Episode 134: How to Make More Money While Doing Zero Extra Work (Seriously), Grip Strength Myths & Facts, The Best Exercises for Balance, & More…

0:00:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:05.8 Jordan Syatt: What’s up Michael?

0:00:13.4 Mike Vacanti: Welcome back to the How to Become a Personal Trainer Podcast with your hosts, Jordan and Michael.

[laughter]

0:00:19.4 Jordan Syatt: If you’re listening on 1.5 or 2X speed, that’s gonna sound outrageously fast.

0:00:23.8 Mike Vacanti: Jordan and Michael?

0:00:25.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:00:26.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s gonna be a fast episode. Gonna get a lot in here. It’s gonna be a real good one. First of all, what kind of artificial sweetener are you sipping on right now?

0:00:33.5 Jordan Syatt: Just a little diet Coke, yeah a little aspartame.

0:00:38.1 Mike Vacanti: Ooh. Really nice. What about you here I have, yeah.

0:00:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh. Wow.

0:00:43.4 Mike Vacanti: Muscle Milk Pro Series 40. My go-to…

0:00:43.4 Jordan Syatt: Protein.

0:00:43.3 Mike Vacanti: Go-to post-workout. I actually don’t even know, I think there’s Sucralose sucrose and Ace-K in this one, if I had to guess. Yep. Sucralose. Yep. Ace-K.

0:00:56.6 Jordan Syatt: Pretty low on that potential carcinogen list.

0:01:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Very low. Very low.

[laughter]

0:01:01.0 Mike Vacanti: If… Yeah, [laughter] if there’s anyone out there watching or listening who is an avid avoider of artificial sweeteners, but simultaneously housing 20 to 30 drinks per week.

0:01:16.0 Jordan Syatt: You got your shit fucked up.

0:01:20.3 Mike Vacanti: Nah, no. To each eat their own, actually.

0:01:22.8 Jordan Syatt: No. You got your shit fucked up.

[laughter]

0:01:29.6 Mike Vacanti: People can make their own risk assessment.

0:01:31.4 Jordan Syatt: 20 to 30 a week… Your shit is fucked at 20 or 30 a week. That’s a lot.

0:01:35.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m not…

0:01:36.3 Jordan Syatt: 10 to 20. I would’ve been like.

0:01:38.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m not here to judge.

0:01:39.2 Jordan Syatt: You need to get your stuff together today. We’re just facts…

0:01:42.7 Mike Vacanti: We’re not judging today.

0:01:43.8 Jordan Syatt: And I drink I drank last night. I had three drinks last night. My shit’s fucked today.

0:01:47.8 Mike Vacanti: I had a sip of wine last night.

0:01:49.4 Jordan Syatt: You had some wine last night?

0:01:50.8 Mike Vacanti: A sip.

0:01:51.6 Jordan Syatt: Just one sip?

0:01:52.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:01:53.4 Jordan Syatt: Were you with Gary? You had dinner with Gary last night?

0:01:56.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:01:57.3 Jordan Syatt: And he was like, “here, try some wine”?

0:01:58.9 Mike Vacanti: No, I just wanted to, it smelled really good and he ordered a bunch of bottles for the table, so I assumed they were good. So I wanted a little. Little sip. It was a good red wine.

0:02:08.7 Jordan Syatt: Did he look at them the wine menu before and really analyzed it and was like “okay, I want these types of wines.” Was it a, it took a long process or he was just, “ah, whatever you want”?

0:02:19.8 Mike Vacanti: So we’re at the National Sports Card and Collectible Convention in Chicago. And it was a full day yesterday, although my flight was delayed, so I ended up not getting in until 6:00 PM. So I only made it to the last hour of the show. But then the whole VeeFriends team and Vayner, everything was out to dinner. There were probably 25, 30 of us.

0:02:40.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow.

0:02:41.9 Mike Vacanti: And Gary had me sitting right next to him for accountability and he’s, I want these dinners to be dialed. I was, great. They’ll be dialed. And no, actually it was busy at the restaurant. So when the server was taking drink orders, Gary asked for a wine menu and he said, this’ll only take two seconds, I’ll just pick right now. And he looked down the list and he was, could we please do you know this one? We’ll have two bottles please. And then this one.

0:03:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice.

0:03:06.6 Mike Vacanti: I would imagine he can… He could do that blindfolded with all of his…

0:03:10.6 Jordan Syatt: Experience. Yeah.

0:03:12.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:03:13.7 Jordan Syatt: Was it a red or white that you had?

0:03:16.3 Mike Vacanti: Red.

0:03:17.1 Jordan Syatt: Did you like it?

0:03:17.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was tasty.

0:03:19.3 Jordan Syatt: Nice. But you didn’t say, “Hey, I’ll have a glass.” You just wanted one sip?

0:03:23.4 Mike Vacanti: I don’t like alcohol.

0:03:25.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:03:25.7 Mike Vacanti: I just don’t. In 2017, I made a YouTube video impulsively on the beach in Cabo San Lucas with Ben Hanratty, shout out Ben, at seven o’clock in the morning after I was basically throwing up for 24 straight hours from alcohol and dehydration and I said, I’m never gonna get drunk again. And in the six years since I’ve probably had more than three drinks, less than five times, probably three times. And every time it was, no hard alcohol, just five White Claws or whatever. Yeah. [laughter]

0:04:08.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Nice.

0:04:10.7 Mike Vacanti: What should we talk about? There’s so many options for this podcast. Actually, we have an announcement. First of all, we have an announcement because we got an email, I can’t find the exact email right now, but it was of the effect of.

[laughter]

0:04:27.8 Mike Vacanti: It was a fellow who listens to the pod and he was asking questions about how to grow his online fitness business and coaching type questions and business and social media related questions. And then a few hours later responded again and said, actually, I just read your PDF, which is the lead magnet for signing up for our email list where there’s a link in the description. And he said, “I just read it 30 ways to build your online business. And it answered all of my questions. I’m literally good to go. Thank you guys so much for making that” and yeah.

0:04:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Let’s go.

0:05:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Anyone who, yeah, we never push this thing, but get positive feedback on it. So I figured.

