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In this episode, we talk about how Mike almost got in a fight with a group of Dagestani fighters at UFC 302. We also dive into EMFs, fat-loss strategies, child-rearing nutrition, and more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at


Thank you!

-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:12.9 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.9 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:14.1 Mike Vacanti: What do you think of EMFs?


0:00:14.4 Jordan Syatt: Electromagnetic Fields?


0:00:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Yes.


0:00:20.5 Jordan Syatt: Well, I’ll tell you what, before we even get into EMFs, if you enjoy the podcast, please leave a 5-star review. It would mean the world to us. They’re super helpful especially the written ones, whether you’re listening on Spotify or iTunes. They help the show a lot. Now we can get back to EMFs. How’s that J? How’s that for a J there, Michael?


0:00:37.7 Mike Vacanti: That was strong. That was a strong little right hook. Little pitch-ish. Thank you. We do appreciate all the reviews very, very much. But more importantly.


0:00:45.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude I can’t think of another topic that I know less about.


0:00:50.6 Mike Vacanti: Same. That’s actually what I wanted to say.


0:00:53.5 Jordan Syatt: I don’t even know why I knew what EMF was. I’m shocked that I even had the wherewithal to know what that acronym meant.


0:01:00.9 Mike Vacanti: I think I know 0.04% more than the average person. So essentially nothing. All that I know is these like schizo, right-wing Twitter like people who are like six months to three years early on all their conspiracy theories talk about EMFs a lot. And I think I’m gonna do a little bit of research is my game plan. But as of right now, what I know is that smart established people say that something like AirPods or something like WiFi or cell phone do emit EMFs and do emit radiation, but at such a low volume that it can’t be a carcinogen, that it can’t negatively impact us in any way. Whereas things that emit EMFs at a higher, I don’t know the right verbiage, higher frequency, higher volume, whatever it is, more of them can be damaging for us. Like an X-ray, for example. If you were to get, I don’t know, multiple X-rays every single day, your whole life, that could add up. Again, I know nothing, but it’s a rabbit hole that I think I want to go down.


0:02:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Man, that’s definitely not a rabbit hole I wanna go down. That is for sure.


0:02:16.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m definitely gonna bring you down the rabbit hole with me.


0:02:19.9 Jordan Syatt: No.


0:02:20.3 Mike Vacanti: Depending on what I find.


0:02:22.9 Jordan Syatt: You know what is really disappointing. I saw… It’s disappointing…


0:02:26.6 Mike Vacanti: Hang on, hang on. You’re not gonna let me drag you down this rabbit hole?


0:02:27.0 Jordan Syatt: Hold on. I’m going down this rabbit hole with you right now, but I’m not gonna be sunk down further before I explain this. It sucks because I saw Paul Saladino, “Carnivore Code” dude, making content on this and saying how bad AirPods are for you because of it. And…


0:02:49.6 Mike Vacanti: Don’t be emotional.


0:02:50.7 Jordan Syatt: Hold on. Listen, listen, I’m saying what’s sad…


0:02:53.9 Mike Vacanti: I already know where you’re going.


0:02:54.5 Jordan Syatt: I’m saying what’s sad is that even if it turned out to be right, which I don’t think it is, I still would have a lot of issues trusting it, just because I’ve already seen that dude talking about it and about it. And he just used so much nonsense.


0:03:08.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, that’s a problem.


0:03:09.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, obviously it’s a problem.


0:03:11.3 Mike Vacanti: What if…


0:03:12.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s why I said it’s sad. But I mean.


0:03:17.1 Mike Vacanti: What if he came out and he was like energy balance matters for weight management. Would you be like no, no, calories don’t matter. Paul Saladino.


0:03:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Of course not. I’d be like oh, this guy finally decided to tell the truth.


0:03:29.4 Mike Vacanti: Do you think that’s a good reason to discount?


0:03:31.8 Jordan Syatt: No, of course it’s not a good reason. It’s like the literal worst reason. It’s like the least stoic, least philosophically accurate, least genuine. It’s like it’s all terrible things. It’s like the worst thing that you could do in terms of from a genuine… For trying to look at it from a logical perspective. It’s like one of the worst things that you can do. So no, obviously, but fuck that. I just don’t… I don’t like…


0:03:56.9 Mike Vacanti: I agree.


0:04:01.4 Jordan Syatt: The fact that he’s talking about it makes me want to not talk about it at all. [laughter] Like the fact that this guy’s making content on it. The good news is in the comment section, people were like dude, you’re an idiot. [laughter]


0:04:17.9 Mike Vacanti: Why is that good news though? What if he’s right?


0:04:22.7 Jordan Syatt: You know what? Listen, if he’s right, then they’re wrong, including myself, but I’m just like very anti-him right now.


0:04:30.0 Mike Vacanti: You first told me you don’t know anything about the subject, but then you told me it was good that people disagreed with him in his comments.


0:04:37.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I was just happy to see in general, his comments are full of people who are like dude, you don’t know what you’re talking about in general, like whether it’s carnivore stuff or whatever. It was good to see.


0:04:51.6 Mike Vacanti: So if he’s right about this thing and people disagree with him, it’s a good thing because you just don’t like him.


0:04:54.6 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no. If he’s right about this one, like I said, then I’m totally fine with him being right about this one. It’s just he’s done so much stuff that’s not right and not accurate that obviously my walls come up even higher as soon as I hear him talking about something because he makes up so much other stuff. So as soon as I hear it, my walls come up even higher, defense systems go on even more defense, even greater defense systems.


0:05:22.8 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.


0:05:23.8 Jordan Syatt: But if he’s right, then great. I won’t hold it against him just because it’s him, but I would like to.


0:05:29.4 Mike Vacanti: I think we should strive to evaluate the evidence rather than the messenger. I think that would be a good standard.


0:05:36.1 Jordan Syatt: I think that you’re right and you’re a better person than I am, so I need to get on that level.


0:05:40.8 Mike Vacanti: All right, we’re moving on to a new topic. [laughter] This was way less fun than I thought it would be. All right, Jordan, how’s your nutrition been?




0:05:48.6 Jordan Syatt: I’m starting a cut today, starting a fat loss today, fat loss phase today. So.


0:05:55.8 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. How come?


0:05:56.7 Jordan Syatt: I just got fatter than I wanted.


0:05:58.5 Mike Vacanti: What was the top weight you saw on the scale?


