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In this episode, we talk about the Carnivore Diet, how to mitigate hanger in a calorie deficit, unfettered anger, how to stay consistent, and blah blah blah.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:13.6 Mike Vacanti: Coming in hot, coming in hot for the podcast. Dude, we haven’t missed a podcast in what feels like years.


0:00:20.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, remember when we used to miss ’em a lot? We were pretty lackadaisical with the pod. Now we’re the opposite.


0:00:26.8 Mike Vacanti: We would take like a month off just randomly cancelling pods.


0:00:30.3 Jordan Syatt: We’re on the regimen.


0:00:31.4 Mike Vacanti: We’re pretty dialed, I got to say. I mean, once a week isn’t that impressive, but the consistency and longevity of it so far is really something. So I’m glad we’re getting today in.


0:00:42.8 Jordan Syatt: We should give a shout to all the people who joined the mentorship ahead of the sale, the price increasing. So we’ve gotten a bunch of people signing up and just want to give you a shout. Welcome to the mentorship. We’ll see you in the… We’re doing a Q&A in like 45 minutes. We’ll see you in there.


0:01:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Right, after this.


0:01:00.3 Jordan Syatt: And… Yeah, yeah. So we’re doing that. We’re gonna be changing the schedule actually in the near future for the entirety of the mentorship. Prior, we’ve always done two Q&As a month. We’re gonna be switching to one weekly. Every week we’re gonna be doing a Q&A soon. So welcome and congrats to all the people who have joined ahead of the price increase.


0:01:23.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, absolutely. And the increase in frequency is largely just because we’re seeing more success in people who are consistently showing up to Q&As and the accountability factor of those lives. We’re getting positive feedback on, and so we’re ramping it up. I’m excited about it too. Weekly pods, weekly Q&As. I’m trying to pull up my file and give some real shoutouts by name, but my computer is giving me some issues at the moment.


0:01:51.8 Jordan Syatt: The government’s probably hacked in there.


0:01:53.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think I have anything the government wants at this point in my life.




0:01:58.9 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been watching too much Edward Snowden.


0:02:01.0 Mike Vacanti: You have been.


0:02:02.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, I have been.


0:02:03.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think the government hacks you for watching Edward Snowden. I think the government would come after you for being Edward Snowden.


0:02:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, based on what Snowden says, they’re watching everybody, or at least they were.


0:02:14.6 Mike Vacanti: Couple real quick shoutouts, just in recent… Chris, Christopher, Scott, Sam, Heidi, Amanda, welcome.


0:02:26.2 Jordan Syatt: Welcome. Welcome to mentorship.


0:02:28.2 Mike Vacanti: We’re pumped to have you. I’m excited to pod, bro. I still have some pre-workout left, which I’m going to drink for the caffeine because I didn’t play my cards right this morning and left myself 28 minutes for a workout, which I never do, but…


0:02:41.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, geez. Did you get a workout in or no?


0:02:44.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.


0:02:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Nice.


0:02:47.8 Mike Vacanti: I can’t later today. I would normally reschedule it, but I had a push day, modified everything, got it in.


0:02:54.9 Jordan Syatt: Nice, nice. Way to go. I had a workout in my garage, garage workout.


0:03:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Ooh.


0:03:01.2 Jordan Syatt: Took the sandbag out in the driveway. Did some… Dude, this is suburban life. This is where it’s at.


0:03:07.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re a suburban man now.


0:03:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Took the air bike out, took the Airdyne, put it out in the driveway, sandbag out there, kettlebells, Bulgarian bag, maces. Neighbors are like, “What the hell? Who just moved in our neighborhood?”




0:03:21.1 Jordan Syatt: “What is this guy doing?” But yeah, yeah, it’s good.


0:03:24.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome. Has it been nice outside?


0:03:26.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it’s been incredible. It’s been absolutely perfect.


0:03:30.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s fun.


0:03:32.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I like the heat. It’s like ’90s. I really like the heat.


0:03:36.0 Mike Vacanti: And the sun. You can’t beat that UV.


0:03:38.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s the best.


0:03:39.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Just feel different.


0:03:46.2 Jordan Syatt: The cardio machines that I have, I have my Airdyne bike and I have the walking pad. I’m going to get a treadmill and eventually I’ll get an elliptical. I want to have outfit an entire gym. But right now I’ve got the air bike and the Walking Pad. The walking pad doesn’t go very fast. So the really only…


0:04:04.7 Mike Vacanti: And we’re talking three car garage with one car in it, and your whole…


0:04:09.3 Jordan Syatt: No cars, no cars in it. The entire garage is gym.


0:04:12.6 Mike Vacanti: Where do you put your car?


0:04:13.6 Jordan Syatt: In the driveway.