0:05:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Man I should push that.

0:05:05.3 Mike Vacanti: We don’t email either. We’re not gonna bother you.

0:05:06.9 Jordan Syatt: I will push that my story.

0:05:08.7 Mike Vacanti: Not gonna bother you unless there’s a sale. Letting you know that there’s lower prices available for you. But, yeah, just to get the PDF it makes sense.

0:05:18.2 Jordan Syatt: Nice.

0:05:19.5 Mike Vacanti: Tell me if you experience this anytime I’m not tracking for an extended period of time tracking nutrition, and then for a week I start tracking again. I realize how bad I am at just estimating and chugging along.

0:05:38.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude. A 100%.

0:05:39.5 Mike Vacanti: Every single time.

0:05:40.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:05:41.3 Mike Vacanti: And within a week or two, I feel drastically different. I was eating 100s more calories than I thought without knowing it. Even with the level of experience that I have.

0:05:50.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Every single time. Yeah. It’s ’cause when you’re not tracking, it’s so easy. Oh, I’ll grab a snack here, I’ll have a couple extra bites here, whatever. And that stuff adds up so unbelievably fast. It never ceases to amaze me. It also ceases to amaze me how relatively slowly I gain weight. Even when I do that. And I’m, holy shit. This takes a while. It takes a while of eating a lot of extra calories in order to… I don’t really think that it’s as simple as an extra 3500 calories equals a pound of fat. And I know it’s not that simple, but in my own experience, it’s not that simple either, because as you increase your calories, you’ll often increase your energy output.

0:06:30.9 Jordan Syatt: And not even just energy output in terms of movement, but even in terms of brain activity, like thinking more, processing more, more conversations, just, and all of that requires more energy. So the extra 3500 leads to a pound of fat, I think is actually, it’s probably, I think, closer to maybe an extra 5500 to 6500. Might lead to a pound of fat which like, that takes a while to really add on. Not to mention if you’re also lifting heavy and able to build muscle at the same time. So you’re gaining weight, but not just fat. So also muscle on top of it, bone density, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. It takes a while for that stuff to really pack on. It’s pretty crazy.

0:07:17.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s a great point. Thermic effect as well. Like thinking, movement, better lifts, building muscle, higher TEF. Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was more than 5500.

0:07:30.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:07:30.8 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in the 5000 to 10,000 calorie range.

0:07:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:07:36.1 Mike Vacanti: Depending on how your behavior changes. Especially as a result of the increase in calories, which varies from person to person. But as soon as I, or even you know… With so many clients, like clients who are, especially long-term clients who have tracked before, have seen great progress and then are content and then in longer maintenance phases, but then for whatever reason want to get dialed back in, gained a little bit too much body fat over a long period of time, have a vacation coming up, whatever the case may be, start tracking again and immediately realize like, “Man, I was eating more than I thought I was.” And it’s kind of cool how quickly you see progress when you start tracking again.

0:08:18.9 Jordan Syatt: You’ll laugh. I’m not gonna say the guy’s name, you know who exactly who I’m talking about. This guy has been.

0:08:23.8 Mike Vacanti: Good then I’m gonna say his name.

0:08:24.4 Jordan Syatt: Going to jiu-jitsu with me, not with me, but he goes to jiu-jitsu around the same time that I do.

0:08:32.6 Mike Vacanti: Alex Martins.

0:08:37.6 Jordan Syatt: Who also…

[laughter]

0:08:37.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s… Alex Martins is my coach. He is there.

0:08:37.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, no, no, no. It’s not Alex [laughter] I gotcha.

0:08:37.8 Jordan Syatt: Alex Martins is my coach. There’s someone else who goes to jiu-jitsu around the same time that I do who also has a big social media audience, but we are in very different fields, very different. And he came in today. [laughter]

0:08:55.0 Jordan Syatt: And the first thing he says, he’s like, “Urgh, doing a 72-hour fast, really grumpy.” And I just wanted to be like, “Number one, why did you announce that?” That’s like the weird… It’d be like if I just came in and be like, “Urgh, just had a salad feeling pretty full.”

[laughter]

0:09:16.0 Jordan Syatt: Like why did you announce it? And I know why you announced it. You want people to think you’re like really hard. And he goes, I’m… And then when he said, I’m really grumpy, I was like, I wanted to say, “So don’t fucking fast.” Like you don’t need to fucking fast. If you wanna do a day-long fast, or even if you wanna do a three-day fast, fine. But then don’t tell everyone how grumpy you are because of it. Like come on, if you wanna do it and you wanna do it ’cause you think it’s awesome, then do it and shut up. But then he was like, “Yeah, fast and jiu-jitsu and… ” He goes, “Fasting and jiu-jitsu. Best combo ever.” I’m like, “Bro, you’ve been doing jiu-jitsu for three months. Like what the hell are you… ” [laughter] I was like [laughter]..

0:10:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Did you ask him why he’s fasting?

0:10:02.0 Jordan Syatt: No, I don’t care to have that conversation at all. I was just… I was thinking when you were talking about tracking and calorie deficits, blah, blah, blah. And then, I remember this morning what happened? I was, fucking.

[laughter]

0:10:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Shut up.

[laughter]

0:10:18.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s like, you know when someone does intermittent fasting because they’ll tell you, you know when someone’s a vegan because they’ll tell you, you know when someone does carnivore because they’ll tell you. It’s like, you know when someone does CrossFit because they’ll tell you, it’s like no one cares.

0:10:32.9 Mike Vacanti: And 72-hour fasting is… I highly doubt he’s doing it for religious purposes, but…

0:10:41.3 Jordan Syatt: No. He’s not.

[laughter]

0:10:44.6 Jordan Syatt: I know that for a fact.

[laughter]

0:10:49.8 Mike Vacanti: Because there’s definitely merit in the spiritual side of things in term… Like many religions going way back have used fasting for various reasons. But from a health perspective, especially extended fast, 72-hour and beyond, even like 36-hour and beyond, for fat loss and for body composition, just completely unnecessary and usually… Almost always suboptimal not as sustainable. Yeah.

