Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | RSS Feed | YouTube

In this episode, we discuss how we manage our mental health, bulking strategies, drugs and alcohol, clean eating, and more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


Join our email list & get our FREE ’30 Ways To Build A Successful Online Coaching Business’ manual:

Check out our new book ‘Eat It!’ at

If you have any questions you’d like to have answered on the show, shoot us an email at

If you enjoyed the episode, we would sincerely appreciate it if you left a five-star review.


You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.9 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:14.0 Mike Vacanti: We’re back with the How to Become a Personal Trainer podcast every Tuesday morning of 2024 and beyond.


0:00:21.5 Jordan Syatt: Except maybe in December. We took a week off in December of 2023. Maybe we’ll do that in 2024, December.


0:00:27.9 Mike Vacanti: Maybe, we won’t. Maybe we won’t. Maybe we’ll push through. Maybe we’ll ascend into the holiday season this year instead of falling on our faces.


0:00:35.8 Jordan Syatt: Maybe. Time will tell.


0:00:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Who knows?


0:00:41.3 Jordan Syatt: What are you drinking? You got aminos?


0:00:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Ice water out of a reverse osmosis filter. Although this is a plastic bottle, which I do not condone any longer. I need to get a metal bottle.


0:00:48.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re not big on the plastics anymore.


0:00:53.0 Mike Vacanti: 240,000 nanoparticles of microplastics in the average one liter plastic water bottle. Now, that’s not what this is, right? It’s a different kind of plastic, but that’s insane.


0:01:03.1 Jordan Syatt: What kind of plastic is that?


0:01:04.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. Not the same as like a… Like an Ice Mountain.


0:01:08.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you mean like an Aquafina type bottle?


0:01:10.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yep.


0:01:12.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah.


0:01:13.0 Mike Vacanti: And we don’t like, obviously we don’t know what that means. Like, is that actually for sure bad for us? And if so, how bad is it? We don’t know. But 240,000 is a lot of plastic. [laughter] I don’t need to be drinking that much plastic.




0:01:31.7 Mike Vacanti: You know?


0:01:33.2 Jordan Syatt: Man, dude.


0:01:34.6 Mike Vacanti: We need test at 1K, not at 200.


0:01:35.4 Jordan Syatt: 240K.




0:01:41.5 Mike Vacanti: Test levels at 240,000?


0:01:43.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh I thought you were saying you want your microplastic levels at 1K. [laughter]


0:01:44.4 Mike Vacanti: No, no. I want my microplastics at zero [laughter]


0:01:50.6 Jordan Syatt: We want 240,000 test levels. [laughter]


0:01:54.8 Mike Vacanti: That would… I don’t know what that would be. That would be, yeah, my brain can’t even comprehend that. I got a couple random things here. Actually, first shout out Chris Gates. Chris Gates in the mentorship. I said we would hit on this in the podcast, so we will. We just did a Q&A and Chris Gates said, Mike, how’s not scrolling going? And basically, if you’re not scrolling, how are you reading this? Like, ha ha ha. Which is good. That’s clever Chris. But scrolling. Let me explain. Let me explain.




0:02:28.8 Mike Vacanti: When I say I’m not scrolling. And by the way, I’ve scrolled on Twitter some like…


0:02:36.5 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:02:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. I’ve scrolled on Twitter some. Not a ton.


0:02:38.1 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t know that. But not on Instagram.


0:02:41.1 Mike Vacanti: Yes, you did. No, not on anywhere else. But here’s the thing, when I say not scrolling, like if I have a bunch of text messages and I need to go down a little bit on my phone to look at them, I do that. If I…


0:02:52.1 Jordan Syatt: Of course.


0:02:53.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. But even on a desktop to read the questions and the mentorship, like there’s kind of a scroll. When I say, not scrolling, I’m not going on ‘for you’ feeds. I’m not scrolling through reels, TikToks, YouTube shorts, any of those like this, where you end up doom scrolling. I still use my phone. If I’m writing in a notes app and I need to move the phone a little bit, I do that. But I avoid algos that are essentially trying to infiltrate and ruin our brains.


0:03:22.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I thought that was self-explanatory.


0:03:24.2 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Maybe it is.


0:03:25.9 Jordan Syatt: No scrolling on social media. What are you seeing on Twitter though? Or formerly Twitter now X.


0:03:31.7 Mike Vacanti: What am I seeing? What am I not seeing on there?


0:03:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. What are you seeing? Anything good?


0:03:36.5 Mike Vacanti: No, no. What I actually do is I really don’t like… Well, if I just scroll the algo, I end up seeing a random street fight. I end up seeing stuff that I don’t need to be seen.


0:03:51.9 Jordan Syatt: I love those. I love those videos.


0:03:54.4 Mike Vacanti: Of course you do. But I’m wasting my life away watching them. So I’ll have a handful, three to seven people who I type in their name, and then I go to what they have tweeted, and then I read their tweets up until I’m caught up on their tweets. And then it saves them as recent searches. So that’s my primary use of Twitter.


0:04:11.7 Jordan Syatt: Anyone good?


0:04:13.7 Mike Vacanti: No, no. I’m gonna keep…


0:04:14.7 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:04:15.5 Mike Vacanti: Maybe someday I’ll reveal my sources, but not right now. Not right now.


0:04:17.9 Jordan Syatt: Not right now. Okay.


0:04:23.8 Mike Vacanti: So that was… That’s to answer Chris’s question.


0:04:27.9 Jordan Syatt: All right. Good.


0:04:28.7 Mike Vacanti: I have a theory that you’re not gonna like. Oh, go ahead.


0:04:29.6 Jordan Syatt: I was gonna say that you’ve been using that treadmill, getting your cardio in.


0:04:35.3 Mike Vacanti: I have. I feel fantastic.


0:04:37.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude. Yeah, you did 12 incline, 3.4 speed for 30 minutes. You got some good cardiovascular activity right there.


0:04:47.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It was reasonable. Give me a few weeks to build up my base before I start taking my blood pressure again on Jordan’s recommendation.


0:04:56.5 Jordan Syatt: What’s your theory?


0:05:01.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s not a…


0:05:01.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s a fact.


0:05:03.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s between the two, but you’re not gonna like it.


0:05:07.1 Jordan Syatt: I bet. I’ll love it.


0:05:08.3 Mike Vacanti: Actually I’ll start… No, you’re not gonna like it. I’ll start with this. You and I have different GI tracks, I have come to understand, because the amount of insoluble fiber that you consume, if I get close to that, I don’t digest food.


0:05:26.7 Jordan Syatt: What happens?


0:05:29.9 Mike Vacanti: For the pod for the audience, I’m not gonna be graphic, but my food doesn’t get digested and absorbed. It doesn’t get absorbed into my body and used. It doesn’t get broken down. The insoluble fiber acts as this capsule that just carries it through.


0:05:41.8 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yep.


0:05:43.0 Mike Vacanti: And so I’ve had to significantly reduce my Bran Buds intake, unfortunately. And things are very dialed.


0:05:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, good.


0:05:55.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it’s good. I actually really liked, when I first started having them, I was essentially only eating Christmas cookies. And I’ve come to realize that it’s an excess of sugar and high amount of calories that actually caused me…


0:06:14.8 Jordan Syatt: Sugar and butter.