0:04:14.7 Mike Vacanti: A lot of trust in those neighbors…


0:04:16.4 Jordan Syatt: I mean, we’ve got Ring cams, and we’ve got… If they do something, they’re on.


0:04:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Okay.


0:04:21.8 Jordan Syatt: We know what’s going on.


0:04:23.1 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:04:23.2 Jordan Syatt: And the guy came over first when he moved in, introduced himself. Super nice guy. Anyway…


0:04:28.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, then nothing bad can happen.


0:04:30.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. No one who’s ever introduced themself has ever committed a crime. Anyway…


0:04:34.4 Mike Vacanti: [chuckle] Three-car garage is a good amount of space. That’s cool.


0:04:38.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, great space. But basically riding on the Airdyne for 30, 40, 50 minutes sucks, just for that zone too. And I could go out and I could run and do that stuff, but basically it’s been cool having the whole gym to myself. And I’ve been doing more circuit style training as a way of getting more in rather than just sitting on the Airdyne or just running. I’ll go on the Airdyne for five minutes, then I’ll do different Bulgarian bag stuff or kettlebell stuff or mace stuff or whatever, get back on the bike for five minutes and I go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I’ll do… Today I did bike five minutes, Bulgarian bag rotations, mace rotations, back on the bike for five minutes. I did six rounds of that. So I did 30 minutes on the bike in total while doing some mobility and stability work in-between, went by so fast.


0:05:36.8 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:05:37.8 Jordan Syatt: The 30 minutes on the bike went by so much faster than if I just was sitting on there for 30 minutes straight.


0:05:43.6 Mike Vacanti: That makes sense.


0:05:44.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Just five minutes on, off; five minutes on, off; five minutes on, off. It’s like you’re only going on five minutes, not going to 30, 40, whatever. So it just went by much faster. And I feel like more productive too. I was able to get off, get some movement in, some rotations. That rotational work, man, that thoracic rotation, man, oh.


0:06:02.8 Mike Vacanti: So you like getting some spinal rotation. Feels good?


0:06:06.3 Jordan Syatt: Big spinal rotation, spinal flexion guy. And spine is designed to move.


0:06:10.7 Mike Vacanti: Not extension though? Just flexion?


0:06:13.8 Jordan Syatt: Well, I feel like I get enough extension. I get enough extension, I mean, the neutral posture is already slightly extended anyway. So I do… [laughter] That lordotic posture, it’s already slightly extended. And I do get enough of that, but I feel like the rotation work and then deep spine… Last night, I did a workout last night, and I’m just holding these stretches, like light-weighted stretches. I’ll get up on a little box and I’ll get a sandbag and I’ll do a toe touch. But I’ll hold the light sandbag, it’s like 20 pounds, and it will pull me down. So I’m doing a really, really, really deep toe touch with the added weight from the sandbag, and I just held that for between 3-5 minutes for a couple sets, and it just…


0:07:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Wow. Three to five minutes?


0:07:07.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I put up…


0:07:08.8 Mike Vacanti: So your feet are elevated?


0:07:10.4 Jordan Syatt: No. I’m standing on a box. Standing on a box. And so, yeah… Oh, sorry. I thought you meant my feet were in the air. Yeah, my feet… I’m elevated. I’m standing on a box.


0:07:18.1 Mike Vacanti: You’re not floating, you’re not… [chuckle]




0:07:20.0 Mike Vacanti: This isn’t Harry Potter, yeah. [chuckle]




0:07:23.3 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:07:24.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s like a deficit stretch type of a thing. It’s I’m reaching… If I was doing it on the floor, I wouldn’t be able to go as far down. But because I’m on the box, I can reach further and further down.


0:07:35.0 Mike Vacanti: Is that deadlift variation you were doing where you’re essentially taking that move through its range?


0:07:40.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. With the sandbag? Oh, yeah. I forgot about that one, actually. I need to do that one again.


0:07:44.0 Mike Vacanti: But this sounds like just a static hold, and you’re probably sinking deeper and deeper, and getting more and more range at the bottom in a 3-5 minute weighted set like that.


0:07:54.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Every minute, I’ll try and get a little bit deeper, a little bit deeper. Every minute, I’ll just go a little bit deeper. Pause. I know what you’re saying. You got that smirk on your face. [laughter]


0:08:12.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.


0:08:13.8 Jordan Syatt: Thanks, brother. I appreciate that.


0:08:17.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m jealous of the solo workout.


0:08:20.1 Jordan Syatt: What do you mean?


0:08:21.2 Mike Vacanti: No other humans.


0:08:22.6 Jordan Syatt: Would you ever do that in your garage or basement or whatever, just set up a whole gym? I feel like you like going to the gym.