0:06:02.1 Jordan Syatt: 159.


0:06:02.2 Mike Vacanti: And the range you like to be is like mid 140s to like mid to upper 150s kinda.


0:06:05.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. 148 to 152 is my good range. That’s like the happy medium range. The lower end is like 143, that’s like the lower end and 155 is usually the upper end. But I’ve just been like nah, fuck it. [laughter] I just really haven’t been caring at all.


0:06:27.6 Mike Vacanti: What’s the goal of the cut?


0:06:29.3 Jordan Syatt: Lose fat.


0:06:35.1 Mike Vacanti: Do you have an amount in mind or do you have a duration of the cut that you’re gonna do?


0:06:38.1 Jordan Syatt: No, I just want to be… No, it’s literally just get to probably minimum of 148, minimum 148. Tracking. Already started tracking, just started tracking my breakfast. Dude. Breakfast is fiber king man, fiber king, dude, check this out. 48 grams of fiber, 41 grams of protein, 532 calories. I mean, come on.


0:07:06.1 Mike Vacanti: What did you eat?


0:07:07.8 Jordan Syatt: I had my Bran Buds, right? So I had my Bran Buds. I had some blueberries, I had some Zen Basil Seeds. I had two Triple Zero Greek yogurts.


0:07:21.3 Mike Vacanti: Nice.


0:07:21.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I haven’t been hungry in a long time. [laughter] You know what I mean? Like I just haven’t been hungry at all. Anytime there’s even a hint, I’m like “ah, I’ll just go get a snack.” You know? I just need to get hungry again, just a little bit.


0:07:35.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s good. That’s a good thing. Not just from like a physical perspective and a health perspective, but I think there’s something like spiritual/right about taming that impulse.


0:07:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:07:53.7 Mike Vacanti: Because I’m in the same boat. For the last five weeks, I’ve been in a small surplus. I haven’t really been hungry either, and my food quality hasn’t been the greatest. And when I’m hungry, I just eat. There’s something definitely net good about having some restraint, at least for periods of time on that front.


0:08:11.4 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t know you were in a surplus. Did I know that? I thought you were in a deficit.


0:08:14.6 Mike Vacanti: Why would I be in a deficit?


0:08:16.4 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know. I don’t know. I thought that. Are you in like a, just a mild surplus, like a couple of 100 calories?


0:08:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Depends on the day. I would say overall, yes. On average probably 300 to 500. So like a reasonable surplus.


0:08:34.9 Jordan Syatt: And you’ve been feeling good? Lifts have been feeling good?


0:08:35.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I mean, that’s the best part. Training sessions feel incredible.


0:08:39.2 Jordan Syatt: Just putting those carbs to get… What’s your main pre-workout carb right now?


0:08:45.3 Mike Vacanti: I mix it up. A couple of packets of maple brown sugar oatmeal with a banana and potentially some blueberries in there.


0:08:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Protein too?


0:08:53.8 Mike Vacanti: Jordan… Come on.


0:08:54.7 Jordan Syatt: I mean, I’m just checking. I didn’t know if you…


0:08:56.8 Mike Vacanti: You asked what my… You said “what’s my pre-workout carb?” I was telling you the carb sources.


0:09:00.4 Jordan Syatt: I know, I know. Just checking. Just making sure you’re not going down that like EMF anti-protein wave. [laughter]


0:09:09.4 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I can’t believe you let your dislike of an individual cloud you from the actual issue at hand. That’s very unlike you actually.


0:09:17.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it is. Yeah.


0:09:18.2 Mike Vacanti: Has he been popping up on your feed a lot?


0:09:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean, even if it’s not his page, people repost his stuff all the time. So yeah, I see him all the time.


0:09:26.7 Mike Vacanti: People that you see repost his stuff, hating on him.


0:09:31.2 Jordan Syatt: Sometimes. Other times, like he’s just on my Explore feed. People just showing up from different podcasts or interviews, anything like that.


0:09:41.2 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. You’re getting more fitness back in your content consumption.


0:09:44.0 Jordan Syatt: You know why? Ever since I’ve gotten really into mobility and I’ve been… I only do ju-jitsu two times a week right now. Like my whole feed is mobility and obviously… There’s always been some fitness.


0:09:58.0 Mike Vacanti: Is he a big…


0:10:00.7 Jordan Syatt: But like.


0:10:01.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, okay.


0:10:01.2 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s mainly mobility, but there’s like nutrition as well.


0:10:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Not as much like comedy type stuff.


0:10:07.8 Jordan Syatt: Unfortunately, not as much. No. Oh, I can’t believe. You know how you have the thing… I’m gonna show you this. You know how you found the thing on Instagram where you tap Instagram and you can just say like Hey, go to the people that you follow?


0:10:20.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:10:22.6 Jordan Syatt: Well, and you have to do it every time you go on.


0:10:24.5 Mike Vacanti: Oh, you found a way to make it permanent.


0:10:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. There’s a way to make it permanent, but Instagram is so smart. It’s only for 30 days at a time, which is better than having to do it every time. But you go into your settings and you scroll all the way down to… Scroll all the way down to ‘content preferences’. And then there’s a button that says ‘snooze suggested posts and feed’, and it says, ‘suggested posts are hidden in feed for…’ Oh, that’s cool. It’s counting down. So 27 more days, so at the end of that month you have to go in and click it again. But it’s actually been really helpful for me for not really scrolling as much. It’s been wonderful. I don’t get suggested posts.


0:11:09.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s amazing.


0:11:09.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s been great.


0:11:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I need to do that. Although I don’t really scroll Instagram, but a YouTube shorts or a whatever TikTok’s version of that is, which I don’t think exists.


0:11:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Twitter.


0:11:22.1 Mike Vacanti: I mean, Twitter just has a following, but my following on Twitter is [laughter] It’s like watching paint dry compared to the Explore page of like [laughter] wow what isn’t there, you know?


0:11:36.1 Jordan Syatt: I would love to know how… I don’t spend any time on that.


0:11:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Eddie Hall. You know who that guy is?


0:11:38.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, of course.


0:11:40.9 Mike Vacanti: He’s like in a two-on-one fight.


0:11:41.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. I’d seen him knock out those two dudes.


0:11:41.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Stuff like that.


0:11:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that was crazy.


0:11:44.5 Mike Vacanti: Or like gas station footage. Probably one in 10 posts on my Twitter for you is like the surveillance camera of a gas station. And then there was either a shootout or like a four on four fist fight, or like some things just go down at gas stations.


