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In this episode, we do a deep dive on bodybuilders and their training to determine if they are, in fact, athletes. We also discuss Google’s Gemini, Peter Attia’s Outlive, and much more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


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-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.3 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan?


0:00:12.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:13.0 Mike Vacanti: Morning pod, we got a morning pod.


0:00:15.9 Jordan Syatt: You had a great workout this morning.


0:00:17.6 Mike Vacanti: It was above average. You had a busy morning with the launch, with the Inner Circle app launch.


0:00:24.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s a busy morn, it’s a busy morn. It’s gonna be a busy 24 hours.


0:00:29.0 Mike Vacanti: And still posted on the personal trainer Instagram page.


0:00:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. Did you see it?


0:00:33.6 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t, but I bet it’s good.


0:00:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it’s a good one. It was when you were day 11 of no scrolling.


0:00:40.0 Mike Vacanti: Really?


0:00:40.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah.


0:00:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Not this recent no scrolling, a previous one?


0:00:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Probably. It must have been a previous one. At that point, it was day 11.


0:00:48.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay, all right. I’m excited to see what previous Mike was up to.


0:00:53.6 Jordan Syatt: What’s current Mike up to?


0:00:55.0 Mike Vacanti: Just hit a little poll day, hitting two morning pods here. Yeah, man.


0:01:02.5 Jordan Syatt: Can you hear my daughter in the background screaming?


0:01:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Just barely, sounds great.


0:01:05.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay, good.


0:01:05.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s excellent background noise. We have a real list of things to discuss.


0:01:12.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow, are we diving right into a Q&A-er?


0:01:14.9 Mike Vacanti: No, but we have a list of non Q&A-er things and then we have a solid Q&A as well.


0:01:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Love that. All right, what’s the non Q&A things?


0:01:25.0 Mike Vacanti: We have so many options. We have notes from Peter Attia’s book. We have an overrated underrated series, we have a discussion about Google’s new AI Gemini and the woke-related mistakes that it has been making. I don’t know if you’ve seen any of those pictures.


0:01:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ve seen some pictures of that. That’s pretty crazy.


0:01:54.8 Mike Vacanti: Pretty crazy, pretty crazy. We have the Beet Juice story. I don’t know if we’re talking about that yet. I think we’re in the clear, but.


0:02:04.6 Jordan Syatt: No. Let’s give it some time.


0:02:09.6 Jordan Syatt: Let’s give it some time.


0:02:11.0 Mike Vacanti: Okay, okay. I think that’s our list.


0:02:15.0 Jordan Syatt: I love it. It’s a good list. Where do you wanna begin?


0:02:17.6 Mike Vacanti: Where do you wanna begin?


0:02:18.8 Jordan Syatt: Gemini.


0:02:19.4 Mike Vacanti: Yep. So, what have you seen?


0:02:23.0 Jordan Syatt: I’ve seen that Gemini is this AI tool that can create images, and so apparently it had created images of historical figures like people who were real and it changed their race. And I forget who the people were, but it took them from White people to Black people, I think it was. I’m not 100% sure.


0:02:51.0 Mike Vacanti: All kinds of. I saw a prompt for the Founding Fathers of America…


0:03:00.0 Jordan Syatt: No way.


0:03:00.1 Mike Vacanti: And it was a diverse and inclusive group of Founding Fathers, so you had.


0:03:04.8 Jordan Syatt: Shut up.


0:03:06.0 Mike Vacanti: Someone from each race represented as the Founding Fathers. I saw. Because it does the image generator that you described, which is where a lot of these hilarious quote unquote mistakes but to make mistakes that egregious, you’re getting to the point where I don’t know that it was a. Whether or not it was a mistake.


0:03:27.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s what I wonder, yeah.


0:03:30.0 Mike Vacanti: But even just the normal responses to questions similar to what ChatGPT would give are almost like rather than truth or the right answer being its primary default. It’s this diverse and inclusive answer that it’s giving across the board.


0:03:55.1 Jordan Syatt: That in my mind is the biggest fault of AI, period, because as of right now, AI. It learns what it’s told, it’s not like it’s all knowing, it knows what it’s told. And if it’s what it’s told is wrong, then it will say that as though it’s fact, that that’s where. That’s my biggest concern with AI is not like. Not anything, not like crazy, crazy conspiracy stuff but just the fact that people are gonna be taking its answers and it’s lessons as fact when we just. It only knows what it’s been told and whoever is telling it certain things is determining what AI tells us.


0:04:45.2 Mike Vacanti: Correct, correct. So, it’s both how it’s programmed and it’s also where it’s pulling data from.


0:04:52.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yep.


0:04:53.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s only as good or as accurate as those variables as well as other. People have been working. Like very smart people have been working on this for a long time, many years. So, I don’t know all of the factors going into it but I certainly know when you ask it about George Washington’s ethnicity and it spits out like, “There is an argument to be made that George Washington was an African man, and that is based on this factor and this factor and this factor.”


0:05:19.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, geez.


0:05:21.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s like we’ve gotten too far, just complete insanity.


0:05:26.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Holy shit, that’s crazy. Do you remember any of the other pictures? I feel like I saw Genghis Khan in one of them or something, I forget who it was.


