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In this episode, we discuss what every personal trainer and coach needs to understand immediately. Do not miss this episode. Seriously.


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-J & M


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0:00:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it is the sale, it’s the sale, Michael, we are live with the sale, and here’s the deal: If you sign up right now for the mentorship, you get $500 off when you join, and this is the lowest price the mentorship will ever be. Okay? So if you want to join the mentorship right now, join it, join it. Now is your chance. If you wanna build your online coaching business, if you wanna help people all over the world, if you want to reach more people to improve their health, their fitness, their strength, their nutrition, if you want to make an impact on the world while growing your own business, supporting yourself, supporting your family, this is it, and this is not, again, this isn’t for the fucking gurus and for the high-ticket nonsense, so this is just for the serious coaches who wanna be better coaches with better systems, get more organized, get more serious, and learn how to help more people. That’s it. And if you’re in this for the long haul, if you’re in this looking for the quick fix coaching program, this isn’t that either. You should probably join knowing that you’re gonna be in it for at least six months, bare minimum, because that’s where you’re gonna get the best results. So if you wanna join, $500 off link is in the show notes. And you can apply there.


0:01:24.0 Mike Vacanti: Beautiful. Well said. Yeah. Sale is live, won’t be live for much longer a week perhaps from now, and we only do this once a year, sometimes twice a year, usually once a year, last one was nine months ago, so if you wanna get in at the lowest cost that it’ll ever be, get in now. Jordan made a great point. This is not a cold DM-ing tutorial, this is not Jordan Belfort’s School of Hard Closing, this is not any of that nonsense, this is… You know what? This is gonna transfer seamlessly from this little pitch we’re doing right here into the episode, because I had something I wanna talk about. You know what’s super underrated?


0:02:00.7 Jordan Syatt: The mentorship.


0:02:03.8 Mike Vacanti: No, but in terms of building a business, retention and referrals…


0:02:07.7 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yep.


0:02:08.7 Mike Vacanti: Which comes through good coaching and helping your clients make progress, having your clients know that you actually care about them, being a good communicator, being supportive, but really through being a great coach. When you have high levels of retention and referrals, you don’t need to be posting as much, you don’t need to have as big of an audience, you don’t need constant lead generation, you don’t need to send a hundred DMs per day. You don’t need to do door-to-door sales. That’s great if you wanna be a salesman or a saleswoman, but then go take a sales training or go be a salesperson. If you wanna be a great coach and build your business that way, mentorship or no mentorship, it’s a better option for people who want long-term success in business.


0:02:51.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I completely agree. It’s one of those things, I’ve been to a lot of different fitness events… Sorry, business events as a speaker, and listening to a lot of what the other speakers talk about has really blown me away how so much of their talks are about high-end sales tactics. And I’m just like, you don’t need that. It’s crazy how much time and money coaches are spending on sales tactics, when really, if they just spent more of their time on showcasing on helping people with their coaching knowledge, they wouldn’t need to try and learn all these crazy sales tactics. You’re essentially learning how to try and convince someone to purchase from you, when the reality is, if you just show how knowledgeable you are and how kind you are, you don’t need to convince them, they’re already bought in, it’s really wild, and that’s been something that’s taken me aback at how much time and money coaches are spending on trying to learn how to convince people to sign up for their coaching, when their time would be better spent just showing people how good of a coach they are by helping them for free. It’s a much better strategy.


0:04:04.1 Mike Vacanti: And then they get to spend their time doing the things they want to do, which is helping people, not constantly selling. Right?


0:04:11.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Exactly.


0:04:12.2 Mike Vacanti: If you have people who just want to become clients without needing to spend hours on the phone or hours back and forth in DMs or 20 emails back and forth, it’s much easier and much more enjoyable too. And I speak from experience when I say this because you know, I haven’t done any lead gen, lead gen since really, 2018. And I’m still here coaching. So it actually works.


0:04:41.4 Jordan Syatt: Yes, correct.


0:04:44.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay. I have a story.


0:04:45.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. Man, you’ve been holding on to this one.


0:04:49.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m driving… It just happened this morning… I’m driving to the gym this morning.


0:04:54.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Okay.


0:04:56.3 Mike Vacanti: About halfway there, I pull up to… It’s a little two-lane road with a stop light, and there’s a car in front of me, and I’m the second car at the light, so there’s a right turn lane, we’re both going straight. I assume it’s an older person, I think an older woman based on the hair and the car.


0:05:15.0 Jordan Syatt: Is it poofy hair?


