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In this episode, we discuss more research around strength training and depression, the new meaning of “raw dogging,” how to overcome a plateau, what to do if you lose your period from dieting, and much more.

 

We hope you enjoy this episode and if you’d like to join us in The Online Fitness Business Mentorship you can grab your seat at https://www.fitnessbusinessmentorship.com

 

Thank you!

-J & M

 

Effects of resistance exercise training on depressive symptoms among young adults: A randomized controlled trial – https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016517812300272X?via%3Dihub

 

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You can download a PDF version of the transcript here

 

Or you can expand to find the full episode transcription below:

 

0:00:11.8 Mike Vacanti: I got something to say here, Jordan.

 

0:00:12.0 Jordan Syatt: Let’s hear it.

 

0:00:14.6 Mike Vacanti: Last episode sucked. We were at an undisclosed location. I was not properly prepared. I just wanna say one thing to the fans and everybody, PT podcast nation. I’m sorry. Extremely sorry. We were hoping for a streak of dominant podcasts. That was my goal. Something that PT pod has never done before, but I promise you one thing, a lot of good will come from that shitty episode last week. You will never see another podcaster in the entire country podcast as hard as I will for the rest of the season. And you will never see someone push his cohost as hard as I will push my cohost the rest of the season. And you’ll never see a team of podcasters podcast as hard as we will podcast the rest of the season. God bless.

 

0:01:00.1 Jordan Syatt: I wonder who’s gonna know what that’s from. That was amazing.

 

0:01:03.6 Mike Vacanti: Leave a YouTube comment if you know the reference, Jordan, how are we doing?

 

0:01:07.3 Jordan Syatt: I just watched that clip for the first time immediately before this. Did you have the script? Did you write that down so you could read off of it?

 

0:01:14.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

 

0:01:15.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that was great.

 

0:01:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, Hey, it was a bad podcast. It’s on me and we’re gonna turn it around. We got a lot of 2024 left. We’re gonna get after it.

 

0:01:25.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And I said the wrong name of my coach. Daniel Yores just DM me and be like, Hey bro, I know you said, it was Neil Magny, but you said his nickname is “hands of steel.” Yeah. My coach’s name is actually Geoff Neal. So I’m hoping the UFC fighter Geoff Neal doesn’t listen to our podcast. So he’s not like, “what the fuck,” but…

 

0:01:44.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s an honest, that’s an honest slip of the tongue. They have an overlapping name. Neil.

 

0:01:49.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Either way, last podcast wasn’t, wasn’t our greatest.

 

0:01:53.2 Mike Vacanti: It wasn’t greatest, but a lot of good is gonna come from this. I got some things for us, Jordan. Are you ready?

 

0:01:57.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude. I’m ready.

 

0:02:00.8 Mike Vacanti: We have, it’s not a new study. It’s a study from the fall of 2023, a randomized control trial.

 

0:02:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. Gold standard.

 

0:02:07.9 Mike Vacanti: I just heard about it for the first time. Just adding more evidence to the pile where people for, I believe it was eight weeks lifted weights. There were like eight compound exercises or eight exercises. Some were compound, some were isolation exercises twice a week, 25 minute sessions. So 50 minutes a week of workouts saw massive improvements in symptoms of depression. And these were all, I believe these were all people who struggled with depression, but not major depression, and the results were better in the strength training group than with medication alone. More evidence.

 

0:02:54.1 Jordan Syatt: Was there a strength training and medication group?

 

0:03:00.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know for certain.

 

0:03:02.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s still very interesting.

 

0:03:05.3 Mike Vacanti: We’ll link it because it’s been a week now since I looked at it, but we’ll link it in the show notes. But yes.

 

0:03:09.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s also, it doesn’t surprise me. Like it doesn’t surprise me. I don’t know about you. Like I’ve been through depressed periods in my life and how you feel after working out is fucking, it’s incredible, especially when you have a specific goal, like a performance based goal and you hit that goal, that achievement of, all right, I’m this strong now I accomplished this goal or whatever, dude, very few things in life are that rewarding. And to get that on a consistent basis through strength training, man, like I’m not surprised at all. I love that. I’m glad you found that study.

 

0:03:50.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. What you talk about there with performance-based goals is amazing. And the example that comes to mind for me is, getting to do your first chin up or hitting a PR on a certain movement, the micro workout to workout and week to week improvement in performance that is dopaminergic and is upward seeking is progressive overload. If you can add one rep week over week, if you can increase the weight two and a half pounds on each side, week over week, if you can do the same weight, but with more control and better technique week over week, those little improvement really help mentally and especially help when you’re not seeing progress in other areas, the scales not necessarily moving. You’re not gonna see visual changes week to week and sometimes month to month, depending on your goal and where you’re at. So having those markers, it could improvements in flexibility. If you’re taking progress pictures, if you’re doing a side split, for example, Jordan, and you have a picture from June, and then you have a picture from July and you can notice, “oh, I got a little bit more range here.”

 

0:05:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Or it’s like same range, but less RPE or lower RPE, or you could get in that range without as much of a warmup, right? That’s what you could get at the end of the session. But now at the beginning of the session, you’re in that range. But this is something that personally, I really attribute it to Louie Simmons. I don’t know who you would attribute it to. Obviously I have so much loyalty to Louie, but Louie used to get a lot of flack for saying you could hit a PR or you should try to hit a PR every workout. A lot of people used to hate on him for it. And when I would talk to him in person, he’d be like, “you should absolutely be able to hit a PR every workout.”

 

0:05:35.4 Jordan Syatt: He’s like, it doesn’t have to be lifting more weight. It’s like, you should be able to, in some variation, do better than you previously have done with that variation, whether it’s one more rep or a little bit better technique, or if you can lift more weight, fantastic. But there’s always a way you can improve. Sometimes maybe it’s a bad workout, bad day, bad sleep, whatever it is. Maybe there’ll be a day here and there where you can’t, but striving for improvement in literally every workout, it’s just, that’s the best thing you can do. And there’s no better feeling than when the cards are stacked against you, life isn’t going your way, but you can go in the gym and you can still find a way to improve. It’s like, it’s the best.

 

0:06:20.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, 100%. And we’re not saying, if you have a doctor and you’re on medication for something like don’t just dump it out and never talk to your doctor again and start lifting and take our bro advice here.

 

0:06:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, of course not.

 

0:06:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Like that’s clearly not where we’re going with this, but just more evidence in the benefits of strength training and exercise in general.