0:11:24.1 Jordan Syatt: What is the longest fast you’ve ever done?

0:11:28.2 Mike Vacanti: I think around 40. I think I tried that a couple of times, but not for body comp. I mean you’re… It’s literally, if you look at the calorie deficit you create over a two week window by having a 72-hour fast and then fill in the other 11 days, however you like to create a calorie deficit of X and compare that to a two-week window with the same calorie deficit, but you eat every single day, so you eat all 14 days. The body composition results and as a result, the health improvements over the long run of simply being in the same deficit, but eating every day is so much better. It’s better from a lifestyle perspective. It’s better for managing energy and how you’re gonna feel.

0:12:17.6 Jordan Syatt: Protein synthesis, all that.

0:12:19.2 Mike Vacanti: Of course maintaining muscle, like that’s one of the bigger aspects of it.

0:12:23.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:12:26.1 Mike Vacanti: Just goofy. And what’s especially funny is… And I was hesitant to even say this, but I’m just gonna say it.

0:12:31.8 Jordan Syatt: Say it.

0:12:32.5 Mike Vacanti: And if you’re a… Well, no, it’s nothing really. But I remember being… I remember for many years of my life being averse to anyone bringing up religion in any kind of like trying to make a point until I heard Jordan Peterson’s Bible lecture series talking about analyzing the Bible almost as a work of fiction and saying there are still things that you can take from it. If you’re a devout atheist, I think you can learn a lot from what I’m about to say, which is in the New Testament, there’s explicit instruction saying when you fast something along the lines of like when you’re fasting, put oil on your head so people don’t know that you’re fasting. Do not announce that you’re fasting like the hypocrites. Something along those lines. It’s just like case in point.

0:13:16.8 Mike Vacanti: This fast is so brutal. You want praise for this hard thing you’re doing rather than doing it for whatever the actual reason is.

0:13:26.2 Jordan Syatt: Yourself. Yeah. That’s exactly right. God, this fast.

[laughter]

0:13:31.9 Jordan Syatt: Really grumpy today. Oh, cool. [laughter]

0:13:35.4 Mike Vacanti: Nice. All right. You wanna roll?

[laughter]

0:13:38.6 Jordan Syatt: Wanna talk about grip strength, Michael?

0:13:42.4 Mike Vacanti: Let’s talk about grip strength.

0:13:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Let’s dive in.

0:13:45.1 Mike Vacanti: ‘Cause you got a gripper right there. Does grip strength make you healthier?

0:13:49.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s a great question. It’s a very, very highly spoken about topic as of late. I’ve got right here my little Captains of Crush. Have you used these, by the way? This specific one, the Captains of Crush? These are no joke. These are not like the ones you get at a CVS or a Walgreens or on Amazon. These are the Captains of Crush. I like them a lot…

0:14:12.5 Mike Vacanti: This is not a sponsored post by the way.

0:14:14.4 Jordan Syatt: This is not sponsored at all. This was a gift to me from my friend, Mike Perry. He’s the owner of Skill of Strength in Boston.

0:14:21.2 Jordan Syatt: Anyway, grip strength is very important. And it can make you a healthier individual, but not for the reasons that many people have heard or that many people think. When you look at research, it’s very clear that generally speaking, people with a higher grip strength tend to live longer and people with a weaker grip strength are more likely to die as they age. But you really have to think about why is that? What’s going on? And we have to understand the difference between correlation and causation. It’s not that people with a weak grip are just dying because they have a weak grip. It’s not like they’re having heart attacks. It’s not like they’re having aneurysms. It’s not like they’re just dying out of nowhere from illness because they have a weak grip. There are many things that can impact it. For example, number one, if someone has a weak grip, then odds are they are more likely if they’re gonna fall. And falls are one of the biggest reasons that people die as they get older.

0:15:26.1 Jordan Syatt: A fall, they break their hip, they break something, then it goes downhill from there. If someone has a weak grip and they’re falling, it’s much harder for them to grab on and hold on to actually stabilize themselves to prevent that fall. Another thing is if you’re measuring people’s grip strength and you’re measuring people who are… Especially as they get older, if someone is sick, then they’re probably gonna have a weaker grip. If someone is sick, they’re immunocompromised, whatever’s going on, generally speaking, they’re gonna have a weaker grip. Just like if you’ve ever been sick, you feel weak. Even when you go back to the gym after a time of being sick, you feel weak. You often are weaker than you were before. So if someone’s already sick and they have a weak grip as a result of being sick, then they’re more likely to die, not because of the weak grip, but because they’re sick. And especially as they get older, then it becomes more and more dangerous as they get older and as they get more and more sick. So having a strong grip is very important for your health, important for your activities of daily living, especially as you get older. But my concern when people hear that having a strong grip makes you healthier is that they’re just like,”Okay, I just need to do this. All the time.”

0:16:28.6 Jordan Syatt: “This is the only exercise I need. Or I’ll do dead hangs. I’ll just hang from a chin up bar.” That’s a very common one that I see, which for me is comical because I’m like,”Well, how about instead of hanging there, you actually do some chin ups or how about you do some inverted rows or you do some dumbbell rows. Where you’re actually not just working your grip, but you’re also working your back. You’re also improving your posture. You’re also getting stronger in these huge muscle groups. You’re not just working the muscles of your hand and there’s nothing wrong with this. I like to have this in my office so I can do a couple of reps here and there throughout the day, sort of grease the groove.” But if a huge portion of your training time is spent just holding on to shit for the sole purpose of trying to get your grip stronger, you’re missing the forest for the trees. A stronger grip can improve your health, but not because a strong grip just inherently improves your health. It’s because a strong grip and having a stronger muscles overall and working out overall will lead to better health. It’s not just the grip strength.

