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In this episode, we discuss the perfect sleeping position—and if you haven’t watched on YT or Spotify, you need to because Mike gives a legitimate video demonstration of how to set up your pillows for the perfect night’s sleep. We also talk about the best advice we could give to our younger selves, how to deal with client demands, and more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:10.4 Mike Vacanti: Hello Jordan.


0:00:12.6 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, Michael?


0:00:13.6 Mike Vacanti: I feel great.


0:00:14.6 Jordan Syatt: I can tell you just had a good workout.


0:00:16.1 Mike Vacanti: Had a great workout. Had a week and a half in Florida. I’m ready to go.


0:00:21.2 Jordan Syatt: When are you gonna move to Florida though? When’s that happening?


0:00:24.2 Mike Vacanti: I’ve been thinking about that for the last 48 hours, and unfortunately not for a number of years, I don’t think, but it’s in the works.


0:00:32.6 Jordan Syatt: Well, I think that it would be better if you did. You love it there. That’s like where you belong.


0:00:38.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I do love it. Sun, beach, water. I had a very interesting observation. So this is… What do we call this segment? I can’t prove this, but, or maybe just like…


0:00:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. We’re jumping right in.


0:00:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, no, it’s just me riffing on something from my trip.


0:00:57.5 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:00:58.1 Mike Vacanti: Or not even that, but just pontificating on anti-science things.


0:01:03.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:01:03.4 Mike Vacanti: So it seems that annually, here, let’s start here. I have really good lighting in my bathroom mirror, I realized, because for the last number of months, I feel like I look great. Like anytime I see myself, I’m like, “Yep, I look great.” And then remember that moment on the beach a year ago where I was like, “What happened to me?”


0:01:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Mh-hmm, yep.


0:01:30.7 Mike Vacanti: It happened again this year.


0:01:30.8 Jordan Syatt: In Florida, when you were on the beach?


0:01:33.8 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm. It was on the beach after a month of like Christmas cookie degeneracy, [laughter] followed by five Chewy bars at night, like a solid December 12th to January 12th of, yeah, just degenerate nutritional behavior, gluttonous behavior on my part. And I was like, “Man, I really thought I looked good. And I got to dial things in.”


0:01:54.8 Jordan Syatt: Were you’re just looking down or were you looking in a mirror?


0:01:57.9 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, no. I’m not an idiot. I’m not looking down at skin folds and thinking I’m fat. Like this isn’t 2006. I understand, okay.


0:02:04.4 Jordan Syatt: I’m just wondering like where the vantage point was.


0:02:07.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, every angle, all angles.


0:02:10.3 Jordan Syatt: Got it, all angles. Yeah. Were your clothes fitting differently?


0:02:16.6 Mike Vacanti: No, not really because it’s like low ab and low back is where like love handle kind of, it’s all relative. I get it. But off of my norm, I’m like, “This is unacceptable.” So somewhat intentionally, somewhat unintentionally, I dial things in, like start eating more reasonably, only have one serving of dessert at night, like eat nutritious food throughout the day, probably end up in a slight deficit some of the days and my sleep got so much better.


0:02:52.0 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.


0:02:52.5 Mike Vacanti: I started remembering dreams for the first time in months. And instead of sleeping nine or 10 hours, I would sleep seven hours and wake up feeling fresh and ready to go.


0:03:02.7 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Well, that’s awesome. Is it just like less sugar? Less, like what was that, the thing that you think you reduced most overall?


0:03:12.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s definitely the thing that I reduced the most. I don’t know the cause and that’s why this is going in our anti-science or, “I can’t prove this, but… “, section. Because I had always thought my sleep quality was better if I had two bowls of cinnamon toast crunch right before bed. And I thought that because if I wanted to, I could sleep longer. I could sleep in. Yeah, there’s something interesting there, with the dream thing too, like having very vivid dreams every single night.


0:03:44.2 Jordan Syatt: That was something… I didn’t even realize that was like a marker to look out for. Like whether or not I remember my dreams.


0:03:46.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, it’s not.


0:03:48.5 Jordan Syatt: Because sometimes I’ll have a super-vivid dream, but I won’t remember it. But like, I don’t know, that was vivid, but I’ll be like, I still don’t know what the hell it was. Like I never even thought about like, does remembering it make a difference?


0:04:01.4 Mike Vacanti: Look, it’s definitely not a marker. And that’s why we’re talking about it here because it’s just a correlation that I picked up on. And there’s…


0:04:08.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What were your dreams about?


0:04:14.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. My dreams are weird, man. I don’t even know. I can’t…


0:04:15.7 Jordan Syatt: Dreams are wild.


0:04:17.3 Mike Vacanti: I just woke up every day remembering some dreams, knowing that I was dreaming throughout the night versus it being like a gluttonous comatose of elevated insulin. And like, who knows what was going on during my sleep. There was something physiologically different in my brain while I was sleeping.


0:04:34.0 Jordan Syatt: I bet you were working out in your dream. I bet you were like lifting, like pumping iron. You were just getting these great workouts in. [laughter]


0:04:41.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know that I’ve ever had…


0:04:41.3 Jordan Syatt: You’re like, “God, that was vivid.” [laughter]


0:04:43.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think I’ve ever had a dream like that before. My dreams aren’t like real life.


0:04:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s like…


0:04:52.8 Mike Vacanti: No one wants to hear us talk about our dreams. Dreams are just weird.


0:04:54.6 Jordan Syatt: I bet they do. I want to hear about your dreams.


0:04:57.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, I don’t remember and I don’t even know how to explain them.


0:05:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Got it, okay.


0:05:02.3 Mike Vacanti: We could start keeping dream journals if you wanted.


0:05:04.4 Jordan Syatt: No, I like rarely remember them, but I rarely remember anything. So I feel like that’s not odd for me.


0:05:10.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s not even remembering versus knowing that I dreamt versus just being like dead at night.


0:05:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Has your wife ever been mad at you for a dream that she had?


0:05:23.7 Mike Vacanti: Versions of that for sure, but not like that exact thing. But, why? Has yours?


