMs lose in comparison to making good content. The most interesting part was that I felt like she thought I owed her my interest.” So, she said, “Heyyy, Dominic, X,” With like multiple… You know when you put multiple Es or multiple Ys on a hey, it’s kinda like a slutty hey?




0:24:45.4 Jordan Syatt: Wait did she do many Xs?


0:24:47.4 Mike Vacanti: No, she did one X, but that’s like kiss and even like hey, like H-E-Y-Y is like, “heyyy,” like…


0:24:53.5 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Yeah. She did like “Dominiccccc X?”


0:24:55.9 Mike Vacanti: No, but she said, “heyyy”, with like extra letters, Dominic…


0:25:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay.


0:25:00.8 Mike Vacanti: And then with an X at the end.


0:25:02.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Yeah, that’s like flirty. That’s flirty.


0:25:06.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. “Are you full…” Jordan you’re so dialed into 2023.




0:25:13.2 Mike Vacanti: I called it slutty and now people are pissed and Jordan’s like, “it’s flirty, Mike. It’s flirty!”




0:25:19.6 Mike Vacanti: “Get with the times. You can’t say slutty.” “Are you fully online or do you do face-to-face too?” So I hate this open. This happened to me on email recently, somewhat similar, where the question this person is asking is making it seem like they’re a potential client.


0:25:40.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s a bait and switch.


0:25:41.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s a bait and switch. “Hey, Dani, I do both in person and online.” “Okay, amazing. I actually wanted to reach out as I work for a company that helps PTs who are looking to grow their businesses. Our founders were the guys that built…” something none of us have ever heard of, “which is pretty cool. We’re looking to speak to PTs who are open to learning new ways to grow. Does that sound like something you’d be interested in?” Smiley face, X. So another like kiss, I don’t know. That’s what X is, right? Kiss?


0:26:12.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:26:13.0 Mike Vacanti: XO, hugs and kisses?


0:26:15.0 Jordan Syatt: X is, yeah.


0:26:16.2 Mike Vacanti: Dom says, “No, sorry.”




0:26:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Which I love. It’s a great response. “Okay, no worries. Just for my feedback, is there any reason in particular why?” X.


0:26:32.1 Mike Vacanti: “I don’t know you or anything about you.”




0:26:34.4 Mike Vacanti: “I also don’t think you know anything about me, my goals or obstacles so it’s hard to believe that you’d be able to help me. Not to say that you can’t help me, but this interaction just feels transactional.” Great response.


0:26:45.4 Jordan Syatt: Dom’s a beast.


0:26:48.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:26:48.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, Dom is a beast. I love this.


0:26:52.6 Mike Vacanti: “For sure. And you’re right, I don’t know if we’d be able to help you or not yet. It’s super tricky to articulate what we do in a message. So usually, I jump on calls with coaches to really understand their businesses and then explain what we do if we might be able to help them.” X. “But on the flip side, you have no idea what we do to say you aren’t interested yet.” Eyes, laughy face. And then Dom wrote a long response to her and [laughter] but it’s just like, it’s just not…


0:27:27.7 Mike Vacanti: His point, which is so spot on, is like, make content, provide value, educate people, entertain people, have people come to you and then offer what you offer. It’s gonna be much easier to “convert.” It’s also gonna feel better. It’s gonna require less time. It’s gonna be like more fulfilling in the process. You’re gonna be burdening fewer people. It’s just… Yeah, I thought that was a fun example.


0:27:57.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude. 100%. Listen I… The thing with cold DMing, if you really want to try it, it’s fine, but I could not recommend more. If you’re gonna cold DM, cold DM someone that you know, cold DM someone that you have a history with, whether they were a childhood friend or a roommate or a colleague. And don’t say… Don’t expect to make a sale. I would cold DM someone to see how they’re doing. “Hey, how are you?”


0:28:33.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t even think of that as a cold DM.


0:28:36.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s just like a checkup and let’s say, “Hey, how’s it going? Oh, it’s so great to hear from you. What are you doing? Blah, blah, blah.” If they don’t ask what you do or anything about you, you do not say, “Hey, by the way, I’m coaching now. Do you wanna work?” That’s not, it’s purely to catch up. And the number of times that, earlier in my career when I would just reach out to someone, I’d say, “Hey, haven’t heard from you in a while. I hope everything’s going well.” The number of times that people would reach back out and say, “Oh my God, it’s so great to hear from you,” blah, blah blah. Wow. Like I see that you’re coaching people. I’ve actually been looking for a personal trainer. Do you think you could help?” Dude, that happened. That’s how I got the vast majority of my first clients.


