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In this episode, we talk about Mike’s new $20,000 treadmill (lol), how to help your clients overcome dealing with stress, technology and AI, Jewish holidays, and more.


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-J & M


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0:00:11.6 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.4 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael? We’ll see how much we’re lagging today on today’s episode in this New York City hotel Wi-Fi set up. Dude, you’re just traveling.


0:00:21.8 Mike Vacanti: I’ve mastered the art of the pre-workout or the pre podcast workout.


0:00:26.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay. What is it?


0:00:28.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s an exact science that requires a certain amount of blood flow and stimuli, but not too much fatigue so that it negatively impacts the podcast.


0:00:40.8 Jordan Syatt: I’m waiting with bated breath. What is it?


0:00:42.7 Mike Vacanti: Somewhere between like six and 12 intense working sets seems to be the magic number.


0:00:51.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting. Okay. What’s the RPE?


0:00:55.3 Mike Vacanti: I took my last set on everything to a nine and then probably an eight on four exercises, and then probably like a seven to eight on my second to last set of all four moves.


0:01:09.6 Jordan Syatt: So are you just doing a regular pyramid up?


0:01:12.9 Mike Vacanti: Today was pyramiding up, practicing that pre-podcast optimization, hit a little single arm lat pull, seated cable row. They had the… I wanted to hit a chest supported dumbbell, but the bench has the adjustable piece that sticks out four inches so you can’t actually dumbbell row with the benches ’cause it’s in the way. So went seated cable row, face pull, rope hammer, bang.


0:01:42.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice. I like that. What do you prefer, pyramid or reverse pyramid?


0:01:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Reverse pyramid’s much more time efficient and probably technically more optimal. I like reverse pyramid more in a deficit, for sure. For someone who wants to go 3x a week, 45 minutes in and out, reverse pyramid. If what you care about most is strength and muscle preservation, reverse pyramid. But I personally like pyramid. I just like the feel. I think the extra lower intensity sets are great for technique improvement, injury prevention, additional warm-up. Like, just feels better and I’m in no rush to get in and out for most workouts, so pyramiding up works well.


0:02:33.0 Jordan Syatt: I could never really get the hang of reverse pyramid from the practical in the gym, trying to lift as heavy as I can on that first work set. I just could never get it, it never felt good to me, especially… Actually, I was about to say, especially on bench, but really with any exercise. Even if I’m thinking whether it’s squats or deadlifts or even tricep press downs where it’s just such an isolated movement, a reverse pyramid where basically it’s like… For anyone who doesn’t know what reverse pyramid is, you do a couple warm-up sets and then your first set is your absolute heaviest set, and then from there on, you drop down a certain percentage. So the first set is the hardest, whereas usually in a regular pyramid, the last set is the hardest. I feel like from a neuromuscular perspective, neurological perspective, the regular pyramid up to your heaviest set, just it made more sense to me intuitively and felt better on my joints, felt better in my brain, which is a weird way to put it, but I’ve never… A lot of people have said, “Yeah, reverse pyramid is optimal,” but it’s never felt optimal for me in practice.”


0:03:51.6 Mike Vacanti: Did you reverse pyramid when you worked with Martin?


0:03:55.3 Jordan Syatt: I did. Yeah.


0:03:56.9 Mike Vacanti: And is that the only time… Or I assume that’s the first time you did it. Is that also the only time you did it?


0:04:03.2 Jordan Syatt: No, that was the first time that I did it, but then I kept doing it for a while and then I would go off for a little bit. And then I’ve gone back and forth throughout my training career. But even a few months ago, I tried doing it for a little while when I was still in the city, when I was going through a real muscle building phase, and it still does… It just doesn’t feel good to me.


0:04:26.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Psychologically, doing that super heavy set very early in the workout and within that exercise is hard. And also, yeah, I understand the waist aspect of accumulating fatigue through lower intensity sets like an RPE 456 that aren’t necessarily having a lot of muscle building effect but are hurting what you could do on your top set. That’s the one argument I get for reverse pyramid. But yeah, in practice, I think you also need to be really angry in practice to put… Like, I can’t do it like I could in 2013.


0:05:19.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s also funny though, like if you watch… And every lifter is different, but at least for me, when I was powerlifting, when I was literally at a competition, I would do a lot of warm-up sets before my legit max effort attempts. So it wasn’t like I would just do a couple of light warmups and then go on to my max effort. I would do a lot of warm-up sets because it just made me feel better.


0:05:52.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m with you. I tend to agree. Would those warm-up sets be… What’s the closest to your max effort set that your last warm-up set would get in terms of weight?


0:06:06.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, so it’s sort of interesting because in powerlifting, I always looked at my first attempt… ’cause there’s three attempts in each lift. My first attempt, I always looked at as my last warm-up. Because the way that Louie taught me was that, your first attempt, you should be able to hit it at 2:00 in the morning. And in power lifting, a lot of people make the mistake of trying to go too heavy on the first lift and then they bomb out of the meet. And so I literally… That was a huge source of pride. I literally never bombed out of a meet, because I always looked at the first lift as my last warm-up. I should be able to hit it at 2:00 in the morning. So my last warm-up before my first attempt was probably around 90% of that first attempt. So 90%, but still, even the first attempt was still a warm-up almost. So that warm-up was probably about 85% or so of what my max would be. And so it’s still pretty close. It was very close to what my initial attempt was going to be. The difference is I wasn’t doing a lot of reps. I would just do between one to three reps with my warm-up weight. I wasn’t doing five, six, seven, eight reps with it.


0:07:20.9 Mike Vacanti: You’re also… Like, most working sets aren’t one-rep maxes, and so I think it makes more sense, it does make more sense to have warm-up sets closer to the weight you’re gonna do on a one-rep max than it does if you’re hitting 3 x 5, 3 x 8, 3 x 12.


