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In this episode, we discuss our body fat percentage (see if you can guess what we are), the good girl/bad girl machine, severe lactose intolerance, and more.


We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at

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-J & M


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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here


Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:


0:00:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.


0:00:12.2 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?


0:00:13.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m coming to you from an undisclosed location.


0:00:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re like Edwards Snowden right now.


0:00:17.8 Mike Vacanti: I literally, literally am in Siberia. What were you just sipping on there? Was that in line with your fat loss goals? It looks creamy.


0:00:28.8 Jordan Syatt: You bet it’s in line with my fat loss goals. It’s a Nitro Cold Brew with a little bit of milk.


0:00:34.0 Mike Vacanti: Very nice. What kind of milk?


0:00:36.0 Jordan Syatt: 2% Lactaid. ‘Cause, you know, I can’t handle the lactose, so a little 2% Lactaid milk.


0:00:43.0 Mike Vacanti: Nice. I like it.


0:00:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, man. What are you drinking, just water?


0:00:47.2 Mike Vacanti: Just ice water. Just finished my post-workout. Got to my undisclosed location here on the road, not missing podcasts.


0:00:56.0 Jordan Syatt: How’s your workout? You have a good workout?


0:00:58.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was a 6 out of 10.


0:01:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay. All right. Nice.


0:01:01.3 Mike Vacanti: It was a little rushed, but I got everything in.


0:01:03.7 Jordan Syatt: I love that.


0:01:04.2 Mike Vacanti: Inadequate rest time on the arms at the end of the workout, but got all the volume in.


0:01:10.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s good. And, you know, less rest time you get, you can get the same amount of mechanical tension with less weight.


0:01:21.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s supposedly true. Yeah.


0:01:23.6 Jordan Syatt: Allegedly.


0:01:24.4 Mike Vacanti: Allegedly. Allegedly.


0:01:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I trained with… I know you’re a big UFC guy now. Do you know who Neil Magny is?


0:01:32.8 Mike Vacanti: I do not.


0:01:33.2 Jordan Syatt: All right. Neil Magny is ranked number eight in the world right now. He’s top 10 fighter, top eight fighter in his weight class. I think it’s welterweight? He’s my new boxing coach, bro.


0:01:47.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude, you’re boxing?


0:01:49.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So, it’s so crazy. It just, out of nowhere, I’ve DM’d him a couple times, and I never expect him to see it. And he always sees it. He’s such a nice guy. I’ll be watching him fight on the UFC main cards, and I’ll be watching him and then I’ll DM him while he’s fighting like, “Oh, that was so sick!” DM him whatever, I’ll just randomly send him a message. And after the fight he’ll reply, be like, “Haha, thanks, man,” whatever, just like really nice. He posts a story up on his Instagram the other day just being like, “Hey, if anyone… ” He lives in Dallas. He trains in Dallas. He’s like, “Hey, if anyone wants striking lessons, let me know.” And I was like, “There’s no way this guy’s gonna drive to me.” I was assuming he would just do it at whatever academy he trains at.


0:02:33.0 Jordan Syatt: So I DM’d him. I was like, “Hey, man, you wouldn’t drive to XYZ town, would you?” And he was like, “Yeah, man, for sure.” And I was like, “Shut the fuck up.” So, Tuesdays and Thursdays for the foreseeable future. He could cancel at any time, but he is Tuesdays and Thursdays, 10:00 AM. So, today was the first day we trained, and…


[overlapping conversation]


0:02:53.0 Mike Vacanti: How did it go?


0:02:54.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it was, number one… You know how fighters they have the name when Bruce Buffer is announcing them? They’re like, “Conor ‘The Notorious’ McGregor!” or whatever. You know, like Neil Magny is “Hands of Steel”.


0:03:10.8 Mike Vacanti: Okay.


0:03:11.3 Jordan Syatt: He’s just like… He’s got heavy, heavy hands. So he would just show me a couple things and he’d want me to do it. Just when he was lightly touching me, I was like, “Oh my God, that really hurt.”