0:08:31.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I go back and forth on it. I like going to a gym where I don’t know anyone, which is why I have to switch gyms every six months because then you just get to know someone…




0:08:41.7 Mike Vacanti: And then there’s conversation, and next thing you know, your 90-second rest is like 11 minutes and you’re like, “How am I stuck in this conversation?” It’s just… Yeah. Basement over garage, Minnesota garage, I don’t know how that would… It might be kind of cool in the winter.


0:08:58.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Walk in the snow, like that clip I just posted of you on the Instagram page.


0:09:03.4 Mike Vacanti: Dorian Yates.


0:09:04.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:09:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Legend.


0:09:05.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny. I’m listening to Edward Norton on Joe Rogan now. I Googled Joe Rogan’s best podcast episodes. I’m just going through, and Edward Norton is one of my all time favorite actors, just one of the greatest of all time. And him and Joe were talking about… I just said “Joe” as if I know him. I don’t know Joe Rogan. But him and Joe were talking about some of their favorite musicians, and they were talking about Eric Clapton and Lenny Kravitz and people who just changed music forever.


0:09:37.8 Jordan Syatt: And I forget who specifically they were talking about in this instance, but Edward Norton brought up this one musician who he was so far ahead of his time, and he was such a unique person because every time he did something that people loved, he would immediately stop doing it. And as soon as people gave him positive feedback, he would change it immediately. He’d be like, “Oh, you like that? All right, well, now I’m gonna do this instead and I’m not gonna do that ever again.” And then at first people would be upset, they’d, “What are you doing?”


0:10:12.3 Jordan Syatt: Apparently this guy… I forget who it was. He was big with acoustic. He got big from acoustic guitar. And then at a huge event when he was really young and just started to get famous, he was like, “Screw that,” and he plugged in an electric guitar. And people got pissed, and people were trying to cut the chords with axes and knives, trying to… They’re calling him a traitor. He didn’t care. He was like, “Turn up the sound, let’s play it louder, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.” And then once people started to like that, then he was like, “Oh, you like that?” then he switches. And Edward Norton was saying like, “How many people do you know who just as soon as they get positive feedback, they go the complete other direction? ‘Cause no one does that.” In my mind, I was like, “Oh, I know one person who does that.




0:10:57.8 Jordan Syatt: I know one guy who as soon as he gets a positive feed-, immediate-, “Oh, you like that I did that? All right, I’m gonna do something completely different now.” That’s you. [laughter] I was like the whole time, I was like, “That’s Mike.” [laughter]


0:11:09.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s really funny. I remember listening to that episode ’cause I like Edward Norton a lot too. But I don’t remember that story from it. That’s really funny. Yeah. Man, the recognition of ego and then not liking the way that the positive feedback feels, and then pivoting as a result of that. ‘Cause it’s not like taking away like, “Oh, you like this? I’m gonna make sure you don’t get something you enjoy.” That’s not the thought process.




0:11:39.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s like, “This is so good. You’re so great. Do more, do more.” It’s like, “I’m not that great. I’m not doing more.” I don’t know. I saw a funny, somewhat related, and maybe we’ll have David play this clip, but I saw a clip of Tom Brady talking about his mindset when he was playing football, and his mindset heading into a game. And very like Michael Jordan, very like Gary, very like things that you and I have talked about over the years, which is… He said the strongest emotion for his success is anger, and that when he didn’t have it, he would drum something up. He would latch onto any little thing. “Oh, oh, you disrespect me as a quarterback? Oh, you think I can’t make this throw? Oh, you think that… ” Like, “F you. I’m… No, I’ll show you,” that mindset…




0:12:35.7 Tom Brady: You’ve got to create a lot of different emotion to heighten your sense of awareness and focus. For me, anger was good. Anger was good because it was motivating. The more I could create an enemy, the more I wanted to go and kill those guys. Now, I knew I wasn’t gonna kill ’em physically, but man, if I could just… “What did they say? And what did they look like? They disrespect me at all?” And did that a-hole, actually say something, those are little, little, little things that can get me right in the emotional frame of mind, that when I ran on the field and I said, “Let’s f-cking go.”


0:13:17.6 Mike Vacanti: …And almost talking about how he had to manu- or I think I inferred that he had to manufacture that at certain points in his career when he didn’t actually have it, which is so relatable for me.


0:13:30.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have any moments in time that you can explicitly remember where you had to manufacture that?


0:13:39.6 Mike Vacanti: Dude, remember when… I didn’t even know I was manufacturing it. Remember when I made the post and I was like, “Some of my contemporaries were saying I’m retired…”




0:13:48.0 Mike Vacanti: “I’m not retired.”




0:13:50.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, tons. But here’s the interesting thing. There was way more actual anger than there was manufactured anger.