0:05:29.7 Jordan Syatt: Well, I’m just thinking about dreams and like that just popped in my head. Like, yeah, my wife has woken up upset with me because of something I’ve done in a dream. And I’ll be like, “You realize that that didn’t actually happen, right?” [laughter]


0:05:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:05:45.9 Jordan Syatt: And she’ll be like, “Yeah, I know, but like, I’m just in a really bad mood.” [laughter]


0:05:54.2 Mike Vacanti: Are you walking us into like a masculine, feminine polarity driven by feelings versus not driven by feelings type of conversation that you want to have or just…


0:06:04.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I could… If you want to, I wasn’t planning on it. That was more just like dream talk. What’s something funny that happens with dreams? “Oh, my wife does this sometimes.” And that’s it. And I was thinking like, I don’t remember my dreams, but like my wife will wake up and she’ll like remember that vividly. So yeah, I had no like…


0:06:21.1 Mike Vacanti: Intention.


0:06:21.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:06:22.5 Mike Vacanti: I got you.


0:06:23.1 Jordan Syatt: But you’re dialed now, you’re on point. I feel like you’ve been on point for like a month straight.


0:06:28.3 Mike Vacanti: No, no. I’ve been on point for two weeks.


0:06:31.9 Jordan Syatt: And you feel good? How does your skin feel?


0:06:35.0 Mike Vacanti: My skin?


0:06:35.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny, you were saying that like, you must have like good lighting in your bathroom, and I was imagining at that point that you were going to go down like my skin wasn’t good from like a degenerate.


0:06:44.7 Mike Vacanti: Bro, if I ever start complaining about like my complexion as a 36-year-old man or telling you that like… [laughter] Something about my skin, you’re gonna check me.


0:06:54.5 Jordan Syatt: You ever notice differences in your skin, like based on how you eat or drink or anything?


0:06:58.0 Mike Vacanti: No, I don’t pay attention to my skin.


0:07:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:07:01.5 Mike Vacanti: And I am always drinking water.


0:07:02.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re super-hydrated.


0:07:04.6 Mike Vacanti: No, when I was talking about the mirror, I was talking about the mirror, like, physique.


0:07:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, how you look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Body fat levels, all that. Yeah.


0:07:13.7 Mike Vacanti: You’re living with two women in the… Well, a woman and a girl in the suburbs.


0:07:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I know.


0:07:20.0 Mike Vacanti: If you’re thinking about skin like that, you’re…


0:07:24.1 Jordan Syatt: I mean, not even that. It’s more just, I’ve noticed that as I’ve gotten older, if I’m drinking alcohol, my skin has immediate effects like overnight, and it never used to be like that. And I’m not… Dude, I’m not like thinking about… I don’t even know what complexion means. But I know…


0:07:43.2 Mike Vacanti: It means like you feel pimples or not.


0:07:45.4 Jordan Syatt: No, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m not talking about pimples. My skin gets like dry to the point where like, literally it burns. It’s so dry that it burns next to my nose if I drink alcohol. And so it’s like I’m not…


0:08:00.4 Mike Vacanti: So it’s not vanity, it’s like physical discomfort.


0:08:02.8 Jordan Syatt: No, it physically hurts dude, like legit, if I drink. It’s not like a glass of wine, but if I start drinking, like drinking drinking, probably upwards of two glasses of wine or a couple of hard drinks in the next day, I will wake up and my face will hurt, which is just very odd. It’s just never happened before. And actually, I meant to Google this. I was thinking about it yesterday, I was wondering if there’s any allergies to alcohol, I meant to Google that. I didn’t do it yet. But definitely something that’s new for me. So I was wondering if the way you eat ever affects that.


0:08:42.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m sorry, I completely misunderstood your question. No, nothing like that has ever happened to me. And that’s strange. I feel like…


0:08:53.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, right?


0:08:54.6 Mike Vacanti: Not concerning, but I would, I don’t know, maybe ask someone about that.


0:09:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I mean, not concerning. Don’t panic. [laughter]


0:09:04.6 Mike Vacanti: Well, I know you so I didn’t want you to… [laughter] Yeah, I did not know that’s what you meant.


0:09:11.7 Jordan Syatt: I mean, your skin looks great. Just so you know, it looks really good. What do you weigh right now?


0:09:15.7 Mike Vacanti: What do I weigh?


0:09:16.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, what do you weigh?


0:09:17.1 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I don’t weigh myself. Gary asked me this. He’s like, “What do you weigh in?” I don’t step on the scale.


0:09:23.6 Jordan Syatt: Never?


0:09:23.6 Mike Vacanti: I just kind of looking… Well, if I’m in a deliberate fat loss phase and I want to track progress, sure. But if I’m just kind of slowly gaining muscle, not really tracking or don’t have any serious fitness goals at the time, no, I’m not weighing in consistently.


0:09:39.8 Jordan Syatt: When was the last time you weighed yourself?


0:09:41.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, so that’s what I’m getting to, is I did weigh myself, partly, because Gary asked and I wanted to tell him. [laughter] And also, because I was curious like, “Oh, where am I at here?” The highest I saw was 182.


0:10:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:10:01.8 Mike Vacanti: And I think that was after a few… Like a day or two of non-degeneracy. So probably 185.


0:10:08.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. So you waited to be on point for a couple of days for it. [laughter]


0:10:13.7 Mike Vacanti: No, no, I didn’t. It was when…


0:10:16.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, oh. It was just the day he asked.


0:10:16.3 Mike Vacanti: That was just the day he asked.


0:10:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you do it while he was on the phone with you?


0:10:19.1 Mike Vacanti: No, just later that day.


0:10:21.6 Jordan Syatt: Got it.


0:10:22.1 Mike Vacanti: So that was afternoon. But I had already been a little bit dialed. And now I think I’m 176 in the morning.


0:10:30.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, geez, you got rid of all that water real fast.


0:10:35.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yep.


0:10:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Did Gary ask you to weigh yourself recently? Was this like when you were in Florida?


0:10:39.2 Mike Vacanti: I think it might have been right before I left, I weighed.


0:10:45.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, so you had a scale in Florida that you checked on? Got it. Okay.


0:10:47.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:10:48.2 Jordan Syatt: You should have done the thing where you put your toe against the wall and then like 150 and then showed him the 150 but then like, “Psych, my toe’s against the wall.” Then showed him the truth. [laughter]


0:11:01.9 Mike Vacanti: That would have been good. [laughter] “Two can play this game.”


0:11:04.0 Jordan Syatt: I think I’m like probably like 150… Between 152 to 154 in that range.


0:11:12.0 Mike Vacanti: And how are you feeling?


