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In this episode, we discuss how a fight to the death with an alligator and grizzly bear would go. We also dive into continuous glucose monitors, spelunking, and more.


You can watch the video Mike referenced in the episode here:


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-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.7 Jordan Syatt: What’s up Michael?


0:00:13.8 Mike Vacanti: Not much my man. You got Mitch there. You guys are recording today?


0:00:17.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes sir. Mitch is here. We are recording. We’re doing a a 30-day challenge and that’s what we got going on. What do you got going on?


0:00:26.3 Mike Vacanti: I have a big issue.


0:00:27.8 Jordan Syatt: Uh-oh.


0:00:29.1 Mike Vacanti: So this weekend’s my annual golf trip tournament.


0:00:32.8 Jordan Syatt: I know.


0:00:33.3 Mike Vacanti: And I played yesterday for the first time in about a month.


0:00:37.7 Jordan Syatt: Like you practiced?


0:00:39.1 Mike Vacanti: I played 18 yesterday. I don’t practice golf. I just play.


0:00:40.8 Jordan Syatt: We ain’t talking about… We ain’t talk about practice?


0:00:43.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t practice golf. And it was the worst round I’ve played in potentially years and so now.


0:00:50.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that could be a good thing. It could be good.


0:00:52.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. You could spin it. Got it out of my system, whatever, I agree. But it’s also, I made some swing adjustments and yeah, not good.


0:01:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Well, good man. And sometimes it’s good luck to have a terrible performance before your show. So…


0:01:12.1 Mike Vacanti: You just made that up.


0:01:12.9 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t. That’s actually a…


0:01:13.2 Mike Vacanti: This is straight out of the school of…




0:01:16.2 Jordan Syatt: No, that’s a superstition in theater. The theater world is like the last dress rehearsal. It’s like good luck for it to be bad. So I know this isn’t theatre, but.


0:01:24.4 Mike Vacanti: I think that’s a rain on your wedding day’s a good thing. It’s just, we’re gonna take something that’s obviously annoying and we’re just gonna call it good.


0:01:32.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. Yeah. But I bet you win. I bet you win this competition.


0:01:37.2 Mike Vacanti: I think we do too. It’s a a team event. It’s not an individual. So yeah. I think we’ll defend our title.


0:01:43.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, whoever’s team you’re on is lucky to have you there, ’cause I think you’re gonna swing well under par.


0:01:51.1 Mike Vacanti: Thanks, Dale. I’ve never shot under par in my life, but I appreciate that.


0:01:55.7 Jordan Syatt: You will this time.




0:02:01.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s what’s going on here.


0:02:03.7 Jordan Syatt: What adjustments did you make to your swing?


0:02:08.3 Mike Vacanti: This might be incredibly boring for 99% of people and then the 1% who know what I’m talking about are going to think I’m kind of an idiot, but I basically just made my backswing range bigger on my driver, which like, I have a little bit of a fade with my driver, which means the ball moves from left to right and to straighten it out a little bit and get a little bit more distance. I increased my back swing further, which actually has me hitting it with a club face flush rather than like slightly opened. And so I was hitting the ball straight with my driver, but then all of my irons were drying hard right to left, and they usually go left to right. So I’m usually set up like five feet left of where I wanna go, but then they’re drawing further left. So I basically missed every approach shot and the wheels fell off from there.


0:03:00.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh geez. Would that now change where you stand relative to the ball when you’re swinging? Or are you just gonna bring back your swing to what it was?


0:03:08.0 Mike Vacanti: I think I’m just gonna shorten my back swing and play the fade with the driver. But really what I’m gonna, there’s two options. There’s, I go to the range for two hours a day for the next three days and try and figure it out, but I don’t practice golf. It’s just not in my ethos. And so I’m gonna try and forget about yesterday and just have a few great days of life and show up with no memory of that round on Friday.


0:03:30.5 Jordan Syatt: Smart. Smart. I like that. What about if you just aimed slightly to the left with your driver? So instead of aiming at the wherever you want it to go, you just aim to the left of that. So that fade takes care of itself.


0:03:42.7 Mike Vacanti: With the old swing, right?


0:03:44.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:03:44.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s what I’ve been doing forever and it works. I just lose a little bit of distance, but I can hit it far enough off the tee that it doesn’t really matter and I’m consistent with it. I don’t know why I made the swing adjustment five days before the annual golf tournament that gives bragging rights for a year. I don’t know. I’m an idiot.


0:04:03.3 Jordan Syatt: No. Test it out. Life’s too short not to test things out, you know what I mean?


0:04:08.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s true. That’s true. So walking speed.




0:04:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I just asked Greg Doucette if he wanted to come on my podcast right before, because he’s flipping out. He’s flipping out about my most recent post.


0:04:25.0 Mike Vacanti: Your most recent Instagram post.


0:04:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It was a bit from my last YouTube video. I just screen recorded it, turned it into a reel, and I was talking about walking speed, like walking speed doesn’t really matter in terms of overall health outcomes. And there’s research supporting that. And he’s freaking out. He’s in the comments, “That’s ridiculous. That’s like, next we’re just gonna be saying it doesn’t matter what you eat, just eat.” And he is bringing up good points, to be fair. He’s being like, “If you walk one mile an hour versus four miles an hour, you’re gonna burn more calories, dah, dah, dah, dah. It’s like he’s correct. 100% that’s for sure. It matters in that sense. What I’m thinking about is, if you walk the same total distance from overall health outcomes, it’s basically the same, especially from a general health perspective, if we’re talking about performance enhancing perspectives.