0:03:27.1 Jordan Syatt: He’d give me a little touch with a hook to the body, and I was just like, “Oh my gosh!” Just a light touch, I was like, “Oh my dude, I never wanna fight professionally ever, and I definitely don’t wanna get hit by you ever.” But it was great. It was really, really cool. We jumped right in, really cool, super nice down-to-earth guy. So, yeah, that was like a dream come true right there. I don’t know how long it’ll last. I doubt it’ll last very long, but if it does, then great. But it was very cool.


0:04:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Were you looking to do some striking and the opportunity just came? Or not really but because the opportunity was there you’re like, “I can’t pass this up?”


0:04:09.8 Jordan Syatt: I wasn’t actively looking or seeking out striking at all. I’ve always wanted to learn about it. It’s one of those things that are… I love watching the fights. I love watching mixed martial arts whether it’s UFC, Bellator, whatever. I generally prefer when they go to the ground because that’s what I know. I like watching them wrestle. I like watching them do jiu-jitsu. That’s what I know. I can see what they’re setting up. I can see what they’re going for. When I’m watching them strike and I’m listening to the announcers call it, I still don’t even really understand everything. When I’m watching them strike, when I’m watching, I don’t know… I can see basic things. Obviously I know what type of punch they threw. Obviously I know when they’re fainting. But it’s different to know what they’re doing. It’s another thing to know what they’re setting up, what they want the other person to think they’re trying to do so that they can then do something else. So, I don’t know striking to anywhere near the degree that I know grappling, wrestling, jiu-jitsu. So, I’ve wanted to learn for a long time. And so, when I saw him post it, I just instinctively got… I was like, “Yeah, let’s do this. Let’s see.” And I didn’t think he would. I was like, “There’s no way he’s driving out to my town.” And he was like, “Yeah, no problem.”


0:05:27.0 Mike Vacanti: What do you think his angle is? So, when you first said “top 10” and then you said top 10 is weight class, is that not some… Is that not like a position that gets paid a lot in the UFC, and so he’s training people on the side to support himself?


0:05:50.0 Jordan Syatt: This is opening up a whole can of worms. And within the mixed martial arts community, the UFC gets hated on a lot because they don’t pay their fighters enough. Now, I don’t know the inner workings of it, but I do know other organizations pay fighters way better than the UFC does. And in the UFC, the only way you make real money is if… It’s not even necessarily about your ranking as much as it is about how much of a superstar you are to people. So, obviously if you become a champion, you’ll make more money. But it’s even less about that and more about how much of a draw you are based on your personality, which is why we’ve seen, really since Conor McGregor, more people coming out and acting brash and saying crazy things because they become more of a draw; they put more butts in seats. So, I don’t know how much money he makes. I don’t wanna make any false speculations as to why he’s doing this.


0:06:58.7 Jordan Syatt: But I’m gonna pause right here, bro. I have to shit so bad out of nowhere. I’m gonna shit my pants.


0:07:04.9 Mike Vacanti: Go poop, go poop.


0:07:06.0 Jordan Syatt: I’ll be right back. Sorry David…


0:07:06.8 Mike Vacanti: Dude, we’re running this, bro.


0:07:08.7 Jordan Syatt: We’re not running this.




[elevator music]


0:07:23.8 Jordan Syatt: All right, bro. If you want, we can keep that in. Man, if you want, just make it funnier ’cause this is not gonna be the best podcast. But yeah, I’m now wondering if that milk was not actually Lactaid ’cause [laughter], dude, I don’t think that was lactose-free milk. I haven’t had anything happen to me like that in years, since I don’t really have milk anymore. Dude, that was awful. And I’m hoping it doesn’t happen again.


0:07:50.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m sorry, bro. So, you’re saying that on the Bristol Scale it was like a 6 or a 7?