0:05:17.1 Mike Vacanti: A little poofy, I can’t tell if it’s super bleached blonde or gray, but it’s poofy and I pull behind her. Light goes green, by the way, this… I don’t know what you’re expecting out of the story, but light goes green, she’s just sitting there, probably five seconds, three, four cars come through on the other side. And I’m patient, I’m in no rush. It’s a sunny day. I’m having a great day, and I’m just sitting there and eventually, I think she’s… I don’t know what she’s doing…


0:05:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Asleep.


0:05:48.8 Mike Vacanti: But I just give… Yeah, asleep perhaps, but I give her a real nice little… Just barely tap the horn, just beep, just a real nice one. Because in Minnesota, people don’t really use the horn like New York, it’s immediately slam on the horn one second after it goes green. In Minnesota, there’s not a lot of horns. So I wait legitimately five seconds, which is a long time, and I give her a little… And then another five seconds and nothing; and she didn’t like…


0:06:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, geez.


0:06:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Turn around or acknowledge it, she’s just sitting there, I’m like, oh, she’s having car trouble. And another few seconds goes by and there’s a line of cars behind me, and it’s been 15-20 seconds now, I’m like, okay, this lady is having car trouble, so I pull into the right turn lane to go around her. And I get around her and I don’t really look over to see, I just kinda go around her, a pretty slow pace and then come back, and then as soon as I go around her and have already passed her and I’m starting to go straight through the intersection, she starts going. So I was like, okay. I don’t know what was going on there, but I’m driving. Drive for a while. She’s a ways behind me…


0:07:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh no.


0:07:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Think nothing of it. Think nothing of it. On this straight two-lane road for about a mile, she’s way back there, I think nothing of it.


0:07:08.3 Jordan Syatt: You’re just listening to music or a podcast or something?


0:07:14.1 Mike Vacanti: Listening to music. Ready to go train. Get on the highway. Merge onto the highway. I’m going kind of slow because there’s a semi in front of me, but we both get on the highway and kind of as soon as I get on the highway, I see this car coming up fast behind me. I am like this is kind of weird. And I’m on the highway now, I’ve merged into the left lane, there aren’t a lot of cars out and about, and I’m getting up 60, 65. I think the speed limit’s 65…


0:07:41.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, this is such a good story. You’re building this up so well, I’m loving this. This is great.


0:07:47.7 Mike Vacanti: 70 miles an hour, I’m in the left lane, and in the rear-view mirror, I see this old lady swerving in and out of cars, catching up to me. And I’m like… You have people who are just aggressive drivers and you know who they are, and you stay out of their way, you let them weave in and out of cars and just, I don’t want road rage, I don’t want anything. But when you have someone who is so polarized like asleep at a stop light for 20 seconds, like going 25 miles an hour in a 35, and then now she’s weaving in and out of cars on the highway doing 70, I’m starting to get a little concerned. I’m like, is this person stable? What’s going on with them? So I speed up a little bit more. I’m in the left lane, 75, speed up a little bit more…


0:08:36.9 Jordan Syatt: You’re trying to get away from this old lady. [laughter]


0:08:37.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m trying to get away from her because I don’t know what’s going on. I’m doing 80 in the left lane. She is on my tail; 85 on my tail. I think she’s gonna try and run me off the road. I’m doing 90 in the left lane, on my tail, and at this point, I’m like, something’s off here, like I don’t know if it’s sitting on CNN all day long, I don’t know if it’s prescription medication, I don’t know if it’s not enough things to care about, but something flipped in this lady who was asleep at the light, who now is like, I don’t know what she’s doing, but I’m doing 90 in the left lane, and she’s three feet behind me.


0:09:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh my gosh.


0:09:18.4 Mike Vacanti: And in my mind, I’m like, maybe it’s not an old lady, maybe it’s like a mentally unstable person. Does she have a gun in the car? I don’t know what’s going on. So what I do is, I slow down slightly, so that there’s a car next to me on the right and she’s behind me, and I wait until there’s an exit coming up, and then I speed up in front of the car, get into the right-hand lane and immediately exit so that she can’t exit; like I’m out of that situation, didn’t want anything going on there, don’t know what’s going on with her or potential weapons or… I don’t know. But just, like if it was a big truck and some dude, it would be pretty standard because you’d expect something; if there was an altercation or you know, just kinda get in the right lane, let whatever happen, but this just felt like a mentally unstable person which led me to thinking so many things throughout my workout along the lines of so many things from, okay, we should all be carrying at all times, was one thought. Another was, I need get out of where I live because people are losing it, people in the west are becoming unhinged for a variety of reasons that we can go in on; I need 20 acres out in the middle of nowhere, or I’d like to lead a charge to create better people in the world, which is a big ask. I don’t know if I’m ready to dedicate my life to that, nor could I even make a dent in it, but anyway, I feel like I had a brush with death.