0:07:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Makes total sense.


0:07:44.7 Mike Vacanti: But I’m with you. Intuitively, I’m a big warm-up set guy.


0:07:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Especially the older we get.


0:07:49.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. We’re getting up there, brother. Oh…


0:07:52.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, we’re really getting old.


0:07:54.6 Mike Vacanti: I called Woodway.


0:07:56.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. That’s huge, because… Wait, did you order the other treadmill?


0:08:00.8 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, no. You’re going to…


0:08:03.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh.


0:08:04.7 Mike Vacanti: Listen. Yeah. [laughter]


0:08:08.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, this isn’t good.


0:08:09.1 Mike Vacanti: You thought the story was going your way?


0:08:11.4 Jordan Syatt: I thought it was gonna be in favor of me. This is not in favor of me. [chuckle]


0:08:15.8 Mike Vacanti: It is, it is. This is in favor of the real outcome. So I think we… Did we talk about this on the podcast, getting a treadmill for my basement? The random few days in the winter where there’s a snow storm, there’s an ice storm, I just don’t wanna slip and smash my head or break my hip or whatever, bruise my hip, [laughter] I want something downstairs to walk. My wife doesn’t want to be outside in the cold in Minnesota doing cardio and so she wants to get steps in inside. I did a lot of research on treadmills and one of the reasons why commercial gyms have such robust treadmills, stop Googling things, is because…


0:09:00.3 Jordan Syatt: I’m not Googling, I was checking my Wi-Fi.




0:09:02.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Is because they… Thought you’re trying to get information advantage. [laughter] Is because they’re being used 24 hours a day, every day, for years and years by all different sizes of individual. [laughter] And when you do more research… No, no, no, that’s not a funny thing. I mean, they’re being used constantly, so the mileage is huge. But then if you look at the specs on the treadmill, like certain treadmills, the weight limits are actually lower than you would think on a lot of these non-commercial treadmills, which is something that you need to take into account. So I wanted just like a treadmill to be able to walk on. I don’t run, my wife doesn’t run. Just get some steps in here and there downstairs. Found a nice, solid one that makes sense, 1500 bucks. I’m a pretty cheap dude as is dialed in with personal finance and saving, so I’m like, okay, this is… Like, I’m not breaking the bank on this. I feel pretty good about this. Jordan’s like, “Dude, you don’t wanna cheap out on a treadmill.” [laughter] Woodway. Woodway is the one. They had Woodway in my building. It’s super nice. It’s an amazing treadmill. You gotta get Woodway.


0:10:21.5 Jordan Syatt: This is all true.


0:10:24.6 Mike Vacanti: And I had worked out in your gym. I was like, yeah, those treadmills were nice. Did I notice a huge difference between the one that I bought, that I tried in the store versus the one in your gym? I suppose it seemed a little nicer. The tech on yours was definitely nicer. The electronic piece, the… You could be inside, but it looks like you’re walking outside in the forest on the little screen it has, you can hook your phone into it. All these… I think we talked about this too. I go on Woodway’s website, I’m like, all right, what are these costs? I’ll entertain Jordan. And they don’t have the prices listed. I’m like, okay, that’s annoying. And so I ditch it, a day or two passes, and I think, you know what? I’m gonna figure out how much Woodway costs mostly because I think it’ll make good content. And so I call Woodway, I’m like, “Hey, I’m just wondering about this… ” whatever their normal treadmill is. And I’m thinking six grand. ’cause everything that I’m looking at, like the high end at this treadmill store is like 4,000 or 5,000. I’m like, at this Woodway, their prices aren’t listed, thinking maybe six, maybe seven.


0:11:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Alright. Well, that’s what I was thinking. Six grand.




0:11:31.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay. If you say so, big spender. [laughter] But I call the guy, he’s like, “Oh yeah, that basic Woodway blah, blah, blah? 20,000.”


0:11:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Shut the fuck up. Are you serious?


0:11:46.3 Mike Vacanti: $20,000.


0:11:48.4 Jordan Syatt: For a treadmill? Alright, well, that’s stupid. There’s no way. $20,000? I thought it was like five or six.


0:11:57.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Alright. That’s fair. Yeah.


0:12:00.8 Jordan Syatt: I wouldn’t tell you to buy a $20,000 treadmill unless it had a built-in sauna and pool and gym inside of the treadmill. That’s insane. [laughter]


0:12:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Meanwhile, to show the difference between Jordan and I’s personality, yesterday, I was… What was I trying to convince you to start yesterday?


0:12:19.9 Jordan Syatt: I have no idea. What were you trying to convince me to start?


0:12:22.5 Mike Vacanti: I told you to open it up, it’ll save you a few thousand dollars a year.


0:12:25.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, a health savings account. I’m the perfect candidate.




0:12:28.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. I’m like, bro, you gotta open an HSA. I ran the numbers, it’ll save you a couple grand a year. And you’re like, “Woodway. Don’t cheap out. Get a Woodway. You won’t regret it.”


0:12:43.1 Jordan Syatt: “Don’t cheap out, get a…” Dude, Woodway is… They are the best. I think the big difference between you and me is, I didn’t know that you… Oh, wait, yes, I did know this. You went to the store to test out treadmills. That’s like, I would never do that. I would just be like, “yeah, let’s just get it and we’ll figure it out.”




0:13:00.0 Mike Vacanti: “Let’s just get the best one. Oh, oh, it’s 13x the cost? Whatever.”


0:13:07.1 Jordan Syatt: “Whatever. You don’t wanna cheap out on…” [laughter]


0:13:08.1 Mike Vacanti: “You don’t wanna cheap out on a treadmill, trust me.” [laughter]


0:13:14.2 Jordan Syatt: You don’t wanna have it break and then have to have someone come over and fix it.


