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In this episode, we discuss God, The Old Testament, stress management, the Syatt metric for business success, and much, MUCH more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.9 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.5 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:13.5 Mike Vacanti: What are you eating?


0:00:14.9 Jordan Syatt: Bro, you’re not gonna believe it. How about you guess? You can see it, but I don’t know if you’re gonna guess what it is.


0:00:19.6 Mike Vacanti: I mean, there’s a reason I asked, I don’t know what it is. It looks like some kind of chocolate bar, but it’s not. I’m guessing it’s some kind of like either a higher in protein than normal/higher than in fiber than normal chocolate bar.


0:00:33.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re right. It’s a protein option. It’s a protein bar. It’s a built, this is not a sponsor, all right? Builders, you know the…


0:00:41.6 Mike Vacanti: CLIF Builders.


0:00:42.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:00:42.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m familiar.


0:00:43.8 Jordan Syatt: The mint chocolate one, super good.


0:00:49.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m guessing like 20 protein, 10-ish… Well, it said 20 protein on the front, but 20 protein, aren’t those fats are like in the 5-12 range? And they’re higher carb, I remember. I wanna say like north of 25-30 carb.


0:01:03.3 Jordan Syatt: Bro, you’re good. 20 protein, 31 carb, 9 fat.


0:01:07.4 Mike Vacanti: I gave pretty big ranges. I went quite safe. Can’t take too much credit there.


0:01:11.1 Jordan Syatt: Delicious.


0:01:12.5 Mike Vacanti: Atta boy. You’re on a high, you’re dialed. Did you dial in your nutrition?


0:01:17.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:01:19.2 Mike Vacanti: You’re going higher meal frequency, higher protein, lower calorie than I’ve seen in a while.


0:01:25.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I got a little bit fatter than I wanted to be. I got a little bit fatter than I wanted to be, so I was like, all right, let’s just dial it in a little bit.


0:01:31.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s a good way to do it. You got to the top of your maintenance range that you’re comfortable with, and now you’re dialing in.


0:01:37.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s it.


0:01:38.0 Mike Vacanti: I love it.


0:01:38.9 Jordan Syatt: I feel like you’re always dialed, like your nutrition dial meter is just always on dialed. It’s just always on point with occasional moments in which you snack a little bit more, but…


0:01:52.9 Mike Vacanti: I appreciate you hyping me up. I don’t think that’s true.


0:01:55.9 Jordan Syatt: I’m your hype man.


0:01:57.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m more dialed than average certainly, but not always dialed.


0:02:00.8 Jordan Syatt: But I feel like you’re more dialed than even the average fitness professional.


0:02:05.0 Mike Vacanti: Definitely. The average fitness professional…




0:02:08.4 Mike Vacanti: Well, the average fitness professional, like this could be a whole conversation. There’s a lot going on there. One is, you from 2017 to 2019 where you have business so hyper-focused that your own fitness takes a backstage, which makes sense, and is totally understandable. There’s another variation of the dialed fitness professional who sadly has their own issues with food or exercise where you could get away with it more and in like the non-social media era or the less social media era. But we’ll go hard and take lots of pictures when they’re in really top tier shape, but then most of the time isn’t in that kinda shape. And it can be, when you’re grinding, when you’re training clients in-person and you have 4:00 AM or 5:00 AM wake ups, and you have a awkward midday break and you have clients going until nine o’clock at night and you gotta clean up the gym and shut down, your sleep is limited. Like you’re on your feet that much, you’re not wanting to work out during the day, I understand it.


0:03:13.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I get it. You’re just on another level.


0:03:18.8 Mike Vacanti: Okay. All right. Enough.


0:03:20.5 Jordan Syatt: How was your lift today?


0:03:21.6 Mike Vacanti: It was really good.


0:03:22.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, was it? You had a good lift?


0:03:24.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It was very good.


0:03:25.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice. Upper body pull. Sick pump.


0:03:29.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. There were some sick pumps went with more exercises, fewer working sets per exercise, which just generally leads to me feeling better and same outcomes.


0:03:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Better outcomes.


0:03:43.1 Mike Vacanti: Same outcomes in terms of…


0:03:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Physiologically.


0:03:46.1 Mike Vacanti: Maybe better out, maybe better outcomes actually. Yeah.


0:03:51.1 Jordan Syatt: I have a lot here. Dude, can we just, I have to toot my own horn.


0:03:56.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, please.


0:03:57.8 Jordan Syatt: Social media, personal trainer, social media. Are you kidding me?


0:04:01.5 Mike Vacanti: Dude, you are on absolute fire, picking…


[overlapping conversation]


0:04:06.1 Mike Vacanti: Banger clips, shout out David for putting together those banger clips. You’re picking out the banger clips, you’re posting them consistent Sunday, Monday, Tuesday mornings. We have a real routine. I don’t think you’ve missed, and I don’t remember the last time you missed weeks, months maybe.


0:04:24.3 Jordan Syatt: No, I don’t know. I’m just on a… I’m in a real, a real streak right now. And I’m feeling good about it, so I just wanted to bring that up. And thanks for everyone who’s engaging on the posts, on YouTube, on Instagram, how to be a personal trainer or personal trainer podcast, personal trainer podcast on Instagram. Thank you.


0:04:43.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. We appreciate the hearts and the comments and watching over there as well. Yeah, man, you’re crushing.


0:04:52.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:04:53.6 Mike Vacanti: You really, you really found a system that works in terms of time of day…


0:04:56.5 Jordan Syatt: You found a system that works…


0:04:58.5 Mike Vacanti: You found it.


0:04:58.6 Jordan Syatt: And then you tried to make me think that I found it. You found it. You tried Motivational Interviewing me.


0:05:03.6 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t try.


0:05:03.7 Jordan Syatt: You were the one who… [laughter]


0:05:05.8 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t try. I didn’t.




0:05:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:05:12.3 Mike Vacanti: And it worked. You, you know yourself and your schedule well enough to know that those are the times that would work. And the days that would work.


0:05:19.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Instill enough fear in me, it’ll get done.




0:05:26.2 Mike Vacanti: On a scale of 1-100, where a 100 is max and 1 is min, where are you on both fear and anger right now in life?


0:05:35.2 Jordan Syatt: All right. On a scale of 1-100, anger, I’m at like 12.


0:05:42.0 Mike Vacanti: You’re that low on anger?


0:05:42.5 Jordan Syatt: Super low. Well, maybe a little bit higher after that Q and A where you just had like the mentorship Q and A, and some, like, someone was talking about like…


0:05:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Virality.


0:05:52.0 Jordan Syatt: Someone that they were reading, they were talking about the importance of virality and I just lost it because going viral is just so overrated.


0:05:58.3 Mike Vacanti: I disagree. That wasn’t even real anger. That was passion because you were imparting a lesson.


0:06:03.7 Jordan Syatt: I was angry and you even pulled me in. You’re like all right, let’s, let’s not get too angry on this one. You like let it off. Just ’cause you could tell that I was angry. Yeah, but that was like, yeah. So…


0:06:15.8 Mike Vacanti: It was a good, it was an important lesson that going viral isn’t gonna help your business like most coaches who are getting started think it will help your business. And that the brick by brick approach leads to the sturdy, steady foundation and house that lasts for generations rather than the tall, narrow house built on sand that tips over.