 

0:06:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, of course. Of course. And yeah, it’s just like, we’re not the most dogmatic of people. We try and be more balanced. And there has been a movement of exercise isn’t therapy or weightlifting isn’t therapy when the reality is there are many different types of therapy. And if we want a more nuanced discussion around it, exercise is one form of therapy. Talk therapy is a different type of therapy. Even within talk therapy, there are different types. There’s cognitive behavioral therapy. There’s different types of therapy. One of which is exercise. And it’s consistently proven to be among the most effective forms for people. Now it’s not the only one. And if it’s not working for you and you need another type, amazing, go for it. It’s we’re not saying there’s only one type, but from a, the perspective understanding and a more nuanced approach, exercise is one very viable form of therapy.

 

0:07:34.9 Mike Vacanti: Well said. Clips nation, Jordan, have you seen this new trend?

 

0:07:40.9 Jordan Syatt: Which one?

 

0:07:43.4 Mike Vacanti: Men are raw dogging flights.

 

0:07:46.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh dude, I have seen this. Did you and I talk about it? ‘Cause I’ve seen this. I don’t know if.

 

0:07:50.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think so.

 

0:07:50.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s so funny. Yeah. I’ve seen this a lot lately. Actually. Yeah.

 

0:07:54.1 Mike Vacanti: Do you wanna explain it?

 

0:07:55.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s amazing. It’s these dudes are going onto airplanes and during a long flight, they are not reading, not looking at their phone, not looking at their… They’re just sitting there. Sometimes they look at the flight path of the plane, but they just sit there and look at nothing for the entire flight. And…

 

0:08:18.4 Mike Vacanti: Just stare, stare at the seat in front of them.

 

0:08:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Did you see that this was actually in one of the episodes of Seinfeld?

 

0:08:24.4 Mike Vacanti: No.

 

0:08:25.5 Jordan Syatt: This is an episode. I forget the guy’s name, but in one episode of Seinfeld, Elaine is dating this dude and this dude is on the flight and he’s just staring and Elaine’s reading a book. This is obviously before cell phones or before like smartphones for sure. And Elaine is like, “Hey do you wanna read or like, do you wanna watch a movie?” And I think his name was Puddy. And he was like, he’s like, “no, I’m good.”

 

0:08:49.5 Jordan Syatt: And he’s just staring straight ahead. And she’s like losing her shit. She’s just like, “you don’t want anything? You’re just gonna stare.” And he’s like, “yeah, I’m just gonna stare.” And like…

 

0:09:00.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s a good impression.

 

0:09:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Clearly in her mind, she’s like upset because in his character is not an intelligent character. So in her mind, she’s like, all right, he’s just flatlining in there. He’s not, he has no brain waves going on, but I see this all the time now. And I’m like, oh man, that’s incredible. Just and they call it raw dogging it.

 

0:09:17.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

 

0:09:17.8 Jordan Syatt: Or they use the whole flight.

 

0:09:20.5 Mike Vacanti: Bringing the term raw dogging to mean something innocuous like that and just have it in like normal vocabulary is hilarious in and of itself, but also the practice in our overly stimulated social media society to sit there and you’ll see someone like just raw dog to flight to Singapore or just raw, like 11 hour flight, raw dog. And then they’ll have a before and after picture, dude, just sitting there, hands on the seat, staring at the, either the flight map or just the seat in front of them, not moving for the entire flight.

 

0:09:55.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s incredible.

 

0:09:55.6 Mike Vacanti: Do you think you could do it?

 

0:09:58.6 Jordan Syatt: Could I? Yeah, I think I could. I think the first, I think it would be incredibly uncomfortable. Yeah, I think it’d be incredibly uncomfortable. Obviously, I could do it if I needed to do it, but I would prefer not to. There are so many other things I would rather do.

 

0:10:14.8 Mike Vacanti: Do you think you could do it if you didn’t need to do it?

 

0:10:16.3 Jordan Syatt: No.

 

0:10:16.4 Mike Vacanti: Like if there’s no money on the line, it’s not like, hey, gun to your head, you have to but…

 

0:10:21.2 Jordan Syatt: Or like if I was just in my head, I just wanna, if I wanted to prove to myself really badly, yeah, that could happen. But if there was no, if there was no real incentive, I probably no real like tangible incentive. I probably wouldn’t do it. No.

 

0:10:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, I think the tangible incentive is dopamine detox.

 

0:10:41.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yes, that makes sense.

 

0:10:41.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s down regulating what stimulation does to you.

 

0:10:45.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. My issue with that is. I’m still on my phone so much for work and for what I like need to be, and so obviously I’m on it way more than I have to. But and this is probably so stupid, this is probably like the exact like the kind of person who’s saying, oh, yeah, I’m waiting to work out until I’m healthy or something. But it’s like my idea is wait until I’m at a point in my life where I don’t need to be on my phone as much and then I can really sort of take that, do that and use it less. But for me, it’s like a drug and I can’t get away from the drug or I’m still on it all the time for work anyway. Does that make sense?

 

0:11:30.2 Mike Vacanti: It makes sense that you’re saying it. Yeah, definitely.

 

0:11:34.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Might just be a stupid excuse.

 

0:11:37.3 Mike Vacanti: No, not a stupid excuse. I think it’s a perfectly reasonable excuse.

 

0:11:40.2 Jordan Syatt: Reasonably stupid excuse.

 

0:11:42.6 Mike Vacanti: No, no, but it’s also hard to divorce real meaningful work on your phone from shenanigans on your phone.

 

0:11:52.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, for sure.

 

0:11:53.6 Mike Vacanti: And if you’re using it to create content like you are on nearly a daily basis and do many other things, then you’re right there where you also have access to scrolling and everything else. So it’s yeah, it makes sense. You’re on a six hour flight and you have work that needs to be done on your phone. You’re just not gonna just sit and look at the chair in front of you.

 

0:12:12.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously you could do it. I feel like you do that every day.

 

0:12:18.7 Mike Vacanti: No, I definitely don’t. I go through streaks in my life where I’m better and most streaks I’m worse. But no, it’s very hard.

 

0:12:27.7 Jordan Syatt: Are you gonna do that on your next flight?

 

0:12:29.9 Mike Vacanti: Probably not. I could do it if it was a challenge, but not if I’ll probably watch Gladiator or Braveheart, you know.

 

0:12:37.7 Jordan Syatt: Did you consider doing it on your recent ’cause you just had a bunch of flights over the last few weeks, do you consider doing it or had you not heard of it yet?