0:13:16.6 Mike Vacanti: No, I know that you didn’t actually think it was that expensive, but I just… My jaw dropped when he told me the price.


0:13:25.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I can’t believe that. I didn’t even think that any treadmill was $20,000. That’s insane.


0:13:31.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:13:32.1 Jordan Syatt: But I do love Woodways. I don’t like the Woodway, the one… They have one where there’s no motor on it. It’s like you’re the one that makes it go, and it’s curved. I don’t like that one. I know a lot of people say they love it and they didn’t like it at first, and you have to get used to it. I don’t like that one. I like the regular treadmill that is motor powered. And the thing I like about Woodway is just, it’s so nice on my joints. I’ve never been on a treadmill that feels that good. The way that the padding is made, the way that the belt is made just feels so good on my joints. And this is not sponsored. If they wanted to give me a free $20,000 treadmill, I would definitely take it. But yeah, Woodway I think has, in my opinion, the best treadmills I’ve ever used.


0:14:16.5 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take it. [laughter] I have a treadmill and I have principles.


0:14:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Wait, did it get delivered?


0:14:22.3 Mike Vacanti: No, it hasn’t yet, it’s…


0:14:24.4 Jordan Syatt: Did it get delivered?


0:14:27.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s coming this week.


0:14:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. Okay.


0:14:27.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Nice. Thought you’d get a kick outta that.


0:14:30.0 Jordan Syatt: And dude, how’s New York? You’re in New York coaching Gary Vaynerchuck. How’s that going?


0:14:35.0 Mike Vacanti: New York City. It’s good, man. I’m a little under the weather.


0:14:38.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you have a cold?


0:14:40.4 Mike Vacanti: Feel like I got some swollen lymph nodes. Yeah, like the beginning of a cold. But whenever that happens, I drink a lot of water and take it pretty easy, and I’ve been able to prevent myself from actually getting sick sick. But I can tell I’m early fighting something off.


0:14:55.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s ’cause your immune system is just freaking outrageous.


0:15:00.9 Mike Vacanti: This time of year, it’s actually down. I need to get some UV. I need more vitamin D. I think that’s where I’m lacking at this time of year. But what can you do?


0:15:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Do you take vitamin D every day?


0:15:13.5 Mike Vacanti: No. No, I don’t take it every day. I have 10,000 IUs.


0:15:18.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. How often do you take it?


0:15:21.8 Mike Vacanti: One and a half times a week, twice a week maybe.


0:15:25.0 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay.


0:15:26.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t know my actual… I should get blood work. I don’t know my vitamin D levels and I’m not trying to overdo it on… And I’m not, I’m not even close to overdoing it, but 10,000… Like 70,000 IUs a week might end up overdoing it. I just don’t know. And it’s not like vitamin C or something you just pee out. Vitamin D, you store.


0:15:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Do you take vitamin C packets when you start feeling yourself sick?


0:15:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah, I’ll throw down a couple emergencies a day, drink a lot of water, take it easy. But yeah, Gary’s good. We got a couple of good workouts these last few days. Yeah, we just talked about the city. The city’s amazing. It’s buzzing. What you see on social media is not what it is in real life.


0:16:12.0 Jordan Syatt: Is a lie.


0:16:13.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You’ll see like one random scene from one protest and be like, “Oh, X, Y, Z city is in the tubes.” But it’s electric, the city’s amazing especially this time of year.


0:16:26.7 Jordan Syatt: It makes me think of Ryan Long’s skit where he will take videos… If you don’t know who Ryan Long is, he’s a comedian and he’s one of the greatest comedians of our time, and he does so many different types of clips and he’s unbelievably clever. And fair warning, there’s nothing that is too soon for him to make a joke about. Like, it could happen this morning and it could be devastating, and that afternoon, he’s making jokes about it. And if you’re not that into humor like that, don’t look him up because you won’t like it. But he’s so clever with his humor and he did this whole skit where he was pretending to be a videographer that captures realtime events. So during like BLM riots, he would take videos of the cops beating the shit out of people and he would send that to CNN.


0:17:23.6 Jordan Syatt: And then he’s like, “But then I have this other half of the footage of people lighting things on fire and burning down buildings.” And he’s like, “And I’d sell that to Fox.” He’s like, “I can’t let the other half go to Waste.” [laughter] And so it shows how no matter what news station, whatever they wanna put up to support their narrative, he’s like, all right, well, CNN gets the footage of the cops beating people, but Fox gets the footage of the people lighting buildings on fire. And he’s like, this is how I get the best of both worlds as a videographer.




0:17:49.9 Mike Vacanti: That’s funny. That’s funny.


0:17:51.8 Jordan Syatt: And so that’s what we see on social media is like, your algorithm is gonna push whatever you end up consuming more of, and it’s just all nonsense.


0:18:00.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And just like the most extreme thing bubbles up to the top, which isn’t representative of what’s actually happening at large on a day-to-day basis.


0:18:17.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:18:17.6 Mike Vacanti: You got any travel on the horizon?


0:18:22.8 Jordan Syatt: I know I’m doing a speaking event in Nashville, I think at some point in January. And I am doing a podcast in Miami, and I think I’m gonna make those two the same trip. So I’m gonna go, I think, from Dallas to Nashville to Miami. Either Dallas to Nashville to Miami, or Dallas to Miami and then Nashville. I forget, I’m gonna do it all in like the same go, go, go, like 72 hours. But my mom is coming to Dallas for Hanukkah. She’s very excited to see my daughter. She just started really walking, so it’s super cute. She is like teetering, but she’s walking, like she’s walking a lot. And she has really just started saying yes and no. I don’t think she really understands what they mean, but she’s saying them a lot. [laughter] And when she says no, sometimes she’ll say no, but I’d say 96% of the time, she says, “Mo.” [laughter] So almost… She’s just like, “Mo, mo.” [laughter]


0:19:27.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. That’s hilarious.