0:05:36.0 Mike Vacanti: I saw some other ones that weren’t just race switched photos. I saw something about starving kids and we have all of this extra meat and these kids are dying of starvation, should we give them this meat? And it was like, “No, you shouldn’t give them the meat. Too much meat is unhealthy and it’s unsustainable for the planet.”


0:05:54.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh my gosh. That’s crazy.


0:06:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, just. I’m very hesitant to be relying on any AI to give us truth and, I guess, maybe a little bit afraid, maybe not given how they’re operating right now, but of humans relying on it too much as the arbiter of truth.


0:06:23.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. The hard part with that is there isn’t a single anything that I would rely on as the sole arbiter of truth. Google is. I don’t think is a good source to use. You can find good things on Google, but even the order in which they present various sources is manipulated based on what they want you to see and they’ll suppress certain things. They’ll completely take it off. They’ll remove stuff from Google, YouTube will remove videos from itself, content is removed. That’s one of the really good things about Elon Musk taking over Twitter was the idea that anyone can say whatever they believe and it’s not gonna be censored, whereas there’s no other platform, especially like Silicon Valley platform, that just lets people post whatever. It’s very censored based on the narrative they wanna drive, so whether it’s AI or Google or YouTube or whatever, there isn’t a single thing that I would just take as the sole arbiter of truth. It’s a very interesting time that we’re in.


0:07:29.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I saw a screenshot. I think it was from ZeroHedge which was a blog, like a libertarian blog that I used to read back in my accounting days in like 2009, 2010, 2011, from 2022 where ZeroHedge Twitter account got suspended for hate speech because they used the term illegal aliens.


0:07:57.9 Jordan Syatt: Geez.


0:07:58.9 Mike Vacanti: Which I’m pretty sure was the proper like.


0:08:02.3 Jordan Syatt: That was the term, yeah.


0:08:04.1 Mike Vacanti: That we learned in ninth grade Civics class…


0:08:06.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct.


0:08:06.2 Mike Vacanti: Of what an illegal immigrant in the United States is referred to, like not hateful whatsoever.


0:08:12.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct. It has nothing to do with hate and like that’s. Terms change and what was offensive years ago is no longer offensive and what wasn’t offensive is now offensive. It’s just times change, things changes. That’s why you can’t judge people based on. You can’t judge people in history by today’s standards, and history also includes 10 years ago.


0:08:32.5 Mike Vacanti: And I might be completely head in the sand on this and just uneducated, but is illegal alien not a proper term used now?


0:08:41.9 Jordan Syatt: That is now seen as a highly offensive term and I think it comes from people being like, “They’re not aliens, they’re people.” And so, I think in their mind.


0:08:50.7 Mike Vacanti: Well, of course. The term wasn’t used because they thought that they were from another planet.


0:08:55.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct.


0:08:56.0 Mike Vacanti: That wasn’t the origin of the. What?


0:09:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I think it’s stupid, I think. Listen, I think so much of the highly woke culture is stupid and I think people are looking for reasons to be offended, and this is what happens when you don’t have real problems in your day-to-day as you look for things to just piss you off and all that like if there were real, real problems like if we were at war and people were dying, we wouldn’t be like, oh well, you’re calling them the. No, that wouldn’t be a thing right now. I think it’s when. That’s like the ultimate, ultimate first world super privileged problem where you can start to really nitpick on like, “Well, you’re calling them the wrong name.” All right, stop. Let’s focus on what really matters.


0:09:38.2 Mike Vacanti: But the suspension is actually less ridiculous now to me because I hadn’t even realized that that was an inappropriate term by today’s standards or today’s moral standards, I had thought that was still a correct technical term.


0:09:49.9 Jordan Syatt: I think it is. It just depends on who you talk to. Some people say it’s offensive and some people say no. It’s just logically, this is what we refer to them as and that’s it.


0:09:57.8 Mike Vacanti: It was the header in the textbook, it was on the exam where we had to do the definitions of the word.


0:10:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:10:05.1 Mike Vacanti: That was one of the answers. It wasn’t a matter of subjectivity or personal preference, that was the answer.


0:10:12.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:10:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Outlive! Remember last week or two weeks or three weeks ago and you had asked me if I finished the book and I said that I had finished the book?


0:10:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Yep.


0:10:22.7 Mike Vacanti: I hadn’t actually finished the book.


0:10:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Wow, you pulled a Batman. You pulled my Batman. Remember when I thought I finished.


0:10:28.9 Mike Vacanti: I sure do. You didn’t watch the last 10 minutes. “Man, can’t believe he dies, crazy.” “Huh?” “So yeah, dies. Big explosion over the water. Good movie still but just wasn’t expecting to see him die like that.” Like, “Jordan, go watch the last eight minutes of the movie.”


0:10:53.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, man. All right, so you didn’t actually finish the book.


0:10:56.0 Mike Vacanti: I hadn’t finished the book, I had read the first three quarters of it and then I had read the final chapter but I hadn’t read like the three or four chapters before the last one.


0:11:05.8 Jordan Syatt: How do you. You just skipped the last few chapters and then went right to last one?


0:11:09.6 Mike Vacanti: I did only because it was highly recommended on a couple of podcasts that he had went on.


0:11:16.0 Jordan Syatt: Got it.


0:11:16.8 Mike Vacanti: That you need… The last chapter is very different than the rest of the book and…


0:11:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Is it good?