0:17:29.4 Mike Vacanti: Well said,”Grip strength is highly correlated with physical fitness in general, with strength of the entire body, with total amount of lean mass.” And so it’s very likely that because grip strength is easy to measure, much easier than one rep max testing a barbell back squat or other forms of testing strength because it’s easier to measure. And there’s higher reliability, there aren’t technique issues, there are on other exercise. It’s pretty straightforward. It’s easier to use as a metric for strength in a lot of these trials. And so it’s not that you shouldn’t have a strong grip, a strong grip is a very good thing, but the pendulum swinging too far over to… Okay, I’m gonna have a significant portion of my training program be dedicated to improving grip strength. Lots of carries, lots of rice buckets, lots of overhead dead hangs, lots of these in the gym. When you could be improving grip strength as part of a well-balanced training program where you’re also improving lower body strength, where we know total amount of lean mass in the legs is also directly associated with lower all cause mortality. So having more muscle and more strength in the lower body as you get older, having better balance, which is another way to help prevent falls. You should be focused on all of these things rather than hearing grip strength associated living longer and then dedicating an imbalanced percentage of your training program to improving your grip strength.

0:19:19.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, completely. And you just brought something else up that goes in this conversation well, the conversation around balance. Because every time I speak about how strength training is important for living longer and for preventing falls and stuff like that, there’s always at least one person who says, so is balance, so is balance, not just strength training. And I agree, yes, balance is important, but what often these people are misunderstanding is they think that they need to be trained separately. You can train strength and balance at the same time. It various very as simple as like… If we’re looking at balance, balance is in part a function of strength. If you don’t have the strength to hold yourself in a certain position, then you can’t balance.

0:20:02.4 Jordan Syatt: A prerequisite for balance is sufficient strength. So if you’re trying to build balance on top of insufficient strength, it’s like trying to fire a canon out of a canoe. You just can’t do it. It’s like when you try and fire that canon out of the canoe, the canoe is gonna just completely go backwards. It’s gonna screw the whole thing up.

0:20:29.2 Jordan Syatt: It’d be like if someone doesn’t have enough strength or stability in their ankle, for example, around like the ankle muscle, the muscles around the ankle, and that joint, then how can you expect them to balance if they can’t stabilize themselves? So even something as simple as a lunge, for example, is a great way to obviously build strength and balance. You do both at the exact same time. I think when they say, don’t forget balance, don’t forget balance, they think that the best thing you can do is just try and have them stand on one foot or stand on a wobble board, which nevermind the potential issues and risks and dangers associated with that. But balance not only is a function of strength, it’s also very demand-specific. So if you train balance on a wobble board, then that’s what you’re gonna get really good at.

0:21:15.3 Jordan Syatt: You’re gonna get really good at balancing on a wobble board. But if you train lunges and step ups and lateral lunges and these types of movements, the things that we actually do in real life, I mean, if you think about it, when you walk off of a curb, that’s essentially like you’re doing a step down. If you step onto the curb, you’re doing a step up. If you’re walking up the stairs, you’re doing step ups. Everything that we do is essentially a single leg type movement. So more single leg stability type training is going to help with balance, in addition to strength. So when people really freak out over balance… It happens a lot whenever I talk about it, I’m like, you realize you could just do both at the same time rather than doing it separately.

0:21:55.4 Mike Vacanti: 100%. And all of the lower body movements you just listed are great ways to improve both your strength and balance.

0:22:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Single leg RDL is a good one. The number of times, even like at the airport coming out here where I’m realizing, I’m in a long line, I set my bag down, I don’t wanna be holding it, I pick it back up. I’m like, oh, that’s a 20 pound single leg RDL right there. Like it’s very practical in day-to-day life.

0:22:20.8 Jordan Syatt: You know what I think is a very underrated exercise is step downs, going onto like a small elevated box or elevated surface, a small one, like between like three to six inches and doing a slow controlled step down and starting off with just body weight and progressing to a little bit of added weight. You don’t need much, but learning to control yourself and absorb the force in the ground and balance. Like that’s… I think especially as people get older, that should be like, probably even more important than step ups. ‘Cause most people will fall stepping down, not stepping up. And if they do fall stepping up, like Biden for example, this is the perfect example. When Biden fell going up the staircase, he didn’t fall down. He fell going up and he was actually able to pick himself up, which for an 80 plus year old man that was like, he was fine, right? Like it’s not like not a great thing to see, but like he fell going up and it was totally fine. Whereas if he fell going down, that would’ve been a big fucking problem.

0:23:21.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. And obviously, a three to six inch step down, if you are younger and capable of doing more, do more, right? Like you can take that through a full range of motion. You can load it, you can do a step up with a controlled eccentric. So you’re essentially hitting both, like there are… I assume you’re not recommending… You’re recommending that for an older population where that is a reasonable level of intensity, doing a three inch step down.

0:23:56.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Either older or potentially people who have real joint issues and need to work on working through a certain range. But yeah, generally an older population. For a younger, more athletic population, I would probably prefer walking forward lunges because you get the same like the… You have to absorb that impact force. You have to absorb the ground reaction force. When you do that walking forward lunge over and over and over again, you’re very much mimicking that, but you actually have a greater range of motion and probably get more out of that exercise.

0:24:29.5 Mike Vacanti: Man, it’s too bad walking forward. Lunges are so brutal.

0:24:32.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I get so sore from those.

0:24:34.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:24:35.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:24:36.1 Mike Vacanti: Sweet.

0:24:36.5 Jordan Syatt: What’d you do today for your workout?

0:24:39.7 Mike Vacanti: So next week I’m starting that Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. And so I took… And I’m on the road, hotel gym. I’m taking volume down across the board and did a little pull day, a little back and biceps day on Tuesday. Today’s Thursday, I just hit up three exercises on a push day, incline bench, dumbbell lateral rays, and single arm cable tricep press down. And then I’m gonna hit legs on Saturday and then pick up Monday with the new programming.

0:25:10.0 Jordan Syatt: Nice. Did you go to failure today on any or all of the lifts?

0:25:14.1 Mike Vacanti: No, I didn’t go to failure on any of them. I slept like four hours last night because…

0:25:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Why?

0:25:20.1 Mike Vacanti: I was at… Well, I was at dinner until 11:00 something. And I’m on Gary’s schedule, and then I woke up at 6:00 and I just didn’t sleep good first night in the hotel. Yeah.

0:25:31.6 Jordan Syatt: That sounds like what you would not wanna be doing. If there’s something I could point to what Mike would not want to at night is to be out until 11:00 and get terrible sleep at a hotel.