0:12:00.0 Jordan Syatt: As soon as you see a gas station you know you’re about to see something sick. Like it’s gonna be nuts.


0:12:04.9 Mike Vacanti: And unfortunately this could borderline be an argument for censorship. Like a lot of those videos go too far now to the point where they’ll just show someone get murdered.


0:12:18.5 Jordan Syatt: People die.


0:12:19.4 Mike Vacanti: They’ll just show someone…


0:12:20.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s crazy. We see people die all the time. It’s insane.


0:12:20.4 Mike Vacanti: I try and scroll off like I’m trying to predict what level of video it is, or you can block an account that’s posting a lot of that type of stuff, but it’s insane.


0:12:33.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you went to your first UFC fight.


0:12:35.7 Mike Vacanti: I did.


0:12:37.0 Jordan Syatt: You loved it.


0:12:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was… I mean, I told you Gary had an extra ticket. I was out in New York coaching him for a few days. He had an extra ticket to UFC 302 Dustin vs Islam. And…


0:12:49.4 Jordan Syatt: With sick seats, Gary had sick seats. [laughter]


0:12:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. They were incredible.


0:12:56.0 Jordan Syatt: Like four seats, second row.


0:12:57.9 Mike Vacanti: Incredible, incredible seats.


0:12:58.2 Jordan Syatt: An amazing card.


0:13:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was. It was really fun. I was telling you my immediate first impression was the difference because you can evaluate any sport watching on TV versus watching in-person and what the difference in that experience is like. I actually find watching the NFL to be extremely enjoyable on TV, like the TV production and what you gather from the game compared to being in-person. I really like watching football on TV. The NHL is a sport where being there with decent seats is way better than watching on TV. Yeah. UFC watching on like being there live, the intensity of it compared to buying a pay-per-view, watching on TV is night and day. It might be the biggest gap in terms of enjoyment of watching live versus watching on TV.


0:13:53.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I think it makes total sense from the perspective of the music, the lights, the environment. Also, because you were so close and you had such good seats, it makes sense.


0:14:05.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s part of it.


0:14:07.0 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been to one UFC, it was a long time ago, and I was so high up in the stands that I was just watching the Megatron or whatever it’s called, was the video thing. I don’t know what it’s called. Watching the video screen.


0:14:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Sounds good.


0:14:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And as someone who really likes fighting and the techniques, I prefer watching it on TV because I’m actually looking to see what they’re doing, to actually dive in. But it’s the atmosphere of a fight is just, it’s unlike anything. Especially the UFC, their promotion is unbelievable. Their production is just outrageous, and it does make me think back to the coliseum times, where it’s like when you get a stadium full of thousands of people watching people fight. Not just fight, but fight to the death. I couldn’t imagine the dopamine rush that those people would have because especially in their day-to-day lives, they don’t have the dopamine… They don’t have the ease of access to dopamine that we have. Right. Their day-to-day lives are relatively mundane.


0:15:13.7 Jordan Syatt: And then all of a sudden the emperor announces we’re having new coliseum fights, we’re having a new gladiator and people… And they announce it months in advance and people just get so excited for it. The huge buildup. And it’s a multi-day event where people are literally fighting to death. I couldn’t imagine that rush that people got watching that. That must have been insane. So I think today the UFC or any mixed martial arts event is the modern day coliseum style. And they just do such a great job with the whole production.


0:15:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It was very fun.


0:15:52.9 Jordan Syatt: And now you’re a big fight guy. Big Dustin Poirier guy.


0:15:58.6 Mike Vacanti: [laughter] I was rooting hard for him. Dustin Diamond. Diamond Dustin. I told you the thing about UFC is I’m asleep. I would watch it, but I’m asleep for every single fight. Not every fight, but every main card basically.


0:16:16.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. The prelims, you’re getting ready for bed. [laughter]


0:16:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s…


0:16:21.0 Jordan Syatt: You almost got in a fight with some Dagestani dudes.


0:16:23.7 Mike Vacanti: Are we talking publicly about this?


0:16:24.7 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] Yeah.


0:16:27.2 Mike Vacanti: Dude, this was…


0:16:29.2 Jordan Syatt: I mean, you didn’t give a fight. But you almost got in a fight with some legit fighters. [laughter]


0:16:32.6 Mike Vacanti: Some very legit… One is in… I’m not gonna name names, but one of these guys who were all rooting for Islam. What happened was the people in the row behind us left after the Sean Strickland fight, after the second to last fight of the night. So there were empty seats behind us. And then in the third round of Islam vs Dustin, four, five, six, seven of these Dagestani [laughter] fighter/Islam’s training partners/friends/you know who knows, but frightening individuals with mangled ears and the chin beards and yelling with very scary voices came behind us. And it was intense, right? The fight was intense. It went to the middle of the fifth round. And I’m gonna leave it at that. But yes, it was very intense.


0:17:28.8 Jordan Syatt: And fortunately you didn’t push, didn’t shove. Didn’t say any… Had no choice words.


0:17:34.6 Mike Vacanti: Look, what am I gonna say? I looked around and I was like this is not… There’s no good outcomes here. I wasn’t that emotionally invested.


0:17:44.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s so crazy. I might get the numbers wrong. I was watching this video explaining how many UFC fighters come from Dagestan, and I might get the numbers wrong, I’m pretty sure it said 40% of the Russian fighters come from Dagestan. So 40% of the fighters from Russia come from Dagestan, which is crazy ’cause Dagestan has a very small population. It’s not huge. And the way that this person analyzed it said that imagine if 40% of the UFC fighters from the United States came from Arizona, for example. Like if you’re seeing 40% of the American fighters coming out of Arizona you are like something’s going on in Arizona, how are all of these fighters coming out of Arizona? That’s what it’s like in Dagestan with the Andis. These young kids, dude, they get into fighting from a super young age and they’re literally bred to fight. It is absolutely insane.


0:18:46.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s accurate too. Dagestan, 3 million. I think the population of Russia is around 150 million. Arizona, 7.4. The US is in the three hundreds. That’s crazy.


0:18:57.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Insane.


0:18:58.2 Mike Vacanti: I can’t believe that you, given you’re…


0:19:06.3 Jordan Syatt: Are you going back to EMFs?


