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In this episode, we discuss if it’s possible to build a successful fitness business without social media. (Hint: it is.) We also dive into ripping vapes (lol), the best resources for coaches, and more..


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:10.4 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.8 Jordan Syatt: Michael, they’ve got one week left to join the mentorship for $500 off.


0:00:17.4 Mike Vacanti: One week.


0:00:18.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s it.


0:00:19.8 Mike Vacanti: One week from when this episode goes live, which will be Tuesday, May 14th. So if it went live a few days ago, you have less than a week. The sale is over Tuesday, May 21st. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It’s been live for a month. If you missed it, better luck next year.


0:00:39.0 Jordan Syatt: And the price is gonna be higher next year, so you’ll still get money off, but it’ll be higher than it was this time, so.


0:00:45.3 Mike Vacanti: Correct.


0:00:45.9 Jordan Syatt: Congrats to everyone who already got in. We’ve loved having you in the Q&As already. It’s been wonderful seeing you. It’s been wonderful seeing all the people who had just joined all the members who’ve been in there for months and years. So it’s been wonderful. Really been great questions. Focusing on being better coaches, building better sustainable businesses, not being a mastermind guru, not following the methods of DM as many people as you possibly can, and just see how many convert to clients. None of that horse shit, got real, real coaching methods in there. And it’s wonderful to have really great high quality coaches in there, so.


0:01:20.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s been fun to see the like the ethos and values and ideals of the people in their applications over the years. Well, we haven’t been doing applications for years, but a lot of the people who have been applying to join the mentorship have been listening to the podcast for, some of them for a number of years. And even like them having some of our inside jokes within their application or I’m actually gonna read one that I found very funny.


0:01:51.0 Jordan Syatt: Did you share this one with me yet, or no?


0:01:53.1 Mike Vacanti: I hadn’t. We can share that one too. But in one of the questions we asked, which was something to the effect of, after one year of being in the mentorship, what would have to happen for you to be happy or to consider this a success? And this dude, Blake said, “I would expect to be an expert at high ticket sales and to learn about passive income so I can sit on a beach in Hawaii, do no work and watch money come straight into my bank account. Jokes. Jokes.” He says.


0:02:26.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s actually very funny.


0:02:28.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. A bunch of them. This dude, Chris talking about reminding us of back when we used to promise weekly uploads on the podcast, but then we wouldn’t upload for like six weeks. Yeah.


0:02:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Different times.


0:02:39.8 Mike Vacanti: Different times. We got.


0:02:41.6 Jordan Syatt: Serious.


0:02:42.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. We became serious, serious individuals. All right. One week left. That’s it. Where should we start today? Let’s start with, you had a new thing, and I am curious if it continued from week one to week number two?


0:03:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, oh… What was it?


0:03:03.2 Mike Vacanti: When… At Friday, it should be at sundown.


0:03:07.0 Jordan Syatt: Probably not good if I don’t remember… Oh, yeah, Yeah.


0:03:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Putting your phone away and then not touching it until the next day.


0:03:16.1 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yeah. So it didn’t go as well the second week, but I sort of made up for it. So I’ll explain the situation. So I don’t know if I… Did we explain this on the podcast? Or is this the first time they’re hearing about it?


0:03:28.2 Mike Vacanti: No.


0:03:28.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:03:29.0 Mike Vacanti: First time.


0:03:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Every Friday night to Saturday night is Shabbat. And there are many sort of rules, but it’s basically, it’s a day of arrest, right. And it comes from the Old Testament, on the seventh day, God rested and God has commanded us to rest on the seventh day. And on that day is no work, no electricity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So two weeks ago I just decided, you know what? I’m not gonna take the entire Shabbat all Friday night and all Saturday day away from my phone, but I’ll just do it on Friday night.


0:04:02.5 Jordan Syatt: So from dinner comes, I put my phone down, don’t look at it for the entire Friday night. And it was amazing. What I did do. So on Friday… This past Friday is I didn’t have the opportunity to work out earlier in the day, so I had to work out at night. So after dinner, after we put my daughter down, I went out into the gym and my wife went to bed. I did use my phone. So I didn’t use my phone before that, and I used it during the workout, but then on Saturday, I actually took almost the entire day off of my phone.


0:04:42.4 Mike Vacanti: Wow.


0:04:42.4 Jordan Syatt: So I did use it during my workout. I’m not gonna lie, but Saturday, dude, I used it… I barely used it the entire Saturday. And dude, I took like a two hour nap and while my daughter was napping and just like hung out and just was out, it was great. So I did not do what I said I was gonna do, but I did think I made up for it.


0:05:01.4 Mike Vacanti: It sounds like you absolutely did. And was this brewing a little bit because I feel like in the week or two prior to this? I mean, I’m always talking about cell phone usage for myself, but you had mentioned offhand one or two times I’m scrolling too much. There was one time I called you and you answered, and you were in the shower, which is just classic, ’cause…


0:05:24.8 Jordan Syatt: Hadn’t done that in a long time.


0:05:25.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.


0:05:26.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I used to do it all the time. Yeah.


0:05:30.1 Mike Vacanti: But it ebbs and flows for all of us, the amount of scrolling and screen time we’re having. So had that just been something that was creeping up on you a little bit and you’re like okay, I’m gonna do something about this.


