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In this episode, we continue this multi-part series in which we outline the most important steps you need to take in order to grow your online fitness business in 2024 (and beyond).


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.5 Michael Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.7 Jordan Syatt: What’s up Michael?


0:00:14.3 Michael Vacanti: We’re here, we’re live.


0:00:14.3 Jordan Syatt: You might hear my daughter screaming in the background. I think it was this morning, she discovered that she can just shriek really loud and for no reason. So she just walking around like doing like the little toddler wobble and just out of nowhere she’ll just be like…


0:00:33.1 Michael Vacanti: She found her vocal chords. She’s gonna be a singer.


0:00:35.5 Jordan Syatt: With a big smile on her face, she’s like…


0:00:39.2 Michael Vacanti: That’s fun. Yeah, I heard her doing it before. Sounds cute.


0:00:45.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up with you brother?


0:00:46.8 Michael Vacanti: Dude, I was just thinking about the time that I went to the dermatologist because you recommended I go to a dermatologist ’cause I’d never been to one for my entire life.


0:00:52.6 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t recommend this dermatologist. I just recommended you go to one. I didn’t recommend this one though.


0:00:58.6 Michael Vacanti: Correct. Good clarification. And I sat there in this gown for like a half hour, just waiting, just sitting there freezing, just waiting in this cold room. And then she came in for like 90 seconds and was like…


0:01:15.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s it?


0:01:16.5 Michael Vacanti: Dude, it was like this. She got a little like spotlight, she’s like, no, you’re good. You’re good. You’re good. Here for any particular reason? I’m like, honestly, my friend Jordan said I need to start doing this so that I don’t get skin cancer. She’s like, but do you have any like trouble spots you’re worried about? No, just here, preventative, just trying to do the right thing. And then she scolded me about how I’m supposed to buy the hat that has the long thing that covers my neck and how I’m supposed to wear sleeves in the summer and nothing should, my hands can see the sun, but nothing else should ever see the sunlight. And now, here I am in December in Minnesota and just craving vitamin D and serotonin and just getting re-energized by the sun. And just thinking back to that advice that I should basically never be in sun.


0:02:02.6 Jordan Syatt: I don’t like that. I don’t like that derm. You gotta go to different derm. I’ve had way better derms than that.


0:02:08.7 Michael Vacanti: That’s good. But I’ve sworn off the industry.


0:02:11.2 Jordan Syatt: Don’t swear them off.


0:02:13.4 Michael Vacanti: I swore them off. Obviously, if I see something weird, I’m gonna go get it checked out, but I’m not just going to get scolded about getting rejuvenated by the sun.


0:02:24.5 Jordan Syatt: And you’re a big sunscreen guy though.


0:02:27.4 Michael Vacanti: Well yeah, burning is really bad for you. So if you build up a base, it depends what you can tolerate. But if you haven’t been in the sun for a while and then you go to UV 9, like be smart.


0:02:37.9 Jordan Syatt: Good luck.


0:02:38.9 Michael Vacanti: Be cautious. Good luck. I’m gonna make that a real staple for 2024. When the fall rolls around, I’m gonna make sure to schedule like an October, a November and a December week in some decent UV.


0:02:57.9 Jordan Syatt: I was gonna ask, are you gonna go to Florida soon?


0:03:01.1 Michael Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. I’m going in January, going with Gary in January and then going with my family again in January.


0:03:08.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh nice. Like early January. Gary, later January with your family?


0:03:10.0 Michael Vacanti: Mm-hmm.


0:03:12.3 Jordan Syatt: That’ll be nice. That’s awesome. Same place or no? Is Gary in Miami?


0:03:18.4 Michael Vacanti: Different places. Different places.


0:03:20.5 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Cool. Keep it ambiguous.


0:03:23.2 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. We don’t need to be. We don’t need to be. This is the internet. You never know what’s going on out there. I like to keep a low profile.


0:03:31.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s the truth.


0:03:31.8 Michael Vacanti: You taught me that. You taught me how to be…


0:03:31.9 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t teach you that, you taught me that. Always assume.


0:03:36.2 Michael Vacanti: You taught me to be cautious and maybe even slightly paranoid about life.


0:03:42.0 Jordan Syatt: I did teach you that.




0:03:51.3 Michael Vacanti: Oh, I always assume.


0:03:53.2 Jordan Syatt: Bro, my abs are sore.


0:03:57.1 Michael Vacanti: Jordan invented an exercise.


0:03:57.3 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:03:57.8 Michael Vacanti: He did.


0:04:00.5 Jordan Syatt: Which exercise?


0:04:02.9 Michael Vacanti: Hooking your feet on the cables.


0:04:03.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you mean the hanging leg raise on the cable machine? Yeah, that was sick. The exercise was just the way to load it. I was just like, man, this is just genius. The loading structure on that. But I’ve been doing a lot of ab work lately, and I’m a big fan. And a lot of like lateral flexion rotation work. But man…


0:04:23.8 Michael Vacanti: Because you want your abs stronger or your core in general stronger?


0:04:29.8 Jordan Syatt: Just stronger.


0:04:32.2 Michael Vacanti: Spinal health? Like, what are you feeling from it?


0:04:34.6 Jordan Syatt: More, I just want stronger ab but here’s something. So I’m a big mobility guy now. I’m a big mobility guy, right?


0:04:40.4 Michael Vacanti: Yeah.


0:04:42.2 Jordan Syatt: Everyone in the mentorship is laughing ’cause just the Q&A that we just finished, I was talking about how I’m really getting into mobility work, but like I’ve always been into mobility, but never pushing it to the extremes outside of when I went for my splits a couple years ago and then I hurt my knee. I’ve taken the last couple years off, focused more on zone two. Now I’m really getting into more of like the science of flexibility and mobility and even those terms are conflated. But anyway, I’m getting a lot more into it. And I’ve really been working a lot on my hamstring mobility ’cause I want the splits not just the side splits, but also the front splits. And the front splits have much more of an impact. Your hamstring flexibility has much more an impact on your front splits than side splits. And one thing I’m working on is my pike.