0:19:08.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I can’t get over it. Your caution around processed meats, like your whole fiber journey you’ve been on for these last several years. Like all of these things that all stemmed from… All of these things stem from you not wanting cancer and you just don’t even care at all. I guess you’re in a good place mentally. Maybe that’s what that means.


0:19:26.5 Jordan Syatt: I mean, I also don’t think I’m doing anything. I don’t think I’m that exposed to EMFs.


0:19:32.4 Mike Vacanti: Bro, look at what’s in both of our ears right now. You don’t think that those things [laughter] Bro, you think…


0:19:38.0 Jordan Syatt: No, but I don’t have AirPods and I’m…


0:19:40.7 Mike Vacanti: What’s on your head?


0:19:42.7 Jordan Syatt: I wear these like for very brief amount of time. I wear these like twice a week.


0:19:47.9 Mike Vacanti: I gotcha.


0:19:49.2 Jordan Syatt: For an hour. I’m not wearing these all the time. I wear these like the headphones like twice a week. And I think my overall exposure is super low.


0:19:57.7 Mike Vacanti: The thing is I know so little that I don’t know anything about your or my exposure ’cause I haven’t done enough research. Like phone in pocket. I mean, is your phone ever not on you?


0:20:07.9 Jordan Syatt: Then I’m fucked.


0:20:09.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. But all of these things…


0:20:11.5 Jordan Syatt: Usually the weekends, but otherwise, yeah. Yeah. It’s on me for all. It’s like glued to me.


0:20:15.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And so look, I’m not jumping on, I don’t wanna identify with this crazy dude who says we should only eat animal products. And I hate that that’s how this was spun. But I’m going to start doing some research and look, I’m looking out for you and me and our future lineage.


0:20:32.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, honestly, I appreciate it. And I’m excited to hear what you come up with. [laughter]


0:20:39.9 Mike Vacanti: Me too. Me too.


0:20:40.0 Jordan Syatt: You know what I really wanna learn about is I wanna learn about how to grow my own vegetables and my own food. I really wanna learn. I wanna learn how to… Is it called homesteading? Is that the word that they use for it? I wanna grow my own stuff.


0:20:56.8 Mike Vacanti: That sounds right. That’d be cool.


0:21:00.2 Jordan Syatt: You know, that’d be super cool. I really wanna like, and I don’t know, I just feel like that’d be fun.


0:21:05.3 Mike Vacanti: Do you know what you would start with?


0:21:07.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, I mean this obviously isn’t vegetables. I would, I like the idea of having chickens, so I can get eggs, which is dude so crazy. And I don’t know much about this. I know very little, but I’m pretty sure they lay an egg almost every day, if not every day. Hens do.


0:21:23.5 Mike Vacanti: Paul Saladino has chickens.


0:21:25.6 Jordan Syatt: You know what? I’m never having a chicken.




0:21:27.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m just kidding. I don’t know. I don’t know that he does.


0:21:30.5 Jordan Syatt: No. They lay an egg every day, I think.


0:21:35.6 Mike Vacanti: Do they lay one every day?


0:21:36.7 Jordan Syatt: Google it. You check, check up on me ’cause I think it’s almost every day a hen lays an egg.


0:21:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Hens typically lay eggs every 24 to 26 hours under ideal conditions.


0:21:47.8 Jordan Syatt: How crazy is that? Is that not absolutely wild to you, that every day she’s laying an egg?


0:21:54.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s pretty sweet.


0:21:55.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s nuts. And I was like, “man, I would love to have eggs, like fresh eggs.” So, I mean, I’d like to do that, but like, with everything, I think it’s probably more work than you realize. So you gotta keep the coop clean, da da da da. So make sure that foxes and stuff can’t get into it.


0:22:12.1 Mike Vacanti: That would be a good use of time though.


0:22:13.5 Jordan Syatt: I agree.


0:22:14.5 Mike Vacanti: If you were to spend a half hour doing whatever putzing around outside with the hens type of work compared to some kind of sedentary form of relaxation, it’d be a cool thing to add to the day to day.


0:22:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I agree. So I’d like chickens. I don’t know which… I would like, I’d like tomatoes. Tomatoes, I would love to grow my own tomatoes. I eat a lot.


0:22:38.3 Mike Vacanti: Love tomatoes.


0:22:39.2 Jordan Syatt: But the thing is like, I don’t know how this is just gonna show how, I don’t how much I don’t know. Like, I eat a lot of tomatoes, so how many can I grow? And then once I pick them, how quickly do they grow again? And you know what I mean? It’s like going to the grocery store and just getting a bunch of tomatoes is way easier. What’s realistic in terms of how many tomatoes can one do actually grow in a relatively small space?


0:23:06.4 Mike Vacanti: Can I press you on reasoning for this in terms of, it would just be a fun hobby? What if the global food supply shuts down? Our food is being contaminated, like, cost savings. Like, what are the reasons in order?


0:23:28.5 Jordan Syatt: The main reason is I want my daughter to… I was trying to think like, what would I want my daughter to see me doing and what would like I, what memories would I like her to have of us together? And I remember going to my friend’s house, his name is Jeff, Jeff Woodard. And his mom had a whole garden where they would pick foods. And I’d always be like, man, that’s amazing. And I would, I really want her to have great memories of doing things that she would like not only be happy about and excited about, but also things that could also help her and her family. And that’s a skill that is just, it’s an invaluable skill. And, there are so many positives that come from it, whether it’s food supply is tainted or whatever it is. Being able to provide for yourself that, I think that’s just the ultimate.


0:24:24.0 Jordan Syatt: But also having her watch me do that I think is just, it’s a really, it would be a really nice thing. And it’s something I always thought about how much I would have loved to see that in my family and we didn’t. So, and I think it would be fun to do together, go out and to see how much work goes into making your own food and how, and being appreciative for the food that you have. I think now with the grocery store, most of my life I took it for granted. Oh yeah. We just have all these tomatoes here and we have all this food and we have all this meat, this packaged meat. And that was what going hunting for me. Like, I logically knew an animal was being killed before that, but now if I go to the grocery store and pick up meat, it’s like, Oh, like, I have a much more, I have a greater connection with what I’m eating just because I’ve been involved in the process of getting that food even just one time. So that’s honestly the biggest thing is I would like to have that with my daughter.


0:25:28.6 Mike Vacanti: Really cool. And just fun for her to do growing up, right? It’s additional time outside. It’s additional time getting sun. It’s additional grounding. It’s additional like…


0:25:38.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Getting dirty.