0:14:00.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:14:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Once the actual anger started to run out, there were some instances of manufactured anger to get through hard work sessions, but at a certain point, manufactured anger is still real anger and you don’t wanna hold onto that. It’s better to be motivated by light than by darkness, which I think is harder. I think being motivated by dark, kinda like a lot of the stuff Tim Grover, I believe that’s his name, Kobe and Michael’s old personal trainer, in his book, Relentless, talks about that, being motivated by the dark side. Great for monetary success and worldly success, probably not the best thing long-term for your soul. But to each their own. But no, don’t put this solely on me. You’ve maybe not manufactured anger, but you don’t think that anger has been the strongest emotion for you when you were…


0:14:53.5 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t put anything on you. I just asked if you remembered any moments. I didn’t say this is only you. I was just curious. [chuckle] It was just you.


0:14:56.8 Mike Vacanti: [chuckle] Oh, no. Okay, all right. [chuckle] Okay, okay, okay.


0:15:00.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s real anger there. Don’t put this on me. [laughter]


0:15:02.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m not angry.




0:15:05.8 Mike Vacanti: Here’s the fortunate or unfortunate thing. I’m actually not angry these days, which is directly correlated to output.


0:15:14.2 Jordan Syatt: What do you mean? You put out less content, you mean?


0:15:17.4 Mike Vacanti: I mean, when I actually had things to be angry about or carried anger around, yeah, I created a lot more. Contentment leads to less of that for me. There are a small number of people I believe who create purely out of love of the game, but I think that’s… I don’t know, 1% of people on the internet, 2% maybe. Perhaps less.


0:15:50.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes. It’s very… I think now it’s even more rare than ever because people start creating now with the intent to get something as a result of it. They don’t start creating because they love it…


0:16:01.2 Mike Vacanti: Rich or famous.


0:16:02.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:16:02.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:16:03.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. They want… Yeah.


0:16:03.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s one of those two things: I wanna be a TikToker, I wanna be a YouTuber. I want to get fame, I want to get money. Yeah.


0:16:09.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Whereas before, like Dom Mazzetti, like that guy, and I don’t know him, but when he started making contents, I feel like he started doing it because it was hilarious and he loved it. That type of individual I don’t think exists anymore because it’s… Before, I think you really had to jump through hoops at that point in time to start posting online. You had to figure it out. You had to… And there’s still a level of figuring out, but it was different. You couldn’t just do it from your phone as easily as you could now. You had to plan it out. It was not as easy, not as streamlined. You had to really go outta your way. You had to enjoy that process. Now it’s so much easier and the potential benefits are so much easier to come by, and there’s so much more in your face I would say, not necessarily easier to come by, they’re more in your face. More people have them, they’re more realistic, I think. And…


0:17:13.2 Mike Vacanti: More people are doing it. There’s more case studies, more success stories, more attention on the internet. So it’s a bigger driver of marketing for every business.


0:17:22.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Not many people are doing it for the love of the game.


0:17:26.0 Mike Vacanti: But when I picture you circa ’20, pre-Israel move, so like, I don’t know, 2013, 2014, and I picture you sitting on your couch for 14 straight hours, just answering emails for 14 straight hours. I picture a charged-up, young, hungry, single, chip-on-shoulder, something-to-prove dude.


0:17:52.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, for sure, 100%.


0:17:55.1 Mike Vacanti: And as whatever is underlying that motivation…


0:18:01.6 Jordan Syatt: Fear. [laughter]


0:18:03.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. Well, no, ’cause you still have that. [chuckle]


0:18:06.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [laughter]


0:18:06.8 Mike Vacanti: But I think there were probably even more, ’cause anger and fear are different. You’re definitely more motivated by fear now than anger.


0:18:14.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, yeah. I think there was definitely more anger and ego then, and now less anger, ego far less; like no anger and very little ego, and much more fear. Yeah, that’s for sure.


0:18:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately I don’t have fear or much anger or ego.




0:18:36.8 Mike Vacanti: Or fortunately. There’s pros and cons.




0:18:41.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s interesting.


0:18:42.2 Jordan Syatt: You’re just epicurean. You’re just like, “Yeah, it’s good. Let’s go to the grocery store. Let’s go on a walk outside.” [laughter]


0:18:51.9 Mike Vacanti: I do like moving a lot. I think 99% of humans would benefit from more movement.


0:19:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah.


0:19:01.0 Mike Vacanti: All right. Let’s get into some questions. That was solid banter.


