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In this episode, we continue this multi-part series in which we outline the most important steps you need to take in order to grow your online fitness business in 2024 (and beyond).


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.9 Mike Vacanti: Hello Jordan.


0:00:12.9 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael? How are you? Oops sorry, David.


0:00:20.7 Mike Vacanti: Cold open. I like it.


0:00:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Immediately start… As I start fucking around with stuff on my desk making noise. What’s going on, man, you’re in Miami?


0:00:27.0 Jordan Syatt: I am. I am coaching Gary down here. Rearranged the hotel room for a podcast studio, just had a little work out.


0:00:34.4 Jordan Syatt: What did you do?


0:00:35.3 Mike Vacanti: Well, a pretty terrible push day, but don’t worry, it’s only day two of 2024, things are only building. Oh, I didn’t even tell you this. This is perfect.


0:00:44.8 Jordan Syatt: You didn’t even think about J-ing it this hard now you’re just gonna surprise me with the story. Okay.


0:00:48.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, it just randomly came to me. I am never scrolling again.


0:01:01.0 Jordan Syatt: What happened?


0:01:01.5 Mike Vacanti: I just had an epiphany and I think I’m going on like two and a half days, I don’t scroll. Like this motion where you’re holding your phone, if you’re listening, I’m holding out my hand like I’m holding the phone and your thumb moves up, like scrolling as Jordan takes a pull of beet juice. I’m done scrolling.


0:01:23.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude I love that. That’s… I’m super happy for you.


0:01:27.9 Mike Vacanti: I know, I thought you would be. I’m just letting everyone know that on the beach…


[overlapping conversation]


0:01:32.4 Jordan Syatt: There’s nothing in particular that spawned this, spurned this?


0:01:37.2 Jordan Syatt: Well it’s a continuation of our discussion from last time when you ask what I would rather be doing that… We both compared screen time and you ask what I’d rather be doing than scrolling on my phone, and I said, “literally, anything else in the world.” You found that funny. You were like, you… Read a book. I was like, “Read a book would be perfect, but literally anything besides scrolling.” I truly am at a point where I think that unintentional mindless cellphone consumption, specifically on short form platforms is ruining my life. And by ruining I mean, just putting me in a state of stupidity and mediocrity. And I’m done forever. And that’s a proclamation here on How to Become a Personal Trainer podcast, man.


0:02:21.4 Jordan Syatt: Man this is the beginning of a new life. That makes me so happy.


0:02:26.2 Mike Vacanti: Good, I’m glad.


0:02:27.5 Jordan Syatt: Good. All right.




0:02:31.1 Mike Vacanti: You weren’t ready for that at all. You were not ready.


0:02:34.3 Jordan Syatt: No. I wasn’t… I was expecting something very different, I was expecting like a… I don’t know, I wasn’t expecting that, but I’m really glad that you’re done scrolling. That’s good.


0:02:42.5 Mike Vacanti: I think you’re just saying that to be supportive, I don’t think you fully understand how good it is, but, yes, it’s beyond good.


0:02:49.2 Jordan Syatt: My brain goes to, I wonder how long this is gonna last.


0:02:52.7 Mike Vacanti: Forever. Forever. I wish… David, could we clip that four seconds of Jordan laughing and can we make that my cell phone alarm every single morning because I just want that. I wanna remember that.


0:03:07.9 Jordan Syatt: You know how we have to bet the… I forget what it’s called, but the type of bet where when I get X amount get in the bank…


0:03:12.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s a free roll. You basically…


[overlapping conversation]


0:03:16.9 Mike Vacanti: No, I get a free roll. Oh no, you don’t get a free roll on this because no… It’s very difficult. I don’t think you understand how difficult it is to not ever scroll.


0:03:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude I more understand than anybody how difficult that is. I’m way…


0:03:32.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t…


0:03:33.2 Jordan Syatt: I scroll away more than you scroll.


0:03:35.4 Mike Vacanti: I know, but because almost all of society’s scrolling is mindless and unintentional, and not in the present state, but in a robotic state, I don’t think people realize how much they do it. Nor how detrimental it is.


0:03:51.3 Jordan Syatt: I agree.


0:03:51.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think if you fully do, but that’s okay. That’s okay.


0:03:56.2 Jordan Syatt: I do fully… Why wouldn’t I fully agree with that?


0:03:58.6 Mike Vacanti: July 2017, I swore off alcohol and I’ve drank three times… Legitimately, I’ve had three drinks or more, I think, three times since then in… What is that? Six and a half years.


0:04:11.1 Jordan Syatt: One of those with me in Dallas.


0:04:13.6 Mike Vacanti: No, I think I only had three.


0:04:17.7 Jordan Syatt: Wow. ’cause you were pretty drunk.


0:04:18.7 Mike Vacanti: When you don’t… I wasn’t drunk.




0:04:25.2 Jordan Syatt: I thought you definitely had more than three.


0:04:29.0 Mike Vacanti: No, just a few Claws, just felt a little loopy. Yeah. This is a new era.


0:04:36.8 Jordan Syatt: I like that. I like that.


0:04:41.3 Mike Vacanti: How’s your beet juice?


0:04:41.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude it’s really good. I’m a fan of it. I’ve been drinking a lot of the beet juice and the carrot juice, carrot juice with the lemon. This ones from Langer Farms ’cause it’s less expensive than the other one. I think the other one was Knudsen, I don’t know how to pronounce it, but it’s got the K in the front. So Knudsen or Knudsen, but the Langer was right next to it, and it was like three bucks cheaper. So I was like, “I’ll just go with that one.” So I’m a big fan.


0:05:04.7 Mike Vacanti: I like that. I like you making decisions at the margins, every dollar counts.