[laughter]

0:25:42.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:25:43.2 Jordan Syatt: Are you doing a lot more traveling or is this one of your last trips for a while?

0:25:46.5 Mike Vacanti: No, this is my last trip for a couple of months actually so…

0:25:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, good.

0:25:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m excited to be in a nice routine and training 4x a week. But no, I actually just went in there wanting to feel good and wanting to get a little stimulus on my… I pyramid it it up. I just did one heavy set of incline dumbbell bench, and it was maybe an RPE 7.

0:26:09.2 Jordan Syatt: Nice.

0:26:09.9 Mike Vacanti: Maybe an eight, but like felt good. Had a lot of good mind-muscle going, like all the joints were feeling really good. Dumbbell lateral raises one where you can add some momentum and you can add some sloppiness and you can really, like an RPE 9 with strict form is very different than an RPE 9 where you just like do whatever.

0:26:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah.

0:26:33.0 Mike Vacanti: And I kept it pretty strict on those and no, I didn’t, I didn’t do anything crazy on the press downs.

0:26:39.5 Jordan Syatt: Nice. Oh, dude, you know what I did yesterday? This is a change of topic, but you know how we were talking about those banks that the savings accounts that have huge amounts of like…

0:26:54.0 Mike Vacanti: High interest rate.

0:26:54.7 Jordan Syatt: Of interest, like 4.5% interest or something. I put a significant chunk of change into a new savings account for two reasons. One is because I don’t want to have more than what’s insured by the FDIC, right? So I…

0:27:12.8 Mike Vacanti: Baller.

0:27:13.7 Jordan Syatt: I’m just saying, right? So I wanna move that ’cause, for any number of reasons, but did that and then also wanna be able to put my money in a bank that has a higher rate of interest return. I think that what it was in before, I don’t… You’d probably know better than me, but I think it was like 0.08 or something like present interest, maybe even less on an annual return, and this one has like a between like a 4.1 and a 5.1% return on an annual basis, which is just crazy to me. I’m like, why? I don’t know how banks work or why some have this, why some don’t, but it’s obviously not as high of an interest return as putting it into the stock market, right? As potentially like an average six to 8%, but also probably much lower risk, right? Even though like putting it into an index fund is inherently lower risk than putting it into an individual stock. I guess that’s the benefit right? There is essentially zero risk because you just definitively get four to 5% every single year.

0:28:16.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So I love that you did that. The big banks, JP Morgan, Bank of America, like their… Even their savings accounts with interest are less than 25 or 0.25%. So like you said, 0.08 or whatever it is. The downside, like you and I talked about of some high interest savings accounts is that those accounts come with high levels of restriction, meaning, you may or may… Like once you put your money in, you may or may not be able to move it before a certain amount of time, or there are penalties associated with that, or you have to jump through certain hoops to qualify for earning that interest rate. And the fact that you found one that doesn’t have those restrictions and allows you to earn four plus percent is incredible. You’re correct. There’s… Let’s not call it no risk, but I guess we could call it no risk. I mean, FDIC insured, I can’t think of what the risk would be. Like the risk-free rate is the, essentially the interest that the government pays on treasury bills, on loans. If I were to buy a two year treasury bill at whatever the percent is, that’s known as the risk-free rate. Technically the United States of America could default on that loan, but that would mean, like, that would mean really, really not good…

0:29:48.8 Jordan Syatt: There are bigger issues.

0:29:49.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. There would be bigger issues than that going on in society. And so yeah, it’s really smart if you’re… It makes sense to have some percentage of your net worth in cash for rainy day emergency for accessibility, dry powder to be on the sidelines to wait for a good investment opportunity. Many, many reasons. And if you’re going to have that cash sitting in a bank account, that’s not earning you any interest compared to earning you some interest, and four to 5% is incredible.

0:30:25.8 Jordan Syatt: Great. So…

0:30:25.9 Mike Vacanti: Really smart.

0:30:26.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And it’s based on what I’ve seen, what we’ve looked at, there’s no restrictions with this money. Like essentially it’s a savings account that you can pull money out, transfer it, take it out without any hits, without any negative issues going on or you could just keep it in there and have it continue to accrue interest on top of it. But it’s not like they lock you in. You can’t leave with that money anymore, which is very nice.

0:30:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s awesome. Smart. And something that people should consider, like it all adds up over the long run. If you haven’t played with investment calculators, looking at a 30 or 40 year window and saying, okay, I expect to go somewhat conservative and say 6% over a 35 year window starting with X dollars and see where that ends up close to “retirement age” compounding interest is crazy.

0:31:19.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. It’s one of those things that I never knew when people said, make your money work for you. I didn’t know what that meant. And then this is like one of those examples where it’s like, even if you don’t think you have enough money to be saving and earning and actually like building wealth, you don’t need that much in order to start doing it. You just need to learn how to save it, right? You just, even whether it’s $10 a week, $20 a week, a $100 a month, whatever it is, it really adds up over a significant period of time. I saw a video recently. It was basically, it was a clickbaity video, but it… They use really good imagery and basically saying, someone who really struggles with money, as soon as they get their paycheck, they buy something they don’t need, right? As soon as they get their paycheck, it’s like, let’s buy this. Let’s buy this necklace, or let’s buy this car or this jacket or pay for an apartment I can’t afford, whatever it is. Whereas the people who build wealth over time, they take that money and then they invest it into something like this, especially like a low to no risk savings account where at the end of 10, 15, 20, 30 years, you don’t touch it. It just sits there and it works for you. It literally makes money just because the more you have in there, the more you’re earning on that dollar.

0:32:40.6 Mike Vacanti: And you’re still dollar cost averaging into a couple of ETFs and have money in the stock market that you’re investing that’s higher risk, but higher expected returns, but with your cash portion of your net worth, having it in something earning interest rather than something that’s not is really smart.

0:33:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Thanks, bro.

0:33:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But… We could take this in many directions.

0:33:02.9 Jordan Syatt: Do it.