0:10:54.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that’s crazy.


0:10:54.5 Mike Vacanti: It was so bizarre.


0:10:55.8 Jordan Syatt: That was also a bold move to go right next to someone and almost like box yourself in a little bit. I understand the tactic to then speed up and make it so she connects it, that was a bold move.


0:11:09.7 Mike Vacanti: It was for like five seconds. Well, what was my other option? I wasn’t gonna do 110 on this road. Thankfully, there were no cars in front of me that I came up to when I was going over the speed limit because that would have boxed me in unintentionally.


0:11:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dude, that’s crazy. And when you passed her at the intersection, you didn’t look left to see what she looked like or what… If she was sleeping?


0:11:35.1 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t even glance. No.


0:11:36.4 Jordan Syatt: You didn’t even glance?


0:11:36.4 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t even glance because I didn’t want her to think I was giving her some dirty look for going around her, I was like okay. I don’t know what’s going on there, but I’m gonna go around.


0:11:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Dude, and the best part is, I’m just imagining you… I’m imagining this in a movie, so on one hand, you’re just driving, listening to music, and you’re just living it, having a great day.


0:11:55.0 Mike Vacanti: I was.


0:11:57.4 Jordan Syatt: And then it switches to her scene and she’s just fucking pissed and she’s like, “That motherfucker!” [laughter] She’s just so mad. And like you’re going back and forth between you and her and you’re just oblivious, like no issues whatsoever. And then she’s back she’s like, “I’m gonna catch that motherfucker, I’m gonna go get him.” Oh, man, dude, at what point did you realize there was a problem? Was it on the highway?


0:12:20.3 Mike Vacanti: It was on the highway.


0:12:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Wow.


0:12:25.2 Mike Vacanti: Because why wasn’t she riding me for the three to five minutes before we got to the highway when she easily could have?


0:12:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s weird. That’s very… And did you see what she looked like in your rear-view mirror?


0:12:36.2 Mike Vacanti: No, I couldn’t really. And just out of safety, I wasn’t gonna sit there trying to make out her face in my rear-view mirror…


0:12:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Going 95.


0:12:43.8 Mike Vacanti: For the safety of other people on the road, just…


0:12:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh my gosh. Dude, that’s crazy. I’m glad you’re okay.


0:12:49.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And that’s not a common experience.


0:12:54.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s the opposite of common.


0:12:58.8 Mike Vacanti: But for me, you know me, I’m fear 3 out of 100, so to have something that slightly rattled me and made me think something was off, I think something was very off with this person.


0:13:06.5 Jordan Syatt: I am glad you got some fear though. I think it’s important for you, ’cause you’re so not fear-driven that and you have such little fear in your life… I am glad that you had a little bit more fear today.


0:13:15.6 Mike Vacanti: No, I’m trying to take my fear the opposite direction.


0:13:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, your fear is so low already, I think it’s important.


0:13:24.2 Mike Vacanti: No. Fear is bad.


0:13:25.5 Jordan Syatt: I don’t want anything bad to happen…


0:13:25.9 Mike Vacanti: Thou shall not fear.


0:13:26.0 Jordan Syatt: I just want you to be fearful that it will. [laughter]


0:13:30.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m not… We aren’t born with a spirit of fearfulness, Jordan.


0:13:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Man, were the other cars behind you honking?


0:13:40.0 Mike Vacanti: People don’t honk in Minnesota.


0:13:41.5 Jordan Syatt: So no one honked… You’re the only one that honked?


0:13:44.5 Mike Vacanti: Yes, and it wasn’t even a honk, it was a little love…


0:13:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Like…




0:13:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, exactly.


0:13:50.8 Jordan Syatt: What’s more harsh? Is it like the…




0:13:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Or is it like the…




0:13:54.9 Jordan Syatt: If you did two? What if you did like…




0:13:57.5 Jordan Syatt: Would that have been nicer?


0:14:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Look, we’re dealing with the margins here, if the two honks would have saved me from getting run down by this horror movie scenario, you know.


0:14:06.5 Jordan Syatt: I’m just wondering for my own future reference or even just for your opinion, what’s nicer? The one brief or the two brief?


0:14:14.7 Mike Vacanti: Maybe the two brief, I know what’s the least is the New York City taxi cab just hold on the horn. That’s the least nice.


0:14:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.




0:14:23.5 Jordan Syatt: They do that before it even turns green, they know when it’s about to turn green, so they’ll start honking while it’s red and then yelling and cussing at you while it’s going. Yeah. Yeah, but…


0:14:32.7 Mike Vacanti: They’re ready to go.