0:05:09.5 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been doing… I’ve been going to the grocery store… So usually my wife is the one that goes to the grocery store, which I know someone’s gonna be like “You’re misogynistic.” No, it’s just like, she usually goes and then I’m usually here working, but anyway…


0:05:23.2 Mike Vacanti: No more playing defense against the opinions of people who don’t even like us.


0:05:26.1 Jordan Syatt: I have to play defense.


0:05:26.7 Mike Vacanti: No in 2024 we’re coming with so much testosterone. We’re done playing defense against people who don’t like us and disagree with us. I’m serious. Jordan’s wife often does the grocery shopping. That’s a very reasonable arrangement. If you wanna do things differently great, but that’s how it is. And he’s not apologizing, continue Jordan.


0:05:46.5 Jordan Syatt: No, apologies. Anyway, she’s been sick the last two weeks, so I’ve been going to the grocery store, and while I’ve been going to the grocery store, I’ve been doing… I’ve been like, I love going to the grocery store, I actually really enjoy it. And you see all the foods and all the marketing, I have a lot of fun with it, so I’ve been posting random stuff on my stories, and it’s actually… I’ve always seen those obnoxious reels of people when they go in and they’re like, “Don’t eat this specific food, or this oil is like motor oil you shouldn’t eat this,” whatever. So it’s very easy to get caught up in that stuff, but what was crazy is the stuff I was posting was very basic, super basic nutrition, either marketing… Understanding nutrition-based marketing or just nutrition knowledge, there is marketing on the pistachio saying protein power, and then I was like, “That’s misleading. Pistachios don’t really have that with protein per calorie.” And the amount of engagement that I got on those stories was wild. People were like, “Please do more of these, please do more of this. It’s so, so helpful.” And so I based the vast majority of my content on…


0:06:55.0 Jordan Syatt: The replies that I get from my audience on the actual response, not what I think they want, but on what they essentially tell me they want. And I can see how the grocery store content has been picking up among fitness influencers, because the response is wild, people love walking into a grocery store or just give information. It’s actually very interesting.


0:07:18.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Cool, I’m glad that’s going well, the marketing of high protein on foods that aren’t high protein, and the fact that it continues to happen year over year over year, and it’s basically outright deceit, it’s just a lie on the front of the label, and the fact that it still works and that people don’t understand it is completely insane. Like advice that I have given historically that you have too… And maybe like a different variation is track your calories, track your macronutrients just 30 days, or I think you’ve even said just a week, but 30 days and you’re gonna climb the learning curve so quickly that after two weeks or four weeks or whatever of tracking, you’re never gonna fall for something like that, because the numbers on the front of a package of food literally mean nothing or whatever they’re saying on the front, seven grams of protein per serving. Meanwhile, there’s like 240 calories per serving. Like, “Oh cool, 10% protein by volume, great,” but if you literally flip the package over and see like, “Oh, there’s 20 some fats, there’s 40 some carbs, they’re seven protein like, this is trash. This is a lie.”


0:08:31.9 Jordan Syatt: I feel like eventually, there will be laws in place that prevent this type of marketing, that prevent this type of misleading material. But I also feel like we’re in such a unique time in the world and the history of the world, and that things are going so fast, that it’s gonna take so long for things to catch up in terms of legalities and even now, internet law… I remember when people… I actually got hit with it recently where I had an image on my website and then this company found it and then they were like, “Hey, you’re gonna… You have to pay us this amount of money because you use this… Back in 2013, you posted this image without actually having a copyright claim to it.” And that law is an old, old, old, old law that shouldn’t apply to internet stuff, but it was based on… I forget what you told me it was. They’re still catching up, and by the time they catch up, it’s not even gonna be freaking, there will be new things that won’t make any sense. They’re so far behind.


0:09:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah well the… I forget what they call it, but there’s a maximum amount that the penalty is, and the maximum on that is massive, and it related to stealing an IP in the ’60s and ’70s and had to do with… I don’t remember if I was Disney or Hollywood or what, but yeah. Yeah, I… Yeah, look, I don’t think… Big government moves slow. And so I don’t think that the answer is we need our protectors to make it illegal to post this or to have this form of marketing, it’s on us as individuals to take the little bit of time and effort to educate ourselves to understand that, “Oh, this is actually BS.”


0:10:24.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah there isn’t a lot of protein in cashews or pistachios should be common knowledge.


0:10:31.4 Mike Vacanti: It should be. The fact that it’s not common knowledge…


0:10:36.0 Jordan Syatt: People are still surprised.


0:10:37.7 Mike Vacanti: What that should do for every single coach listening, every single person who wants to build a fitness business who’s listening, every single person who might be struggling and doesn’t know if they can build the fitness business, doesn’t know if there’s enough demand out there for your services, there is. Because most people still think nuts are high protein, and the fact that most people still think that means that there is unlimited demand for your services.


0:11:00.5 Jordan Syatt: You know what would be a great style of content that I might start doing… I just thought of this when I was coaching Gary, and it must have been 2016, 2017. And I used to do this thing where I would take a snack in the morning, whether it was an apple or whether it was almonds, whatever it was, and I would take a picture of it on my story, or on my actual feed on Instagram at that time, and I’d say, “Guess the calories.” And people would put it in the comments. Now, what you could do is you could do a feed post where you put the picture on one, you say “Guess the calories,” and then you say, “Swipe for the answer,” and then you can do… You could do a video of yourself or just picture and show the calories, but it’d be cool. You have a picture of whatever it is, like say a spoonful of peanut butter, and then say, “Guess the calories,” put it in the… Guess the calories, and then say “swipe for the answer,” and then you have a video of yourself showing exactly how many calories or just you could do another image, but the video, I think would be cooler it would develop more depth in that style of content, but especially with things like an avocado or orange juice or nuts or peanut butter or whatever it is, those types of things how…


0:12:11.5 Jordan Syatt: The guessing game is definitely a really good way, and for whatever reason people are always freaking surprised. Another one people are always surprised about is the cooking spray that has 5000 servings per container, and they’re like, “I just thought it was completely zero calories.” But when you learned to read it, it’s like for a third of a second spray, which is physically impossible to do it’s a… Yeah, definitely. That might be a good content idea.