0:33:06.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, there’s… This is a topic that’s hard to give general advice on because people are in such different boats, and so there was a good podcast between Bill Perkins who wrote the book, Die With zero Zero. Who was the, I don’t think he’s a billionaire, but close, who was on the other end of the bet with the Staples Brothers with the weight loss bet.

0:33:36.4 Mike Vacanti: He was on Chris Williamson’s podcast, and I found the conversation fascinating and applicable, but I know that I am in the massive minority who that would apply to because they were talking about the personality type that over saves, that is too conservative, that focuses on working really hard to make money without enjoying that. And his concept of Die With Zero is to allocate your hard-earned money into enjoyable experiences over your entire lifetime in ways that make sense rather than grind, grind, grind, work, work, work.

0:34:19.2 Mike Vacanti: And then when you’re too old to enjoy your money, you have all this cash and stocks and everything saved up and you’re like, okay, well my body’s not in shape to go on a ski trip. Like I can’t like do some of the things that I could have done along the way. So that’s his central thesis. Most people aren’t working too hard and spending too little. Like most people, over 50% of people are living paycheck to paycheck and don’t have a month’s worth of burn rates saved up in the bank.

0:34:51.3 Mike Vacanti: And so his advice doesn’t necessarily apply to those. Something more simple along the lines of understanding the concept of sacrifice, understanding the concept of work hard and save today, and then you have a little more tomorrow. Like some people could use a little more, Hey, don’t buy that thing, and other people could use a little more, Hey, it’s okay if you enjoy that one thing over this eight month window, or whatever the case may be.

0:35:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah it’s funny, it’s so funny how similar finances are to nutrition and health where it’s like, yeah, some people like, Hey, put the fucking donut down, all right. Like, you’ve had enough. And other people are like, Hey, it’s okay to have that donut. Like, it’s fine. It’s not gonna be a big deal. And it really does change very much based on the individual. It’s they work perfectly together in terms of analogies and it would be interesting to see in life, like if there are similarities between people who struggle with nutrition in a certain way, if they also struggle with finances in a certain way to see if there’s any, carryover to that.

0:36:00.3 Mike Vacanti: That would be interesting.

0:36:00.4 Jordan Syatt: Like if people who are impulsive with food are also impulsive with money. I don’t know. That would be interesting to look at.

0:36:07.1 Mike Vacanti: That makes me think of Dopamine Nation nation and Doctor Anna Lembke’s theory on drug of choice, where, different people inherently have different “addictions”, even though there’s a wide spectrum of like a physiological addiction compared to a more mild form of addiction. But some people are just yeah, the example she uses is you could have one person who does cocaine 10 to 20 times over like a multi-year window and then just doesn’t really care for it versus someone else who does it once and they’re instantly hooked and becomes a Coke addict.

0:36:48.0 Mike Vacanti: And thinking of drug of choice to various concepts in life that, so maybe there’s overlap on impulsivity, leading to impulsivity in all of these things. Or maybe there’s, you could have people who are really good with one thing and not great with the other, or vice versa.

0:37:04.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s very interesting how that works. Some people can just, they get hooked immediately and other people are like, ah, no, I can use it like pretty sparingly. It’s like, doesn’t affect me that way.

0:37:15.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Very interesting. This reminds me, this could be interesting or not really, but it reminds me of a quote I heard recently from one of the saints that really hit, which was, “you can either increase your means or reduce your desire.”

0:37:39.0 Jordan Syatt: I like that very, like, it hit hard. What did that make you think of? Or like, how did that, how did that hit?

0:37:54.1 Mike Vacanti: For many years I was genuinely very motivated to earn more money and now I’m not at all, but even in this period of five years of zero content and like in a good spot, but plateaued, there’s a part of me that feels like I should be working harder to grow a bigger business even though I don’t want to, there’s a part of me that just feels like I should, and that’s.

0:38:27.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s the right thing to do.

0:38:27.9 Mike Vacanti: No, not even right. It doesn’t feel like it’s right. It’s almost like competition or like a keeping up with the Joneses. Or like, that’s what other people do.

0:38:38.7 Jordan Syatt: Societal norms or pressures.

0:38:40.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, societal norms is a real, like, it’s also like a weird position to be in to I guess work really hard for a number of years and then just be okay with maintenance. It’s not celebrated at all. And so that…

0:38:57.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s not only not celebrated, it’s actually actively discouraged.

0:39:03.3 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. Do you think it is?

0:39:05.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah,100%.

0:39:06.8 Mike Vacanti: How so?

0:39:06.9 Jordan Syatt: You should never be satisfied with where you are. You should never be satisfied. Always be going. Always be like, that’s like, I’ve never heard of anyone of any famous quote that’s like, yeah, get to a point which you’re comfortable and then chill. It’s like, that is not what goes bonkers on social media. It’s like, oh, never. As soon as you’re satisfied, you’re broken, you suck you’re a loser. You fuck face. Yeah.

0:39:34.8 Mike Vacanti: Social media especially I guess, is, we celebrate mass ambition to the end, but like. There’s a lot, there’s a lot to it. I have felt many times recently like if I have a roof over my head and there’s food on the table and a shirt on my back and like a loving family and like I’m really happy with the things I have, that’s okay. But I haven’t really heard anyone say that’s okay. But I’ve thought to myself, this seems okay. And then when I heard that, you can do either one. You can either reduce your desire, better car, bigger house, like the next thing, the next thing, bigger business, more followers, or you can reduce your desire for those things. It’s interesting. And I think everyone’s stopping point is different. Everyone’s threshold for security is different. A lot of that has to do with each of our upbringings and what we’ve been through. So like different financial levels, different, like what we feel like we need, what our families need. And then some people just never stop playing the game. Like Gary talks about Steve Ross, the owner of the Miami Dolphins and how he’s in his 80’s, I think he’s in his 70’s or 80’s and that guy works his face off. Like he’s just, he loves the game. And so we’re all built differently, but that quote really hit for me.

0:41:06.5 Jordan Syatt: What is the quote? It’s, it’s what or reduce your desires.

0:41:11.5 Mike Vacanti: You can either increase your means or reduce your desire.