0:14:33.0 Jordan Syatt: I actually, I think the one is nicer, it’s just like a, I’m not in a rush, like…




0:14:40.3 Jordan Syatt: I think that’s nicer. And two is like, hey, I’m trying to be nice, but I’m also a little bit upset.


0:14:42.7 Mike Vacanti: I also had my old lady filter on, which was, if that wasn’t that demo, I would have honked so much sooner, but I just sat there and let all these cars go from the other side, just watching the birds chirp.


0:14:56.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s a long light, too, to be sitting there for 20 seconds and nothing like… That’s crazy. I can’t believe no one else was honking.


0:15:03.5 Mike Vacanti: You’re an East Coast guy at heart.


0:15:05.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s just common for the Midwest, just nothing, no honks?


0:15:10.3 Mike Vacanti: It is.


0:15:11.4 Jordan Syatt: Did your parents ever honk? When you were a kid, did they ever honk at people? Like your dad, did he ever get pissed?


0:15:13.6 Mike Vacanti: My dad. My mom wasn’t a honker, no. In fact, I think my mom thought it was bad to honk, but my dad was a honker or would honk.


0:15:23.8 Jordan Syatt: He would, but not regularly, but if he was angry, he would?


0:15:27.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t know if anger is the right word, but he would use his horn, he would say that it’s a tool that we have in the car and… That’s what he would use them for.


0:15:33.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s what he would say? [laughter]


0:15:36.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m guessing, I don’t know. I need to ask him.


0:15:38.2 Jordan Syatt: Would he justify his honking? Would he be like, hey, this is a tool? [laughter]


0:15:41.1 Mike Vacanti: I think probably… Probably rightly so. Probably… If someone is… Because he’s right, if someone is changing lanes into you, for example…


0:15:52.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you gotta let them know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:15:53.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, exactly.


0:15:53.9 Jordan Syatt: And say, hey, wake up.


0:15:55.9 Mike Vacanti: Or hey, I’m here. Don’t hit me. But yeah, I really think that one, humans aren’t built to live in cities, this gives us a great transition if you wanna run with it, but two the increase in mental health issues, the increase in isolation, the lack of community these days that people have, the increase in prescription drugs that specifically impact the brain, there’s a lot of factors in society today that have people unhinged.


0:16:22.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude…


0:16:24.4 Mike Vacanti: And I think it’s a bad trend that we’re on.


0:16:27.8 Jordan Syatt: I think increased loneliness, like more screen time and all the stuff… Dude, I wanna see… Let’s see what I find on my Instagram. I’m gonna open my Instagram right now just to see what the first fucking post that comes up is, and see how this affects. My first… God. This isn’t good. Yeah, it’s not good. This is the first post that comes up, it’s from an account called @natureismetal, and it’s this is terrible. I don’t even know if I wanna say this. This is just terrible. The first post is like a neighborhood dog getting eaten by coyotes. That’s just the first post that I see, is just… The first thing that comes up on my page. Then the next thing is about…


0:17:15.1 Mike Vacanti: Cortisol-inducing.


0:17:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Is about Israel-Hamas hostages. Third thing is about, stop eating food with more than four ingredients. It’s just terrible. Literally, I just opened it right now, it’s the first thing that I fucking see. It’s no wonder. And that’s just mine, I wonder what other people’s are, but it’s just not good. And then, the more screen time, less community, less talking, less movement. It’s just terrible. It’s really terrible. When do you think the peak of humanity was, what decade? What years? I think the ’90s, I feel like the ’90s were like peak human life on earth thus far.


0:17:58.9 Mike Vacanti: I like that you said “thus far,” because I’m hopeful and optimistic that peak humanity is ahead of us. I had a discussion with a couple of friends at lunch last week about this and kind of why 1990 to 2010 felt so much different than life today, and one of them said, iPhone plus social media on phone is the biggest difference, which I agree with.


0:18:27.8 Jordan Syatt: 100%.


0:18:29.9 Mike Vacanti: So maybe that was the peak. But there has to be a pull back, there has to be recognition that this world that we live in, of hyper-comfort, hyper-ease, hyper-pleasure, hyper-stimulation, is actually having a net negative effect and we course-correct, and maybe that’s not Gen Z that course-corrects, maybe that’s whatever is after them, but… I think it has to happen.


0:19:00.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m always bad with, is Gen Z… What generation is Gen Z? How old are they?


0:19:03.2 Mike Vacanti: ’95, born in ’95 through, I don’t know if it’s 10, 11, 12 years. ’95 to ’05 some… Here we can give a real answer.


0:19:12.7 Jordan Syatt: What’s like the youngest generation right now?


0:19:15.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m sorry. Gen Z is ’97 to 2012. So 12 to 27.