0:05:40.1 Jordan Syatt: There’s just something going on with my algorithm where it’s just got me so good right now where it’s just like it’s got me, I’m hooked and where I’ll open it and dude, it is just from the moment I open it, there’s something there that I have to see this and then I just give like a little flick of the thumb, but we gotta see this flick of the thumb. Oh, God. Oh, what are the comments saying? Let’s go in the comments. Oh, wow. Like dude, I get hooked and I’m like this is… And I never put my phone down and say like oh, I feel so much better after looking at all of that stuff. I’m never in a better mood after, so I really… And after barely looking at my phone over the weekend, feel amazing. It was like absolutely fantastic. So very aware of it. And I’m just… I’m really trying to remove myself from it bit by bit.


0:06:34.7 Mike Vacanti: Good for you. I have bad news for you, Jordan, and bad news for everyone listening. Algorithms are only gonna get better and more dialed and more addictive and more. They’re gonna know us and own us even better, so.


0:06:50.7 Jordan Syatt: Soon we’re all gonna be wearing those like VR masks and it’s just never gonna stop. It’s just gonna be like suggested, let’s go watch this post.


0:06:57.1 Mike Vacanti: We’ll see we’ll see. Yeah. Augmented reality.


0:07:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Welcome back to scrolling, though. You return to the scrolling game.


0:07:02.6 Mike Vacanti: I’m back. I’m back in the game.


0:07:07.5 Jordan Syatt: I’m back.


0:07:08.5 Mike Vacanti: I had a night where I would argue that of everyone I’ve ever met in life, I don’t know that I’ve ever met a better sleeper than me in terms of just being great at it, enjoying it, feeling refreshed from it, feeling the downsides of not getting enough.


0:07:22.0 Jordan Syatt: You love sleep.


0:07:26.9 Mike Vacanti: I just… I really feel the effects. And so one night I went to bed 9:30, pretty normal, 10:00 o’clock, maybe, fell asleep and I woke up at 2:00 something, which isn’t completely unusual. Used the bathroom once in a while in the middle of the night. But what was unusual is I couldn’t fall back asleep. And that never happens to me, ever. And so I literally laid there with my eyes closed for 20 or 30 minutes, couldn’t fall back asleep, woke up, grabbed my phone, was like I’m not gonna scroll. Hadn’t been scrolling for a number of weeks. Threw on The Challenge, old season of The Challenge, which is definitely a guilty pleasure. And like watched half an episode of that and had it on real quiet and then rolled back over, laid down for another half hour, couldn’t sleep, and then pulled my phone back up and was just like all right, TikTok, let’s go. And just scrolled. And I never… I was up for the day. And so that was a few days ago that kind of got me back into scrolling. And it has been quite enjoy…


0:08:30.3 Jordan Syatt: How’s it been?


0:08:31.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s been enjoyable. Yeah, a lot of really good entertaining, enjoyable content.


0:08:38.2 Jordan Syatt: Anything that sticks out? Any videos or anything that was like oh man, that was a real classic.


0:08:43.2 Mike Vacanti: No, because I don’t remember anything, it all just… It’s complete, it’s all pleasure and no… Like I’m not learning anything, like we’ve talked about many times. It’s just smashing the pleasure center of my brain with no long-term benefit to being on there scrolling.


0:09:06.0 Jordan Syatt: I like it when you start scrolling because that’s when you’ll start texting me videos. I always know when you’ve been scrolling, ’cause all of a sudden after like weeks or months, I’ll just all of a sudden get a few videos. I’ll be like yes, he’s back.


0:09:22.8 Mike Vacanti: I remember a couple that… I mean, there were some of the college campus protests and then anti-protesters. I got on this random trend of British people reacting to Toby Keith’s Red, White, and Blue. And being like “man, I wish I was an American. This is such a patriotic song.” Random, the Minnesota Timberwolves are in the NBA playoffs in the second round, and there’s this dude Anthony Edwards, who is… I don’t know, has a similar ethos and playing style of a Kobe Bryant or a Michael Jordan and is different than modern NBA players. And he’s on the Timberwolves. I’m getting clips of him doing all this cool stuff. Just random fun, enjoyable things where basically wasting the hours of my life away on my phone scrolling, so.


0:10:13.8 Jordan Syatt: You still watch that YouTube guy by the Minnesota Vikings that you showed me? He got like a… He uploads like everyday or something.


0:10:18.5 Mike Vacanti: We just had the NFL draft not long ago. He was uploading five to 10 times a day. He’s a beast. [laughter] He’s a beast. His name’s Andy. I should shout out his channel. Just for any Vikings fans. If I go to YouTube right now, he will be on my homepage, for sure.


0:10:37.9 Jordan Syatt: How often does he upload? Like what’s a normal upload rate for him? At least once a day.


0:10:42.6 Mike Vacanti: So much more than once a day Jordan, [laughter] three. Well, I’ll look.


0:10:51.5 Jordan Syatt: Does he just like rift? Is it just off the cuff? All right, let’s just talk. Or is it…


0:10:55.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, it’s news. So it depends on the time of year. If it’s in season, there’s a ton to talk about. If coming up to the trade deadline, if they’re making off season roster moves, if they’re preparing for the draft, if they’re in training camp news coming out of training camp. PurpleFTW Podcast is the name of the channel.