0:41:16.1 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay. But with increasing means come sacrificing something else Always. You can’t increase your means without a huge cost, right? So it’s either you take the cost that comes with increasing means or you decrease your desire, which is probably the… Well, I guess there’s cost to both. ‘Cause the cost to decreasing desire would mean you don’t get those things that you want.

0:41:37.8 Mike Vacanti: You don’t get the Ferrari.

0:41:39.9 Jordan Syatt: By decreasing the desire, you don’t want them anymore. Right. Exactly. So it’s either there’s a cost to both, but I would imagine much people, many people, much people, geez, what was it? What was that? I would imagine many people would do better to decrease their desire in general. Decreasing desire in general would probably lead to better health outcomes and life outcomes overall. Whereas increasing means, obviously many people need to increase their means for their health, for their family, like for many things, as a lack of means is a major issue. But once you have enough trying to figure out, okay, like, is this enough or do I need more? And I think a lot of people would do better to be like, I really, I don’t need more. I’m good.

0:42:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, a lot of people, again.

0:42:32.3 Jordan Syatt: Much people.

0:42:34.9 Mike Vacanti: 50% of people are living paycheck, much people, 50% of people are living paycheck to paycheck though. So like, that’s not a… Well, that is a reduce your desire in the short term to save more money.

0:42:42.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s a reduce desire, for sure.

0:42:44.3 Mike Vacanti: Well, but you need to continue to increase your means because you need a nest egg. You need savings. You need some, you need investments that can earn money for you. Like you have to continue earning.

0:42:52.5 Jordan Syatt: High interest savings accounts, baby. [laughter]

0:42:54.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But it’s, it’s very, it’s very interesting.

0:42:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:43:00.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s an interesting concept that I hadn’t thought of that is, yeah.

0:43:04.9 Jordan Syatt: Was that in the New Testament? Do you know the book or section?

0:43:08.0 Mike Vacanti: No, I heard it in a YouTube video of someone quoting I suppose it was a Catholic Saint. Yeah. See if, let’s see what the Google machine spits out.

0:43:18.6 Jordan Syatt: Increase your means or decrease your… Increase your means or decrease your wants. The best is to do both at the same time, Benjamin Franklin. [laughter]

0:43:26.5 Mike Vacanti: Oh. So, I think it predated him, but I believe he said it.

0:43:32.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow. Benjamin Franklin apparently had a lot of financial advice. He apparently came up with a penny saved is a penny earned. And apparently he also coined time is money.

0:43:44.6 Mike Vacanti: Genius.

0:43:44.6 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.

0:43:44.7 Mike Vacanti: What’s interesting on a practical level on this, because we’re talking about money right now, what’s interesting on a practical level is the conversation of how much, but those conversations to the extent I’ve seen never actually happened publicly. They happen behind closed doors and you throw around numbers of people that you’re close with, but like everyone is in such a different place that that generally just doesn’t do well in public forums. At least I’ve really never seen it. I saw Scooter Braun who was Justin Bieber’s manager basically found him and like has done other stuff in the space. Talk about an old wealthy family friend or something along those lines, telling him that the number is 25 million. And that always stood out to me as like…

0:44:40.2 Jordan Syatt: He said that to Justin or to like, he just said that…

0:44:44.5 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no. About himself.

0:44:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Separately.

0:44:45.0 Mike Vacanti: And like he said it publicly. I actually think the point he was making is like, and then he hit that number and then he felt nothing and like nothing was different and, but yeah.

0:44:58.4 Jordan Syatt: And that’s seems high to me for certain. That’s seems very high.

[laughter]

0:45:07.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s a real private jet lifestyle. [laughter]

0:45:08.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. And then you get into the conversation of hedonic adaptation and like you start living that new lifestyle for a year or two, or maybe even less time. And then that’s your new norm. And your baseline of how you’re feeling about life is the same when you were flying economy compared to when you’re flying first class, compared to when you’re flying private, compared to whatever the next step is going to Mars. Who knows?

0:45:33.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m so glad I don’t like flying private.

0:45:37.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s kind of scary.

0:45:39.6 Jordan Syatt: I have only flown private with Gary.

0:45:39.8 Mike Vacanti: Same.

0:45:40.4 Jordan Syatt: It was never because I paid for it.

0:45:42.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, me too.

0:45:44.9 Jordan Syatt: But I hate flying private.

0:45:44.9 Mike Vacanti: Why do you hate it?

0:45:45.4 Jordan Syatt: It was scary. Number one is I obviously went on Google and started searching like risk of…

0:45:50.3 Mike Vacanti: Higher risk.

0:45:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Way higher risk for private jets, way higher risk for private jets because number one, actually this is the number one reason is because the requirements to be a pilot on a private jet are far lower than the requirements to be a pilot on a commercial airline. The requirements for commercial airline are so, so, so, so much higher.

0:46:16.6 Jordan Syatt: And the standards are much higher. Whereas for private jets, it’s far more lenient. The other aspect is the turbulence on private jets is wild. The smaller the plane, the worse the turbulence. The bigger the plane, the less severe the turbulence. And I don’t think that’s necessarily a cause… It might be a cause for crashes, but I don’t think so. I’ve spoken to many pilots about it, and they say that turbulence really isn’t a huge factor. It’s just makes the ride more uncomfortable and more scary.

0:46:46.5 Mike Vacanti: I can just see you seeing a pilot and being like, okay, this is an opportunity for me to learn about, like something that Terrifies me to death. Being like, so when there’s really bad turbulence, like, is.

0:46:58.6 Jordan Syatt: What does that mean?

0:47:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Does that mean we’re more likely to crash?

[laughter]

0:47:04.1 Jordan Syatt: One time when I was coaching Gary, I was on a flight and a pilot happened to sit next to me, like a pilot for… I don’t know what happened, but he was a pilot and I literally spent a huge portion of the flight asking him questions, and it made me much more comfortable on planes. Like I don’t really get worried anymore, where I used to get really worried about it and he drew out all these diagrams, well, this is what’s happening, when there’s turbulence and it’s like all these like heat pockets and air rising. I don’t know. I don’t even remember what he said. I just remember it made sense at the time and it made me not worried about turbulence anymore. But then the other thing about private jets, and I’ll never forget this. I was on a private jet with Gary and a couple other people and, [chuckle] Gary, like the WiFi was terrible on the private jet. And I’ve never been on a private jet that had good WiFi ever. Like they were all spotty. It wasn’t working. [laughter] And I remember like, we were all trying to use the WiFi and Gary just looks around and, and I think he, it was Ty and he goes, Ty, from now on make sure we get private jets that have good WiFi.