0:25:39.9 Mike Vacanti: Hands. Yeah. Yeah. Building that immune system. You don’t wanna be an indoor kid. Yeah. It’s no good comes from that.


0:25:47.0 Jordan Syatt: Have you ever done any gardening? You do any gardening or your parents do any of that?


0:25:52.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. My mom and one of my sisters like to do a little bit of that for fun. My mom grew up next to a farm and…


0:26:01.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay.


0:26:02.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And my great grandpa had a farm.


0:26:05.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow. A big farm?


0:26:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It was good sized. I don’t, you know, I was so young. You posted the thing about him, one of my first memories having him cut the head off of a chicken and the chicken run around… Did you post that or was that just on an old episode? That might have just been on an old episode.


0:26:26.3 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t post anything about you seeing a chicken’s head get cut off.


0:26:28.7 Mike Vacanti: I know what happened.


0:26:30.2 Jordan Syatt: You saw a chicken’s head get cut off?


0:26:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. When…


0:26:34.4 Jordan Syatt: Really?


0:26:35.3 Mike Vacanti: You posted something and I was like, what episode was that from? And you said episode 150, because I wanted to go back and see the context of the episode.


0:26:41.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah.


0:26:42.3 Mike Vacanti: And just what was going on. And in that episode I talked about that, but yes, that was…


0:26:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow. Yeah. I just forgot.


0:26:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. No, I think, look, I think farming is an unbelievably important and meaningful profession, and I’m very grateful for those who do it. And yeah. Dude, do you remember in 2018 when we were in the city, I literally remember we were in my apartment and I was craving nature. And there’s skyscrapers all around us, like concrete everywhere, like there’s no, there’s like nothing natural about this place where we are. And you were like, you should go, you should go like intern at a farm for three months in the summer, like bale hay and stuff. And I was like. Nah.


0:27:37.9 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] It’s so hard, dude. I’m just thinking of like a very small scale garden in the backyard.


0:27:42.6 Mike Vacanti: Of course.


0:27:43.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m not thinking like opening up a 60 acre beet farm.


0:27:48.6 Mike Vacanti: Of course. Although you might, you love beets.


0:27:51.7 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] You know what I like? Oh, two of the most underrated fruits of all time. Plums and cherries.


0:28:02.8 Mike Vacanti: I have cherries highly rated. So, but yes, they’re both very good.


0:28:07.9 Jordan Syatt: They’re just, I’ve never heard anyone say their favorite fruit is a plum. And even me when someone asks my favorite fruit is, it doesn’t even come to mind in my top three. But my wife got plums the other day and I was like, This is absolutely in my top three favorite fruits. It’s an amazing fruit.


0:28:22.0 Mike Vacanti: A good plum is very good. The downside of a not-so-good plum is that they’re quite flavorless. A good flavorful plum is outstanding.


0:28:33.1 Jordan Syatt: It’s just so good for you. It’s delicious. It’s good for you. Yeah. Love a good plum.


0:28:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Fruits where it’s at. Micronutrients.


0:28:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:28:43.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, speaking of, I saved this for the podcast. And this could actually, this is gonna make a good discussion around, like trigger foods and keeping certain types of foods in the house and how your environment impacts your ability to adhere to a diet. Given you’re on a mini cut here, I think it’ll make good conversation, but I’ll give you a little context. I was shopping around Costco. I went there to pick up a few things and I decided I’m just gonna grab a cart, walk around and see if there’s anything that I want. I was thinking about getting extra calories, keeping it nutrient dense, walking up and down a few aisles. I come across this bag of dried mango, very large 40 serving bag, I wanna say 35 carb, most of which is sugar. 140 calories per serving, 40 serving, so the cost per serving is insane.


0:29:36.4 Mike Vacanti: But in my mind, I’m thinking I’m having not the easiest time getting 500 grams of carbs in per day. And doing that with rice and potatoes is pretty brutal. And I don’t want to be eating chocolate chip chewy bars or these other random things. So this could be a good dessert type thing for me. A few pieces of dried mango. Dude, when I tell you that this dried mango from Costco is literally crack, it is unbelievable. And the kicker is it provides zero satiety. I’ve never eaten anything in my life that did this. Not one thing ever. I can eat 20 strips of mango at four strips per serving, so five servings of mango, which is put, what is that? 700 calories plus?


0:30:30.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Easy.


0:30:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Like that. And feel like I didn’t eat anything. It provides zero satiety.


0:30:42.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s so good too.


0:30:44.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m never buying it again. It might be the most dangerous.


0:30:47.6 Jordan Syatt: Did you eat all of it? Did you eat the 40 servings?


0:30:49.7 Mike Vacanti: I mean, I bought it. I think this is actually my second bag that I went through.


0:31:00.8 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] You bought two bags.


0:31:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Do you want me to take my shirt off and flex, Jordan? Huh? What are you laughing at, dude?


0:31:01.0 Jordan Syatt: No, I know that you’re shredded.


0:31:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I bought two bags. Well, I bought one bag and then it was delicious, and then I bought a second bag and that was delicious too.


0:31:12.1 Jordan Syatt: Was it just regular or was there sugar added? It was just regular.


0:31:15.2 Mike Vacanti: No. There’s added sugar.


0:31:15.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, there is added sugar. Oh, those are super dangerous. Yeah. Interesting.


0:31:19.0 Mike Vacanti: Added sugar. But it is, it’s the fact that no other food has given me that level of, Oh, I could just keep snacking on this forever with no feeling like there’s nothing in my stomach afterwards.


0:31:37.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dried fruit will get you. There was a period of my, probably like 18 to 20 when I just, I had so much dried fruit because I was just like, oh, it’s…


0:31:47.7 Mike Vacanti: You didn’t know. Oh, it’s fruit.


0:31:49.8 Jordan Syatt: Well, I was like, Oh, it’s fruit. So it’s so funny, when I started out in fitness, I immediately went to the calorie crowd and like, you go through phases of what you believe, what you don’t believe. And when I was a young, like 14, 15, 16, I was like, oh yeah, calorie is really important. Then I went through a brief phase when I was living in Israel where I just became a little bit more like holistic. And I was like, No, it’s more like quality. And in Israel, they have number one amazingly high quality food everywhere. It’s a tiny country. It’s the size of New Jersey. And so everything is made and grown within very, it’s all local and all, they have amazing mangoes and fruit and everything. And so everywhere you go all over the street, there are street vendors selling dried fruit and smoothies and fresh fruit juices and all this stuff.