0:11:21.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, there were good chapters. I just. I felt like I had.


0:11:25.9 Jordan Syatt: No, was the last one a good chapter?


0:11:27.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, was it the last one? Yeah, it was, it was interesting. It was very different than the rest of the book. It was related to his personal mental health struggles and the importance of mental health and emotional health as it relates to health in general because all of the rest of the book is related to physical health, and so it’s a chapter on mental health.


0:11:51.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that makes sense.


0:11:54.0 Mike Vacanti: But there were a couple of interesting things in those final few chapters and I figured since we joked around about it enough, we can give a real quick recap. I think you actually already know the biggest takeaway of the entire book which is shifting our focus from Medicine 2.0 to Medicine 3.0 or basically from reactive medicine to preventative medicine is the single biggest change that would benefit people’s lifespan and health span which kinda bleeds into second biggest takeaway which is that it’s not just how long you live, but it’s also the quality of those years which is something we all know intuitively but was cool to see continuously highlighted throughout the book.


0:12:42.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, makes total sense.


0:12:45.0 Mike Vacanti: So, no need for you to read the rest of it in case you were planning on doing that.


0:12:49.0 Jordan Syatt: I wasn’t. I was getting a little bit bored and I was just like… I was a little bored.


0:12:54.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s very comprehensive, it’s very on the same page with, I would say, 90+ percent of our outlooks on fitness, call it health and fitness. The one area. Not to like nitpick or I guess I’ll put all the positives first, he did a really good job debunking the whole seed oils are making us fat. He did a good job.


0:13:18.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, did he? Oh, that’s good.


0:13:19.8 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. He did a good job with sleep, there’s a really comprehensive chapter on sleep, I would argue as comprehensive or beneficial as an average sleep book. The one place, and I think you know about this or. I think you do, but his emphasis on the use of continuous glucose monitors and the benefits that those have related to health or like. Wasn’t connecting the dots for me. But otherwise, very good.


0:13:58.0 Jordan Syatt: My question. I think he’s highly invested in a company that does CGMs, the continuous glucose monitors. I don’t know for sure but that has led me to wonder, is the push for that at least in part driven by financial gain on the back end?


0:14:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Could be.


0:14:18.1 Jordan Syatt: Do you know who Glucose Goddess is?


0:14:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Nope.


0:14:20.7 Jordan Syatt: Lucky you. You’ve really been in that non-scroll life. She’s this woman, she. It’s crazy, she calls herself a Goddess. But she is all about like not spiking your glucose and she’s been doing this for a year, she’s a huge massive audience, millions of followers and she just recently released this like serum or something that prevents your. That like lowers your blood sugar spikes and it’s so funny just to see just the absolute pinnacle of charlatan come out in regard to. She spent her whole career talking about don’t eat foods that spike her blood sugar, blah, blah, blah, and now she’s like, “Look, this. You can eat cake and it won’t spike your blood sugar as much because of this.” It’s just. It’s like absolute filth and garbage, and it’s just. It’s one of the worst things I’ve ever seen in the industry and. Yeah.


0:15:24.6 Mike Vacanti: Is it something that you consume orally that reduces glucose spikes?


0:15:29.0 Jordan Syatt: I think so. I think you take it around the time that you have a meal. I think it’s a pill, I’m not sure. It’s something that you take and it’s supposed to.


0:15:38.0 Mike Vacanti: She invented it?


0:15:39.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s just natural ingredients. It’s all these national ingredients that are supposed to reduce a blood sugar spike.


0:15:43.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s like a supplement?


0:15:45.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s a supplement that you take around the time you have the meal and it reduces the blood sugar spike which is just. It’s so bad.


0:15:57.0 Mike Vacanti: What’s the Eric Cressey quote?


0:15:58.0 Jordan Syatt: “You know you’ve sold out when you get into the supplement industry.” Yeah.


0:16:05.7 Mike Vacanti: Very often true.


0:16:07.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:16:07.3 Mike Vacanti: Very often true. Very often true.


0:16:08.0 Jordan Syatt: There are just so few supplements that are actually worth your while and worth your money that. This is one of the things I really respect Layne Norton for ’cause he’s in the supplement industry, but I believe he used to sell BCAAs and then he completely removed them from his line of supplements ’cause he was like just. It wasn’t worth it. He was like, “Listen, the science doesn’t back up. Doesn’t back this up enough, so I’m just gonna.” So he completely removed BCAAs, I believe that’s what I was. There were some supplements, I think it was BCAAs. He removed them from his line which is like that takes a tremendous amount of integrity to do.


0:16:46.5 Mike Vacanti: And even before he removed them, I remember him explicitly saying, “These don’t do anything beneficial for you. I know there are people who get a little placebo, I know there are people who really like the flavor and the taste, so they enjoy putting them in their water and it helps them drink more water. But just so you know, these aren’t doing anything for you,” which is also a high integrity move. Yes, obviously there’s ways to do supplements reasonably right but in general.


0:17:15.7 Jordan Syatt: Most people, yeah.


0:17:17.9 Mike Vacanti: When you have your own serum so that you can eat cake and not spike your blood sugar too much.


0:17:22.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. The supplement industry is a real shit-infested industry. It’s not good.


0:17:29.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Dude, what is the proper term? Now, I can’t stop thinking about it. What. Is it illegal immigrant?


