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In this episode, we discuss Mike’s 2 greatest fears, unconventional back exercises, being a short guy, antisemitism, and more.


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-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:12.1 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.8 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:16.2 Mike Vacanti: How you doing?


0:00:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m pretty good. Pretty good. How are you doing?


0:00:17.6 Mike Vacanti: I’m doing well, my man. Last episode, we ranked fear and anger on a scale of 1 to 100.


0:00:23.9 Jordan Syatt: I don’t even remember that.


0:00:25.9 Mike Vacanti: It was a few weeks ago. We filmed a few in advance ’cause I went to Florida.


0:00:29.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh. That’s why we had a really busy couple of weeks. I was like, damn, we’re just cranking them out right now. [laughter]


0:00:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Now we’re back. Now we’re back in our cadence.


0:00:43.4 Jordan Syatt: We ranked fear… Oh. Where we are on a scale of fear and anger?


0:00:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You were 12 on fear, if I remember right… No. No. You were 12 on anger and 88 on fear.


0:00:54.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Yeah. That’s about right.


0:00:56.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Cool.


0:00:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Where are you?


0:00:58.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, I was trying because I ranked myself so low on fear, I was subconsciously trying to…


0:01:03.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah.


0:01:03.9 Mike Vacanti: Think of things that I’m afraid of, to bring to the pod for conversation and I thought of two.


0:01:11.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. Nice. Okay. Let’s hear it.


0:01:15.1 Mike Vacanti: I came to the conclusion that I don’t like heights.


0:01:16.1 Jordan Syatt: You’re fearful of heights?


0:01:17.4 Mike Vacanti: I suppose. We had a balcony in Miami up on 15th floor in our hotel room and… Like, a really small balcony. I didn’t like it.


0:01:27.7 Jordan Syatt: Like, were you fearful of falling off?


0:01:30.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I think so. Not falling, ’cause obviously, I’m not going to, but I don’t know. Definitely wouldn’t wanna fall.


0:01:37.9 Jordan Syatt: Did your knees get like wobbly when you were out there?


0:01:38.9 Mike Vacanti: No, Jordan. Knees get wobbly?


0:01:40.3 Jordan Syatt: Did you not wanna look over?


0:01:43.8 Mike Vacanti: When I looked over, there was definitely, like, oh, this is uncomfortable.


0:01:45.0 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. Okay. Would you skydive?


0:01:49.6 Mike Vacanti: Would I skydive? I would’ve skydove at a younger age. I’m completely anti-thrill seeking, if there’s any risk of death at this point in my life because there’s zero…


0:02:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Really? Okay.


0:02:05.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. There’s zero upside except for the adrenaline and dopamine. But there’s massive downside. Even if it’s 1 in 100,000, one in a million, it’s still, the downside case is so bad, you die. Parachute doesn’t open, you die. Jump out without a parachute on, you die.


0:02:19.2 Jordan Syatt: Even just like for the bucket list, just to check it off, just to say you’ve done it?


0:02:25.3 Mike Vacanti: One, I’d so much rather do almost everything else in the world; Two, it’s not on my bucket list. I just don’t view… You ready for this? You ready for this?


0:02:36.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:02:37.3 Mike Vacanti: I would put doing the splits on my bucket list before I would put skydiving on my bucket list.


0:02:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Wow! And we both know, you’re not gonna do the splits.


0:02:48.2 Mike Vacanti: And that’s saying something.




0:02:51.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay. What… All right, so you’re scared of heights, so that’s… That helps us not at all. What’s the other thing you’re scared of?




0:03:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Why doesn’t that help us?


0:03:01.3 Jordan Syatt: It doesn’t provide any useful information…


0:03:06.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, about me?


0:03:07.6 Jordan Syatt: Unless we… Yeah. Unless we put your house on a mountaintop. But… Yeah.


0:03:12.0 Mike Vacanti: That’d be kind of cool, actually. And the other one is more… Although I’m not really feeling it right now, but there’s definitely… I brought this up to you. There’s an element of paranoia around an AI takeover that I think…


0:03:32.6 Jordan Syatt: These are your two fears, heights and an AI takeover?


0:03:35.2 Mike Vacanti: I think so. I think those are my two fears.


0:03:36.9 Jordan Syatt: [chuckle] You seriously brought those into the pod? All right, this is gonna be good.


0:03:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Well, no, not even that they’re good, but just that they’re true. Right? I don’t know that they’re entertaining or valid or whatever, but I brought zero fears and I felt like I wasn’t holding up my end of the bargain here on the pod.


0:03:51.8 Jordan Syatt: What about like cancer? I feel like… Are you not scared of something like cancer?


0:03:56.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’ll…


0:03:58.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s a real fear.


0:04:00.5 Mike Vacanti: I’ll catch a YouTube algo, where they’re feeding me a whole bunch of scary cancer stuff now and again, once every 6 to 12 months, but then I just stopped clicking on it, just to suppress it.


0:04:08.6 Jordan Syatt: And then, so your fear just goes away, you’re just no longer scared of the cance?


0:04:13.7 Mike Vacanti: You know what it is? I really try hard and maybe I’m naturally good at only focusing on things that are within my control. So, if I, let’s say I was afraid of something, like, a terminal illness like that, I would refocus it on what actions and behaviors can I take in my day-to-day life to minimize my risk of this thing happening? And then if it happens, it happens. Being afraid of it happening isn’t gonna change anything, except potentially increase the risk that it happens with some issues due to the increase in chronic stress from the fear.


0:04:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay. So, AI takeover.


0:04:55.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know anything about it and I don’t have a… Maybe that’s why I have some fear. Just once we hit AGI and…


0:05:06.0 Jordan Syatt: What’s AGI?


0:05:08.0 Mike Vacanti: It depends who you ask. There’s multiple definitions. Some people say it’s… It stands for Artificial General Intelligence, when… Some people say it’s when AI is smarter than the smartest human. Some people say it’s when AI can build on itself, so, basically, become like self-sufficient. Yeah.


0:05:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Okay.


0:05:31.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m much more afraid of a… Like having robot overlords in 30 years than I am of, I don’t know, like a communist or a Nazi regime and… You get what I’m saying?


0:05:44.9 Jordan Syatt: You’re more afraid of robot overlords than like…


0:05:49.2 Mike Vacanti: Human overlords.


0:05:49.8 Jordan Syatt: ANTIFA or Nazi overlords.


0:05:52.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I wouldn’t even say ANTIFA ’cause that just… I just think of like, 20-year-old, like angst, 2017, Portland, Seattle. Like nothing better to do, but actual, actual human overlords.


0:06:13.0 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.


0:06:14.4 Mike Vacanti: Because I’m confident in our ability against human overlords more so than I am against robot overlords.


0:06:21.9 Jordan Syatt: What? The checks and balances that we have against humans?


0:06:26.0 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:06:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Versus the…


0:06:26.9 Mike Vacanti: No. Like a fight.


0:06:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, like an actual fight.


0:06:30.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Have you seen some of these robot videos? And if they’re advancing at an exponential rate, I don’t wanna fight a robot.


0:06:37.8 Jordan Syatt: What robot videos? I don’t think I’ve seen these.


0:06:39.6 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t seen any recently. If you’re deep on… If you’re scrolling on Twitter, they were from Boston Robotics three, four years ago. There’s robots running and jumping and doing things, which aren’t that impressive right now. But if you compare…


0:06:54.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but it’s gonna…


0:06:55.9 Mike Vacanti: 10 years… You can see the trendline.


0:06:56.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That they can just make themselves better. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.


0:07:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And then if you… And then if there’s AGI and robots can build more robots and… Yeah.


0:07:05.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And if they can analyze how an elite athlete jumps and runs and how an elite mixed martial arts fighter fights, and how an elite commando unit shoots, and like, if they can analyze that immediately and then upgrade it to their programming, then they can do all of that and they can build more of them like that.


0:07:24.5 Mike Vacanti: Upgrade it to their programming or understand the pattern of what that elite athlete is doing and take it even further to a place where humans haven’t even gone before, to be stronger, to be faster, to be better.


0:07:34.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s what you’re scared of.


0:07:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Look, I was just trying to bring two fears. I was trying to reciprocate. I was trying to be a participant in our own podcast.


0:07:42.5 Jordan Syatt: I like it.


0:07:43.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s what we got.


0:07:44.0 Jordan Syatt: So, those are your only two fears.