0:19:29.0 Jordan Syatt: But she doesn’t really get it because if I say, “Do you want to eat?” Like this, she’ll be like, “Mo.” But if I say, “Do you want to eat?” She’ll be like, “Yeah, yeah.” [laughter] So she’s just purely responding to the energy that I have not what I’m actually saying.


0:19:45.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, the words. Yeah, yeah. [laughter] She’s learning.


0:19:50.2 Jordan Syatt: So yeah.


0:19:50.9 Mike Vacanti: Your mom was there not too long ago.


0:19:53.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, for her birthday. So she was here in August. And she hasn’t been to the house that we’re in yet. So she’ll be here. We got a guest room she can stay in and…


0:20:05.2 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:20:05.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s what we got going on.


0:20:08.8 Mike Vacanti: That’ll be really fun. Even though Hanukkah, most people are uneducated and think that Hanukkah is the pinnacle Jewish holiday, just because it’s close to Christmas. But really, Hanukkah is like fifth on the list, approximately.


0:20:25.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, Hanukkah, I’m not gonna say it’s not an important holiday. It is a very important holiday. But in terms of importance in Judaism, it is not at the top at all. It’s like a hallmark holiday now, unfortunately.


0:20:39.8 Mike Vacanti: You want me to take a stab…


0:20:41.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think even a lot of Jewish people really know what it’s about. Stab about what?


0:20:44.2 Mike Vacanti: Ranking Jewish holidays?


0:20:47.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, sure.


0:20:49.3 Mike Vacanti: In order of importance.


0:20:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Like top… I’d say number one is… Wait, do you wanna do it or do you want me to do it?


0:20:53.6 Mike Vacanti: Obviously, you can do it. That’s not a fun game.


0:20:58.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay, yeah, you do it. All right, go for it. Go for it.




0:21:01.4 Mike Vacanti: Where’s the fun in that? It’s like, I assume you know. No, we don’t have to do that.


0:21:07.1 Jordan Syatt: No. Do it, do it, do it. Do it. Top three, top three. I think you know this. I think we spoke about it recently.


0:21:12.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think I have Hanukkah in my top three.


0:21:15.5 Jordan Syatt: No, Hanukkah is not in top three.


0:21:17.3 Mike Vacanti: I know. I think… So I’m going to go top five. I’m going to say at number one, so number one and number two for me as an outsider are slightly interchangeable…


0:21:29.3 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] “For me.”


0:21:32.0 Mike Vacanti: Because they’re very different. On the one hand, you have a celebratory holiday…


0:21:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, you’re right. You know this.


0:21:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, like happy, exciting. And on the other hand, in a similar time of year, you have Yom Kippur, which is the High Holy Day, a day of atonement. It’s a more somber day. Isn’t as celebrated, but is very important. I’m not going to slot those two just yet, but I have those at one and two in some order. I’m going to go…


0:22:10.1 Jordan Syatt: Yep. That’s right.


0:22:10.7 Mike Vacanti: Passover is definitely in the three to four range for me.


0:22:16.0 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yep. “For me.” [laughter] I love that.


0:22:26.8 Mike Vacanti: Number… What was the holiday on October 7th?


0:22:29.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, oh, oh, that wasn’t a holiday. That was the anniversary of the war. That was an anniversary of a war.


0:22:38.1 Mike Vacanti: Oh, okay.


0:22:38.2 Jordan Syatt: Was that a holiday? I think you’re right, actually.


0:22:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Because I thought that was part of the appeal for the attack, was that it was…


0:22:47.5 Jordan Syatt: Wait, that wasn’t Sukkot, was it?


0:22:50.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:22:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah, I think it was. I think that was the last day of Sukkot.


0:22:55.2 Mike Vacanti: Okay, I’m going Yom Kippur, one, Rosh Hashanah, two, Passover, three. How do you… Sukkot?


0:23:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, wow. Oh, oh, wait, it was the last day of Sukkot and then it was Simchat Torah. Got it. Yep.


0:23:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Sukkot, four, Hanukkah, five. Because it’s been commercialized.


0:23:19.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I think you’re right. I think that was a perfect representation of the top five.


0:23:24.9 Mike Vacanti: What can I say?


0:23:26.4 Jordan Syatt: That was super well done, man. In your descriptions of them… Did you say Yom Kippur was one?


0:23:34.2 Mike Vacanti: I put it at one just because in this day and age, I think that repentance and atonement are highly important.


0:23:43.8 Jordan Syatt: You’re right. I think it is number one.


0:23:43.9 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:23:44.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, love that.


0:23:47.6 Mike Vacanti: I got a weird theory. Have I told you about this? The interest graph versus the friend graph on social media?


0:23:57.8 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:24:00.5 Mike Vacanti: I think that it is going to have deleterious long-term effects on humans’ ability to maintain relationships in person if we continue to use technology at the rate that we are right now.


0:24:19.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:24:21.3 Mike Vacanti: Here’s where I’m going with this. There used to be a small supply of information in the world. Like, think three news channels, think three radio channels. Basically, what you were consuming was the same thing that your family, your neighbors, your community, that everyone else was consuming the same thing, and you built narrative around that finite piece or those finite pieces of information that you were all consuming. Whereas the increase in the total supply of content has led to this fragmentation where everyone is consuming… I mean, there’s still overlap. Like you and I both get Ryan Long shorts on Instagram or YouTube, and we both laugh about him and we talk about him. But there’s less overlap than there used to be. I think as more and more people make content because it’s profitable, we’re going to have less overlap in what we’re all consuming, which is going to slightly erode relatability amongst people in your life. And I thought of this because I got to this hotel on Saturday, checked in Saturday night, literally just organized… Put my stuff down, turned the TV on, which I never turn cable TV on at home and just see what’s on TV.