0:11:17.0 Jordan Syatt: Purple For the Win podcast. Okay.


0:11:18.7 Mike Vacanti: He uploaded 22 minutes ago. He uploaded two hours ago. He uploaded three hours ago. He uploaded eight hours ago. He uploaded eight hours ago. He uploaded nine hours ago. One day ago. Two days ago. Two days ago. Two days ago. Two days ago. Two days ago. Two days ago. Three days ago. Three days ago. Three days ago. He’s a beast.


0:11:34.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, my God. And these videos, are they like how long?


0:11:37.9 Mike Vacanti: Five minutes 42 seconds, seven minutes 34 seconds, seven minutes 57 seconds, nine minutes, six minutes, 11 minutes, 11 minutes, 11 minutes, 13 minutes, nine minutes, 13 minutes.


0:11:48.2 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. So just quick, quick videos. That’s so funny.


0:11:51.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, he just loves it.


0:11:53.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s super impressive, ’cause it takes a minute to upload a video. Like it’s, nevermind the filming of it, the idea for it and all that, but even just like uploading it, titling it all… It’s not like a quick thing. So good for him.


0:12:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t know what his systems look like. I don’t know if he has anyone helping him. I don’t know what his backend is. He doesn’t monetize hard.


0:12:13.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s amazing. Good for him.


0:12:18.1 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I have a big one.


0:12:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow.


0:12:23.8 Mike Vacanti: So I went to New York, was in the city for three nights. Coaching Gary.


0:12:28.5 Jordan Syatt: Coaching Gary.


0:12:29.0 Mike Vacanti: Getting a few in person workouts in, and just recently we were ripping cities a little bit here on the podcast, or I was ripping cities. We were talking about nature, how nature is so much better, how we don’t ever want to be in cities. The amount of steps that I got being in New York City specifically compared to suburban life is a real benefit to cities. So I want to give cities a little bit of love here on some of the pros that we potentially missed. I felt so good walking around in the city that I pulled up my data on my phone for step count over the years. And it’s not completely accurate, obviously, because I don’t always have my phone on me, but.


0:13:08.3 Jordan Syatt: You don’t wear the watch anymore, [laughter] the watch that I got you? [laughter]


0:13:11.7 Mike Vacanti: You know that I don’t wear the watch anymore. [laughter] Want me to tell that story. [laughter] One time. So basically, Jordan got me this Garmin watch. I wore it for over a year. I loved it. I think it’s really cool, when I get phone calls, the watch buzzes. And so anytime I get a phone call, I see whoever’s calling, and I was spending a few days out of town with the in-laws, holiday trip, hotel like kind of, it was a busy… For an introvert it was a bit of a busy and stressful time. And I had a night where I was really gonna get caught up on sleep and I had like a 9:00 PM to 7:00 AM window where I was gonna get 10 hours of sleep. [laughter] And I just dozed off. I was probably in that you go into 15 to 20 minutes of REM and then you come back up and then you drop down into deep sleep. And it was 15 or 20 minutes after I’d fallen asleep and my wrist starts buzzing, buzz, buzz buzz at 9:20, and I looked Jordan Syatt and I just answered my phone. I’m like hello? You good bro? And you’re like oh shit. You’re like I’m so sorry. [laughter] You knew immediately that I was asleep, right?




0:14:24.2 Mike Vacanti: And wow. It’s so funny that the two stories of me having trouble sleeping are coming out in one podcast, but so you’re like all right, go back to bed. Go back to bed, everything’s good. You were just calling for no reason.


0:14:36.9 Jordan Syatt: Coins.


0:14:37.0 Mike Vacanti: For coins. And so I hang up. And for some reason I couldn’t fall back asleep for two and a half hours. So I was laying in this hotel room bed on a night where I needed a great sleep, [laughter] and then…


0:14:47.7 Jordan Syatt: And then that was it, watch came off. [laughter]


0:14:52.6 Mike Vacanti: And then I took the watch off and I said, I’m never putting this thing back on. [laughter]


0:15:00.5 Jordan Syatt: So anyway, you’re checking your phone for your steps in the city.


0:15:01.2 Mike Vacanti: And basically coaching Gary, my steps were, we’ll just call it x for a number of years. And then in the years when I was living the living in the city, but not coaching Gary anymore, they were still 0.8x. So 80% of what it was coaching Gary and then suburb life was like 0.3x. So getting a third of the steps that I was living in the city coaching Gary, are less than half of the steps that I was just living in the city compared to the suburbs. And that was a real wake up call in terms of just needing to make a lifestyle modification to get more steps on the day-to-day so that I feel better. Just for general health there’s probably something to activity as a way to regulate glycogen spillover, meaning days where you overeat and then feel like crap because you overate, and like feel like crap in the micro after having a huge kind of gluttonous meal.


0:16:09.9 Mike Vacanti: But if you would’ve taken a 30 minute walk after that meal and burnt some of the glycogen, freed up storage for the glycogen, you actually would’ve felt much better, had you just been moving more during the day, even with the higher calories. So it was a wake up call. Being in the city reminded me of how great a city is because oh, I’m gonna run to the store and grab some sushi and some blackberries and oh, I just got 3000 steps from that one little errand versus walking to the fridge and back or getting in the car to go to a store rather than walking to a store. Giving cities some love back.