0:12:38.5 Mike Vacanti: Jordan out here, dropping content ideas, we’re talking how to build your business in 2024, I didn’t know we’re getting into it this early, I was excited to BS around, but…


0:12:46.0 Jordan Syatt: We don’t have to no…


[overlapping conversation]


0:12:47.9 Mike Vacanti: People who hate us… Not scrolling on the internet, but Jordan is overflowing with both beet juice and content ideas, and today we are talking about specific tactics for 2024, we’re gonna put that on the back burner just for a little longer. Where was I gonna take that? Completely forgot. You’re very hydrated over there, is that one of your resolutions is to increase your hydration?


0:13:14.4 Jordan Syatt: No, no, it’s just something I’m trying to do more in general.


0:13:18.5 Mike Vacanti: I need you to lean harder into resolution season Jordan. New year, new Jordan.


0:13:24.6 Jordan Syatt: I need to sit down and make mine. I haven’t done mine yet this year, I need to sit down.


0:13:28.6 Mike Vacanti: Let’s do them right now.


0:13:29.8 Jordan Syatt: You wanna make your resolutions public?


0:13:31.8 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, I wanna make yours public.




0:13:34.7 Jordan Syatt: No. I don’t. I wanna make yours public.


0:13:37.7 Mike Vacanti: I already said that…


0:13:41.6 Jordan Syatt: How about let’s each do one resolution publicly? What’s one of your New Year’s resolutions?


0:13:45.3 Mike Vacanti: I literally did, I said, I’m done scrolling. And it was met with… I can’t even… It was met with the same amount of interest that I have in making content.


0:13:54.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s not accurate, I said, “I love that, and I believe that it makes total sense.” And you said, “no, you don’t. You don’t even get it.” And I was, “No I do.” And you’re like, “I don’t think you do.”


0:14:04.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t… I still don’t think you do. But yeah, so I gave one, you can give one now if you like, or you can wait and you can do them in your notebook, whichever you prefer.


0:14:13.7 Jordan Syatt: Let me think about it, ’cause I don’t just wanna just put one, oh, I wanna get my splits, but that’s… I’ve spoken about that before, so I feel like that’s not a good one to do.


0:14:21.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and it’s marketing. I want a real one from the soul.


0:14:25.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay, let me think about it. Maybe on the next episode I’ll… ’cause I’ll have thought about it and I’ll write them down.


0:14:30.9 Mike Vacanti: I like that. You’re not a big fan of New year, new me though.


0:14:36.5 Jordan Syatt: No. It’s not new, you’re not new. It’s you’re the same fucking person as December 31st, just if you wanna use that as an opportunity to set new goals, I love that, and this… I love that. It’s amazing, but you’re not a new person.


0:14:49.7 Mike Vacanti: I would argue that we are a new person in every moment of every single day based on the things that happen to us. So from December 31st to January 1st similar, different…


[overlapping conversation]


0:15:00.0 Jordan Syatt: I couldn’t see that.


0:15:02.6 Mike Vacanti: …person. We are always evolving and we are either ascending or descending as beings on this planet, and so yes, you are literally a new person in the new year, and I think it’s gonna show. I think 2024, it’s gonna be a big year for all of us. I’m very excited. Okay, you wanna talk about growing a business in 2024.


0:15:26.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude I’d love to.


0:15:26.2 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:15:29.5 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think you are ready to.


0:15:29.6 Mike Vacanti: I am so ready to interview you about this, here’s why, because today we are talking about tactics. We’re talking about the nitty-gritty, the specifics, the current state of insert platform, we’re talking about the specific day-to-day actions and behaviors on social media and elsewhere that Jordan is taking to continue to grow his giant business that you will be able to glean from…


0:16:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Jesus.


0:16:00.8 Mike Vacanti: As a result. What?


0:16:03.9 Jordan Syatt: “His giant business.”


0:16:07.0 Mike Vacanti: What do you want me to say? It was meant to be complimentary to your…


0:16:08.5 Jordan Syatt: His business.


0:16:09.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay his business. I was complimenting you I wasn’t trying to… So Jordan, where does your mind go when I say 2024 tactics? Whether that’s…


0:16:27.8 Jordan Syatt: If you don’t watch this on YouTube you’re missing out.


[overlapping conversation]


0:16:31.2 Jordan Syatt: If you’re not watching for the facial expressions and stuff this is too fucking good, if you’re listening, we appreciate it, but if you just want some added humor into you life on these podcasts, like watching some of Mike’s facial expressions as he goes through…


0:16:46.0 Mike Vacanti: Watching Jordan’s face. Jordan’s face is way better. Way better than mine. A thousand times better. Look, some people are driving in their cars, some people are… They’re doing things where they can be watching Jordan, so…


[overlapping conversation]


0:17:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Okay, all right, 2024 tactics. You know what, I’m gonna share some of my favorite tactics that you use.


0:17:13.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay. What are some of your favorite tactics?


0:17:15.1 Mike Vacanti: This podcast is so fun, if I had to work like a real buttoned up job where we couldn’t just joke around… Oh my gosh. No they’re not my favorite tactics, they’re my favorite tactics of yours.


0:17:27.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, oh, okay, I misunderstood.