0:17:36.1 Jordan Syatt: I think so. But even illegal, I think, is getting a lot of hate where people don’t want. Dude, don’t look at me like that. I’m just telling you what I think I’ve seen.


0:17:46.4 Mike Vacanti: Are you in the wrong eco… Are you like in AOC land or are these normal people who think that calling someone who is an illegal immigrant an illegal immigrant is wrong?


0:17:58.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I think that the number of people who actually believe that it’s wrong are a very small minority but they’re super loud.


0:18:06.0 Mike Vacanti: Got it, got it.


0:18:07.8 Jordan Syatt: So, I don’t think it’s a huge. I could be wrong, I don’t think it’s a huge number of people. “Are you in AOC land,” just coming out.


0:18:15.0 Mike Vacanti: I can’t wrap my head around it. So, this would be the same people who think that BMI is a racist metric?


0:18:24.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.


0:18:27.3 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:18:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Yep.


0:18:29.0 Mike Vacanti: Where will we go next?


0:18:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Where will we go? You never know on the personal trainer part.


0:18:35.9 Mike Vacanti: How to become a personal trainer? Overrated or underrated?


0:18:41.6 Jordan Syatt: Let’s do it.


0:18:43.7 Mike Vacanti: Oatmeal.


0:18:43.8 Jordan Syatt: Underrated. Especially right now. Yeah. I know you’re not really paying attention in the social media world, but.


0:18:49.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I’m paying attention.


0:18:50.9 Jordan Syatt: There’s a big thing that. Are you?


0:18:52.7 Mike Vacanti: No I didn’t.


0:18:53.4 Jordan Syatt: Did you see the big thing that came out. There’s a whole thing that oatmeal makes you infertile recently. That oatmeal, it makes you infertile. And then Paul Saladino is always talking about how oatmeal is like the worst thing you can ever have. Like.


0:19:10.7 Mike Vacanti: What?


0:19:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. There’s a huge number of people who actually think oatmeal is a terrible, terrible thing for you to eat, despite the outrageous amounts of evidence that it’s one of the greatest greatest foods you can have, one of the greatest carbohydrate sources you can have for so many reasons. So it’s very underrated. I’m a huge fan of oats.


0:19:26.7 Mike Vacanti: I also like oatmeal.


0:19:31.7 Jordan Syatt: “I love oats, big fan of Oats. Big fan. Eat ’em everyday.”


0:19:33.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re dialed. You got your Trump impression dialed. I didn’t know that oats were seen as terrible for you. I had thought they were probably. I thought they were probably slightly overrated because I was coming from the perspective of oatmeal is a highly nutritious food that you should start every single day with.


0:19:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Bro Your knowledge of the fitness industry in terms of where people are at is circa like 2015.


0:20:05.4 Mike Vacanti: Good. That’s where.


0:20:06.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s where it sort of ends.


0:20:07.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s where I wanna stay.


0:20:09.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But we’re almost a decade later. So like the overrated underrated, I think I probably would’ve agreed with you in like 2015 based on where people were. But now people are thinking oatmeal is the devil’s breakfast.


0:20:24.8 Mike Vacanti: I might be in 1995. But who’s actually thinking that? Like Paul Saladino is to fitness as BMI’s racist is to culture.


0:20:33.4 Jordan Syatt: Culture. Yeah. Yeah. It’s the other side of it.


0:20:35.1 Mike Vacanti: Like if you ask 10 people on the street, is oatmeal healthy? I would imagine like the over under is gonna be 9.5 on Yes. It’s healthy.


0:20:45.2 Jordan Syatt: Agreed. Yeah. Yeah I Agree. I agree with that.


0:20:45.8 Mike Vacanti: And So there might be like some loud carnivores and like some people who eat bull testicles, who think that oatmeal’s bad for you, but the majority of people, right? Like when you say I’m in 2015, I’m not headline reading what these outrageous, like clickbait-y people are talking about in 2024. Which is.


0:21:08.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s better for you, that’s for sure.


0:21:10.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s definitely better for me. I think it would be better for anyone. And I don’t even think that most of these people who say things like this actually believe it. I would imagine it’s just engagement baiting and working to carve out like some type of audience.


0:21:26.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct. They don’t actually believe it, but the people who follow them end up believing it and like living and dying by it.


0:21:33.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s right. That’s all I had on my overrated underrated list.


0:21:37.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s it. Oatmeal.


0:21:38.3 Mike Vacanti: But we can just make things up.


0:21:42.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Overrated, underrated face pulls.


0:21:45.1 Mike Vacanti: See, here’s the thing about overrated underrated. You have to know where culture’s at to be able to answer. So tell me what do people think of face pulls? And then I’ll tell you if.


0:21:54.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m asking. No, I’m just gonna give you your. You can go off of your 1995 position, and then I’ll give insight into current day.


0:22:04.3 Mike Vacanti: Face pulls have to be underrated. I mean, even in the little bit of training stuff that I see I just don’t. I still don’t see enough emphasis on rear delt training in terms of exercise selection for the rear delts. And that’s assuming you’re doing like a rear delt variation. You can do a higher face pull variation where your hands actually come back at about the same level as your elbows, where you end up hitting more mid trap and even a little bit of lower trap, which I really like. Yeah. Face pulls are underrated.