0:06:17.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But specifically sugar. ’cause there were times where my wife bought these like Airhead candy, like not an Airhead, but it’s Airhead in like this form. Like it’s a… It looks like an oversized skittle, but it’s Airhead.


0:06:28.5 Jordan Syatt: Really?


0:06:32.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You don’t want them, but it is sugar.


0:06:32.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s just sugar. Yeah. That’s straight sugar.


0:06:36.4 Mike Vacanti: That would cause like GI discomfort, distress, and basically non-optimal digestion, where reducing the intake of those processed sugars, just like cutting out desserts and eating slightly fewer calories, overall, maintenance or in a slight deficit has led to things being way, way, way better and normal and feeling really good compared to… I don’t know why, but I had a… I used to have a theory that essentially increasing calories would cause more waste and get things figured out if you were backed up or whatever. And that proved incorrectly.


0:07:12.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that doesn’t, yeah. I don’t think that’s how it works.




0:07:15.8 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s not how it works. Might have been a justification of a few extra Christmas cookies, who knows?


0:07:23.5 Jordan Syatt: “Just need to get this out. So I’m just gonna eat more shit.” [laughter]


0:07:28.1 Mike Vacanti: Yes, yes, yes, yes.


0:07:30.5 Jordan Syatt: Clog my GI up. Yeah, it sounds not right.


0:07:36.8 Mike Vacanti: But who would’ve known that eating traditionally healthy foods and in reasonable quantities would lead to the body properly regulating and getting you feeling good.


0:07:47.0 Jordan Syatt: Bro, eating a high quality food is the most underrated thing right now. Is like eating super, super high quality. It’s just the best. It’s the best. I’m gonna go… I think we should go back to clean eating.


0:08:01.5 Mike Vacanti: Let’s go.


0:08:02.8 Jordan Syatt: We need to bring clean eating back.


0:08:02.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m on day five of zero desserts and zero processed. Like no chewy bars. No like, yeah. I don’t remember if we talked about this in our last podcast, which was just two days ago we recorded it where I would’ve been on day three, but…




0:08:19.4 Jordan Syatt: Day five. Just gotta give them that perspective just so you guys know.


0:08:22.8 Mike Vacanti: Context. I’m not that impressive. Just like, we’re not a week into this. But tell me, what do you mean? You’re bringing it back single handedly?


0:08:32.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude… No, no, no. Quadruple handedly. My two hands. Your two hands. We’re gonna bring it back.


0:08:37.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Okay.


0:08:39.4 Jordan Syatt: I just feel super good just salmon, eggs, avocado, Bran buds, just apples, watermelon, blueberries, blackberries, chicken.


0:09:00.9 Mike Vacanti: White potato, sweet potato, white rice.


0:09:03.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Roasted potatoes, rice.


0:09:03.6 Mike Vacanti: Foods that are rich in micronutrients, fiber that you individually digest well, so there’s gonna be individual variants here, right?


0:09:12.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nuts, nuts, nuts. Almonds, pumpkin seeds, pepitas, which are pumpkin. Yep. Love that. Love that.


0:09:22.3 Mike Vacanti: Some Wasabi flavored almonds.


0:09:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Brazil nuts. What are they called? King nuts. What’s the… Walnuts. Walnuts.


0:09:34.1 Mike Vacanti: Yep. They call walnuts king nuts?


0:09:40.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny. That’s like the literal translation in Hebrew for walnuts is King nut. Yeah. I was like, what’s the name for King Nut? Yeah.


0:09:46.9 Mike Vacanti: Bro, I’m fully on board with this. I think the one thing that I wanna highlight is individual variation in food choices. Some people feel better eating X, some people feel better eating Y, but making it primarily those foods and all fruits, vegetables, meat, it’s whole grains.


0:10:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Just the best.


0:10:10.2 Mike Vacanti: We were just talking about this, we were talking about this without getting into details, like people reaching out to you who started having medical issues of various kinds who were on very high saturated fat, very low, like fruit, moderately low fruit and vegetable diets, having real issues and how there is no one best diet and many can work for different individuals, but if we had to pick one, something like the Mediterranean diet is really close.


0:10:47.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s large scale data. Most people Mediterraneans, Mediterranean diet is like generally the healthiest for sure. It’s hard to argue that.


0:10:58.6 Mike Vacanti: And we went so hard, anti-saturated fat, anti-red meat in the nineties and pro low fat, high sugar, essentially like SnackWell’s branded cookies. My mind always goes to like being…


0:11:09.5 Jordan Syatt: Yes, the green box.


0:11:13.7 Mike Vacanti: So popular.


0:11:13.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:11:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I used to crush those, and then the pendulum swung hard back the other way to like, eat your bull testicles and eat four pounds of beef every single day and eat 100 grams of saturated fat every single day. And that’s actually the optimal way. Like we went way too far this way. There’s nothing wrong with some saturated fats, but it needs to be with… It would be better if it were within reason.


0:11:38.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct. 100%.


0:11:40.0 Mike Vacanti: All right. Jordan’s bringing back clean eating.


0:11:42.7 Jordan Syatt: We’re both bringing it back.


0:11:43.0 Mike Vacanti: Okay. I’m in.


0:11:45.2 Jordan Syatt: We’re both bringing it back. That should be your first post back on social media. Hey…


0:11:52.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know.


0:11:52.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up everyone I’m clean eating. Ice cream doesn’t fit your macros. All right? [laughter]


0:11:58.3 Mike Vacanti: Ice cream. Will… This is fascinating. This is fascinating. I saw a random N equals one thing where this person drank coffee right before bed and monitored her sleep score on her watch. And then did the same thing with a whole bunch of sugar before bed. Like a bunch of candy. And her sleep score was… And it’s one person and it’s just one night of each.


0:12:27.8 Jordan Syatt: Right, right, right.


0:12:29.4 Mike Vacanti: So it’s really not meaningful, but it was significantly worse with the sugar.


0:12:34.1 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.


0:12:34.7 Mike Vacanti: Which I found interesting. Yeah.


0:12:34.8 Jordan Syatt: That would be cool if she did that like every day for two weeks with sugar and then every day for two weeks without sugar. That would be interesting to see. And that might make a really good YouTube video. I might talk to Mitch about that. Do that for YouTube video. That’s super smart.


0:12:49.1 Mike Vacanti: Bro, do it. Run with it.


0:12:52.5 Jordan Syatt: How’s your lifting going?


0:12:55.1 Mike Vacanti: Strong.


0:12:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Love that.


0:12:56.9 Mike Vacanti: 2024 is a real year, it’s a real year, Jordan. But it’s still just like push pull leg, hitting each body part once per week. Not doing anything crazy in terms of trying to add muscle, but keeping like a strong lifting base, seeing slight strength gains in some areas. And just feeling good and focused on adding cardio, which I’ve done successfully for a short amount of time. And adding more stretching and mobility.


0:13:25.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh. Yeah. Big mobility guy now.


0:13:28.5 Mike Vacanti: No, I wouldn’t go that far.


0:13:29.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you’re a big mobility guy now.


0:13:32.2 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t go that far, but I feel much better if I do. Even 15 to 20 minutes would be awesome. But it’s actually about a 30-minute mobility routine that in the morning I’ve been doing most mornings for a little while and feels good.


0:13:49.0 Jordan Syatt: What’s like your favorite mobility exercise that you’ve been doing?