0:19:21.9 Jordan Syatt: And what’s the one after them?


0:19:25.1 Mike Vacanti: Generation Alpha, 2010 to 2024.


0:19:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay. And what are we?


0:19:30.7 Mike Vacanti: We’re Millennials, Jordan.


0:19:32.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, we are?




0:19:34.7 Mike Vacanti: You’re the best.


0:19:36.5 Jordan Syatt: That doesn’t seem to make sense to me. Why would we be Millennials? But we weren’t born on the millennia. We were born before it.


0:19:40.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. Y2K?


0:19:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But aren’t those Gen Z?


0:19:44.3 Mike Vacanti: No, they were three. They didn’t know about Y2K. They were just playing with rocks.


0:19:53.4 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. Okay. We’re Millennials. Cool.


0:19:56.6 Mike Vacanti: But yeah, something needs to change.


0:20:00.4 Jordan Syatt: You know how, like, we’ll… Like our generation will be like, yeah, the Boomers like, we’ll just talk like… The Boomers. Like, what? So, Gen Alpha’s gonna be like, yeah, the Millennials… [laughter]


0:20:16.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That is… That’s the right gap. That’s actually weird when you put it like that.


0:20:21.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Those Millennials though, they’re fucking can’t do anything. They can’t time travel. They can’t figure out the time machine…




0:20:30.5 Mike Vacanti: What’s interesting is we are the last generation that remembers pre-internet era. And actually, you know, had a childhood that didn’t involve the internet.


0:20:43.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:20:44.2 Mike Vacanti: There were video games, obviously, but…


0:20:47.3 Jordan Syatt: Gameboy.


0:20:47.7 Mike Vacanti: There was more activity, more outdoors, more play, more community. I have it on my list to read this new book, The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt, which is about the effects of social media and cell phone use on kids who grew up native to the platforms.


0:21:09.4 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.


0:21:10.4 Mike Vacanti: So I’ll share if there’s anything interesting that comes from there. Speaking of cities though, that we kinda got to this, but you shared with me an interesting Instagram post about walking; walking in an urban environment versus walking in nature versus being sedentary.


0:21:26.2 Jordan Syatt: Wasn’t that cool? Yeah. It was breaking down a study showing the differences, like if you don’t walk versus if you walk in a city versus if you walk in nature. And the difference is on your, like, obviously, walking in general is better than no walking at all. And that was pretty significant. But it was very cool to see the difference in brain activity from walking in an urban environment to walking in nature. I thought that was very cool and just makes me appreciate like, getting up in the morning, smelling the fresh grass and like being able to walk outside in like, in our little nature path that we have, really made me appreciate that even more. Just like, ’cause I was craving that after years and like a decade plus living in cities and concrete jungles, and not really having immediately accessible nature. It’s just, it was really cool to see that.


0:22:16.8 Mike Vacanti: Jordan, tell everyone the story of when you first…


0:22:20.0 Jordan Syatt: Barefoot.


0:22:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Moved from Israel to New York City. [laughter]


0:22:22.9 Jordan Syatt: I knew you were gonna bring that up. Mike… Have I told this before in the podcast?


0:22:27.2 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:22:27.8 Jordan Syatt: You would know better.


0:22:29.4 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:22:29.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, no?


0:22:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Nope.


0:22:35.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, man. So, like, when I lived in Israel, obviously, this wouldn’t be acceptable everywhere, but like, I lived right along the beach and so, you know, it’s like a beach town, so people are, at least where I was, it was right on the beach in Tel Aviv. And so, people walk around shoe-less when they’re living in beach areas. And I was just in a very, like, I was never a hippie, but like, I was like a beach bum. I loved being on the beach. I liked being like more carefree, did whatever. So I moved to New York to start coaching Gary, and I’m still in that phase. And I’m not wearing shoes in New York City, like in the streets of New York, I’m just walking around New York City, like around Jones Street, West Fourth, just like in the West Village, just walking around town, no shoes on.


0:23:22.6 Jordan Syatt: And I didn’t have a big audience on social media at all. I had a couple of thousand followers and I was doing stories and showing myself like, just… But I didn’t make a big deal of it. I just did like, hey, here I am walking. And people would be like, oh my God, are you walking around New York City barefoot? I’d be like, yeah, why? They’d be like, that is so disgusting. [laughter] And like, I would get back to my apartment and my feet were black on the bottom and, you know, and then I was like, I started to pay closer attention to it, and there was a lot of broken glass and people peeing on the fucking road, just like, not…


0:23:55.2 Mike Vacanti: Pooping, throwing up…


0:23:56.7 Jordan Syatt: Not a good idea for New York City.