0:07:55.0 Jordan Syatt: I don’t remember. I’ll tell you this though. My…


[overlapping conversation]


0:07:58.1 Mike Vacanti: 1 is pebbles, 4 is a snake, 3 is like a lumpy snake, 7 is liquid.


0:08:05.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It was a 7.


0:08:06.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m sorry, bro. You’re usually very dialed with your high-fiber intake.


0:08:10.3 Jordan Syatt: And you could see… It’s funny. If you watch on YouTube, I was starting to get really squirmy as I was talking, just because I was like, “Oh no, maybe I could just not let it happen,” and I was, “Dude, I’m about to explode.” Yeah, so.


0:08:25.8 Mike Vacanti: No worries, man.


0:08:26.1 Jordan Syatt: Wow, that was terrible.


0:08:27.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m so sorry to hear that.


0:08:29.0 Jordan Syatt: Anyway, I don’t wanna make any false speculations about why he’s doing this, but I would imagine that if he was getting paid sufficiently for number eight… Like, number eight, being a top 10 in your weight class is like literally best in the world. Top 10 in your weight, nevermind being in the UFC, but top 10 in the UFC in your division is insane. He’s beaten some of the best guys in the world…


[overlapping conversation]


0:08:54.4 Mike Vacanti: Well, it looks like… He was born in ’87, so it looks like he’s been fighting for a while too.


0:09:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So, he started around 20. He’s like 33 right now. Is that right? No, no. No, no. Born ’87. Geez, I’m wrong.


0:09:07.8 Mike Vacanti: 35, 36, 37?


0:09:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Either way, within the mixed martial arts community, it’s very well known that UFC fighters specifically do not get paid what they should be. And it’s a major problem and I think it’s gonna lead to some legal issues, ’cause they’re not getting paid enough. But I would imagine if he was happy with his pay, he probably wouldn’t be doing one-on-one coaching. I would imagine. His job is fighting.


0:09:34.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:09:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Realistically, he should be…


0:09:37.1 Mike Vacanti: I was just trying to get to… Yeah, so, it is; he’s just doing it like a personal trainer who’s an independent trainer not working for a gym, and going to people’s houses and coaching them and get… I didn’t know if there was some kind of angle where because you have an audience, he was coaching you for exposure. That’s what I was getting at. And cool.


0:09:54.7 Jordan Syatt: No, that wasn’t even part of the discussion. Literally just coach.


0:10:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Makes sense.


0:10:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Just coaching. Yeah.


0:10:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Dude…


0:10:01.0 Jordan Syatt: But it was very fun.


0:10:03.2 Mike Vacanti: We’ve been going for 15 minutes here, minus the little number 7 break. I’m in this undisclosed location sitting under fluorescent lights, and I can feel like cancer brewing in my cells.


0:10:20.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, geez. [laughter]


0:10:21.0 Mike Vacanti: I do not know how people… No, I’m serious, man. I’m feeling ill. You know what? We’re going non-undisclosed. I’m gonna show you what’s going on in here. I’m just gonna show you what this room is. We have like…


0:10:38.0 Jordan Syatt: I feel like you’re in Men in Black.


0:10:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Fake plant… I do too. Fluorescent light. David’s probably like, “What is this episode?”


0:10:47.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude. It doesn’t look good at all. That fluo… Oh, geez. Giving me eye cancer with that light.


0:10:53.7 Mike Vacanti: Actually… So, I just hope that we as a people can rectify the nine-to-five office lifestyle that is sucking the souls physiologically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally from hundreds of millions of people in the west. It’s not good.


0:11:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, is there anything that we wanna discuss today? Since…


0:11:19.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. What I was just discussing, I think.


0:11:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. [laughter] Cool.


0:11:24.1 Mike Vacanti: No, I don’t have anything on my list at the undisclosed location. Wanna dive into questions?


0:11:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, sure.


0:11:30.8 Mike Vacanti: Jordan doesn’t get his hype about ripping into corporate America as I do, because he didn’t have to serve his two years there.