0:32:40.9 Jordan Syatt: And I remember I was just like, I would always go buy dried fruit. And I was like, oh yeah. It’s just, it’s so good for you. It’s just fruit. It’s just fruit. I would eat these huge, huge bags. And it was funny because they weren’t… When they have it in these markets, especially in the Middle East, and I would imagine other areas in Asia as well, when you see like, I don’t know, a market in India, in the movies, they have this massive table. It’s huge. It’s huge table with all these different spices and dried fruits. And if you want it, they scoop it out and they put it in a plastic bag for you. It’s not like it comes prepackaged in a bag with a logo on it. It’s just, you pick your own and you scoop it out and you put it in your own plastic bag.


0:33:20.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s how it was. So it even has this even greater health halo effect because you’re like, “Oh, this is like my fruit and I’m putting it into my bag. There’s not, it’s not from a company. There’s no logo on it, there’s no nutrition label on it. It’s just, it feels even healthier just because there’s none of that. And so, man, I used to have, like, I used to just walk around the city just with my bag of dried fruit and dried mangoes, the best by far, but also banana. Dried bananas is dangerous as well. Super good.


0:33:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Dried pineapple.


0:33:48.1 Jordan Syatt: And oh pine… Oh man. Pineapple with added sugar is better than any candy I’ve ever had in my life. Dried pineapple with added sugar is the single greatest. It’s unbelievable. It melts in your mouth. Could eat it.


0:34:01.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s drugs.


0:34:02.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah.


0:34:03.5 Mike Vacanti: Without the physiological dependence, I’m not a complete idiot. But for all intents and purposes, it could be a cigarette.


0:34:09.2 Jordan Syatt: Could be. Could be.


0:34:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Might actually be [laughter] It might be vape. They might put dried pineapple in those vapes. What are… So do you have foods that you intentionally don’t keep around the house when you’re in a fat loss phase? And if so, what are those foods?


0:34:33.4 Jordan Syatt: There’s nothing that I intentionally don’t keep around the house, but there is foods I intentionally do keep around the house. So there’s nothing where I’m like, this can’t be here, but there’s a lot that I’m like, This needs to be here. Which is very interesting as I’m saying. I don’t think I’ve ever spoken about that where it’s like, because my rules with myself are never, I can’t have it. It’s just if I do want it, then I need to have something else first. And the main rule, especially in a fat loss phase, is I just need to hit my calories, my protein and fiber. That’s the main rule. And if I hit my calories and I’m a little bit hungry, then I’m hungry. Than I go that’s it. I hit my calories already.


0:35:15.6 Mike Vacanti: But but you will, you would be okay having one piece of fried chicken or one slice of pizza and being like, that was worth it for… Would you rather, I guess… Okay.


0:35:29.6 Jordan Syatt: No, I mean, I would be okay with that mentally, but if I’m at a point where if I’m like by myself, for example, I’m not just gonna get fried chicken on a random day, especially in a fat loss phase. That just doesn’t make sense to me. If I’m going out with a buddy or with a family and we’re gonna have a family meal and we’re going to a fried like, yes, I’ll definitely have it, but I’m probably also not having one piece of fried chicken. I’m like, you know what? Fuck it today I’m gonna go over my calories today. I’m just gonna enjoy it. And, that’s that. But the thing for me in a fat loss phase is when I’m by myself, it’s so easy to be on point and dialed with my nutrition. So I’m not going outta the way to eat these not nutrient dense, not filling foods. Even if they’re more enjoyable taste wise, it just doesn’t match up with my goals.


0:36:21.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s interesting because the types of foods that you really like aren’t foods that you could necessarily keep on hand. They’re foods that need to be prepared.


0:36:30.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Like pizza, fried chicken. Yeah. French fries.


0:36:34.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You’re not as much of a sweet process packaged as you are savory higher fat, higher salt. Yes. That makes sense.


0:36:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Exactly.


0:36:45.2 Mike Vacanti: But the original point you were making is a good one, which is by having the good nutrient dense options readily available and having foods that you definitely keep around that makes it much easier to adhere.


0:37:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, so much easier. So I have like, whether it’s watermelon, whether it’s those prepackaged salad bags, it’s the easiest lunch ever. Put some chicken on top of it, or cottage cheese or something. Get some extra protein. I always have miso soup on hand. That’s like a night… ’cause again, I like the savory. So at night if I wanna have something a little bit savory, just make some miso soup and that fills you up too. A bunch of fresh fruit, whether it’s watermelon or apples or oranges. What else do I always have on hand? Yo I mean, Greek yogurts, I always have like Triple Zero Greek yogurts on hand. Yeah. That’s pretty much it. And then it’s so funny, like I just do one fat loss phase a year and then I’m good for the year. So it’s really, I think a lot of people are constantly trying to be in a fat loss phase. They just do it all the time.


0:38:00.1 Mike Vacanti: Yep.


0:38:01.2 Jordan Syatt: Even though they’re not actually in a fat loss phase, like they just think they are. So they’ll be have one or two days on and then five, six, seven days off. And then go back and forth. But they’re always thinking about being a fat loss phase. And that’s where, especially when you’re working with clients, making them like, Hey, that’s why I like the… Sometimes the Jab approach, where it’s like, Hey, we’re gonna have one week perfectly on and then one week maintenance. One week perfectly on, one week maintenance. Because when you just have one week, you have to be perfect, they’re so much more likely to be on point. And then we can slightly increase calories, bring them up to maintenance, practice the skill of maintenance and then go back and do a deficit, back to maintenance, back to deficit, back to maintenance.


0:38:43.9 Jordan Syatt: Even if it’s two or three weeks of perfection and then one or two weeks of maintenance, it’s really, really, really helpful, because it actually, it gives them a light at the end of the tunnel to say, Okay, well, this is it and then I can back off and take a week or two and just be light.


0:38:58.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, there’s interesting research around that. Two weeks on, two weeks at maintenance in terms of ability to adhere in total fat loss over an extent, like a 6 or a 12-month period, that the caveat is, maintenance doesn’t mean eat whatever you want, maintenance means you’re probably tracking and you’re gonna be in your maintenance range.