0:06:35.3 Jordan Syatt: The biz gurus who are telling you that how to go viral are the same shit sticks as the people who are like trying to tell someone to use an ice bath to get a six pack and like to, it’s just, it’s nonsense. It’s just, yeah. And going viral is so overrated as opposed to just building a small audience of people who really love and care about you than trying to go viral. It’s just a terrible strategy. So yeah. So my 12 might even be inflated from that anger. Like I might even be lower than that.


0:07:07.6 Mike Vacanti: Where are you at on…


0:07:07.9 Jordan Syatt: Fear’s high. Fear’s high.


0:07:09.2 Mike Vacanti: In life was a bad ’cause obviously, you’re not an… But okay, fear 80?


0:07:15.1 Jordan Syatt: Fear is like high 80s.


0:07:19.5 Mike Vacanti: 88?


0:07:20.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Probably 88.


0:07:22.8 Mike Vacanti: And what is going on there? What’s that driven by primarily?


0:07:26.5 Jordan Syatt: There’s so much going on, just like there’s just so much to be fearful of in my life right now. Not in everybody else’s life, but in my… I’ve got another daughter on the way fearful. Right? Also, like so much chaos and so much fear, but also so much joy. Right? So you’ve got that. All these Instagram posts popping up about all the awful things that can happen to your children based on whether it’s a predator or even just a fucking toy that they chew on and they choke on and then it obstructs their airway or it obstructs their fucking bowels. It’s just like…


0:08:02.9 Mike Vacanti: You know what? I mean…


0:08:05.3 Jordan Syatt: It could always, you know. Terrifying.


0:08:06.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Fearing. What’s interesting is that for all of human history, this is the safest time and of, in…


0:08:17.9 Jordan Syatt: 100%.


0:08:18.9 Mike Vacanti: Texas a very safe place for a child to be brought up.


0:08:22.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:08:22.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s interesting that the mechanism of information consumption leads to more fear despite it being a, in relative terms a very safe time, but makes sense.


0:08:36.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So, I mean, there’s that…


0:08:39.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re driven by fear in general. It’s all… Do you like having high fear levels?


0:08:44.0 Jordan Syatt: I, from like an emotion perspective, I hate it. From a productivity perspective, I thrive on it. Like I am, I know behaviorally it’s good from a productivity perspective. I know from a probably a health and longevity perspective, it’s terrible. And…


0:09:02.7 Mike Vacanti: Day-to-day enjoyment level.


0:09:04.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, I still enjoy life a lot. Like I’m pretty good with that. I just know there’ll be moments where I like, I’m like, ah, fuck. Just gotta fucking do it. Just kidding. [laughter] Like oh shit, let’s go, like get it done. And then I’ll do it. I’m okay, cool. Now I can relax. But…


0:09:20.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s almost…


0:09:20.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s not like I’m just walking around fucking petrified all day.


0:09:22.8 Mike Vacanti: No, no. That’s not what we’re saying.


0:09:24.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah.


0:09:25.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s almost like your anger of the 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 shifted at some point.


0:09:34.0 Jordan Syatt: To fear.


0:09:35.0 Mike Vacanti: Or maybe they were bo maybe they were both there and now the anger’s gone.


0:09:38.6 Jordan Syatt: I think they were both there, but I think it’s almost like the anger was in order to achieve it. And then once you achieve a level, you get scared of losing it. And so much of my fear comes from losing, like family, losing whatever. So the anger drove me to create it. And then once it was created, including daughter, like my family, then the fear of losing it is, that’s what’s scary. Right? So it’s like, it’s I feel like I’m so content now with what I have that I’m not angry enough to build more. I’m just scared of losing it. Does that make sense?


0:10:23.1 Mike Vacanti: 100%. And in the earlier days when you “had less,” there was less to be afraid of because there was less to lose.


0:10:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Exactly.


0:10:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.


0:10:31.1 Jordan Syatt: Where’s your anger at, 1-100?


0:10:35.3 Mike Vacanti: Three. It would probably be at 1 if I didn’t watch Braveheart yesterday on the plane and I’m all riled up. Sensational movie.


0:10:45.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s your fear at?


0:10:49.7 Mike Vacanti: I remember when COVID was first starting and We had a podcast and we very candidly talked about this in April of 2020. And I remember feedback we got on the episode of because you were… You expressed some worry and it was very transparent and vulnerable discussion and we didn’t know what was going on and there was some worry…


0:11:21.9 Jordan Syatt: I don’t remember this at all. Okay.


0:11:23.6 Mike Vacanti: Well, I distinctly remember not being afraid, and that’s not a brag at even in the least bit. It was just how I was… Like, but basically the email was like, “yeah, whatever, Mike, but like Jordan like you are so amazing for having the courage to express that you’re afraid. Like for a man to be able to do that is amazing.” Which I agree. Vulnerability is really good if it’s honest, like that was but I don’t know, my fear levels are very low.


0:11:52.7 Jordan Syatt: Even lower than your anger?


0:11:54.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:11:55.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay. What emotions are high?


0:11:57.9 Mike Vacanti: A lot of peace. A lot of contentment.


0:12:00.5 Jordan Syatt: All right. You’re just a fucking monk.


0:12:02.3 Mike Vacanti: No, some boredom, some maybe some like… I don’t know, man. I got a lot of pre-workout in me right now. I feel great. I had a good lift. I had some almonds. I, everyone’s happy and healthy right now. I am very fortunate, very grateful. And that can turn on a dime. So.


0:12:24.7 Jordan Syatt: So you have no negative emotions right now?


0:12:27.1 Mike Vacanti: No, I definitely probably have some.




0:12:29.6 Jordan Syatt: You definitely probably.




0:12:34.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m talking to my boy, I like, we’re partying.


0:12:37.0 Jordan Syatt: Definitely probably. Yeah.


0:12:37.7 Mike Vacanti: We had a good Q and A.


0:12:39.0 Jordan Syatt: Definitely probably.


0:12:40.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know, negative emotions?


0:12:42.4 Jordan Syatt: I mean, if you don’t… Yeah. You don’t have them. Dude, that’s, I’m jealous. You’re killing it.


0:12:46.4 Mike Vacanti: Am I?


0:12:47.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:12:48.0 Mike Vacanti: A little bit of gasoline makes the fire go a blaze.




0:12:56.8 Mike Vacanti: Right?


0:12:57.1 Jordan Syatt: Sure.


0:12:57.6 Mike Vacanti: We’ve talked about, you know, anger 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 very powerful fuel to the point where even when you’ve resolved issues, it’s tempting to manufacture anger to push yourself to greater levels. Yeah. I’m excited is an emotion I have.


0:13:19.4 Jordan Syatt: What are you excited for?


0:13:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Every day.


0:13:22.1 Jordan Syatt: The pump?




0:13:23.7 Mike Vacanti: The pump. No, I don’t know. You know what? Oh okay. Here’s an observation that I have made recently that could be classified as negative emotion. I’ve started to understand why there’s a cliche that hope is for the youth, and that kinda as you get older, maybe you lose hope or like increase cynicism as you get older.


0:13:52.9 Jordan Syatt: Why? Is it like all about like the election and everything?




0:13:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Jordan just steers it right into it. “Because of the election?”


0:14:00.2 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know where… [laughter] That’s the only thing I could think of. [laughter]


0:14:08.1 Mike Vacanti: No, not specifically related to that. More just pattern recognition on people’s mindsets at different ages and speaking in averages of course.