0:05:35.1 Jordan Syatt: And I’ve actually been working with this guy. He’s awesome, from Range of Strength. I forget his name. Let me just Google this or look it up on Instagram. So, oh, Lucas Hardie, Lucas Hardie, Range of Strength. He’s a beast, really like this guy a lot. And he is working with me on my pikes. And the pike is essentially, think about like the way… The one thing that we’ve been working on is not just touching your toes with your legs straight, but like getting your full palms to floor, legs fully locked out and straight, which I’ve never been able to do except when I was like maybe like six years old and you’re just gumby at that age. And so there’s my daughter screaming in the background. I kept struggling to get my palms to the floor and Lucas was talking to me about compression strength and essentially how in this pike getting really good at being able to compress yourself down, not just with the flexibility of your hamstrings, but with the strength of your abs.


0:06:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Essentially like pancaking yourself down to the floor, not just thinking of it as how much can you passively move downward, but how much can you compress yourself downwards at the same time? And so he’s had me doing a couple different compression strength drills for my abs that I’ve then carried over into that full palm to floor touch. And it immediately improved, like immediately, full palms to floor, legs completely like ostrich locked out legs, completely straight. For the first time in my life, and it feels actually like, relatively comfortable. And I was talking to him, I was like, man, number one, just always learning, always trying to learn and get better and improve. But it’s just so interesting how, obviously I’ve known core strength is important from many different things, but how much it can carry over to mobility and in areas that seemingly it’s not playing a role, it actually is playing a huge role. Like really, really incredible. So I’m having fun with it, but yeah, my abs are fucking sore ’cause I’m training them a lot right now. And I’m just doing them like in between sessions. So I do my workout in the morning, at like seven in the morning, and then I’ll do work throughout the middle of the day. And then after this podcast, I’ll have one more podcast. Then after that, I’ll just do like a 20 or 30-minute workout, strength workout just for abs and I’ll just add that in and I’m liking it a lot.


0:08:11.6 Michael Vacanti: That’s awesome. I’m glad you’re enjoying it and feeling good. Is any percentage of the flexibility related to jiu-jitsu?


0:08:21.2 Jordan Syatt: You know, it’s funny, early on when I wanted the splits like couple years ago, yes. But as I’ve gotten better at jiu-jitsu, I’ve realized that there are ways to get in the positions that you want without needing that flexibility. So it’s like two years ago, I wanted the flexibility for jiu-jitsu because I thought that extra flexibility would inherently help me. And I think it would’ve helped a little bit. But now, as I’ve gotten better at jiu-jitsu, I’ve realized I can actually be pretty lazy with it. And I don’t need this insane level of flexibility and I can still get in the positions that I want. Now, I want them because, dude, I just want the splits so bad. Like, I just want the split. I want them super fucking bad. I want the side splits and the front splits and the pancake just because it’s just badass. So that’s where it’s coming from.


0:09:13.4 Michael Vacanti: Man. The meaning in life is really derived from the pursuit of goals.


0:09:20.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s the truth, huh? That’s the truth.


0:09:24.4 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. It really is. It’s good.


0:09:26.8 Jordan Syatt: The mission.


0:09:26.9 Michael Vacanti: The mission. Mission over everything. We knew it. I had a real moment playing chess the other day when I… For the first time ever, they have bots essentially. So in chess, there’s ratings and then has these bots that are like a 700 rated bot, 1000 rated bot an 1100 bot. And the higher your rating, the… Anyway, for the first time ever, I beat the 2000 elo…


0:10:01.3 Jordan Syatt: Wow.


0:10:01.4 Michael Vacanti: I mean, for me, I was pumped, but I felt, as soon as I realized I was gonna win the game, like the second I realized, oh, I’m gonna win this game, I felt worse.


0:10:15.6 Jordan Syatt: Really?


0:10:17.2 Michael Vacanti: And it was one of those like addicted video game player sessions where I’d been going for like, I don’t know, it was like my 11th game in a row trying to beat the same bot and I lost 10 straight, like trying and trying and trying and this pursuit. And then as soon as I realized, I hadn’t even won yet, but I realized, oh, I’m gonna win this game. I felt worse.


0:10:37.0 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. What do you mean? Like worse?


0:10:40.6 Michael Vacanti: I felt, I don’t know if you could rate excitement, meaning, happiness, serotonin, I don’t know, something neurochemically, on a scale of one to 10, if it was at a 9.5 while I was pursuing, I felt it dropped to like a six.


0:10:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Geez. If that’s not a metaphor for life right there, where it’s just like that pursuit of it is really what it’s about.


0:11:06.0 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. Which is why it’s good to have borderline unreachable goals to maximize meaning.


0:11:16.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s your next goal? 2100 bot?


0:11:19.2 Michael Vacanti: Well, that wasn’t even a goal. I just was procrastinating doing work. And yeah, got sucked in like a video game.


0:11:28.5 Jordan Syatt: Man, I’m never gonna beat you in chess ever. There’s just no way. There was that one time where I almost, you remember that where I like almost did?


0:11:39.0 Michael Vacanti: Oh yeah. We were at your apartment, the last apartment you lived at, down on the second floor in like the study room, right?


0:11:49.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. There was that one chance I had. And you just laughed because you’re like, all right, well now I’m gonna chase you around the board.


0:11:57.3 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. I can’t imagine how many listeners are enthralled with chess. But anyway, that is a real, like… University’s a great example of it. You’re going to school for four years or longer and you’re in this pursuit. And then as soon as you reach the pinnacle, like you graduate, it’s like, oh, now what am I doing? Now what am I supposed to be doing? I need to find a job. It’s like… Yeah.


0:12:23.5 Jordan Syatt: As someone with a college degree…


0:12:25.6 Michael Vacanti: Sorry, just to give you one more. Even with making money, like as someone who historically had financial goals, it’s like, once I get X and then you get there and you’re like, oh, this doesn’t feel like anything. And then you reset it and you reset. Yeah, go ahead.


0:12:43.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I was just gonna say, and this is a complete change of subject, I was just gonna say, as someone with a college degree, I’ve never been more sure that a college degree is a complete and utter waste of fucking time and money. Unless you wanna be like a doctor or a lawyer or someone who actually needs the college degree. But I’ve never been more certain that for the vast majority of people, it’s a complete waste of money, especially at these like “elite universities.”


0:13:12.7 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. I tend to have the same position and have for a little while. I remember having a discussion with my dad a while back where part of the benefit, and I realize this was part of the benefit for me, was not what you actually learn. Although there are benefits to what you’re learning, but you benefit from learning how to work hard. Just like sports as a kid, academics is an avenue, especially university when it’s the first time you’re truly independent and have complete autonomy, you don’t have parents pushing you or you have less of a routine, to be able to teach yourself to work hard and improve that skill translates into other areas of life.