0:39:20.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And that is where… That’s why I think this method is so helpful, because most people never practice maintenance. They’re either in a fat loss phase or eating as much as they want. And so when it’s like, Hey, let’s be very clear. You’re in a fat loss phase for two weeks and in maintenance phase for two weeks. In your maintenance phase, you’re eating 200-300 more calories a day, it’s not that much. You’re still tracking. All of a sudden, it’s like, Oh, so this is what maintenance looks like.” So when they do eventually reach their goal, they don’t just rebound and gain it all back within four, six, eight weeks. It’s like, Oh okay, so now I know what maintenance actually looks like.


0:39:58.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s a great point. You’re not doing a Jab Deficit for this though, because it’s just not a very long period of time.


0:40:05.6 Jordan Syatt: And I don’t struggle with consistency. When I decide to do it, it’s done.


0:40:10.6 Mike Vacanti: You’re just gonna do it.


0:40:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I don’t need… And if I need a day or so off, I’ll take it, and then I get right back on track. Like, if I’m having a holiday or whatever.


0:40:21.9 Mike Vacanti: But a day or so off for you is there’s a real event where the enjoyment of that event trumps the adherence.


0:40:30.4 Jordan Syatt: Yes.


0:40:31.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s not like, I’m just feeling a little extra hungry one day, so I’m gonna give myself a day off on day six of my fat-loss phase?


0:40:37.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Exactly. Exactly. You know what else is… I think I’ve changed my mind on this. When I was younger, and even not that long ago, actually, a major recommendation that I would give, and I think many people still give, is if you’re going out to an event that night, for example, just don’t eat or really, really, really reduce how much you eat leading up to the event. And I actually think that ends up back firing, because people will get super hungry and then end up overeating at the event, whereas if you can fill up and not necessarily eat normally, but fill up on a lot of protein, a lot of vegetables earlier in the day… Don’t be hungry going to the event. Be full going to the event, on protein and vegetables and fruit, and then enjoy yourself. Oh my gosh. It’s like the same thing, don’t go to the grocery store hungry. Don’t go to an event hungry. It’s a terrible idea.


0:41:43.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s spot on. That’s really good advice. I like… Even 50 or 60 grams of protein right before you leave, especially if it’s the type of event where you’re not gonna sit down when you get there and be able to order a steak and have protein be the first thing you eat, there might be hors d’oeuvres, there might be a 90-minute cocktail hour or whatever it is, but if you have 50-60 grams of protein right before you go, and some fibers, some fruit, whatever, but that protein especially, it’s gonna blunt hunger and allow the carbs and fats you eat after. You’re just gonna eat fewer of them in total because you had that protein.


0:42:22.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so true.


0:42:24.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m with you though. I don’t… On paper, it looks like it makes sense. We’re just gonna fast the whole day, and then you have a 1800 calories at the event. But you can easily go over that, especially depending on the food choices that are available. And most of these places aren’t loaded with lean protein. You might get very lucky and like, Oh, they’re passing around chicken skewers, but you can’t bank on that heading into most events.


0:42:48.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, if you’re going to a Mexican restaurant and there are chips, good luck.




0:42:55.0 Mike Vacanti: Good luck.




0:42:56.6 Jordan Syatt: Good luck. Dude, chips… Do you know how many calories…


0:43:01.5 Mike Vacanti: This is…


0:43:01.7 Jordan Syatt: Calories in tortilla chips are so high. That might be the most depressing calories…


0:43:05.2 Mike Vacanti: Well, and guac.


0:43:07.4 Jordan Syatt: And guac, obviously. And here in Texas, everyone’s getting queso with it, and I’m like, Dear lord, that’s a 8000-calorie pre-meal right there.


0:43:16.6 Mike Vacanti: You know what’s awesome? And this highlights such a difference between us and my question earlier, that didn’t really make sense to you, about trigger foods in the house, and I’m thinking Oreos, I’m thinking Ice cream, I’m thinking sweet, processed. I could go the rest of my life going to a Mexican restaurant three days a week and not eating a single chip before the meal and just letting them sit…


0:43:38.3 Jordan Syatt: No way.


0:43:39.1 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Yep. Just like…


0:43:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Really? You just don’t care about the chips? That’s crazy.


0:43:44.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think they’re that good. I know. They’re fine, but if I’m trying to be dialed and you put out Oreos, okay, now we have a problem. But chips and salsa, yeah.


0:43:56.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, that’s so funny.


0:43:57.4 Mike Vacanti: I could have one chip and salsa and then just sit there and not be tempted and sip my tap water.


0:44:01.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s so interesting. That’s crazy how taste buds work too ’cause we’ve got… We’re so different. And not just you and I, but in general…


0:44:10.7 Mike Vacanti: People.


0:44:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Humans are so different. And also your taste buds can change over time. That was actually a really good piece of all this… Another piece of my Explore feed is all this parenting advice, which is crazy, ’cause I never search for parenting advice, but somehow, they know that I might need it. [chuckle] And there was this woman who was giving parenting advice for your children with food and getting them to try new foods and basically telling them the truth and being like, Listen, you don’t have to eat this, but you do have to try it. And the reason you have to try it is because your taste buds change over time, and so what maybe you don’t like now, you will like later, and what you didn’t like before, you’ll like now. I was like, Oh, that’s genius. It’s a great way of explaining how many thousands of taste buds you have. But, yeah, Oreos, I couldn’t care less about Oreos. Tortilla chips, I’ll fuck some tortilla chips up.


0:45:07.9 Mike Vacanti: Is the research around taste buds a real field of study? And do we know a lot about it? Or are we more in early stages with that kind of stuff?


0:45:20.6 Jordan Syatt: I have no clue.


0:45:20.7 Mike Vacanti: You’re going off of content that you got served up on your Explorer page?


0:45:23.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct. Correct.


0:45:24.7 Mike Vacanti: Because when I think of taste buds, I go straight… I don’t know any research around taste buds changing. I go pure intuition, n=1 personal experience, which is basically that I could make myself like any food. I almost think it’s psychological.


0:45:41.6 Jordan Syatt: I think it is. I think it absolutely is. We see this all the time with coffee. Granted coffee is different because caffeine, which I don’t know if that’s technically a drug or not, but we see… Again, alcohol is a drug, so people can take… No one likes whiskey the first time they drink it, but over time, it can be an acquired taste. But I think foods can be an acquired taste as well, even if they don’t have these drugs associated with them.