0:14:18.5 Jordan Syatt: So there’s nothing in particular that you’re feeling cynical about?


0:14:22.6 Mike Vacanti: You know, I think as you get older you just realize the, how finite life is. And when you’re younger, you think you have time to do anything and everything you want to do. And maybe as you get older, you start to realize that you have, and maybe this is just me, that you have to prioritize and make sacrifices.


0:14:44.7 Jordan Syatt: That makes sense. Is there anything that you want to do that you feel like too old to do?


0:14:48.7 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s nothing specific. It’s just a realization that you can’t do everything. I don’t even know, I don’t know what I’m talking about right now. It’s more observation rather than personal…


0:15:04.4 Jordan Syatt: Got it.


0:15:04.5 Mike Vacanti: Like related to me specifically. Yeah.


0:15:07.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay. That makes sense.


0:15:09.7 Mike Vacanti: All right. We have several things here before the Q and A.


0:15:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Emails?


0:15:16.3 Mike Vacanti: No, not emails, just things I wrote in a notepad to talk about on the podcast. Do you have anything, by the way? You have been doing a pretty good job of that lately.


0:15:21.6 Jordan Syatt: No, I just, I was tooting my horn about posting on our Instagram and YouTube. That was really it.


0:15:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Pick a number 1-6.


0:15:32.5 Jordan Syatt: Four.


0:15:33.6 Mike Vacanti: All right. The fourth thing on this list. Ah, okay. So you know how there’s research now that states that… Let me back up for a second. It used to be common advice that to motivate yourself to accomplish something, you would make a public declaration and that that would hold you accountable to do it.


0:15:53.6 Jordan Syatt: Yep.


0:15:54.3 Mike Vacanti: And then there’s, there’s been some research, it’s not even that recent, but that you act… Because you get a dopamine sensation from the positive feedback of the announcement, that it might reduce your likelihood of accomplishing that thing.


0:16:05.3 Jordan Syatt: Yep.


0:16:05.9 Mike Vacanti: And an aha moment that I think there’s a split on who that strategy works for and who the strategy doesn’t work for based on how much you care about public opinion.


0:16:20.2 Jordan Syatt: That makes sense.


0:16:21.0 Mike Vacanti: ‘Cause I heard someone talk about this who very clearly like really cares about his reputation and like what the internet thinks of him.


0:16:30.5 Jordan Syatt: Do I not like this person? Is this who I’m thinking of?


0:16:34.6 Mike Vacanti: No, I don’t know if it’s who you’re thinking of, but it’s… I don’t know who you’re thinking of. You can say it and we’ll bleep it.


0:16:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Is it the person that we’ve spoken about that…


0:16:41.4 Mike Vacanti: We’ve talked… People come up in conversation, you can just say it and we’ll bleep it.


0:16:47.1 Jordan Syatt: [Redacted]


0:16:47.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:16:47.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I was right. Okay.


0:16:48.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.




0:16:49.9 Jordan Syatt: David, bleep that person’s name out. But yeah, I was right. Okay.




0:16:56.1 Mike Vacanti: And basically, the pattern recognition I picked up on it was, it’s an effective strategy for people who care about what… Like if I make a grand announcement and then I don’t do the thing that I said I was gonna do and I really care of what people think, then it would motivate me to do the thing. But I can’t even count on one hand the number of times I’ve said something, I’m back. I’m posting again. Like whatever it is, and it has created no accountability or motivation or… So it’s funny, I think it depends on your personality type, whether or not a public declaration would be an effective strategy to commit yourself to a task or a project or an idea or if it would be better for you not to say anything, but just to let your actions speak for you. And there’s no right or… There’s no like better or worse or right or wrong. It’s just knowing yourself knowing…


0:17:58.9 Jordan Syatt: Knowing yourself. Yeah.


0:18:00.7 Mike Vacanti: And knowing what strategy is gonna propel you to do things.


0:18:03.4 Jordan Syatt: I feel like for you, that like pushed you further away from it. Like when you’d be like I’m back, I’m gonna make content. And then people would be like, yes, I can’t wait for more. And then you’d be like, I’m not gonna do it. [laughter] People would be like, I’m so excited to see your stuff every week. And you’d be like, all right, well, then I’m not gonna make it. [laughter]


0:18:24.8 Mike Vacanti: It makes me pretty sad when you frame it like that. When you state it like that it makes me kind of feel bad, to be honest.




0:18:34.8 Mike Vacanti: But, but we make weekly content here and I’ve found a strategy that has led to great consistency. We’ve been weekly, we missed one week in December, but otherwise, we’re going on like a year and a half every single week and five years of quite good consistency, yeah, it’s knowing yourself and knowing what works for you.


0:18:54.0 Jordan Syatt: I also feel like this content, like specifically this podcast, the deal was like it had to be fun. Like it had to be enjoyable.


0:19:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Still is.


0:19:02.0 Jordan Syatt: And like that’s the best part. Whereas like Instagram content, you don’t like doing it and you don’t like nevermind doing it. You also don’t like the medium in terms of the vortex, it can get you in once you’re on there, whether you’re posting or not. And then the feedback, like it’s, it’s just not a good medium. Whereas this is like it’s fun to create and we don’t get like the immediate… Like we’re not in a vortex afterwards. We fucking talk and then we leave.


0:19:29.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s that, it’s also that I don’t enjoy… I don’t need or want to grow my… Like the mentorship is a scalable business for us. It’s a membership. One-on-one coaching is an unscalable business. I don’t want to grow my unscalable business right now ’cause I’m happy with where it is.


0:19:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Right. Right.


0:19:54.2 Mike Vacanti: And I also don’t wanna make content for any other reason, like posting on Instagram then marketing. And if I don’t want to grow my business and I don’t wanna make content for any other reason, like getting feedback like you know? Or just posting to post or like keeping up with the joke. Like the reasons why many average, like non-business people post on social media, definitely not all, ’cause a lot of them. Yeah.




0:20:25.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. The main reason, the only reason you wanna post is marketing, but you don’t wanna market ’cause you don’t wanna grow the business. So why would you be posting if that’s… Yeah. So it makes total sense.


0:20:36.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But this is fun. And like you said, that is… I mean, the amount of effort that you and I put into growing the mentorship on a scale of, let’s go back to our 1-100 scale. We jump on a podcast that we basically don’t plan anything for for one hour out of 168 hours per week. And that’s the marketing.


0:21:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Yep. That’s it.


0:21:03.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s fun.


0:21:04.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:21:06.4 Mike Vacanti: All right. Should we dive into Q and A?


0:21:07.9 Jordan Syatt: No, let’s do another question.


0:21:08.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, you’re picking it? [chuckle] Okay. All right.


0:21:11.8 Jordan Syatt: Two.


0:21:12.6 Mike Vacanti: All right. Shout out my guy Danny Miranda, who put me onto this idea. I realized that we, that I and many people that I listen to now, use language that is counter to what it actually means, which I think has a negative impact on everything.


0:21:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:21:39.3 Mike Vacanti: Meaning I’m happy as hell.


0:21:45.6 Jordan Syatt: What? What does that mean?


0:21:49.1 Mike Vacanti: Hell? Like you’re trying to say you’re really happy, you’re happy as hell.


0:21:52.5 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.