0:14:06.8 Jordan Syatt: And I agree with that. I agree with the principle of that, learning how to work hard. I just know from my personal experience and so many of the other experiences that I saw, people didn’t learn how to work hard, they learned how to do just enough to get by. And I don’t know about you, I would imagine that you actually worked super hard and you cared about your grades. Dude, I saw, like for… I’ll give you an example. In those huge lecture classrooms, right? Like chem, bio, whatever it was, we had these huge lecture classrooms with 300 people in it. And in order to take attendance, they had these clickers. You’d bring your clicker in and they would ask stupid questions at the beginning and at the end just to make sure you were there.


0:14:51.5 Jordan Syatt: And there were huge groups of people who would choose one person to go to the class and take everyone’s clicker, and then they would boom, boom, boom, boom. They would just click every single person’s clicker and they would rotate who the person was that had to go to class. It’s like, these were huge groups of people. And and I don’t know, even when I look at study groups, I would look at study groups in coffee shops or in the dorm rooms, whatever it is, no one was fucking studying in these study groups. They were sitting there and they were chatting and dah, dah, dah. But they weren’t actually studying. And so I feel like there’s a small percentage of people who actually, and especially when we’re talking about higher level degrees, maybe like master’s degrees or doctorates, and when people are really starting to get like, I don’t know, master’s or doctors or becoming a lawyer, becoming whatever it is, that’s when I think it really makes sense.


0:15:41.6 Jordan Syatt: But for being a coach or a personal trainer and for many other areas in the world, you’re putting yourself in a huge amount of debt to get knowledge that you could easily, if you have the will to work hard, that you could get for free online and/or you could get it at a fraction of the price at certifications or in books or other things like that without having to sit through these courses that have teachers who have never actually coached anybody or in a number of other fields as well.


0:16:19.5 Michael Vacanti: Yeah, look, I’m with you. If you’re…


0:16:21.7 Jordan Syatt: I’m anti university at this point, I’m hardcore anti.


0:16:29.7 Michael Vacanti: If your goal is… I’m not gonna take this into the direction I want to. If your goal is…


0:16:38.7 Jordan Syatt: You want to take it there?


0:16:41.2 Michael Vacanti: I want to so bad, but I’m not, I’m not. If your goal, look, I never went to a study group because I just saw those as like inefficient hangouts. And there were certain classes where if you’re actually learning in the lecture, you go to lecture. If you’re not learning in lecture, like we didn’t have attendance in our 500 person lectures. Like you were graded based solely on the exams or papers. And the way to perform on that is to read the book and learn the concept. And personally, I learned better by reading than by listening to someone talk for 90 minutes. And so what you described was ways to learn how to work hard. And I like that… Like there’s a… I don’t even know why I’m playing devil’s advocate because I think I largely agree with you and I think for coaches, no, you shouldn’t invest. I mean, if you’re gonna spend the money, go to a school that’s affordable, not like some $50,000 a year tuition. I think that the grading system and fact that you’re competing against other people is a more structured way to learn than self-education. I actually, and it doesn’t mean that self-education is bad, like almost all of my fitness knowledge is self-education, but having structure behind learning something definitely helps.


0:18:15.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And obviously I’m super biased, but…


0:18:21.8 Michael Vacanti: You’re super biased by all the recent events going on in the Ivys.


0:18:27.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. That took it over the top for sure.


0:18:30.6 Michael Vacanti: I know, I know.




0:18:31.0 Jordan Syatt: But even something like, there’s so many amazing courses that you can take online, whether it’s, I don’t know, Precision Nutrition for a nutrition cert. Not even, we could even remove Lyle McDonald’s free content or Alan Aragon’s $10 a month research review, which I think everyone should be a part of. If we’re just talking about courses like Precision Nutrition and stuff, fractions and fractions and fractions of the cost of a university degree. And you get all of the information, I’m going to rephrase that. Not only do you get all the information, you get all of the right information, all of the most up-to-date information without all the horse shit that you have to deal with with a lot of these college professors who have never actually coached anybody or worked with anybody at nutrition or strength training. Like my strength and conditioning professor at my school had no idea what he was talking about, you know what I mean?


0:19:29.8 Michael Vacanti: So you’re saying don’t go to college for personal training. I thought you were saying don’t ever go to college for anything other than doctor or lawyer.


0:19:36.5 Jordan Syatt: That is what I’m saying as well. Also that, but…


0:19:38.3 Michael Vacanti: The social side of it, the four year party, you get out what you put in, there are other benefits beyond the degree.


0:19:45.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Also engineers. Engineers have to go to school. That makes sense. One of my roommates was an engineer and I was like, man, that’s fucking wild. That amount of work was, that was insane. Engineers have it tough, dude. Scientists? Yeah. Go to college. I get it. But if you have to…


0:20:01.4 Michael Vacanti: What about a theologian?


0:20:05.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think they need to go to college. I think they could go somewhere else.


0:20:09.3 Michael Vacanti: On a scale of one to 10, 10 being I hate the idea of college, one being I love the idea of college, where were you a month ago and where are you now?


0:20:18.9 Jordan Syatt: A month ago, I was like four.


0:20:23.8 Michael Vacanti: Okay.


0:20:24.5 Jordan Syatt: Four like I don’t really mind it, I’m whatever. Now I’m at 10. College sucks. You should never…


0:20:29.5 Michael Vacanti: Good, good.


0:20:31.1 Jordan Syatt: Support those fucking…


0:20:34.9 Michael Vacanti: Antisemites, right?


0:20:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:20:35.8 Michael Vacanti: Yeah.


0:20:36.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. And not even just antisemites, just hypocrites. Just hypocrites is what it is.


0:20:43.7 Michael Vacanti: Because, honestly, I’m not up to date on this, so if we can talk about this, but this has to be a little bit of a shorter pod, and we got some great stuff to discuss related to how to build your business in 2024, twenty minutes in. But you’re saying hypocrites because now they’re using free speech as a justification whereas before…


0:21:02.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah. There literally people are, and it’s funny people, basically students were outside legitimately calling for the genocide of Jewish people, straight up calling for the genocide of Jews. Not saying free Palestine, actually saying death to the Jews, gas the Jews, saying things that they might not understand when they say, “One solution: Intifada, revolution.” It’s like, do you know what Intifada, do you know what that is? Intifada is when they were going and bombing school buses and schools and not just synagogues, but churches and mosques, killing innocent people when they’re just straight up calling for the genocide of Jews, trying to hurt Jews on campus.