0:07:45.4 Mike Vacanti: Those are the two that came to mind for me.


0:07:48.0 Jordan Syatt: And you’re pretty mild on the AI, AGI takeover for right now. You’re lukewarm on it.


0:07:52.1 Mike Vacanti: I just think it’s a ways away.


0:07:52.9 Jordan Syatt: Like more than 30 years?


0:07:57.7 Mike Vacanti: No. But 30 years is a long time.




0:08:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Cool. We appreciate the fears.


0:08:07.9 Mike Vacanti: We’ll keep our finger on the pulse there.


0:08:10.4 Jordan Syatt: We need to find something you’re really scared of, like, imminently.


0:08:15.4 Mike Vacanti: I’ll keep searching. I’ll keep searching. Dude, you got a dog, have we talked about this on the podcast?


0:08:19.7 Jordan Syatt: No. I just got him like a week ago and we were taking some time off while you were away. Yeah. He’s a real nut. He’s a real nuthouse.


0:08:32.6 Mike Vacanti: Are you sharing his name or no?


0:08:34.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s funny, a lot of people are like, are you gonna share his real name? I’m like, I’m not worried about his safety. A lot of people are like, wait, is this like an alias? I’m like, no, this is his real fucking name. I’m not worried about you finding him. [laughter]


0:08:48.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.


0:08:49.6 Jordan Syatt: A lot of people ask that. They’re like, wait, is that his real name though? And like…


0:08:52.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m trying to be respectful. I thought about it on the mentorship Q&A as well. I feel like it came up or maybe I was thinking of something and didn’t wanna, you know. I’m not trying to dox Curtis.


0:09:01.5 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s funny, I was surprised how many people asked. Yeah. I mean, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. But, yeah, a lot of people were asking, is that his real name? Are you gonna share his real name? I was like, this is his real name. Like, I’m not worried about you finding him. [laughter]


0:09:17.0 Mike Vacanti: Makes sense. That makes sense.


0:09:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s the name. Curtis is the name of the middle school that my wife and I met at. So, we met at Curtis Middle School. And so, that’s why we decided on Curtis.


0:09:30.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s a good name. A little Golden Retriever.


0:09:33.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I thought it was a good name. A couple of our friends were like, that’s a weird name. I was like, what do you mean it’s a weird name? They’re like, it’s like a human name. Like, well, yeah, I’m not gonna name him like Spot or, like, you know. [laughter] I don’t know. I like human names for dogs. I like Tucker. Tucker’s a good dog name. I like Jack. I like human names for dogs. I’m not gonna name them, like, I don’t know. Phoenix or like, what names do they give a dog? You know what I mean? What would you name a dog?


0:10:06.7 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t got that far yet, but I think it’s interesting for anyone to be critical of what their friend named their pet. That seems like a weird line in the sand.


0:10:15.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s like, “you guys suck!”




0:10:17.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You need to read How to Win Friends and Influence People, because you ain’t doing it right.


0:10:21.4 Jordan Syatt: You’re not our friends anymore. You’re out.




0:10:25.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I think I lean towards human names. I’d have to think about that.


0:10:28.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:10:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Well, good. You’ll have to keep us updated on Curtis.


0:10:32.6 Jordan Syatt: You’re gonna get a dog? You’re looking at dogs now?


0:10:35.4 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t started looking yet. I haven’t started looking yet.


0:10:38.3 Jordan Syatt: If you had to pick a breed today, and I know you haven’t done research, but if you had to just pick one based off of the no knowledge that you have, what breed would you pick?


0:10:45.2 Mike Vacanti: I would be going solely off of, like, looks and coolness. And not any other…


0:10:50.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, do that.


0:10:53.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t even know…


0:10:53.4 Jordan Syatt: What dog is like that looks the coolest.


0:10:55.2 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I’m…


0:10:55.3 Jordan Syatt: And…


0:10:56.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m over my head here. I don’t know… This is like me talking about AI overlords. Like, I don’t know anything about dogs.


0:11:01.5 Jordan Syatt: We already spoke about that, so. [laughter] What’s like the coolest looking dog in your mind?


0:11:09.2 Mike Vacanti: I like different kinds of huskies. I think Golden Retrievers are great. My sister has a Golden Retriever. I like different kind of spaniels. Like I don’t know what in the Spaniel family. I like a Lassie dog, a Lassie kind of dog.


0:11:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love Lassie dogs. What about like a Doberman?


0:11:38.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Is that like My Dog Skip? Hang on, let me look at a Doberman…


0:11:41.7 Jordan Syatt: Doberman’s a big boy. I like big dogs. I like big dogs.


0:11:48.3 Mike Vacanti: Doberman.


0:11:48.4 Jordan Syatt: Or like a German Shepherd.


0:11:51.3 Mike Vacanti: When I was eight, my really good friend at the time, Tony Fish, got mauled by a German Shepherd right before my eyes.


0:11:56.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh really?


0:11:58.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:12:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Like bad?


0:12:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:12:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Like on his face?


0:12:02.6 Mike Vacanti: No, like one of his legs just got all torn up. Had to get tons of stitches. Yeah.


0:12:06.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. They’re like Biden’s German Shepherd has attacked like his Secret Service, like 12 times or something.


0:12:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Really?


0:12:15.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. [laughter]


0:12:17.4 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t Know that.


0:12:18.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s been on the news. Yeah, it’s all over the news.


0:12:20.2 Mike Vacanti: That would be…


0:12:20.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, on the news.


0:12:21.3 Mike Vacanti: German Shepherds are like…


0:12:21.4 Jordan Syatt: Security dogs.


0:12:23.2 Mike Vacanti: That seems super relevant. I’m glad that’s on the news.


0:12:24.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. [laughter]


0:12:27.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s really good that they’re covering that.


0:12:31.2 Jordan Syatt: So, you like medium sized dogs?


0:12:33.3 Mike Vacanti: I gotta do more research. I don’t have strong opinions on dogs right now. I appreciate your excitement though.


0:12:39.7 Jordan Syatt: Dog or cat?


0:12:42.1 Mike Vacanti: Dog.


0:12:42.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. How to become a personal trainer.


0:12:45.1 Mike Vacanti: How to become a personal trainer. No. I know a lot of people who have cats and they like them. I think I’m really rattled by this one story. You hear the story about the woman who had like 40 cats?


0:12:57.4 Jordan Syatt: And they ate her?


0:12:58.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. She passed away and her cats ate her.


0:13:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dude, gross.


0:13:02.1 Mike Vacanti: Makes me sus, but I know a lot of great cat owners, so I don’t know.


0:13:06.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Susan has cats.


0:13:09.7 Mike Vacanti: Does she?


0:13:11.6 Jordan Syatt: Susan has great cats. Yeah. Susan has two cats.


0:13:13.3 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:13:13.6 Jordan Syatt: She’s had cats her whole life. She had one cat that lived until like 21 or 22 years old.


0:13:17.7 Mike Vacanti: Cats live that long?


0:13:19.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:13:19.6 Mike Vacanti: Wow.


0:13:21.3 Jordan Syatt: Susan’s cats do. She’s a good cat owner. Mitch has like a bunch of cats, my videographer.


0:13:26.9 Mike Vacanti: Really? Cool.


0:13:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, he’s got… He like fosters cats.


0:13:29.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, that’s awesome.


0:13:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And he has his own, too, but yeah.


0:13:34.3 Mike Vacanti: Personal trainer.


0:13:34.5 Jordan Syatt: Do you know what kind of cats I would get, if I was gonna get a cat? I don’t know that… It’s like, you know those like hairless cats?


0:13:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:13:41.3 Jordan Syatt: You know the one that like Dr. Evil had?


0:13:44.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s the first place my mind went. Yep.


0:13:47.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s for me, I don’t know why…


0:13:50.0 Mike Vacanti: No, you won’t.


0:13:50.0 Jordan Syatt: But like, if I was gonna get a cat…


0:13:51.0 Mike Vacanti: No, you won’t.


0:13:51.0 Jordan Syatt: I would, I would. I would. That would be my cat.


0:13:55.3 Mike Vacanti: For the comedic element?


0:13:56.8 Jordan Syatt: No, ’cause I just enjoy those cats. I really like, it’s… I like those cats. That’s my favorite type of cat.


0:14:04.6 Mike Vacanti: Hand on a Bible, have you ever met one of those cats?


0:14:07.4 Jordan Syatt: Hand on a Jewish Bible. Yeah. [laughter]


0:14:12.9 Mike Vacanti: You have, in person?