0:17:31.0 Mike Vacanti: Your 30-day challenge with a sale on the back end is unmatched and unparalleled, and you do it with body composition, so you kind of let yourself very gradually enjoy for a few months and then you’ll do a mini cut, a 30-day fat loss phase with a sale on the back end of it, where you’ve timed it like months in advance, you generally haven’t… These are pre-planned, thought out, this isn’t just willy nilly impulsive is an outstanding strategy that has worked very well, both for you and many people in the mentorship. That’s one that I like. Your… Well, we already talked about the importance of building an email list and how it’s a form of insurance, but continuing to even when you’re not writing your email list continuing to build your email list. That’s what I got right now. Do you have any tactics that you’re thinking about?


0:18:32.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh yes. So number one, thank you. I would say in terms of the building an email list, we can talk about a specific strategy, tactic, whatever you wanna call it, that can help build it, and something I regret not doing it earlier is… So I made my calorie calculator video on YouTube in 2000… I think it was 2017 or 2018 I did, I forget to… It’s somewhere between 2017 and 2019, the one that I have now. So actually, I originally made a calorie calculator video, and then I realized that I could have made it better, and so then I re-did it, so now I have two calorie calculator videos on YouTube, and the one that I made better, I optimized ridiculously well for SEO. And so now it’s got over… Well over a million views, and it’s a main driver for me, what I should have done early on is essentially create an opt-in for my email list saying sign up and you get my free calorie calculator, and then linked into the YouTube video. I didn’t do this until very recently, and when I did this recently in my email list sign-ups just fucking skyrocketed. If I had done this a couple of years ago, I would have probably close to a million, if not more than a million email subscribers…


0:19:48.8 Mike Vacanti: When you say your email skyrocketed, you’re comparing your normal push on usually on an Instagram story where…


0:20:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:20:00.8 Mike Vacanti: You give them some reason to sign up for email list and you’re saying that if instead of whatever reasons you used, you would have said, “sign up here to get my free calorie calculator.”


0:20:11.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct.


0:20:11.9 Mike Vacanti: You would have had way more sign-ups.


0:20:14.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct, and not only that…


0:20:15.9 Mike Vacanti: Because it converts very well or you’ve gotten a lot of…


0:20:18.7 Jordan Syatt: It converts insanely well. And the other issue is, I’ve referenced that video in so many of my other videos, and what I did is say I say, “Click the link below in order to watch my free calorie calculator,” whereas if instead I had said, “click the link to get my free calorie calculator” on every video I’ve ever made, every article or whatever it is, then I would have had way more people signing up for my email list consistently. So for example, I only did this very, very recently, I’ll open up my email list right now… I didn’t do a push for my email list yesterday or today. Let me see if I can see, I’ll show you just randomly people signing up for my email list, just… All right, so just today, it’s 2:55 PM, I have not done a push, this is just random people finding it, I had 56 people so far sign up for that free calorie calculator for just today. And I haven’t done any push, this is just from people finding it from YouTube videos or podcasts, whatever it is for me saying “Sign up for… ” And that’s just today, and then yesterday it says I got 46, so that’s over a 100 people in the last 24 hours, just from… No it’s not over 100 people. Sorry, my math. 56 and 46. Yeah, it’s over 100 people.


0:21:34.4 Mike Vacanti: I had already gone to 1500 a month. I don’t even remember what the daily numbers were.


0:21:38.6 Jordan Syatt: Cool, and this is literally just within the last couple of months that this is happening. And when I do a big push for it or just an outright right hook, I usually get well over 1000, if not more, just in that 24-hour period. Sometimes a couple of thousand.


0:21:57.6 Mike Vacanti: And what you’re doing is you are… Nothing is changing except that rather than the linking a public YouTube video, you are now having them sign up to your email list, and as soon as they sign up, they get an automated email that links them to your public YouTube video. Yeah.


0:22:14.3 Jordan Syatt: Exactly.


[overlapping conversation]


0:22:17.1 Mike Vacanti: So you still get the upside of building viewership and the SEO benefits of lots of watch time on a public video, but rather than linking them straight there, you give them an extra step and you get an email subscriber as a result.


0:22:31.4 Jordan Syatt: Exactly. Yep. And so I’m not saying you have to make a calorie calculator, what I am saying is figure out what your audience wants, and then you can use that as a way, give them some… A free version of it to then get them on your email list, and I wish… This is just a great piece of content that I made. You can do that with literally any piece of content that you’ve made, I think it’s just absolutely incredibly helpful. And this is definitely one of my regrets, I wish I had done this earlier. So from a tactic perspective, strategy perspective, in terms of getting people on your email list, I haven’t personally found a better one than this.


0:23:10.4 Mike Vacanti: This is top of mind best practice thing that you’re implementing, that’s working for you right now. This isn’t like we’re withholding the top 5% that Jordan’s using for himself and then sharing other things. And this is what’s working the best for you right now?


0:23:27.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yep. The big push is the right hooks where I’m like, “Hey, go get this,” they’re great, they’re wonderful, and I’m not gonna stop doing them, but I would rather not have to do those. So if I can continue to make amazing content and continue to push people to this free opt-in. Then in a year, two years, three years, five years, and I have enough more great content pushing people to that email list. I could be getting 1000 people a day signing up for that email list without me having to push anything, without having to do the hard pushes, and that’s where… Just to get over 100 people in the last 24 hours on that email list without me doing anything, shows how huge the opportunity is for something like this, as long as I continue to put out content linking back to that, so… I think that’s one of the most important things you can do from a tactic and strategy perspective.


0:24:23.1 Mike Vacanti: I love it, I love it. I’m for sure gonna win my free roll, you’re gonna be crushing content for years and years to come.


0:24:29.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, you win if I have that amount in the bank, which probably is never gonna happen. So.