0:13:53.7 Mike Vacanti: What’s the…


0:13:55.0 Jordan Syatt: I mean one mobility drill that you do that you’re like, God, this is just the best.


0:13:58.3 Mike Vacanti: So there aren’t any, but I’ll say two things.


0:14:01.2 Jordan Syatt: None?


0:14:01.7 Mike Vacanti: There aren’t any, but I’ll say two things. I’ll say a few things.




0:14:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Say a few.




0:14:12.9 Mike Vacanti: While I’m doing it, the toe stretch.


0:14:18.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah.


0:14:21.8 Mike Vacanti: I feel the most because I’ve really never done it. I’ve done a little bit in yoga back in the day, but I’ve really never done it. So I feel it while I’m doing it, like, wow, this is crazy. What I feel the most like a positive residual effect is all of the thoracic flex extension and rotation and not just like, I’ll do it in my warmup before every workout. Right? I’ll cat cow a few kinda lazily and do a few t-spine rotations. I’m like, all right onto the next thing. But really doing high rep, full range of motion, multiple T-spine mobility drills.


0:14:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:14:58.8 Mike Vacanti: For a short amount of time. And then for example, before this morning’s workout, when I was going through my normal pre-workout warmup and I did the T-spine stuff, I could feel the bigger range already in a short amount of time which is pretty wild.


0:15:12.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s the best. T-spine rotation is just, ugh, so good.


0:15:19.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Oh, I had another one. I didn’t even tell you about this yet. You’re gonna be so pumped. Lateral flexion of the lumbar spine. Basically like a nice QL stretch, feels…


0:15:32.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s what I’m saying.


0:15:33.8 Mike Vacanti: I know, I know. I never got into it, but I think I’m sold.


0:15:39.6 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Dude. I can’t believe you didn’t tell me this. I was like going all in on this one.


0:15:43.4 Mike Vacanti: You were going all in on…


0:15:45.1 Jordan Syatt: How’d you do it? Did you do it standing up? Did you do it on the 45 degree hyper? Like, where’d you do it?


0:15:48.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I have… Well, I’ve done a few variations. I’ve done the half kneeling, loaded variation.


0:15:52.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. Love that one.


0:15:55.3 Mike Vacanti: But for really just taking the standing cross leg variation seriously. And really trying to walk my hand down my leg on the non-working side and actually holding it for 45 to 60 seconds and trying to get deeper and deeper into the stretch and breathing increased the range and just had my low back feeling really good.


0:16:14.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, feels amazing.


0:16:19.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:16:21.1 Jordan Syatt: That one… Opening up the QL, dear Lord, there’s just nothing like it.


0:16:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, I’d take a nasty pump over that, but yes, there are things like it, but not like it. But I’m with you for all intents and purposes.


0:16:37.2 Jordan Syatt: No. No, no. You can’t compare a pump to mobility. Like they’re two separate things. You can do both.


0:16:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, you can compare things that are separate.


0:16:44.1 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:16:44.6 Mike Vacanti: You actually can.


0:16:46.3 Jordan Syatt: Not in this situation.


0:16:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay. All right.




0:16:52.6 Jordan Syatt: No. Oh yeah.


0:16:52.7 Mike Vacanti: But yes.


0:16:52.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s great. I love that.


0:16:56.2 Mike Vacanti: The combination of cardio mobility, reduced screen time, reduced processed food, and specifically sugar intake. I mean, it’s obvious, right? Like this is all obvious stuff that we’re saying, but day-to-day life makes it easy. Like it’s much easier to watch something on TV or the computer versus doing the mobility routine. It’s much easier to eat this thing that hits our pleasure centers versus refraining from having that, or just having an apple instead. Yeah, it’s obvious, but it’s not easy.


0:17:31.4 Jordan Syatt: How’s your caffeine intake?


0:17:33.5 Mike Vacanti: Slightly higher, actually.


0:17:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. Where’s that coming from?


0:17:37.2 Mike Vacanti: Well, I don’t know if it’s higher or not.




0:17:42.0 Mike Vacanti: We’re 18 minutes in and I feel like this is just Mike ranting about recent…


0:17:46.7 Jordan Syatt: I’m just trying to bring up all the things that I feel you’re gonna really enjoy talking about.


0:17:50.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, here, I actually wasn’t gonna go on this whole diet ride but maybe a few people are interested. I had an incredible observation when I was in Florida. Because we had some really bad weather for most of the trip.


0:18:05.4 Jordan Syatt: How bad?


0:18:07.1 Mike Vacanti: Still better than Minnesota, but no sun, very cloudy, colder than normal. And I still felt really good. And when I was trying to think about what I do differently when I’m there more human interaction, like what are the things that are different, more time outside? One of the things that is different is the coffee there is weaker and I don’t use Splenda or Sweet’n Low. Instead I use Stevia ’cause that’s what’s there. I just, oh, put it in. And and I drink more coffee when I’m there and I feel good versus here when I drink coffee, I make it stronger and I use Splenda or Stevia, or sorry, Splenda or Sweet’n Low. And I don’t know, I don’t think I feel bad when I’m here. But since coming back, I’ve made the coffee a little weaker, used Stevia instead.


0:19:00.0 Mike Vacanti: So what I’m saying is, even though, yes, blah, blah, blah, science says artificial sweeteners are fine, I’m on board with that because I’m not smart enough to not be on board with that. Personally, in a short window, I have noticed increased mood and better brain function in some way, and you’re changing so many variables that is it that you’re eating healthier, that this is actually what’s causing it, and not this other thing. Sure, maybe. But I think sweetening my coffee with Stevia and having less other types of artificial sweeteners overall may be having a positive effect on my life.


0:19:33.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I believe that. You know what it’s interesting. I have diet sodas, no problem, and I feel fine with them. But I never put Splenda or Sweet’n Low in my coffee or in anything. There’s something about especially Sweet’n Low that neon pink packet that if I rip it open and put that in my… I immediately feel bad. Immediately. As I put it in, I’m like, this just doesn’t feel good to me. And so, I’ve never really put sweetener in my coffee. But…


0:20:05.5 Mike Vacanti: And Sweet’n Low is saccharine and Splenda is sucralose. So they are different sweeteners. And I think the data behind sucralose is better and more positive than the data behind saccharine, which that’s why saccharine is in less places these days.


0:20:22.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I just don’t, when I put it in, I don’t like either of them, but like diet soda, I’m fine with aspartame. No issues whatsoever. But something about that Sweet’n Low or ripping that packet open, it’s definitely mental. Maybe not, but just don’t feel good when I have those at all.


0:20:46.4 Mike Vacanti: We might be onto something here. We might be going anti-artificial sweetener.


0:20:51.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I think we should do that. Clean eating, anti-artificial sweetener.


0:21:00.4 Mike Vacanti: By the way, I’m fully on board with the research of subbing out sugar for artificial sweetener is very good, especially if you have to lose body fat or if your clients have to lose body fat to be healthier. It’s definitely a better option. Like, hands down. No questions.


0:21:11.1 Jordan Syatt: I’m still pro artificial sweetener. Yeah.


0:21:13.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but you’re pro in general, but just not for you personally.


0:21:19.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Correct.


0:21:20.6 Mike Vacanti: We’re just trying to… Are we trying to optimize here with clean eating and reducing artificial sweeteners?