0:11:39.0 Jordan Syatt: Thank God. I would not have functioned well in corporate America. That just would’ve been… You know me. That would’ve been the worst possible scenario for me to be in.


0:11:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, bro. Well, I wasn’t gonna bring this up, but why not? ‘Cause we talked about my new golf strategy last week.


0:11:54.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah.


0:11:56.0 Mike Vacanti: I shot a 36 on the front 9.


0:11:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that’s insane.


0:12:01.0 Mike Vacanti: I’ve never broken 40 on a 9 in my entire life. I’m not a good golfer.


0:12:04.8 Jordan Syatt: You are a good golfer.


0:12:06.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m not a good golfer, I’m just… For the amount of time that I’ve golfed, I’m not a good golfer.


0:12:11.0 Jordan Syatt: Man, 36 is wild.


0:12:13.1 Mike Vacanti: 3 birdies, 3 pars, 3 bogeys…


0:12:15.0 Jordan Syatt: Wild, wild.


0:12:16.8 Mike Vacanti: And then followed it up with a 46 on the back, which is much more my speed, but, yeah.


0:12:22.7 Jordan Syatt: Congrats.


0:12:23.3 Mike Vacanti: All right. Let’s get questions.


0:12:25.3 Jordan Syatt: Mike, what’s your body fat percentage? What feels best for you?


0:12:29.1 Mike Vacanti: What am I now, or what feels best?


0:12:31.0 Jordan Syatt: Both.


0:12:32.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m 12-ish right now. What feels best physically or mentally?


0:12:40.0 Jordan Syatt: In general. You could talk about all of it. You could talk about what feels best physically, what feels best mentally, what feels best spiritually, whatever you want.


0:12:49.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think there’s a spiritual component to body fat percentage, for me at least. I like that you went there though. Probably around this 10 to 12 feels best physically. And probably similar mentally, slash “on the lower end of the range,” probably. But, you know, I… Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just being able to eat enough food and not restrict feels best from a performance perspective. Doing anything, whether that’s strength training or doing like longer distance cardio or playing sports or golfing or anything, if you’re in a deficit and quite lean, I at least am in a fatigue more doing those things than being fully glycogen loaded up and not in a deficit. But…


0:13:49.0 Jordan Syatt: That makes sense.


0:13:50.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. 10 to 12 single digit… Obviously being leaner looks better without a shirt as a dude, but you look better in clothes with a little more body fat, right? If you’re natural…


[overlapping conversation]


0:14:07.0 Jordan Syatt: Mm-hmm, more full. Yeah.


0:14:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, more full… Yeah, exactly. Chest, shoulders, arms, back. And it’s just more enjoyable getting to eat.


0:14:16.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. I think I’m probably around like 18.


0:14:20.0 Mike Vacanti: You think so?


0:14:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. If I was doing the thing that most people do when they underestimate, I’d say 15. But no, I think I’m probably closer to 18 right now. But I think my ideal is around 15. Around 15 is where I feel best.


0:14:37.7 Mike Vacanti: How much do you weigh right now?


0:14:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Like 157.


0:14:40.3 Mike Vacanti: And what did… Sorry, now I feel like I’m blowing up your spot. Did you start the mini cut at 157?


0:14:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I haven’t really been… You know?


0:14:51.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh. Are you not document… Like doing daily scale on Instagram and all that…


[overlapping conversation]


0:14:55.0 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, no. I haven’t officially…


0:14:56.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I thought this was one of your times where you were doing that.


0:15:01.1 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, no, no.


[overlapping conversation]


0:15:01.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re not doing it as intensely? Ah, okay.


0:15:03.3 Jordan Syatt: No, no. I’m more just like… I’m just cleaning up. I’m not eating shit right now, and I’m just eating better overall. I am tracking and I’m weighing just to get an idea of where I’m at, but… Yeah.


0:15:21.0 Mike Vacanti: Cool. So 157 and 18% on the conservative side.