0:05:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Obviously, the speed you’re going now matters much more. I’m talking to a general population. I’m talking to people who are super overweight and not healthy, and they just need to move more. So technically, he’s correct. It does matter. But he’s losing it in typical Greg fashion. So I just sent him a message. I was like, “Hey man, I’d love to have you on my podcast so we can talk about it.” We’ll see if he takes me up on it before he just makes a viral video about how I’m a charlatan and have no idea what I’m talking about. But…




0:05:50.8 Mike Vacanti: So two things. One, are you guys friendly? Do you have a history of communication?


0:05:56.6 Jordan Syatt: We’ve had a couple of messages, but the messages…


0:05:58.8 Mike Vacanti: Do you follow each other?


0:06:00.4 Jordan Syatt: We follow each other, yeah. We follow each other. I’ve had people from his team, reach out asking if I would be a sponsored athlete from them, and if I would be sponsored for their supplements or clothing. And I was like, listen, and I’ll it’s from 2021. I didn’t reply. Oh yeah. 2021. Then they were basically, they were like, “Do you wanna do sponsorships?” And I was like, “Ah, I don’t wanna do supplements, but potentially clothing.” And then that was it. That’s literally all we spoke about. Never, nothing ever came from it. And then now today he’s losing his fucking shit.


0:06:42.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s an interesting hill to die on. Did you give in to him in the debate or did you, in typical Jordan fashion, dig your heels in and like, try to defend your point?


0:06:54.8 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t defend anything. I, so here’s, here’s a…


0:06:56.9 Mike Vacanti: Oh, you just said, you just said you can come on my podcast. I got it. This literally just happened.


0:07:01.9 Jordan Syatt: He wrote me a long message. And then sent me a voice memo, and then I was like, Hey man, I’m about to, I didn’t say this, but we’re, I’m about to hop on a podcast with you. So I just write, Hey man, I respect you immensely. I’ve looked up to you for years. Would you want to come on my podcast and speak about this and I think it’d be super helpful for everyone? And he hasn’t replied yet, so he’s probably making the video, talking shit about me. [laughter]


0:07:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Good, exposure to a new audience.


0:07:23.4 Jordan Syatt: An audience that’ll hate me. [laughter]


0:07:27.6 Mike Vacanti: Interesting hill to die on though.


0:07:29.6 Jordan Syatt: It seems to be his, you were talking about your ethos with golf, how you don’t practice. It seems to me that his content is based around not liking other people’s content. Like the vast majority of his videos are talking about what other people say that he disagrees with and then just losing his shit over it. That seems to be how he makes the majority of his content, if I’m not mistaken.


0:07:56.4 Mike Vacanti: From what I’ve seen, he does do a good job of isolating the idea rather than going after people and like, being relatively objective, but.


0:08:06.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, that’s good.


0:08:07.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That sounds right.


0:08:09.5 Jordan Syatt: I mean, we can, yeah, I’ll go on his YouTube right now. His okay, let’s, okay. I’m just looking at his YouTube videos in terms of the thumbnails and everything and the titles. It’s almost all about other people. And we’ve got Kali Muscle has lost his mind. CBum got fat. The bulk needs to stop Chris Bumstead, is Lizzo fat shaming, Chris Bumstead again, Logan Paul scamming kids. Sam Sulek is, this isn’t good. Jesse James West didn’t deserve first place. It’s all about other people.


0:08:58.0 Mike Vacanti: It does seem to all be about other people. I’ve actually, I think I’ve watched one or two of those videos that you just listed and their it’s definitely clickbait to get people in the video. They’re not really attacking videos.


0:09:11.9 Jordan Syatt: The thing is like, I haven’t seen those videos, so I have no idea, but…


0:09:16.4 Mike Vacanti: Could be a good place to leave it. Or we could just go, this could just be the whole episode.


0:09:23.3 Jordan Syatt: I don’t, we don’t, we could, listen, I don’t know him. He seems like, I, like I said in the message to him, he seems like a really nice guy, but it looks like 94% of his content, I mean, Lean Beef Patty she trains wrong. Like, I don’t, everything just looks, even if the actual video is different.


0:09:43.0 Mike Vacanti: Isn’t negative. Yeah.


0:09:43.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s…


0:09:45.0 Mike Vacanti: Like the Jesse video was a good video or like saying that he should have done better, I believe.


0:09:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. Interesting. Got it.


0:09:55.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Let’s get people in the door. Dude, you should, this is good thing…


0:09:57.6 Jordan Syatt: This is a good strategy.


0:09:58.8 Mike Vacanti: This is, yeah. But it means that you attract enough eyeballs that he wants to use you for a video to talk about walking speed.


0:10:07.1 Jordan Syatt: Maybe. Maybe he’ll come on my podcast. We’ll talk about it.


0:10:11.2 Mike Vacanti: What else Jordan, tell me about that thing you’re wearing.


0:10:14.4 Jordan Syatt: CGM continuous… Dude, I had a, I don’t know how accurate this thing is. This thing is, it’s very weird. So I’m wearing a continuous glucose monitor doing a 30-day challenge. My mini cut starts today, gonna lose weight while I wear the CGM and I’m gonna be spiking my blood sugar every single day and just have one meal a day that deliberately spikes my blood sugar. That’s the whole purpose is to show that you can spike your blood sugar and still lose weight. Obviously, I’m not talking to diabetics type 1, type 2. This is for otherwise healthy people and today was day one and the first meal I had was a bag of sour Skittles. Just that, completely fasted, nothing else. That’s what I ate. And my blood sugar didn’t spike at all. Like, I shouldn’t say at all. It spiked, but like barely, it went for, it stayed within healthy range.


0:11:10.5 Mike Vacanti: How many, how big was the bag of Skittles?


0:11:12.3 Jordan Syatt: It was a full bag. It was a 220 calorie bag of Skittles. It was like 36 grams of sugar.


0:11:19.3 Mike Vacanti: I know. Like 59 or 50 carb or something like that?