0:21:23.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you know what? I’m just trying to… I’m trying to go the opposite way. I just want to see. I just want to experience it. I just want to live it. You know what I mean? We’ve been told so many things and we get bought-in. And we live in an echo chamber. It’s like, let me try the other… Let me see what they’re saying. Let me give it a shot.


0:21:43.0 Mike Vacanti: And when the echo chamber is justified with science, it’s hard to like…


0:21:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:21:47.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:21:47.8 Jordan Syatt: You know what I mean? Let me give it a shot. See how it makes me feel.


0:21:51.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:21:52.4 Jordan Syatt: And that’s what… I feel like more people should do that. It’s like everyone gets stuck in this echo chamber. Like, this is right. This is right. I’m only going to do this. And then they build up this intolerance for the other way. Like, this mental and emotional intolerance. Like, well, you’re just stupid. It’s like well, let me just give it a shot.


0:22:06.3 Mike Vacanti: If you do cardio you’re stupid.


0:22:09.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah exactly. Which is what you and I grew up with in the industry.


0:22:13.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:22:14.1 Jordan Syatt: We grew up with a group of people saying cardio is stupid. Don’t do cardio da, da, da. And then people are having real fucking issues because they’re not doing cardio. And same thing with stretching. I was brought up in an age in which stretching was stupid and you shouldn’t stretch. And stretching is going to ruin your lifting. It’s like, let me give it a shot. This shit feels great. You know what I mean? So just give it a shot.


0:22:34.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Everyone said, I don’t need to train my neck.


0:22:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Losers.


0:22:40.8 Mike Vacanti: Give it a shot.


0:22:40.9 Jordan Syatt: Give it a shot.


0:22:42.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I love that. Should we keep a list of what we’re doing? Because we both may forget.


0:22:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Did you ever read Peter Attia’s book in the whole.


0:22:53.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:22:54.6 Jordan Syatt: Did you really? You finished it?


0:22:57.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:23:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, man. I didn’t. You was like, let’s keep a list of things we’re doing. I was like, I remember we used to say, like, we were going to read this whole book and I just never fucking finished it. Was it good?


0:23:08.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah it was, it was good.


0:23:08.8 Jordan Syatt: The whole thing was good?


0:23:09.6 Mike Vacanti: The whole thing was good. The last chapter is very different. The last chapter is all about emotional health and he talks about his own story, which is cool in its own way.


0:23:18.3 Jordan Syatt: I just lost interest.


0:23:19.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s okay. I know. I didn’t tell you. We’ve got probably 40 emails from people asking when we’re going to talk about his book and saying how they’re massively disappointed in you. But yeah.


0:23:33.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:23:33.7 Mike Vacanti: We didn’t get any of those emails, actually. I’m just kidding. Artificial sweeteners, clean eating.


0:23:40.4 Jordan Syatt: Stretching.


0:23:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Stretching.


0:23:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Cardio.


0:23:44.7 Mike Vacanti: Cardio. Wow. We’re really making a list. Okay. No processed. Minimal processed. Dessert, sugar.


0:23:50.6 Jordan Syatt: I don’t have a lot of that anyway. I’m more of a savory guy. I’m more like chips type stuff.


0:23:55.0 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:23:55.5 Jordan Syatt: What else?


0:23:57.7 Mike Vacanti: What else? People like when we answer questions.


0:24:00.0 Jordan Syatt: You want me to pull up my Q&A?


0:24:01.7 Mike Vacanti: I think that’s what we should do.


0:24:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay, here’s one. This is not fitness related at all, but some people ask me questions that have nothing to do with fitness, and we’ll see. I think you might like this one. This woman said, if he won’t call me his girlfriend after dating for six months, is that being cautious or he’s not that into me?


0:24:24.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s a great question. Look, I lean towards, it’s not a great sign, but we need more context.


0:24:35.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. All right.


0:24:39.7 Mike Vacanti: I would advise this woman to check out attachment types because this sounds pretty classic avoidant attachment style. It’s not a great sign, but it’s not the end of things. He could just be, being very cautious.


0:25:03.3 Jordan Syatt: Cautious of what?


0:25:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, before we get into that, have you had the conversation of what are we? Are you just assuming that you’re monogamous and that he’s not seeing other people because you’re not seeing other people? I would definitely have that conversation if you haven’t already. I can’t keep up with the younger generation. There’s different phases that didn’t exist when we were coming up. Right? Like, are you talking? Are you in a situationship? No, these are like…


0:25:40.6 Jordan Syatt: Are those distinct phases?


0:25:42.8 Mike Vacanti: I believe so, based on what has come across my Twitter feed. But that’s not the majority of what I’m consuming.


0:25:49.1 Jordan Syatt: You’re deep in Twitter, bro.


0:25:54.4 Mike Vacanti: What do you think?


0:25:55.6 Jordan Syatt: I think there’s a lot. I think there’s a lot to unpack. I love the… You went a different way than I would have went. I think you’re smart to go look at attachment theories, all of that. You have to have the conversation of, like, hey, I’m at a point where I’d like to know what we are. Are we monogamous? Are we exclusive? That’s like the term that I grew up with. Like, are we exclusive or not?


0:26:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Yep, yep.


0:26:20.1 Jordan Syatt: But, I just immediately assumed that she had that conversation with him. But it’s not fair just to assume that. So definitely you have to have the conversation, are we exclusive? We’re six months in. We’ve been seeing each other for six months, dating for six months. But do you want to make this exclusive or not? If you haven’t had that conversation, you have to have that. If you’ve had that conversation and he’s still like, I don’t want to call you my girlfriend yet, I still don’t want to be exclusive yet, then what that means is he still just wants to hook up with other people. He doesn’t want to be… That’s what I would imagine. I don’t see other, there’s no reason to be cautious. You’ve already been together for six months. You’ve been seeing each other for six months. If the only thing that he doesn’t want to do is say he’s exclusive, then he’s saying that he wants to be with other people, which by the way, isn’t necessarily bad. The good news is he’s being honest about it. Essentially, he’s saying, I don’t want to make this promise to you that I am not going to be able to keep. You would much rather him be honest about it than lie and not be honest about it.


0:27:23.8 Jordan Syatt: What now comes up is you have to say, okay, well, let’s say he just still wants to not be exclusive and hook up with other people, now you have to make your choice and say, okay, at least he’s being honest. That’s a good thing. Do I want to be with someone who does not want to be exclusive yet? And then you can say, listen, all right, well, that’s fine, but I want to move on. I want to be exclusive with someone. And so this might be where we part ways. In which case, then he might be like, well, you know what? I don’t want to lose you. I don’t want to give this up. So, yeah, let’s be exclusive. In which case, then that might be how it works. I wouldn’t give him the ultimatum, but I would say, this is what I need. And so that would be that. But assuming you’ve had that conversation and I made up that scenario, but assuming that’s the scenario, I would just say he just is still wanting to keep his options open and look for other people. But I wouldn’t necessarily think that it means he’s not that into you or he’s being cautious. That’s just what I think. What do you think?


0:28:14.3 Mike Vacanti: I think that’s the most likely situation, is what you just described.


0:28:18.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:28:19.3 Mike Vacanti: Age is also a factor here. Like, if you’re both 21, it’s very different than if you’re both 30.