0:11:14.1 Jordan Syatt: Performance-wise I feel great. I was thinking about this the other day, like yesterday. By the other day, I mean yesterday. I was running, and I was my Zone 2. For 45 minutes, I was running at 6 miles per hour on the treadmill, just like easy Zone 2, and it just felt no problem whatsoever, which was great. So performance felt really good.


0:11:37.0 Mike Vacanti: All the stretching and mobility has helped, you think? Not in terms of endurance, but in terms of just like, how you felt while running, joints?


0:11:46.6 Jordan Syatt: No, honestly, I think it’s just more like the extra carbs. I think it’s just the extra carbs made my… Because I put on some weight, right? Like when I did the… When I did the… What’s it called? That like blood sugar challenge where I spent my blood sugar every day, and I lost like 12 pounds. And I was like low 140s. And now I’ve gained like 10 pounds.


0:12:06.5 Mike Vacanti: Sure, it is.


0:12:08.0 Jordan Syatt: But I feel… I perform way better. So I’m definitely fatter than I want to be. I think I could drop two to four pounds. And that’s probably ideal for me. So get to like 150 and I’ll be good. But yeah, the holidays and all of that. But like in terms of performance, I feel great. In terms of fatness, I feel a little bit fatter than I’d like to be. But overall, I feel really good.


0:12:34.1 Mike Vacanti: Have you been doing a good amount of cardio? I had thought your focus recently, at least in the last handful of weeks, had been very much stretching and mobility.


0:12:45.3 Jordan Syatt: It is, but I usually do minimum 20 but usually 30 of Zone 2, five to six days a week right now.


0:12:54.9 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:12:55.6 Jordan Syatt: Unless I’m traveling, which I was just traveling for a couple days, but because I do that before I stretch, so I’ll warm up with some Zone 2 for minimum 20, but usually 30. And then yesterday, I had got back from that trip. And I was like, “I just want to move.” So I just went for about like 45 minutes, I was like, “I just want to get some extra movement in.” And I just felt really good. By the time I hit 30 minutes, I was like… You know what I was watching? I was watching that Andrew Schulz YouTube video that like the compilation. Oh, the video of like, where he was picking on those two people in the front row that I sent you. And then from there, I got a recommendation for like a 30-minute compilation of his best moments from 2023. So I just watched that. And I was like, “I’m just going to keep watching this and I’ll keep running.” And it actually made the run go by so, so fast, just watching his stand-up, like some of his best moments was amazing. So yeah, usually, I do Zone 2 almost every single day. But before it was between like 45 minutes to an hour, and now it’s between like 20 to 30 minutes, usually. And I use that as my warm up before stretching.


0:13:56.7 Mike Vacanti: Which 30 times 7, 210, like 3 1/2 hours a week of Zone 2 is more than enough to…


0:14:03.5 Jordan Syatt: Play.


0:14:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Get ample heart health longevity benefits.


0:14:09.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. That’s exactly right.


0:14:11.9 Mike Vacanti: And that’s the primary reason that you’ll keep a Zone 2 base, even if you don’t have like any kind of immediate cardio performance goals on the horizon is for health.


0:14:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Literally just health. Like that’s it, just health. I just want my blood moving through my body. I just want just that heart pumping. I just want to keep it going.


0:14:33.3 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I love it.


0:14:33.4 Jordan Syatt: Just all health. That’s really it. And I just feel better, dude. I feel so much better. I literally just finished right now. I did about 30 minutes of Zone 2 watching this… Oh, which reminds me. I’ve been meaning to talk to you about this. I’ve been watching that Roman Empire thing while I’ve been doing Zone 2 as well. And Zone 2 just makes me feel great. And it’s nice because I get that warm up before the stretching and the stretching, dude, is so intense. It’s not just sitting there static stretching. Like for example, I was doing Zercher Horse Stance, Zercher squats yesterday. And fucking A dude, like it’s brutal, like increasing mobility in this way is absolutely devastatingly difficult. And it’s nice because I know the reasoning behind it, there are many different reasons, but static stretching is like… It works and it’s great, but you don’t get any strength benefits from it. This style of mobility work is inherently strength-based and improved mobility at the same time, which is just… It’s a really horrifying combination. And the work has been brutal, but also super, super effective and more time-efficient. But speaking of the Roman Empire, I remember we had spoken about Commodus by the… When we had spoken about Commodus, I hadn’t finished. I had like just started. And so I finished the whole season with Commodus. And I forget what your question was. But man, Commodus was wild, dude.


0:16:04.2 Mike Vacanti: Really?


0:16:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude. He was crazy.


0:16:08.1 Mike Vacanti: Then Joaquin Phoenix did a great job.


0:16:09.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah, yeah, he did. He did do an amazing job.


0:16:12.9 Mike Vacanti: Trying to sleep with his sister throughout the entire show.


0:16:16.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, shit. Yeah. Did he do that? No, he didn’t. He had his sister killed. Because to be fair, his sister had tried to kill him. [laughter]


0:16:24.8 Mike Vacanti: To be fair.


0:16:26.3 Jordan Syatt: To be fair. Commodus’ sister was pissed because she was older than Commodus. And she was super… Like she really wanted to be the leader of Rome. She was like… Was very power-hungry. And so when their father died… Actually, as soon as Commodus was born, she was like 10 years older than Commodus. So as soon as Commodus is born, she essentially gets thrust to the side and be like, “All right, well, here’s my son. So he’s going to be the one that takes over.” And so she feels immediately when she’s like 10 years old from then on that Commodus just gets the limelight and everyone likes Commodus and Commodus is going to inherit everything. And so she gets thrust to the side. So once he takes power, she essentially tries to assassinate him and fails.


0:17:14.2 Mike Vacanti: Were there female emperors of Roman?


0:17:17.1 Jordan Syatt: No, no.


0:17:17.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay, so she just thought it was her right as firstborn, even though that wasn’t the custom?


0:17:25.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I mean, she was very power-hungry and very smart. And she was very good at… She had super-high contacts within the Senate. And she was like… She was really, really good. And so in her mind, she was like, “I’m gonna do this.” And I should clarify, I don’t know if there were female emperors before, but I’m almost positive that there were not. But, so the whole thing fails. And then he ends up sending her I think to Capri, which is a couple of 100 miles away from Rome in an isolated island. And then he has her killed there. And he just got increasingly more and more and more paranoid that people were trying to kill him, which the more I’m learning about it, apparently, that’s a huge thing for people in power, because everyone’s trying to kill them all the time. So like every Roman emperor is paranoid, every single one, because people are caught… And poison is a huge cause of death at this point, because it’s so easy to use and it’s hard to trace and someone close to you… It was nuts, but people are being poisoned all the time. And so even Marcus Aurelius told Commodus, he’s like, “Don’t trust the Senate. Don’t trust anyone. Everyone’s gonna wanna kill you, take your power.”