0:21:48.9 Jordan Syatt: And these three presidents of MIT, Harvard and UPenn went in front of Congress and when asked just the simplest question, does calling for the genocide of Jews constitute harassment and go against your school policy? They said it’s context dependent. Meanwhile, insert Jews, insert any other group in there. LGBTQ, black, is calling for the genocide of LGBTQ harassment and against your student policy? Yes, absolutely. Boom. Done. Is calling for the genocide of blacks against your school policy? Yes. Done. Is calling for the genocide of Jews against your school policy? It’s context dependent. Any other group, they would’ve immediately said, yes, it’s against our policy. And they’ve fired professors, they’ve kicked teachers out for making it an unsafe space before. But for this, well, yeah. So one of them stepped down. Magill from UPenn stepped down.


0:22:42.2 Jordan Syatt: She’s still a tenured professor there, but she stepped down from her role, but only after, it wasn’t immediately after she was, she only stepped down after a donor pulled a $100 million donation from UPenn. That was the only reason she stepped down. And then Harvard is now standing with their president and MIT hasn’t even addressed it. So it’s just, I’m like, “yeah, fuck this.” It’s so hypocritical in the most disgusting way. It’s like, fill that in with any other group of people and they immediately denounce it. But for whatever reason with this they have no problem. So I was like, yeah, you guys suck.


0:23:15.1 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. My arguments around college are independent of the ideological views of college professors, presidents, elites, et cetera.


0:23:27.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. You have a much more balanced perspective of it than I do at this point in time.


0:23:33.3 Michael Vacanti: At this exact point in time. That’s true. But what you’re saying is obviously correct. It is very hypocritical. And I’m surprised only one of the three I guess stepped down. I thought they were fired, but…


0:23:47.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, they were forced to step down, but they were like, she’s still staying on as a tenured professor. And then Harvard put out a statement today being like, we stand with president so-and-so, I don’t even want to say her name. We stand with our president, dah dah dah. She said some things that were wrong, but we’re keeping her. It’s like, okay. Yeah. Harvard sucks.


0:24:08.7 Michael Vacanti: Actually, wow. I selected my dermatologist based on this person’s degree…


0:24:23.0 Jordan Syatt: No way.


0:24:25.3 Michael Vacanti: Being from Harvard.


0:24:27.3 Jordan Syatt: Bro, Harvard sucks.


0:24:28.3 Michael Vacanti: It might’ve been Stanford. But for the purpose of the story, let’s just say it was Harvard, because it puts a nice little bow tie on this 25-minute fun intro.


0:24:34.2 Jordan Syatt: Do you see… Dave Portnoy said he’s no longer hiring anybody from Harvard, UPenn or MIT. Now he might do UPenn because their president stepped down, but he’s not hiring anybody from those institutions until they remove those presidents. He said, if you’re already in my business, then you’re grandfathered in. But I’m not hiring anybody from those schools anymore. Harvard sucks. MIT sucks.


0:24:57.1 Michael Vacanti: And this is a strong sentiment on the internet right now?


0:25:01.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. The only people who are against it don’t understand. Either they’re just straight up anti-Semitic, or they don’t understand things like what Intifada actually means.


0:25:10.8 Michael Vacanti: Yeah.


0:25:13.9 Jordan Syatt: Anyway, pyramid.


0:25:17.4 Michael Vacanti: The pyramid of 2024. Do it Jordan.


0:25:19.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s the pyramid.


0:25:20.2 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. There he is.


0:25:23.5 Jordan Syatt: The pyramid. Let’s go. If you’re an Office fan, then you’re going to laugh about the power of the pyramid. That’s all I’m going to say ’cause I know Mike isn’t an office fan, but…


0:25:34.4 Michael Vacanti: I dabble, I’ve caught an episode here and there.


0:25:37.9 Jordan Syatt: You don’t like it though.


0:25:38.9 Michael Vacanti: Michael Scott?


0:25:39.5 Jordan Syatt: We’re not going to spend time on this ’cause, yeah, you’re not a fan of Michael Scott. You’re not a fan of that kind of humor.


0:25:45.4 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. There’s bits and pieces that are funny. I like plots. I like narratives. I like story.


0:25:51.0 Jordan Syatt: You like archetypes.


0:25:52.0 Michael Vacanti: I love a good archetype.


0:25:52.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:25:53.7 Michael Vacanti: I think great archetypes in great fiction is one of the best ways that we learn how to live.


0:26:01.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh man. I’m glad you brought that up. I’m watching, I re-picked up Game of Thrones today.


0:26:12.6 Michael Vacanti: The best.


0:26:13.3 Jordan Syatt: Or yesterday, actually. The title…


0:26:17.1 Michael Vacanti: Season one, episode one?


0:26:18.7 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no. ’cause I was like, I think I’m season four right now. Something like that.


0:26:23.4 Michael Vacanti: Oh, you were watching, you just fell off. You were watching during cardio and…


0:26:26.0 Jordan Syatt: I fell off, I was watching other stuff. Yeah. So now I’m back on it.


0:26:31.1 Michael Vacanti: You stopped in the middle of season four?


0:26:31.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:26:31.8 Michael Vacanti: Wow.


0:26:32.8 Jordan Syatt: Now I’m back on it though.


0:26:34.8 Michael Vacanti: That’s like me watching a movie over the course of multiple days. That’s like a, that’s an interesting place to stop.


0:26:39.6 Jordan Syatt: I did it for several months. I just went into different, there’s a lot of different… Anyway, I picked it back up episode today I’m watching. Maester Aemon says something fucking awesome to Jon Snow. And it’s the title of the episode, the title of the episode, “Kill the Boy.” And…


0:27:02.7 Michael Vacanti: “Become the man.”


0:27:05.8 Jordan Syatt: John Snow is going through a very difficult time, and he has to make really difficult decisions. And he is talking to this a 100- year-old man, very wise man. And he’s saying, “I’m nervous. I think half the people in underneath me are going to hate me.” And Maester Aemon is like, “half the people already hate you, kill the boy, become the man.” And it was just like, I was getting my cardio in, 15 incline, 3.1 speed. And I was just like, let me rewind that. Watch that again. And then it was just like, man, kill the boy, become the man. Make the decisions not based on what’s going to make people like you or hate you, but you’ve got to do what’s right. And it was awesome because Jon Snow was like, “I didn’t even tell you what the plan was yet.” He was like, “you don’t need to tell me what the plan is. I don’t need to know what the plan is. You know what it is. And that’s what matters. Kill the boy, become the man.” Man, that’s the right way to start off the day.