0:16:45.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yep. I didn’t like it as much, ’cause when we would talk, you’d be out walking and I would just hear like that…




0:16:54.7 Jordan Syatt: Just like city noise. And I remember when I…


0:16:55.2 Mike Vacanti: Some of them are construction.


0:16:58.8 Jordan Syatt: When I lived in Israel before I moved to New York for Gary, like I’d be on the beach or I would take calls outside when I’m walking, whatever. And I just assumed I’d be able to do the same thing in New York City. So my first like I don’t know, two weeks in New York City, I’m trying to take business calls as I’m walking. And I very quickly realized I would no longer be able to do business calls walking around the city. There’s just nowhere I could go where it just wasn’t unbelievably loud at all times. Sirens going crazy. So definitely big step guy. But man, I feel like that stress response, at least for me, like I need time away from the city, still. I don’t wanna go back to the city anytime soon.


0:17:42.4 Mike Vacanti: The cons certainly outweigh the pros. I’m not saying that I want to go back to a city, but I’m saying…


0:17:49.8 Jordan Syatt: Just a little city love.


0:17:50.0 Mike Vacanti: I just wanted to give ’em a little love for what they do have, which is unbelievable… Well, New York City, specifically, unbelievable cuisine and a lifestyle that gets you a lot of steps, which is great for health and body comp and feeling good.


0:18:07.2 Jordan Syatt: New York City’s got…


0:18:07.3 Mike Vacanti: And blood flow.


0:18:08.8 Jordan Syatt: Arguably the best food in the world. This is incredible.


0:18:11.2 Mike Vacanti: One thing I did notice you brought up vapes because on the Instagram page where Jordan has been dominating at Personal Trainer podcast, there was a recent clip of me talking about a friend who was vaping incessantly. That was something I noticed. Being in the city was an astonishing number of people just inhaling what I presumed to be nicotine.


0:18:36.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s so bad for you.


0:18:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Constantly and such a high percentage of people and young people.


0:18:39.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s really, I think over the next five to 20 years, we’re gonna see insane, insane increases in incidences of lung cancers and throat cancers. I mean, even cardiovascular events, just people for… Like younger people dying from this type of, it is, I don’t know if they think it’s healthier or not. It was funny. The first time I had seen enough people vaping, it was actually, wow, it was almost exactly a year ago. ‘Cause I gave this presentation in Manchester, UK, almost a year ago. I had seen a lot of people vaping. I didn’t really know what it was, though. And dude, when I tell you everybody at this event was vaping in Manchester, UK, like thousands and thousands of people.


0:19:24.7 Jordan Syatt: And then outside the event, the hundreds of people at a time, just vaping, all of them. And I went up to this dude who, he looked like the coolest dude there. He was just like chill, tattooed, just like hanging out, vaping by himself. And I went up to him. I was like, dude, this, I’m not being an asshole, what is that? Like, can you just tell me what that is? And he was like, in his British accent, it’s a vape. And I was like, so is it smoke? Is it like, he’s like, yeah, no, it’s still smoke. I was like, is it healthy for you? He’s like, absolutely not. He’s like, it is not. He’s like, it’s terrible for you. It’s just straight nicotine without like the other stuff, but it’s still smoke. It’s still terrible for you. Do not do it.


0:20:03.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s highly addictive. I really, really encourage you not to do it. And I was like, cool, I love the objectivity here but, yeah, it’s, I’ve looked into a little bit more like it’s super dangerous and like it’s partly so dangerous because often people will think that it’s healthier because it doesn’t have the other chemicals that are in like cigarettes and stuff, but they’re still inhaling this smoke into their lungs. And they do it often way more frequently. Like you said in the video I posted, the clip I posted on, it’s like, you said he was doing it from the moment, he wakes up to the moment he goes to bed. It’s like, they just don’t stop. They do it over and over and over and over again, all day. It’s like the amount, the total volume that they’re putting into their body is way worse than a lot of people with cigarettes.


0:20:48.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, there’s that, thinking that it’s healthier and therefore doing it more, but it’s also the delivery device. A lot of these are watermelon flavored and grape flavored nicotine, which means that it’s not just nicotine. There’s some kind of flavoring in there. The filters that are used and where like the physical vapes are being created in different countries that have fewer regulations around them. I’m not an expert in any of this, but I’m kind of parodying a little bit of what I read when I was more into it 12 to 18 months ago into learning about it.


0:21:31.4 Jordan Syatt: You don’t have to start a fire to do it. You can just suck on it. Like there’s no…


0:21:34.5 Mike Vacanti: Convenient.


0:21:35.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s it. Super convenient. Yeah.


0:21:39.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Terrible. I mean, even if it was the exact same thing as a Zyn or as a oral nicotine pouch.


0:21:48.0 Jordan Syatt: A pouch. Yeah.


0:21:48.0 Mike Vacanti: And so there aren’t the additional side effects of whatever other chemicals are in the vape, it’s still just messing with your dopamine system, right? It’s still this addictive thing that you are throwing into your life, essentially. The same way that people use all kinds of other dopaminergic substances or highly palatable foods or a much lesser version of that.