0:18:35.5 Jordan Syatt: But then, dude, Commodus literally signs up to fight in the games. Commodus signs up to fight as a Gladiator, which is like just crazy. Commodus was just like, “All right, if I wanna win over the people… ” And he was obsessed with what people thought of him and how they viewed him. He was like, “I’m going to be a gladiator.” And he hired the best gladiator of that time to train him. And I sort of don’t wanna spoil what happened in case you wanna watch it or in case someone wants to watch it. There was other stuff going on. But he literally entered the gladiator games as emperor, which is just nuts. [laughter]


0:19:15.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s what happened in Gladiator.


0:19:17.7 Jordan Syatt: Crazy.


0:19:19.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So did he kill his dad in real life?


0:19:23.5 Jordan Syatt: No, he did not kill his dad. His father died naturally.


0:19:28.9 Mike Vacanti: But his father wanted him to be emperor?


0:19:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Yeah.


0:19:32.3 Mike Vacanti: So Ridley Scott took a lot of creative license in that one?


0:19:35.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct, assuming… And I would… I have no reason to believe that the documentary isn’t accurate, but assuming this documentary is accurate, there was significant creative license.


0:19:45.7 Mike Vacanti: I forget the name of the theory or whatever it is. But basically when you have expertise in one area and you see something like a documentary, for example, put out around nutrition, for example… And you’re like, “Oh, this is complete bullshit.” Like a “What the Health”, or. And then it makes you think like, “Oh, okay. Well, what about these other documentaries…


0:20:09.5 Jordan Syatt: Exactly. Yeah.


0:20:10.0 Mike Vacanti: In areas I’m unfamiliar with?” So I’m sure it’s reasonably accurate, but you almost have to take everything with a grain of salt.


0:20:15.5 Jordan Syatt: I would imagine there are historians that would completely disagree with that, because they show historians saying this and this and this, but in “What the Health” and everything, they have nutritionists that are completely agreeing with it. So I guarantee there are historians that are like, “That’s not true. That didn’t happen at all.” So I’m sure, I’m absolutely sure. But they’ve done a great job with the documentary series. Like it’s super well done.


0:20:33.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s enjoyable. What’s the name of it?


0:20:36.9 Jordan Syatt: And the guy who plays Commodus is fucking shredded. Like dude, like put in work. He’s absolutely shredded. I think it’s called…


0:20:48.2 Mike Vacanti: Natty. Does he look Natty?


0:20:48.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, he looks natty. I mean, he looks natty just like super lean, but a significant amount of lean mass as well. It’s just called Roman Empire on Netflix, and I think there’s three seasons.


0:21:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh. This is a show, not a documentary.


0:21:02.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But like, it looks like a documentary-style show.


0:21:06.5 Mike Vacanti: Oh, is it? Okay.


0:21:07.6 Jordan Syatt: I mean, they’ve… Essentially, what they’ve got going on is they have historians coming in, giving their opinion and they’ve hired actors to act out the scenes, but it’s narrated like a documentary is, and they have historians coming in, but then it’s also… They have the show version as well, which is… It’s really cool. It’s like it’s super well done.


0:21:27.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t see any shirtless, but shoulders and arms look quite natty. Good for him. Speaking of entertainment, have you seen Season One of True Detective?


0:21:38.3 Jordan Syatt: No. Is it good?


0:21:40.7 Mike Vacanti: Bro, have you ever seen the memes or the gifts of Matthew McConaughey where he’s like quite frail looking and he’s smoking a cigarette and he looks like he’s cracked out of his mind?


0:21:52.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Is that from that?


0:21:55.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s from True Detective Season One with…


0:21:56.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. I did hear that.


0:21:57.0 Mike Vacanti: McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, is that his name? Guy from White Men Can’t Jump.


0:22:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.


0:22:03.0 Mike Vacanti: Unbelievable show. It’s only eight episodes.


0:22:05.9 Jordan Syatt: Really?


0:22:07.1 Mike Vacanti: I finished it last night, I can’t believe, 2014. So 10 years ago. I can’t believe I didn’t know about this. It’s very good.


0:22:14.2 Jordan Syatt: And how many seasons are there?


0:22:16.3 Mike Vacanti: There’s a bunch of seasons, but it’s one of those where it looks like every season is…


0:22:18.1 Jordan Syatt: They change the cast and everything?


0:22:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.


0:22:19.1 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay. All right. You binged it?


0:22:22.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I watched it in a short period of time.


0:22:25.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay. All right. I’ll watch that. That’ll be next.


0:22:29.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s really good.


0:22:32.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Do you ever watch Narcos?


0:22:33.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I think I did, Netflix?


0:22:34.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I just started watching that, actually, like a month ago. My wife and I watched the first episode and got super in it and I haven’t watched the second one yet, but yeah. Really good so far.


0:22:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Should we dive in?


0:22:46.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, let’s do it.


0:22:46.6 Mike Vacanti: Oh. Actually I got an email we’re gonna read first.


0:22:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Cool.


0:22:51.2 Mike Vacanti: From Kristin. So, no question here, just a quick email, “Hey, Jordan and Mike, don’t worry, no cold calling here. Just wanted to chime in as a Canadian who loves talking about hockey, Go Leafs Go. Big fan of the hockey talk from the Jan 23rd pod, I wanted to recommend a documentary…” Speaking of documentaries.


0:23:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice.


0:23:06.6 Mike Vacanti: “That does a deep dive into the role of the enforcer/fighter in hockey. The NHL game is… “


0:23:12.8 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been wondering about this. [laughter]


0:23:15.0 Mike Vacanti: “The NHL game as you see it today, is totally different than hockey from the ’90s, the culture of violence was part of the game and the sport thrived on fighting. See Don Cherry’s Rock’em Sock’em Vids. I wanted to recommend a documentary called The Last Gladiators, 2011, Netflix. It’s a cool look at the culture of fighting hockey and the guys who took on the role of Team Enforcer. I don’t think you have to be a hockey fan to enjoy this one. It does touch on other relevant aspects of the sport, concussions, mental health and life after the sport hockey talk or not. Thanks for the consistency. Great weekly content from your number one Leafs fan, Kristin.” Thanks for the email, Kristin.