0:11:22.1 Jordan Syatt: 47 carb, 36 sugar, two fat, zero protein. My blood sugar went from 102-131, I think was the peak, which is like not that high. The unhealthy or the big spikes are anything above like 140, that’s like the big spike. So it went up to like 131-ish, which I was like, wow, that’s wild. Because I had meals yesterday. I’ve been wearing it for a couple days now just to get used to it. I had full meals yesterday that were very different in terms of spikes. I had much higher spikes. So I was actually talking to some people who are, diabetics type 1, type 2, and they encouraged me to get a finger pricker so I can actually test my legit glucose at that moment. So I ordered that, it should arrive later today. So hopefully, we’ll be able to get that finger prick and sort of calibrate the app from the CGM along with the finger prick. Because the CGM, it’s not actually measuring your blood glucose. It’s not like it’s not touching your blood. It actually, it’s measuring your interstitial fluid. So like in between your skin there’s fluid and like that can give you a good estimate of what your blood glucose is, but it’s not actual blood. So that’s where they said the finger prick can give you a much more accurate result.


0:12:44.0 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. It’ll be interesting to see the difference between the finger prick and what you’re rocking now. Two thoughts. One, I wonder if you doubled the serving size on the Skittles, what the response would’ve been in terms of the height of the blood sugar spike and two…


0:13:01.1 Mike Vacanti: This just proves that you have phenomenal insulin sensitivity. You’re just putting sugar down your pipe as quick as you can [laughter] and your insulin’s pulling that carb and sending it to your muscles all over the place and just doing all kinds of good things with it. And yeah, this is what happens when you do a lot of cardio and you train and you have muscle, and you’re just an athletic specimen like you are. An athletic purple belt specimen like you are.


0:13:29.3 Jordan Syatt: The other thing it’s gonna prove is that the… Regardless of the blood sugar spikes, I think the cool thing about this is regardless of the actual intensity of these spikes and lows, is that at the end of it, I’ll have lost fat because I’m gonna be in a calorie deficit. And so no matter what it’s like, people are gonna be like, I have a lot of different plans for how I’m gonna structure this. The overall YouTube video and different tests we’re gonna run every day, but it’s still gonna come back and prove the same thing that all these, oh, don’t have white bread, don’t have this, don’t have that. It’s like, oh, no. Like, shocker, you still can.


0:14:00.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s gonna be the takeaway for most people. But the real underlying takeaway for the PT Pod is that Jordan is a specimen and that even if he wanted to spike his blood sugar, he couldn’t because he just has good things going on. That’s the takeaway.


0:14:14.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s inaccurate. But [laughter] I’m glad we’ve got your backswing in check and we’re ready to go. [laughter]


0:14:21.7 Mike Vacanti: The thing is, we don’t. We don’t have it in check at all. We’re in a really bad mental and physical place in the game of golf. But you know what can you do? You just gotta bring it. Michael Jordan had the flu before game six and… Or ate bad pizza, or who knows, was out partying, whatever the case may be.


0:14:39.6 Jordan Syatt: He was poisoned.


0:14:40.6 Mike Vacanti: That was one of the theories, yeah. Seven guys to deliver one pizza 1 o’clock in the morning it’s a little weird.


0:14:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude. I’ve [laughter] been listening to Rogan’s podcast more when I work out, when I do cardio. Just for a couple of reasons. One, I’m like been very interested in doing more standup comedy, so I’ve been listening to some standup comedians and also just interested in some of the topics and the discussions. But I was listening to one… Do you know Shane Gillis? The comedian. He’s absolutely hilarious. And so I think he’s been on a couple of times with Rogan. I was listening to what I think is the most recent one.


0:15:18.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:15:19.7 Jordan Syatt: And I was very interested in listening to this one. One because I like Shane. I like his standups, specifically. And also I like analyzing conversations just to see at what points am I gaining interest and losing interest? What’s happening in a conversation where my interest is dwindling and I start going on Instagram and not paying attention versus when am I intently paying attention. Did you hear this podcast with Shane and Rogan? Did you listen to this one?


0:15:50.5 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:15:50.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s very different than the meaningful podcasts. [laughter] Rogan has some very meaningful, deep, intelligent, intellectual conversations. This was the exact opposite of that. It was just, the entire time was… Almost the entire time was nonsense. And it was hilarious because Shane kept bringing something up that was completely like… You could tell Rogan didn’t want to talk about it. You could clearly tell Rogan had no interest in discussing it, but Shane kept bringing it up throughout the podcast. There were multiple times, and even at one point Rogan said, I can’t believe you keep talking about this. [laughter] And I actually had to turn it off because when I first started listening to it, I thought it was hilarious. I couldn’t believe what he was talking about. He was talking about, do you remember that show when we were kids? I think it was called True Life: I’m a whatever, True Life: I’m a binge eater, True Life: I’m a hoarder, True Life: whatever. So it was some…


0:16:47.5 Mike Vacanti: MTV, right?


0:16:48.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, something, MTV. And I remember there’s a True Life, I eat the stuffing in my couch, stuff like that. That’s a real disease that people have, I forget the name of it.


0:17:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Pica.


0:17:01.1 Jordan Syatt: Is that it, Pica?


0:17:02.2 Mike Vacanti: I know ice cubes. Yeah, eating non-food objects.


0:17:06.5 Jordan Syatt: Ice cubes.


0:17:07.3 Mike Vacanti: Pica is a mental health condition where a person compulsively swallows non-food items. It’s especially common in children and with certain conditions, while it’s often harmless, swallowing certain items can make Pica very hazardous. I thought that Ice was an example.


0:17:23.7 Jordan Syatt: Is that P-I-C-A?