0:25:50.8 Mike Vacanti: Never. It’s just like, I don’t know, a habit in a hotel room, so I do that. And the Alabama football game is on. I don’t even watch college football, but there’s 40 seconds left. They’re down by four points and it’s fourth and goal from the 32-yard line, so basically, game’s over. They throw a Hail Mary, catch it in the end zone, game-winning touchdown, completely insane. And I have a client, shoutout Aaron, who I know listens, who I texted. I was like, wow, insane. And then another buddy of mine who I grew up with, who’s a huge Alabama fan, who I haven’t talked to very much over the last couple of months. And I texted him too, I was like, unbelievable. Just thinking about 50 channels and everyone consuming the same thing, and obviously all of human relationship and connection isn’t around the information we consume. We relate on other things. It’s just one thing we relate on. But the fact that we’ve moved from this finite stream of content that most people are… There’s like a lot of overlap to everyone has their individual algorithm, to who… Like AI, even more content being created, like having hyper-personalized algorithms being served up where you have almost no overlap with other people, I think is going to have a negative effect on people’s ability to relate to each other.


0:27:12.5 Jordan Syatt: How do you see this playing out in terms of human connection? Like practically, you think people just are going to be very disconnected, and their own social media, their own AI world will just be so different than everyone else’s world, so they’re all living in worlds that are like separate universes almost?


0:27:33.8 Mike Vacanti: You could say that. I don’t know what the final outcome is and I’m not doomsday-ing it. I just think that there’s…


0:27:40.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I understand. I didn’t mean to doomsday it.


0:27:43.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know what the final… I don’t know what the outcome is. I just sense that that’s the direction it’s heading in. Even with my high school friends who I stay in contact with, there’s a more finite number of subjects, like family, kids, Vikings. There are fewer, “How are you doing? How’s your job?” Those things are always there. Telling old stories from the past, which is one of the best parts about long friendships for dudes, especially, and laughing and reminiscing. But just relatability around what you’re consuming, I think, is decreasing.


0:28:29.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes sense. I think we can already see that. I mean, I’m seeing it practically from a very two-sided perspective in terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict right now, where it’s like people are seeing completely different things. And I’ve had to go out of my way to find accounts that are giving opposing views. And it’s crazy because when I go out of my way to find those and then give those views, I see things that I’m like, oh, that’s why they’re saying that, ’cause I never have seen that side of it, because my feed isn’t showing it to me. And I think that’s just looking at a very two-sided perspective. But then what you’re saying, it takes it even 10 steps further in which now it’s not even going to be really sides, it’s going to be individuals. Like literally, each individual will have very much their own stream, their own base… ’cause there are so many more creators and it’s so much more individualized and targeted toward that person. Yeah, that makes total sense.


0:29:34.2 Mike Vacanti: I’ve heard about this with the future of AI generated music as well, where each individual has slightly different micro preferences where an AI can make the perfect… I don’t know anything about music. I’m basically tone deaf too, but like the perfect tune melody, like sound that is most enjoyable for you, even if it’s slightly different than what’s enjoyable for your friend, your colleague. Like, everyone has…


0:30:03.2 Jordan Syatt: I don’t like that at all.


0:30:05.7 Mike Vacanti: [chuckle] Why not?


0:30:06.7 Jordan Syatt: That is the first thing I’ve heard that has really made me worried about artists, like music artists. If AI can change the art for the individual, now it’s no longer coming from the artist. Now, it’s for the listener, which that completely changes the game of art. Art isn’t for the person listening or the person viewing it, it’s for the person making it. And so if AI changes it, that’s… That’s the first thing I’ve heard that has really made me be like, ooh, I don’t like that at all.


0:30:49.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m no expert on this, but supposedly, that same path is already happening with video games. And I’m… Like, Nintendo 64 was the last game system that I played…


0:31:00.1 Jordan Syatt: The greatest of all time.


0:31:03.1 Mike Vacanti: But supposedly, there’s like hyper-individualized games to suit your enjoyment. So it’s not like we’re both playing Mario Kart. I’m playing a game that is AI towards my liking, and you’re playing a slightly different game that’s created towards your liking. And I don’t know that we’re actually there right now, but if we’re moving in that direction and it continues, it’s just more siloing, which I guess the takeaway is, if this does happen, the importance of in-person strong community and human interaction just increases for individual well-being and for flourishing of societies.


0:31:48.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ve heard… I don’t know if this is true or not, but I’ve heard whispers of the younger generation, like teenager level, of resisting technology and getting flip phones and not wanting smartphones, which makes me so happy that they’re like…


0:32:05.9 Mike Vacanti: Good.


0:32:06.0 Jordan Syatt: “Screw this.” I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve heard whispers of it and it is sort of hard to believe because I couldn’t imagine being a teenager and not wanting to use all the technology. I would imagine that’d be very… Like, it’s very difficult. But if that’s true… And it also makes sense just historically, generations will resist whatever the older ones are doing. So if that’s accurate, that just makes me incredibly happy.


0:32:32.6 Mike Vacanti: If that’s true, I would love that. The incentives for individual flourishing seem to be there. Like, one to two hours a day on your phone and lots of time outside is going to be superior for you compared to 12 hours a day on your phone. But the financial incentives around creator economy, like so much attention from the end consumer being on social media, leading to incentives for someone looking for a job to be like more in the space of something on the Internet, I mean, supposedly the… Like I’m seeing graphs of percent of… Or like dollars spent as a percentage on social media compared to other forms of shopping, and it’s not increasing a little bit. It’s increasing a lot from 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023. I don’t remember the numbers off the top of my head, but the amount of stuff being purchased on TikTok through these ads that are getting so good just seems like more incentive to be on the phone and on social.