0:14:14.4 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Yeah, they feel really good. It’s like, I like the feel of it.


0:14:19.3 Mike Vacanti: Nice. [laughter] All right. Steer us into some fitness, Jordan. Steer us into some fitness. Understand the audience expectations and needs here.


0:14:37.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh geez. That…


0:14:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Come on. You’re an ESTP.


0:14:37.7 Jordan Syatt: I’m just gonna…


0:14:38.3 Mike Vacanti: And there’s some good fitness that we’re into.


0:14:39.4 Jordan Syatt: I’m just gonna, I’m gonna steer us away from fitness. Steer, dude, you just made me think about the Baltimore bridge today. You see that?


0:14:47.6 Mike Vacanti: I saw some headline about a bridge, but no, I didn’t.


0:14:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Wow. You’re so off of social media, I’m jealous. Dude, a fucking like freight boat, a huge boat, like a storage boat, like a boat with a lot of shit on it, hit a support beam on a Baltimore bridge that’s a mile and a half long, and the bridge collapsed this morning.


0:15:13.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh my gosh!


0:15:13.9 Jordan Syatt: The entire bridge collapsed this morning. Yeah. And there were like…


0:15:18.0 Mike Vacanti: There were people on it?


0:15:19.6 Jordan Syatt: At least seven people that were on the bridge. Yeah. I mean, I would… “Fortunately,” it happened at 1:52 in the morning or something, so there were not that many people on it, but there were construction workers and some people driving as well. Yeah. Which is just like…


0:15:37.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s terrible.


0:15:40.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That steer really… Yeah.


0:15:40.3 Mike Vacanti: Gosh. Really sad.


0:15:48.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. It’s just when you said “steer,” that’s been on my feet all day about, like this boat steered into the support beam.


0:15:54.1 Mike Vacanti: Man.


0:15:54.2 Jordan Syatt: Where do you wanna go with this?




0:15:55.9 Mike Vacanti: I was leading this to fitness and you just gave me some real depressing news live on the air that I wasn’t aware of.


0:16:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay. You want me to go to Q&A?


0:16:07.3 Mike Vacanti: No. No. I want you to give me some intuitive fitness.


0:16:10.0 Jordan Syatt: Intuitive fitness. Geez.


0:16:12.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. You can give me whatever’s on your mind, whatever you feel like talking about, whatever interests you, new trends…


0:16:21.6 Jordan Syatt: Let me see… What do we got going on in the fitness world as of late? I feel like so much of my feed is just people; not even just in the fitness industry, but very much in the fitness industry as well, is like people using other people’s content to hate on other people’s content. That’s just like… I feel like it’s reached peak, peak volume. It’s like, that’s what everyone is doing right now. They’re just, like, oh, let me just look at what others, someone else is doing.


0:16:51.3 Mike Vacanti: Let me clarify. People are using other people’s content to hate on it or to hate on other…


0:16:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So, like, let’s say you decided to come back and make a piece of content for the first time in since 1987. All right, so you make piece of content.


0:17:07.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. The year I was born.


0:17:08.7 Jordan Syatt: And then, I then take your piece of content and I shit on it. I just make fun of it. I say, you’re stupid, whatever.


0:17:17.5 Mike Vacanti: You couldn’t… No, you couldn’t, ’cause it’d be so good, you just wouldn’t be able to.


0:17:19.1 Jordan Syatt: No, no, No. I understand. I wouldn’t ’cause your content would be amazing. But that’s what people are doing.


0:17:25.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think… Remember when Facebook didn’t let you publish the Hunter Biden laptop story before the election?


0:17:33.0 Jordan Syatt: Yes. [laughter]


0:17:33.4 Mike Vacanti: It would be like that. Like Instagram would be like, “sorry, Jordan. This piece of content is too good.”


0:17:37.9 Jordan Syatt: This is too good.


0:17:38.9 Mike Vacanti: You cannot.


0:17:41.8 Jordan Syatt: We’re taking this down and we’re removing your account because you can’t make fun of this guy because it is too good.


0:17:50.9 Mike Vacanti: No, but… Continue. I took us off track there. So you would then be like, this is such a dumb idea. This guy’s an idiot.


0:17:53.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Look at this idiot. He’s just doing this, like, this is wrong. And it’s, like, original content has gone so far. It’s like people can’t make original content anymore, so they just make fun of other people’s content. It’s just… That’s all they do. It’s just like, that is my feed constantly, which I think is one reason why I’m just getting like more and more and more and more and more fed up with it. I’m just like, number one, I’m like, can’t you just be fucking creative and do something yourself? And number two, it’s just like, ugh. Even if you have a positive spin on it, it’s inherently negative, inherently because you are tearing someone else down in order to educate. It’s like, just make your own shit. It’s annoying right now. It’s really annoying.


0:18:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And that’s… And that seems like, at the crux of it, it’s either someone who maybe lacks creativity, doesn’t know what to post, or maybe they’re only going for engagement and they know that that will perform well and so that’s what they’re uploading. Yeah. This morning when we talked, you said you’re becoming more disenchanted, I guess, with social media, in general.


0:19:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I’m just tired. I’m just tired of it. But I think with that type of content, there’s an… There’s a more immediate sense of, like it’s easier to get views and likes on it because people like drama and there’s automatic drama. It’s, like, all right, well here’s this person and they’re gonna… Like, they’re looking at what this person is saying. There’s gonna be drama related to it in some way, shape, or form. So, it’s an easy way to drum up drama.


0:19:36.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s drama because both accounts have a substantial following or it’s drama because the topics of conversation are interesting?


0:19:42.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s drama because there’s conflict between the original content and the person who’s making this new piece of content. So, any conflict is drama. And so, people watching are like, even if you’re not interested in it, you’re like, well, I wonder what they’re gonna say? And so, yeah, it’s just needless, useless drama.


0:20:01.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, that’s unfortunate.


0:20:03.5 Jordan Syatt: Yep. So, there’s that. So, I think there is a way to really stand out, which is not doing that.


0:20:08.7 Mike Vacanti: Which might lead to lower engagement in the short term, but way better results in the long term, better peace of mind, better staying power, actually providing information that is gonna lead to people wanting to sign up for online personal training, rather than people just consuming because they like the drama.


0:20:28.5 Jordan Syatt: You know what’s funny too, is a lot of my, like, especially I’d say in the last year, my lower performing, when I say lower performing, I mean, posts that don’t go viral, posts that don’t get a lot of likes, a lot of posts that have way lower engagement are actually posts that lead to way more sales for me. Posts that… It’s, you know, a good example of this actually recently is a lot of my posts more centered around mobility and flexibility. They’re not going crazy, they’re not like viral posts at all. But I have a lot of people both in the Inner Circle and joining the Inner Circle because they’re really excited for the mobility programs that I’m putting out. And so it’s, even though they’re not anywhere near my most popular posts by view standards or like standards or share standards, they’re getting people who are interested in this specific topic, who are interested in seeing the program, which I think is a great lesson in that, like when you’re… It’s when you’re chasing the follows and chasing the likes and chasing the views, it’s like chasing monopoly money, like we’ve said so much, so many times.


0:21:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Yep. Spot on.


0:21:41.6 Jordan Syatt: Did you work out when you were in Florida?


0:21:43.8 Mike Vacanti: Did I… Jordan’s mind went to, what can I ask that will get Mike excited? You’re… Yeah. I did had some great workouts done in Florida.


0:21:54.1 Jordan Syatt: What’d you do?


0:21:55.3 Mike Vacanti: Push/pull/leg. Just kept it rolling.


0:21:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Your training’s going well?


0:22:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Training’s going well. Yeah, the sun and the vitamin D is unbeatable.


0:22:04.3 Jordan Syatt: Are you on a mini cut right now?


0:22:06.1 Mike Vacanti: Not strict. Yeah. Over the last three weeks, I’m definitely net in a deficit, but nothing crazy right now.


0:22:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Not like a severe deficit?


0:22:21.5 Mike Vacanti: No. There were a couple days in there just to get things straightened out but…


0:22:23.3 Jordan Syatt: How’s your hunger?


0:22:25.8 Mike Vacanti: Fine. I mean, hunger… Yeah. Hunger’s very reasonable. When sleep’s dialed in, when you’re making good food choices, when you’re either around maintenance or in a slight deficit, hunger’s never an issue. But, no, workouts done in Florida were good. Played basketball with Gary and his crew.