0:22:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, my main concern is the smoke that they’re just inhaling in huge quantities. It’s super scary. Very, very scary to see that.


0:22:29.6 Mike Vacanti: I would be curious on if you matched the nicotine, because people who… A lot of people who I know who use oral nicotine are not using it responsibly. Like they’re housing 90 milligrams a day, they make these pouches…


0:22:47.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, my gosh, 90 milligrams?


0:22:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Used to be three milligrams. These pouches are 12 or 15 milligrams.


0:22:52.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, my gosh.


0:22:53.4 Mike Vacanti: And they’re doing double horseshoes, upper, lower horseshoes in multiple times a day, like buying them by the log.


0:23:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh… Dear Lord.


0:23:01.6 Mike Vacanti: I would be curious to know what the long-term negative effects are holding the amount of nicotine consistent on inhaling versus a pouch.


0:23:13.1 Jordan Syatt: I also wonder like how much it really screws with like, if they don’t have it mentally, emotionally, physically, how it impacts them. Just like if they are, you don’t have that…


0:23:22.4 Mike Vacanti: And tap insane withdrawals.


0:23:23.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude. Yeah.


0:23:25.5 Mike Vacanti: Nicotine’s unbelievably addictive.


0:23:27.4 Jordan Syatt: Not good.


0:23:28.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Question here from Lydia. Lydia says, “hello, I would like to ask a question for the podcast. Do you think it’s necessary to use social media to build a fitness business in today’s world?”


0:23:42.6 Jordan Syatt: No. No, I do not. I’ve spoken about it many, many times in terms of your website, I think would be plenty. You could use your website. You could use an email list. I think a combination of those two would be absolutely fine. It’s definitely not the fastest way. Like I think social media is gonna be the fastest way to at least get your business off the ground, to get noticed in the quickest way possible to get more clients. I think that is a way more efficient way, especially in the beginning. But I think the longer term, actually more efficient way would be website articles with an email list would be probably the most efficient long term strategy from an SEO perspective, business perspective. And that’s not to say social media wouldn’t help.


0:24:37.9 Jordan Syatt: I think both are better than either alone, but you don’t need social media. To give some perspective, I think, especially in today’s climate, if you were gonna start a website today and start writing one article a week every week, and that was all you were doing was just your article. And then you had your email list. I would say it would probably take between four to 10 years, I think, to build a sustainable sole income just from that, anywhere in that four to 10 year range, four on the low end, 10 on the high end, as long as you’re super consistent with it, just from your website and email list. There are obviously outliers who might be able to do it in six to 24 months, especially if you have a background in search engine optimization and you understand how that works and you understand sales copy and you understand systems and how to do it.


0:25:35.4 Jordan Syatt: If you already understand that stuff, but assuming you’re starting out complete beginner, you don’t have an, have a background in search engine optimization. You don’t have a background in website development, format, editing, any of this stuff. Like I would say four to 10 years, if you were to solely use your website. The good news is I think that once you established it, you’d be better off for literally the rest of your career, for your entire life. Whereas if you solely did it on social media, you’d probably build it much more quickly, but you would be beholden to social media, you would not be able to just stop posting on social media, eventually, you would have to build it on the website. So either way, it’s gonna take a long time. But, and I think doing both is better than either alone. But that’s a realistic perspective and look at, I think, what do you think?


0:26:21.5 Mike Vacanti: If it’s four to 10 years for just website and email list, where do you place just to give listeners the… Something to compare it to? Where would you place that time range for doing everything? Meaning you’re posting on social media and you have a website and you’re building an email list.


0:26:39.8 Jordan Syatt: I think to build up to a point in which you have a sustainable efficient coaching program online. If you’re doing everything that could be within one to four years, in terms of if you’re doing both, but I think if you want to really, if you, let’s say you want to eventually pull away from social media, then I think you would need a little bit longer to really focus just on your website stuff. But if you’re doing everything at once within one to four years, anywhere in that one to four year timeframe, you could build a, we’ll call it a very very reputable, very efficient, very successful online coaching business that supports you and your family and helps people all over the world. And that is your sole career, your sole income within that one to four year timeframe, as long as you’re using both.


0:27:36.8 Mike Vacanti: Cool. Yeah. That’s what I was thinking. One to five, is kind of the range, depending on who you are, how much time you have to be dedicating to building that business, what your circumstances are, whether or not you have a full-time job and you’re building on the side. Yeah. I think you answered it perfectly, which is, yes, you can build a business, an online fitness business in today’s day and age without social media, but it is going to take longer. It’s gonna take more time. If we think about what we’re doing on social media, we’re, what you are doing on social media, I’m not doing anything on social media. If you think about what people who are building businesses are doing on social media, we’re going to places where people are paying attention and we are grabbing some of that attention by helping them, educating them, entertaining them, inspiring them, some combination of these things.


0:28:30.8 Mike Vacanti: And then with that attention and goodwill and trust that we’re building, we have an opportunity to sell a product or service, right? It’s, posting on social media is the marketing arm of a business. And it’s a free marketing arm, meaning you’re not paying money. You’re paying in your time to get people’s attention. You could, like, you can put money in and sponsor posts, etcetera, and get more reach that way where you can run advertisements. But it’s sweat equity that you’re investing, your time, your energy, your effort to build brand to then have the opportunity to sell. So can you do that without posting on social media? Absolutely. I mean, technically you can do it without being on the internet at all. You could do it with no website and you could do it with no email list and you could do it not posting on social media, but it’s gonna take a lot longer, right?