0:15:26.1 Jordan Syatt: I might be leaner. I might be a little bit leaner. But after that Martin Berkhan, when I was a kid and I was like, [laughter] “Hey, I think I’m this,” and he’s like, “Actually, you’re this,” I was like, “Oh, okay. Now I go the other way.” I maybe overestimate a little bit, but we’ll say I’m 18. I think I’m between like 14 and 16, is where I’m like that ideal range for me mentally, physically, which I think that was… It’s funny, I was talking to my buddy David about that. I think as a personal trainer, as someone who’s in the industry, it took me a while to get to a point where I was like, “Yeah, I’m actually… My ideal is higher than what the industry might say is ideal,” which I think was very difficult for me; where I think a lot of people in the industry feel like they need to be.


0:16:15.2 Jordan Syatt: I used to feel like I needed to be way leaner all the time because I was in the industry or because I’m in the industry. And it took, I don’t know, a huge percentage of my time in the industry in figuring out who I am and what I want to help people with for me to realize, “Yeah, you know what? Being lean is actually, not only is it not ideal for me, but me trying and spending so much of my time to be leaner for the sake of being leaner when it’s actually not improving my health, is actually not good for people who are following me either.” Right? Where it’s like, there’s obviously that balance where I don’t want people who are morbidly obese to be like, “Hey, I can stay here,” ’cause obviously not. But it’s finding the balance of, “Hey, this is where I’m healthiest mentally, physically, and emotionally,” but also physically is a part of that. So, my physical health wouldn’t get better exponentially by going from 15% to 12%. It’s not like that would be the change in my health, and the potential drawbacks mentally and emotionally might actually cause more health damage than the positives of getting lower body fat.


0:17:32.2 Mike Vacanti: And that’s a point that most people don’t consider and most coaches don’t consider: Is that it’s not just blood work, it’s not just physical health, but it’s also how you’re doing mentally and emotionally. I think it’s pretty… And you used the word “your physical health wouldn’t get exponentially better,” which is obvious, right?


[overlapping conversation]


0:17:53.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, yeah.


0:17:56.1 Mike Vacanti: Going from 35% body fat to 18% body fat, that is going to have a drastic impact on your physical health. Going from 18% body fat to 12% body fat might give you… And you’re not even 18%. Let’s just say going from 16% body fat to 12% body fat might give you a marginal in improvement in your physiological health. But if you’re struggling to get there, if it’s giving you issues with food, if you’re constantly thinking about food, if it’s dominating your mind space and hurting your life, is it worth it for a 1% or a 2% improvement in some physiological markers? No. I mean, clearly, no for you, and no for many people.


0:18:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:18:46.0 Mike Vacanti: But it’s important to weigh all the pieces of the puzzle, not just… You know, I think of that billionaire dude who’s investing $2 million a year into optimizing his longevity.


0:18:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Guy’s just an idiot. Yeah.


0:19:01.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, by the way, I think he’s probably brilliant in a lot of ways, but a lot of what he’s doing with his experiment…


[overlapping conversation]


0:19:04.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


0:19:07.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s like… [chuckle] And that’s his thing, right? I don’t think he’s trying to say everyone should be doing this. He’s treating it like an experiment because he’s interested in it. But…


0:19:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Is this the guy who says he can… Literally, is trying to live forever, he just won’t die?


0:19:23.0 Mike Vacanti: I believe so.


0:19:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s… Come on.


0:19:25.2 Mike Vacanti: I actually saw a really good meme the other day that showed him. And I’m actually not ragging on him, because I think what he’s doing is interesting. I’m not into it at all, and a lot of the measures he’s taking, I think, are incorrect. But it was [chuckle] “Bryan Johnson, 46…” and doing a picture of him shirtless or in his underwear or something, doing everything he can to optimize his health. And he avoids sunlight. He doesn’t look amazing by our aesthetic standards. And then there’s a picture of Hunter Biden in a suit looking pretty good. [laughter] And it’s like, “Hunter Biden, 56 years old, crack cocaine.” [laughter] And then… It was really funny. Now, does that mean that you should do cocaine…


0:20:13.0 Jordan Syatt: No, obviously. It’s just funny.