 

0:12:42.2 Mike Vacanti: I considered doing it when I was already two thirds of the way through my flight on the way home when I was like burnt out, had been eaten, crappy, was under slept, not in a great. And I did it for about eight seconds. And I was like, I’m not doing this right now. And I had downloaded movies on my phone and just watched part of one of those.

 

0:13:02.7 Jordan Syatt: So funny. We were outside this morning. Not outside. I was outside my office in the living room and we were trying to figure out what we were gonna what show we’re gonna put on for my daughter to watch in the morning, just ’cause we’re gonna have like a little movie morning, July 4th, just hang out, relax after we did some dancing. And I was like, oh, why don’t you put on like Cinderella or something like that? You know, like the old school Cinderella, the old, old, old, the classic.

 

0:13:27.6 Jordan Syatt: And my wife says that one’s a little bit slow. I don’t think she likes that one. I was like, put it on. Like we like because the kids shows nowadays are so fast, they change so quickly. I was like, no, no, no, no. Like if it’s slow, that’s a good thing. We need to keep it slow, not flashing, not changing scenes, da da da, like, and so we put it on and it was it, dude, it’s so crazy to see how much slower those movies are. And but she started to really enjoy it. At first, it wasn’t as exciting, but like she started to really enjoy it once she sat down and got into the story.

 

0:14:02.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s really smart. That’s really smart by you guys, because… Yeah, just ’90s Disney was different in in many ways, but speed being one of them and compared to, it’s almost like a treat. It’s like a fun, enjoyable thing. You don’t just get to sit there and watch movies all day, every day as a kid.

 

0:14:19.4 Jordan Syatt: Right. Right.

 

0:14:20.4 Mike Vacanti: And so when you get to watch one, it’s something special. And for it to be, almost like the lowest effective dose of something.

 

0:14:30.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

 

0:14:30.7 Mike Vacanti: So you’re getting the enjoyment without having it be a 2019 vlog style video where it’s just changing scenes every four seconds.

 

0:14:43.8 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been trying to look at some of these children’s shows and I try and see how many scenes last longer than 30 seconds just as an idea of like, okay, like how long before they this scene changes dramatically before it’s like a jump cut. Man, almost all these shows jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, jump. And so then I did it with with Cinderella or, no, this morning it was Beauty and the Beast. And…

 

0:15:13.0 Mike Vacanti: Classic.

 

0:15:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Man, those scenes last a long time. They’re like 12, 15, 20 second scenes before it cuts somewhere versus now all these shows on TV are like quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. It’s really it’s scary.

 

0:15:26.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it is. And going further, well. Probably going further that way, although I think there will be a pushback against it as well, which we’re seeing in some of the long form YouTube like low editing less cinematic style videos in fitness specifically. But I actually I was like 10% embarrassed that I was doing this, but I watched The Lion King on a flight not that long ago.

 

0:15:52.8 Jordan Syatt: The original?

 

0:15:54.2 Mike Vacanti: The original.

 

0:15:55.9 Jordan Syatt: So, good.

 

0:15:56.3 Mike Vacanti: Which is an unbelievable movie, not only in terms of what you’re describing right now, but also an archetypal hero’s journey.

 

0:16:08.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Lion King is amazing.

 

0:16:09.2 Mike Vacanti: They don’t make them like that anymore. And down to…

 

0:16:11.4 Jordan Syatt: Everything about it is…

 

0:16:11.6 Mike Vacanti: All the voice actors are unbelievable.

 

0:16:14.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

 

0:16:16.7 Mike Vacanti: The artists who did the drawings of like the characters faces and expressions are so good. It’s…

 

0:16:24.5 Jordan Syatt: The music.

 

0:16:25.2 Mike Vacanti: The music is amazing, yeah.

 

0:16:26.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

 

0:16:27.4 Mike Vacanti: Just, there’s so many themes in there, too. Right. Like responsibility and everything the light touches is your responsibility as king, like the good king. Then you have the evil uncle. You have the the nihilistic, Peter Pan paradise with Timon and Pumbaa.

 

0:16:47.9 Jordan Syatt: Pumbaa, yeah.

 

0:16:50.2 Mike Vacanti: Who are out there running around and they’re vegans.

 

0:16:50.3 Jordan Syatt: They are so funny.

 

0:16:51.8 Mike Vacanti: And it’s like there are so many themes that are relevant today that there’s isn’t… I don’t wanna say there isn’t fiction like that today, but it was much more mainstream at that time than it is now.

 

0:17:07.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Those are the classics. Those are now I don’t see it nowadays. I don’t see it at all. It’s much like it’s short stories. It’s quick fixes, quick hits of dopamine. Like it’s there’s not like that… You create a real relationship with the characters in that stuff in a way that I don’t think that we have nowadays. And even there have been many actors. I think Mark Wahlberg has spoken about it, about how movies nowadays, like it is very different. And so much of it is based on how they make money ever since.

 

0:17:39.5 Mike Vacanti: True.

 

0:17:41.7 Jordan Syatt: ’cause before when a movie would come out first, they would make a lot of money in the release in the theaters and then they would make, there would be a delay. Then there would be a lot of money again to be made, whether it’s on VHS or DVD. But now that theaters don’t make as much and also it’s more streaming services, the way they get paid is very different.

 

0:18:01.5 Jordan Syatt: So now these producers and directors are… They’re literally making movies in a way that to maximize the amount of money that they’ll make. I don’t even know how to articulate it, but maximize it from the streaming service, which is oftentimes they’re just going for whatever people think they wanna see rather than what they might need to see. It’s yeah.

 

0:18:21.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Which means remakes of previously popular movies and movies with massive built in audience. So if a book becomes enormously popular, they know that they have this huge audience that will see the movie. They don’t wanna take the risk of not getting that back end or, especially I think Matt Damon talked about this, too, a few times.

 

0:18:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, is it Matt Damon? Yeah. It might’ve been Matt Damon, yeah.

 

0:18:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Probably Mark Wahlberg, too. But like you said, DVD was half of the revenue for actors getting that back end. And it’s just not worth the risk for studios to invest tens of millions plus into these Hollywood actors to potentially not get their money back on release.

 

0:19:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Especially now, because now and the actors are struggling, too, because now it’s less about how good of an actor you are and more about how big your audience already is, ’cause if you have a big audience already, then your your fans will come to see you. So actors are really struggling because they’ve been gonna school for this for years. They’ve been taking classes, they’ve been studying this. And then all of a sudden, someone who is a terrible actor but has a huge social media audience is taking their role. It’s really crazy.