0:29:30.8 Mike Vacanti: There’s guerrilla marketing. You could buy a billboard. You can go volunteer at a gym. You can go meet people in a gym. You can go build your network at various events. There are ways to build business not online. They’re just way less efficient and effective. And so for someone who, let’s say, wanted to build an online fitness business, but doesn’t like social media. Yes, you can just focus on website plus email list. But I think what’s better advice is, doing something that you don’t like, which is spending some time building on social media, spending more time building email plus website, but still having at least some social presence for a period of time until you’re in a place where you’re good enough not to have to be posting on social consistently. And at that point, focusing exclusively on website plus email list or website plus email list plus podcast or some combination of long form content that doesn’t have you in that… On a platform where you really don’t enjoy being there.


0:30:49.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, completely agree.


0:30:51.6 Mike Vacanti: You wanna fire up a question?


0:30:54.6 Jordan Syatt: Remember, was it last podcast where I said, I need to lose like three pounds and you were like seven pounds? Was that the last one or the two ago?


0:31:03.1 Mike Vacanti: It was more than one ago. It might’ve been two or three ago, but let me just give a little context. If you weren’t listening then. Jordan had said…


0:31:11.6 Jordan Syatt: I hope they were listening, that was one of the funniest things that’s ever happened on the pod.


0:31:16.3 Mike Vacanti: You had told me that you weighed 155 off air and that you were focused on doing a muscle up and that if you were 10 pounds lighter, it’d be way easier to do a muscle up and I know your range is 145 to 155. So on the pod when you’re… Said you needed to lose some weight, I assumed you meant 10 pounds, but I was going charitable I was like single digit. And I said like nine at the same time you go like three.


0:31:40.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you said nine.


0:31:45.8 Mike Vacanti: But yes. Why, did someone say something about it?


0:31:48.9 Jordan Syatt: Someone. Yeah. Someone did say something about it yesterday. I’m sitting on my couch with my daughter and she just like points at my stomach and she goes, baby.




0:32:00.8 Mike Vacanti: No. What?


0:32:01.6 Jordan Syatt: Which to be fair, so we’ve been telling her that her sister is in my wife’s belly. And so we say, there’s a baby in there, and like my daughter like she knows like some words. Like she knows individual words, she doesn’t know sentences or concepts, like I don’t think she understands that there’s a real baby inside of my wife’s belly. But so then like my daughter will point at her own belly and she’ll be like baby. And then she’ll point at my belly and be like, baby. And so like, she did that to me for the first time yesterday and I was lying down and she just points at my stomach and goes, baby. And I was like, Oh, God. Okay. I really got to lose some weight.


0:32:43.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s good. That’s very funny.


0:32:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. She also, I think one of the funniest things I’ve ever experienced is, she will call any child, any child, we’ll call it from a actual infant up until, I don’t know, 16 years old, she’ll call them all baby. So like when we’re walking outside, if there are kids playing, she’ll point at them and she’ll be like, baby, baby. And she’ll say it over and over. And like these 12 year olds get pissed. They get so mad.


0:33:24.1 Mike Vacanti: They don’t like it.


0:33:25.8 Jordan Syatt: They’re like, I’m not a baby. I’m not a baby. You’re a baby. And we’re like, no, no, she just calls every, she calls everyone baby. These 12 year olds get like really upset that this little girl is calling a baby.


0:33:35.9 Mike Vacanti: I think they need to figure it out a little bit. Got some anger issues. They should redirect that anger into some greatness.


0:33:43.8 Jordan Syatt: Hopefully, they will.


0:33:45.2 Mike Vacanti: Next time that happens, give them that lesson. Be like, guys, come here. I’m gonna sit you down and teach you something about that anger.


0:33:50.1 Jordan Syatt: What do you want me to say?


0:33:52.2 Mike Vacanti: Just tell them your life story.


0:33:52.3 Jordan Syatt: You guys need to start lifting.


0:33:53.7 Mike Vacanti: Send them Henry Rollins or send them the Henry Rollins episode we did and then tell them to lift for two years and not look in the mirror.


0:34:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Don’t look in the mirror. Yeah, just lift.


0:34:01.8 Mike Vacanti: Wear sweatshirts the whole time. Yeah. That’s where they should start.


0:34:06.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay. So here’s a question. I’m actually, I’m interested in taking this a slightly different direction than potentially what they meant. I actually think this would be really cool. Hopefully, you’ll like this question. So this person said, what are the best resources to get started on fitness/nutrition journey if I’m overweight? And so I’m thinking outside of resources, like are there any products that you would recommend? And it could be a resource, maybe an app like Mike’s Macros. But is there something, what would your top resources be? Whether it be adjustable dumbbells, Mike’s Macros, a gym member… And let’s just assume cost is not a factor. It’s not about like, okay, money, even though obviously it is a factor for the vast majority of people, but let’s just say money’s not an issue. What are your top resources? And they don’t even have to cost money if they, if there are free resources, great. What would you recommend?