[laughter]

0:48:10.3 Jordan Syatt: And like, I’ll never forget that. It was hilarious because I was like, man, this just isn’t working. Private… WiFi on a regular airline is always better unless, sometimes they don’t work. But usually WiFi on a regular jet is infinitely better than on a private jet. So I will say going from once you go to first class, like that’s a very difficult one to all right, I guess I’ll go economy, which I go economy all the time when I, especially on short flights. Short flights is not worth going first class. It’s only worth going first class if it’s like six hours or longer. Otherwise, those short flights, you’re wasting money.

0:48:44.5 Mike Vacanti: And you wouldn’t know that unless you had ever flown first class. That’s the hedonic adaptation.

0:48:49.1 Jordan Syatt: Yes, exactly.

0:48:49.2 Mike Vacanti: You used to be fine on long flights. Think about like going on a trip as a kid how excited you were. You weren’t like, oh, this is too, I mean, you’re smaller, I get it, but like…

0:48:57.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:48:58.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re not… There’s once you get that new thing that, then you’re like, oh, this is normal. And then…

0:49:04.5 Jordan Syatt: You can move around in your seat a lot and all that.

0:49:06.4 Mike Vacanti: Heaven forbid there’s no first class seat available and you end up back with the peasants. It’s like, oh no, this is awful. It’s like, you used to love this.

0:49:16.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It was never an issue whatsoever. Yeah.

0:49:18.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And same with all lifestyle upgrades beyond a certain threshold of enough. And I think that enough is different from person to person, but I think it’s much lower than in the West. We set our ideals and we all like look up to these influencers and celebrities and people living the life. It’s like, you don’t know what’s going on in here, in in people’s mind and heart and soul. Like.

0:49:46.2 Jordan Syatt: I told my wife as our once… I think it’s once you’re two years old, once your child is two, then you have to start paying for a ticket for them. So for right now, when we go on flights, like to Israel for example, we’ll often go first because it’s a super long flight and it’s just… It can be, I don’t know, it hurts my body more than it did when I was younger, but I told her, I was like, once our daughter’s two and we’re flying to Israel, we’re going to… We’re taking economy. We’re not taking first class or business, any of that stuff because, not because of cost, like thank God, but if it is because then great. But mainly because I don’t want my daughter to get used to or think that that’s what she deserves. Just every flight you go on first class. So I’m more than happy to go back to economy on those flights with my children solely for the purpose of making sure they know, like, this is… If you want to sit up front, like you’re gonna have to earn that. This isn’t something that you’re just given.

0:50:45.6 Mike Vacanti: Episode 134, said it here first. I love your logic. I’m fully on board with you. I think it’ll be harder than you expect it to be when the time comes.

0:50:55.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s what she said.

[laughter]

0:51:00.7 Jordan Syatt: No, I’m serious about that.

0:51:02.1 Mike Vacanti: And I’m excited for you to prove me wrong.

0:51:03.8 Jordan Syatt: Wow. You don’t believe that I can do it. It went from, it’s gonna be harder than you expect to, you can prove me wrong. Wow. Okay. I’ll prove you wrong.

0:51:11.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, now you are going to, ’cause I know how competitive you are. [laughter], but you’re also quite forgetful, so you might not remember this conversation.

[laughter]

0:51:21.5 Jordan Syatt: I am ridiculously forgetful. That’s true. But no, that’s a deeply rooted, strong belief that I have that is…

0:51:29.6 Mike Vacanti: Around parenting.

0:51:30.1 Jordan Syatt: I’ve had that for a long time, so I’m not changing that.

0:51:32.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Amazing.

0:51:33.8 Jordan Syatt: The guilt that I would feel like it would make it… It wouldn’t make it worth it. I would feel terrible the entire flight. The entire flight. I’d be talking to my daughter, I’d be like, this is like very special. Like, this isn’t normal, dah dah, dah, dah. Like, I would be like, really… It wouldn’t be worth it. At all. I would rather sit in the back with her and have a conversation around. Yeah, if you ever wanna do that, like you have to work really hard, which you can do. But like, those seats are way more expensive. So if you want to like be a little bit more comfortable, you’re gonna have to really put it like, I would rather have that conversation than, than the other conversation.

0:52:04.7 Mike Vacanti: Even with a stiff back and a stiff neck and not…

0:52:07.2 Jordan Syatt: Even with a stiff back. Yeah.

0:52:09.9 Mike Vacanti: Good.

0:52:11.3 Jordan Syatt: And maybe this is the, the idealist to me, but I don’t know, even the stiff back will be worth all of the great conversations with my daughter, and oftentimes those first class seats are like separated, so you can’t even really talk with people, it makes it much more difficult. Whereas the economy seats, you can actually have legit conversations with people, which I think would be nice when you’re with your family.

0:52:32.6 Mike Vacanti: Good episode, bro. This was really fun.

0:52:34.9 Jordan Syatt: Good Episode, man. Everyone put your money in a high interest savings account. I did it yesterday, so I’m an expert on it.

[laughter]

0:52:45.3 Mike Vacanti: And guess what? We don’t have some bank that we’re promoting that’s gonna give us a kickback on you signing up for your new account with mentorship 25 Sign up because we don’t spam you with ads here. That’s not how we run things. Alright. You’ll notice there were no advertisements. You’ll notice you didn’t have a… If you’re watching on YouTube, which we recommend you doing, we, actually listen wherever you want to. But there were no ads. That’s how we run things here. Okay? We’re wrapping things.

0:53:12.7 Jordan Syatt: Have a good one. Talk to you soon.

0:53:14.3 Mike Vacanti: See you next week. Good bye.