 

0:19:34.9 Mike Vacanti: Have you ever told our podcast audience what you used to do on long solo road trips?

 

0:19:43.5 Jordan Syatt: We’ve definitely spoken about it before. We could talk about it again.

 

0:19:47.8 Mike Vacanti: I think there is, I think people should actually try this [laughter], because I think you probably acquired skills that were very useful for you in business.

 

0:19:58.6 Jordan Syatt: 100% I did. Yeah.

 

0:20:00.1 Mike Vacanti: Or maybe there, maybe there’s a way to try it without annoying people as much, but do you wanna tell the story?

 

0:20:03.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean, well, some people weren’t annoyed, some people really enjoyed it. [laughter] but…

 

0:20:10.0 Mike Vacanti: Okay, true, true. I’m just thinking of myself If I got one that’s fair.

 

0:20:14.7 Jordan Syatt: But the challenge was to get someone like you to have a real legit conversation with me. But you’d probably be like, what the hell? Why are you wasting my time? [laughter]

 

0:20:23.7 Mike Vacanti: Tell ’em, tell ’em what we’re talking about.

 

0:20:26.3 Jordan Syatt: So when I was in college, I would have these seven plus hour drives to and from University of Delaware. So when I… My mom lived in Boston, so I’d go see her when I, whether it was Thanksgiving or whatever it was. When I would drive to and from school a couple times a year, I would have these really long drives and I’m not gonna, like, number one, we didn’t, I didn’t have a smartphone. I had a flip phone back then. And I’m not even, I’m not looking at my phone. So, and I had like CDs playing, but I… You know me. I need that dopamine [laughter] So I would get, like, I would call my friends and I would talk to people, but after, I don’t know, a couple of hours, you sort of maxed everybody out. [laughter] You can’t just call everybody on your phone list.

 

0:21:12.7 Jordan Syatt: So I forget how I came up with it, but I started calling random numbers. So I would dial a number. Like, that was close to one because if you just dial a random number, you don’t know if it’s gonna go to a real person. So I would like, if my number is like dah dah dah, dah dah dah I would dial my number, but then change like two numbers knowing that, okay, well this has gotta go to somebody. And then people would pick up and they’d be like, “hello?” And this is way before, like, now people won’t answer a number they don’t know, right. But people would always answer at that point. They’d be, “hello.” And I’d be like, “Hey, how’s it going?”

 

0:21:50.0 Jordan Syatt: And, they’d be like, “good… Can I help you?” And basically, like my goal was to have a legitimate conversation with a complete stranger that I didn’t know and get them to the point where we could have a conversation and learn about each other and have a full on conversation. That would be great for me because I could take up time on the road that I was really bored on. And also, like, it turned out to be definitely good because I learned strategies to immediately say hello and get someone on the phone and sort of hook them in and like have a real conversation with them. And I would say, got it to a point where it was probably like 70/30, 70% of people would hang up within the first minute. And 30% of people, I’d have like a legit, at least five minute conversation with.

 

0:22:44.1 Mike Vacanti: What would you say though? Like, “Hey, how’s it going?” And then would you be like, “I’m on, I’m…” Would you tell them “‘m calling random numbers, I’m on a road trip.” Would like…

 

0:22:53.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so what I would do is, at first, and this was not a good strategy, is I would be like, “Hey, listen, don’t hang up.” [laughter] Like, literally it’d be a would be like, “Hey, listen, don’t hang up. My name’s Jordan, I’m driving, dah, dah dah.” And then like, boom, they would hang up like, ’cause I would try and get it in before we started, before there was any conversing back and forth. Then I would go, I started being like, “Hey, how’s it going?” Almost as though like, they might know who I am and they’d be like, “good, how are you?” I’d be like, “I’m good. I’m just, I’m driving back from school, wanted to call and say hello.” And they’d be like, “I’m sorry, who is this?” And I’d be like, “this is gonna sound really weird.” [laughter]

 

0:23:36.1 Jordan Syatt: “My name is Jordan and I’m calling, I’m calling people, I’m calling numbers just to have a real conversation. So I’m just like, what’s your name? Like, tell me about yourself, dah dah dah dah.” Or to be honest, when I would say, “what’s your name? Tell me about yourself.” That would not get a good response. I would have to do the talking first. So I’d be like, “my name’s Jordan. I’m driving back to Boston from University of Delaware, I’m just calling people ’cause I’m bored on my trip. And I’m just like trying to have real conversation with people. I don’t know if you’re busy right now or not, but I’m like 21 years old. I’m a powerlifter. I’m just driving back from school, like, how’s your day going?” And then it was funny ’cause it was usually women, like probably older women between… Like when I say older, I don’t mean they’re old, but not 20-year-old or any. It was usually women between like 40 to 60 who would laugh and they’d be like, “oh sweetie, like, I’m good. How are you?”

 

0:24:29.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

 

[laughter]

 

0:24:31.4 Jordan Syatt: They would be like, “oh, this, like, he’s lonely” and we’ll talk.

 

0:24:35.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

 

0:24:36.2 Jordan Syatt: And so those were usually the ones who would talk. There were sometimes some younger guys who would be like, “oh, what’s up man?” [laughter]

 

0:24:43.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

 

0:24:44.9 Jordan Syatt: But like, it was usually women between probably 40 and 60. And we’d have, there were some times where I’d have like an hour long conversation with them.

 

0:24:51.7 Mike Vacanti: Wow.

 

0:24:52.1 Jordan Syatt: That was not the norm. But yeah, there were occasional ones where that would happen, but it was… I learned that if I did most of the talking first, rather than putting the onus on them to talk, it worked much better. So the first…

 

0:25:02.0 Mike Vacanti: Which is different from your strategy in other conversations?

 

0:25:06.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. With my other… Like if I’m doing a sales call or if I’m getting a client on a sales call, It’s almost always, but the difference is they’re…

 

0:25:14.8 Mike Vacanti: They know you.

 

0:25:15.0 Jordan Syatt: Expecting that call.

 

0:25:17.1 Mike Vacanti: Right.

 

0:25:17.7 Jordan Syatt: And they know me.

 

0:25:18.5 Mike Vacanti: Of course.