0:22:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah.


0:22:45.5 Mike Vacanti: I mean, they played every day. I played two of the days for two hours each, like very physical, very competitive, beat up from that.


0:22:54.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. They’re… They take that really seriously. It’s not like leisurely basketball. They go really hard.


0:22:58.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And I’m not a basketball player.


0:23:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:23:04.7 Mike Vacanti: I know something we could talk about [laughter]


0:23:05.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay. What is it? [laughter]


0:23:09.8 Mike Vacanti: Your comment that got hidden this morning.


0:23:13.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. You wanna dive in on that? Okay.


0:23:16.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know.


0:23:17.9 Jordan Syatt: Let’s do it.


0:23:19.5 Mike Vacanti: Why not?


0:23:20.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Let’s do it. Why not? You wanna dive in? You wanna lead?


0:23:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Well, Jordan sent me a… Jordan sent me a link to an Instagram reel from… Was it The Hodgetwins that uploaded it?


0:23:32.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yep. Yep.


0:23:35.5 Mike Vacanti: And it was the Hodgetwins…


0:23:37.1 Jordan Syatt: And by the way, historically love the Hodgetwins. Historically.


0:23:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Going all the way back to their comedy days and they’re…


0:23:44.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s like 2010, like, yeah.


0:23:47.4 Mike Vacanti: OGs on YouTube, banging into each other doing their funny stuff. And even like a lot of good political takes over more recent years, when that has been more of their shtick rather than comedy and fitness, but they were having a conversation with an MMA guy and was like… First, the most absurd thing, I think, was the imagery in the videos that they used overlaying the conversation, which were… I don’t even know what the one guy was making fun of Jewish people by having like a fake nose on.


0:24:24.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. It was very weird. It was very weird.


0:24:28.5 Mike Vacanti: And some other weird imagery. But then, in their conversation, they’re talking about is Judaism a ethnicity or is it a religion? And I don’t remember a lot of it. And I’m sure you do, so I’ll let you speak on that. But I saw @syattfitness commented, and I was like, oh, I wonder what Jordan said here. And so, clicked the comments and couldn’t find your comment anywhere. And I was like, bro, did you comment on this because I don’t see your comment and you screenshot and showed me. So basically, they immediately hid your comment as soon as you posted it.


0:25:04.0 Jordan Syatt: So, the context here is that you said to me, it was either yesterday or the day before, you’re like, hey man, I’m noticing like a rise in antisemitism, sort of globally, on both sides, far left, far right. And…


0:25:18.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s from the right more than I have ever seen. Yeah.


0:25:25.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And so the context of that is, like, yeah, there’s a massive rise in antisemitism. And so then I see that post today and it comes up, and the thumbnail that they used was like classic Hitler era Jewish propaganda, the imagery of what a Jew looks like, very like 1939, 1941 era. You look at a Hitler propaganda poster of a Jewish person. It was like freaking wild to see that that was the thumbnail.


0:26:06.2 Mike Vacanti: He was wearing a costume made out of money, right?


0:26:07.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yep, yep. And he had a super long nose, and… It was like… And it was very… It was shocking to see. And which I’m sure they did it deliberately to get more views. And then, the immediate conversation is the Hodgetwins saying like, I thought that Judaism was just a religion and then the MMA fighter Jake Shields, who is vehemently anti-Israel, and I would imagine from the way he talks, antisemitic. He basically, he’s saying, like, yeah, no. It’s not just a religion, but you can’t just… It’s not like a religion where any… You can’t just become Jewish, which by the way is wrong. Anyone who…


0:26:51.0 Mike Vacanti: You can, yeah.


0:26:53.2 Jordan Syatt: Wants to, can convert to Judaism. My wife did it. The main difference with Judaism in terms of conversion relative to other religions is that it takes a long time. It’s not like you just go and say, I want to convert and say, I accept this God as my God. It’s like, it’s often years of studying, and then you actually have to present… You have to have a presentation in front of what’s called a beit din, which is like a group of rabbis who basically judge not only your knowledge, but your character before you are allowed to convert. So it’s like, it’s a long process, which I actually really like. So, Jake is basically, Jake Shields is just rattling off falsity after falsity after falsity, in terms of like what Jews are, what they’re allowed to do…


0:27:42.3 Mike Vacanti: Real…


0:27:45.1 Jordan Syatt: What right… Yeah.


0:27:45.2 Mike Vacanti: Sorry. Let me interject real quick that, to play devil’s advocate, that I understand the point of confusion around ethnicity versus religion if you can convert. I get that because I had the same questions in 2016 and we’ve had a lot of conversations around this.


0:28:12.6 Jordan Syatt: Yep.


0:28:14.4 Mike Vacanti: So, having a question is okay, but then… I’ll let you continue ’cause you’re gonna get there.


0:28:19.4 Jordan Syatt: No, no, what were you gonna say?


0:28:21.1 Mike Vacanti: But then there’s two, you’re asking the question to someone who you know doesn’t know the answer to the question, but then when someone who does know the answer, answers the question in your…


0:28:33.6 Jordan Syatt: They’re hiding my comment.


0:28:34.9 Mike Vacanti: In your comment, they hide the comment.


0:28:35.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Correct.


0:28:39.3 Mike Vacanti: So, it’s just, it’s a very disingenuous conversation that isn’t actually after finding out the true answer, it’s…


0:28:47.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:28:47.8 Mike Vacanti: There are other things going on there.


0:28:50.0 Jordan Syatt: That was the weirdest part, and the probably the most worrying part is like, basically in my comment, I just explained, here’s the truth about Jews becoming… People can convert to Judaism, and here’s also we are an ethnicity and a race. Here’s the explanation behind it. And then they hid the comment, so you couldn’t see it, which is like, that’s… And they immediately hid it; very quickly, just took it right off…


0:29:13.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It was within a few minutes. Yeah.


0:29:15.6 Jordan Syatt: Which is just crazy. And that for me was like, oh man, they just… It wasn’t even a counterpoint, it was just educating, well, no, here’s the truth of what’s actually going on.


0:29:25.1 Mike Vacanti: It was an explanation. Yeah. I mean you could hold it up if you wanted to…


0:29:28.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. No, no, it’s all right. Basically, I mean, people listening I’m sure, I doubt we have really antisemitics on here. I’m sure they understand it, but it’s like in terms of, it’s a religion. But, for example, someone, just like in any religion, someone could be Christian but not practicing. Right? Someone could be Muslim, but not a practicing Muslim. So, like you have that aspect of it where it’s like, you could be Jewish, but not… From a… You could not be practicing from a religious perspective, but also if you are Jewish, if you convert to Judaism, then you’re seen as you’re Jewish from when you were born. It’s not like, you’re not seen as a convert. You were seen as you were Jewish always.


0:30:07.8 Jordan Syatt: So, that’s one aspect. But then, in terms of the race aspect, it’s very easy to go back to, for example, if you Google searched The Nuremberg Race Laws that Hitler and the Nazis implemented in Nazi Germany, Jews were considered a separate race. And this didn’t just happen in Germany, this happened in Russia as well. This happened where regardless of whether you were practicing or not, regardless of whether you were… You could be born Jewish, but if you were an atheist, an atheist born Jewish, you were still seen as Jewish, you’re still going to Auschwitz, you’re still gonna a death camp, you’re still Jewish, as a race. You’re not allowed to marry people who are not Jewish. You’re not allowed to hold certain jobs.


0:30:48.0 Mike Vacanti: Can’t we even go further back than 1930s or 1940s though?


0:30:51.0 Jordan Syatt: 100%.


0:30:53.9 Mike Vacanti: Like what was… ‘Cause I actually don’t know… Wasn’t Judaism ethnic even around the time of Jesus? When they talk about Jews and Gentiles, or the difference between Jews and Gentiles wasn’t like, we believe different things. It was in their ethnicity.


0:31:10.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yep.


0:31:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Or am I wrong in that? ‘Cause I’m not a hundred percent sure.


0:31:14.5 Jordan Syatt: Well, so in that timeframe, we were… They were called Hebrews. That’s what they… They weren’t… I don’t think they were necessarily referred to as Jews as much as they were referred to as Hebrews in that timeframe…


0:31:23.5 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:31:24.1 Jordan Syatt: But yeah, no, like you’re a hundred percent correct. It’s like… It’s still, it’s always been tied to ethnicity as well.