0:24:35.1 Mike Vacanti: Bro, you literally just bought a beet juice that was $3 cheaper than the other beet juice. You now are dialing in your costs, your revenue side has always been great, but now you’re dialing in your costs, and you have an investment strategy. I can’t lose it, I basically can’t… I can’t lose this bet because you’re gonna hit the number and you’re gonna keep making content…


0:24:57.1 Jordan Syatt: Did we say that number? I think we said the number.


0:25:00.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s 10 million.


0:25:00.9 Jordan Syatt: 10 million. Yeah, yeah.


0:25:01.4 Mike Vacanti: And it’s not the bank. It’s in liquid assets.


0:25:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Not including a house.


0:25:06.3 Mike Vacanti: Correct. That’s illiquid.


0:25:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Cool.


0:25:08.3 Mike Vacanti: So stocks like something you can convert to cash immediately.


0:25:11.8 Jordan Syatt: Got it, got it, got it. Okay, okay.


0:25:14.1 Mike Vacanti: You got any other tactics that come to mind, otherwise I have something way out of left field, we’ll just give them a… We can give them a little…


0:25:19.7 Jordan Syatt: Let’s do the left field.


0:25:21.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay. My 10th grade debate teacher, I’m not gonna say her name, I don’t wanna… I don’t know, I don’t know what could happen. But basically, she taught civics and debate in high school. Just here let me read you… Let me read you the headline, and David can throw this… I’ll send it to David so he can put this on the screen. No, no… ’cause nevermind, that’s gonna have her name.


[overlapping conversation]


0:25:43.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:25:45.5 Mike Vacanti: Actually, David’s not gonna throw this on the screen because then that would out the person, “this Bloomington Minnesota School teacher… name… and her 14-year-old daughter…”


[overlapping conversation]


0:26:00.2 Jordan Syatt: Now people are just gonna Google it.


0:26:01.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s fine. I didn’t say allegedly… “And her 14-year-old daughter were both arrested at the protest at—insert place—last week, Minnesota teacher called for Israel’s eradication at a socialist rally.”


0:26:15.6 Jordan Syatt: Geez. I was not expecting… This is really out of left field, that’s…


0:26:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Well I was gonna have it…


[overlapping conversation]


0:26:22.4 Jordan Syatt: This one.


0:26:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Well, usually we talk about things in the beginning, but you were so gung-ho overflowing with ideas and business that I had to give the people what was best at the time?


0:26:33.7 Jordan Syatt: My fault. That’s my mistake.


0:26:35.3 Mike Vacanti: No it’s not, I like this. It’s backwards. Just wild.




0:26:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Man. Pretty crazy. Yeah. That’s wild. I don’t know why she was arrested though. What did she allegedly say?


0:27:01.6 Mike Vacanti: I’m not sure. I didn’t dive into it, I just have a screenshot. I didn’t read the article, she’s had trouble with the law before for protests and rallies, and I believe bomb threats, I’m not really sure. Very socially, politically active. I believe.


0:27:21.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe.


0:27:27.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s just so funny because when I reflect back on my… I got very good grades in high school, and in that class, I got a B-, which it might have been my worst grade in all high school actually. And over the last few years, she’s been in the news a few times, but I thought back on like, Oh, yeah, we were debating… It was 2003, I was a sophomore, we were debating whether or not to invade Iraq, and I was like, “Oh, they have weapons of mass destruction,” which funny enough, I was wrong, but I took that side of things, there was a Native American mascots debate. And keep in mind this was 20 years ago, but I was like, “Yeah, they honor the heritage of these tribes, like certain teams, like specific teams that we’re debating, basically took a certain side of every single issue, not thinking that there would be like a biased person assigning… My grades. And in hindsight, it’s like, “Oh okay, this makes a lot of sense.”


0:28:33.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s actually crazy, ’cause I would have thought in a debate class, I would have thought, you don’t get to choose which side. I would have thought they assign you like, “All right, you have to debate this side, you have to debate that side.” ’cause to me, that would make sense from the perspective of you have to develop the argument even if you don’t believe it, but man, if you’re just choosing the side, then that makes sense that based on her alleged history.


0:29:03.3 Mike Vacanti: Or maybe I’m just a horrendous debater or whatever, but there was a lot of grade inflation_


0:29:09.8 Jordan Syatt: You’re a very good debater.


0:29:09.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m not.


0:29:10.0 Jordan Syatt: No. You’re actually a super, super good debater.


0:29:13.7 Mike Vacanti: There was a lot of grade inflation in my high school, so a B- was probably like a D in normal high school. No, I’m serious. We had… AP classes were weighted, so you could technically get more than an A+… There was some weird stuff going on.


0:29:28.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t even understand that.


0:29:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, your GPA is on a four-point scale. 4.0 is an A, 3.7 and A-. I think 4.3 is technically an A+ 3.0 is a B. However, that scales, you got a multiplier, if you took an AP class and you got an A, it wasn’t a 4.0, it was 4.0 times the multiplier, which I think was 1.2, and so it wouldn’t count as a 4.0, it would count as a 4.8, which brings your GPA way up.


0:30:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Interesting, I’m not even gonna pretend I understand any of that, you’re throwing numbers out and like, I just don’t… I don’t get how it works. This is… I did not do well in high school, B- was like my best grade in high school, so that’s good.


0:30:12.3 Mike Vacanti: You guys probably didn’t have the grade inflation we had.


0:30:15.0 Jordan Syatt: I think that was in gym class, I got a B. I actually did really well in gym.


0:30:21.7 Mike Vacanti: Had to defend yourself, you didn’t want it floating around, you got a B- in gym.