 

0:25:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Whereas with this one, it’s funny, there are this… And this is a separate topic, but a lot of guys get really nervous to go speak to women that like, that, Hey, maybe she’s really cute. I wanna get her number. And they’re like, what do I say? And it’s funny because the, what I would always tell my friends is if you talk to someone who is like with someone, whether they’re a long-term relationship, married, engaged, whatever. If you ask them, what’s the very first thing that you two said to each other? Very rarely will they actually remember. Like they will have… I’ve met a couple people, but almost never do they remember the very first thing they spoke about in person.

 

0:26:00.7 Jordan Syatt: And so it’s helpful to know that because most people, they really, they put too much emphasis on the very first thing they say when the reality is when you first start talking, your goal is just to make them feel comfortable. And most of making them feel comfortable is with you talking and your tone of voice, it has far less to do with what you’re actually saying. So when I would start being like, Hey, how’s it going? Yeah, my name’s Jordan. I’m driving back from school, I’m a powerlifter. And I was literally just like, they were just trying to get a feel for am I trying to sell them something is like, why… Are they trying to get information from me? And that’s why it didn’t work When I said, what’s your name? Tell me about yourself because then they would think, I’m trying to get information, when I give them legitimate real information about me, I calm their nerves. They don’t have anything going on in the background. Their kids aren’t screaming. And where they don’t have anything to rush to. If they actually have time to talk and listen, they become very comfortable. But yeah, on a sales call, they know it, they know who I am. They’re excited, they want to work with me. So that’s when I’ll let them talk first.

 

0:27:00.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s funny because your intro is the same now. “Hey, how’s it going?” Or “Hey, how are you?” Is like the classic, “Hey, how are you?”

 

0:27:06.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. “Hey, how are you?”

 

0:27:11.2 Mike Vacanti: You know What else that reminds me of? If you wanna just really quickly explain the 55/38/7 principle.

 

0:27:17.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh Man. Can you explain it? You, ’cause I freaking already forget it from Chris Voss.

 

0:27:22.3 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I don’t know. I just heard you talk about it once. It, it’s like, I just remember the 7% is what you’re actually saying. It’s like what people…

 

0:27:33.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

 

0:27:33.9 Mike Vacanti: When you’re speaking what matters, whether it’s in persuasion or like maintaining someone’s attention, it’s like what the content of what you’re saying is 7%. And then it’s this…

 

0:27:43.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

 

0:27:44.5 Mike Vacanti: How you’re saying it is Yeah. You can read it. You’re pulling it up right now.

 

0:27:47.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I just found it. Okay. So body language and speech patterns. This is by Chris Voss. So there’s the 7/38/55 rule, seven plus 38 plus 55 equals 100. It originally came up from a study of UCLA professors back in the 1970s. The three components of communication and the content… Are the content, the tonality, and the body language. 7% represented how much they liked the content. 38% represented how much they liked the tonality. And 55 represented present represented how much they liked the body language. So it that, it’s so funny. I didn’t even think about that. I’m glad you brought that up. If it’s on the phone, obviously body language is irrelevant. And if it’s 7% is about what you’re saying, 38% is about how you’re saying it. That’s if you’re in person on the phone, is probably way more about how you’re saying it and less, and less about what you’re saying. So yeah. That’s very, very interesting. I completely forgot about that.

 

0:28:49.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

 

0:28:50.3 Jordan Syatt: That rule. That’s exactly right.

 

0:28:52.7 Mike Vacanti: High energy, positivity, smile, good posture. Like when you’re in person and that’s 93% of perception.

 

0:29:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. On the phone it was actually, I wanna be careful with high energy. I had to really learn to tone down the energy and just appear calm. Like almost just like a friend would, like, “Hey, how are you?” Rather than being like…

 

0:29:15.4 Mike Vacanti: Sure.

 

0:29:15.8 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on? You know what I mean? So it’s…

 

0:29:18.7 Mike Vacanti: In that specific scenario when it’s a stranger.

 

0:29:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes. In that scenario. Yeah.

 

0:29:21.8 Mike Vacanti: Yes. In life high energy people win. Low energy people…

 

0:29:23.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes. For sure.

 

0:29:25.2 Mike Vacanti: Like it’s just, it’s clear as day.

 

0:29:28.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Without question. Without question. Yeah. But in terms of the tone you’re using making… And for whatever it’s worth, what’s also interesting is your body language impacts your tone. So I even noticed this just this morning, I was recording a video for Instagram, and I noticed that my tone was a little, it wasn’t harsh. My tone was almost bored with the video that I was recording. And so all I did is I just made sure I was like, all right, I’m gonna redo this take and I’m just gonna smile throughout the take while I do it just like a, not like a goofy smile, not a big, but like a light moderate smile. And then in the take that I, in the, when I was reviewing that take the tone was way better. It was much more excited and uplifting, which is what I was looking for early on in the video. And so it’s, your body language actually does make a big difference in how your tone comes across.

 

0:30:24.8 Mike Vacanti: Content creation. Strategy 101.

 

0:30:26.1 Jordan Syatt: I think, you know who talks about that. I’m pretty sure Dale Carnegie talks about that. I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure he spoke, he speaks about how when you’re smiling and you’re on the phone.

 

0:30:36.5 Mike Vacanti: I can hear it.

 

0:30:37.5 Jordan Syatt: You can hear it, you can hear their smile, which it, you absolutely can, for sure.

 

0:30:42.3 Mike Vacanti: I remember that, wanna fire up some questions?

 

0:30:47.7 Jordan Syatt: Bro I would love to fire up some questions.

 

0:30:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Let’s fire ’em up.

 

0:30:51.8 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know if you’re gonna wanna answer this one. Let’s see. This is the type of question that I feel like we would get in the mentorship, so let’s see if you wanna answer it or not. “If a client loses her period, despite slow weight loss and not being very lean yet, do you keep going and then after getting to the goal body composition work to get the period back? Or do you pause the weight loss, get her out of a deficit straightaway and continue dieting only after the period is back?”

 

0:31:22.4 Mike Vacanti: We can talk about this. It’s slightly out of my area of expertise, my default here is if a female client is losing her menstrual cycle during dieting…

 

0:31:35.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

 

0:31:36.7 Mike Vacanti: We’re gonna increase calories because, I’m not training someone for a bikini show. I’m not trying to put someone on stage. For basically all women who are consistently menstruating, who haven’t gone through menopause, a period is a sign of, a marker of good health. And if time in a fat loss phase has led to irregularities or losing her cycle, we’re bringing calories back up. Now, if this is a, like an ongoing issue, if this is something that has happened even at maintenance, if this is something that she has experience with, if this is something that she has worked with her doctor, gynecologist, endocrinologist on these issues before and there’s something else going on, and she has the green light to lose body fat, and maybe she… This is very rare, in fact, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen it, but if she was very overweight or obese and a reasonable calorie deficit coincided with her losing her cycle and doctor said, no, you should still focus on losing body fat even though you’ve lost your period. That would be a situation where I’d be okay continuing to have her in a deficit. But yeah, in almost all scenarios, loss of period means bring calories back up.