0:23:51.9 Jordan Syatt: Kristin, awesome. I love that.


0:23:52.8 Mike Vacanti: Good recommendation.


0:23:53.2 Jordan Syatt: That just got me hyped up, got me hyped up. And I sent you a sick video this morning of this guy on a hockey team, just… And I think his name… It was number 25. He was just going around and like going to everybody on the team trying to fight…


0:24:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Out of his mind.


0:24:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Everybody. [laughter]


0:24:08.2 Mike Vacanti: Like dove into the opposing team’s bench. [laughter] Insane.


0:24:13.1 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny because in mixed martial arts, the worst thing that you can call a fan is casual. Like, “Oh, you’re such a casual.” And so that just means that you’re… You don’t really know what you’re talking about. So in terms of hockey, I’m a casual, I just don’t really understand very much. But I love it. And one of the comments that I see in the comment section from people who know more than I do is what Kristin was talking about. How it used to be like… A player, nowadays, wouldn’t survive in the ’90s because the fight culture is just so much different in the ’90s. So it’s like so much more intense. And whereas now, apparently, it’s not nearly as much like what Kristin was saying. So I wanna watch that documentary.


0:24:53.5 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. Yeah. That probably makes sense. I just remember none of the superstars, like Gretzky, Lemieux, none of those guys had to deal with the physicality, like Sidney Crosby did over the course of his career, for example.


0:25:12.0 Jordan Syatt: Got it.


0:25:13.0 Mike Vacanti: But I mean, that’s very likely due to enforcer culture, but also just like I don’t know, respect for the game or some kind of… Something different.


0:25:23.4 Jordan Syatt: But it sucks to be one of the shitty players, just constantly getting hit. [laughter]


0:25:29.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But constantly getting hit to play a game. You may or may not love to make a lot of money…


0:25:34.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude are you playing hockey? Are you gonna join a league or what?


0:25:38.8 Mike Vacanti: I wanna skate…


0:25:39.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, real moment.


0:25:42.2 Mike Vacanti: Outside, but it’s too… I know, I did. I want to skate outside a little bit, but we don’t have ice here because it’s 40 degrees in January, so.


0:25:48.8 Jordan Syatt: Get your roller blades on, Mighty Ducks it. [laughter] Mighty Ducks.


0:25:54.1 Mike Vacanti: We’ll see. Yeah. I gotta get on the ice. It’s also really good cardio, so there’s that benefit.


0:26:02.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:26:02.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Do you wanna Q&A it?


0:26:03.6 Jordan Syatt: All right, so here’s one. This is from Margo. Margo’s in the mentorship.


0:26:06.7 Mike Vacanti: What’s up Margo?


0:26:10.2 Jordan Syatt: She put it in my Q&A and I remember… [laughter] I remember being like, “I wanna answer this one.” But I was on a plane in the airport and I was like, “I wanna spend time, actually, thinking about this.” So Margo just asked in the Q&A, she said, “What’s one thing you would tell your younger self?” And there’s a lot of room with this, right? Depending on how young, depending on what realm you want to talk about. So there’s a lot of places we can go at this. Do you wanna you wanna kick this one off?


0:26:38.9 Mike Vacanti: You lead us off. She asked you.


0:26:42.0 Jordan Syatt: Well, she asked both of us because we’re reading in the Q&A and she probably knew. She was like, “All right. They go through the Q&As.” Margo’s killing it. Margo’s making some great content. @maxwellfitness__, shout out Margo. Okay. What’s one thing you would tell your younger self? Man, so my thought immediately goes to… The first thing I have to realize is, if I’m talking about like 18-year-old me, it’s gonna be very difficult to get 18-year-old me to believe what I’m saying about anything. ‘Cause the 18-year-old me was super… Like, “I know everything.” That was just where I was when I was 18. So I am thinking that, I don’t know why this is the first thing that comes to mind, but it’s gonna be the first thing to say. And then I’ll caveat it as well.


0:27:39.7 Jordan Syatt: But if I could really instill something in 18-year-old me, it would probably be more something along the lines of like, “Hey, stop taking things so seriously.” I was overly just like, “Everything has to be serious. Everything has to be serious.” And whether it was what someone said to me or what someone said about me, or about my attitude towards whatever I was doing, about what I was trying to… It was just like, “Ah, it’s so serious. It’s so serious. Everything is so serious.” And for example, and this is actually gonna go against what I’m saying right now, but I remember the only things that I read at that time were just fitness stuff. It was just fitness, all fitness. Science, fitness, nutrition, strength, training power. And I don’t regret that at all by the way. I remember my mom being like, “Why don’t you try reading something else?”


0:28:29.3 Jordan Syatt: And I was like, “I don’t want to. I really don’t want to.” I wasn’t interested in anything else, so I wouldn’t change that. I wouldn’t try and force myself to read something that I wasn’t interested in. But it was more just my attitude and mentality around it. It was just like, it had to be serious. Like everything was serious. I have to… 100% right. 100%. Like no matter what, it was serious, serious, serious. And now I’m just thinking about, Heath Ledger, “Why so serious?” But I was so serious all the time, and I think it got in the way of my happiness and got in the way of enjoying certain things. And so yeah, I would probably, hopefully try to instill within younger me like, “Hey, stop being so fucking serious. Like, relax, smile, take a breather. You’re fucking 18, 20, 22, 24. Chill. You’re young. Like, just fucking relax. It’s not a big deal. Just relax.” That’s probably what I’d say.


0:29:22.1 Mike Vacanti: I like it.


0:29:23.2 Jordan Syatt: What would you say?


0:29:27.5 Mike Vacanti: I would tell, if we’re going with 18-year-old self, I would tell my 18-year-old self to always trust your gut and intuition. Because the times that I have acted on my intuition, even, and especially when it was at odds to societal norms or what advice other people were giving me, it ended up being way better for me. And every time I went against my intuition, even if I didn’t know it in that month or that year in the future, it ended up being much worse for me. And I can give a lot of… I can give the positive examples very easily, right? Like quitting my accounting job when I talked to so many people about it and nobody thought it was a good idea. You just got a master’s degree, you got your CPA license. You’re at a big four firm, this is like very… You’re doing so well that you’re just getting your career started.