0:28:27.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, yeah. That’s exactly right. All right. Tiffany said, “have you ever done a bulk? What was it like?” You want to talk about a bulk?


0:28:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Jordan goes, “what will Mike definitely want to talk about here?”


0:28:41.7 Jordan Syatt: Yep.


0:28:42.0 Mike Vacanti: There we go.


0:28:43.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s literally it.


0:28:44.0 Mike Vacanti: Do you want to start?


0:28:44.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s how I’m approaching.


0:28:45.6 Mike Vacanti: Why don’t you start?


0:28:46.2 Jordan Syatt: You start. You want me to start?


0:28:49.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m curious.


0:28:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ve done a bulk in two different ways. I’ve done the bulk from the powerlifting way. Like there were times when… I’ve done like the classic old-school GFH bulk, get effing huge, where I just… There were times where I just wanted to eat as much as I could. And I was largely inspired by the guys at Westside and also by that bodybuilder that Lyle McDonald featured on that article that…


0:29:16.7 Mike Vacanti: Lee Priest.


0:29:17.4 Jordan Syatt: Remember the one eating the chicken wings? Lee Priest. Yeah. I was like, well, if he did it, then I could do it.


0:29:21.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:29:21.6 Jordan Syatt: And so when I finished getting as absolutely shredded, I worked with Martin Berkhan, got absolutely shredded, and I tried to maintain it for a while, but then when I went full on, I’m powerlifting, I was like, screw it, I’m just going to go nuts. And I got up to the heaviest I’ve ever been. I thought I wanted to get to like 185 and just compete there. And then I just quickly, I think by about like 160, I was like, I’m so fat, I was like this is just not okay. And so then I had done other bulks which were a little bit leaner and I’ve done bulks where I did more bodybuilding style. But the thing is, I just hated it. I just really didn’t like it. I didn’t like it from the training perspective, especially when it was bodybuilding focused. When it was powerlifting focused, I loved it. But when it was bodybuilding focused, I just hate that style of training.


0:30:14.4 Mike Vacanti: You only did that once, right?


0:30:19.8 Jordan Syatt: I did that with Paul Carter once, but then I had done that previously when I was younger, but that was like the most…


0:30:25.8 Mike Vacanti: A power building bulk, though, it’s the best of both worlds.


0:30:30.1 Jordan Syatt: I just never really enjoyed it. It just, it was not…


0:30:34.2 Mike Vacanti: But you weren’t power building, you were…


0:30:36.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:30:37.6 Mike Vacanti: You were doing much more single muscle work.


0:30:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Powerlifting.


0:30:42.9 Mike Vacanti: No, much less power…


0:30:43.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you mean with Paul?


0:30:45.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:30:45.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, very isolation-focused, like very muscle work focused. Yeah, correct.


0:30:50.3 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:30:51.1 Jordan Syatt: What about you?


0:30:53.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’ve bulked many times, and they got slightly more successful each time that I did them. The biggest mistake I made early on was just eating too many calories, eating too much dietary fat, and gaining too much fat in a short period of time, cutting the bulk off early, because everybody has a personal preference with how fat they’ll let themselves get intentionally. And you can push that a little bit. But like Jordan said, he hit a ceiling at 160 where you’re like, I can’t keep going like this. Everyone has their own personal ceiling there based on how they look and feel. And once you hit that, it’s hard to continue bulking, and it takes a long time to build muscle. So minimizing fat gain through the process allows you to be in a surplus for longer, like many, many months, if not years. And so controlling your calories and not gaining weight too quickly is really important, which is something I slowly learned over the years. I want to say my first bulk was in 2012 on my own, reading like and eating way too much and eating a giant bowl of ice cream every night with casein protein on top of it. They were fun times. But when was my next bulk? I definitely had one in 2014 or 2015. I bulked in the summer of 2016.


0:32:26.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you got huge that summer.


0:32:29.3 Mike Vacanti: Got big. We were living…


0:32:32.0 Jordan Syatt: You got huge that summer.


0:32:32.6 Mike Vacanti: Well, you were there a bunch of the time and I was out there most of the time. Or no, not summer of 2016. Summer of 2017. No, summer of 2016.


0:32:40.6 Jordan Syatt: 2016.


0:32:41.8 Mike Vacanti: Out with Gary. And that was amazing because we were just working, training our faces off, eating our faces off. And then we were in a nice, we were in nature, right? We were out east. There was the sun. I was taking probably 15 to 20,000 steps a day, eating 4000 plus calories, eating 600 grams of carbs a day. So I was very active. I was sleeping nine hours a night, and I was training hard.


0:33:10.1 Jordan Syatt: Not on a comfortable bed. We shared a bed.


0:33:15.0 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t… Oh, yeah. Yes.


0:33:18.5 Jordan Syatt: You forgot about that.


0:33:19.6 Mike Vacanti: I forgot. I was thinking of a different sun.


0:33:20.0 Jordan Syatt: I guess, when I was traveling you had your own bed but…


0:33:21.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, yeah.


0:33:23.5 Jordan Syatt: When I would come back, we…




0:33:28.9 Mike Vacanti: How did you and Jordan get so close? Well, let me tell you about the time we shared the bed.


0:33:32.8 Jordan Syatt: We shared an air mattress for a summer.




0:33:34.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That was awesome. Yeah. So have I ever bulked? Many times. Patience is huge. Do not expect visual changes, especially shirtless. You can actually expect to look worse shirtless from the beginning of a bulk to the end of a bulk because a natural lifter is just gonna look better with less body fat shirtless. And so you’re gaining muscle, you’re also gaining fat, you’re gonna look a little softer. You’re not gonna like what you see in the mirror, but like strength going up, measurements increasing at the right rates. What you’re doing is you’re adding muscle so that when you go through a fat loss phase, you’re gonna be in a better position than you were when you started the bulk in terms of how you look and how much muscle you have. I don’t think I’ll ever do like an intense bulk again. Never say never. Right? If I ever want to…


0:34:31.0 Jordan Syatt: I could see you being like 47 being like “I’m doing it.” [laughter]


0:34:38.2 Mike Vacanti: The only way I could see that is if I hopped on gear, if I got to an age where I was like, all right, I’m gonna do this, but I don’t like eating that much food. Like with clean eating, we talked about in this episode, it’s not the most comfortable or easy thing. I don’t have the desire I had in my youth to be bigger. I don’t think it’s as cool as I used to think. I just, I’m not motivated for it. The training is very difficult. The amount of volume and intensity that you have to do takes you away from other things in life. So it really is a commitment.


0:35:15.2 Jordan Syatt: You’ve gotta be real angry.


0:35:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Or you gotta manufacture some anger or you have to have real anger. And then if you’re trying to build a business and you’re bulking and you’re spending all your time eating and you need the X amount of sleep per night and you need your recovery on point and you’re just… Do a 90 to 120 minute muscle gain workout. You’re a few phases in, you’ve ramped up volume and you’re taking a bunch of sets close to failure. And then right after that, go try and do three hours of computer work. It’s impossible.




0:35:45.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s what people don’t talk about is how much it taxes you mentally. And so it needs to be your priority. I love coaching people through bulks. I have several clients bulking right now. But yeah, for myself, I don’t know that maybe like a little lean gains approach at some point, but not an all out bulk.