0:17:25.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. For people who eat things like ice, a common behavior for someone who is pregnant, Pica is harmless. For others, it can lead to dangerous or toxic items. People with Pica often eat the following: Ash, baby powder, chalk…


0:17:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Ash?


0:17:44.7 Mike Vacanti: Charcoal, clay, dirt, soil, coffee grounds, egg shells, feces… [laughter]


0:17:50.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, my God.


0:17:52.0 Mike Vacanti: This is sad. Hair, string or thread…


0:17:54.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that’s awful.


0:17:55.6 Mike Vacanti: Ice, laundry starch, paint chips, paper, pebbles, pet foods. Soap, wool or cloth.


0:18:02.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, my God.


0:18:04.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:18:05.3 Jordan Syatt: How does that happen?


0:18:07.3 Mike Vacanti: Sorry, I derailed this a little though.


0:18:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, it’s crazy that you said feces because the thing that he kept bringing up was like [laughter], something called the Shit Hoarder. And he just kept talking about it and he kept bringing, it was he started off being like, I think something is really funny that every time I bring it up to my friends, none of them think it’s funny. And I think it… And so he kept bringing it up to Rogan being like, there’s this person… Hoarders how they hoard stuff in their house? There’s a person, there was an episode, I don’t think it was True Life, but it was a TV series similar or something, or a YouTube video where this person hoards her own poop and it’s not just her, it’s her and her mom. They’re like they both keep all of their poop.


0:18:56.0 Mike Vacanti: So the reason Rogan probably didn’t wanna keep talking about it, and the reason that you turned it off and probably a lot of people turned it off is because that’s disgusting [laughter] and no one wants to think about that. As soon as I could see where you were going, as soon as you said shit hoarder, I was like, I don’t wanna talk about this. I wouldn’t wanna listen to this. [laughter] This makes me physically ill,” and so.


0:19:16.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:19:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.


0:19:19.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So that’s that.


0:19:21.2 Mike Vacanti: What parts of the podcast make you…


0:19:22.0 Jordan Syatt: So not talking about that. [laughter] Just wanna make that clear. Don’t bring it up. [laughter]


0:19:28.8 Mike Vacanti: In case you were gonna bring this up, please don’t.


0:19:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:19:34.0 Mike Vacanti: I do think that it’s interesting because one of the reasons I love doing this podcast when we’ve we’re on episode 135 is because it’s fun. We make it fun for us. It’s a conversation. There isn’t a lot of planning or analysis or really trying to optimize or analyzing podcasts and seeing how can we talk or what can we talk about or what can we say that’s gonna increase retention and engagement and etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. We don’t do that, which we probably could and grow faster or whatever we wanna be outcome to be. But for consistency for the long, it can be fun and more optimal.


0:20:18.9 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know. It’s fun the way it is.


0:20:20.9 Mike Vacanti: I prefer fun.


0:20:22.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:20:23.4 Mike Vacanti: When you’re listening to a podcast like that, though, you’re analyzing it as a podcast.


0:20:27.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m analyzing it as a podcast and ’cause obviously it’s hard to take away the podcast aspect from it. I try to analyze the conversation, but the public nature of it, the recording nature automatically changes it a little bit. There’s always like a little bit of apprehension or awareness that like, of everything that you say is gonna be obviously you could say, Hey, I’m gonna cut this out and not share it. But like, usually it’s, if it’s on a podcast, there’s still some level of I need to still be on enough to the point of where I don’t say something really stupid. But I like to analyze it from that. Like, why am I listing, why am I interested? Why am I not interested? Type of analysis. It’s fun to do that. And it also keeps me aware of what could I talk about, what should I not talk about type stuff on social media as well.


0:21:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Is that just for you or is that listening to other people on podcast too? Because I definitely think about that in terms of how genuine is this person being versus how much are they saying this because they are, it’s their persona. They’re marketing something. They’re trying to, they have an angle, they’re withholding information that they know for whatever reason. And then it’s also interesting to see the spectrum of people in terms of how, like real and raw, they’re willing to go public facing versus people who are just so blatantly playing defense against negative feedback or criticism, whatever it is.


0:22:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I think that spectrum is very, very unique and interesting to look at. I don’t really need to analyze it for someone who’s just very, it’s very obvious what they’re doing. There are some people who all they do is they try and sell whatever it is they’re doing. The entire podcast or the entire video is just selling, selling, selling. And it’s like, it’s very clear what they’re trying to do. There are other types of videos or podcasts in which it’s appears much more conversational. But you can also tell the person behind it is like very skilled at saying what they wanna say, how they wanna say it in a way that almost makes it appear more conversational, but it’s still very deliberate in what they’re doing. That to me is something I’m interested in.


0:22:43.4 Mike Vacanti: Who’s good at that?


0:22:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Rogan is incredible at that. Rogan is, Rogan’s also just a, he’s the, a great example of a phenomenal listener. He’s an amazing interviewer.


0:22:53.4 Jordan Syatt: He, right now I’m listening to one with an evolutionary psychologist, which is so far very interesting but for the guy who spoke…


0:23:02.4 Mike Vacanti: Do you know his name?


0:23:04.1 Jordan Syatt: His name is David Buss.


0:23:08.9 Mike Vacanti: When Men Behave Badly.


0:23:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Is that his book?


0:23:12.2 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm.


0:23:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. He has, apparently he has a bunch of books. He’s a professor here in Austin. He has a whole book all about murder like the Science of Murder, why people Are Murdered, who Gets, he mentioned it a little bit in the initial portion of this podcast where he was talking about affairs, how people have affairs, and he even said, he’s like, a lot of people think it’s just men. He’s like there are up to 40% of women in relationships also have affairs. But what he was talking about from the evolutionary psychology part is like, why would a woman have an affair?


0:23:45.0 Mike Vacanti: There are people who think that only men have affairs?