0:19:04.1 Jordan Syatt: Actually, I just texted Layne Norton ’cause he put up a phenomenal post on seed oils, which are just one of the things that are getting a huge bad reputation right now. And I just texted him, I said, “Amazing, amazing, amazing post on seed oils.” And he replies, “People are losing their minds. LOL.” He made a great post. ‘Cause there’s a huge question right now about seed oils. It’s one of the things that all these carnivore people and nonsense are hating on seed oils, but he broke it down super well, basically explaining where the misinformation is coming from, why people are misinterpreting data, and then what the actual randomized human control trials are saying, which are different than epidemiological or in-vitro studies; like let’s actually look at real people in real circumstances. He made a great post about that.


0:19:58.1 Mike Vacanti: Shoutout Layne. Layne’s a beast.


0:20:00.1 Jordan Syatt: Did I send you the picture of the DM I got from the guy yesterday who sent me a vial of his blood after doing a year on carnivore?


0:20:06.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:20:07.0 Jordan Syatt: How absolutely wild is that?


0:20:10.5 Mike Vacanti: I mean, I don’t know. It looked weird for sure. Did he send you his numbers?


0:20:15.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, well, he didn’t send me his numbers, but here, look. His blood, his triglycerides are so high that it… What’s the name? I forget the name of this… I started Googling and doing research, I spoke to Spencer Nadolsky, Danielle Belardo, who’s a cardiologist about this.


0:20:35.0 Mike Vacanti: I got it. It’s disgusting.


0:20:36.9 Jordan Syatt: All right, enough. Take it off the screen.


0:20:38.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. [laughter]


0:20:38.4 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s called lipemic. Basically where there were so much fat in the blood that after they let this sit for five minutes, that you could actually start to see the fat congeal in the same way that you see fat on a steak. You see marbling on a steak? That’s fat. And this guy’s blood had so much fat in it that it actually congeals. And I started Googling it, researching it, I texted Spencer Nadolsky about it, I texted Danielle Belardo about it, who’s a cardiologist. She’s gonna come on my podcast, we’re gonna have a whole conversation about it. She said the stories that she has about people who’ve been fooled into doing carnivore are so unbelievably sad. The number of people that she’s worked with who are dead set doing carnivore, dah, dah, dah, they… And she actually had… She told me she has to… When she has to write up reports, that she will tell a patient like, “I told you not to do carnivore,” and they need to sign off on it. They need to sign it, that she has to literally say like, “Just please say, I’m telling you don’t do this, but of your own volition you’re ignoring what I’m telling you.”


0:21:45.3 Jordan Syatt: And those people come back, and they get more and more sick, and they get liver issues, kidney issues, pancreas issues, all these issues that come from this. And this guy, it’s crazy because I kept talking to him throughout the day, and he told me that he goes CT scans showed damage to liver, pancreas, and kidneys. It’s just absolutely wild. And this is a military guy. So he’s in the military and he’s active military. So he’s very fit, very healthy. Otherwise, he exercises all the time. This is not an issue of him just being sedentary. So that just absolutely… I knew it’s not a smart diet. And some people might be able to follow it and be okay. I don’t know. But that blew me away to see that level of fat in his blood.


0:22:36.9 Mike Vacanti: I would love to see if he has blood work pre- and post- a year of carnivore. That’d be really interesting.


0:22:42.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, me as well.


0:22:44.0 Mike Vacanti: But yeah, man, I actually… It’s funny. This is probably a year ago now. I texted Spencer, I was like, “Dude, amazing SEO work on that cholesterol video.” And he’s like, “What? What are you talking about?” ‘Cause when I typed into YouTube maybe a year and a half ago, “how to reduce cholesterol naturally,” and just seeing what all was out there, and his video was the first one…


0:23:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, really?


0:23:09.9 Mike Vacanti: And it was super straightforward, it was a nine-minute video but there were four takeaways, and I think I remember them all. It was reduce saturated fat, which someone who’s eating carnivore, and carnivore people tend to lean toward red meat for whatever reason. So they’re eating like, well, 100 grams of saturated fat a day, depending on how many calories they’re eating, maybe more than that, which is a massive amount. Decrease saturated fat, increase fiber, reduce sugar, and increase polyunsaturated fats, I believe were the four but…


0:23:51.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that makes sense.


0:23:52.9 Mike Vacanti: Reduce saturated fat was the big one. And I’ve seen so many people in a matter of months watch their LDL, watch their total cholesterol levels, watch their VLDL, watch ApoB, watch these markers go down in a very short amount of time by making these dietary changes. And in carnivore, you’re getting massive amounts of saturated fat, you’re getting zero fiber. Zero. Yeah, it’s not good.


0:24:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:24:29.8 Mike Vacanti: You can obviously do it and lose weight, like high protein, control your calories, there’s a lot of satiety, you’re eliminating tons of foods that are easy to overeat, right? So if someone who’s overweight or obese limits most foods which in turn leads to their calories being in a decent place, they’re gonna lose weight. And you can build muscle/retain muscle because it’s a high protein diet, cool, but like you just showed, just because you’re retaining muscle, losing weight, and if your food quality is not great, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s good for your health.