0:30:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah I did super well in gym. [laughter] Yeah, dude that’s nuts. That’s… Here’s what’s crazy, or here’s what I think about that though, to go down sort of a different rabbit hole, I don’t know what she did. But let’s just say we’re gonna make up a story. Let’s just say…


0:30:47.0 Mike Vacanti: That someone…


0:30:48.5 Jordan Syatt: No, let’s just say that all she did, and this is just made up, ’cause we don’t know, but let’s just say all she did his call for the eradication of Israel. Let’s just say that’s what she did. I don’t think she should be arrested for that, even though obviously, I completely disagree with that. I don’t like when I see people on whichever side you’re on, essentially happy when someone gets arrested for exercising their free speech. And then they then say, “well, that was like incitement of violence.” No, calling for… Actually.


0:31:24.1 Mike Vacanti: What? It’s the literal definition of an incitement of violence. I know you don’t… I don’t wanna argue that side either…


[overlapping conversation]


0:31:31.4 Jordan Syatt: You know what, I still don’t like it, but I just sort of fucked myself over on that one. Yeah, you know what…


0:31:34.8 Mike Vacanti: Pro free speech, but there are certain things you can’t say.


0:31:39.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, you know what I think I fucked myself over on that one. Nevermind that makes sense.


0:31:44.5 Mike Vacanti: Let’s just say that someone said they don’t like people of a certain race or religion, ethnicity or from a certain part of the world. Okay, you’re allowed to say that, but the erection of the people of a country…


0:31:56.7 Jordan Syatt: Well, I think it’s one thing if she said, “I don’t believe Israel should exist.” I think that’s okay for her to say that she’s exercising a right for free speech, but if she is actively calling to kill them or any people that’s obviously not okay.


0:32:15.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. All right, now we’re gonna shift back to tactics.


0:32:24.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s a real ping-pong game.


0:32:26.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s a ping-pong game. What else do you have?


0:32:31.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I thought you were gonna interview me.


0:32:33.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. What else do you have was my question? Sorry, I’ll try to do better. Look, here’s where I struggle with tactics, I never had a tactic for a day in my life, I never… We laugh this morning because we did a launch video for the January’s launch month in the mentorship, you did many, many launches and have done many, many launches over your career, dozens and dozens. I never once launched, I never hard sold coaching like… Not once. And so in this video, Jordan did the majority of the talking, and then at the end, you were laughing because you thought I was gonna say something… I don’t even remember what I said.


0:33:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Basically, I spoke for almost the entirety of the video, and then I was… And I did the pause that you do when you want the other person to speak. And I was expecting you to add in something and you’re like, “All right, launch time.”




0:33:36.3 Mike Vacanti: Because…


0:33:38.8 Jordan Syatt: And that’s where the video ended.


0:33:40.6 Mike Vacanti: You covered the topic extraordinarily thoroughly, and we all have strengths and weaknesses. If this month was budget and P&L and taxes, there are different things where we contribute different amounts. And I have never done a launch. And so my tactic that I’m gonna share is a lot of soft selling in 2024 if I wanted to build a business throughout the year…


0:34:12.5 Jordan Syatt: Smart.


0:34:13.6 Mike Vacanti: I would be… If you’re gonna post progress pictures of a client, great, but I’m not gonna end the caption with and “20% off coaching like link in my bio.”


0:34:21.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:34:24.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m only gonna tell the story about the client that is hopefully educational, makes the person who gave me permission to share that story feel good about things. But there’s no right hook in it, it’s only a subconscious “Here is what I offer, and here is the type of progress that you could see.” That’s it. No, right hook at all. And is it the fastest way to grow a business? No, it’s not the fastest way to grow business, but it is extraordinarily sustainable and you’re not giving away good will when you do it.


0:34:57.6 Jordan Syatt: What I would also add to what you’ll do is, ’cause this is very overlooked, I see a lot of online coaches making this mistake is when you share that, when they’ve given you permission and you share that, you don’t say, “Hey, this is my client, so and so.” You say, “I wanna give a huge congratulations to my online fat loss coaching client, so and so.” And basically, this might seem not that important, but there’s a difference between saying your client and your online client, and there are still many people who follow me who regularly DM me asking me if I offer… If I have any online coaching programs all the time, and it’s like I talk about the inner circle very frequently. When I was doing one-on-one coaching, people would always ask, “Do I do anything online? Do I offer anything online?” Which is why when you are doing what’s called a soft sale, it’s not you asking for a sale, all that means is you’re mentioning what you offer in a very conversational way. So when you’re sharing progress pictures or when you’re sharing training methodology is like “This is what I use with my online strength training clients, with my online fat loss clients.”


0:36:06.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s it. And you don’t have to say “your link is in the bio,” you don’t have to say… That’s more of a hard sale, a soft sales just when you mention it, so that they become aware of it and it takes longer and it has more… It requires more exposures to them hearing it, but going back to what we first spoke about in this series, you need to be in this for the long game, this isn’t about making short-term sales, like long-term. So thinking from that perspective of consistent soft mentions over time will lead to a much more sustainable business model.


0:36:36.3 Mike Vacanti: 100%. I got another one, I got another tactic.


0:36:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:36:42.6 Mike Vacanti: Stop scrolling actually. Actually, you should be consistently creating content, consuming short-form content on reels or shorts or TikTok is doing nothing for your ability to grow your fitness business, and so… I know it’s hard. We’ve all been there, you can say, “Oh, just post and ghost,” it’s not that easy. You’re gonna be in there replying to comments, you’re gonna be in there replying to DMs, so you’re gonna be opening these apps many times per day. But do the very best you can when you recognize that finger going and that mindless consumption taking over, that’s not why you’re using social media. You’re using social media to educate, you’re using social media to grow an audience of people who you’re gonna help for free so that you have the opportunity to sell them, to sell to them and to build your business, but you’re not there to be entertained and to feel good and have your dopamine reward system…


0:37:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Sparked and engaged. That’s not what you’re doing. If you wanna consume content, go read a research review, go read a book that’s gonna educate you on programming. Do something that’s gonna be beneficial, if you wanna consume content, not the feel good kind of consumption and… No, I’ll leave it at that for now.