0:21:53.8 Mike Vacanti: Sick is an example, I heard. Oh, that’s sick. And I used to say this all the time. That’s sick. If I think something is really cool or really awesome, why would I then bring it down with something that’s terrible? Sickness. This like inverted language that became patterned in society. Another one I was typing to a client. You’re killing it. Keep killing it. I always say that. You’re not killing, like we’re not killing, you’re dominating. You’re doing great. You’re doing awesome. I’m gonna try and use more accurate language.


0:22:28.3 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know if I agree with this one.


0:22:30.1 Mike Vacanti: I know you wouldn’t. This is way too woo. You’ll agree with it in seven years, but I didn’t expect you to.




0:22:36.3 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know, man. This one’s definitely beyond me right now. This is…


0:22:40.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s okay. Pick a new number.


0:22:42.8 Jordan Syatt: Hold on. I mean, you just wanna skip right over it? Not even have a conversation? [laughter]


0:22:48.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You can let this marinate for a little bit.


0:22:50.7 Jordan Syatt: All right. Let me let this marinate because…


0:22:52.9 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Yep.


0:22:57.7 Jordan Syatt: This one’s tough for me to swallow.


0:23:00.1 Mike Vacanti: I believe it.


0:23:00.2 Jordan Syatt: And I’m not even swallowing it. You know what I mean?


0:23:01.7 Mike Vacanti: I believe it. You’re just chilling. Pick another number.




0:23:07.0 Jordan Syatt: Let’s go with 1.


0:23:07.1 Mike Vacanti: All right. I’ve got a client who I’ve been working with for some time. It’s a dude. Wanted to lose body fat, get stronger over the course of several months, made some progress, re-comped a little bit. Waist measurements came down a little, made great progress in the gym, technique in terms of strength, like really solid, but not a lot of weight loss and not necessarily as much body recomposition as you’d expect for what his intake was. And we did something that you and I suggest, you know, I would argue every other week on mentorship Q and As in situations like this, which is I want you to not only send me your food logs every single day for the additional accountability that that offers, but I want you to take a picture of every single food that you eat. Whether it’s a… I don’t care if it’s a sip of water, if it’s a drink of alcohol, if it’s your breakfast, if it’s one bite of beef jerky, I want a picture of every single thing that you’re eating. And in less than three weeks scales down eight pounds.


0:24:22.5 Jordan Syatt: Wow.


0:24:23.6 Mike Vacanti: And he is crushing. And I don’t think he listens to the podcast, but you know who you are and you’re dominating, if you are listening.




0:24:35.0 Mike Vacanti: I wanted to say killing it there. But there’s an important lesson here, and it isn’t… Like I think a lot of maybe newer coaches might hear that and be like, oh, like there’s a level of dishonesty or there’s a level of whether it’s willful blindness or just mistakes around tracking. Because there were a couple of small things that we cleaned up by having picture and food log side by side and asking, you know? Was there oil here, butter here? The main takeaway was he was doing a really, really good job during the week. And then there were a few meals out where he wasn’t tracking them and they were much, much higher calorie meals than he would’ve expected them to be, not tracking them. And so the simple act of, and it’s a real commitment on the client side, but it works, taking a picture of every single thing you’re eating and emailing it to a coach for accountability.


0:25:39.4 Jordan Syatt: So did he email it and then you were like, bro, that’s a fucking huge meal. Or was he like, you know what? I’m not gonna eat this because I have to take a picture.


0:25:49.5 Mike Vacanti: I said that I wanted to help him plan what he was gonna get at any restaurant if he could let me know at least that, a day in advance.


0:26:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:26:01.4 Mike Vacanti: And I believe it was Friday of the first week, I might be wrong on this, but he said, I wanna go to Benihana tomorrow night or tonight, I don’t remember. And I said, cool. Like what are you planning on getting? And we started going through and he told me what he was planning on getting, and I know Benihana extremely well. So I started asking questions like, okay, well, what will you get? Like the shrimp appetizer that comes with it? Will you get the miso soup and the salad? Will you get, will you get fried rice or go with white rice? Will you get a sushi appetizer? Will it be actual sushi or sashimi or a roll? If it’s a roll, what kind of roll will it be? You know? Ice cream at the end that comes with it and going through everything and knowing like the amount of oil they put on their vegetables, the amount of butter they slap on when they’re making the fried rice.


0:26:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Bro, the fried rice is so good. So much butter.


0:26:53.0 Mike Vacanti: A pretty casual meal at Benihana that seems like, you know, an app with a little soup and scallops and chicken with vegetables and some rice, it seems like a reasonable meal is actually a 3,000-plus calorie meal. And so identifying that, and I said, go to Benihana, but probably skip this or have this instead of this. And had some suggestions. And the next day he said, you know, I just decided not to go to Benihana. Sent me his picture of his normal meal that he made, and that was that, Friday, Saturday, Sunday goes by. But then the next week he picked a different restaurant. And when he went to that restaurant got lower calorie things, they had calories on the menu, sent pictures of everything, basically is more mindful around tracking and choosing which restaurant he’s eating out at. And… Yeah.


0:27:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Was he going to Benihana with people or just by himself?


0:27:51.2 Mike Vacanti: With someone.


0:27:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Got it. Okay. And he was like yeah, nevermind. Got it. I mean, good for him. That’s amazing. I love that. And that’s just super good coaching too, of just being like, all right, let’s take the pictures. And then it’s not just like sending you pictures, but also just the real time, all right, here are your options. This is what’s gonna happen. Here’s what you can do instead. It was a really good example of very high quality coaching where so much of “macros coaching” done nowadays is where people are like, all right, just here’s what you eat. Here’s how much. And then they let you go. But they don’t talk about the actual, the planning, the discussion, the research that the coach has to do. I think that was a really good example of what a good coach is gonna do.


0:28:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Thank you, Jordan.


0:28:37.0 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t know you were such a big Benihana guy.


0:28:39.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh yeah.


0:28:39.8 Jordan Syatt: How do you know Benihana so well?


0:28:41.5 Mike Vacanti: In high school they had a lunch special. It was like $9 and it was basically the same as a dinner entree with just a little bit of a smaller portion. We would go on either Saturday or Sunday.


0:28:51.6 Jordan Syatt: You and your family?


0:28:52.5 Mike Vacanti: No, but my friends.


0:28:54.7 Jordan Syatt: You and your friends would go to Benihana every Saturday or Sunday?


0:28:57.3 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm.


0:28:57.9 Jordan Syatt: Would you get alcohol?


0:28:58.0 Mike Vacanti: Did we drink alcohol? No, I didn’t drink in high school.


0:29:01.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. So you’d just go to Benihana and chill and just eat.


0:29:04.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Get like a diet Coke and enjoy, eat, throw some ice on the hot stove and watch it sizzle.


0:29:10.9 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Man, I didn’t know you were Benihana guy.


0:29:15.1 Mike Vacanti: Yum. Yum. Sauce adds up.




0:29:19.3 Mike Vacanti: Why is that funny?




0:29:21.0 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s funny because I just think about who decided to name it that, and in what fucking board meeting were they like, “all right, these stupid Americans we’re just gonna name this Yum Yum Sauce and they’ll fucking love…”




0:29:33.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s pretty good.