0:31:31.6 Mike Vacanti: Which is why… ‘Cause I actually don’t know. I’d have to think about it, but I don’t… Like when you say you can be a Christian, not practicing, you can be a Muslim, not practicing. I don’t know if I agree in the way that you can be an atheist… If someone was like, I’m an atheist Muslim, then they’re not… Then they’re not a Muslim. Like that’s where the ethnicity portion comes in. Like you are…


0:31:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Right. That’s true.


0:32:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Ethnically Jewish, but I actively don’t believe in God. And there’s lots of atheist Jewish people in…


0:32:05.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:32:06.3 Mike Vacanti: In the public sphere.


0:32:09.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:32:10.4 Mike Vacanti: And… Which I actually think makes it more clear how it is both a religion and an ethnicity.


0:32:16.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That is a good clarification. That makes total sense.


0:32:22.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:32:23.4 Jordan Syatt: So, I was taken aback that they hid it, especially because they’re super pro free speech. They’re like… Or they say they’re super pro free speech. And it seems like they’re trying to seek the truth, but then as soon as…


0:32:38.8 Mike Vacanti: Usually. Yeah.


0:32:39.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s like in the interview, it’s three non-Jewish people talking about Judaism, and then a Jewish person comments and says, hey, here’s how it works. And then they hide it immediately. Fucking weird.


0:32:50.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t even care that it’s three non-Jewish people and one Jewish people. I care that it’s three people who are dramatically undereducated on the topic, and then one person who knows the answer. If one of those people… If all three of them weren’t Jewish, but one of them knew the right answer, and was like, no, no, no, it’s like this and this is how it works…


0:33:05.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:33:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Great. Great.


0:33:10.3 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yep. Yeah, exactly.


0:33:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s… One of my issues with what I’m seeing, the rise in Jewish hate, let’s call it, from the right, is that those same people were staunchly anti-identity politics over the last decade, when it comes from the other side. And so, these are the people who are like, no, we don’t wanna be broken out based on categories, we wanna be judged as individuals. You can be a White person who does good or does bad. You can… Black, any ethnicity, any religion. But now, instead of looking at the behavior of an individual and judging that as good or bad, they’re saying, oh, this Jewish person did this bad thing, therefore, Jews are bad…


0:34:09.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.


0:34:10.8 Mike Vacanti: Which is, it’s hypocritical. And it’s just like, it’s what you stood against for the last however many years, and now you’re doing the same thing.


0:34:19.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s a great point. Yeah. That’s a super good point. It’s, yeah, it’s wild, it’s definitely a scary time right now.


0:34:27.4 Mike Vacanti: Solzhenitsyn, we need him back. “The line between good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.”


0:34:30.3 Jordan Syatt: True.


0:34:32.1 Mike Vacanti: Period.


0:34:33.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:34:34.8 Mike Vacanti: Anyway, that was interesting to me.


0:34:36.0 Jordan Syatt: How to be a personal trainer.


0:34:36.4 Mike Vacanti: How to be… Look, I know you tuned in wondering how to be a personal trainer, 35 minutes in.




0:34:47.4 Jordan Syatt: Anything else that you’ve been interested about?


0:34:49.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, loads. But that’s not what this podcast is. I’ve actually been thinking about that. I think I need to just talk less about the things I’m interested in on this podcast because I…


0:34:56.6 Jordan Syatt: No, no. That’s false. False.


0:35:00.1 Mike Vacanti: I think I do.


0:35:00.4 Jordan Syatt: I guarantee people are like, no, no, no, don’t do that. I guarantee it.


0:35:05.3 Mike Vacanti: Maybe I think we need to bring back some episodes like the 2019, 2020 era where we plan things and do like the top 10 of this, and pyramids of this. I think that might make some good content.


0:35:14.4 Jordan Syatt: I think we could do that maybe once a month, one in four pods we do that…


0:35:22.6 Mike Vacanti: Good.


0:35:22.7 Jordan Syatt: But I think the banter is really what people stay for.


0:35:27.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay. You know the people.


0:35:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Whenever I get messages about the pod, it’s always about like people saying that they listen while they’re working out and they literally had to stop lifting in the middle of their set ’cause they were laughing…


0:35:37.3 Mike Vacanti: Good.


0:35:41.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s like, yeah. So, we can have some of those like pre-planned pods where we educate, but I think the banter is really what people stay for.


0:35:52.3 Mike Vacanti: Okay. I believe you. We can cut this out, but any gut health updates on your end?


0:35:55.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s feeling good.


0:35:57.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, great. Great. I was down in Florida. I went down the juice aisle getting myself some beet juice for my pre-workout concoction and I saw right in a row…


0:36:05.0 Jordan Syatt: So we’re not cutting this out?


0:36:07.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, you said you’re feeling good… I saw right in a row…


0:36:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s why we keep it in. [laughter]


0:36:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Beet juice, carrot juice, and I took a little picture and sent it over to you, the death stack.


0:36:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you did send it over to me. I was like, you didn’t send it. Yeah, you did. Yeah. Well, yeah, for weeks now, Mike has been like, “Hey, can we talk about this? Can we talk about this?” And I’ve been like, well, hold on. What… And still, I haven’t been to the GI yet, but I had a fucking, some type of bacteria in my gut that was destroying me for a month, in the most uncomfortable way. And…


0:36:44.6 Mike Vacanti: That stinks.




0:36:47.6 Mike Vacanti: What? Why is that funny?


0:37:01.9 Jordan Syatt: The way you just said that, and like, yeah, literally, it stunk, but like, yeah, it was not good.


0:37:07.0 Mike Vacanti: No pun intended.


0:37:07.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But like the look on your face… Yeah. It stinks. [laughter]


0:37:15.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s not fun. I was trying to empathize.


0:37:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dude, it was, it was not good. And we were trying to figure out where it came from. Even my doctor… I had to do the whole thing. I went and got blood work done. And I even had to do the whole thing where like I pooped in a fucking basket. And then gave my poop to the doctor and they had to analyze it. It was a back and forth, and I had to get on antibiotics for like three weeks to get it out. And we were trying to figure out what it came from. And I swear that I got it from beet juice.


0:37:49.5 Mike Vacanti: Hang on. Let me…


0:37:50.7 Jordan Syatt: And Mike thinks that it wasn’t from beet juice.


0:37:52.6 Mike Vacanti: You’re rewriting history right now, my brother. So let me… Let me step in. Let me take over the mic. So first of all, when you were explaining to me what was going on, do you remember what I told you to do?


0:38:06.5 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:38:08.3 Mike Vacanti: Think. I think you remember. This is before you had seen the second doc… Whatever doctor gave you the antibiotics, this was before you went to that doctor…


0:38:15.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:38:19.0 Mike Vacanti: I said, come on. Dig deep.


0:38:20.4 Jordan Syatt: What did you say?


0:38:20.9 Mike Vacanti: You remember.


0:38:24.2 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] I don’t remember.


0:38:25.2 Mike Vacanti: I said it’s very likely a bacterial infection and you need to run antibiotics.


0:38:31.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. You did say that. Yeah, you did.


0:38:32.2 Mike Vacanti: And then you went to the doctor and did that, which was great.


0:38:36.1 Jordan Syatt: Yep.




0:38:39.4 Mike Vacanti: Well, there was the… Beet juice and carrot juice is just…


0:38:48.6 Jordan Syatt: You say it.


0:38:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, there was… There was the conversation I have here from like a month ago, you said, it was the beet juice.


0:38:54.5 Jordan Syatt: Are you looking in your notes? Yeah. There’s notes. [laughter]


0:38:57.6 Mike Vacanti: PT pod! I take notes for the pod. Jordan: “It was the beet juice. It gave me the virus. I’m positive.” Mike: “Usually viruses would come from eating undercooked meats.” Jordan: “Nah, I don’t eat undercooked meats.” [laughter] Pause. Jordan: “Wait, fuck! Beef tartare had a raw egg in it.” But then you claim you had symptoms prior to that, which… Cool.


0:39:24.1 Jordan Syatt: My wife… Because I brought that up to my wife. I was like, oh, shit, I did have that. And she was like no that doesn’t count because you already were having symptoms when you had that. And I forgot because she literally said, as I ordered the beef tartare, she was like, your stomach isn’t feeling good. Are you sure you want to have that? And I was like, yeah, it’s fine.