 

0:33:00.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean, I… And in this situation, I can only speak hypothetically because I’ve never had someone, I’ve never had a woman who was in a sustainable deficit who had a significant amount of weight to lose lose her period.

 

0:33:16.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

 

0:33:16.6 Jordan Syatt: I’ve never had that happen. And I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but for me personally, that’s never happened with any of my female clients. It has happened with female clients who were already relatively lean. They didn’t have to be shredded, but they were already relatively lean. And then maybe they ended up reducing calories more than I told them to. Oftentimes this would happen when they increased activity way more than I had them doing. So when they would be really doing more cardio than I told them to, for example, that’s really when it would happen. And that’s when we’d have to sit down conversation. I’d be like, I need you to be very honest with me. Have you been doing way more than I told you to? They’d be like, yes, I have. I’m be like, okay, now do we either increase calories or are you gonna actually stick to the program? Like I’m gonna stick to the program.

 

0:34:06.4 Jordan Syatt: And that almost that fixes it almost every time for that, for at least in my experience where, all right, you… There’s no reason for you to be getting 30,000 steps in every day. Like, that’s outrageous and you’re already lean and you’re in a calorie deficit. Like this is, it’s ridiculous. We take that person down to a normal activity level, all of a sudden their calorie, their period comes back, I completely agree with you. If someone is already is relatively lean and or if someone’s period stops, I’m stopping. I’m saying, go to the doctor and we’re probably gonna in bring calories back up to normal regardless. But it’s never happened to any of my clients unless they were do, they were going away overboard with cardio, severely reducing calories, and they were already relatively lean.

 

0:34:50.6 Mike Vacanti: And some coaches might be hearing you say, that’s never happened to any of your clients. And they’re like, oh, well that has happened to a couple of my clients. Like, what am I doing wrong? Or like, what’s different between what I’m doing and what Jordan’s doing? You, something I’ve noticed over the years with the specific demo of petite, pretty lean female client who wants to get leaner, you just say no, you’re like, no.

 

0:35:18.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. All the time.

 

0:35:19.3 Mike Vacanti: Like, no, you’re, you’re not a candidate for fat loss. Oh, you’re five foot one and 115 pounds and have some muscle and you wanna get down to 110. Like, you’re not phrasing it this way, but basically no.

 

0:35:36.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct. There’s Literally a woman in my DMs today and the Q&A probably today, we could probably find it, she was like, “I’m five foot, I’m 126 pounds. I wanna get to 122.” And I’m not gonna say like, that’s a, that’s a no for sure, but I am gonna be like, why 122? I’m gonna have a real conversation around why, why 122 specifically. What, how is that gonna change your life? And for that person, they might not look how they want to look. And that’s okay, but that doesn’t mean the answer is calorie deficit for that person. You have a five foot 126 woman who’s already very petite her calories are not gonna be able to be very high. You could put it into deficit. They’re going to be low inherently. I’d rather be in maintenance building muscle, do some body recomposition, building muscle, getting your steps in, take a longer have… Spend two to three years there building real muscle.

 

0:36:31.0 Jordan Syatt: Like that’s gonna be a completely different physique after three years without having to starve herself or without having to go into a serious deficit or radically increase activity. I think the key words there are two to three years. That’s the key words there. Like, body recomposition takes a long time, when you’re of a very short, very petite person, it’s way more difficult. So yeah, that’s… I have no problem telling people you’re not a candidate for fat loss and I’m not gonna work with you for fat loss. I’m happy to help you with something else, but fat loss is off the table for you.

 

0:37:04.7 Mike Vacanti: Good question.

 

0:37:05.3 Jordan Syatt: And just so everyone knows, that is a question that is very reminiscent of what we answer in the mentorship, obviously not just period related, we answer those as well, but like a huge portion…

 

0:37:19.5 Mike Vacanti: A lot of client questions.

 

0:37:20.0 Jordan Syatt: Of our mentorship is answering about clients client questions, how, what do you do in this situation? My client is struggling with this. Could be technique, could be nutrition, could be habits, lifestyle could be hormonal related, we have some people in there who are type one diabetics, who work with diabetics. We have people in there from all walks of life, men and women. So if you want a community of people who are not… They’re focused on building their business, but not just their business. They also wanna be better coaches. The mentorship is where it’s at. Like I don’t know any community that’s better than this. Obviously I’m biased, but I really feel like in the last year, maybe year and a half, we’ve really hit our stride with the mentorship. We’ve just got a crew in there that is just, they’re unbeatable.

 

0:38:03.0 Mike Vacanti: Agree.

 

0:38:04.0 Jordan Syatt: They’re an amazing group of coaches. They’re asking incredible questions. They’re really striving to be the best coaches in the world and the community in there. It’s amazing. So, if you want to join that group of people, that group of coaches, the link is in the description, but you don’t get these types of questions in really any other business program, other business programs are all about like how are we gonna maximize high-ticket coaching, how are you gonna assign more clients and work lessons.

 

0:38:37.1 Mike Vacanti: Cold DMs, funnels.

 

0:38:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. How about we just get you to be a really good coach, we’ll also teach you how to make great content, how to build your business, how to do your systems, but we’re also gonna make you a fucking phenomenal coach. And that’s what’s gonna drive your business.

 

0:38:51.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and we know that because that’s the feedback we get from people who have been in other programs before joining the mentorship.

 

0:38:58.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s exactly right.

 

0:39:00.0 Mike Vacanti: And at the end of the day, the very, very bottom line is becoming a great coach and helping your clients as much as you possibly can, is the best long-term business strategy.

 

0:39:08.8 Jordan Syatt: 100%

 

0:39:10.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s the right thing to do, and it’s the best for business, which is baffling that more people don’t see that.

 

0:39:19.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

 

0:39:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Or potentially they do and are just too short-term focused to now… Impatient would be the word I’m looking for there.