0:22:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. You know what’s funny? Your immediate thought went to rear delt my immediate thought goes to rather than like one of the muscles, it more thinks about the benefits, right? So it’s like sort of like how in the mentorship when we talk about sales, we talk about facts versus benefits, right? And understanding the difference between facts and benefits. When you’re running a launch, you’re trying to run a sale. Most people focus on the fact and not enough on the benefit. My immediate thought goes to postural improvement, shoulder health. Like doing more pulling as opposed to pushing. Like there’s so many benefits with face pulls. And my also immediate thought in terms of muscle, like goes rhomboid, low mid trap. And so I completely agree. It’s very underrated for all of those reasons, for sure. It’s just interesting how we could talk about the same exact exercise and the immediate pictures in our heads go sort of differently, which is reminiscent of society as a whole. But I agree.


0:23:54.4 Mike Vacanti: Well. But It’s just step one because it’s at least implied for me that training those muscles are good for your posture and that we don’t train those muscles enough. Right? Like we could say, yeah, don’t horizontal press versus pull at a three to one ratio because those are the muscles you see in the mirror and you wanna have a big chest. And that’s cool. The benefits are implied and I get on a podcast and of people who might not know that explicitly stating them is a good idea. Respectfully. I mean, I don’t know. You’re stating it for a reason, I assume, but underrated.


0:24:31.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah super underrated.


0:24:33.8 Mike Vacanti: Because training those muscles have benefits. We wouldn’t train those muscles if they didn’t have benefits.


0:24:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct. That’s true.


0:24:40.4 Mike Vacanti: One might. But.


0:24:42.9 Jordan Syatt: Are there any muscles that we shouldn’t train? Are there any muscles that don’t get benefit from training? Oh, I got one.


0:24:48.2 Mike Vacanti: What is it?


0:24:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Bladder.


0:24:52.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh.


0:24:52.1 Jordan Syatt: You shouldn’t train that. The more you train it, the weaker it gets, you know what I mean?


0:24:52.6 Mike Vacanti: You wanted to talk about this? I don’t.


0:24:55.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh. I actually didn’t even think about that, but yeah, I do. That’s. Dude, I was telling you that. What a transition by the way. What an absolute perfect transition. I’ve been really trying to drink more water, but I realize getting full from the water is only like 20% of why I don’t really enjoy it. The worst part is how badly I have to piss so frequently.


0:25:22.4 Mike Vacanti: How Frequently?


0:25:22.5 Jordan Syatt: And I feel like. Dude, right now I’ve gotta pee super bad. And we’ve only been sitting down for 40, 35 minutes.


0:25:32.2 Mike Vacanti: When You were drinking a lot of water, how often were you peeing?


0:25:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, every 10 minutes.


0:25:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Okay. That seems like an exaggeration.


0:25:48.6 Jordan Syatt: Every 10 waking minutes. Not every 10 sleeping minutes.


0:25:48.6 Mike Vacanti: Well That’s still a lot of minutes. Or not very many. It’s a lot of peeing.


0:25:54.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s all super clear. It’s great.


0:26:00.1 Mike Vacanti: You’re definitely right that drinking more water.


0:26:01.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s great.


0:26:01.1 Mike Vacanti: You’re definitely right that drinking more water leads to having to go to the bathroom more. Absolutely.


0:26:07.9 Jordan Syatt: Way more.


0:26:09.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Before you’d said every 15 minutes, every 10 minutes. If we had a camera on you, I don’t know that it would be that often. Literally.


0:26:19.4 Jordan Syatt: Whoa, don’t get a camera on me when I’m using the bathroom. You perv.


0:26:20.4 Mike Vacanti: The benefits outweigh the costs. The cost is simply time. Right. That’s the only inconvenience. Is you gotta walk to a bathroom and realistically, if we had a camera on you and then the camera stopped being on you once you walked in the bathroom, but if we had a camera on you at all times of the day, otherwise, I would say that maybe you’re peeing every 45 to 60. Like maybe you’re going once an hour. It might not even be that often. Which is definitely more than.


0:26:54.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it’s definitely at the very least that often.


0:26:56.7 Mike Vacanti: Waking hours. Jordan sleeps about eight hours a night, so that’s 16 pees a day. I doubt it, but you could prove me wrong, but I doubt it.


0:27:04.5 Jordan Syatt: I’ll prove you wrong. I’ll FaceTime you every time I pee.


0:27:09.0 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:27:10.6 Jordan Syatt: Video on my face.


0:27:13.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that. Please. Yeah. That’s one of the costs for sure. But it’s just time. And all of the benefits of staying properly hydrated certainly outweigh those costs. That’s why anytime you have someone who does long podcast, two, three, four hour podcasts, anytime they have an elite athlete on, there’s a discussion around having to go to the bathroom because they usually have to take two or three breaks during the podcast because whether it’s Lance Armstrong or whoever, just drinking lots of water.


0:27:47.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. It’s just not comfy. But how often do you pee?


0:27:50.6 Mike Vacanti: If I’m drinking, I don’t keep track.


0:27:55.1 Jordan Syatt: ‘Cause You’re always hydrated.


0:27:56.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t keep track.


0:27:58.5 Jordan Syatt: When was the last time you were dehydrated?


0:27:58.7 Mike Vacanti: Every morning.


0:27:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Alright. But I mean daily, like not after sleeping.