0:30:29.6 Mike Vacanti: But I just felt the weight of like these chains in my day-to-day life and felt like I would have such regret if I didn’t quit and try something else. So that was an example of listen to intuition, good thing happened. I don’t think I have examples of ignoring my intuition and a bad thing happening related to like this podcast, right? Like related to business or even my own personal fitness. I feel like I’ve been pretty… I’ll never forget my mom being like… Probably not concerned isn’t the right word, but maybe just like a little not even fed up. I don’t know. I don’t know what she was thinking, but she asked me very sweetly like, “Hey, when do you think this macro stuff is gonna… When do you think you’re gonna stop talking about this macro stuff?” And I was like, “Never mom.” [laughter]


0:31:27.5 Jordan Syatt: Was this like… Had you already started writing on the website and stuff?


0:31:30.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t remember. It was definitely around that or just before. So somewhere in that, just getting started.


0:31:36.3 Jordan Syatt: Were you saying like this was gonna be a business of yours or something, and you’re like…


0:31:40.3 Mike Vacanti: No, no. I think I was… I would just talk about it a lot and like [laughter], she maybe thought I was… Maybe had slight concern or like… I don’t know exactly. And it could have… It could have just been me taking it the wrong way, right? Like taking it seriously. And maybe it was just more out of curiosity on her side. Like, “Hey, you’re really into this new thing.” But [laughter], there’s some other ones that are like, I would call pretty important. That I’m debating whether or not we wanna talk about, but why not? I, ignoring my intuition around like hookup culture and instead going down that path which was primarily driven by ego and desire for validation. As a younger dude wanting to be liked by women and wanting that positive feedback, was definitely net bad in the long run. And I think that hookup culture, meaning just like where we’re at, where Gen Z is at today, or maybe even like some younger millennials, maybe everyone who’s single, I don’t really know a lot of people, but where it’s just a lot of casual hookups without any kind of relationship, is not only probably… And I’m not telling people what to do.


0:33:19.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s just for you, it’s your own personal thing. That’s it.


0:33:22.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Although, I even hate that I even put that caveat on there. It’s so soft. But I not only think it’s probably net bad for society, but net bad for the individual, too. Male and female. This isn’t like “Oh, you need to keep your body count low.” But it’s like I think for both men and women, it’s not good. So that was an area where I would argue that knowing internally, like this doesn’t necessarily seem right, but succumbing to what I hate. Society is so vague and like… But I can’t think of a better word. Like just doing the norm rather than trusting my intuition.


0:34:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Was anyone… Was there anything that led you to have that intuition? Like your dad, or was there anyone that led you to have that intuition? Because I know like JP, obviously, later in life. But was that intuition purely from within you always? Or was there other books? Was there something that led you to that or that was just purely within you from the beginning?


0:34:37.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was. It was probably like upbringing and parenting kind of at a younger age, like teens. But I think we have an innate sense of… I don’t think that morality is just a pure…


0:35:00.5 Jordan Syatt: Subjective…


0:35:01.5 Mike Vacanti: Social contract or, yeah, like molded by your surroundings. I think we as humans have that installed in us.


0:35:08.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:35:12.1 Mike Vacanti: So I would’ve to think about that a little bit. But, yeah. Later on in my… Into my 20s, there were definitely information I was consuming that helped either build or strengthen or reaffirm that intuition.


0:35:32.9 Jordan Syatt: Makes sense.


0:35:33.0 Mike Vacanti: And maybe just the experience of life, but that’s why you’re giving advice to your younger self so you get to take potential mistakes or things that you went through and then give advice to.


0:35:43.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:35:44.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:35:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Good answers. Good question, Margo.


0:35:47.8 Mike Vacanti: Good question, Margo.


0:35:49.6 Jordan Syatt: What is your sleeping position?


0:35:52.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, this is maybe… [laughter] This is my favorite question I’ve ever heard. This is so important. [laughter] You didn’t know?


0:36:04.7 Jordan Syatt: I knew as soon as I said…


0:36:06.4 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, no.


0:36:07.5 Jordan Syatt: I knew. I knew you’re going to want that question.


0:36:08.8 Mike Vacanti: You didn’t know before. No. You didn’t know how much I’m gonna love this. Okay. [laughter]


0:36:17.3 Jordan Syatt: There is the more like obscure the question, the more you love.


0:36:19.7 Mike Vacanti: [laughter] Yeah. That’s kind of true, actually. That’s kind of… You know what, that is very true. [laughter] Because on JP’s personality assessment. I scored very high on openness. I think it’s one of the ideas why I was always so resistant to make the same piece of content twice. Because a lot of interest is driven by curiosity and new ideas, not by other things. [laughter] And so yeah, obscurity is a metric for how much I care.


0:36:46.4 Jordan Syatt: The Ooh that you gave when I said that question was like an ooh that I gave when like, I was going through the candy that I got on Halloween as a kid, and I found like my favorite… I was like, “Ooh.” [laughter]


0:36:58.3 Mike Vacanti: Dude, no. No one talks about this, and you constantly have people who are like, [laughter] “All right, can it?” All right, this is important. Get your laughs out. All right, get them out.


0:37:12.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay, keep going.


0:37:15.9 Mike Vacanti: I’ll have clients who are like, something with my shoulder. I feel like maybe I slept funny. I feel like I slept wrong. Who consistently do sleep on your side with one pillow on a crummy mattress in this… There is an optimal way to sleep, and I’m gonna tell you what it is.


0:37:39.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:37:39.5 Mike Vacanti: Probably varies a little bit from person-to-person, but I’m gonna tell you what works anecdotally, all right, you sleep on your side and you get a pillow stack, whether that’s one big pillow, two little pillows, however you wanna do it, but you get a pillow stack where your neck is neutral, you don’t wanna have a really, really flat pillow where you’re sleeping like this, pillow on head, I’m sleeping on my side, and you don’t want this ginormous pillow where you’re inside flexion this way, if you’re on video, you can see, but I’m just tilt my head from side-to-side, right? You want your neck neutral while you’re sleeping. What feels really good for me, and what I have heard from a lot of people is having a big pillow between your legs is gonna lead to a lack of hip/low-back pain.