0:39:44.4 Mike Vacanti: I honestly, I would imagine that a significant contributing factor to all of this… We get exposed to viruses consistently and we don’t always get super sick from them. And a lot of that has to do with our own immune system. You were in a very high stress period; launching the Inner Circle app which took a ton of time and effort and a lot going on. And there was worry around how the launch would be and how the app would be received. There were multiple moving pieces around that time where your stress levels were very high. I would imagine that that is what led to you ending up so symptomatic for such a long time.


0:40:28.5 Jordan Syatt: That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah.


0:40:32.6 Mike Vacanti: Anyway…


0:40:35.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Well, I really think it was the beet juice. And I’ve been hesitant to get beet juice since then, but I need to get the good kind. I need to get the Knudsen. Is it Knudsen or Knudsen?


0:40:44.4 Mike Vacanti: I don’t understand…


0:40:46.7 Jordan Syatt: I love carrot juice though.


0:40:47.6 Mike Vacanti: Look, maybe we’re both just kind of idiots out of our depth on this but I don’t think people get food-borne illness or bacteria from juice. That just doesn’t happen. Maybe I’m wrong.




0:41:10.8 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe. I have no idea.


0:41:14.7 Mike Vacanti: You were so hot on beet juice and carrot juice for four days in there, too. You were just chugging it.


0:41:21.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I know. That’s where I think I got it. I think I overdid it.


0:41:27.9 Mike Vacanti: But look, I don’t know.


0:41:29.8 Jordan Syatt: I do love that stuff. I’ll get back on it. I feel so good when I have that stuff. Beet juice, carrot juice, and ginger. It’s like, that’s really it.


0:41:40.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Do you think there’s a correlation between high levels of NEAT and ADHD?


0:41:47.7 Jordan Syatt: I would imagine, for sure. Yeah. I would absolutely imagine that if you have ADHD. And I also feel like, and this might be an uneducated perspective, but I feel like ADHD, in and of itself, is a spectrum. It’s not just like you have it or you don’t. I would imagine that there’s like higher and lower levels of it.


0:42:06.8 Mike Vacanti: For sure.


0:42:08.5 Jordan Syatt: The higher levels of it that you have, probably the more NEAT that you have. Even just from the perspective of like a… Never mind NEAT, but like I would imagine almost like more brain activity. Right? So we know that the brain requires glucose and it functions off of glucose and like that, you can literally, someone who thinks a lot or if like you spend a whole day studying, you’ll burn more calories just from the brain activity, I would imagine that someone with ADHD has a higher energy output just from what the fuck they’re thinking about, never mind… Including also the movement that they have.


0:42:42.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I think you’re right.


0:42:43.8 Jordan Syatt: You agree with that?


0:42:45.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I do. I also agree with the spectrum theory and just like whether or not you want to classify it as like an actual disorder, there’s definitely a collection of symptoms that some people have more than others. And I would argue, are increasing based on environment in the last 5 to 10 years; meaning, some people who might’ve been more okay as children are developing some of the same symptoms from technology and screen use, and lifestyle, primarily.


0:43:24.4 Jordan Syatt: I bet that, for sure. I also feel like so many of things that they’re diagnosing as ADD or ADHD are like normal things.


0:43:37.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.


0:43:39.3 Jordan Syatt: I see… Because I’m diagnosed with it and I see a lot of people being like, oh, I have it. I have it now. And I’m like, well what are your symptoms? Oh, I just really struggle to concentrate. And I’m like… Okay. [laughter] It’s also, like to your point, yeah. Especially if you’re addicted to your fucking phone and yeah, it’s not because you have ADHD as much as it is because you’re just addicted to your fucking phone. That it’s like, your phone is addictive especially when you get on things like Instagram, that use the same algorithms as slot machines, which are addictive. It’s like, I feel like we’re just almost lackadaisically saying people have X and saying people have Y, when in reality it’s like… I don’t know. Maybe we look at what their lifestyle is like and we realize that like their behaviors are pretty normal, especially relative to the addictive behaviors that they’ve adopted, you know?


0:44:42.5 Mike Vacanti: Or look at their lifestyle and see like, oh you spent three hours scrolling mindlessly before bed, got not very much sleep of pretty poor quality, woke up, scrolled for an hour and a half, and then tried to go straight into difficult computer work. No wonder you couldn’t focus. Your dopamine was completely depleted.


0:45:02.0 Jordan Syatt: You wouldn’t take a gambling… You have a gambling addict, right? Someone who’s just at the slot machines all the time, whatever it is. And they’re like, oh I just really struggled to concentrate on work. It’s like, oh, you have ADHD. It’s like, no, you’re addicted to gambling because when you’re not working, you’re just gambling all the time. It’s like, that’s what people are doing with social media. They’re fucking constantly on social media. I have a really hard time concentrating. No. You have this is… You’ve developed an addiction to this fucking thing and taking Adderall isn’t going to fix it.


0:45:31.2 Mike Vacanti: Well, it will temporarily but there’ll be long-term consequences.


0:45:35.3 Jordan Syatt: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. It’s very interesting. And it’s worrisome, obviously for adults but I would say more worrisome for children.


0:45:45.4 Mike Vacanti: 100%


0:45:47.0 Jordan Syatt: You’re just like giving these drugs to kids and just like…


0:45:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Five-year-old gets a script.


0:45:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, like it’s bad. It’s really really bad. I don’t think it’s natural to have kids be expected to sit down quiet for however many hours a day, and pay attention to a lecture. I just don’t… I don’t think that’s natural. And I struggled with that immensely as a kid. And it’s like, I just don’t think we’re supposed to.


0:46:14.0 Mike Vacanti: What you’re describing is what I’m sure you were diagnosed with, which is the hyperactivity end of the categorization. There’s also just an inattentiveness end of it, where you’ll have a kid. And this is more in girls and women actually, where there isn’t a hyperactivity component, but there is just a significant inability to focus on anything that they’re not interested in, which is like the daydreamer archetype.


0:46:43.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s interesting, especially because the hyperactivity part inherently implies that you have an excess of activity. You have excess energy. It’s just like, I don’t know. I feel like a nine-year-old kid should have a lot of energy. You know? I don’t think it’s maybe… I don’t know. Are you conditioning these kids to be hypo active? I don’t understand. Maybe they’re just, the kids that you say are neutral active have the right amount. Maybe they’re just so fearful of reprimand and the hyperactive kids that you’ve deemed hyperactive are just like, they’re not as fearful of the reprimand. And so, they’re just whatever… You know what I mean? That was me. I just didn’t care.


0:47:31.8 Mike Vacanti: And the solution to that seems pretty straightforward, which is a higher percentage of physical activity during the school day and a lower percentage of sit down and listen.


0:47:42.7 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:47:43.5 Mike Vacanti: It can’t be 95% sit down and listen, 5% go play for 15 minutes. That isn’t optimal.


0:47:51.4 Jordan Syatt: It was so bad when I was in school. ‘Cause if I acted out which I would all the time, they’d keep me in from recess. And that made it worse and then, during lunch, you’re not allowed to go and visit other tables and move around, you have to sit down at your one table, and it’s like the whole day, you’re just supposed to sit down and not move. It’s like, what the fuck do you expect and then you’re labeled as you’re hyperactive, it’s like, no, you’re a kid. It’s… I don’t get it. All right. So, @catdaddy asked a really unique question. I was going to answer it on my Q and A, and I might at some point. I don’t think anyone’s ever asked me this before. “What was a mindset that you had to adjust and how did you do it?”


0:48:38.3 Mike Vacanti: I think I’ve talked about this before but… And it’s pretty cliche and straightforward, but if anyone has read about a fixed versus a growth mindset, which is essentially a growth mindset being the belief that you can change and improve yourself in any arena through hard work, discipline versus a fixed mindset, which would be, this is just the way I am. There’s nothing I can do about it. I don’t know that I ever necessarily had a fixed mindset, but I definitely developed more of a growth mindset through middle school and into high school being a not amazing athlete, and then getting cut from a team in eighth grade, a hockey team, and realizing that it’s actually within my control how much better I want to get at this sport.


0:49:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Do I want to shoot 300 pucks a day in the off season? Do I want to do plyometrics? Do I want to… Because if I do these things then I’m going to be better on the ice. So, this is all a decision that I can make. It was a mindset shift that then carried over into school. And I would attribute that experience in sports, in general, to me being competitive around grades, study more, work harder, get better grades, higher class rank, like could potentially get into better college. All of that snowballed into future potential for accomplishment.