0:35:08.0 Mike Vacanti: You’re gonna hate the way that I answer this. I think that the type of person who’s asking about resources for losing weight is the type of person who doesn’t need any resources and that their focus should be on action rather than on education.


0:35:28.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:35:28.7 Mike Vacanti: I think most people know enough to start making positive habit changes and we can talk about resources, but first I just think there’s a phenomenon that exists in business, that exists in fitness, that exists in all areas of life, which is procrastination via planning. So rather than doing this hard thing, or rather than doing this scary thing, rather than launching my website, I’m gonna research and research and research what the best possible website name is. I’m gonna spend so much time researching what the best possible company name is before I actually name my company. Start and then adjust, is a much better strategy. So rather than think about resources, I would either, one, focus on hitting x number of steps per day, or two, focus on keeping my calories within a range of x to x plus 500 and do that for a week before any kind of… That is a better place to start than any form of studying or learning. Now, if we want to say…


0:36:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I don’t hate that answer. I love that answer.


0:36:46.3 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:36:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Don’t put that on me. I think it’s a great answer. Now let’s move on. Now let’s go resources.


0:36:52.9 Mike Vacanti: So my resources are not gonna be educational because the how-to of weight loss, the Xs and Os are pretty straightforward. I think I am, I’m gonna take money into consideration because that’s just how life is.


0:37:10.5 Jordan Syatt: You’re the money guy. Yeah.


0:37:12.2 Mike Vacanti: No, ’cause I’m ISTJ, because blood is red, because anyone who’s listening who wants to get value from this, if I’m like, yeah, go get a personal trainer to come to your house every single day and pay them a massive salary and have them follow you around and not…


0:37:23.8 Jordan Syatt: Well, obviously not that.


0:37:24.9 Mike Vacanti: You said money’s not an issue, huh? I’m just saying, Jordan.


0:37:25.4 Jordan Syatt: You’re right. I shouldn’t have said that. I should have been more clear. Yeah. Anyway, let’s just…


0:37:34.6 Mike Vacanti: I would get a Planet Fitness membership for $10 a month.


0:37:35.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay.


0:37:35.4 Mike Vacanti: $10 a month and that is the first product/service/thing before setting up a home gym. I think there’s… Home gyms are awesome and have a lot of benefit around saving time. I do think having a dedicated space for fitness and having the routine and the ritual of getting in the car, driving somewhere knowing that that’s where you’re going to do the thing. I think there’s some benefit to that. There are going to be some people who maybe have some emotional issues, maybe have a lot of body image issues, have a great deal of insecurity where starting at home or maybe a walking pad at home or a treadmill… Not one of those $20,000 Woodwind treadmills or whatever but a normal treadmill at home.


0:38:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Woodwind… [laughter]


0:38:32.2 Mike Vacanti: What’s the brand?


0:38:32.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s like when my mom called the Xbox, the X Play.


0:38:36.0 Mike Vacanti: What’s the brand?


0:38:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Woodway.


0:38:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Hey, not far off.


0:38:41.3 Jordan Syatt: “Get off your X Play box.” [laughter]


0:38:47.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. A low cost gym membership would be the first thing if we’re investing in a product or service.


0:39:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Or also free, let’s say this person is… They’re ready but there’s so many different… They don’t know how many calories ’cause you had said, all right, set your calories between x and x plus 500. Mike’s Macros, free, tells you how many calories to have, so I think that’s another worthwhile resource to have. It’s free. I think the vast majority of their resources that would be available are… The vast majority are free. I just think the vast majority, especially now are free compared to what they used to be or very low cost. I completely agree that most people are procrastinating by planning and I think what you said in terms of just do that for a week. Just hit those calories and hit those steps for a week. I think it’s so important. And I would just take it one step further and say, not just do it for a week, but do it meticulously. Do it perfectly for a week. Spend every second that you would otherwise spend researching, that you would otherwise spend trying to find resources, that you would otherwise spend trying to plan. Spend every waking moment trying to hit that precisely.


0:40:13.2 Jordan Syatt: Your steps and your calories for that whole week. That is, be so over the top meticulous with it because through that you’ll learn so much. You will learn more about calories, you’ll learn more about protein, you’ll learn more about carbs. You’ll learn more about fat, you’ll learn more about fiber, you’ll learn more about how steps make you feel. Be over… And there should not be one instance throughout that week of trying that you don’t hit that goal. Just every day. Every day for that one week, do it. Period. You will learn an unbelievable amount and you’ll realize that it will work, just as long as you do it, and it’s not a week where you say well, I’ll try it. It’s not a try. It’s just… You do it. You make a decision, it will be done. Period. It’s one of those things. I’ve learned that when… Not even just people… If I am saying I’m going to try and do this, I’m already giving myself an out. As soon as I say I’m trying and I catch myself doing this, I know it. When I say I’m going to try, it’s not okay. Well, I’m giving myself an excuse to no longer do it. I mean, it’s either just do it. I’m not saying do it for a month or do it for a year or do it for the rest of your life, just for one week. Do it. Don’t try, do it.