0:38:29.7 Mike Vacanti: Having a pillow in front of you, so you’re sleeping on your side, you get a pillow in front of you for your top arm to be on, so you don’t have this… Like if you don’t have that there, then this arms just fall in here, you got this internal rotation of the shoulder, avoiding that wedge in a pillow behind you and kinda under you, it’s a five-pillow solution. This is our fifth and final pillow, because when you’re sleeping on your side, if you don’t have a pillow behind you and you’re straight on your side, what happens is you’re essentially crushing the down shoulder, okay? ‘Cause you’re sleeping right on it, that’s where you can wake up with your whole arms like numb and tingly or just that’s where pain over time from sleeping on that shoulder can occur, so by edging a pillow behind you, you’re not gonna be sleeping directly on your slide… On your side, you’re gonna be tilted at a slight angle back because you have that pillow supporting you, which allows you to get your bottom shoulder out in front of you, so you’re on your side, but your bottom shoulders slightly out in front of you, so you’re not… You don’t have all your weight on that shoulder, you have the shoulders slightly out in front of you.


0:39:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay, got it.


0:39:44.3 Mike Vacanti: And the bonus…


0:39:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:39:45.8 Mike Vacanti: Bonus, you can have another pillow on the other side, if not… I do this. On the other side of the front pillow, where you’re gonna have your hand from your bottom arm on top of the second pillow.


0:40:00.0 Jordan Syatt: On top of it.


0:40:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:40:02.2 Jordan Syatt: Why on top?


0:40:05.1 Mike Vacanti: You’ll know… If you’re in the position and you’re laying there, you’re gonna be like my hand naturally wants to be like two inches in the air. Your bottom hand naturally wants to be, too, because of the position you’re in. And so giving that hand support rather than having it like fall straight on the bed and have like a little bit of torque on your shoulder. I’m very… I have a guest bedroom back here. I’m very tempted to grab a bunch of pillows and do this right now.


0:40:29.8 Jordan Syatt: No, no, it’s okay. You don’t need to go.


0:40:32.0 Mike Vacanti: I kind of want to. I feel like it’d be good content. [laughter]


0:40:36.1 Jordan Syatt: You want to go show everyone on YouTube how you do this?


0:40:38.7 Mike Vacanti: Guess what? We have video on Spotify too.


0:40:42.5 Jordan Syatt: Okay. I mean, how are you gonna bring the mic and everything?


0:40:43.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna bring the pillows to the people. I’m not gonna bring the people to the pillows. Watch.


0:40:48.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay, yeah. Go for it.


0:40:49.1 Mike Vacanti: This can’t be that hard, right?


0:40:55.0 Jordan Syatt: We’re gonna have to make this a clip.


0:40:57.1 Mike Vacanti: This is good shit. All right. You see me all right?


0:41:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah.


0:41:06.8 Mike Vacanti: Two pillows. These are head pillows. [laughter] Okay? This is the wedge behind you. This is the in front of you pillow. We need a sixth pillow. We don’t have it. I’m gonna use this blanket. Pretend this is pillow number six. Bro, this could change your life. All right. So here we are. We’re on our side. [laughter] We’re going between the legs. All right. I’m here. These pillows are kind of flat. But bigger pillows are better. You got this one here. Pretend this is a pillow. Got my two pillows for my neutral neck. And then I jam this under me. So I can have a slight lean back. Here, here. Oh, my gosh. Best night’s sleep you’ll ever get. And you’re not going to be in pain complaining about your shoulder…


0:42:16.2 Jordan Syatt: Neck.


0:42:16.3 Mike Vacanti: Et cetera. Low back.


0:42:18.0 Jordan Syatt: If that doesn’t motivate someone to go watch on YouTube, I don’t know what will. I had never expected that. That was amazing. That reminded me of like a real like 2012-style exercise video technique. And that was just… That was amazing. That was awesome.


0:42:34.4 Mike Vacanti: We need to bring back 2012.


0:42:36.6 Jordan Syatt: Is that how you sleep every night?


0:42:40.3 Mike Vacanti: Yes. Essentially, yes.


0:42:42.3 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Dude, I love that.


0:42:44.6 Mike Vacanti: So do I.


0:42:45.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that’s… Yeah, that’s great. It’s funny you brought up the neutral neck. So I figured that out within the last couple of years that that was causing some issues. I got this pillow. The company sent it to me and I like never shouted them out and I felt sort of bad. But like, it’s great. I think it’s called The Cube. Yeah, the Pillow Cube. So they sent me one and I use it every night. I need to shout them out. I need to put something on Instagram. I literally use it every night. They sent it to me like a year and a half, two years ago. And essentially, it takes away the need to have multiple pillows stacked up. And it’s just like… It has that elevation to it where it’s a soft pillow but it’s in the shape of a cube so that your shoulder isn’t jammed and your neck isn’t like this. It’s just like a nice right angle style cube.


0:43:33.0 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:43:33.7 Jordan Syatt: And yeah, really, really good.


0:43:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.


0:43:38.7 Jordan Syatt: So I don’t do the six-pillow solution that you’ve got.


0:43:39.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s a mistake.


0:43:42.9 Jordan Syatt: But by the way, it could be the name of a book or something.


0:43:44.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s a mistake right there.


0:43:45.1 Jordan Syatt: But I do have either. If I’m traveling, I don’t travel with the cube. But I’ve got the pillows to make sure that my neck is neutral position. And then sometimes I’ll do the one pillow in front of me just like that. Like the bear hug. But I don’t have the one wedged behind me or the one in between my legs.


0:44:04.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, you’re partway there, you know? You keep at it and eventually…


0:44:11.0 Jordan Syatt: One day.


0:44:11.4 Mike Vacanti: You’ll see the light. [laughter]


0:44:13.8 Jordan Syatt: One day.


0:44:13.9 Mike Vacanti: You’ll see the light.


0:44:14.6 Jordan Syatt: Awesome.


0:44:15.5 Mike Vacanti: It is. I like that you mentioned a specific kind of pillow because, finding a pillow that works for you. Dude, a third of every day times a lifetime in bed? Why would we not optimize darkness, noise reduction, temperature? Like bedding. I mean, unless you’re in your grind first year to warrior phase, you’re spending zero dollars. In which case, sleep on the floor and work your face off. Great. But once you get past a certain point, the ROI of high quality sleep is so massive.