0:25:03.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I also think if you take someone who’s morbidly obese and they do this for… And it helps them lose a lot of weight. I think in that instance that person’s gonna get healthier. They’re gonna lose a lot of body fat, their numbers are gonna improve. But what happens when that person reaches a healthy body weight and then now they’re no longer in a caloric deficit, and they’re eating more around maintenance potentially even surplus calories with these super high saturated fats, no fiber, all of that? That’s when I think we’re gonna have real issues, not to mention… Yes, again, short term, I think we’ll see overall health improve, but my concern also would be on kidneys, liver, pancreas, with that super high level protein, very high fat, and literally no fiber. Even when they are losing body fat and improving the majority of other health markers, and it’s just, long term, it’s not good.


0:26:02.2 Mike Vacanti: You’re a big kidney, liver, pancreas guy these days.


0:26:06.0 Jordan Syatt: Big time, dude. Big time kidney, liver, panc-. KLP.




0:26:11.4 Jordan Syatt: KLP. That’s what they call me. [laughter]


0:26:14.0 Mike Vacanti: Do they?


0:26:15.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s what they say. Yeah, I’m the KLP guy.


0:26:18.1 Mike Vacanti: That makes sense. And your neighbors in the suburbs call you that?


0:26:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. That’s what they… At the community barbecues. “KLP is here.” They put it on my grill, on my Traeger, “KLP.” They gifted it to me.


0:26:33.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s where you know you’re watching too much Rogan… “On my Traeger.”




0:26:37.3 Jordan Syatt: I always say that just because we’ve been to Home Depot like six times in the last month ’cause we were moving and we had to keep going and get boxes. And they had Traegers there, and I was like, “Oh, man, these look nice.” Do you have a grill?


0:26:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:26:48.9 Jordan Syatt: Do you grill?


0:26:49.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t grill a ton, but I have a grill, yeah.


0:26:53.3 Jordan Syatt: Is it that you don’t like the… You don’t want to get too much of the charcoal there? Why don’t you like to grill?


0:27:01.1 Mike Vacanti: [chuckle] It’s a gas grill.


0:27:03.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, God, okay.


0:27:04.0 Mike Vacanti: No, I just… My wife makes amazing dinners and I’m usually not the one preparing, but occasionally I’ll grill.


0:27:11.2 Jordan Syatt: Got it, okay. What do you like to grill?


0:27:13.1 Mike Vacanti: Tomorrow night, or no, tonight, I’m having some family over and grilling burgers.


0:27:18.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice. So you are a griller. You grill.


0:27:21.0 Mike Vacanti: Nah, you just hit me on the right day. It’s been several weeks since I’ve grilled, but yeah.


0:27:25.4 Jordan Syatt: What are you going to grill? Burgers, turkey burgers?


0:27:27.3 Mike Vacanti: No, we have that cow that we purchased.


0:27:30.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you bought a cow.


0:27:32.2 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm. Well, all of my family and siblings, and yeah.


0:27:36.8 Jordan Syatt: You all like split a cow financially and physically?


0:27:41.2 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm.


0:27:41.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s awesome.


0:27:42.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, so we’ll have… That beef is so good, so tender, and delicious, so we’ll do that tonight.


0:27:48.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s awesome.


0:27:49.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But yeah, man. Not eating any fruits and vegetables indefinitely is one thing. But then to be like a guru around it and market it as the best diet for health is pretty wild.


0:28:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude. It’s pretty dangerous, man. How do you prepare your burgers to grill? Do you do anything with eggs? How do you do it?


0:28:17.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s like if I was like… Jordan, what’s your strategy in Texas Hold’em?


0:28:23.0 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s not. You grill, you grilled. So, I don’t like to grill ever.


0:28:26.2 Mike Vacanti: I just said I barely grill. I don’t know.


0:28:28.8 Jordan Syatt: But what do you do? I just…


0:28:30.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna Google “best way to grill burgers,” and then I’m gonna make some patties. I don’t know.


0:28:33.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, God. Okay.


0:28:34.9 Mike Vacanti: Put some spices and stuff in there. I’m not a chef. Back in the day, do you know what I used to do? I used to just burn the crap out of chicken breasts like six to eight at a time on my stove, and overcook them because then you get the jaw fatigue, then you’re not as hungry. I was like 7% body fat…




0:28:53.9 Mike Vacanti: And then I would use very small amounts of barbecue sauce as like the carb in the meal, and I would eat that. And so I basically have this 100 gram of protein and 20 gram carb, almost zero fat meal. And then one out of three times later that night, I’d have to have two bowls of cereal because I’d be so dang hungry because dinner wasn’t satisfying at all.