0:29:18.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s just reaching out, letting them know that I’m making content without telling them, just reach out. And then they go to my page and they see. So it’s like partly a catch up, then they’ll also see the free content that I’ve put out already, and then they’ll decide through that, that they wanna work with me. ‘Cause they already trust me. I don’t like the cold DM someone that you’ve never met, you’ve never spoken to, you have no idea what they’re struggling with or what they’re going through, and trying to get them in your program. I think it’s a really bad idea. So, and I love the way Dom handled that.


0:29:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, absolutely.


0:29:51.7 Jordan Syatt: What else, what do you got, Mike? What do you see going on in the streets? What do you see going on in the gym? When you go to the gym and you’re there, you’re looking around, you’re seeing what’s going on in culture, gym culture. Are you seeing any good technique, bad technique? People have enjoyed like our discussions on technique for different movements. Have you seen anyone doing something good, doing something bad?


0:30:17.5 Mike Vacanti: I am seeing better and better technique, better and better exercise selection. I’m just seeing way more competency in the gym. And it’s funny that you asked that because I just did a PM session in that like 2:00 to kinda 3:30 PM window today, which isn’t a time I’m normally there. And there was more of a young crowd, probably… Definitely some high schoolers, potentially a couple maybe like seventh, eighth, ninth graders, college kids in there. And yeah, I’m seeing people who have a much better understanding than we did at younger ages than most people did at younger ages. I’m also seeing like the style, I’ve mentioned this before, but it just, I’m really starting to feel old.


0:31:16.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, what people are wearing, the haircuts and all that?




0:31:20.0 Mike Vacanti: The mean…


0:31:21.7 Jordan Syatt: The broccoli haircut?


0:31:23.6 Mike Vacanti: Did we talk about this on the podcast?


0:31:26.4 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think so.




0:31:27.9 Mike Vacanti: Oh my gosh.




0:31:31.9 Mike Vacanti: So let’s try. David, if we can coordinate getting this on the screen too. It’s a picture of… It’s a bunch of dogs, taking poops with broccoli on their head and with a cross earring, and they’re sumo deadlifting with this rounded lumbar.




0:31:49.1 Mike Vacanti: And they’re like placed all over this yard. It is the… ‘Cause when I sent that to you, you were at a gym a few months ago. You were at a gym…


0:31:55.9 Jordan Syatt: I was in Atlanta.


0:31:57.1 Mike Vacanti: In Atlanta. You were in Atlanta. And you’re like, “Dude, I’m looking around this gym and everyone has this haircut.”


0:32:03.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I didn’t realize it until you sent me the meme. It was crazy.


0:32:07.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. The things that I was telling you about a year ago, right? Like high socks tucked into leggings, like pump covers, like all of these things that have been bubbling up. I’m seeing like 30-year-olds doing now.


0:32:24.8 Jordan Syatt: Really?


0:32:27.3 Mike Vacanti: And older, like in their 40s.




0:32:32.0 Mike Vacanti: Like it’s…


0:32:35.0 Jordan Syatt: [laughing] “And older!”


0:32:35.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:32:37.3 Jordan Syatt: If you’re not watching on YouTube, you’re missing these facial expressions. You’re missing out, and older.


0:32:42.6 Mike Vacanti: So that’s a big thing that I’m seeing.


0:32:44.6 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.


0:32:45.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Just a lot of like… I love… I like seeing people who clearly are brand new and have no idea what they’re doing and are in there like, walking on the treadmill or like, trying to figure something out, like that makes me really, really happy.


0:33:06.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:33:07.0 Mike Vacanti: And there’s always some of that and so that’s awesome. Yeah, I don’t know ’cause I’m not in these spaces, but I feel like gym culture gets a bad rap, whereas I see it as one of the most like open, inviting, helpful, welcoming, diverse, like, nothing else matters spaces, in like of any environment in the world…


0:33:36.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:33:38.1 Mike Vacanti: At the gyms that I frequent. And, yeah. It’s cool.


0:33:42.5 Jordan Syatt: Have you seen anyone using like, doing… Have you seen anyone doing an exercise where you’re like, “Oh, that’s a good exercise. I haven’t seen anyone doing that in a while”?


0:33:51.1 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s not, I haven’t seen anyone doing that in a while. It’s always new stuff.


0:33:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. Like what?


0:34:00.4 Mike Vacanti: I mean, this isn’t recent, but probably two years ago, I remember the first time I saw someone do a single arm… A half-kneeling single arm horizontal cable row, next or at the seated cable row machine, so they could like wedge their hip in behind it for support. Half-kneeling on the ground and single arm rowing. That was the first time I saw that set up.