0:33:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, my wife will buy stuff off of Instagram. I’m like, “what the hell? What the hell is that?” [laughter]


0:33:58.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t… [laughter] “I’m like, what the hell? What the hell is that?” I hate being sold to so much that I won’t even look at an ad on… Like, I try and flip past it as quickly as I can. I’ll cover my ears. I’ll do whatever. I’m like, I’m not letting you influence me like that and definitely not take my money from my pocket.


0:34:21.0 Jordan Syatt: No, absolutely not. I’ll go on Google and search something, and then I’ll just click the ad just to…


0:34:31.2 Mike Vacanti: Cost them money.


0:34:32.1 Jordan Syatt: Make you pay for that click.




0:34:38.8 Mike Vacanti: I’ll only do that on companies I don’t like. I try not to do that with businesses that I like.


0:34:47.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m not doing that to businesses I support, but like for annoying ones or whatever, like click, click, click. Yeah.


0:34:53.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] It’s like, “why are you trying to buy that keyword from your competitor? No, I’m going to make you pay for this.” Classic.




0:35:02.8 Jordan Syatt: Bro, you’ll never guess what I bought last night when I was in my gym, when I was working out in my garage and I had a… Maybe we could play this game.


0:35:12.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m going to guess it.


0:35:14.3 Jordan Syatt: I’ll give you a hint.


0:35:15.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t want a hint. All right. You were in your garage.


0:35:17.2 Jordan Syatt: I was in my garage. The hint was going to be what muscle group I was working.


0:35:20.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, okay. All right. You can say that.


0:35:22.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay. I was trying to… I was doing ab work and I wanted to… I was looking for a new way to hit my abs that… Mainly out of boredom, I was like, ah, I just want a different way to hit my abs, something that’s challenging. And I was like, oh, my God…


0:35:45.3 Mike Vacanti: You bought straps for hanging knee raises.


0:35:48.5 Jordan Syatt: No, I already have those. It’s a great guess, though. You know I… I told you I had those yesterday. I told you that I had straps for hanging knee raise.


0:35:54.8 Mike Vacanti: I thought you said you ordered them.


0:36:00.9 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, I have those, and I used those last night. I’m sore from it.


0:36:01.6 Mike Vacanti: An ab wheel.


0:36:01.7 Jordan Syatt: No, it is a great piece of equipment though.


0:36:06.9 Mike Vacanti: You’re thinking of new ways to hit your abs. You bought something. Was the thing you bought a piece of equipment for your home gym?


0:36:14.0 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:36:15.8 Mike Vacanti: Was it under $100?


0:36:17.0 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:36:19.6 Mike Vacanti: Hmm. Jordan thinking of ways to hit his abs differently.


0:36:25.2 Jordan Syatt: You would also love using this. I don’t want to give you too many…


0:36:29.1 Mike Vacanti: Man, I’m having intense deja vu right now. I know this isn’t the answer now. Because of my deja vu, I know that I’ve asked you this before in a parallel universe, and I know that you say the answer is no, but I’m still going to guess. Sliders?


0:36:44.6 Jordan Syatt: No, I have sliders.


0:36:46.3 Mike Vacanti: Looking for a different way to hit your abs, under $100. There’s no way you’d be like, “I bought a medicine ball.”


0:36:53.9 Jordan Syatt: No. [laughter] You’d be so mad, but, “I got a med ball.” [laughter]


0:37:00.8 Mike Vacanti: “I got this sweet twenty-pound medicine ball.”


0:37:07.5 Jordan Syatt: “Rotational throws at the wall.”


0:37:09.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. No, I’m going to get there. I’m going to get there.


0:37:10.7 Jordan Syatt: Which are great exercises, by the way. That’s just not the joke.


0:37:14.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you’re not ripping that move.


0:37:15.9 Jordan Syatt: You can’t Google search different ab tools.


0:37:19.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m not Googling. I’m going to my form database. No, no, not tools. I’m just looking at exercises, just to jog my memory.


0:37:26.9 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s definitely not in your database, I promise.


0:37:28.8 Mike Vacanti: Did you buy off Craigslist, a $98 weighted crunch machine?


0:37:33.7 Jordan Syatt: No, but I actually almost did. I really wanted to buy one of those.


0:37:42.9 Mike Vacanti: Man, these are… I have so many body weight moves in here. A different way to hit your abs… All right, tell me the…


0:37:49.8 Jordan Syatt: The movement pattern?


0:37:51.5 Mike Vacanti: On the exercise, how are you… Like, is there lumbar flexion? Is it isometric? Is there rotation?


0:38:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Lumbar flexion, lumbar flexion.


0:38:03.1 Mike Vacanti: And is it more of an upper ab or a lower ab move?


0:38:07.6 Jordan Syatt: I mean, this is full ab, but probably if I had to guess or if I had to say, more upper. But it’s all the abs.


0:38:15.0 Mike Vacanti: Is it some kind of mechanism to hold your feet in place so that you can crunch?


0:38:19.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:38:22.1 Mike Vacanti: Really?


0:38:24.2 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:38:25.6 Mike Vacanti: Oh, oh. Are you hanging upside down from this thing?


0:38:28.5 Jordan Syatt: Yes, dude. Yes. Yes. Oh, man.


0:38:34.5 Mike Vacanti: I agree. That’s more upper than lower.


0:38:35.3 Jordan Syatt: I thought when you first said straps for hanging leg raises, I thought that you were gonna get it on the first one. Oh, man.


0:38:42.8 Mike Vacanti: What is the mechanism and how is it different than those straps?


0:38:47.8 Jordan Syatt: So it’s like a boot. You put it on each of your ankles, and then it has a hook.


0:38:53.0 Mike Vacanti: This was under $100?


0:38:55.5 Jordan Syatt: This was like 37 bucks.


0:39:00.5 Mike Vacanti: Dude, you do not want to cheap out on boots that hold you upside down, where you can smash your skull. Trust me. Woodway…


0:39:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s got over like 2000 reviews.