0:50:17.1 Jordan Syatt: I like that. You want to briefly explain like fixed first growth mindset?


0:50:21.8 Mike Vacanti: Growth mindset… In a growth mindset, people believe that their most basic abilities can be developed through dedication and hard work…


0:50:28.7 Jordan Syatt: Got it.


0:50:31.2 Mike Vacanti: Fixed mindset is a way of thinking about your own intelligence and abilities. Specifically, it describes viewing your intelligence and abilities as innate and unchangeable.


0:50:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. That’s a good one. I like that a lot. I think for me, when I was younger, I think I fell into the wanting to be a victim. Almost using any victimhood as a justification for bad behavior or for not performing as well as I could have. And it’s funny, ’cause JP has spoken about it and some of the stuff that he’s spoken about has resonated with me deeply, where he spoke… This one line or idea ’cause it’s not a verbatim quote but the idea of, it’s very addicting to be attached to your victimhood, right? It’s it’s an addicting feeling to be, this is what I’ve suffered. This is what I’ve gone through. And this justifies my behavior now.


0:51:46.6 Jordan Syatt: And to have, to see the empathy that people will give you because of your victimhood, and to feel the sympathy and to feel the the… How people will allow you to get away with things because of what you’ve been through, can be very addicting. And so for me, when I was younger and I say “younger,” I mean, like young, young teens to mid to late teens, really relying on that as a strategy of getting through life. Whereas eventually, getting to a point of being like, it’s just gross for me. This is not helping me at all. It’s not a good look for me. It’s not going to last. And shifting from the victim to the, regardless of whatever’s happened, I have control. And I’m going to take personal responsibility. So it’s that like victim versus personal responsibility mindset shift. I think, that for me is probably my biggest one that I’ve gone through.


0:52:52.7 Mike Vacanti: Huge.


0:52:52.8 Jordan Syatt: That I can think of right now.


0:52:54.1 Mike Vacanti: Huge. Because no one cares if you’re… Even if you are a victim, no one cares.


0:52:57.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Correct.


0:53:00.1 Mike Vacanti: Like what are you going to do?


0:53:00.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s not… When we say no one cares, yes, it’s partly no one cares, but it’s also like, it doesn’t matter. Right? That’s really what it boils down to. For me, it’s like your victimhood, it doesn’t matter in the sense of, it doesn’t justify bad behavior, period.


0:53:20.5 Mike Vacanti: Correct. Correct.


0:53:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Right. So if you treat someone poorly, it doesn’t matter that you… I understand. And I care, and I’m like, it sucks that you went through that, but like fuck you for doing it to someone else. And it doesn’t justify you treating someone else poorly. And so like, that’s when I say, “no one cares,” that’s what I mean. It’s like, it doesn’t matter. Like it’s done. It’s over. Now what are you going to do about it? And if your answer is, this happened to me so I can do it to someone else, where I can treat someone else poorly in a different way because of what’s happened to me.


0:53:55.2 Mike Vacanti: Can you give an example?


0:53:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Of how I did it or how other people do it? Or…


0:53:58.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, maybe like, when you’re talking about passing on, someone doing something to you, you could be a victim.


0:54:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean, there are so many… I mean, we could use a classic example of being abused, which is like, we see this all the time. Someone’s abused when they’re younger and then they become an abuser as they get older, and the statistics on this are pretty clear that if you are abused as a child, you’re more likely to become an abuser as you get older; especially young boys, if they’re abused as a young kid, they’re more likely to become abusers. And I think the statistics for young girls are, if they’re abused as a young girl, they’re more likely to become abused as they get older, they go into those relationships.


0:54:45.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s the first one that comes to mind, but the way that I think about it, is almost in like smaller, everyday type, like almost less serious type things, where it’s like, you were lied to, so now you start lying to other people, right? Little things. It’s not even like big massive things that are as bad as physical abuse. It’s like little daily acts, the things that that were done to you that now you do to other people; the lies, the deceit. Things like that, I think, are… And then justifying it based on how you were treated or you were brought up.


0:55:31.0 Mike Vacanti: Cool. Where my mind goes with that is, and this could potentially be helpful for single men, is to the incel community. You’ll see guys in there who adopt a victim mindset of, I’m only 5’8″, no girl’s going to like me ’cause I’m only 5’8, so what’s the point in even trying? Just getting black pilled. And there can be good reason for why they’ve adopted that mindset based on their life, but that’s the classic example of my mind of, well, first of all, you could be shorter and still absolutely crush it, but there are certain traits that are not within your control and then there are tons of things that are within your control. So, sitting around and being a victim, hoping someone’s going to feel bad for you versus taking action on the things that you can do to improve yourself, there’s a very clear route here.


0:56:41.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I see that one a lot. I got in a fight with… Not a fight, a debate with someone about this years ago on Twitter, this guy was going off, being… What did he say? What’s the word? It was, there’s a whole word about a dude’s being short and a stigma against short dudes, da da da… I forget what the word is, but there’s a whole word. And he was like, yeah, it’s just girls aren’t attracted to guys who are shorter, da da da. And it’s like… And he was just going off complaining. He had a big audience and he was getting a lot of engagement around it. And I was pissed off. I was like, dude, shut the fuck up. Shut up. This is why, by the way. And if we actually break down, yeah, I think biologically and evolutionarily, I think women generally tend to be more attracted to taller guys. I also don’t think that’s a bad thing, I don’t think that’s anything to hate women for, in the same way they’re biologically, evolutionarily, guys have things that they think are more attractive in women as well.


0:57:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Same thing. I don’t think either one should be demonized. I think it’s just, yeah, this is, let’s just understand biology, evolution… This makes sense. With that being said, what’s even more unattractive than being short is complaining about it. That compounds it by a factor of a hundred. It’s just like, you want to make it even worse is let’s just complain. And so, I feel like I got in a big debate with him about it, and I was like, listen… And he was like 5’6″ or 5’8″ or… I think he was 5’8″. And I was like, dude, I’m 5’4″. And that’s on a good day. Sometimes I go to the doctor and they’re like, you’re 5’3.


0:58:29.4 Jordan Syatt: You know what I mean? It depends on the day. So really, it depends on so much, but it’s really about how you carry yourself. And especially for men from that height perspective. Ironically, whenever I’ve posted about this on social media, ’cause I have some WNBA players who follow me, tall women who follow me, and they’re like, it’s so crazy ’cause I feel the exact same way you feel, but I used the same words as you, but flip short for tall, that’s how they feel. And so, it’s very interesting how it can work in reverse, but so much of it is just how you carry yourself, especially as a man, where it’s like, I have some friends who are my height, especially growing up, I had some friends who were my height, but they were these guys that their energy about them, it’s like, you don’t think about it.


0:59:25.1 Jordan Syatt: You don’t think about their height at all. Maybe initially, when you first see them, oh wow, they’re really short, but within a minute, they just have this huge energy. And it doesn’t mean that they’re loud and boisterous. It just means they’re so comfortable and confident with who they are that it’s not even something you consider anymore. But when someone, they make it their identity and it becomes part of this victimhood, it’s just, arguably the most nauseating and unattractive thing that you can do is just make that your identity. And that goes for being short for men, but for making anything your victimhood. If you make whatever your victimhood is your persona, it’s gross. Period. It’s just not a good look.


1:00:08.7 Mike Vacanti: Spot on. Spot on, brother. Should we do one more?


1:00:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. We’re going for a long one today.


1:00:15.6 Mike Vacanti: We’re giving the people a long one. We give… High energy. We’re only recording one today.


1:00:20.3 Jordan Syatt: All right. @bslager78 said, “What do you recommend for back exercises for someone who sits a lot for work?”


1:00:29.4 Mike Vacanti: I feel like we have answered this question.


1:00:32.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, really?


1:00:32.9 Mike Vacanti: No, No, no, no, no. I still like it. Let’s do it. It’s a good one. But I feel like we’ve answered it conventionally several times over the years on the pod. So I’m going to go…


1:00:42.0 Jordan Syatt: So, you want to answer it unconventionally?


1:00:42.2 Mike Vacanti: I’m going to go unconventional. I’m not just going to give you back… We can give some back exercises. But for someone… I was working in corporate America for two years, public accounting, 50, 55, 60 plus hours a week. And something intuitively felt so wrong about being in this room from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM, and then sometimes on Saturdays, in a chair, hunched over a computer. There were many…


1:01:16.4 Jordan Syatt: Gives me the heebie-jeebies.