0:34:22.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:34:22.8 Mike Vacanti: And it was like a 16-year-old. I was like, “I like that.” I was like, “Where’d you learn that move?” He was like, “TikTok.” I was like, “Cool. Nice.”




0:34:34.3 Mike Vacanti: Seeing people take sets close to failure. Saw probably a high school girl taking a seated shoulder press to like a grindy last rep.


0:34:50.5 Jordan Syatt: Wow.


0:34:50.5 Mike Vacanti: I thought that was cool.


0:34:51.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s awesome.


0:34:52.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s definitely not something I would’ve seen 10 years ago.


0:34:55.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:34:56.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s what I’m seeing in the gym.


0:34:58.2 Jordan Syatt: You got some good things going on in your gyms. I like that. Yeah. It definitely speaks very highly to the level of knowledge that the average gym goer now has. ‘Cause I remember when I was younger, just like seeing someone deadlift used to be rare. Dude, I never… I’ll never forget this. In my college gym, this is what? 2000… 2010, I think. 2010, I walked in the gym on my college campus, University of Delaware campus.


0:35:30.9 Jordan Syatt: And I’m… I hated school. I hated it. I didn’t wanna be there. I was angry. I’m putting my Chuck Taylors on, I’m about to deadlift and I see two dudes in a squat rack near me wearing Chuck Taylors and deadlifting. And we just looked at each other and we nodded, and we smiled. And then those two dudes became some of my best friends and we ended up starting the powerlifting team together.


0:35:56.3 Jordan Syatt: But the noticing that they were like consuming the same content that I was consuming, that like, we were all there to do the same thing and no one else. Like people at that time were using the squat rack for curls. They were using the squat rack to stretch in, for fuck’s sake. They were using the squat rack for chin-ups, when there were chin-up bars all over the fucking gym. They were using the squat rack for WODs. They would just be in the squat rack for 30 minutes doing a circuit.


0:36:23.5 Jordan Syatt: Now, it’s like, it’s pretty definitive across the board. Any gym I go to, it’s like the squat rack is for big compound lifts. But it wasn’t, like, what? 10-11-12 years ago. Walking in, seeing other people deadlifting, that was like a, you know what’s up. Now it’s just so common. Whether it’s barbell deadlifts. I saw a guy today, couple hours ago, doing kettlebell deadlifts. It’s just, it’s crazy the level of knowledge that the average gym goer has now.


0:36:55.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. More information, more good information readily available all over the place.


0:37:02.0 Jordan Syatt: You know what exercise I think is underrated, that I think it’s gotten a lot of hate recently? Especially during the hypertrophy craze, like muscle growth phase, the craze going on right now, everything has to be, like, every exercise has to be optimal for building bigger, is cable pull-throughs.


0:37:22.2 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I added them today on top of my already grueling workout. I was telling you, I was having like a little bit of a low back/hip thing. And something in me was like, this is gonna feel good. Like, I’m just gonna go 3 x 15. I’m gonna get a glute pump here…


0:37:38.5 Jordan Syatt: Yep, yep.


0:37:39.4 Mike Vacanti: And it felt really good. But keep going because I completely agree.


0:37:43.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, cable pull-throughs, they’ve gotten so much hate from the hypertrophy crowd being like, “You can’t maximally load the glute da da da da. It’s much better to… ” it’s like, okay, not everything has to be maximally loading the muscle. And actually, like you said, I did cable pull-throughs last night as part of my lower body day. Dude, my back ends up feeling so good. I get a great glute pump. I immediately feel, overall, better back, hips, knees, everything. And I think from a teaching the hip hinge perspective, from a muscle recruitment perspective, from an athleticism perspective, from a back health traction on the spine perspective, it’s a really amazing exercise. And…


0:38:29.5 Mike Vacanti: Talk me through stance width. Are the toes pointed anywhere specific? Upper body lean? Like what are you doing? What are you thinking on those?


0:38:38.2 Jordan Syatt: So I go slightly wider than shoulder width. Not crazy, slightly wider, slight external rotation at the toes. They’re not pointing straight forward, but they’re really, they’re not super far out. It’s not 45 degrees. It’s like maybe like 25 to 30 degree external rotation. And I try and keep a slightly straighter leg. And there’s definitely a time and a place for a little bit more of a bent leg as well, more of like a deadlift style… Like I’m doing a little bit more of a Romanian deadlift style pull-through, where the knees are more soft. They’re not fully, like they’re not bending as much. It gets a much bigger hamstring stretch, which I really like.