 

0:39:30.7 Jordan Syatt: I think that… Maybe it’s pessimistic. I think one of the main reasons they don’t focus on it is because they’ve never been passionate about being coaches, the people who come to the mentorship are coaches who are passionate about learning, even just now, we had Aspasia the other day being like I’m worried about letting my certification go out, and she knows how we feel about certifications, and a number of people in there echoed the same thing. I know you say we don’t need it, but I’m nervous about letting my certification run out. This was a great conversation around it, but all these people are coaches who wanna be the best coaches, whereas I think the people who are not passionate about being coaches, they’re passionate about trying to make money and get rich quick, it’s like that’s… And we’ve had those people apply and they don’t get in, that’s not who’s joining the mentorship. It’s, if you want to apply, you better be passionate about being a coach, ’cause we’re not fucking putting a cancer in our community of someone who doesn’t want to actually be a good coach.

 

0:40:31.4 Mike Vacanti: Adding the application was such a good business move by us for the mentorship.

 

0:40:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I think that was your idea. And it was genius. It was super smart.

 

0:40:34.4 Mike Vacanti: That wasn’t my intent to get credit right there, but just I’m thinking…

 

0:40:41.4 Jordan Syatt: Well you got it.

 

0:40:41.9 Mike Vacanti: Because in the past, we’ve had a couple people who will just say we’re more focused on purely the business side.

 

0:40:50.9 Jordan Syatt: High ticket. If you use the word, you wanna be a high-ticket coach, if you use that phrase, you’re out immediately. Sorry, not a good fit.

 

0:40:56.8 Mike Vacanti: “I’m a high ticket closer.”

 

0:40:57.0 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been getting so many of those ads on my Instagram feed, it’s insane, I got an ad today, I woke up at 4:00 AM today, not by choice, I just couldn’t go back to sleep, and I was death scrolling, and I got an ad from this guy who’s literally… And I see this a number of times from different people, his whole ad was, you need to stop making social media content. It’s dead. It doesn’t work, I have the right fit for you. And I’d go to his page and he’s still making social media content everyday, so I commented on the ad and I was like, You’re using social media for your ads to tell people… To tell coaches that making content doesn’t work, meanwhile, not only is this ad content, but you’re still making social media content every single day. So you’re not even practicing what you preach, it’s like you don’t even believe what you’re selling, it’s… Yeah, don’t get me started.

 

0:41:49.6 Mike Vacanti: I love the site of you waking up in the middle of the night, death scrolling and then leaving a raging comment at that time.

 

0:41:55.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I was so pissed, I was in such a bad mood.

 

0:42:01.9 Mike Vacanti: Well, that’s not fun, I’m sorry.

 

0:42:02.0 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s fine. All right, @courtskyler asked, “Why do plateaus happen?”

 

0:42:10.4 Mike Vacanti: Many reasons, or are we talking fat loss plateaus?

 

0:42:13.9 Jordan Syatt: I think we could go specific fat loss, we could also just go more broad, general why they happen? I’m happy to go any direction you want, I have in my mind the more broad. If you wanna go specific, do that.

 

0:42:26.8 Mike Vacanti: We can go more broad, I would say that the reason at a high level that most plateaus happen is lack of adherence over time, which is probably an unpopular answer, like a lot of people are probably thinking, metabolic slow down a lot of people are thinking, needing to adjust calories. Many people who see great progress when starting a fitness program and then eventually hit a plateau, were very adherent for their first eight, 12, 16 weeks on that fitness program, especially fat loss related, but it’s hard to keep that same level of intensity and consistency and adherence over the long run. And so if someone potentially was in a little bit too big of a deficit that isn’t sustainable forever, but it’s for a period of time, motivation is high, they just started paying for a service, so they don’t wanna be wasting their money, and they saw amazing progress in their first three months and then have started to plateau over months four, five, six. The answer is probably looking at the adherence of that individual in their first three months compared to their month four through six, rather than something technical like, Oh, you were on 2250 calories, and now we just need to reduce that amount for you to continue seeing fat loss progress.

 

0:44:01.5 Jordan Syatt: I think there’s something you said there, there’s something specific you mentioned that most people will overlook and not understand, and I’m gonna give people an opportunity before I say, just think about what Mike just said, maybe even rewind it. And guess what I’m about to pinpoint Mike just said that makes this so unique and specific to plateaus, I’m gonna give you one second, if you wanna think about it, rewind it. What Mike just said, I’m gonna give you the answer now, so if you wanna think about it for a second, pause. What Mike just said for a plateau is he specified months four, five and six as a plateau, this is very smart, and it’s so important, because he didn’t say three days, he didn’t say seven days, he didn’t say two weeks, he said months four, five and six at a plateau. And that for me is the most important part because, my answer was going to be that when plateaus happened because they’re normal, and I was thinking of the time frame of three days, five days, seven days, 10 days, two weeks, you were thinking of a legitimate plateau not what people think it is, but what it actually is, ’cause you’re in ISTJ.

 

0:45:26.6 Mike Vacanti: True.

 

0:45:26.7 Jordan Syatt: And you’re like, no, an actual plateau is months of no movement. And I think it actually… They both go together really well, ’cause if you have someone who thinks to plateau is three days, five days, seven days, and then they don’t see movement for seven days, even though that’s normal, well, then they’re no longer gonna be consistent or adherent to it, because I think it’s not working. So then that elongates the plateau and actually becomes a legitimate plateau because they’re not being adherent, but if over that three days, seven days, 10 days, 20-day time period where they weren’t seeing progress, if they had stayed consistent, there would have eventually been movement, they wouldn’t be in a plate anymore for three months straight.

 

0:45:26.8 Jordan Syatt: I think that the major issue is they think a plateau shouldn’t last three days, seven days, 10 days, 20 days, but it does. That’s normal, even if you’re being 100% consistent, three months now that over two or three months, you’re gonna see movement, the longest plateau I’ve ever really seen, whether it’s fat loss or strength or really whatever the longest is somewhere between four to six weeks, and that’s for someone who I know is being 100% consistent, they’re not bullshitting, and that’s also someone who’s at a very high level, someone who is a very high level, they’re very lean, they’re very strong. They’re not making any progress. For most people who are not at a high level, they’re not very lean, they’re not a high level of fitness, they’re not a high level athlete, generally plateau is three to four weeks at most. And then you’ll notice as long as you’re staying consistent, you’ll see movement, but that’s at most. So yeah, I think that’s the perfect combination of answers…

 

0:47:05.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and it’s such a good point that three days isn’t a plateau, five days isn’t to plateau, getting comfortable looking at seven-day moving averages with scale weight, understanding that rate of progress is going to slow down over time, understanding that the leaner you get, the harder it is to lose more body fat. If you’re 300 plus pounds and it’s been three weeks and the scale hasn’t moved at all, and you are 100% adherent, then we need to look at… Well, look deeper and adherence, we need to look at hunger levels, look at where your calories are relative to what your estimated TDEE is, and there may be a reason to reduce calories in that specific situation. But for someone who is more advanced scale weight can be in the same range for a number of weeks, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that anything needs to change.