[overlapping conversation]


0:20:13.8 Mike Vacanti: No, of course, not. Of course, not.


0:20:15.2 Jordan Syatt: The internet wins. That’s just funny.


0:20:17.8 Mike Vacanti: But yeah, that’s why there’s individual variation in what your goal body fat percentage should be or what your “set point” or “range” is. Because everyone’s a little different. Everyone feels different physiologically and mentally at different levels. And as long as you’re in a reasonably healthy range, that’s amazing, right? You don’t need to be 7%. You don’t need to be shredded outta your mind year round to be healthy. And that’s a message that I think has resonated more in the last five plus years in the fitness industry, or at least our corner of it, compared to 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. Having more realistic standards and expectations in terms of what you’re gonna look like walking around day-to-day as a non-drug user and someone who’s not just in a deficit 12 months out of the year. Yeah, which is great, but we need to balance that with what our actual bigger problem is on a population level, which is 70-plus percent of Americans are overweight or obese.


0:21:23.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:21:23.1 Mike Vacanti: So, it’s the unrealistic standards balanced against this preposterous “Health at Every Size” movement where there’s the golden middle, the golden mean, as Aristotle once put it.


0:21:41.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I was thinking, from the perspective of as a coach for other coaches, I know there are many coaches… Or I’ll say this from my perspective rather than putting words in other coaches’ mouths. When I was younger, I wasted a lot of time and energy trying to look a certain way, because I thought that that’s what I needed in order to be a successful coach. Not because it was actually healthier for me, not because it was actually better for me, but because I would do things because I thought if I was going to be a successful coach, that’s what I had to do. Ironically, business has improved. The more I’ve leaned into what’s best for me… Which, what’s best for me is obviously not being shredded but also not being obese. Right? It’s being a healthy body fat percentage, living a healthy life.


0:22:37.1 Jordan Syatt: I’ve also found that it really does depend on your target market. If my target market was physique competitors, oh, I would be very… I would be broke. I would have no clients, because physique competitors look at me and they’re like, “What? Are you serious? There’s no way.” Whereas people who are everyday moms and dads and just regular people who look at physique competitors and are like, “I don’t wanna look like that.” The people who look at the physique competitors are like, “I would never wanna look like that.” That’s who, number one, I’m trying to help, that’s who I wanna help. I think especially if you’re a coach and you’re in the industry, oftentimes you’ll judge yourself by the physique competitor standard, even if that’s not the standard that you are interested in being in. You don’t even wanna serve that community, so you should stop judging yourself by that standard. Not to mention, I think that… I don’t think. That is also incredibly unhealthy.


0:23:39.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny, when you get to that… You’re standing on stage… I was just talking about this the other day. It’s so funny to me. You and I have spoken about how bodybuilding, physique competing, it is a sport. We think it’s a sport. It’s the only sport that you are actually at your worst when you’re competing, in terms of your physical preparedness. Right? You look good, but in terms of your energy, your at your lowest. Your strength, you’re at your lowest. Your conditioning, you’re at your lowest. Every other sport, when the day you compete, you’ve peaked. It’s like everything is the best it should be. It’s the complete opposite with bodybuilding. It’s very interesting.


0:24:25.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it’s performance versus aesthetics.


0:24:28.0 Jordan Syatt: Right, right.


0:24:29.1 Mike Vacanti: Because in every other sport you’re performing on your…


0:24:33.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct.


0:24:34.9 Mike Vacanti: On your day, on the day of the competition. Whereas you’re performing… Basically in bodybuilding, you’re performing every day leading up to the competition. And on the day of the competition, sure, you’re pumping up backstage, but the performance is standing and flexing.


0:24:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Yes. It’s your body. How it looks.


0:24:53.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.


0:24:54.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:24:54.8 Mike Vacanti: Did you ever see the movie Oppenheimer?