0:36:08.8 Jordan Syatt: If you have a son when your son’s like 18 or a daughter, either one. But like if your kid wants to go through a bulk.


0:36:18.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s okay to generalize, but yeah.


0:36:19.5 Jordan Syatt: Like if your son is like getting big.


0:36:21.7 Mike Vacanti: More men are like I wanna bulk compared to women, but women through muscle gain phases too. Yes. Okay.


0:36:26.1 Jordan Syatt: Obviously, like if you have a son who’s like getting big and he’s like 18, 19 and you see him like getting thick.


0:36:34.5 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:36:34.8 Jordan Syatt: You’re gonna be like “all right, I wanna do that.” “All right, let’s bulk.” You’re gonna be like 54 and you’re just gonna be like, “All right. Yeah. Fuck it. Let’s go. I’m bulking.” [laughter] Like his traps are gonna be getting huge and you’re gonna be like, “all right.”


0:36:56.5 Mike Vacanti: I understand what you’re saying. I mean, I don’t know. We’ll see when the time comes. A parent getting competitive with their child seems like a mindset that I won’t have.


0:37:05.3 Jordan Syatt: No, not competitive, inspired.


0:37:09.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, okay.


0:37:10.6 Jordan Syatt: And you’re just… You’re gonna be like, you’re gonna see how happy…


0:37:13.0 Mike Vacanti: No, I’ll just show him pictures I’ll be, look how… I’ll be like “here son, check out this.”


0:37:18.1 Jordan Syatt: “You think you’re big? Here I am in summer 2016.”


0:37:19.0 Mike Vacanti: “Look at this.”




0:37:28.2 Jordan Syatt: He’s gonna be like “yeah, that’s AI. Nice try.”




0:37:29.9 Mike Vacanti: “Reach out to Uncle Jordan, he’ll tell you he was there.”


0:37:34.3 Jordan Syatt: “I was taking C4 in those days. Those are…”


0:37:40.5 Mike Vacanti: My 54-year-old voice is Bane? Is that what just happened?


0:37:43.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I guess that’s closer to your 94-year-old voice.


0:37:49.6 Mike Vacanti: Is Bane?


0:37:50.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes, yes. “The darkness turns to light.” [laughter]


0:37:57.1 Mike Vacanti: You have to watch True Detective.


0:37:58.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I know, I know, I need to. I forgot what that was. Yeah, okay, I’ll look that up. I was watching Narcos last night.


0:38:04.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s on HBO. Narcos is really good. I didn’t remember it that well when you brought it up, but when you said the darkness turns to light, there’s… One of the protagonists in True Detective season one is like this nihilist, materialist atheist character, but he’s brilliant and he’s also very morally sound and he’s a very likeable character, and he just has a cool arch in the season.


0:38:29.8 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay, all right, I’ll look it up. I’ll watch it next once this Roman Empire is done.


0:38:34.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it’s HBO. So there’s a… There’s a couple of raunchy scenes, but for the most part, it’s very good.


0:38:42.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, there’s raunchy scenes in Narcos, there was like back to back-to-back straight up sex scenes. I mean, it’s hard to get raunchier than Lord of the Rings…


0:38:52.5 Mike Vacanti: Game of Thrones.


0:38:52.6 Jordan Syatt: What’s the fucking… Game of Thrones. That’s… If I was in public and doing cardio and I was like, Jeez, I can’t allow someone…


[overlapping conversation]


0:39:00.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s true.


0:39:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Someone is gonna think I’m just watching straight up porn with this, it was nuts.


0:39:02.9 Mike Vacanti: The way they did it in Game of Thrones though was like, this is what was happening at the time, or maybe I misremembering, but I don’t…


0:39:10.7 Jordan Syatt: In this made up world. [laughter]


0:39:16.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t remember…


0:39:20.2 Jordan Syatt: This is what was happening.


0:39:20.5 Mike Vacanti: No, no. Let me finish my point. It felt more tasteful, it didn’t feel like the intent was like audience arousal, it just felt like it was going on, but it wasn’t like, I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong or maybe… I don’t know, but I can’t think of a scene like Red Woman and John Snow, random girls in the brothel or Tyrion with some chic, I don’t remember any scenes in the show that were like… There was nudity and there was hooking up, but it wasn’t like sexual. I don’t know how to describe it, but in True Detective, it’s like lustful. I don’t know how to describe the difference, but it’s definitely different, it’s definitely like, all right, I don’t need to be watching this.


0:39:58.7 Jordan Syatt: There were some parts in Game of Thrones where I was like, Wow, they just showed complete full frontal and I felt like they didn’t need…


0:40:07.3 Mike Vacanti: Completely unnecessary.


0:40:11.5 Jordan Syatt: I did not need that full frontal.


0:40:14.3 Mike Vacanti: You know what, I’m gonna make a claim right now. Sex scenes are completely unnecessary in all movies and a movie has never been better because of the sex scene.


0:40:30.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Correct.


0:40:31.6 Mike Vacanti: You can have romance in art without being blatant and just showing everything. You can still get your point across and it doesn’t take away from the plot, it almost seems like… I don’t know. If people wanna watch that, then they can go watch porn if they wanna watch that. I don’t need to be watching that. I wanna watch the movie for what other things the movie offers.


0:40:55.6 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know anyone who doesn’t get a little uncomfortable during a sex scene while they’re watching it in a movie, like if you’re in a theater or with your parents or your family, everyone gets a little bit uncomfortable when that happens. I feel like they only do it so that they can put it into the trailer, ’cause in the trailer, you don’t get uncomfortable watching it. In the trailer, it creates more excitement like I gotta see that. You have all this crazy stuff, and that’s one of the flashes in the trailer, and it makes it more marketable, but when it’s actually in the movie, it’s like that literally didn’t contribute at all.


0:41:32.7 Mike Vacanti: Right, right. That’s exactly right.


0:41:32.8 Jordan Syatt: And all I’m thinking about is, how did they do that in front of the whole cast and crew and all the film… Yeah, that’s literally all I’m thinking about is like, I wonder how many takes that took and I don’t know, there’s so much I’m wondering about the two actors involved in that, like did they end up dating after that? Were their partners watching? [laughter]


0:41:54.8 Mike Vacanti: The whole like, Oh, I’m just an actor, during the scene, I don’t know, I’ve never fully bought into that, like this is my job and I’m 100% professional.


0:42:02.8 Jordan Syatt: You’re a human. I don’t know how that works.


0:42:08.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, me neither. Give us another question, Jordan, were just rifling through today.


0:42:15.9 Jordan Syatt: This person said, “should I use pre-workout when I’m on a cut, just as a burst of energy?” I think she’s asking not for actually pre-workout, but just like ’cause she’s tired which I have done that before, but like what do you think?


0:42:37.1 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t recommend it.




0:42:42.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, not as a long-term… That’s something you do at 22. And then when you get older, you are like that’s just a terrible idea.