0:29:36.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s just like who thought of this name? And it’s actually a genius name, but it’s like actually hilarious. And I would love to know how they came up, yeah, we’re gonna call it Yum Yum Sauce.




0:29:48.7 Mike Vacanti: Good marketing. Good marketing.


0:29:54.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:29:54.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Do you wanna talk about anything else or should…


0:29:54.8 Jordan Syatt: So we’ve got one, two, three, four.


0:29:56.9 Mike Vacanti: No, we don’t have to do more. This is not, this isn’t that kind of content?


0:29:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay. You want me to pull up the questions?


0:30:01.2 Mike Vacanti: I think we should pull up the questions.


0:30:03.6 Jordan Syatt: Also, and before the question I was thinking about like why my fear is higher, another thing, just launched the new Inner Circle app and like, dude…


0:30:13.4 Mike Vacanti: How’s it going?


0:30:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Launching a new app… I mean, it’s good, but also like, you know, there’s a lot of tech inside of it. So there’s the workouts, the videos, nutrition tracker, barcode scanner, consistency calendar, weight… Like literally this is a one-size-fits-all nutrition app. And as you know, when you launch tech, like there are bugs and issues with it, and the more shit that’s in it the more bugs and stuff there are gonna be.


0:30:43.1 Mike Vacanti: Is your developer on top of it?


0:30:45.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. We have a full-time dev team now that’s like on it constantly, which is like great. But there’s also the… There are some people who are in the Inner Circle who are like, Hey, I’m in tech, I understand there are bugs. Like not a problem. Da da da da. And they’re fixing it literally everyday. They’re fixing the bugs. They’re on top of it nonstop. There are other people who are like, What the fuck? And I’m like… The fear of like, oh, shit, maybe they’re gonna leave da, da, da, da. So like that is, and then like also they’re DMing me, they’re emailing Susan, they’re emailing Kat, they’re emailing the dev team. Like they’re posting in the Facebook group, what’s going on? Like it’s nonstop. So that’s it.


0:31:25.6 Mike Vacanti: How many days has it been? Like less than a week, right?


0:31:32.0 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s been exactly a week. I think. Oh wait…


0:31:35.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude…


0:31:37.1 Jordan Syatt: You know what? I think it’s less than a week.


0:31:38.9 Mike Vacanti: The number of people who… Like that’s like a loud minority situation right there. Most people…


0:31:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, yeah.


0:31:45.0 Mike Vacanti: Are chill about that kind of thing. People who are chill aren’t gonna be making posts saying, Hey, app’s down, but I’m super cool with it. Hope everyone’s having a great day. Like that’s not a post someone makes, it’s just the less than 1% of people.


0:31:56.0 Jordan Syatt: To be fair, there were some people that were, it was actually really cool. Like there were like 20% of people who were having trouble logging in. And one of the women who’s having trouble logging in, she was like, well, a lot of us are struggling, so like, how’s everyone doing? And like literally just made a thread about that. And this woman was so nice, she was like, I actually wanna take the… Let’s make a whole thread about how much we appreciate Jordan and Susan. And it was just like…


0:32:17.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.


0:32:17.7 Jordan Syatt: The nicest thing ever, which was great. But as someone motivated by fear, seeing all like the negative stuff, I was like oh shit, we gotta get on this. So that’s another thing why cortisol is high right now.


0:32:31.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Which makes complete sense. Any kind of launch combined with new tech and like… That makes sense. Maybe we just cut this completely or not, or maybe we just go…


0:32:43.5 Jordan Syatt: We don’t have to cut it, let’s not cut it.


0:32:44.4 Mike Vacanti: Maybe we go vague on this. I’m not trying to blow you up, but it might be an interesting discussion. Do you know what your margins are? Like the fact that you said…


0:32:54.7 Jordan Syatt: You know me like what a ridiculous question.




0:33:00.0 Mike Vacanti: The fact that you said dev team, my mind went to, oh man, like I knew he was paying to have the app built, but I wasn’t thinking about recurring cost of a dev full-time dev team combined with…


0:33:15.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s a lot.


0:33:16.8 Mike Vacanti: Videographer, like other…


0:33:19.5 Jordan Syatt: Podcast producer.


0:33:20.1 Mike Vacanti: Other employees…


[overlapping conversation]


0:33:21.8 Jordan Syatt: Virtual assistant. Yeah.


0:33:23.4 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Yep.


0:33:23.7 Jordan Syatt: Susan. Yeah.


0:33:24.4 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Yep. If you were to take your base costs, and though you know, a base cost for an online coach, it’s like you’re website hosting. Like they’re very minimal, but we see a lot of people who…


0:33:40.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, super small.


0:33:41.2 Mike Vacanti: Who idolize or, I don’t know, aspire towards having memberships from a very early stage and just giving a realistic look at… I don’t need numbers, but if we can maybe get it on a percentage basis.


0:33:58.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean, it was actually funny because the last year, closer to a year ago than now, but within the last year, there was someone in the Facebook group who was like, man, like look how many members there are. Like Jordan’s really like raking it in or something. And they didn’t understand, number one, that we don’t kick members out. So not all of the members are active paying members. And then people in the comments were like no, [chuckle] people were… There were a lot of comments on that one. But people were like, well, you have to remember it’s not like all profit. Like there’s so much that goes into it. So like we said videographer, dev team, app development, like all this stuff that goes into it. So I don’t know what… I have no clue, but…


0:34:42.9 Mike Vacanti: The takeaway is it’s not all profit. There’s a lot of expenses, and that’s not even getting into personal expenses more each family.


0:34:55.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Correct.


0:34:55.9 Mike Vacanti: Like, you know, car, like all these other things. It’s interesting. It’s interesting to think about the potential options, knowing what you want, knowing yourself and making the decision.


0:35:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean, I’ll also say like there are pros and cons with everything. But if you’re chasing the lowest stress lifestyle for the highest possible… Highest income and lowest stress, a membership is not the way to go.




0:35:36.9 Mike Vacanti: As…


0:35:37.1 Jordan Syatt: It’s just…


0:35:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Let’s name that, the Syatt Metric, Income to Cortisol Ratio.


0:35:43.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, sure. We could go with that. But like people think that this low cost membership is gonna be, like this idea of scalability leads to outrageous amounts of income and outrageous amounts of freedom. And in some ways it does and in other ways it doesn’t. And there’s a cost to everything.


0:36:07.6 Mike Vacanti: You had way more freedom when you had a full roster of one-on-one online.


0:36:11.7 Jordan Syatt: I could be anywhere I wanted at any point in time doing whatever I… Like, yeah, there’s way more freedom.


0:36:17.5 Mike Vacanti: But the downside is every additional client is a one-to-one ratio more of your time.


0:36:23.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct. Exactly.


0:36:26.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So it only scales to a certain level.


0:36:29.4 Jordan Syatt: And, you know, the famous quote like, more money, more problems. I know I said that whiter than anybody, but it’s the bigger your business gets and the more people you have, the more problems you’re gonna have. [chuckle] The more stress, the more fires you have to put out. The bigger it gets, the bigger your operation gets, the way more difficult it becomes. And the bigger it gets, the more you’re going to need other people. Like it just inherently, so it’s like, it’s definitely not as… The people who say they want a big business or they want to create an empire and also think…


0:37:09.8 Mike Vacanti: You know yourself.