0:28:01.3 Michael Vacanti: I love it. He was Lord Commander at that point?


0:28:04.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. He had just become Lord Commander. Yeah.


0:28:08.1 Michael Vacanti: And what was the dilemma? Something related to teaming up with the wildlings, or is that later?


0:28:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly.


0:28:11.4 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.


0:28:14.3 Jordan Syatt: He was trying to figure out if he should team up with the wildlings. Exactly.


0:28:17.0 Michael Vacanti: The pyramid.


0:28:23.9 Jordan Syatt: The pyramid.


0:28:26.6 Michael Vacanti: All right. So in part one of how to build the online fitness business in 2024, we discussed that expectation of not building to maximize dollars in 2024, but instead, you’re laying the foundation for the rest of your career thinking in 5, 10, 20 year blocks of time, the importance of long form content and briefly discussing the importance of having an email list and building your email list.


0:28:56.9 Jordan Syatt: Go listen to the episode.


0:29:00.8 Michael Vacanti: Yeah, of course. Today, what are we talking about, Jordan?


0:29:05.4 Jordan Syatt: Education and documentation is what we’re talking about today.


0:29:11.3 Michael Vacanti: Let’s go.


0:29:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Education, this is the next part of the pyramid. All right. I’m going to keep this part relatively brief. And actually, you know what, it actually goes in well with what we were talking about. Education. You’ve got to learn, that actually snuck in seamlessly well, you’ve got to learn to become a great coach. And there are many ways to do this. College sucks. We’ve already covered that. So you don’t need to go to college to become a great coach. There are amazing, amazing programs online, whether it’s Precision Nutrition Certification, which I, it’s fantastic. Whether it’s Alan Aragon’s Research Review, which is fantastic, whether it’s Lyle McDonald’s free information, there are many books that you can get. There is an online fitness business mentorship run by Mike Vacanti and Jordans Syatt, you could join it at the link in the show notes. There are many ways…


0:30:06.3 Michael Vacanti: You can apply.


0:30:07.4 Jordan Syatt: To educate yourself.


0:30:09.1 Michael Vacanti: You can’t necessarily join, but you can apply. We’ve changed since the…


0:30:12.6 Jordan Syatt: You can apply to join. Link is in the description. You can apply to join. We’re going to see if we’re a good fit. And, so there are many, many ways that you can figure out or that you can learn and study and educate yourself. And we’ve spoken about this before and I’ll briefly say it again, you do not educate yourself on Instagram. And I’m not saying you can’t educate yourself on Instagram, what I am saying is Instagram is not the first place you go to educate yourself. You might learn some exercises or maybe be exposed to some new concepts on Instagram briefly, but you can’t gain true knowledge and education of nuance on Instagram. You just can’t. You just can’t. Get it from books, get it from courses, get it from certifications. And I know that Mike and I have spoken, we’re not the biggest fan of most certifications.


0:31:02.4 Jordan Syatt: I would rather you get a decent certification than spend more time on Instagram. I would rather you spend time studying a certification that is okay than trying to get all of your knowledge from Instagram. So if you are starting out and trying to become an amazing, amazing coach, and specifically you’re trying to build a very successful business, but you lack education, you’re really, you’re going to be whiffing, you’re going to be getting air balls, you’re going to be missing it. Education has to be a massive foundation of your business.


0:31:42.3 Michael Vacanti: A 100%.


0:31:43.4 Jordan Syatt: What do you have to say about education, Michael?


0:31:46.1 Michael Vacanti: What don’t I have to say about colleges and education? So I completely agree with everything you just laid out. And to give an example or to solidify the argument that you’re not learning on Instagram, even if you think you are, think about the process of taking a course and then taking an exam after, or taking a college class and taking exams and writing papers. These are active forms of learning where not only are you presented with the information you need, but there are tactics to help you retain and be able to implement that information. When you’re scrolling through reels and you rifle through 200 before bed at night and it’s 80% fitness content, you’re not retaining that.


0:32:36.6 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:32:44.1 Michael Vacanti: You might grasp one idea from that, that you even remember, let alone actually know how to implement in the future. And look, there are times where Jordan will text me once every month or two months and he’ll be like, “Hey, Alan, put out a really long post” that’s a carousel and it’s all words. And it’s basically like half a website article crammed into a caption in like 10 pictures, which is actually reading, or Alex Viada has done stuff like that in the past. There are instances where you can seek out a great piece of content and learn something from it. We’re not saying that you can’t, but the majority of what is on any short form content, I don’t care if it’s Twitter, YouTube shorts, TikTok, you’re not retaining that information. And the information itself isn’t going in depth to the extent it needs to for you to be able to learn from it and learn what you need to learn.


0:33:38.2 Michael Vacanti: In addition to that, one of the underrated forms of education is experience. I think we learn best by doing. Obviously a combination of intaking information and then applying it is best, but let’s not forget about what we’re learning when we’re actually working with clients, which is something that’s overlooked. And we’ll have people even in the mentorship who say, I’m working a nine to five right now. I have two young kids. I’m trying to get my online business off the ground. I know you guys talk about in-person coaching experience. I just don’t really have time to take on some kind of formal position as an in-person coach. What those people will do is spend one to three hours a week working with people they know in person, come to my apartment building gym, I’ll go to your garage gym, like family member, friend, deep discount or unpaid, but doing whatever it takes to get that in-person coaching experience, because there are so many things that you will learn working with a client in person that you can’t learn from a book.


0:34:53.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:34:54.4 Michael Vacanti: And I could start listing off examples, but then we could just be giving examples throughout the rest of this episode. Little things that you wouldn’t even consider, like, if you’re pairing two exercises together, making sure that based on the setup in the gym that that person has that it’s realistic for them to have two pieces of machinery at once, and that they’re close enough together, that that’s actually a workable superset. Or with a population, a lot of people get good at training themselves because they’re huge fitness fanatics and are really into fitness and have been for 20 years, and that’s one of the reasons they became a coach.