0:39:08.3 Mike Vacanti: No, Woodway makes boots. Call them. They’re nine grand…


0:39:12.8 Jordan Syatt: They definitely don’t have boots.


0:39:14.4 Mike Vacanti: But you’ll never shatter your skull.


0:39:15.4 Jordan Syatt: You don’t want to cheap out on that. [laughter]


0:39:17.2 Mike Vacanti: Boots are…


0:39:18.5 Jordan Syatt: I was actually thinking that I feel like you would love this ’cause it’s gonna feel great on the back. Get some really good spinal decompression with this hanging upside down. I feel like you would love these.


0:39:31.4 Mike Vacanti: Wow. Sweet. Good addition. And your gym equipment is coming today, any minute, really, which is very exciting.


0:39:39.2 Jordan Syatt: In fact, I got a phone call like 20 minutes ago, but I ignored it ’cause you were in the middle of the Woodway story and that was a funny one. I didn’t want to interrupt you in… So they might have already tried to deliver it.


0:39:49.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, 20 minutes ago wasn’t in the window, so if another phone call comes on…


0:39:54.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s true.


0:39:55.6 Mike Vacanti: We’ll answer it and put it on speaker. It could have just been a spam call. It was probably a spam call. I get a lot of those.


0:40:01.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it was a +1, so it was probably a spam call.


0:40:03.0 Mike Vacanti: We have a question that I forgot to do last week. Where is this? This is from my client Jackie, who is amazing. And dude, her home gym rivals your home gym. She has reverse hyper, she has a belt squat machine…


0:40:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Shut up. She’s got a reverse hyper? Oh my God…


0:40:34.1 Mike Vacanti: Mm-Hmm.


0:40:34.9 Jordan Syatt: And a belt squat? Are you kidding me? It’s better than my gym. There’s no rivalry there. Her home gym is better than my gym immediately.


0:40:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, she’s been building her home gym for longer than yours, so we’ll give your home gym a chance, but…


0:40:47.1 Jordan Syatt: No, I have no chance. Hers is already better. Those are… Like when we move into the new house and have a bigger gym, those are the first two things I’m getting.


0:40:55.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, they’re two stellar pieces of equipment.


0:40:56.4 Jordan Syatt: A reverse hyper and a belt squat. That is so sick.


0:41:00.6 Mike Vacanti: I know. She said, “I really love listening to your podcast. If you’d consider talking about this situation more, I.e. Client stress and how it relates to their workouts, I would love to hear your and Jordan’s thoughts on it. Thanks and have an awesome weekend.” And I’m not gonna divulge too much, but basically there were some temporary familial issues that were causing some stress, and also, I wanna say a close friend, she said, who had cancer and was in hospice borderline, if I remember right, kind of towards the end and not looking good. And just that this is a woman who’s very consistent, dominates workouts, like really solid on nutrition, but these temporary things happening in her life were causing an extreme amount of stress. And she’s just wondering about how we might differ in, whether it’s programming or anything from the psychological side of things, when a client is going through something like that.


0:42:20.0 Jordan Syatt: Well, first, sending all of our love and prayers, and I hope everything is okay. If your friend has passed, I am so sorry for your loss. I’ll say I think one of the things that before I started coaching people, and I started coaching when I was really young, when I was like 14, 15, 16, is I just assumed how I handled things was how everyone handled things. And as I started coaching people and working with people and learning the psychology and learning behavior, you very quickly understand that that’s not the case. People handle different things differently. And there isn’t a right way or a wrong way, it’s just people have different ways of dealing with things. And your job as a coach is not necessarily to force them to do something, but just to help them through it in whatever capacity you can.


0:43:09.1 Jordan Syatt: And I would say that for me, and I’ve lost unfortunately a number of close friends over the years, whenever that happens, whenever I’ve lost a close friend for whatever reason, something just flips and I go to the gym. That’s just my reaction. That’s where I get my anger out, that’s where I get my stress out, that’s where I can just spend some time to be alone and just like… I don’t even know the right word, ’cause think isn’t the right word, but it’s where I can just almost zone out and just do whatever I need to do. So that’s historically what I’ve done. I remember my friend Max died when I was 18… I was 18 or 19, and literally the first thing I did was just, I went to Gold’s Gym and started deadlifting.


0:44:00.8 Jordan Syatt: My friend Nick recently passed away, like, first thing I did. My friend Chris… Throughout my life, that’s literally what I’ve done every single time. But I’ve had many clients who, when they lose people, that’s the last thing in the world they want to do. They have no desire to do that whatsoever. And I don’t think that’s wrong. I think especially in the immediate wake of losing somebody, sometimes you just need to just listen to whatever your body is saying and just do that. If that’s just stay at home and relax and watch TV or call friends or read books or whatever it is, I would say do that. Give yourself some time and grace. What I’ve always found for the clients of mine who have struggled is, I do recommend, even if it’s not working out, like a legitimate strength workout or high intensity cardio workout, is spending some time outside.


0:45:01.3 Jordan Syatt: It doesn’t even necessarily mean having to get steps if they don’t want to, but trying to… If they can go on a walk outside, amazing. If they can just spend time outside, amazing. Just getting outside, getting fresh air is, I think, one of the best things you can do, which I found sometimes just getting up when you’re feeling very depressed and sad is very difficult. Getting out of bed, getting out of your house is very difficult. So, making the goal just to get outside, breathe in some fresh air. And usually, as soon as you breathe that fresh air in, it fills your lungs, it’s like, “All right, cool, I wanna get some… I want to move.” So that would be the goal, is just get outside. ‘Cause sometimes, even when you’re working out inside your beautiful gym, it’s like you do not want to go outside, or maybe you even feel trapped inside that gym.