0:37:10.8 Jordan Syatt: You don’t know yourself, but you also don’t know… You don’t know what that means. It’s sort of like the people who think, oh, I’m gonna build this big business just so that they can walk away from it. Then you don’t want a big business [chuckle] because like if you can walk away from it, it’s gonna be a long, long time and it’s probably not gonna be what you think. So…


0:37:29.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s why Gary had a two to, two-plus year window, maybe even longer, where he described himself as a firefighter because all he did all day was put out fires. As CEO and chairman, this email’s a fire, this text is a fire, this call is a fire. Every single thing is just put out fire, put out fire, put out fire, put out fire. And some people are built for that. And he is.


0:37:52.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. He’s good. He’s good. He can really compartmentalize super well.


0:37:58.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s interesting to me. Another interesting phenotype of aspiring online coach is not just the, I wanna build a big business, but I wanna have a big audience.


0:38:14.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:38:14.9 Mike Vacanti: Like, I want the fame and I want the accolades, and I want the numbers is also an interesting starting place.


0:38:26.1 Jordan Syatt: There’s also… It’s so funny ’cause I remember being like, oh man, it’d be so cool if when I’m out, people like, recognize me and like, wanting that. And it’s such a blessing. It’s like an unbelievable blessing when someone recognizes you and comes up and says, oh, you’ve helped me so much. Like, it’s the most amazing thing. But also it’s unnerving in some ways, especially now that I have a family because it’s like, I’m out and like people see me with my wife and daughter and like, you know how fucking protective I get and how like I’m looking out my window, there a car like, dude, it’s, it gets to a point where I’m like, I wish… And I’m nobody relative to like a real famous person, but like, even the little bit that I’ll get recognized, it’s like, it’s unnerving thinking about the risks that it poses. I can’t even imagine being on Gary’s level or on like a real famous actor’s level. Like, oh my gosh. It’s, yeah. If I could not be recognized at all, I would take that any day over being recognized. Like, just, again, it doesn’t take away from how special it is and how wonderful it feels…


0:39:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Of course.


0:39:38.0 Jordan Syatt: Purely from like the safety perspective for my family more than anything. And for like the… You immediately have a target on your back, immediately. And it never goes away.


0:39:48.2 Mike Vacanti: You don’t wanna take back the good things that you’ve done for those people and how much you’ve helped those people and take that back, but just the public recognition piece of it.


0:40:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:40:00.9 Mike Vacanti: If there was a way for that not to happen. Yeah.


0:40:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, yeah.


0:40:04.6 Mike Vacanti: Questions? Or should we just keep riffing?


0:40:07.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m…


0:40:08.3 Mike Vacanti: Let’s do a couple questions. I feel like we… That’s our system, that’s our setup. Consistency.


0:40:16.1 Jordan Syatt: All right. Someone said, “How do I manage my stress better?” How do you manage your stress, Michael? I feel like you’re very good at managing stress.


0:40:25.7 Mike Vacanti: I think that I don’t know if I do this naturally or if I learned it somewhere along the way and internalized it, so I don’t know if I get credit or not, but I really don’t focus much on things that are outside of my control. So I’m really good at like, letting worries kind of just go float away that I can’t take an action against to rectify the situation or to move, move it in a direction. You know, over the years as I’ve gotten older, I’ve focused more habits around health rather than just around vanity or aesthetics or how it makes me feel like a lot of health and fitness habits are now centered around health. So getting enough sleep, getting high quality sleep. I don’t really like the taste or the way alcohol makes me feel. So not really drinking, healthier food choices, recognizing things that just make me feel better and be better and leaning into those, caffeine management. I don’t know. I don’t know if these are good answers. I’m trying to think of…


0:41:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dude, they’re great answers.


0:41:48.5 Mike Vacanti: They’re more of high level like how to prepare myself to handle stressful situations when they pop up. What do you think?


0:42:00.5 Jordan Syatt: I’m just trying to think of questions to ask about that. ‘Cause like, those are very like, straightforward. You know, you don’t drink alcohol. You are very aware of how much caffeine you have. That was something that for me, you know, you’re a numbers guy. You’re very aware, like you track this stuff. I had never really tracked caffeine until you were like, dude, like maybe try bringing your caffeine down, ’cause like I’d be like, dude, I’m fucking anxious. You’re like, how much caffeine did you have? And I’d be like, oh, not that much. I don’t know, like this much. And he’d be like, hold on, you had this, this, this, this, bro, you’re at like 550 mg of caffeine. I’d be like, oh shit. And that’s like five times, like what I thought I had. And so tracking stuff like that was helpful for me because then I realized when I kept my caffeine lower, obviously that was super helpful for stress. And you need way less caffeine in order to get the same benefit when you really bring that down for a while, which has been wonderful.


0:43:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Your sleep quality improves too.


0:43:02.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:43:02.6 Mike Vacanti: Which has a positive, positive feedback loop.


0:43:02.7 Jordan Syatt: Especially because you’re not just laying, not laying in bed just up, just like fall to bed, fall asleep way more quickly.


0:43:13.1 Mike Vacanti: You used to do that a lot. You used to be up really late on your phone, I feel like.


0:43:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I’ve also gotten much better about putting my phone down. Like, I don’t really just stay up very rarely while I just stay up looking at my phone. I’ve gotten much better at breaking the scroll cycle and just putting it down.


0:43:20.1 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:43:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ve gotten much better at that. And dude, I haven’t… You know what’s actually helped with that is I really haven’t been drinking much at all lately.


0:43:36.4 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:43:38.7 Jordan Syatt: For no other reason than just, I just haven’t wanted to, which honestly like a big one. Dude, I remember you laughed when I brought it up, but my skin was getting really fucked up from the alcohol.


0:43:50.1 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t know… I didn’t know, I thought you were coming at it from like a vanity perspective and you were like… [chuckle]


0:43:55.9 Jordan Syatt: No, it like burned. Like my skin was like burning ’cause it was so dry. And the alcohol was really drying it out. And so like, literally like my face would hurt. And so since I stopped drinking, like that’s actually, it’s felt really good. My wife literally today, she was like, your skin looks so much better since you haven’t been drinking. Which has been great. It is interesting though ’cause at night, like I still do want a drink. Like, I really do like alcohol. Like I really enjoy it. I like just having a drink and just relaxing and reading and stuff. But it’s like, you know, all right…


0:44:29.8 Mike Vacanti: Not one.


0:44:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Well, I know tomorrow my… It’s not worth the pain tomorrow. It’s, like the burning is just not worth it. So that’s been where I’ve been recently with that.


0:44:40.9 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:44:41.1 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know, it’s not, not discussing stress at all. But…


0:44:43.6 Mike Vacanti: No, but I would imagine that has had a positive effect.


0:44:50.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:44:50.3 Mike Vacanti: I mean you’re… Alcohol helps many people who like to drink, helps them manage stress while they’re drinking, but then has the negative effects the next day.


0:45:02.6 Jordan Syatt: I think for me, ’cause I’ve been reading the Old Testament a lot, like trying to every night I’ve been missing it. Last night, I missed it and I think the night before I missed it as well, but I’ve been reading like almost every night, the Old Testament and like, just like leaning more into it as well. And like in conversations with God and then people are like, oh, why is this turning into a religious pod? It’s not, it’s just me talking about it personally.


0:45:27.6 Mike Vacanti: No, it always has been a religious podcast.