0:35:38.2 Michael Vacanti: So you know how to train someone like yourself, but you don’t know how to train different demos. And if you’re working with someone who’s very overweight and doesn’t have the greatest movement ability, simply programming a standing exercise with a lying exercise can either be a really good thing if you want that individual to be standing up and getting back to the floor six different times in that 12 or 15-minute window, or it can be a really bad thing if you don’t want that individual going from the floor to standing up. Depending on what you’re doing, you’re not going to read about this in almost any book, but when you’re actually working with that population, you’re going to learn, oh, okay, I’m going to give you the, whatever. I’m going to give you the standing shoulder press with the insert other standing move rather than something that puts them in a position that you don’t want to put them in practically throughout their workout.


0:36:37.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I completely agree. And I think, it’s funny, one of my neighbors, she has been doing that, not because she’s been speaking to me or anything, but I’ve noticed a couple hours a week, she coaches people out of her garage. I don’t know what the deal is, I don’t know if they’re paid, I don’t know if they’re family, if they’re friends or what. But just a couple hours a week, I see her coaching people. And she doesn’t have a lot of equipment. She’s got a yoga mat and some yoga blocks and a couple dumbbells, and she’s got a couple people in her garage every week for a couple hours. And I’m like, that’s fucking awesome.


0:37:03.2 Michael Vacanti: I love it.


0:37:04.6 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know if she wants to be a coach. I don’t know if she’s trying to make money. I don’t know what, but I’m like, there’s always something you can do. And what I’ll say is this, let’s say that for whatever reason you can’t coach people in person, let’s say whatever reasons you come up with, I can’t coach people in person. The next best thing is doing live Zoom sessions with your clients as they train. This is the next best thing that you can do to being in person with them. And because here’s the difference. When you’re with them for that hour, even if it’s on Zoom, you’re expected to correct their technique in the moment. You’re expected to adjust in the moment, right? If they’re doing an exercise like ah, that really is bugging my shoulder.


0:37:49.4 Jordan Syatt: Cool, we’re gonna switch, we’re gonna do this instead. Or, you know what? Let me look at your technique. Change the camera angle so that I can see that, if they’re doing a hip thrust and like they’re just using all lower back and no glutes, like you have to be like Hey, let me adjust this based on what I’m seeing with this camera angle. And in that moment, you have to adjust it. I think it is a little bit more difficult, which might actually be good. Because in person you can actually get your hands on them. You can put them in a position that you want them to, when you’re on zoom, it’s like you can only use your words and then maybe you have to demonstrate it yourself. So it might actually be even a little bit more difficult, but it could be very beneficial from that difficulty.


0:38:26.7 Michael Vacanti: And beneficial in terms of helping you with online coaching, because it’s more similar to the type of…


0:38:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Verbal.


0:38:31.6 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. Cueing and feedback you’re gonna be giving with an online coaching client.


0:38:37.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So if you can’t do in person, Zoom it up, get them online. And again, you don’t need any equipment. Do some body weight work on Zoom and coach them through it. Don’t just do the standard, All right, well here’s your program here. Just do squats and just do pushups. Like you should be on there with them, coaching them through it, demonstrating, cueing. That I think is one of the biggest things because if you’re writing programs for people and they’re struggling to do the technique properly and you don’t know how to cue them to actually use the right technique, you’re not gonna be a great coach and they won’t stick with you for long. And this isn’t just with exercise technique, this is also with nutrition. How do you speak to your clients? When they say something, are you aware of how you should respond in a certain situation?


0:39:22.7 Jordan Syatt: We were actually just talking about this in the mentorship. Like when someone who wasn’t weighing their food, how do you actually bring up to them the right… Like what’s the right way to ask, are you weighing your food? Do you have a food scale? These are our simple nuances that make a big, big difference in communication with a client. So again, not only studying exercise and program design and all of that, but also studying client psychology, behavior, communication. These are all things that you should be studying. And again, you don’t need to go to fucking college for this stuff. You could join us in the mentorship and we’ll talk to you about it in there. We’ll teach you in there. That’s what we have the mentorship for. Link is in the description, but that’s what we need. And you need to have practical education in this process. And so yeah, education is by far number one.


0:40:09.9 Michael Vacanti: I love the idea of like basically if you can’t practically get with someone in person for coaching, Zoom is the next best thing. That’s a great suggestion. I don’t think that I’ve heard you say that or thought of it.


0:40:25.7 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t. That was the first time. I just thought of it right now.


0:40:28.8 Michael Vacanti: Really, really good idea.


0:40:32.8 Jordan Syatt: Thanks man.


0:40:34.5 Michael Vacanti: At a high level here, we can continue to talk about specifics and tactics, but at a high level, education is on this pyramid because it’s unbelievably important for the success of your business. And we’re not saying that like oh, do it because it’s the right thing to do. Or like become the best coach you can because then your clients are gonna get the best results. And like you’ll feel good about it. Like this is actually a business tactic, right? Like you could focus 95% of your time on sales and marketing and social media or 99% of your time and you’ll be able to get clients and make money without being a great coach. But you won’t be able to retain those clients. And the way that successful online fitness businesses work over years and decades is through retention, right? If you’re just churning through clients, because you’re spending all of your time and dollars working on getting tactics to get more clients rather than on educating yourself so that you can really help each of those individuals, it’s gonna hurt your business. And so this isn’t just like woo woo, like feel good, do the right thing. But being the best coach you can be and educating yourself is actually really good for business.


0:42:02.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. People ask, how can I stand out? How can I stand out in an industry that’s so saturated? Fucking be smart. Educate yourself. That’s how you stand out. People think about these business tactics, you know how do I stand out? What wigs should I wear? What ads should I use? I don’t know. Fucking educate yourself. That’s how you stand out among the sea of influencers who are showing their labia and fucking just like doing nothing except like trying to use their body.


0:42:28.8 Michael Vacanti: And penis.


0:42:29.4 Jordan Syatt: And their peen. All the dudes who are just showing off their peen in the gray sweatpants season. We don’t want that. You don’t wanna use your body to… You can use your body, but you don’t want the body to be the main focus of your fitness information.


0:42:41.6 Michael Vacanti: Correct.


0:42:42.2 Jordan Syatt: If you wanna stand out, don’t use your peen.


0:42:46.9 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. Or at least use the parts of your body that are relevant to your fitness program rather than…


0:42:56.4 Jordan Syatt: Your brain.


0:42:56.5 Michael Vacanti: Yeah, definitely. But even your muscles as well.


0:43:00.7 Jordan Syatt: If you want people to take you seriously, use your brain.


0:43:00.8 Michael Vacanti: A 100%. A 100%.