0:23:49.0 Jordan Syatt: There are people who think it’s mainly a male thing and almost write off the idea that they would, ’cause also from the psychology perspective or evolutionary perspective, it wouldn’t make sense. And that’s what a lot of what he’s talking about. In terms of evolutionarily the minimum a man has to do in order to have a child is just have sex. That’s literally it. That’s the minimum he has to do. He has, like, he doesn’t have to be a part, he doesn’t have to support the woman, any of that stuff. And in terms of spreading your genetics and all of that, it’s much easier for a man. Whereas a woman, the minimum is pregnancy, which is a lot. It’s like a whole year. And it’s taxing on your body, mentally, physically, emotionally, all of that.


0:24:40.1 Jordan Syatt: He’s talking about like why would that happen? There are other things going on in regard to like the psychology of why that might happen which I just find very interesting into all of this, like the science of why that might happen. But they go into interesting topics around Darwin and Survival For The Fittest and how that’s one theory, but it’s not like the only one. And there are many other things to consider as well. Almost like, for example, a parent, he’s talking about how in Darwin’s book, Darwin will frequently talk about how a peacock will just, it will, it drives him insane because why would it be, why would having this huge, lush, colorful thing help you survive ’cause all it’s really doing, it’s like, it acts as like a neon sign for fast food being like, Hey, I’m here. Come and eat me. When it’s the other aspect of this is it’s not survival of for the fittest. It’s can you reproduce. Who can reproduce more quickly and more often, and who’s more likely to reproduce, which is the people who are more likely to attract the opposite sex. And the peacock has the more attractive one to the female peacocks is the one with the most lush plume of feathers.


0:26:01.4 Jordan Syatt: And like, why is that? Why would that attract the females? Why? And this isn’t just in peacocks, it’s also in turkeys and other birds as well. And so he’s talking about the theories about why that is, and he’s like, well, there are many different theories, but one of them is…


0:26:16.4 Jordan Syatt: Generally, if a peacock has a lot of parasites, then the color of their feathers will diminish. It will be less vibrant. So if you have more vibrant colors, it means you’re more healthy, and like you be a… You might have stronger genetics and that could lead to that greater attraction. But I don’t even know how I got on this, but it was very interesting to listen to the conversation. And yeah, so listening. Rogan’s just such a good listener.


0:26:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Those are a massive skill of the best interviewers, is they know when to not say anything.


0:26:50.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:26:50.4 Mike Vacanti: And some of the most annoying interviews are those where the interviewer feels they need to interject themselves consistently rather than letting someone who’s brilliant and incredible just rip and like go.


0:27:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:27:06.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude, do you know about the Nutty Putty Cave?


0:27:10.4 Jordan Syatt: What? No, I’ve never heard of it.


0:27:13.2 Mike Vacanti: Are you claustrophobic at all?


0:27:16.1 Jordan Syatt: Not when I was a kid. I’ve definitely started to feel it more now though, for sure. Why?


0:27:20.1 Mike Vacanti: So the Nutty Putty Cave is a cave in Utah. I’ve watched this YouTube video before and it popped up for me again this morning. Unbelievably sad story. Basically, there were so many people who would get trapped in this cave.


0:27:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Geez.


0:27:35.9 Mike Vacanti: It was supposed to be a beginner’s cave. People would get trapped and like there were rescue missions to get people out in like the 1999-2007 window. And so eventually, they shut the cave down, I wanna say, from like ’05 to ’09. But these cavers and spelunkers were protesting to open it back up, and they’re they were saying like, “You’re depriving us from this activity we really enjoy.” So the state opens the cave back up, and this unbelievably sad story. This guy died in there. He was a 26-year-old guy who was married. I think his wife was pregnant at the time. Him and his…


0:28:16.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh my God.


0:28:16.4 Mike Vacanti: Him and his younger brother who was 23 and another seven or eight family members, friends, people were there doing the cave. And basically he got to this position where there’s something deep in the cave called the birth canal, where it’s a very, very narrow space that you have to go through. And then you come out on the other side and it’s like almost straight down, but you come out on the other side and there’s a little bit bigger room, so you can turn around and like hang out in the room, but then go back up through the space. Well, this guy thought he was going through the birth canal. If you can see the… If you’re not watching basic… The guy took a wrong turn. So instead of going here, he went here and instead of this open room…


0:29:00.7 Jordan Syatt: So instead of going left, he went right?


0:29:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Yep. And on this side, it looks like there was also a really narrow space, and he went through the narrow space thinking it was gonna get to the birth canal, and he could turn around. But after the narrow space, it drops straight down, and then there’s nothing else here. So he’s stuck completely vertical in a space that’s 10 inches by like 10 feet or 12 feet or something like that. So he had to let all the air out of his lung… Long story short, this guy was… His brother went out, called the police, the police came, they sent rescue missions mission. The guy was stuck upside down there in that tiny, tiny space for 28 hours.


0:29:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Stop.


0:29:49.7 Mike Vacanti: And passed away. They couldn’t get him out.


0:29:54.1 Jordan Syatt: Geez.


0:29:56.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:29:57.5 Jordan Syatt: Did he just pass away from hanging upside down?


0:30:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, he was upside down. Well, and he couldn’t take a full breath because to get into that narrow area, he had to let all the air out of his body to wiggle through thinking he was gonna come out into an area where there was more space, and he never did. So he couldn’t even get a full breath in there. And yeah, he was upside down, all the blood rushing to his head, to his lungs.


0:30:25.2 Jordan Syatt: That sounds like one of the worst ways to die ever imaginable.


0:30:28.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:30:30.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh my God. Why did you tell me that story? What is that about?


0:30:33.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know.


0:30:34.6 Jordan Syatt: I’d rather talk about the Poop porter than that. [laughter] That was terrible.