0:24:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m glad you reminded me. I have not. And I really, really, really wanna see it. Have you seen it?


0:25:03.1 Mike Vacanti: We watched. It’s a three-hour movie. We watched two-plus hours last night. We’re gonna finish it tonight. But I wasn’t that excited about it. When it was launching it was this big Oppenheimer versus Barbie, I was like, “I’m not interested in either of these movies.” I don’t think there’s been a good movie made in the last six years minimum period.


0:25:25.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.


0:25:27.8 Mike Vacanti: And then when it came out, my brother-in-law and a couple friends saw it and said it was slow and basically didn’t live up to the hype. And so I just wasn’t… I wasn’t gonna see it. Over two hours in, I think it’s really good. I’ve enjoyed it a lot.


0:25:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Really?


0:25:44.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Mm-hmm.


0:25:47.7 Jordan Syatt: What about it are you liking?


0:25:49.7 Mike Vacanti: Stuff that you would like: The history, seeing his life before he started working on the bomb.


0:26:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Yep.


0:26:03.8 Mike Vacanti: He was loosely affiliated with the Communist Party, the people who he was hanging out with. It was interesting, and to think, okay, he was doing this in 1924 with everything that was going on in the world. He was doing this in 1928 with everything going on in the world. Just talking about what’s going on in Germany in the 1920s, what’s going on with Russia in the 1920s. It was interesting, and the dialogue’s very good. Yeah. I’m not into the theatrics of it. So, the bomb and the cinematography are great, but I don’t really care.


0:26:42.4 Jordan Syatt: What do you mean? Like the theatrics of…


0:26:47.9 Mike Vacanti: So, think about every Christopher Nolan movie. Think about Interstellar. Think about Dark Knight. I’m trying to think of movies that just have big grandiose scenes and cool camera work and loud noise, and just cinematography.


0:27:07.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, explosions and stuff like that?


0:27:09.0 Mike Vacanti: There’s that, which I know people like, which is why many people wanted to see it in the theater, but that isn’t necessarily something I’m watching for. But we’ll see. There’s 40, 45 minutes left. I’m interested how they close it out.


0:27:23.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s less about the theatrics and more about the actual story and the people involved and their history. That’s what you’re more interested in?


0:27:30.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s what I have enjoyed, yes.


0:27:32.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And you’ve enjoyed it more than you thought you would based on what you knew of Oppenheimer and that?


0:27:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Yes.


0:27:38.4 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. All right. I’m gonna try and watch that this weekend then. I’ve been meaning to watch that, so, yeah, that’s definitely right up my… I wanted to see it in theaters, but it was like, I wanted to see it in IMAX, but it was sold out for the entire time. And I even was gonna go to a 6:00 AM showing and it was sold out. Yeah, I need to see that.


0:28:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Watch it.


0:28:00.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Here’s an interesting one. Do I need to do the inner/outer thigh machines, you know, that Good Girl, Bad Girl machine? Or skip them and do RDLs, squats, etcetera? This is an interesting topic, and I think it highlights a false dichotomy within the industry. Especially when you and I were coming up in the industry, people were like, “Never do those machines, they’re stupid, da, da, da, da.” What do you think? Do you think they’re worth it? Do you think they’re not worth it? What are your thoughts?


0:28:35.1 Mike Vacanti: I think they’re worth it based on personal experience and based on going basically my entire life not touching that machine. Because I can do a compound movement that is gonna allow me to hit these same muscle groups, and it’s more effective, more efficient, I can load it better. I don’t need these. I think that’s probably more correct than a group of people who never did any kind of hinging pattern, any kind of RDL, any kind of free weight squatting, only did machines and swore by the Good Girl, Bad Girl. I think only doing free weight compounds is more right. But what I have found is the combination of free weights and machines using all of the equipment we have available to us is best. And specifically, because the question is about the adductor abduction machine, I found an insane imbalance that I have with adduction. I can more or less rack that machine to use the “Dean Bumbaca calf raise” terminology, where he would rack the calf raise in high school [laughter] and not do any other movements. [laughter] I was very proud of that.