0:24:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Garbage, trash everywhere… That story, I love your innocence in it and I think you’re actually living right in that story. You’re grounded, you’re walking barefoot, you got the toes splayed, you’re just out getting some sun, enjoying yourself. It’s the city that’s wrong, not you that’s wrong.


0:24:17.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude…


0:24:18.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m a big fan of outdoor barefoot, which is just a testament to time spent in nature.


0:24:24.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:24:26.7 Mike Vacanti: Back to that study, there was additional benefits on the brain scan. I didn’t dive into the study, I just kind of skimmed the Instagram post that you sent me, but the brain scan after walking in nature was better than the brain scan after walking through an urban environment.


0:24:44.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. It’s super cool. Also, just like out… Like having immediate access to nature is very nice. It’s like, it’s very calming. I walk out my door, boom! I can be in nature very quickly and I can hear the birds chirping and I can see the stars at night. And like, just having… In the city, you can’t see the stars, especially not in something like New York City. There’s so much light pollution that like, you just… You don’t see stars versus when you’re in an area with far less light, you’re able to see the stars and like, I don’t know, for me, it’s been wonderful. And, it’s funny, my wife and I were talking about this yesterday; yesterday or the day before, and she was like, I don’t think I could ever move back to a city. It’s just, I feel so much more calm now that I’m outside the city. You don’t even realize how stressed you are until you’re out of it…


0:25:34.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s true.


0:25:36.0 Jordan Syatt: But you love New York City. You’re a big New York City guy.


0:25:38.4 Mike Vacanti: As far as cities go, it’s the best city, but I’m not a city guy.


0:25:42.8 Jordan Syatt: Would you ever move back to the city?


0:25:45.9 Mike Vacanti: No. I think I’m less of a city guy than you are actually.


0:25:48.1 Jordan Syatt: No, no. Are you kidding?


0:25:51.1 Mike Vacanti: For sure, I’m much more… How much camping have you done?


0:25:53.8 Jordan Syatt: How much camping? Dude, I’m a big camper.


0:25:55.5 Mike Vacanti: No, you’re not. I’m not a big camper either, but I know you’re not a big camper.


0:26:00.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m a big camper. [laughter] I want to be, like, I’m jealous of people who like could just go out and camp and light a fire and bring a bunsen burner, and just… They just camp. I’m super jealous of them. That’s, I really, you know, like watching… With that show.


0:26:22.7 Mike Vacanti: Naked and Afraid?


0:26:27.3 Jordan Syatt: No. What’s the show where they survive? They like… Alone; Alone, where they just send these people out into the fucking wild and just they survive, I don’t… You don’t have to be that extreme, but like, I would love just to be like, “Hey, we’re going away for the weekend, we’re camping.” I would love to really enjoy that. The idea of it sounds way more enjoyable to me than like the practical application. Like, I have gone camping before and I have done that, but then when it comes down to it, I don’t know, the mosquitoes really get to me and it’s just like, I don’t know. I’d rather be on the beach or something. That’d be more of my enjoyment.


0:27:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Look, as long as we’re not in a city, I’m with you.


0:27:10.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:27:10.6 Mike Vacanti: I got something interesting.


0:27:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay. What is that? What do you got?


0:27:13.3 Mike Vacanti: I think I find this interesting and other coaches might find this interesting because we changed the application process for the mentorship, whereas now, you have to apply to join, but before you could just sign up on the website. And the reason we did that is because we wanted to make sure that we can actually help a new coach or anyone applying to the mentorship with their goals before accepting them into the group. Most people who listen to the podcast seem to be aligned. We don’t get a lot of, you know, my goal is to make at least 10K a month within three months and that’s what’ll make me happy with getting into the mentorship. It’s much more, you know, I wanna become a better coach. I wanna learn to serve my clients better. Of course, I want to, you know, make more money to support my family as well, but the goals have been thus far much more aligned with the types of people that we enjoy helping, which is refreshing. And I don’t know, I found interesting.


0:28:12.9 Jordan Syatt: I think that makes sense, considering like we’ve cultivated a group of people who listen, who share the same values as us, right? Like, we’ve had people who are looking for the high ticket and like, I think those people, they drop off very quickly because they don’t see the value in what we discuss and what we… They don’t see the value in what we value. And so, they want the quickest way to make six figures or whatever it is. And so, when they hear us talking about long form content and becoming a better coach, and reading books and giving away, like, I think the biggest thing is like they hear giving away coaching for free early on, and they’re like, I’m out. I’m out. Absolutely not.


0:28:57.8 Mike Vacanti: Or training clients in person. It’s like, no, I don’t actually wanna train clients, I just wanna make as much money as possible online business, marketing, da da da.