0:30:39.2 Mike Vacanti: Sorry, I apologize.


0:30:40.0 Jordan Syatt: Where did that come… Why did you think of that?


0:30:42.4 Mike Vacanti: I told you the YouTube video got served up to me this morning.


0:30:45.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, geez.


0:30:50.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, don’t go caving.


0:30:52.5 Jordan Syatt: I don’t even know what to say about that. Like that just sounds absolutely awful. So what? So people, do they clearly don’t have these things marked or of like, “Hey, turn right here.” Or like they know what they’re supposed to do at certain times or like how are they supposed to know where to go in there?


0:31:09.9 Mike Vacanti: I think the punchline punch line is you don’t go in there unless you really know what you’re doing.


0:31:14.4 Jordan Syatt: Geez, I could never… Dude, when I was a kid, I wasn’t claustrophobic at all. Now my daughter, she’ll climb under everything and she’ll climb under the bed and I’ll chase her, and it’s fun. Even now like just getting under the bed, which I can see outside from all the sides and everything, and it’s really not that low to the ground, even there when I’m under the bed, I’m like, “I don’t like this. This does not feel comfortable.” I’m like, “Get me out of here.” [laughter] And it’s just a bed. And it’s like, there’s plenty of space to move and to breathe. I could not imagine going underground in a cave and being like, okay, in order to get to this next part, I need to exhale a significant portion of the oxygen in my lungs.


0:32:12.4 Mike Vacanti: And wiggle through.


0:32:13.2 Jordan Syatt: And squeeze myself through.


0:32:14.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:32:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh God, I hope everything is okay with his wife and child. That’s devastating.


0:32:23.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I would expect you to be less claustrophobic than average given your jiu-jitsu.




0:32:31.3 Mike Vacanti: What?




0:32:35.6 Jordan Syatt: Maybe. Who knows? Maybe on average, am I less claustrophobic.


0:32:38.1 Mike Vacanti: Am I Shane Gillis continuing to bring up the subject that people don’t want to hear about?


0:32:43.9 Jordan Syatt: No. No, no, no. No.


0:32:44.0 Mike Vacanti: Okay. [laughter]


0:32:44.1 Jordan Syatt: I think it might be more situation-specific.


0:32:51.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:32:51.5 Jordan Syatt: Like, I’m very not claustrophobic relatively to other people when I have someone choking me out. I feel very comfortable in that position usually. But you tell me to go down a cave, dude, I saw a video of this, there was an infant or a young, a small, small kid who got stuck in a pipe somehow. He was walking, he got stuck in a pipe… This has a good ending.


0:33:20.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I saw this. I saw this. This is awesome.


0:33:22.3 Jordan Syatt: And an older little kid was tied from his ankles and lowered into the pipe.


0:33:26.7 Mike Vacanti: Really skinny kid?


0:33:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:33:30.4 Mike Vacanti: Did you see the pep talk that his dad gave him before he went in?


0:33:33.5 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:33:34.1 Mike Vacanti: Oh my gosh. We got to link this in the show notes. We got to find this and link it up. It’s amazing. He…


0:33:39.5 Jordan Syatt: What did he say?


0:33:40.7 Mike Vacanti: You can’t actually hear.


0:33:41.2 Jordan Syatt: I need to see this video.


0:33:42.3 Mike Vacanti: But the dad, like…


0:33:43.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you didn’t even hear the dad…


0:33:44.4 Mike Vacanti: You don’t have to. You don’t have to. He grabs the kid’s face and he’s right in front of him and talking to him and you can hear the kid listening. I think the older brother who went in, I think it was his brother, but who went in to save him was, I don’t know, 12, maybe, 11, something like that.


0:34:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But small, small, skinny 12-year-old.


0:34:02.2 Mike Vacanti: But very skinny, so he could fit, yeah.


0:34:05.2 Jordan Syatt: And then they lowered him in head first, pulled him out. And in the caption that I saw was, this kid went in, a boy came out, a man. And just, like, just unbelievable.


0:34:16.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:34:16.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That was a good ending.


0:34:18.2 Mike Vacanti: Heroic.


0:34:18.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. A real hero. That’s a real hero.


0:34:21.6 Mike Vacanti: “Mike, you want to learn how to make podcasts that people want to listen to? Good endings. [laughter] Not sad endings. Good endings. All right? Here, start listening to these, analyze what they’re doing well, like I do. I was hinting at it before.”


0:34:35.4 Jordan Syatt: No. It was funny. I mean, I turned that podcast off when Shane kept bringing that topic up. So I thought I probably shouldn’t have brought it up, but yeah, geez, that’s nuts. That’s nuts. Are you claustrophobic?


0:34:52.2 Mike Vacanti: I definitely wouldn’t want to be in that cave, that’s for sure. I was more claustrophobic when I was younger.


0:34:57.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you were more claustrophobic then?


0:35:00.5 Mike Vacanti: I was more. Yeah. At an out-of-town hockey tournament once, we had 17 guys in an elevator and Baylor Dieter decided to open the doors between floors and it stuck like there was just brick and we were all completely in there like sardines. And then the elevator stopped moving for, I don’t know, 20 minutes.


0:35:18.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh no.


0:35:19.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And people were getting all rowdy. And so, there was that as a kid. There were a hundred people in a Happy Hopper, those big blow up bounce things.


0:35:30.7 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:35:31.0 Mike Vacanti: You don’t know what a Happy Hopper is?


0:35:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, oh, oh. You mean like a bouncy castle?


0:35:35.7 Mike Vacanti: Sure. Bouncy castle. Yeah. [laughter] That’s a more accurate description. That’s a more descriptive title. Well, we flipped one of those on its side with a hundred kids in it, and it collapsed on itself and some of the air came out. Yeah. So in like a three-year window, I had multiple, I can’t breathe, I’m going to die.