0:41:36.9 Mike Vacanti: I love that you said do it meticulously and do it. I completely agree with that do not try. Either do or do not. 100%, but I especially like the be obsessive, be meticulous. Do it 100% correctly for a week, because you’re going to save yourself from future mistakes. You might be thinking oh, I have to be this perfect all the time. No, you don’t have to be this perfect all the time. But being this perfect for a week means that seven months from now when you never bothered to learn that restaurants use an obscene amount of butter and oil in a lot of their foods, and you’ve actually been consuming an extra 350 calories every single time you ate out…


0:42:15.1 Jordan Syatt: Easy.


0:42:16.0 Mike Vacanti: Over the course of seven months, right? If you would’ve been meticulous and obsessive during that one week and been like excuse me, what kind of oil is this cooked in? Or is this cooked in butter, and really started to drill down and read a few articles about the subject, you’re going to save yourself so much work and so much time and lack of progress over the long run. Do I weigh my foods raw or cooked, like getting out a food scale and realizing like oh, I can get more volume of strawberries for only 100 calories compared to 100 calories of mango, is a little bit less food, compared to 100 calories of dried fruit is almost nothing, and really starting to… By doing it obsessively, you’re just going to learn an insane amount and that’s a perfect example of taking action first. So deciding I’m going to do this for a week and then doing research on what you’re doing. So Googling, asking someone questions, doing things allows you to learn more effectively than just reading about the thing.


0:43:27.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I just made this up in my head but I was thinking, one of the best learning tools or learning experiences someone can have is going to the grocery store and trying to find foods that are lower calorie, higher protein, higher fiber options. So actively go out of your way. Go to the grocery store. You don’t even need to buy anything. Just go there and actively try and find the foods that are lower calorie, higher protein, lower calorie, higher fiber. It doesn’t have to be all in one. Just find lower calorie, high protein and then find lower calorie, high fiber. Just try and find those foods. Man, the amount that you learn. It’s crazy how much that we have available to us nowadays in grocery stores but go to the frozen food section and find which options are… Look at the Ben & Jerry’s versus the Halo Top. Look at… Immediately you’re going to be like holy shit, this is amazing. And then you’ll be like, okay, cool. So I could either have the whole pint of Halo Top for this, or you know what? I would rather have the regular Ben & Jerry’s but only have this amount. You get to decide which one is better for you, but you’ll learn a huge amount just by doing this.


0:44:36.6 Jordan Syatt: Whereas you might see both of those and think oh, they must be equal, and then you end up eating the whole Ben & Jerry’s when the reality is well, if you’re going to eat the whole thing probably better for you to just get the Halo Top, but if you have more self-control, you want to have the higher calorie option, get the Ben & Jerry’s that’s totally fine. Or adjust your calories later in the day, you find these tortillas, you find the beans, you find the strawberries. You Google, all right how many calories are on a watermelon? Oh, my God. A whole pound of watermelon only has 145 calories. Spend an hour, two hours, three hours. Go to the grocery store and I would say, try and find 50 low calorie, high proteinlow calorie, high fiber options. Try and find 50 of them that you would enjoy. Go through every aisle, every… Just an hour, two hours, three hours try and find 50. Don’t leave until you find 50. Do a scavenger hunt. You’ve got to find 50 of them. The amount that you would learn in that timeframe is invaluable.


0:45:35.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I don’t know if there are 50. We might have to set the number at 25.


0:45:38.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. That’s a good point. Well, I mean… Yeah, that’s true. Or have different categories we’ll have. So low calorie filling, low calorie high fiber, low calorie high protein.


0:45:52.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And in totality get the 50.


0:45:57.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not like… Yeah.


0:46:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I love that exercise.


0:46:01.4 Jordan Syatt: I think that’d be good.


0:46:01.7 Mike Vacanti: Could pay massive dividends. Could be the turning point for someone literally in your life, in your health.


0:46:06.5 Jordan Syatt: In your family’s health, you start filling your kitchen up with good stuff. Just the whole family starts eating better, feeling better. That’s a major thing, is people are like how do I get my family to eat better? Start filling up your kitchen with better stuff. The number of times I’ve had people tell me oh yeah, my family doesn’t eat what I eat. It’s like, who’s buying the other food? I am. Well stop fucking buying the other food. Stop putting it in your kitchen.


0:46:38.7 Mike Vacanti: Yep, 100%. And helping… That’s a great point that you make is by changing the foods that are available in your kitchen to improve your family’s health, improving your own health, if you haven’t had kids yet, and improving your own epigenetics will have a positive impact on your offspring. That’s another way to think about it. By being an exemplar of better and healthier habits and behaviors, you’re going to be a better leader. And show an example for what behaviors to model. Yeah. It’s not just you. Throw a pebble in a pond and the ripple goes out infinitely.


0:47:22.0 Jordan Syatt: The whole pond.


0:47:23.0 Mike Vacanti: Big pebble, whole pond.


0:47:25.6 Jordan Syatt: Tiny pebble makes a big ripple. Right?


0:47:31.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s true. It’s like a fortune. It’s like a fortune cookie. Okay. Mentorship sale ends in one week. May 21st get in before then. Apply if you haven’t already. Thank you for listening. We’ll be back next Tuesday because these are weekly uploads of the How to Become a Personal Trainer podcast. Have a good one. Get after it. See you soon.


0:47:47.9 Jordan Syatt: See you.

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