0:28:06.6 Mike Vacanti: You mean like when did I not drink enough water for an extended period of time?


0:28:07.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Outside of sleeping.


0:28:09.8 Mike Vacanti: So for like weeks I would just be under hydrated and not really know it or pay attention to it.


0:28:14.9 Jordan Syatt: Not necessarily weeks, but like for like a day or two.


0:28:19.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. There was. Probably somewhat recently when I just wasn’t thinking about drinking water, didn’t have access, was on the go, didn’t properly plan. Yeah.


0:28:28.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you feel it like do you feel it when you’re not hydrated? Can you feel mentally, physically?


0:28:34.4 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Both. I can feel it in a workout if I’m not properly hydrated and I can feel it working if I’m not properly hydrated, like doing computer work. But using the bathroom more often is just. It’s part of the game you just said it’s really uncomfortable. That leads me to believe that it’s not just the inconvenience of going to the bathroom more often, but there’s actually physical discomfort from having a full bladder more often.


0:28:56.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Especially if I’m driving, I gotta pull over. I got the seatbelt wrapped around my bladder, dude. Not fun.


0:29:07.7 Mike Vacanti: Maybe there’s.


0:29:08.4 Jordan Syatt: But you’ve gotta do it. You’ve gotta do it for yourself.


0:29:09.1 Mike Vacanti: There’s probably…


0:29:09.1 Jordan Syatt: So it’s gotta be done.


0:29:09.1 Mike Vacanti: There’s probably a happy medium right?


0:29:10.4 Jordan Syatt: There’s no medium with hydration, Michael. It’s gotta be maximum or nothing. Always maximum. Always.


0:29:22.7 Mike Vacanti: Let’s. You wanna do a couple Q&A?


0:29:26.2 Jordan Syatt: You wanna do another overrated, underrated?


0:29:26.3 Mike Vacanti: Sure.


0:29:26.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Overrated, underrated. Owning an online fitness business, being your own boss, running your own, like having like an online business as opposed to anything else that you could be doing. Not even just in-person coaching, but online fitness business.


0:29:41.5 Mike Vacanti: I think it’s too related to the temperament of the individual. And what I mean by that is for some people it’s massively underrated and for some people it’s probably slightly overrated. Overall, I would say that it’s underrated, assuming the amount of effort and time and patience that it takes to go from not having a business to having a business that sustains a reasonable lifestyle.


0:30:23.5 Jordan Syatt: Who do you think it’s slightly overrated for? Like what type of person?


0:30:30.7 Mike Vacanti: I think it’s slightly overrated for a type of person who is happy in a 9:00 to 5:00, who is terrible at self-motivation and self-discipline. Likes having a boss like.


0:30:47.6 Jordan Syatt: What? The way you just emphasize terrible was who is just terrible at.


0:30:57.8 Mike Vacanti: Because you are your own boss. Like you don’t have someone barking at you to do what you need to do everyday. Someone who is okay with the structure and. Like lack of freedom associated with most traditional jobs. You enjoy sitting under fluorescent lights and like with bad posture and I’m reflecting on my own experience in corporate America, but having. Every Monday what did you do this weekend, every Tuesday you talk about the weather every Wednesday. Oh, it’s hump day every Thursday you’re like oh, the weekend’s coming every Friday. What are you gonna do this weekend? And then you repeat that every single week for 40 years if you’re into that. Basically people who really like corporate culture. People who are good at politicking corporate culture and enjoy it, I suppose because when you have your own business, merit is rewarded one-to-one maybe not immediately, but over the long run, your effort compiles and the market rewards you, whereas you can be the best employee by 3X, whoever the worst employee is, and you’re not getting 3X the salary that year. If you’re both at the same level, you might get a few percentage points higher raise, but yeah. So mostly underrated.


0:32:33.4 Jordan Syatt: I agree. Because the benefits I think by and large it’s underrated. But I also think there are parts of it that are overrated or at the very least misunderstood. I think that the longer you do it and longer you do it, generally it’s to more success the more underrated it becomes. But I think people assume that they’ll get the benefits of doing it for a long time after a very brief period of time. Which is like. So I think the beginning is overrated and later on is underrated. And I think that the benefits you get are very much worth it if you are willing and able to go through that very difficult beginning period. And I think that for the people, it’s not good for are the people who feel very entitled to success early on. If you have a sense of entitlement to make a certain amount of money or succeed at really any level early on, it’s not a good idea.


0:33:46.6 Jordan Syatt: Like it’s much better for you to work for somebody else where you get predefined payment, predefined workload, predefined work times, and it’s very clear, this is what you get because this is what you’re putting in and this is what we’ve agreed upon. If you are the kind of person that doesn’t have any entitlement and doesn’t have any ego, not even any ego, but relatively small ego, and you’re okay with putting in a tremendous amount of work upfront for literally zero pay. And also you are the kind of person that you have to have a certain level of grit and rough skin in turn or tough skin, like where you don’t let things bother you as much, things can still bother you, but it can’t bother you as much as it does for a lot of other people. Whether it’s people disagreeing with you, people thinking you’re stupid, people not wanting to work, like whatever it is you have to have a level of toughness to you where if you’re objective and honest.