0:44:47.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you’re preaching. Especially like everyone talks about how sleep makes it more difficult to lose fat or sleep makes more difficult to do X or less sleep. Sorry, less sleep. But like the reality is even if you’re everything is normal, like on a normal day, less sleep just makes everything harder.


0:45:05.8 Mike Vacanti: Yes.


0:45:06.9 Jordan Syatt: Like shitty sleep makes life harder.


0:45:09.9 Mike Vacanti: Yes.


0:45:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Period. End of story. Yeah. 100%.


0:45:11.0 Mike Vacanti: Couldn’t agree more.


0:45:13.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Here’s one. This one is… It’s about the Inner Circle. But I think it’s important to discuss on like this business podcast because it’s someone asking… And these questions I get from my site Fitness page. So, someone said, “I would love to join the Inner Circle but I’d rather pay monthly. Do you have any thoughts on allowing that?” And I just want to quickly talk about it because number one, I was just speaking at a couple of events this past weekend and there were a bunch of coaches who were… There were newer coaches and they get… As soon as a client or a potential client says they want something, they’re almost always inclined to say, “I’ll give you what you want. I’ll give you whatever you want. You want that? Yeah, we’ll do that. Like whatever you want.” And I don’t think that’s a good strategy for business.


0:46:01.5 Jordan Syatt: Just like whatever they want, just giving it to them because eventually, you’re going to have 76 different offers based to try and fit every single individual and you’re going to try and make everything perfect to that person which is going to drive you insane and it’s going to ruin your systems. You’re going to give one… Maybe you start everything out on an Excel sheet but then someone else wants it in a PDF and then someone else wants it in an email and someone else wants to communicate with you via DM and then someone else wants to communicate with you via an app and then someone else wants this pricing. It’s like you need to come up with your systems and your pricing and your offer and that’s it. And this is it. And it doesn’t mean it can’t improve over time.


0:46:40.4 Jordan Syatt: My systems are changing and improving all the time. Even in the mentorship, we just changed the pricing and the systems for that. So now if someone wants to join the mentorship, they need to apply which if you want to apply to join the mentorship, you can do that at the link in the description. But we’re constantly… We can constantly try to improve but improving doesn’t mean giving everyone what they want. Improving means making systems better for you and them overall. And sometimes what’s best for you and them overall, is something that maybe they don’t like and that’s okay. And so in this example, someone’s saying, “Well you do… Can I pay monthly?” No, absolutely not. I used to offer that in up until like 2017 until I realized that allowing people to pay monthly was actually causing more harm for them because as if they paid monthly, then they expected results in a month.


0:47:30.6 Jordan Syatt: I was like, “All right.” And it was subconscious but it’s the same reason why I don’t do month-to-month agreements in fitness. If I have someone sign up for a fitness program with me, they are required to have at least a six-month commitment. And we talk a lot about this in the mentorship. You don’t have to start with six months. Early on, I was like, “Okay, minimum three months.” Then four months eventually came to six months. But it was a minimum commitment that they had to sign on with. And that’s essentially what I have with the Inner Circle. It’s a minimum three-month commitment. And when people sign up for a minimum of three months, they’re more likely to succeed. They’re more likely to, by the end of the first month, not think they’re a failure because it’s a three-month minimum commitment. But if you have them sign up for just one month, by the time they get two weeks in, they feel like they haven’t made any progress and then they just quit. They didn’t even give it a real chance. So, no, there will never be a change to allow month-to-month options.


0:48:21.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Great points on not capitulating to demands from a small percentage of individuals, right? Most people who are signing up for a program, who sign up for your coaching, like they’re not gonna try to change the program and not gonna make like, “Oh, can we do this different? Can we do this different?” Some will, but most don’t, which is great.


0:48:45.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:48:46.7 Jordan Syatt: In your exact example, there’s something to be said about the pricing for a membership being lower than the pricing for coaching. And you charging three months at a time for the Inner Circle where it’s more affordable, right? It’s not like you’re charging 400 bucks a month times three months, like having someone pay 1200 upfront to get into a fitness program, right?


0:49:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:49:16.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know exactly, I know prices might be changing soon, but it’s much lower than that.


0:49:23.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:49:23.2 Mike Vacanti: So three months of being in the Inner Circle is very affordable.


0:49:31.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:49:32.0 Mike Vacanti: Like less than a month of one-on-one coaching. So you can also, like from that perspective, it’s not like you’re asking for something outrageous. It’s still affordable. And there’s just so much good content in there and workouts and everything that to give somebody the ability to sign on for one month and then just immediately cancel is like, I don’t know if that was part of your rationale at all, but from my perspective, it is like, I wouldn’t want that if I were in your shoes.


0:50:01.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, that’s exactly right.


0:50:05.5 Mike Vacanti: And the same reason why we have a minimum commitment with coaching is not only like, are there business reasons for it, but by having a client mentally commit to a minimum timeframe, they’re not going to immediately think I’m going to quit and try something else when 11 days in, like something happens, go off the rails, binge, scale goes up three pounds. It’s like, “Oh, this isn’t working.” And cancel. Isn’t an option when you’ve mentally committed to four, six, or even a longer timeframe.


0:50:38.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:50:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:50:38.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s exactly right.


0:50:39.3 Mike Vacanti: Sweet.


0:50:40.3 Jordan Syatt: Sick. Good pod, bro.


0:50:43.2 Mike Vacanti: Good pod. Thank you very much for listening. Weekly uploads here in 2024. We hope you’re having a great start to your year. We’ll be back next Tuesday, Instagram @personaltrainerpodcast. Our man Syatt Fitness is crushing three X a week uploads, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, occasionally Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, if there’s a conflict, but three days in a row.


0:51:10.4 Jordan Syatt: No BS, no excuses. Just gets it done.


0:51:12.9 Mike Vacanti: He just gets it done. Regardless of how he feels, he does it because it’s his duty.


0:51:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I literally never feel like posting it. I never feel like posting it, but I do every day, three days a week.


0:51:24.3 Mike Vacanti: Duty and responsibility to post. And so you do.


0:51:28.4 Jordan Syatt: No pontificating, no capitulating. Just get it done.


0:51:32.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Just do it right away. Let’s let it rip 2024.


0:51:36.9 Jordan Syatt: Have a wonderful day.


0:51:38.4 Mike Vacanti: See you soon. Goodbye.


0:51:38.5 Jordan Syatt: See you.

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