0:29:05.7 Jordan Syatt: I think that if we… If we were, ’cause we don’t really announce this on social media or anything like that, I think that if we were less present on podcasts and more present on something like Instagram, we would have a higher percentage of people that we didn’t take on because it’s not as nuanced. It’s quicker content and people can get smaller doses and not really fully relate to us, and they wouldn’t fully know what we stand with. But because podcast is so, so, so in depth and so nuanced, they have a really good feel for who we are and what we believe in.


0:29:37.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s true. And there are definitely parallels with fitness coaching, right? For coaches making content, the more time they’re making content, the more of their audience that has been following them closely for a number of years, when they do apply for fitness coaching, oftentimes, they’ll have a higher acceptance rate because those people aren’t looking to lose 30 pounds in 30 days or do anything crazy or do a water fast because they saw a celebrity do a water fast, that like, those aren’t their goals. Their goals are aligned with the values and principles of the coach who’s making the content.


0:30:15.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, that’s exactly right. Okay. I got a question. It’s from @drunkensomm. He said, “What is your number one philosophy/goal as a trainer?”


0:30:29.7 Mike Vacanti: You wanna start with this one?


0:30:31.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh man, just. Alright. Just, you’re gonna take all the time to think and I’ll just have to just put it out there right off the top of my head.


0:30:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Or it’s vice versa.


0:30:41.6 Jordan Syatt: No, no. So here’s what I think. I’ll go first. Here’s what I think. First, he said, as a trainer, not as a business owner, which I think is an important distinction to make. Because obviously, they can be… You can be both at the same time, but I think it’s sort of like a Venn diagram. You have your trainer brain, you have your business owner brain, and you wanna merge them together to get the best of both worlds but also they are separate entities that need to be separate in order so that you can have the best of both, because they are very unique and individual. So, as a trainer, my number one, I almost think of it and I’m not a doctor at all, I am not a doctor, period, end of story, not a doctor.


0:31:32.1 Jordan Syatt: But one thing that doctors, part of their oath is, “First do no harm,” which I think is a really important, it’s an important philosophy. It’s an important tool, it’s an important line to really align yourself with, especially not just as you’re coaching people, but as you’re putting out content for people, I think is a very important philosophical guideline to bear in mind is, first do no harm. Where I think that might be the most important thing for me, especially as a coach who is creating content, because the reason I make content is to help people. I wanna help people. I want to improve their lives. I wanna make fitness more easy to understand, more accessible, more enjoyable. And while I wanna make it easy to understand and more accessible and more enjoyable, the guiding light to all of that is still, first do no harm.


0:32:29.5 Jordan Syatt: And I think when I’m making a piece of content, I really have to ask myself, is this going to hurt someone? Is this going to give the wrong message? Is this going to create fear? Is this going to damage their relationship with food or exercise? Is this going to cause them to stop exercising in some way? Is this going to do more harm than good? And so, for me, I think that’s my guiding philosophy, guiding principle of my education. Everything stems from wanting to help them, but first, I have to make sure I’m not hurting people. And if I do hurt people, if I have said something that could potentially hurt someone, recognizing it, apologizing, correcting it, making sure that people are aware of the mistakes that you’ve made, I think, is also very important. So I think letting the guiding principle be first do no harm.


0:33:24.2 Jordan Syatt: And if you do harm, make sure they know that you’ve changed your mind, you changed your opinion. I just saw someone do that today. There’s a great coach or a researcher who made a post two days ago that did harm. It was a post that was inaccurate, and it was more based on his emotion and then… And led people to believe something that was false. And then today, he clarified it and he actually, “Hey, I did this the other day. I said this was incorrect. It wasn’t complete. Here’s my actual stance on this from a more logical perspective,” which I loved. I thought that was fantastic. So I think the, “First do no harm” is something that we can take from doctors and keep in mind.


0:34:04.8 Mike Vacanti: I would argue, ’cause that was the first thing that came to mind for me…


0:34:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay.


0:34:09.8 Mike Vacanti: I would argue that that… I’m serious.




0:34:14.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you go first.


0:34:16.6 Mike Vacanti: Copy my answer.


0:34:17.2 Jordan Syatt: You go first. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking, that was the first thing that came to my mind too. [laughter]


0:34:21.6 Mike Vacanti: If we’re forced to choose one thing, I think that should be every trainer’s first guiding principle. And maybe guiding principle is the wrong term or number one goal might be the wrong term, but like at the base of every program you design, at the base of every piece of advice that you give, at the base of every piece of content you make, at the base of everything, that should be first. You don’t wanna leave this person in worse shape, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, than when they came to you, right? So bare minimum, they’re leaving the same they came to you, not worse.