0:46:12.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Onions, tomatoes, mushrooms. There are lots of different foods that are often not loved by kids, but eventually you just start to appreciate them.


0:46:24.3 Jordan Syatt: I also feel like kids have… And I don’t have research to support this, but from my own experience, I feel like kids have an unusual desire for sweetness. Kids love sugar so much. I rarely see an adult in those candy stores in the mall. Rarely are adults being like, Oh yeah, let me just go get gummy worms and gummy bears. But kids lose their fucking mind over that stuff.


0:46:58.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s a great point.


0:46:58.6 Jordan Syatt: And it’s funny. Adults will go more for the high sugar, high fat options, so maybe the Twix…


0:47:05.8 Mike Vacanti: Chocolate.


0:47:06.6 Jordan Syatt: Or the Reese’s cups or that stuff, whereas kids, they go straight sugar. They literally have Pixy Stix, and they will fucking eat sugar. Kids have a very, very unique relationship. And I think maybe their taste buds are more prone to or maybe they just want sugar more. I don’t know. But it definitely changes as you get older.


0:47:29.5 Mike Vacanti: Good point. It’s a good point. You don’t see the adults walking around Dylan’s Candy Store just slurping down gummy worms.


0:47:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and if you do see an adult just standing around there with all those kids, might not be a good sign. [laughter] There’ll be an adult just…


0:47:46.3 Mike Vacanti: Jordan’s on predator alert.




0:47:50.7 Jordan Syatt: That dude is just standing there, looking inside. You call mall security immediately.


0:47:53.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You want some candy. [laughter]


0:47:56.5 Jordan Syatt: You don’t go anywhere with that guy.


0:47:58.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, taste buds are interesting, for sure. You’ve seen the videos, I assume, of baby’s first ice cream bite?


0:48:04.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh dude, not only have I seen them. My daughter, I have done… Oh yeah, it’s the best.


0:48:10.7 Mike Vacanti: Some of them are… That’s why I said them and not yours, because there’s a scale to the reaction that you’ll see. But some of them are borderline frightening.


0:48:23.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Where they’re like… Their eyes go really big and they…


0:48:26.4 Mike Vacanti: Their eyes just shoot up, they reach out. It’s… There’s a delayed reaction to it. Just eating something that they’ve never consumed before, that has had nine figures, potentially 10 figures, invested into making it as palatable as possible. Essentially a chemical, a lot of these foods. And everything’s a chemical, but… You get what I mean. This is no one-ingredient food.


0:48:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s engineered specifically for this one purpose, our…


0:49:00.5 Mike Vacanti: For maximum consumption, for maximum bottom line for these businesses. And just seeing the kid react to that is… I don’t know. There’s something… Look, I’m not right, and I’m not saying, Don’t give your kids ice cream ever. Obviously not. That is… It goes against what I believe about flexible dieting, but there’s something dystopian about the more extreme versions of those videos.


0:49:25.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and it’s funny. We give our daughter ice cream or cake or whatever, but it’s not every day. And she’ll ask. She’ll be like, Ice cream. Ice cream. Ice cream. And we’ll be like, Oh no, not today. We had it yesterday. We don’t need it today. But it is funny because I think she’s like me. When I was a kid, my mom would always laugh and tease me, ’cause at birthday parties, I wouldn’t eat the cake. I don’t like cake. The only cake that I like is ice cream cake. If there’s ice cream cake, I’ll eat it. But regular cake, I think, is gross. I don’t like it.


0:50:02.0 Jordan Syatt: And so I remember at Acton Bowladrome, I forget whose birthday it was. Might have been Stuart Rault. But Acton Bowladrome, there was cake, and there was watermelon. And they were like, Do you want cake? I was like, No, I’ll just have watermelon. And Mom lost it. She was like, You’re the only kid in the whole party who’s having fruit instead of cake. It’s just I preferred it. My daughter, the other day, we were having ice cream, my wife was having some ice cream and I was having watermelon, and we offered her both, and she chose the watermelon.


0:50:29.3 Mike Vacanti: Cool.


0:50:29.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s very interesting how it is different based on the child, some children freak out. And even though she does ask for ice cream, she’s never freaked out about it. I think she likes it ’cause it’s cold, more than anything, on her teething, it’s not because the taste. She seems to enjoy fruit. My daughter freaks out for blueberries, not for ice cream. Every day she’ll come downstairs, it’s like, Berries. Berries. Screaming for berries. So it’s very cool to see that develop in a child. And I would imagine… I wouldn’t imagine. It’s very obvious that what you’re trained to eat as a child will massively impact your palette as you become an adult. Never mind the habits and everything associated with it, but your palette that you develop as a child will absolutely impact how you eat as an adult.


0:51:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Fully agreed. And I think that you’re doing a really smart thing, and anyone who does this, by introducing something like ice cream or some hyperpalatable foods, because that’s the environment that they’re going to grow up in. That’s the food environments they’re going to experience in the future. And so, of course, you can have some ice cream, but not every day, and you can’t eat as much as you want. And learning how to build good habits with access to those types of foods is really smart, rather than, No, you’re never allowed. These are bad.


0:52:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:52:06.4 Mike Vacanti: And then 10 years old at your first unsupervised thing and go crazy and… Yeah, that’s not good.


0:52:14.3 Jordan Syatt: She’s also learned… She would do this… I remember the first couple of times after we had ice cream after dinner, there were a couple of nights where she wouldn’t eat dinner and just ask for ice cream. So she would just be sitting there asking for it, and that’s when we were like, No. No ice cream tonight. So she learned that, first, you eat your dinner, and then if you’re hungry after and then if you want, then we can have ice cream sometimes throughout the week, not every day. But there were a couple nights where she literally ate less. She stopped eating early, just asking for it, and then we would try to give her the other food and she wouldn’t do it. And I think many people would have just given in and said, Well, just eat something. Eat the ice cream.


0:52:56.0 Jordan Syatt: And my wife and I were like, No, if she doesn’t want to eat, she doesn’t have to eat, but she’s not getting ice cream because she didn’t eat the other food. And then very quickly, within a couple of days, she was eating her whole dinner. And then if she wanted the ice cream, she could have it.


0:53:09.8 Mike Vacanti: Thank you very much for listening. Great episode. We’ll be back next week. Every single Tuesday. Have a good week.


0:53:10.4 Jordan Syatt: See ya.

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