0:43:01.5 Jordan Syatt: People are like why don’t people take me seriously? Oh, I don’t know because you’re shirtless. Or because like you’re naked in all of your fucking videos. It’s like of course they don’t take you seriously. So you’re thirst-trapping every fucking, it’s like all right, you’re doing like a shoulder race, but all I see is your butt. Of course they don’t take you seriously. You’re not even explaining what to do or how to do it or why to do it. You’re just…


0:43:21.7 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. Those are funny like videos where it’s a technique video, but like the angle of the camera and everything and like even the… Like exaggerating some anterior pelvic tilt and like everything is just pointing at the butt, but it’s like how to do a lateral raise.


0:43:39.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly.


0:43:42.6 Michael Vacanti: Yeah.


0:43:43.9 Jordan Syatt: All right, So the next aspect after education, documentation. Now there’s so much to this, but… And again, we were just talking about this on the live Q&A we did in the mentorship, one of the newer members in the mentorship was saying how he’s just starting making consistent content, but he is getting stuck in the paralysis analysis mindset. He’s not sure what to do. And we were talking about how he should be making content… At the very minimum documenting his process, documenting what he’s doing. Document your workouts, and if you wanna include some education in there, oh, I’m doing this because I have this injury. I’m making this modification because X, Y, and Z. That’s great. But just start by documenting what you’re doing. And one of the best parts about this is, number one, it will force you to start educating yourself unless you wanna look like an idiot.


0:44:33.8 Jordan Syatt: Like you want to do smart stuff. So you’ll be researching exercise technique, exercise progressions, program design. You’ll be researching it because you want to actually appear intelligent, like you know something. And also it will force you to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Now it’s not you just making posts and infographics and tweet posts saying what to do. Now, it’s you actually putting in the work and showing people that you’re putting in the work, which I think is one of the most powerful things you can do, is showing people that you’re getting your steps in. Like one of the things like I’ll just show people my step count or I’ll show people what I’m doing and I’ll make a quick video of it. Like when I made the video of me getting my first full palms to floor with legs completely straight, that got a huge amount of engagement from people, especially ’cause it was a topic I’ve never really addressed very much.


0:45:28.7 Jordan Syatt: And people were like I wanna be able to do that. I wanna be able to do that. And I couldn’t do that for my whole life. But now because I can do it, people wanna know, well, what did you do? And now I have to study and I have to learn and I have to go back to the education component, not just to learn how I can do it, but now how can I coach people to do it? How can I educate them? Why is this? Like what happened, physiologically, what happened that let me do this? What happened from a program design perspective? What happened that allowed me to get here? And then how might other people struggle? Like what are other potential factors that might limit someone from being able to do that and how could I help coach them through it? So when you don’t just talk the talk, but you walk the walk and you document it, you’re almost gonna be forced to go back to that educational component.


0:46:07.5 Michael Vacanti: Yeah, absolutely. And we’re not saying… Walk the talk doesn’t mean you need to be stage ready for a bodybuilding show, right?


0:46:15.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct. I’m not.


0:46:20.2 Michael Vacanti: The era… Me neither. The era of only showing yourself at your absolute best at an unsustainable physique and then hiding for months at a time is over, right? When you’re documenting, whatever platform it’s on, like you’re consistently showing what you’re doing. And so walk the talk means demonstrate the process as well as the types of results that clients can expect to get who work with you through what you’re doing on a day-to-day basis. And yeah, you have…


0:46:57.8 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been fucking the saying up. I’ve been saying walk the walk. Is it walk the talk?


0:47:02.1 Michael Vacanti: I always said walk the walk. I thought you said walk the talk. So I started saying it.


0:47:05.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh man. All right.




0:47:08.9 Michael Vacanti: I think it’s both. I’ve heard both. Let’s find out. Because I like walk the walk. It just sounds a little swaggier, like a little like walk the walk. But I think walk the talk means you’re behaving like you talk.


0:47:23.6 Jordan Syatt: You’re walking while you’re talking. Yeah. That makes sense.


0:47:23.9 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. Walk the walk versus walk the talk. Hang on. Google’s about to serve something up. If you say that someone talks the talk but does not walk the walk, you mean that they do not act in a way that agrees with the things they say. What does it mean to walk the talk? It means putting your words into action, showing that you mean what you say by actively doing it yourself. I think they’re interchangeable.


0:47:47.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Got it. Okay. Cool. Cool. All right. Good. Walk the talk.


0:47:51.8 Michael Vacanti: Yeah. Or the walk, but walk one of them and for better or worse, it’s great marketing. Like as much as I don’t like it and it doesn’t indicate who the better coach is. If you take two people who are completely equal in all regards, but one person takes their own fitness seriously and documents it and the other person doesn’t, the marketing benefit associated with walking the talk is going to lead to person A’s business doing drastically better than person B. We’ve just seen so many hundreds of coaches build their business or some not succeed at building their business or maybe not succeed as fast as they could have. That documenting your own fitness and taking your own fitness seriously will help your coaching business and will help you and will help your health and will help your life as well.


0:48:53.8 Jordan Syatt: I was talking to my buddy… Actually, this is funny. I was talking to my buddy in Israel yesterday and he went out to lunch with one of his friends who’s a personal trainer. My buddy is not a personal trainer at all. Not in the least, but he went out to lunch with one of his friends in Israel who’s a personal trainer, and they were talking and his personal trainer friend said he was having issues with business, blah, blah, blah, which makes sense. They’re at war. Anyway, he was like “I have a friend I might be able to put you in touch with.” And he was referring to me and his friend was, like “well, who’s your friend?” And my buddy said, “Jordan Syatt,” And apparently this kid was like “you know Jordan Syatt?” He lost his mind. And my buddy Ido, he said this quote is like one of the best quotes ever. He said, “I love him. You know why? He’s just like a regular dude. He doesn’t even shave his chest.” Which I thought was hilarious.


0:49:50.2 Jordan Syatt: But it’s one of those things where it’s like that mainstream old school fitness model that shaves his chest and oils himself up and is shredded all the time. Like generally I think that’s more at least from my history, like that’s more captivating to a high school, college age dude. And there might be a female equivalent of that at that age as well. But I think for people 25 and up, they’re not looking for, generally speaking, they’re not looking for the most shredded or for the most jacked. I think they’re usually looking for the one who’s most relatable. And I have seen huge amounts of people who’ve lost 25, 50, 75, 100 plus pounds, who have loose skin, who are not stage ready, who don’t look like the 2012 men’s health or women’s health front magazine cover. They just look like regular people, but they also have a lot of knowledge about fitness, who crush it with their business because they document what they’re doing and they share about it.