0:30:04.1 Mike Vacanti: The external rotation, the glute work, the abduction, no problem. I tweaked… I always assumed it was a groin, playing hockey and then playing flag football in college multiple times could have been an adductor, but I assumed it was my groin. When I recently tried the adduction, so the good girl, when you’re squeezing your thighs in together on that machine, I could barely do any weight legitimately like three plates. And not “three plates” as in 315. Three plates like 30 pounds on the stack.


[overlapping conversation]


0:30:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.


0:30:48.1 Mike Vacanti: And over the course of a number of weeks, was able to just add 10 or 20 pounds per week, but improve my range and strength on that movement pattern felt really good. So, I got a little off track. But both: Free weights plus machines, optimal.


0:31:03.2 Jordan Syatt: I think that was perfectly on track. I completely agree. I think one of the greatest errors in modern-day strength training, and when I say “modern-day,” I mean when you and I were coming up, I think it’s less like it now, I think this type of stuff is more acceptable now. But when you and I were coming up, we were always taught compounds train everything. You don’t need to do anything else. If you’re doing compounds, you’re good. Squats, deadlifts, presses, you don’t need isolations. I think it’s one of the greatest harms that the industry has done in modern times: Is making it seem like compounds is all you need, and isolation is worthless and a waste of time. It just, it infuriates me. And it’s so wrong. It’s wrong to think that…


0:31:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Number one, you’re training the muscles in a completely different format. You’re training them through different ranges of motions. You’re training ’em through different loading patterns, through different vectors. Your adductors are training through one plane of motion and one loading pattern in one vector when you do squats and deadlifts. It’s a completely different way of training them when you do them on the adductor/abductor machine. It’s completely different. And I think it’s incredibly helpful, incredibly beneficial. The good news is you don’t need that machine. For example, if you wanna train your adductors, you could do a Copenhagen plank as another form of training your adductors. You could do a pulsing Copenhagen plank if you wanna train through that range of motion as it adducts and abducts. This is one of the reasons I’ve really enjoyed doing the middle split work ’cause I’m training my adductors in that capacity.


0:32:43.0 Jordan Syatt: There are so many ways to train them and isolate them. And especially coming from your background as a hockey player, knowing these groin issues, these adductor issues, that would diminish significantly if people actually strengthened those muscles in that isolated capacity. I think it’s incredibly helpful and important, both from an athletic performance perspective as well as an aesthetic perspective. And an injury prevention perspective. From all of it. It encompasses everything. I think it’s unbelievably important. And anyone who understands injuries will also know that overuse injuries will happen if you’re just only training one movement pattern, you’re neglecting others. So, it’s better to train through a variety of movement patterns and load vectors so that you… I don’t like to use the term necessarily “bulletproof,” but this way you give yourself an opportunity to be strong throughout all ranges of motion and all movement patterns rather than just in one sagittal plane. It’s super helpful. So, yeah, I love that machine. I literally, for a while I was thinking about getting it from my home gym, and I was like, “I don’t think I can justify that space yet. I’ll just do Copenhagen planks for the time being.” [laughter]


0:33:56.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That would be a crazy investment for a home gym because it’s not multi-use, right? You can only do two exercises on it. [laughter] It’s huge, and it’s expensive.


0:34:07.4 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And if you have a limited space, it’s just not even on the top. It shouldn’t be in the top 100 pieces of equipment you buy first. [laughter]


0:34:19.8 Mike Vacanti: All right. We’ll leave it off there. We got a mentorship Q&A. Sorry for the short one, but every week, even from remote locations with fluorescent light. So, please like if you’re watching on YouTube. We appreciate you watching, listening. We’ll be back next week Tuesday. Anything else, Jordan?


0:34:37.4 Jordan Syatt: Thank you very much. Have a wonderful week. Talk to you soon.

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