0:29:16.8 Mike Vacanti: But it was Kashi Go Lean, high fiber, high protein cereal. Just…


0:29:20.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, Kashi Go Lean, not the Crunch though. That’s too high, high calorie.


0:29:24.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think in my three college years when I was eating Kashi Go Lean consistently, which I still remember had like four and a half fat, 13 protein and like 13-ish carb and nine was from fiber or something ridiculous, I don’t think I ever bought the Crunch where it was like five protein, 25 carb, eight fat. I was like, “What is this? Why is this even Kashi?”




0:29:49.5 Jordan Syatt: In my house, when I was a kid, when my parents would go through phases of like, “All right, we’re gonna be healthy now,” they’ll get Kashi Go Lean Crunch.


0:29:57.1 Mike Vacanti: Nice. Oh, Crunch.


0:29:58.0 Jordan Syatt: The Crunch. That’s like the house that my family didn’t know health and stuff and so. But I remember as I got into it more and I started to read the nutrition labels, I was like, “Why the fuck?” And I was like, “Can we get the Go Lean?” And they were like, “Why? It tastes terrible.” I was like, “Yeah, but look at the nutrition.”




0:30:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, because the Crunch had both… I think it was slivered almonds and these like granola…


0:30:24.4 Jordan Syatt: A lot of sugar.


0:30:25.0 Mike Vacanti: These like granola balls that were coated in something that made it tasty that, yeah, we’re sugar.


0:30:31.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It was just straight… It might as well have been Cap’n Crunch. Yeah, but they just still branded it Kashi Go Lean, but it was Cap’n Crunch.


0:30:39.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.


0:30:41.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:30:42.1 Mike Vacanti: Want to fire up a question?


0:30:43.3 Jordan Syatt: All right. So someone said, “I just joined the Inner Circle and I’ve cut calories to be in a calorie deficit, but now I’m cranky a lot. How do I control that?”


0:30:54.4 Mike Vacanti: Hangry.


0:30:55.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, hangry.


0:31:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Should we assume that it’s a reasonable deficit and not an extremely large deficit which is going to be not sustainable and lead to higher amounts of hangriness?


0:31:11.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Because hopefully since they joined the Inner Circle, they’re doing it properly. But some of them join the Inner Circle and then they, “Hey, I know you said do goal body weight by 12, but I did go body weight by eight.” And I’m like, “All right, well, then you’re not following my fucking instructions.” So assuming that they actually did goal body weight by 12 and it’s a sustainable deficit, yeah, we’re gonna assume that.


0:31:31.9 Mike Vacanti: I mean, there’s a few things going on. One could be related to food choice and making sure you’re getting enough protein, making sure you’re having enough fiber, making sure you’re having slightly higher volume foods like fruits and vegetables and fewer very dense foods like a Snicker bar, is gonna lead to a bit more satiety and probably you feeling better. There’s also a part of me that, I don’t know this individual, so I can’t gauge what was baseline hangriness versus where they’re at now and how in a bad mood are they as a result of this. But being in a deficit sucks. It’s not fun at all. You just did it for 30 days, which isn’t a tremendous amount of time. And by two thirds of the weigh in, you were like, “This sucks. I don’t enjoy this at all.” And so there’s also an element of understand that fat loss phases are only temporary and it is very unenjoyable, but you will get to a place where you’re gonna be able to maintain that progress. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.


0:32:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I like that. I think one of the things that… We could talk about food choice and all that, but I feel like we’ve spoken about that enough. And I think more of the psychology component is the most important. Get the book, Eat It!


0:33:01.2 Mike Vacanti: We crushed that chapter: How to Stay Full in the Calorie Deficit.


0:33:04.8 Jordan Syatt: I think you hit on a really important point, which is being a calorie deficit sucks. The other thing is, a lot of people when they go into a calorie deficit, they’re not really that consistent, which just extends the duration of the calorie deficit. And so they just have to do it for longer. It’s like if you are ridiculously consistent for 30, 60, 90 days, you will lose an unbelievable amount of weight in a very sustainable way so that you don’t have to do it for very long. Whereas if you just are like 40%, 50% consistent, that’s fine, but it’s going to take way, way longer and make it more psychologically draining. It’s like you’re in this calorie deficit prison for a year or two years or three years, when you could just be in jail for like 30, 60, 90 days.


0:34:01.9 Mike Vacanti: [chuckle] Yep.