0:34:49.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I just. I don’t have that level of toughness. And it also… I think it could be toughness, but also the ability to. Even if it bothers you, that’s okay. As long as you keep going and keep giving it a shot. It’s okay if something bothers you, even if you don’t have tough skin. But it’s not okay if you just quit once something difficult happens. I think a lot of people are. If you need an HR department to have a discussion because you’re upset about what someone said to you, not a good fit. If you need the HR department, you need someone to sit you down and have mediation because someone said something that really upset you. Don’t do this. There’s no HR department and no one gives a fuck including your HR department, but that’s their job. So they’ve gotta do it. But there’s no HR department in this. So dude, I’m so glad that I don’t have a business that requires me to have an HR department. I just, oh my gosh. Could you imagine? So.


0:35:54.0 Mike Vacanti: Or you don’t work for a business with an HR department?


0:35:54.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Gosh. Yeah. Did you have an HR department when you were.


0:36:02.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh yeah.


0:36:02.4 Jordan Syatt: What was. I’ve never worked with a business. Like how did that work? Did they have meetings? Was there ever any issues with HR? Did they send out memos?


0:36:11.7 Mike Vacanti: The only time I remember having any kind of conversation with HR was when I was quitting after my two years. And she was like really digging, trying to figure out my plans. What firm are you going to? Are you going to a different one of our competition, da, da, da, da, da. And I had no idea what I was gonna do. I was like no, I just don’t wanna do this anymore and so I’m gonna go do something else.


0:36:39.0 Jordan Syatt: She thought you were lying. She was like no, where are you going?


0:36:39.6 Mike Vacanti: At first she thought I was lying. And then I remember her like kinda laughing at me during the exit interview like.


0:36:47.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh geez.


0:36:48.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, you’re just leaving and you don’t know what you’re doing. Like no one does that. And that was like five years of workload in and of itself.


0:36:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Anger.


0:37:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, like okay. Alright. You’ll see. Yeah.


0:37:05.1 Jordan Syatt: That just gave you fire for those next five years.


0:37:07.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. At least. Yeah.


0:37:10.4 Jordan Syatt: Did you have to have an exit interview? Is that required?


0:37:12.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. I was still working there and she put it on my calendar and you got to turn your computer in.


0:37:18.3 Jordan Syatt: : So you gave your two weeks notice and they’re like, all right. How did you give your two weeks notice? Did you email?


0:37:25.2 Mike Vacanti: Yes, I sent.


0:37:25.2 Jordan Syatt: Did you tell someone, like, how did that work?


0:37:27.0 Mike Vacanti: I sent an email on a Friday at like 5.00 PM.


0:37:30.1 Jordan Syatt: What did you say?


0:37:34.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. I probably Googled how to quit a job and like had a very basic email template just putting in my two weeks notice. Thank you.


0:37:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Were you nervous coming in the next Monday?


0:37:48.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, probably slightly, probably slightly.


0:37:50.3 Jordan Syatt: And did anyone come up to you and be like, what’s going on? Like, why are you leaving?


0:37:54.9 Mike Vacanti: Man, it’s really a blur. All I really remember is this woman’s face from HR and the smirk on her face when I was telling her, I might try this, I might try this as far as like business ideas because she was really grilling me on what my next plans were. And the feeling of walking out of the building on my last day at like two thirty in the afternoon on a summer day, beautiful weather in July, just like weighed off my shoulder, the most free I’ve ever felt in my entire life.


0:38:36.5 Jordan Syatt: Was there anyone there that you were friends with that like you actually liked or no?


0:38:40.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, a buddy I’m still friends with. Matt Wilson is his name. He was one of the early, early investors before us in, why am I blanking on the name of the company? The food.


0:38:55.9 Jordan Syatt: Counter?


0:38:56.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, Counter.


0:38:58.9 Jordan Syatt: He’s a real good guy?


0:39:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I had I had friends there, people I started with.


0:39:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Did you tell them before you gave your two weeks or you told them after?


0:39:09.4 Mike Vacanti: I probably didn’t tell anyone. I kept everything very close to the vest, like in general.


0:39:13.2 Jordan Syatt: Got it.


0:39:16.1 Mike Vacanti: But overall, I agree with you. Underrated online fitness business. But going into it with proper expectations, actually having a desire to help people not expecting to get rich immediately, which is why it’s so funny that so many of these like business coaches advertise, make 40K in your first month, use these systems. Otherwise, we’ll coach you for free if you don’t pay us 10 K up front. And then it’s all like. Obviously, it works in terms of marketing because there are enough people who are like, oh, I want to make this much money.


0:39:51.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:39:51.2 Mike Vacanti: But. And we’ve helped, you know, hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands at this point of coaches. The ones who succeed aren’t the ones who come out the gate trying to make as much money as possible ever.


0:40:05.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I was telling you the other day, I was talking to a buddy who joined one of those mastermind gurus, like paid almost $10,000 up front. And I was like, how is it? And he was just like, dude, not good. Just not good. So much of it is nonsense. So if you want to apply to join the mentorship, where you can actually learn to be a great coach and help people and also learn over many years how to build your business, you can apply. Link is in the show notes. But don’t expect the mastermind guru nonsense.


0:40:42.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:40:43.0 Jordan Syatt: Should we do a Q&A?


0:40:44.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, let’s do a. You know, we’re going to film another one after this. Maybe let’s rapid fire a couple.