0:35:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Yep.


0:35:09.3 Mike Vacanti: So I don’t know that I’m gonna be able to give another really good number one, but we can spitball and brainstorm a few of the other important components in being a great coach. [laughter] Fine. You want me to come up with my own? I’ll come up with my own. Read me the question again. Pull up that question, @drunken, whoever.


0:35:32.4 Jordan Syatt: Question is… @drunkensomm… I like @drunkensomm, always have some good things to say. He said, “What is your number one philosophy/goal as a trainer?”


0:35:39.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna go the complete so, you know my number one. I’m going opposite. I’m going for the bros. I’m going, and bros can be male or female.


0:35:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Whoa. [laughter]


0:35:52.3 Mike Vacanti: Not like bro, bro isn’t a gendered term, bro is a mindset. All right, Jordan? And you’ll know what I mean after I say this. You ready? This is more silly than anything else, but it popped into my head and we need to have fun on this podcast. ABR…


0:36:13.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow.


0:36:14.0 Mike Vacanti: Always Be Recomping.


0:36:15.5 Jordan Syatt: Okay. I like that.


0:36:16.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s not actually true though. It’s really hard to follow, it’s really hard to follow the doctor’s oath because you can’t always recomp or you eventually die. If you’re always recomping, you end up with zero fat, and like all of the muscle. There are so many things. We just talked a little bit about this in the Q&A with the mentorship that we did, but progressive overload is obviously, a crucial factor in almost all training programs. And that doesn’t just mean weight on the bar, there are other ways to make progress in the gym. It can be around progress around technique. It could be something as simple as progress around adherence to training. If you have someone who’s very untrained and you go from being extremely sedentary to getting them moving on a regular basis, that’s progressive overload.


0:37:09.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s a form of progressive overload. It can be via time under tension, it can be via volume, number of sets, number of reps… Yeah, there are many ways. But trying to improve in some measurable way and focusing on always having that goal as a component to a training program, making programs as easy to adhere to as possible, or something we’ve talked about a lot on here is not letting a client quit, quit on themselves. Quit on fitness…


0:37:49.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes. I was just about to say that.


0:37:49.4 Mike Vacanti: Quit on… Oh, I bet you were just about to say that one.


0:37:51.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s what I was gonna say. [laughter]


0:37:51.6 Mike Vacanti: I bet it was on the tip of your tongue, Jordan. Sure.


0:38:00.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s the other one. Yes.


0:38:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay. I bet it is, doctor’s oath. [laughter] It’s… There’s so many examples of times where you take… I’ll use a previous version of myself here, which is someone who was always pushing for more progress, always pushing for more strength, always pushing for, to be leaner. There are so many times in life where that doesn’t make sense. Five days a week, two-hour workouts don’t make sense. Being in a deficit for too long doesn’t make sense. There are times where you need to pump the brakes. It could be major life events, could be loss of a loved one, could be very busy with family, where you pull way back on intensity, you pull way back on frequency, you pull way back, you increase calories to maintenance. You take breaks from tracking. You do things… You stop training entirely for a month and are only focused on some, like, minimum step count. Anything you can do so that someone doesn’t completely fall off the wagon, and potentially not get back on, right?


0:39:19.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s so sad to think that someone who isn’t really into fitness, didn’t play sports growing up, you know, doesn’t enjoy it, but has been consistent for three, six months or maybe a year or two, it’s so sad to think that that person could have a last workout. They could be 33 years old, have a bad experience, have something go wrong, and never go back into a gym again, which is gonna negatively impact the duration of their life. And so, as a trainer, doing whatever we can to help our clients or anyone who’s watching us on social media, to not quit on themselves is a really important concept.


0:40:00.2 Jordan Syatt: I think that’s the other major one. Don’t let them quit. Do your absolute best to not let them quit. I think if those two, like first do no harm and your job is to make sure they don’t quit, do the best you possibly can to make sure they don’t quit, it’s very hard to go wrong. Just not letting them quit, not letting them give up no matter what, for all the reasons you just said, I don’t need to reiterate, but don’t let them quit. That should be, as long as they don’t quit, you’re doing well. And that’s it.


0:40:29.3 Jordan Syatt: So we’ve got a huge sale going on right now, $500 off. If you join the mentorship, make sure if you want to apply to join, go to the show notes and the link to apply is there. We’ll get back to you as soon as we possibly can. But if you wanna join, $500 off, we would love to have you. We’d love to speak with you about it, at the very least; if you have any questions, let us know. We appreciate your support. Have an amazing week, and we hope to see you in the mentorship.


0:41:00.1 Mike Vacanti: See you next week.

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