0:37:57.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I agree. Stop fucking scrolling as much is really important. I completely agree with that. Yeah, I’m gonna go to the next one. The next one that I’m thinking about, and this is people are gonna be really pissed on and say this. Right now, it seems as though video is the most important, and I see as a result of people thinking that video is the most important, that they are oftentimes doing shitty videos. And I’ll give an example, they’ll just take a seven-second video themselves, and then they’ll just… They’re copying viral videos. This is so unbelievably important. I really hope people are listening to this. So many of the viral videos that we see are just stupid short videos that get millions of views. But how many of those viral videos that you’ve seen, do you then click the person who posted it and then go follow them and then become huge fan of their content? Versus how many of them do you see and then you laugh and share it with people and then immediately scroll on and you don’t know who posted it. In your mind right now, you couldn’t even think about who posted that video, who shared that video? You have no idea who they are, you have no idea what they do, you don’t know if they’re a business, you don’t know they’re an individual, nothing.


0:39:33.2 Jordan Syatt: So what people are doing is they’re trying to copy the viral video strategy, when the reality is the viral video strategy is not the strategy that’s gonna help you build your business. Your business is not… If your goal is to try and get more views and likes… It’s like your goal is trying to get more Monopoly money, it’s a terrible, terrible strategy. And so what I was going to say initially was, you should really be developing your writing skills. And you can use them on any platform, but especially a platform like Instagram, where in a social media world in which you believe that video rules… Which by the way, I think video is amazing, I love using the videos, and I think that it is the pinnacle of being able to build depth, and it’s incredibly… It takes a lot of skill and a lot of time and effort. But the goal isn’t to get hundreds of thousands of likes and followers, I promise you, if you get 20 to 50 people reading your captions and reading your posts, that is infinitely better than getting 100,000 people to watch a viral video that is stupid and means nothing and has no bearing on your long-term business. And I would rather, even though Instagram at this point in time is not pushing written content as much as it is video content, the written content actually has far less competition than the video content, the video content has so much more competition.


0:41:12.7 Jordan Syatt: So even if you’re trying to make the video content, it’s so much more difficult for you to get seen, whereas when you have the written content, it’s not gonna be pushed to as many people, but more of the people who see it will actually consume it, and it’s such an important thing to understand. So I’ve been doing a lot of written content, I will always do a lot of written content, no matter what written content for me is how I started, it’s how I’ve built my business is how I sustain my business. The written content is everything, and yes, I also use video now, but I’ve developed that over the years, and I think that we’ve reached a point now where a lot of people are just getting in the industry are immediately going for video and forgoing their writing skills. And if you develop your writing skills and you have really great written content, you are going to be… You’re gonna have such a more flexible approach and you’re gonna have more opportunities to reach more people, keep their attention, develop a relationship with them. I just really think trying to go for this viral video trend is a fucking…


0:42:19.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s a disguise. It’s a mask. It’s like a ninja trick. You’re confused. You’re confused in thinking that going for the viral video is gonna massively help your business when the reality is it could not be further from the truth. I would rather you get 27 likes from people who love your written shit than 100,000 likes from people who saw the video and will never follow you again for it, it’s just… It’s really important.


0:42:48.6 Mike Vacanti: Spot-on. I would argue that you could also say that it’s not just video versus written content, but it’s also seven-second attempt to be viral video versus a video that is more boring and bland, but educational, having 30 or 50 people watch a boring educational clip, video, whatever it is compared to hundreds of thousands of people watch some short, entertaining, viral-style video, it’s way better to have… There’s a quote that, “what matters more than how many followers you have is who is following you” and you want people following you for the right reasons, which is… There are a lot of examples of this, but as a coach, you ideally want people following you so that they can improve their health and fitness or some aspect of it, to be educated rather than people who aren’t.


0:43:50.1 Mike Vacanti: Because the people who are following you for other reasons aren’t gonna sign up for coaching. And my mind even recent behavior from way back several days ago when I was still scrolling, there was a clip, I don’t remember if it was like a Peter Attia, Rhonda Patrick or it might have been from this Dr. Gundry, Dr. Mike, Dr. Danielle Belardo. It was from one of those podcasts, it was a short clip, it maybe had like 50 or 60 likes on it from a big channel, I don’t remember, but I found what they were talking about fascinating. Which made me search for that specific conversation, which made me then watch, I don’t know, 45 minutes of a long-form piece of content when it wasn’t a well performing clip for that channel, it wasn’t like a viral or flashy or anything. It was just interesting to me, which led to me consuming the long form content, which is one of the main reasons why we make short-form content so that they can find our long form content, build more depth there, and so…


0:44:51.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I love the tactic that you shared on that one.


0:44:57.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, it’s so important. And the other thing about it is the writing is just such… You’re always gonna need writing, you’ll always need writing, whether it’s an email, communications with clients, whether it’s an email with your email marketing and captions, sales, like you’ll always need writing. Long before I ever really did videos everything was done via writing, and yes, you could do a long form sales pages with video content instead, you can do that. Most people are not gonna be able to do that. The vast majority of people, especially nowadays, with how video is structured and how editing becomes so much more important and all of that, video sales, is the all time most difficult to do. Which I’m not saying don’t do it, but I am saying, “you’re always gonna need writing” and developing your writing skills will help your camera skills, it’ll help your video skills, it’ll help everything. And so well all right how do you develop your writing? When you make an Instagram post, you fucking sit down and you write… I don’t care if you made a whole video explaining it cool, now explain it in the caption.