0:40:50.6 Jordan Syatt: All right. This is a good question. I actually spoke with Susan about this. We had a good talk. Do you consider bodybuilders to be athletes? And if you want, you can Google search the definition of athlete, just so.


0:41:01.6 Mike Vacanti: So we’re working with the same thing.


0:41:03.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:41:04.8 Mike Vacanti: “A person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise in the Google sport. We’re going to get the definition of a sport.”


0:41:14.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, the Merriam-Webster dictionary version is a really good one.


0:41:18.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m going with Google because Gemini is my truth. “An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against others for entertainment.”


0:41:35.2 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. That’s not the definition I went off of.


0:41:38.1 Mike Vacanti: So yes, my initial gut reaction is no, bodybuilders aren’t athletic generally. Like there are some, but those are the exception. Bodybuilders are extremely aesthetic and have amazing proportions and lots of muscle and very little body fat. But if you think of like your average bodybuilder, like running a route and catching a pass or trying to like cross over dribble and shoot a jump shot, like it looks pretty ugly. But given the fact that given the definition of sport and the definition of athlete, yeah, because bodybuilding technically based on this definition is a sport and an athlete is a person who’s proficient in sports and bodybuilders are proficient in bodybuilding. So technically yes, but you know.


0:42:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I was going with Merriam-Webster and it says the definition of an athlete is “a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports or games requiring physical strength, agility or stamina.” So by that definition, I also agree that bodybuilders are athletes. Here’s what I would say. Here’s my view of it. They are athletes, but on the continuum of athleticism, they are all like among the lowest end of that, right? And for the same reason that you look at a running back or you look at a soccer player or you look at a lacrosse player or a hockey player, if we’re looking at a well-rounded athlete, that essentially means they can do so many things.


0:43:27.1 Jordan Syatt: A well-rounded athlete is someone who can express and display so many characteristics of athleticism. They can be strong. They can be fast. They can be explosive. They have agility. They have endurance. The more well-rounded of an athlete you are, the more you can display and do at a higher level. Bodybuilders are very one-dimensional athletes. They are very good at one specific thing. Whereas a football player is very good, especially like a running back is very good at many different things. And you could take a running back and in pretty brief period of time, they could probably be a very high-level bodybuilder. You couldn’t take a bodybuilder and expect them to be a very good running back in the same amount of time or even potentially any period of time. So I think that yes, they’re athletes, but on the continuum of athleticism, they are very low compared to most other people who would be considered athletes. And that’s by the nature of what they need to do to prepare for their sport. By the nature of what a bodybuilder has to do to prepare for their sport, it’s incredibly one-dimensional. They don’t need to be a well-rounded athlete. They just need to be very specifically good at one thing. Whereas football players, basketball players, hockey players, martial artists, whatever, they need to have so many areas of athleticism.


0:45:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I think that’s absolutely right. I think a good way to put it in that running back example would be that it would be easier for a running back to compete in bodybuilding than it would be for a high-level running back to compete in bodybuilding. Then it would be for a high-level bodybuilder to compete as a running back at a high level.


0:45:27.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct. Agreed.


0:45:29.6 Mike Vacanti: That being said. I still. That doesn’t say anything about, the sport of bodybuilding or what I think of bodybuilders, but more of a semantic based on the definition of athlete.


0:45:44.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah. No, it doesn’t change what I think about bodybuilders, but it’s a fact. We could even, if we wanted to, we could categorize which athletes are the most athletic and which ones are the least and have a whole continuum based on the demands of their sport.


0:46:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, right.


0:46:01.7 Jordan Syatt: I would say, for example that.


0:46:06.7 Mike Vacanti: Sorry, real quick. We have that continuum, right? And bodybuilders are at the low end of the athletic continuum compared to high-level athletes in other sports. I would still say that the overwhelming majority of the population is on the less athletic side compared to bodybuilders.


0:46:22.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. The overall majority of the population, yeah, for sure.


0:46:26.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Of course. That’s a no-brainer.


0:46:27.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Susan brought up a good one because she was talking about NASCAR drivers and is that a sport? And the way I think about it is because when you look at the actual sport, yeah, they’re just driving, which is, I would say, more of a skill. But in order to train for that skill, for example, all the forces that are on their neck, they need to do a lot of strength training in order to withstand that force, a lot of grip training in order to hold the steering wheel properly over that amount of time and at those speeds and those forces. So there’s a lot of training that goes into being good and being able to sustain that skill and do that sport. But then again, in terms of the continuum, a NASCAR driver’s training is very one-dimensional. They’re not going to be as athletic as, I would say, probably a NASCAR driver is probably not as athletic as a bodybuilder in many ways because their training is so one-dimensional relative to athletes further along the continuum.


0:47:33.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah, that’s absolutely right.


0:47:34.8 Jordan Syatt: Who do you think is the most athletic?


0:47:37.5 Mike Vacanti: Let’s lead off the next podcast talking about who is the most athletic.


0:47:42.6 Jordan Syatt: Love that.


0:47:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Jordan can take a pee. I’m going to finish my muscle milk.


0:47:46.1 Jordan Syatt: Thank you.


0:47:46.8 Mike Vacanti: Everyone have a great week. We’ll be back next Tuesday. Many of you have left five star reviews recently, Apple, Spotify. It really helps the podcast reach more people. Jordan and I are greatly appreciative of you. Thank you very much for those five star reviews. See you next week.

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