0:50:54.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s one of those things that are just, it’s so helpful and again, if we’re talking about standing out, you have standing out from the education perspective, also stand out from the relatability perspective. And when we’re talking about standing out from the relatability perspective, the cool part is being relatable, the last thing you want to do is something that most people can’t or won’t do. When you want to be relatable, you want to be a regular person that most people can resonate with. And I think the amount of people I’ve gotten were like, I signed up with you because you’re just a regular dude. You’re not shredded to bits, you don’t look unattainable. They say like I would love to look like you and I believe I can look like you. As opposed to someone who’s routed out, or not even routed out maybe, but like their entire life is everything fitness, they’re super shredded. That’s all they think about or care about. But then they’re online talking about flexibility and sustainability. But on their own time they’re having rice cakes and tilapia. You know that’s not the life that they’re living. It’ not relatable. And being relatable is a huge advantage in today’s day and age.


0:52:05.1 Michael Vacanti: Mic drop. I don’t wanna out you for all the tilapia you’ve been eating, so I won’t right now, but I just, you know.


0:52:13.6 Jordan Syatt: Ugh. There was a period in my life where I was a big tilapia guy. Not anymore though.


0:52:17.9 Michael Vacanti: Maybe that’s why you hate college ’cause you were always eating tilapia.


0:52:21.7 Jordan Syatt: I was always eating tilapia, I got that frozen tilapia. I got all those frozen, do you remember those frozen tilapia?


0:52:25.9 Michael Vacanti: Oh yeah.


0:52:26.4 Jordan Syatt: I’d just get a whole bunch of them. Do you remember that classic YouTube video where the guy was like yeah. So for breakfast I have a rice cake with tilapia and for lunch I have a rice cake with tilapia. Do you remember that?


0:52:40.2 Michael Vacanti: No.


0:52:41.5 Jordan Syatt: It was a classic YouTube video back in the day, like 2009, 2010?


0:52:45.8 Michael Vacanti: No, I did not. I never saw that one.


0:52:48.0 Jordan Syatt: You were a tilapia guy.


0:52:51.7 Michael Vacanti: Oh yeah. Take it freestyle. Put it straight on the pan…


0:52:51.8 Jordan Syatt: Are you still a tilapia guy?


0:52:54.4 Michael Vacanti: Am I still? No, I haven’t had tilapia in and you know what? I think I got weirdly scared of tilapia at one point.


0:53:02.3 Jordan Syatt: Why?


0:53:02.3 Michael Vacanti: I don’t even remember.


0:53:03.3 Jordan Syatt: Mercury?


0:53:05.5 Michael Vacanti: No. Yeah, tilapia is low in mercury.


0:53:07.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s just straight protein.


0:53:10.2 Michael Vacanti: It’s straight protein. But it was something about like farm raised tilapia from China and like something bad about it that sold me on the fact that…


0:53:20.9 Jordan Syatt: China. Farm raised tilapia from China. [laughter] We don’t have the Chinese tilapia. We don’t have it. We don’t have it. [laughter]


0:53:30.5 Michael Vacanti: I told you that impression’s getting good. I don’t remember why, but yeah, the macros are insane on it. In college though, I ate a lot of tilapia. I would just take it frozen, put it on the pan, like cook it from frozen to cooked and it would burn. And then I’d put barbecue sauce on it. Like no seasoning just…


0:53:48.9 Jordan Syatt: Sugar free barbecue sauce.


0:53:49.9 Michael Vacanti: No, dude, I didn’t know about macros in college.


0:53:55.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow. I thought you did.


0:53:57.7 Michael Vacanti: I mean, not my sophomore year when I was having tilapia with barbecue sauce at age 19.


0:54:02.9 Jordan Syatt: Got it.


0:54:03.4 Michael Vacanti: I’ll never forget. I got in an argument.


0:54:05.7 Jordan Syatt: I mean, you knew enough to have like low fat, high protein.


0:54:06.9 Michael Vacanti: I probably read tilapia is good in a magazine or something. But I was…


0:54:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, got it, got it, got it. What was the argument?


0:54:12.5 Michael Vacanti: The argument I had… I think I’ve talked about this before. The argument was with an ex-girlfriend and she was talking about calories.




0:54:20.6 Michael Vacanti: And I like scoffed at her and I was like meal frequency. It doesn’t matter how many calories you eat. If you eat often enough, trust me, you’ll get lean.


0:54:29.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s gonna work. [laughter]


0:54:30.7 Michael Vacanti: I was like the metabolic fire is just always stoking, just constantly eating throughout the day. When in hindsight I was probably taking 20,000 steps and the types of food that I was eating was high protein, low calorie, and I was eating it consistently throughout the day, but I was probably eating 1800 calories.


0:54:48.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And you don’t eat when you’re not hungry. You’ve got that advantage to you as well.


0:54:51.2 Michael Vacanti: Usually if I’m dialed, there’s different… There’s physiological hunger. I think there’s also like dopamine deficit related hunger that can lead to overeating. Or you want the… It’s not physiological hunger, it’s some kind of psychological, wanting to feel good reaching for ice cream for that reason.


0:55:11.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That makes sense. Did we hit this portion of the pyramid well? We hit education and documentation.


0:55:18.4 Michael Vacanti: I think we did.


0:55:21.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Document it. Educate yourself and document it. Let’s go, walk the talk.


0:55:29.7 Michael Vacanti: We’re gonna be… This is a multi-part series that’s gonna come together over the next few episodes. And then we’re gonna sort it into the final version of the pyramid that we’ll be posting on our Instagram @personaltrainerpodcast. If you’re not following, go give us a follow. Jordan just posted there today, actually.


0:55:48.3 Jordan Syatt: I did. The pyramid, if you want to apply to join us in the mentorship, you can do that at the link in the show notes. If you liked this episode, please leave a five star review. It would mean the world to us. If you’re like no I don’t wanna leave a five star review, I’m gonna leave a four or a three star. Just don’t even leave it. Only five star reviews, please. And that’s it. We’re gonna come back next… Are we gonna do more of this pyramid next week?


0:56:16.0 Michael Vacanti: Oh yeah. Yeah. More pyramid coming.


0:56:18.2 Jordan Syatt: More pyramid coming next week. Yeah. More pyramid on the way. Have a wonderful week. We’ll talk to you soon.


0:56:25.8 Michael Vacanti: Bye everyone.

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