0:34:02.0 Jordan Syatt: And that’s fine. It sucks, but it’s better to be in there for 90 days than it is being there for three years. So you get unbelievably consistent for those 30, 60, 90 days. You make tremendous progress. If you wanna then go on a maintenance break for a month, two months, three months, go for it. Go on maintenance, go on vacation, whatever it is. Don’t go off the rails, but increase your calories. Then if you wanna come back and lose more, you go for it. But I think it’s one of the biggest issues is, know you’re gonna be hungry, know you’re gonna have to make sacrifices. And that might mean either when you go to dinner, you don’t order the meal that you really want, you get a different meal. Maybe when you get the meal that you really want, you immediately take half of it and put it into a to-go container so that you don’t have the entire meal sitting in front of you.


0:34:52.9 Jordan Syatt: Maybe you don’t drink as much alcohol as you normally would. Maybe you really force yourself to get your steps in your workouts when you don’t want to do it. Yeah, you make some sacrifices so that you can reach your goal more quickly, because you know it’s gonna suck. You know it’s not gonna be fun. And again, this is assuming that your nutrition is really good. If you haven’t read Eat It and you wanna… Or whatever. Like how to stay full on a calorie deficit. There’s a million articles and all that, but high quality food, and be really consistent. And suck it up for a relatively brief period of time and be super consistent. And then also having smart snacks around. For me, I have miso soup. So anytime I’m hungry, boom, 20 calorie packet of miso soup, boom. It staves off my hunger. Easy. I have like a big salad, boom. Easy. Whatever. There are so many different little snack options you can have, but the consistency part is I think the most underrated and most important.


0:35:57.9 Mike Vacanti: I was literally just gonna say that you… One of the huge benefits of maintaining a consistency calendar is that you can’t lie to yourself. Because it’s way too easy to be on track Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, half a Thursday, and then just kinda a bite of this, eat this, not tracking Friday, not tracking Saturday, going to the barbecue, eating the pizza, like rationalizing, “Oh, it’s the weekend, other people are doing it. I’ve been working so hard, I deserve this.” See the scale the next week, no fat loss progress. Or maybe the scale’s up a little bit, getting frustrated, and then being even unintentionally lying to yourself about how your consistency has been. Whereas if you’re maintaining the consistency calendar, you’re gonna see like, yeah, yeah, Xs and Os, or green check, red X, however you wanna do it.


0:36:52.0 Mike Vacanti: You’re gonna see, “Oh, I was on track for three days and then I wasn’t for three days. And then I was on track for two days and then I wasn’t for four days,” and understand that you need a lot better consistency than that to see progress. And like you just said, it’s gonna extend the time you’re in a deficit. Being in a deficit sucks. So it’s gonna extend the amount of time that this is unenjoyable. It’s gonna reduce your ability to stick with it. So yeah, hunker down for a shorter amount of time rather than be in limbo for two or three or five times that amount of time.


0:37:27.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly. People don’t like the idea of making sacrifice as much. It’s…


0:37:36.8 Mike Vacanti: In life.


0:37:38.2 Jordan Syatt: In general, yeah. The idea… Well, everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. It’s like, well, sometimes you’re gonna have to… This is essentially what I mean when I’ve spoken in the past about how sometimes in order to achieve balance, you have to go through periods of unbalance. And I think people just want to have balance right away. But sometimes in order to create balance, you have to toe the line. You have to reach… Go to an edge. You have to push the boundary. ‘Cause how can you know where middle ground is if you’ve never gone past… If you’ve never gone to the edge, you don’t know where the edge is. So you might think you’re in the middle, but you’ve only taken half a step. And you have 100 more steps to go. So how can you really know what balance is if you’ve never seen both sides?


0:38:25.0 Jordan Syatt: I think in order to really be balanced, you have to, “Okay, you know what? For me to be balanced with my nutrition, I have to know what it’s like to be meticulous with my nutrition.” So that then I can pull back and be like, “You know what? I don’t have to be that meticulous. I can be a little bit less and still be fine.” But if you’ve never, ever tracked meticulously even for a week, then how can you possibly know what balance is? I think sometimes you really need to push that boundary if you’re really gonna reach a point in which you can actually be balanced. And I think this goes for everything: Work-life balance, family, relationships, fitness, nutrition, all of it. If you wanna have real balance, you have to push the boundaries so you know what balance is.


0:39:06.0 Mike Vacanti: Well said. Mic drop. We’re wrapping. We got a live stream with the mentorship in six minutes. Jordan, tell everyone what’s happening in less than 30 seconds, with the price increase.


0:39:15.3 Jordan Syatt: Our price is increasing for the mentorship dramatically. This is happening within the next week or two. If you want to get in the mentorship, allow us to help you build an online fitness business for you. You can reach more people, help more people, improve more people’s lives, and also provide support for you and your family. Work from home. We would love that. Join link in the description.


0:39:39.2 Mike Vacanti: Bang. Weekly uploads, that’s what we do. We’ll be here next week. See you next Tuesday. Have the best week. See you soon.

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