0:35:58.1 Jordan Syatt: How’d you flip it on its side?


0:36:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Put a hundred kids in there in the sixth grade and everyone’s going completely crazy and people are running into the side of it and who knows?


0:36:10.7 Jordan Syatt: Was this at school?


0:36:11.7 Mike Vacanti: No, this was at a party.


0:36:14.6 Jordan Syatt: Geez. That’s a crazy party of a hundred kids in a Happy Hopper.


0:36:19.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So I got less claustrophobic with age.


0:36:26.7 Jordan Syatt: When you said Happy Hopper, it made me think of the bouncy thing that my daughter uses that we put her in there and she bounces up and down and she’ll watch TV, you know what I’m talking about?


0:36:35.5 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm.


0:36:37.3 Jordan Syatt: The kids, the things you put little kids in, little babies in?


0:36:39.0 Mike Vacanti: That should be called a Happy Hopper.


0:36:40.8 Jordan Syatt: That should be called a Happy Hopper. That’s why I was like, why is he, what, did he try and put his head inside one of the leg holes [laughter] and then he got stuck?


0:36:50.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s another scary one. Have you ever seen someone try to dive head first through an inter-tube like at a lake or a pool?


0:36:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.


0:37:00.9 Mike Vacanti: I’ve seen people get stuck going through there with their legs straight up in the air.


0:37:03.9 Jordan Syatt: No. [chuckle] Really?


0:37:05.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And then on it thrashing and unable to get back and then you’re heads underwater. That’s terrifying.


0:37:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, that’s fucking, oh my God. Why wouldn’t they test it out first? See if they could fit through. That just sounds like terrible planning [laughter]


0:37:20.4 Mike Vacanti: As one of the more impulsive personalities I know. Can you tell me why they might not have tested it out first? They definitely were on the diving board like, oh, this will be cool and I’ll impress my friends and watch this. Why didn’t they test it out?


0:37:37.4 Jordan Syatt: Have you seen that in person?


0:37:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:37:39.9 Jordan Syatt: And is that one of your career saves? Did you save someone like that?


0:37:42.5 Mike Vacanti: No, there weren’t inter-tubes at the pool, but I don’t remember exactly when, but I’ve seen that once or twice. Absolutely.


0:37:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that’s scary. I could not imagine. I remember as a kid, I did Taekwondo as a kid and I was at my professor’s house. His name was Master Starling. Master Starling, he had an Academy in Framingham, Massachusetts. Went there, I trained a lot. I loved Taekwondo. He had an annual pool party, went to his pool party and I was, I would do the things where you’re underwater, you want to see how long you can hold your breath. And some there is the kid, in every situation there’s the kid that no one likes, every situation there’s just always… And if it’s not the kid, then it’s the person. And if you don’t know who the person is that no one likes, then you’re that person, right? So the kid that no one liked was on one of these, like a…


0:38:37.4 Mike Vacanti: Hang on, hang on, we got to pause the story. I’m sorry.


0:38:40.5 Jordan Syatt: Hold on.


0:38:40.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m the obnoxious interviewer who’s pausing it. What if there’s two people hanging out? What…


0:38:45.8 Jordan Syatt: Well, that doesn’t count.


0:38:46.7 Mike Vacanti: What if there’s three?


0:38:47.9 Jordan Syatt: I mean a group.


0:38:49.4 Mike Vacanti: What’s the minimum number?


0:38:52.4 Jordan Syatt: Four.


0:38:54.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think there’s always someone that no one likes, but continue.


0:39:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Maybe four is a small number. We’ll go back to that in a second. We’ll revisit that, alright? I will stand by that. Anyway, there’s, you know those…


0:39:11.0 Mike Vacanti: The pads that you’ll lie on the pool. The kid like floated directly over me as I was like holding as I was near the end of my breath hold. And I was trying to get up and I couldn’t get up. And I was freaking out underwater. And I got, I was, I forget the name, I forget his name. I was like, what the fuck, man? And he was like, what? I was like, you floated directly over me. And anyway. Yeah. Maybe the minimum in a group.


0:39:41.3 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no. We’ll come back to that.


0:39:41.6 Jordan Syatt: Allright lemme ask you this.


0:39:42.8 Mike Vacanti: We’ll come back to that. Have you seen where they drill a hole in ice on a lake, and then they drill another.


0:39:51.7 Jordan Syatt: When they fish.


0:39:52.8 Mike Vacanti: A hole like a…


0:39:53.8 Jordan Syatt: When they fish.


0:39:54.5 Mike Vacanti: Like a [laughter]? Nope.


0:39:56.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, and they Swim in it.


0:39:56.5 Mike Vacanti: Nope. And they drill another hole like a hundred feet away or 50 feet away or whatever it is. And then they go underwater and swim to the other hole. Have you seen them do that?


0:40:03.5 Jordan Syatt: I have. That is so stupid. It’s truly unbelievable. I get people have had to have died that way.


0:40:11.1 Mike Vacanti: Have you seen when there is no snow and the ice is, I mean, you can see straight through the ice, you can see the person swimming and then they get lost and they don’t know where the hole is.


0:40:23.7 Jordan Syatt: I saw it happen to, on social media. It was probably like a year, two years ago. I saw it happen to a woman. A woman went in, she got lost. And they, I mean.


0:40:33.2 Mike Vacanti: You can Continue on your number of people, theory here.


0:40:35.7 Jordan Syatt: You always have these sad stories that Yeah.


0:40:37.8 Mike Vacanti: I Know. I literally was just gonna say, what is this podcast? I’m like what are we even talking about?


0:40:47.6 Jordan Syatt: Let me ask you that. So actually I can’t ask you that. I’m not gonna ask you that. That’s not fair. Okay. Yeah. Nevermind. I would say in any group.