0:42:51.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah, first of all, there’s just better… Is it cognate… What is the purpose? Are you trying to get computer work done because that’s where my mind goes and your tired and lethargic around it, then there are better compounds you could be taking like caffeine plus Alpha-GPC combination would be better than… You don’t need beta-alanine or you don’t need L-citrulline. Or you don’t need a lot of these ingredients that are in pre-workouts to have the mental energy to do work, if you just mean physiologically, you need energy to get through life and you want pre-workout to go drive to the store and get groceries, then I would argue that there’s something off, which could be you’ve been in a deficit too long, you need to do something around sleep quality and quantity, you’re in too large of a deficit, you’re improperly hydrated, you have micro-nutrient deficiencies from your food choices. Yeah, don’t… Good question. Maybe once in a blue blue moon, let it rip, right? Because we gotta have a little let it rip in us to offset all the science in the world, but for the most part, I would not suggest taking pre-workout to do your daily tasks.


0:44:08.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you worry about total carbs versus net carbs?


0:44:11.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m a clean eater, so I don’t even differentiate as of like a few days ago. No, I don’t worry about it. If I’m tracking, I’m tracking total carbs. I don’t like the idea of you… When you have someone counting macros and you let them count net carbs rather than total carbs, what you’re essentially incentivizing is for them to eat random cookies and protein bars and processed high protein foods that use artificial fiber to get net carbs rather than total carbs or sugar alcohols to get lower net carb relative to total carb. And even though it may be close to technically correct, meaning most of these fibers are between zero and two calories per gram rather than four calories per grams, I don’t want to incentivize a person to be eating a lot of those types of foods. So I’m gonna have a person in that position tracking total carbs rather than net carbs.


0:45:15.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s also… In addition to all of that, it’s also just like you’re trying to find a way to hack the system. The whole thing is just like, all right, well, how can I finego this? How can I hack the system to make it… It’s just everything you said on top of… Any time you’re trying to look for a way to cheat the system, hack the system, it doesn’t work. It’s not good. You get in the mindset of, all right, well, what can I do? Okay, this is a cheat, this is a hack, stop. It’s just not good. It’s not a good mentality to have. And I don’t know, when we’re talking about clean eating, you don’t need to worry about net carbs, you’re getting good stuff anyway, you’re eating a high quality anyway, you’re good. And I think a lot of the times when people are looking for this stuff, they’re just looking for ways to be able to eat like a glutton and eat way more, and it’s okay to not eat like a glutton. It’s okay to not eat a lot more. Maybe just eat this and cool, you’ve hit your calories, have some water. Have some…


0:46:19.9 Mike Vacanti: Do you wanna… I’ll let you take that a step further?


0:46:22.8 Jordan Syatt: Go for it.


0:46:23.2 Mike Vacanti: Not only is it not okay to not eat like a glutton…


0:46:26.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s bad to eat like a glutton.


0:46:29.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:46:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Or just go there.


0:46:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Gluttony is bad.


0:46:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Gluttony is bad. [laughter]


0:46:35.5 Mike Vacanti: And look, if you’ve been listening to this podcast, I was the definition of gluttony from February 12th, from March… From December, 12 to January, 12. Wow. And many times throughout my life, things are better when I do not behave that way, even though it’s easier to behave that way, and it’s especially hard to break yourself out of that cycle, but once you do and you got a little momentum like anything in life, it becomes easier and easier and easier.


0:47:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, gluttony is not good.


0:47:07.1 Mike Vacanti: You spiral up based on your positive habits, or you spiral down based on your negative habits.


0:47:12.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And I think it’s one thing to have a gluttonous moment. It’s another thing to be gluttonous all the time, and that’s an important distinction to be made where it’s like, I think being gluttonous on Thanksgiving is totally fine and probably a good thing, and if you’re scared of being gluttonous, then that might be an issue, but if you’re being gluttonous every day, and you’re just always looking for reasons to be gluttonous, and if not being gluttonous means that you have FOMO, that’s a problem. You don’t need to be gluttonous all the time. And it’s a real problem.


0:47:54.5 Mike Vacanti: I think I agree. I might want to take it a step further which is, you could enjoy Thanksgiving without being gluttonous.


0:48:05.1 Jordan Syatt: No, you can’t. No, you can’t. There’s no way. I’m joking, I’m joking. [laughter] You can, but it’s hard. I love pie, and that’s one of the only times in the year that I really have a pie, so I go hard on the pie and I’m glutton with that pie, but like…


0:48:23.7 Mike Vacanti: Me too.


0:48:24.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you can enjoy it without being gluttonous. You can, but like…


0:48:27.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m the definition of a glutton on Thanksgiving and have been everything Thanksgiving of my life, but I don’t know that it’s right.


0:48:32.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it’s right. It’s right, yeah.


0:48:36.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know that it’s right, something within my intuition tells me that it’s not right.


0:48:41.2 Jordan Syatt: No. Dude, this year’s turducken, or last year’s turducken, I was gluttonous with that too. Worth it. Super good. I’m gonna do that every year. I’m hungry just thinking about it.


0:48:50.4 Mike Vacanti: I think we’re using gluttony in different terms.


0:48:53.5 Jordan Syatt: What do you mean?


0:48:55.0 Mike Vacanti: I think you can overeat without being gluttonous.


0:48:58.5 Jordan Syatt: How?


0:49:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, guess what? It’s not… Wow, this is amazing. If you over-eat on Thanksgiving, you’re not gluttonous.


0:49:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Why?


0:49:07.0 Mike Vacanti: Because the definition of gluttony is habitual excess in eating. Gosh! This is…


0:49:12.3 Jordan Syatt: Wow. All right. Well, that’s actually super helpful.


0:49:16.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, so there’s nothing wrong with overeating on a holiday or enjoying yourself from time to time.


[overlapping conversation]


0:49:21.9 Jordan Syatt: So just doing it on one day technically isn’t gluttony?


0:49:23.4 Mike Vacanti: Technically is not gluttony. So you’re not being gluttonous when you are over…


0:49:25.5 Jordan Syatt: I love that.


0:49:26.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s habitual.


0:49:27.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s really good to know. You were being gluttonous from December to January. But…


0:49:32.6 Mike Vacanti: I need to atone from my gluttony but yes, I was, I was.




0:49:41.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, just for one day.


0:49:41.6 Mike Vacanti: And by the way, Oxford dictionary, “Habitual greed or excess in eating.”


0:49:47.9 Jordan Syatt: The habitual part is the most important part.


0:49:49.6 Mike Vacanti: Wow. Yeah, and gluttony relates to drink as well as food.


0:49:53.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:49:54.8 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.


0:49:56.2 Jordan Syatt: Eggnog.


0:49:56.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:49:57.1 Jordan Syatt: Do you like eggnog?


0:49:57.9 Mike Vacanti: No. I never found it worth the… I don’t love the taste and it’s creamy. No.


0:50:02.6 Jordan Syatt: Well, I knew you didn’t think it was worth the calories, but you don’t like the taste?


0:50:07.3 Mike Vacanti: No, I never got… Things that are very high fat don’t always sit well with me.


0:50:11.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re not a big high fat guy. I remember we would go to Christmas parties for our friends, whatever. Yeah, you can… We know you’re Jewish, but you can come over and celebrate Christmas with us, and I remember the first time I tried eggnog. Dude, I lost it. I was like, “What the fuck is this? Why don’t we have it”


0:50:30.8 Mike Vacanti: You loved it?


0:50:34.2 Jordan Syatt: I loved it. I was like, this is like liquid candy, ice cream… It is… I fell in love with it. And I would like beg my mom to buy it for the house and… It was… Yeah.


0:50:45.8 Mike Vacanti: How much do you think taste preferences are genetic versus upbringing?