1:01:18.2 Mike Vacanti: Me, too. There were many known reasons why I didn’t like it, but there were also intuitive reasons that I only know in hindsight why I didn’t like it. And one of them was the expectation to sit there in a seated position, not moving, not getting any blood flow, indoors for extended periods of time. And I could feel, I felt like it was my soul being crushed, but I think it was also my health. And one of the changes that I’ve made being in control of my own schedule at this point. And I actually made changes then too. I did a lot of… These other accountants definitely made fun of me. On day four of this client, I walked in with… We’re at a blue chip like Fortune 30 company auditing their financial statements, and I walk into the audit room with an end table, a shitty plastic end table. And I set it on top of the table and I put my computer on top of that. And I’m just standing there, working and people are laughing and taking pictures. And one of the managers was like, I don’t know if you should be doing that.


1:02:18.1 Jordan Syatt: Really?


1:02:20.4 Mike Vacanti: Yes, yes. The most square people.


1:02:24.4 Jordan Syatt: You must’ve been so pissed.


1:02:25.2 Mike Vacanti: I was like, I’m going to show you. So, even at the time, I was trying to make an effort to do something different, and it’s not just not being in a seated position, a lot of pain from sitting ends up being a result of frequency of postural changes. So someone… You can have two people who are both sitting for eight hours a day, but one person who’s sitting consistently for that time and one person who’s taking a two-minute break to stand up, twist, walk around a little bit. When you’re moving around more frequently, you’re going to end up feeling better. So, I don’t know if you’re working at home. I’ve started doing emails laying on the floor on my stomach, doing more things on the floor. I think that’s a big one.


1:03:10.5 Mike Vacanti: We joked about this a couple years ago when I first moved here, of having this space and laying on the ground and doing banana rolls and just getting into positions that you normally don’t get in in day-to-day life, unless you’re really focused on your mobility like some of us are. But finding ways to get into those positions leads to you feeling better. So we can talk about back exercises, but I think just not sitting at your computer for eight straight hours and doing anything else is one of the best things you can do to feel better over time.


1:03:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I love that. That’s got to be a clip. We got to clip that one, David. That was so good. And I completely agree. It’s one of those things, it was a really classic thing at gyms when I first started coaching when I was like 14, 15, 16, all the coaches would always tell their clients, they’d be like, hey, I only see you one, two, three hours a week, all the other hours at home, those matter more especially for fat loss. And I also feel like, yeah, it’s the same thing for movement. It’s like, I’m only seeing you for a couple hours a week and if I’m not seeing you, you’re training yourself, you really think 10 sets, which is a lot, by the way, if you’re doing 10 sets for your back at the end of the week, that’s going to make a massive difference if the rest of the hours of the week you’re just doing the same shit over and over and over again?


1:04:36.2 Jordan Syatt: So, changing your daily habits is absolutely essential. And the add-on to that, instead of going with the standard dumbbell rows, lat pulldowns, instead of doing that shit, let’s just go real just alternative. Your spine is designed to move in every direction. It’s just, it’s designed to move. It’s not designed to stay still. It’s not designed to just not rotate, to not bend. And so for me, dude, I’ll tell you what, Jefferson Curls have been so freaking good for my back, and I’ve had devastating back injuries before. And people get mad when I talk about this recently, but I’m not encouraging someone who’s been sitting at a desk for 22 years and has issues to just load up a barbell and start doing Jefferson Curls.


1:05:29.8 Jordan Syatt: But you can start doing movements that challenge the movement of your spine. Even something like a cat-cow. Cat-cow, get your spine moving. Elephant walks. Get your spine moving. I would say those are super good. You know what I like as well in addition to cat cows, elephant walks, Jefferson Curls? Supermans. Supermans demonized exercise by the science-based community for a long time. It’s like, why? Supermans are a great drill when you do ’em properly and you progress them properly. Supermans, awesome, awesome exercise. If you can do an overhead Superman and hold that for like 60 seconds, that’s pretty freaking good. I think that’s a really good drill to be doing. I think…


1:06:15.7 Mike Vacanti: Working up to 60 seconds?


1:06:19.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Starting off with 10 seconds and not hands overhead. It’s just, start there. Dude, lateral bending, big fan. And it’s funny, people see the lateral bending and they think it’s an oblique exercise. Yeah, you can do it to work your oblique, but you can also do it for spinal movement. You can do it without… Not necessarily to try and get thicker abs, but more just do it to move your spine properly. Love it. And not just doing it laterally, but doing it slightly forward, slightly backwards. I think one of my favorite movements that I’ve been doing with Lucas, in Range of Strength, has been a reverse Jefferson Curl, which I didn’t even know existed until I started doing it with him, where I get light dumbbells, I think I used like, I think now I’m up to either 15s or 20s, but I essentially stand maybe half a foot away from the wall, and I have dumbbells in each hand, and I arch backwards with the dumbbells in my hand until my belly button hits the wall and then I come back. And I had to work up to this.


1:07:28.7 Jordan Syatt: And when you just start out, you can start super close to the wall and you shouldn’t use any weight when you first start, and just work on developing that spinal extension backwards, so you can do these Jefferson Curls forwards, reverse Jefferson Curls backwards. Oh my God, dude. It feels absolutely amazing. And my back feels the best that it’s felt since I was a teenager.


1:07:46.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s amazing.


1:07:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


1:07:51.6 Mike Vacanti: Feels better than when you were pulling 4x body weight?


1:07:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Infinitely better. Infinitely better than when I was doing that. Yeah.


1:08:00.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s a great answer. Move, baby.


1:08:02.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s it.


1:08:04.2 Mike Vacanti: We need more movement. And I really, I feel for people who are stuck in day-to-day routines that don’t allow them to get much movement in, especially when they… You have the responsibility of a family, you might be under pressure in terms of bills. Even if the job you’re working is one that doesn’t allow you to move as much as you want, you’re in a position where you need the paycheck, I’m empathetic to those situations, but for anyone who isn’t there yet, I just… I think there’s a real, I’ve talked about this so many times, but I don’t hear anyone else talking about this… The materialism and consumerism in the West seems to drive a need to work certain types of jobs to make enough money to fund a lifestyle, but your set of behaviors that you exhibit from working that job are not good for your health. There’s the age… What’s it called, adage? Age old adage?


1:09:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Age old adage.


1:09:06.8 Mike Vacanti: Of, we sacrifice our health to make money and then pay money to get our health back, when it almost seems like you don’t need to do that. But then, I don’t know if I would take this advice. If you told 25-year-old Mike, hey, having X amount more money isn’t going to make you happier or isn’t going to make your life better, you can work less and focus more on your health now, I don’t know if I would’ve listened at that point. You almost need to…


1:09:34.9 Jordan Syatt: You definitely would not have.


1:09:36.4 Mike Vacanti: I definitely would not have. You definitely need to go, well, I would not have, because I’m stubborn and kind of an idiot, but I think other people might be better at…


1:09:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Other people might, yeah.


1:09:46.1 Mike Vacanti: Heeding the advice of others and learning from others’ mistakes, rather than making mistakes yourself and thinking, oh no, I’m going to adjust my lifestyle. I actually don’t need to do these things that aren’t great for my health to get more, I’m going to let my foot off the gas a little bit, do some things that are better for my health. I think on a population scale, that is something that’s actually within the control of the individual, and something that we’re missing and something that would make people’s lives a lot better.


1:10:11.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, completely agree. Clip that.


1:10:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Clips nation, baby.


1:10:16.5 Jordan Syatt: Thanks for listening to How to Become a Personal Trainer podcast.


1:10:20.8 Mike Vacanti: If you’re not subscribed to our YouTube channel, we are uploading on YouTube many times a week. We got clips. We got full episodes there. We got shorts there. We would really appreciate you subscribing. It’s @personaltrainerpodcast is the name over on YouTube. We’ll throw a link in the show notes. And yeah, thank you for listening. We might… Should we do a sale for the mentorship soon? I feel like we haven’t done a sale in a while.


1:10:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Maybe. We haven’t done a sale for a while… Well, we’ll see. We’ll see.


1:10:50.7 Mike Vacanti: We’ll see. We’ll see.


1:10:52.1 Jordan Syatt: You definitely should apply… Apply a link in the show notes if you want to apply to join, but yeah, maybe we’ll do a sale, maybe we won’t. Either way, we’d love to have you in there.


1:10:57.9 Mike Vacanti: Have a great day and a great week. See you soon.

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