0:40:56.1 Mike Vacanti: You’re in your golf trip. Who don’t you? But that’s 16 people. [laughter] I know exactly where you were going with it.


0:41:00.3 Jordan Syatt: I Wasn’t gonna ask who I was gonna say, is there someone that you maybe don’t like as much, or like you may, or like you may or like he’s a…


0:41:06.3 Mike Vacanti: But that’s different than someone you don’t like. And also 16 and four are very different.


0:41:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Well, of course I think I had a, the number might’ve been too low. Maybe the minimum is like between 8-12 minimum. Somewhere in that range.


0:41:19.3 Mike Vacanti: Or Just maybe there’s often someone in a group who is quite annoying. That could be. And that was the kid. He went right over you on purpose to try and drown you.


0:41:28.8 Jordan Syatt: Right. Yeah, exactly. [laughter]


0:41:31.0 Mike Vacanti: All right. Question of the day, [laughter] Jordan [laughter] If you had to select one of the following in a fight to the death, who would it be. A 16-foot crocodile, A 200 pound chimpanzee, a 9-foot tall grizzly bear. Those are your options.


0:42:11.9 Jordan Syatt: And is this me versus that animal?


0:42:16.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:42:18.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh geez. I would take.


0:42:20.4 Mike Vacanti: Or an 80-foot anaconda.


0:42:21.8 Jordan Syatt: Crocodile. I would take the crocodile. Do you wanna gimme your answer before? Who, who would you pick?


0:42:29.7 Mike Vacanti: None. I don’t wanna fight any of those things.


0:42:31.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, you, that’s not an option. Michael, you a…




0:42:37.8 Jordan Syatt: Which one would you pick?


0:42:40.7 Mike Vacanti: I suppose I’d pick the grizzly, just because with grizzlies you can play dead. [laughter] I’ve read on the internet and like there’s a very small chance that they just beat the crap outta you. But you don’t die.


0:42:56.7 Jordan Syatt: But it’s a fight to the death. So you’ve gotta engage.


0:43:00.7 Mike Vacanti: You have to kill it. That’s right.




0:43:11.1 Jordan Syatt: How are you gonna kill the crock?


0:43:13.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, here’s the thing. I would find higher ground, ideally some type of a tree or some type of a building that I could climb up on, right? And then from there, at the very least, I could try and either jump on it and really hurt it. Also, if you get around, its back. If you get on top of it, jumping from above, you have a better angle to choke it out, be on top, whatever, poke it in its eyes. Or if there’s like, there are things up wherever I am, I could throw it at them. But definitely jumping down and landing on it as hard as you could, wouldn’t feel good. But I think that’s the best chance of survival. A 200-pound chimpanzee, fuck no. Absolutely not. That thing is gonna rip your fucking face off.


0:44:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s true.


0:44:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Grizzly bear. No way. You’re done. Anaconda? Good luck. No, like all of them. And it, it, the crocodile, same thing, but I think the crocodile’s biggest weakness is that it can’t follow you anywhere. The anaconda, it can’t follow you up. It can run pretty fast. You got a zigzag, zigzag… [laughter]


0:44:20.1 Mike Vacanti: You got to zigzag.




0:44:23.7 Jordan Syatt: You gotta zigzag.


0:44:25.1 Mike Vacanti: Jordan just giving us this piece of information, we were all taught as children that like, “if you’re ever getting chased by a crocodile alligator, you zigzag.” You said it…


0:44:34.4 Jordan Syatt: You zigzag.


0:44:36.0 Mike Vacanti: You said it like, “you gotta zigzag!”




0:44:39.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you zigzag.


0:44:45.1 Mike Vacanti: If you have a tree and like all these rocks stored up there that you’re gonna throw down, then I would, then take the grizzly.


0:44:51.2 Jordan Syatt: No I’m not saying it’s stored.


0:44:51.4 Mike Vacanti: And I would use my gun to Well, you’re.


0:44:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Well, that’s stupid. I’m not saying that I have them stored up. I’m saying like, if there’s a tree, you could break a branch off. You have to, whatever nature gives you don’t just have a gun out there. But like, even with the tree branch, like you could try and poke it in the eye. Whatever. You can hit smack it. It doesn’t, you do that to a grizzly. Good luck. Like the grizzly doesn’t even feel that.


0:45:13.2 Mike Vacanti: Would you rather fight? Would you rather hang on. I’m gonna add one more to the mix and tell me if this changes your answer. So those four or Gordon Ryan.


0:45:22.5 Jordan Syatt: With all of the same… Like, I don’t have any extra, it’s just nature, right? I’m just out in nature.


0:45:28.1 Mike Vacanti: Yes.


0:45:29.4 Jordan Syatt: So if everyone doesn’t know, Gordon Ryan is the world’s greatest Jiu-jitsu grappler, No-Gi grappler of all time. Like one of the greatest fighters ever. I would still go with the alligator.


0:45:40.9 Mike Vacanti: You don’t think that you could, because against Gordon it wouldn’t just be jiu-jitsu. Like you could catch him with a flying knee or you could catch him with like a hook or something.


0:45:50.6 Jordan Syatt: No I couldn’t [laughter] I couldn’t.


0:45:58.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s…


0:46:00.5 Jordan Syatt: I know for a fact.


0:46:00.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s a great way to end the podcast. Thank you for laughing with us. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Next week we’ll be back with regular scheduled programming, more fitness, more business, more good things coming your way, and probably still some laughs ’cause that’s what we do here. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review. Five stars would be ideal. Help us grow the podcast. Thank you very much for listening. Have a wonderful week and we’ll see you next Tuesday.


0:46:22.5 Jordan Syatt: Have a good one.

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