0:50:52.3 Jordan Syatt: Probably a lot of both. I would imagine maybe even more upbringing, I think a majority is upbringing, I would imagine. Obviously…


0:51:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Seventy, 80-20 upbringing?


0:51:02.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, probably, if I had to throw that out there, ’cause number one, your taste can change, so it’s like you can develop a taste for coffee, very few people are ever like, oh yeah, I love coffee, but then after they drink it for a while they develop taste, same thing with whiskey, you can change your taste buds to enjoy whatever it is you’re having. That can develop over time. So I think it’s so much more about what you’re habitually exposed to.


0:51:27.4 Mike Vacanti: Highlights the importance of parental involvement in kids nutrition.


0:51:36.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. We did not have… My parents were not educated on that at all, and we just had a lot of… Just a lot of not good stuff.


0:51:46.3 Mike Vacanti: One more quick one?


0:51:48.1 Jordan Syatt: How do you manage your mental health?


0:51:52.8 Mike Vacanti: Doing the right thing, having a routine, physical activity, time outside in nature, social interaction with others, eating healthy, trying to listen to my conscience. I don’t wanna go deep on this because I’m not a professional, I don’t wanna misguide people, but my uneducated opinion would be that in today’s day and age, things like talk therapy and SSRIs and various pills essentially are overrated, not that they’re bad, and not that they don’t have their place, but I think they’re probably overused or over-prescribed or over-relied upon. Yeah.


0:52:53.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you ever struggle with your mental health?


0:52:55.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’ve said this before, the times when I’ve struggled more with my mental health, I could always… Maybe not in the moment, but I could eventually identify the reason, and that was more around feeling anxious, because that generalized anxiety is the thing that experts purport there to be no direct cause, you just feel anxious for no reason, but if I ever felt that way, I could always eventually find a reason, and a bit through behavior modification, be in a better place. Yeah, and I don’t know if any of this is politically correct, what just popped into my mind would be like the good sound bite answer would be like how I’m lucky and how grateful I am to not have to struggle with it.


0:53:54.3 Mike Vacanti: And there’s probably some of that, but I also… I see people who hold on to their mental health disorder as a badge of honor and like to have their victimhood broadcasted to everyone on the internet, and also aren’t simultaneously taking any steps to get better, and their lifestyle is zero physical activity, like eating like absolute trash, not doing any of the right things, spending 20 hours a day on their phone, exaggeration obviously. But I think people can have really hard lives and really bad childhoods and things happen to people that is absolutely not their fault, that lead them to be much more susceptible to these things, and I’m very grateful and thankful that nothing like that happened to me, but then I think there’s another class of people who hold on to these things and don’t try to fix them for whatever reason, maybe because they don’t think that they can. I don’t know.


0:54:58.2 Jordan Syatt: I love that. I Completely agree with all of that.


0:55:01.7 Mike Vacanti: How about you?


0:55:01.8 Jordan Syatt: What was the question, it was how do you improve your mental health?


0:55:04.0 Mike Vacanti: No, it was, I thought it was do you struggle with your mental health or how do you manage your mental health? Let’s look, let’s get it right.


0:55:11.6 Jordan Syatt: How do you manage your mental health? Yeah, yeah, and then I asked if you ever struggled with it? Managing, I think honestly, the managing really comes into the gratitude aspect, where it’s like any time I’m struggling, just thinking about everything that I have and thinking, all right, if I’m struggling, usually I’m struggling thinking about something that I don’t have or how if something was different or something… There was one time, actually, it was something that you said that gave me a lot of perspective, it was when we were on a business trip for when we were writing the book, and it was years ago, but I had a really good routine where I was doing jiu-jitsu every day, and I was getting really good work done.


0:55:52.6 Jordan Syatt: And we were out on this business trip and you were just like, “Man, you’ve got a really good routine back home,” and I was like, “Oh shit, I have a really good routine,” and so whenever I’m thinking about what I don’t have or what could be happening, I’m like, “But my routine now is pretty good, I actually really enjoy what I’m doing.” And so I think so much of the struggle around mental health, at least for me, has always been like, What don’t I have? Or what could be different? And so when I’m just thinking about what I’m grateful for, what I do have, that really is the thing that brings me back, that keeps me centered for sure.


0:56:32.9 Mike Vacanti: Those are two huge points, a routine of positive habits helping you and being grateful as a way to have yourself in a better position mentally.


0:56:47.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:56:47.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. What was the other thought that just popped into my head? One of the things that made me have bad anxiety before I knew what anxiety was, was binge drinking. Like the day after binge drinking, college kinda and not consistently, but there were times, feeling very anxious and just not feeling good, but not knowing what it was, was definitely a cause. And to that, I would say substance abuse is just… Look, people who struggle with substance abuse are struggling with substance abuse for a reason. It’s fun. Consuming the substance is a solution to another problem that they’re having, but it’s rarely, and dare I say never the right solution, because it often creates other problems, and even if they’re drugs that you don’t think are bad, because of the way that the conversations we have too. Like everyone drinks and alcohol has becoming a little less popular, but like weed, weed doesn’t do anything bad, weed isn’t a real drug. Like okay, if you can manage it, great, but a lot of people don’t effectively.


0:58:01.0 Jordan Syatt: No, that’s wrong. Of course, it’s a drug.


0:58:05.0 Mike Vacanti: Well… [chuckle]


0:58:06.5 Jordan Syatt: People are like, “Oh, it’s not addictive.” all right, well, there are different aspects of addiction, but whether you’re smoking… No, it’s not good for you. Anyone who says it’s good… And it doesn’t mean that there can’t be beneficial properties of it. There can be beneficial properties of red wine. Just because overall, it’s not good for you, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t some things about it that might be beneficial for some people in some quantities, but the way that I think most people are doing it and most people are using it, not beneficial. Overall, not net good especially if you’re abusing it. And I think the biggest one is if you can’t function normally without it, that’s I think the biggest caveat. If you feel like without it, you don’t work, that’s the biggest issue, that’s the biggest problem. It’s like if you feel like as a human, you need it, then we’ve got an issue.


0:59:06.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And for anyone who can relate to what Jordan just said, I’ve recommended this book a thousand times, but on Anna Lembke’s Dopamine Nation, book that talks about addiction is one of my favorite books of all time.


0:59:20.6 Jordan Syatt: Sick. Good pod.


0:59:22.3 Mike Vacanti: Great pod.


0:59:23.4 Jordan Syatt: Thank you for listening. We appreciate you. If you enjoyed the podcast, please give a five-star review. If you wanna join the mentorship, you can always do that at the link in the description, you just have to fill out an application and then we’ll have a chat and by say we, Mike will be emailing you, seeing if we’re a good fit, and that’ll be it. Fill out the application, you’ll hear back from Mike within a week or so at most. Have a wonderful day. We’ll talk to you soon.


0:59:48.7 Mike Vacanti: Hey, let’s get it this week, do your workouts, do your strength, do your stretching, do your mobility, do your cardio, do your work, get your sleep, clean eating. It’s 2024, it’s game time. Alright? We’ll see you next week, good bye.


1:00:00.5 Jordan Syatt: See you.

Learn How To Become A Personal Trainer

Join our mailing list to receive the latest episodes and tools to become a personal trainer.

You have Successfully Subscribed!