0:46:15.3 Jordan Syatt: And make it really, really good and add more context and nuance to it. When you’re writing emails to your email list, when you’re writing to your clients, I think I developed my writing… I started developing it for writing articles for my website long form. I think my writing became the best when it was for Instagram because there was a limit to how many characters I can have, and it essentially forced me to write articles in the most brief, concise way that I possibly could… And I would routinely max out how many… My Instagram caption, I would max it out all the time, which meant that I would have to chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop it down without giving up too much nuance, and so writing is just… And now it’s actually cool ’cause you can do the writing where you can write and make it an Instagram post, whether it’s a tweet, you can do long-form Tweet style thread, thread, thread throughout the red… Those things work super well. There’s so much that you can do and then you can… If you wanna take that viral video style where we say that seven to 15-second video, and then what you could do is you could have a video of you working out or you could… Whatever it is, and then just put their writing on top of it, and…


0:47:44.5 Jordan Syatt: If you can make that understandable, and a lot of you can explain nuance in that while still having that viral video, the thing is that this is good luck making that go viral, that doesn’t really have the recipe… Nuance is not the recipe for virality it’s the exact opposite. Virality, it generally requires bold, blanket statement claims or something outrageously hilarious. Whereas the stuff that we push as great coaches is generally simple, basic, straightforward, no-nonsense information designed to help people that’s not the recipe for virality. So stop trying to go viral and start really appreciating the small number of people who see your stuff, because that’s what’s gonna lead to a great, great, great business over the long-term. Not the viral stuff.


0:48:38.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, Rome was not built in a day. 100%. Great episode.


0:48:46.2 Jordan Syatt: Is that it?


0:48:47.4 Mike Vacanti: Well, no, we’re gonna ping-pong back real quick here. You got any power breakfast? Power snacks, power dinners, anything new to share? People really like the power meals, and I feel like if we… I have one off the top of my mind, which is a power snack, could be used as a power breakfast, I don’t. I’ve been using it as a power bedtime snack, which is a fiber cereal with vanilla Core Power, 42-gram protein shake, like half of it or two-thirds of it into the fiber cereal.


0:49:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Dialed. Super good. I love that. Yeah, recently… So my breakfast has stayed the same for a super long time. I have the Bran Buds with some berries, blackberries, blueberries, whatever. I did start adding in the last few days, I just wanted a little bit of a change, so I still have the same thing I just added… So I took out some of the Bran Buds by a fifth and I replaced it with Grape-Nuts cereal. So I just add a little bit of Grape-Nuts and it’s like super crunchy and I just adds good texture to it, which I really like as well. My wife, I need to get this recipe, she made something the other day… You would love this. She found a recipe online for making your own pizza at home, and I’ve always been a very questionable of those things… I don’t know if I trust that. It’s a recipe with Greek yogurt and something else.


0:50:19.7 Jordan Syatt: As soon as I heard, I was like, “This is not gonna be good.” Just ’cause when people try and make a healthy something that’s really not usually healthy, and they try and make it healthy, it’s like, “All right, I’d rather just eat the regular thing.” But bro, this pizza was incredible. It was the crust was amazing, she did it in the air fryer, it was… I think she did it in the air fryer. I might have said that wrong, I don’t know, I need to check, but it was a Greek yogurt and something, so high protein. The best part was it wasn’t greasy at all, so the crust was amazing, it was like legit thin crust pizza and super high protein. I wouldn’t say it was low calorie, I’d say each slice was probably about the same as a regular pizza slice in terms of calories, but way higher protein and way lower fat, and so… Yeah, the crust was amazing. And it wasn’t greasy. I was like, man, that was awesome. I’m really getting on her to make more of that ’cause that was ridiculous.


0:51:19.2 Mike Vacanti: Nice, sounds great.


0:51:22.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, and I’ve been waking up and I have a beet juice, carrot juice, some water coffee, I got like four drinks out in front of me every morning.


0:51:29.8 Mike Vacanti: What’s the thesis on beet juice and carrot juice for you?


0:51:34.4 Jordan Syatt: So I like carrot juice, I could drink that a lot, and I really love carrot juice with ginger. When I was living in Israel, they have these fresh fruit and vegetable stands that you could… All over the place, everywhere in Israel, you can’t go 20 feet without going by a stand to squeeze you fresh fruits or vegetable juice, and so every morning I would get this fresh squeezed carrot juice with ginger. And that was at a point in my life when I was like 18, 19, when I was like, “Oh, this has magical health and healing properties,” and I was doing it because of that. And now that I know better, I just understand is just fucking carrot juice and ginger, but it actually… I love the taste, so I’m not doing it for any other reason, I just love the taste and the beet juice… You know, I’m copying you.


0:52:30.2 Mike Vacanti: And you like the taste, I assume. The beet juice I only drink pre-workout for additional blood flow.


0:52:36.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I actually drink it post-work out for additional blood flow.


0:52:39.3 Mike Vacanti: Well, it’s got sugar in it, so a nice little… Get some protein and beet juice post work out.


0:52:42.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:52:43.6 Mike Vacanti: We gotta bring back the anabolic window. We might bring that back in 2024 too.


0:52:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Should we do that? Should we make a huge push for…




0:52:55.8 Mike Vacanti: We’ll see. One week at a time. Thank you very much for listening. We hope your new year’s off to a great start. Weekly uploads every single week of 2024. Let’s get it.


0:53:08.5 Jordan Syatt: Except maybe Christmas week.


0:53:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Honestly, if I don’t scroll for the whole year for sure 52 episodes. Maybe more.


0:53:14.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude. All right, sick. Thanks for listening. We appreciate you. Have a wonderful day. Have a great New Year. We’ll talk to you soon.

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