0:39:20.0 Jordan Syatt: And it allows me to actually get a little bit more range through my lower back, which for me personally I want, I want a little bit more lumbar work, a little bit more erector work. And especially because it’s not super, super heavy. It’s not, and you get a lot of traction on the spine. So that, for me, it has been great for improving my mobility, improving my toe touch, improving hamstring mobility, flexibility, making my back and hips feel better, and also getting a ridiculous glute pump. So yeah, I think cable pull-throughs are severely underrated at this point in time.


0:39:52.2 Mike Vacanti: I agree. I’m a fan.


0:39:54.3 Jordan Syatt: Maybe we’ll title this episode, The Most Underrated Lower Body Exercise.


0:39:58.9 Mike Vacanti: That would be a play. It’s one of them.


0:40:01.3 Jordan Syatt: Listen, Mike, I’m a high ticket closer. We gotta high ticket close this episode.


0:40:08.9 Mike Vacanti: Are we high ticket closing this episode?


0:40:12.8 Jordan Syatt: No, we’re just gonna close it. We’re not high ticket closing it, just closing it.


0:40:15.6 Mike Vacanti: Oh, but do we have to close?


0:40:16.9 Jordan Syatt: No, you can keep going if you want.


0:40:18.9 Mike Vacanti: I have one more observation about the gym that I wanted to bring up previously.


0:40:26.5 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:40:26.7 Mike Vacanti: And like a couple of weeks ago, and I forgot. Commercial gyms at certain times in this day and age, I’m not telling anyone what to do. I’m not…


0:40:43.0 Jordan Syatt: I know where this is going.


0:40:46.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m not telling you what to wear. I’m not, but bro, there is so much skin and tightness and sexualization all over the place that like, I don’t remember where I was, but I remember thinking like, I’m so glad I don’t have to train here regularly because it’s too much for me.


0:41:13.8 Jordan Syatt: Distracting.


0:41:14.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s distracting. Well, it is and it’s not. Like, I almost like it as like a test of moral… Like, “Oh, okay…”


0:41:24.8 Jordan Syatt: “I’m not gonna look. I’m not looking.”


0:41:26.3 Mike Vacanti: “I’m going to the opposite side of the gym and I’m doing my…” But like, it makes me grateful for the crew at my smaller gym that I most regularly frequent. But yeah, man, the attire is really going places, huh?


0:41:48.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s distracting. And again, like wear whatever you want. My thing is, the only time I get upset is when someone is wearing something that’s very distracting, right? It’s like, there’s a lot of skin being shown and then they get mad that people are looking. It’s like, listen, if someone walked in here, if I walked in the gym only wearing a thong, you’d look because there’s a lot of skin showing. Right?


0:42:17.4 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t look. Just…


0:42:20.0 Jordan Syatt: You would definitely look. You’d be like, “Holy shit.” Then you’d quickly turn away and be like, “What is going on?” And it’s the same concept. The more skin that someone is showing, the more you’re gonna look. Like, that’s how we are designed as humans. Like, this isn’t weird. So of course, people are going to look when that… Like if there’s something that is out of the norm, people are going to look. You often don’t see it as much on a beach, for example, because so many people are having… They have so much skin showing. So you don’t see as much staring as people go by.


0:42:50.9 Jordan Syatt: It is there, but not as much. But when you’re in a situation in which clothes are the norm and someone is not wearing as many clothes, of course, people are gonna look. And if that’s what you wanna wear, fine. But then don’t feign this ignorance of like, “I don’t know why they’re staring.” Well, it’s pretty fucking obvious why they’re staring and you’ve chosen to wear that. So like, I don’t know what you want. I don’t know what you want us to do.


0:43:15.4 Mike Vacanti: By the way, I don’t… I might’ve misrepresented what I was saying… Like, I even think a certain degree of skin is okay. We’re talking like…


0:43:27.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, a lot, yeah.


0:43:27.9 Mike Vacanti: Colors and textures, and fabric thickness that you might as well be naked, might as well be in the nude, in the gym. And down in Florida, at some of those commercial gyms where like body suits with the… It’s like… Anyway, stay strong, my brothers.




0:43:50.8 Mike Vacanti: Stay strong and walk the narrow road with me because there’s a lot going on out there.


0:43:58.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s a crazy world.


0:44:00.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s not leading you anywhere good.


0:44:01.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, thank you, everyone for listening. Hope you enjoyed the episode.




0:44:04.2 Mike Vacanti: And that’s how we’re wrapping the episode. We are wrapping it right here. Please leave a one-star review. Cancel your mentorship. I’m sure it was great…


0:44:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Thank you for listening. We appreciate you. Have a wonderful week and we’ll talk to you soon.


0:44:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Goodbye.

Learn How To Become A Personal Trainer

Join our mailing list to receive the latest episodes and tools to become a personal trainer.

You have Successfully Subscribed!