0:45:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Look, if you can’t listen to someone who you might have a disagreement with…


0:45:34.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:45:35.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s okay. You know? You’re not pushing anything on anyone. You’re just expressing what you do. And…


0:45:40.0 Jordan Syatt: I think, for the thing where you said you were like you try not to focus on the things you can’t control it, it’s one of those things where that plays a big part with me and like, whether it’s thinking about God, having conversations with God and understanding that like, all right, this is out of, this is like completely out of my control, but understanding there’s something greater going on and like something greater at play, being able to view it in a more positive light from that perspective and just moving on has been much more helpful for me.


0:46:17.1 Mike Vacanti: Are those conversations internal in your head or out loud?


0:46:21.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes and yes. Like a little bit of both. Like, sometimes I’ll have them in my head. Sometimes I’ll like, if I’m driving oftentimes, I’ll like have it out loud. Where it’s just like, I’ll do that. But yeah, a little bit of both.


0:46:35.7 Mike Vacanti: Cool. Yeah.


0:46:36.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s been something, ’cause my buddy Sean, you know Sean. And Sean’s like a devout Christian, and we were talking about it a fair, we talk about it a lot, actually. But I think a lot of what my upbringing in religion has been around, like you say, certain prayers, but one thing that’s been really nice is like, not just having certain prayers for certain situations, but also just like throughout the day, actually taking time to have a conversation with God. Like speak with God. What are your thoughts? Like, what are you going through? Like, what do you want? What do you need? What are you asking for? Like, why are you asking for it? As opposed to… And the prayers are great as well, like for like before you eat and like being grateful for what you’re having and the food that, the life that was taken in order for you to eat this, all that I think has been wonderful too. But also just the being able to vocally and verbally express yourself in the moment for maybe there you don’t, there isn’t a prayer for, and it’s just like a legitimate conversation, which has been…


0:47:40.8 Mike Vacanti: A casual conversation, which is one of the bases for building a relationship with God.


0:47:48.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.


0:47:49.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome. And that couldn’t make more sense in terms of, I don’t wanna call it a stress management tool because it comes off as like disrespectful to the creator of the universe, but like, it’s almost at the basis of how I, or how many people manage everything.


0:48:12.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah.


0:48:13.2 Mike Vacanti: That was cool. Wasn’t expecting that.


0:48:15.2 Jordan Syatt: There we go, man.


0:48:17.3 Mike Vacanti: And then I had other ideas of stress management things to add, and I don’t even want to after that. Feels like, oh, also I’ve been taking more steps and looking at less screens and working out more.


0:48:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Magnesium.




0:48:34.3 Mike Vacanti: My supplements stack. Do you get negative feedback for talking about God on the internet?


0:48:40.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, I’ve seen people get negative feedback for it. I’ve, don’t think I’ve personally, I have very minimally like, hey, like keep that separate. But it’s not even about me. I’ve seen it on other people’s. And I know that I, some people get very defensive as soon as they hear it and they almost disregard anything that’s said afterwards. And it’s, I think it’s just because of their relationship with God or their relationship with religion or what they perceive it to be. I think a lot of people hear someone start talking about God and they immediately take it as someone being preachy or someone like thinking I’m holier than thou. Which is funny for me because the deeper I try and grow my relationship with God, like the less and less and less holier than thou, I feel.


0:49:33.5 Jordan Syatt: Like the, it’s like I really see how I actually have so much more empathy for people in so many different situations. And it’s just something that has helped me deal with so many of the things that I struggle with. So it’s trying to break down the idea of, I’m not saying like I’m better or I’m at all, or I’m perfect at all. It’s literally me being like, I have a lot of issues that I try and work through and that trying to develop that relationship, I feel like it helps me a lot. So like it’s, that’s literally where I come from, which is why I try and lead with that from the beginning to break down that barrier. ‘Cause I feel like sometimes people have such a bad relationship with religion and God that as soon as that’s mentioned, immediate anger, immediate resistance, and so it’s like, if I could just play defense a little bit, it might open them up to it a little bit more just to like, hear it out rather than just like, turn it off.


0:50:29.7 Mike Vacanti: That makes sense. You know, who was the king of that? Was peak prime 2016, 2017, Jordan Peterson. Like before he was political at all, when he was doing his Bible lecture series and had hundreds of thousand, like unbelievable views on these videos that were three-hour lectures on the book of Genesis. And you had devout atheist gobbling up every minute of these… Like it was a… It almost like makes me sad, ’cause now he’s done so many other things and is known for so many other things. But like that era in 2017, specifically when he was doing that lecture series, he touched like a high point in culture. Like he was right on the, I don’t even know the right word. He, he was riding the very edge of the biggest wave at a pretty insane time. Pretty remarkable in hindsight. Just, because what you just described, like to have that many people, non-religious agnostic, like people of other faiths, even Christians, like coming together and listening to every word about the Old Testament, about these stories that coming off the, this wave of new atheism and like Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris and all these guys who in like the years prior, had so much popularity, it was beyond remarkable.


0:52:18.8 Jordan Syatt: It almost seemed like that’s what people were really craving, needing to have, like that level of explosion over these outrageously long lectures. And at a time when like, atheism and everything, I think was at its peak. People were like, I need this. Like, I’m hoping for this, I’m looking for this, but I don’t know what to do or where to begin. He was there to really offer people like, all right, well, let’s have these conversations. And he did a such a good job of that.


0:52:54.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:52:55.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Here’s an interesting one. I don’t know if you’re gonna wanna talk about this, but we’ll throw it out there and we’ll be finishing up. I read this one last night and I, it took me a minute to understand it, so I’ll say it and then I’ll explain it if you need it. So my question box said, how can I help? And this woman, she says, “Your spouse’s best friend hates their wife and they act nasty after hanging out with them.” So this woman, her husband, apparently her husband’s best friend hates his wife. And when her husband hangs out with that best friend, he might be coming home and acting nasty to her. And that’s all she said. You wanna skip this one?


0:53:34.6 Mike Vacanti: We can… No, I’ll be a fly on the wall for this one. This feels like one of those, like when your parent is like, every time you hang out with Matthew, you come back and you like have a bad attitude. Like you’re not hanging out with him anymore.


0:53:47.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s true, Yeah.


0:53:50.0 Mike Vacanti: Which I fully believe by the way. Right? We are the average of who we spend the most time with. And like the dynamic here is interesting. I have no idea what this woman should do.


0:54:05.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So much of it depends on the husband.


0:54:09.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, it’s like you would think… I don’t know. I guess my mind goes to being open and trying to have a conversation around his friend’s relationship to try to understand what’s going on. Why does his friend hate his wife? Why does his friend act this way? What’s going on with them?


0:54:33.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean…


0:54:34.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m way, I’m way out of my depths on this one. Go ahead.


0:54:38.5 Jordan Syatt: I think we both are, but like, I thought it was interesting. I mean, I think any logical person would say, all right, let’s try and have a logical conversation, explain how we feel and start with that, which I think makes sense. But that’s also assuming that this person is gonna have a logical conversation back. So I think the…


0:54:54.7 Mike Vacanti: Meaning the husband?


0:54:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Exactly. So like…


0:54:57.6 Mike Vacanti: You don’t think he could tell the wife what’s going on with those other two based on what he’s been told?