0:45:50.6 Jordan Syatt: So getting out, getting some sunlight, getting some fresh air. And I would say, focus on that. And I’ve had clients where sometimes it takes them one, two, three or four weeks where they’re like, “I’m not feeling it.” And then it takes them a minute. So even after everything that happened, and it’s still happening in Israel and Gaza right now, but for probably the first… Probably the first three weeks of that happening, I had a lot of anger and I was just taking it out in my runs and in my… I didn’t really strength train. I didn’t want to be in my gym very much. I did a little bit, but most of my fitness was just running outside for like a couple hours, ’cause that’s what I needed to do. So if you can get outside and move, I think it’s one of the best things you can do.


0:46:34.2 Mike Vacanti: Great advice. I completely agree. Everyone handles… And you went very specific on tragedy and losing loved ones. I’m gonna back off a little and go more general stress with clients, just applying to more stressful situations. Communicating to your client that whatever modifications they need to make, they can make. And so in this instance, we dropped training frequency because she felt like she might not wanna be working out as much with everything going on. That can mean dropping training frequency, that can mean lowering volume, that can mean having short modified workouts to get something in to keep momentum going and to feel good. That can mean time off of training, if that’s what’s needed. On the nutrition side, if someone’s trying to add muscle and it’s really hard for them to get all those calories in, don’t worry about that right now. If someone’s in a deficit and they’ve been making a lot of fat loss progress, but right now they’re eating more and they’re stressed about losing progress, don’t worry about that right now.


0:47:53.3 Mike Vacanti: Like, maintenance calories/not tracking for these few days or weeks, whatever it is, like communicating that this is a temporary short period of time and fitness isn’t the most important thing, or rather, your fitness progress isn’t the most important thing. What’s more important is using fitness to help you get through this difficult time and through this stressful time. I now wanna differentiate between what you and I have just been talking about here, which is specific finite stress compared to chronic… Like, “I’m always overworked, I’m always overwhelmed, I always feel stressed” feeling or behavior as a result of… Because putting fitness on the back burner or using it as a tool or setting fitness progress aside to get through a difficult period of time absolutely makes sense. But if there’s no specific stressor, if you have a client who’s in a situation where they’re just always stressed out, then something needs to change with their lifestyle or within their life to get them into a place where they can make progress.


0:49:13.8 Mike Vacanti: If it’s been months, they haven’t made any progress and they’re stressed because work and kids and general life stressors, that’s where you have to take a deep dive on, okay, how are we coping with this stress? What does sleep look like? What does drug and alcohol use look like? What does… Like, any potential vices, any areas where you can clean up or cut something out that is going to open up energy and capacity to focus on fitness. Because if you’re just chronically stressed about life, then putting fitness on the back burner doesn’t make sense because then you’re never gonna make the progress you wanna make. I think the difference between those two situations is interesting. And I actually… From a coach’s perspective, the individual going through a specific short-term or at least limited term stressor is easier than the person who’s just “always stressed.”


0:50:24.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I completely agree. I remember even reading one of Lyle McDonald’s articles probably in 2010 or 2011. He had a great article talking about… It was a case study of a client who was swearing up and down she was meticulously tracking her calories. And he was like, and she was. She was meticulously tracking them. She was doing a ton of cardio, but she wasn’t losing weight. Do you remember this article? Remember what I’m talking about?


0:50:54.7 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.


0:50:55.6 Jordan Syatt: And she was doing everything, but she wasn’t losing, she wasn’t losing, she wasn’t losing. And he was talking about how she was so meticulous with everything that she was stressing herself out to such a high level that she was actually holding on to water weight. It wasn’t fat. She was still losing fat, but it wasn’t showing on the scale. And it wasn’t until she actually eased up on things and relaxed a little bit that then she had a huge whoosh and she ended up losing weight. But chronic stress can really make it appear as though things aren’t working and make it so much more difficult, which then it’s a never ending cycle because the more it doesn’t work, the more stressed you get about it, and the more stressed you get about it, the more it doesn’t seem to be working.


0:51:42.1 Jordan Syatt: Sometimes, you just need to fucking breathe and relax. And again, this is the difference between like a… There’s a big difference between losing a loved one versus you’re just stressed about shit and like you’re stressed because you wanna lose 4 more pounds. Like, you need to relax. There are different levels of stress and you have to really take a close look and say, “Is it okay to be stressed about this right now?” If it’s a loved one dying, yes, you better believe it’s okay to be stressed about that. If you’re stressed because you wanna lose 4 more pounds, and you’re really stressed about that, you need to fucking relax. It’s not something to really be worried about.


0:52:14.1 Mike Vacanti: Yep. That’s absolutely right. And I remember that article. That’s the… Remember a few episodes ago, we differentiated between the male and the female CEO, and talked about the Type A female CEO prototype or archetype? That’s generally the type of person who will carry those levels of stress around scale weight, and that can happen.


0:52:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, makes total sense.


0:52:45.0 Mike Vacanti: Sweet, brother. Great episode. You got your equipment on the way.


0:52:50.4 Jordan Syatt: Let’s go, baby.


0:52:51.1 Mike Vacanti: Call that number back and just make sure that those weren’t the delivery guys.


0:52:54.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ll call them back. I’ll give them a call. I’ll give them a call. Thanks for listening. Every Tuesday, we don’t miss a Tuesday no matter what. There are no Tuesdays that are missed.


0:53:02.3 Mike Vacanti: Knock on wood.


0:53:03.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s not like that 2019, 2020 era where we were sort of here and there. Now we’re always here, never there. [chuckle] And if you like the podcast, please leave a five star review. Nothing lower than five stars, please. If you don’t like the podcast, just don’t leave a review. If you do like the podcast, please leave a five star review. We love you. Thank you so much. We will see you next week on Tuesday, ’cause we never miss a Tuesday.


0:53:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Bye everyone.

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