0:55:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh no. Of course, he can. But like, I don’t know anything about this, the woman who’s asking, I don’t know anything about the husband that she’s talking about. I don’t know anything… There are so many variables here that it’s really impossible to know what’s going on. ‘Cause I mean, it could be that the husband’s coming back and he’s acting nasty, that’s one aspect. It could also be that this wife, the woman who’s asking the question doesn’t like the friend at all and then has a negative perception when the husband comes home. And maybe he’s not acting nasty, but she just takes it as being nasty because she doesn’t like that he’s hanging out with him. Like he, the husband could really be acting nasty or he might not be. And so there’s so many as assumptions that have to be made.


0:55:42.7 Jordan Syatt: And I’m just gonna assume that what she’s saying is accurate. I’m gonna assume that her husband is actually acting like a brat and being rude when he comes home after hanging out with this guy who doesn’t like his wife. I’m just gonna assume that’s accurate. So with that in mind, the logical recommendation is have a sit down conversation. Don’t do it when the TV is on. Don’t do it like, don’t like jump down his throat when he just walks in the door, but like, have a real sit down conversation and be like, Hey, I’d really like to speak with you about something that is really important to me. And using like, I-feel as opposed to you-are language, but like, you know, I feel like I’m being attacked, or I feel like I’m being treated inappropriately at these points in time can we talk about that?


0:56:36.3 Jordan Syatt: And then from there being like, listen, I’ve noticed that when you come back from hanging out with so and so, it seems like I’m being treated in X way. And again, so much depends on his reaction and all of that, but like, hopefully, a logical and kind husband would be like, I’m so sorry, I didn’t mean that to happen. I’m gonna keep a close eye on it. If I am doing that, please tell me. I have a very… I know, ’cause based on the marriage I saw growing up, that if my mom were to say something like that to my dad, it would not have been met with a logical response. Right? So thinking to what I saw, it would’ve been met with; that’s horseshit, that’s not true, I don’t know what you’re talking about. So that’s why I’m being very like, it really does depend on the response and the individual. So like, it’s, if, God forbid my wife ever said that to me, like my hope and the conversation would be, that is absolutely not how I meant to make you feel. I’m so sorry that’s been happening. I’m gonna do my best to work on that. But then on the other hand, I’m watching Love is Blind right now. I know you’re watching it as well, and I see some of the other stuff. It’s… What episode are you on by the way?


0:57:58.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know, six.


0:58:00.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Chelsea’s fucking crazy, right? So like Chelsea is the one who said she looks like Megan Fox.


0:58:10.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. She’s pretty…


0:58:11.2 Jordan Syatt: Right?


0:58:11.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. She’s pretty… She’s pretty different.


0:58:12.7 Jordan Syatt: So something happened where like, I don’t wanna spoil it for you, but I also feel like it would be super helpful in this exact moment.


0:58:20.8 Mike Vacanti: You can spoil.


0:58:22.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s very small. It’s not a big deal. Basically, they get in a fight because… What’s her fiance’s name? What’s his… Jimmy. Jimmy went out to his friend’s birthday party.


0:58:40.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I definitely haven’t seen this.


0:58:41.6 Jordan Syatt: Jimmy went out to his friend’s birthday party and Chelsea got mad at him because he went out. And she was like, you told me in the pods that you’re not a person that goes out. And he was like, I went to my friend’s birthday party, like it was just a birthday, I just wanna be at my friend’s birthday party. And she was like, yeah, but I don’t wanna be with someone who goes out. And he’s like, it was wild. Like it was fucking crazy. So basically like, I don’t know what’s going on on the wife’s side here. Like, is she putting unrealistic expectations? Like, I don’t know. So it really does depend on so much, but assuming that the wife is being logical and objective here and what she’s saying is accurate, you have to have a sit down conversation and just be like, this is what I feel like is happening. Can we work on this? And hopefully you’re met with a logical and understanding response that can improve the outcome.


0:59:32.8 Mike Vacanti: I hope so too.




0:59:38.8 Mike Vacanti: My only takeaway there is…


0:59:41.4 Jordan Syatt: Chelsea is nuts.


0:59:42.3 Mike Vacanti: No, no. Male friendship in adulthood is drastically underrated in this day and age, and I think way more of the like suburban dad types should be spending more time with male friends. Like making each other better. I’m not talking about going out and like getting boozed up and hitting on girls and like…


1:00:11.3 Jordan Syatt: Going to a strip club and stuff. Yeah.


1:00:12.5 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, no. Zero percent. But like building each other up and making each other better and holding each other accountable to be a good man, to the point where… I don’t think about this stuff enough, so I just default to personal experience, but after hanging out with a guy friend or guy friends, I come back a better version of myself. Not a worse version of myself. Not someone who’s like gonna be demeaning or like saying these types of things. And maybe that’s on him and the type of friends that he has, I don’t know. But she picked him to marry or let him pick her, however you wanna look at it. And so she must think reasonably highly of him.


1:00:58.1 Jordan Syatt: Hopefully.


1:01:00.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. I don’t have any help. If the person who asked this question is listening to the podcast, listen to what Jordan said. Not me. I’m sorry. And to everyone else, I just think that, especially for the dudes listening and like male friendship and male accountability to each other is unbelievably helpful for mental health, for the betterment of each individual, which leads to the betterment of society.


1:01:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I think like it’s, especially as you get older, I think men hanging out, good men hanging out with good men and good women hanging out with good women is like super important. I think it’s really important. So I think it makes everyone better. And if you’re hanging out with people who are not good, cut them out.


1:01:51.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, yeah, it’s so hard, right? You can… Depends on your definition of good.


1:01:57.2 Jordan Syatt: What do you mean?


1:01:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Like, if they’re really doing bad stuff, yes. But if you have a buddy who you’ve been friends with for 25 years who’s like starting to head down the wrong path, I don’t know that cut him out is the play versus get him back on the straight narrow. Hey, oh, you’ve been doing this on this day. No, no, no, no more. We’re hitting the gym at this time, on this day, every single week. Like you and me. Let’s go. It’s…


1:02:22.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct. I think, and what you just hit on is actually really important aspect of it, which is like, if they’re doing stupid shit, you’re not going to be with them while they do stupid shit.


1:02:32.5 Mike Vacanti: Correct.


1:02:32.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s like you’re gonna bring them in to doing good stuff. Like, yes, be with me while we do something good. I’m not gonna be with you while we do something bad. And if you don’t want to be with me while we do something good, that’s your choice. But I’m not gonna go with you to do something bad just to hang out with you just because we’ve been friends for 25 years.


1:02:52.9 Mike Vacanti: Correct.


1:02:53.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s like, you’re welcome to be with me while we do something positive, but I’m not going to be with you while we do something negative.


1:03:00.5 Mike Vacanti: Yes. And if he doesn’t wanna go with you when you do something positive, then you just hammer him with texts, with clips to the movie Braveheart that are like, Hey, you remember who you’re supposed to be. All right. Saturday 8:00 AM.


1:03:14.5 Jordan Syatt: Freeeeeedom. Yeah. Love that.


1:03:19.8 Mike Vacanti: Good pod.


1:03:20.4 Jordan Syatt: Good pod, dude.


1:03:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Good episode. Thank you very much for listening. No right hooks here. No right hooks. We’re just here every single week. We appreciate you listening and have a great week. Let’s get it.


1:03:34.7 Jordan Syatt: See ya.

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