 

0:48:05.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s exactly right.

 

0:48:05.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s the 4th of July. We’re podcasting in America’s birthday.

 

0:48:07.1 Jordan Syatt: All right, you know what. Let’s make a 4th July question. So someone asked, “would you still try to hit a protein goal on a day, you know you will be in a surplus I.e., today because July 4th.”

 

0:48:18.6 Mike Vacanti: Should we assume this person is losing fat or their goal is to lose fat.

 

0:48:23.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. We can assume that or we could just… Yeah, let’s assume that they’re trying to lose some fat should they hit their protein goal.

 

0:48:30.3 Mike Vacanti: And it’s July 4th, and they’re like, I’m not tracking today, I know I’m gonna be in a surplus, I’m gonna enjoy a barbecue, I’m gonna enjoy whatever is offered to me. It depends what their protein goal is, in my mind, and I’m going more technical here, because you could say one day doesn’t matter. That’s a perfectly legitimate take here, but if they are trying to hit a gram per pound of body weight, and they know they’re gonna be in a surplus on a holiday, then bringing that down to 0.5 to 0.7 grams per pound of body weight and having more carbs and fats, so they’re in a little bit less of a total surplus. Totally reasonable. Yeah, especially when you think about the types of foods that they want to be enjoying, if protein isn’t your favorite macro nutrient to be hitting, and you’d rather be eating… I don’t know, whatever. What do people eat on the 4 of July that isn’t protein? Pasta salad?

 

0:49:25.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s what I’m thinking.

 

0:49:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Chips.

 

0:49:27.6 Jordan Syatt: I thought everyone eats meat on 4th of July. My answer was gonna be like, This is the easiest holiday to hit your fucking, aside from Thanksgiving, it should be the easiest holiday.

 

0:49:37.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you’re grilling burgers, steaks.

 

0:49:38.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re grilling, yeah.

 

0:49:41.2 Mike Vacanti: Brats. Maybe, they’re big hot dog, brat people and they want that high fat, low protein, make believe meat. It doesn’t really matter. Yes, you can go, if it’s really hard for you to get your protein and you’d rather not be on this enjoyable day trying to make food choices where you hit protein and getting a shake in here and a shake in there, yeah, you can reduce protein for the day. In fact, I have a client who has a very difficult six to 12 weeks, literally starting a couple of weeks ago, and he was wondering if we’re… ’cause he’s in a slight surplus, he wondered if reducing his calories might help make it easier during this time where he can’t be has dialed with his nutrition, and what we actually did was we kept his calories elevated, but we dropped his protein from… He weighs 170-ish, we dropped it from the 170 to 175 range down to, I think, 130 grams of protein because that’s gonna make it easier for him.

 

0:50:39.1 Jordan Syatt: And it’s still scientifically backed.

 

0:50:39.2 Mike Vacanti: Exactly. It’s not going down to 30 grams per day, it’s not gonna be detrimental to his progress.

 

0:50:45.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I completely agree. A simple way to look at it is, there are some people who will fast one time a week, they just don’t eat anything for a whole day, one time a week, and they still do totally fine, as long as their protein is met the rest of the week, their strength training, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, if you miss your protein on one day, it’s not that big of a deal at all, it’s not a big deal at all, it’s just funny ’cause at least maybe I celebrate 4th of July different, but I’m like steaks all day, it’s just… We’re grilling steaks tonight. I had some Greek yogurt this morning. It’s super easy for me. I’m also, I’m not a hot dog guy, I know hot dogs are a big 4th of July food.

 

0:51:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Me neither.

 

0:51:31.3 Jordan Syatt: Steaks and burgers are really where it’s that. And for me, it’s just like I just like a steak. What are you having tonight?

 

0:51:35.8 Mike Vacanti: I wanna make one last real quick point technically, protein is muscle sparing, so higher protein levels are more necessary in a deficit than they are in a surplus, and that’s just one little layer I wanna add to this question. Because I forgot who I asked it, but they said, because I’m going to be in a surplus, can I reduce protein? Yeah, you actually have a more legitimate scientific reason to be on lower protein because you’re gonna have more total calories will be a less risk of losing muscle. You’re not gonna lose that much muscles in one day anyway, but if you wanted to be close to optimal.

 

0:52:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, if you wanted to ISTJ it and really be very precise.

 

0:52:15.2 Mike Vacanti: What am I doing today? We’re going over to my parents. It’s very rainy here. I don’t know if you can tell the lighting has changed through this podcast, but it got dark out. And so it’s not the greatest day, but we’ll go over there, we’re gonna grill, play some board games.

 

0:52:38.8 Jordan Syatt: What are you grilling?

 

0:52:38.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m not in charge of the meat. Probably steaks, we still have some of our cow that my family went in on it, which is… Those steaks are unbelievable. Maybe kebabs. A lot of fruit. A lot of berries. My mom often makes this fruit pizza desert with a pie crust and a cream cheese frosting and then all different blueberries on top. Yeah, that’s pretty legit. We’ll see if that’s there.

 

0:52:56.2 Jordan Syatt: Take a picture of that. I wanna see that.

 

0:52:58.7 Mike Vacanti: All right, I will. Steaks all day for you?

 

0:53:03.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s so funny. My wife loves red meat, she loves steak, and so ever since we got the grill, she also likes that, it gives her a few nights a week away from cooking, and I’ve really enjoyed it ’cause then I like getting out and just grilling. So I’m gonna go to the grocery store, I’ll get a workout in, and then I’ll go to the grocery store, pick up some steaks and grill, and…

 

0:53:27.9 Mike Vacanti: It sounds like a great day. Did you get your fire works yet?

 

0:53:29.1 Jordan Syatt: No, I’m not. It’s funny we were…

 

0:53:31.0 Mike Vacanti: You’re not going to?

 

0:53:32.7 Jordan Syatt: No, I was going to… You know what? What it was… I was ready to do it. My wife was not happy about it, she was like, it’s dangerous, dah, dah, dah. And I was like, I’m gonna do it anyway. The reason I’m not doing it is because last night our neighbors were setting off fireworks while our daughter was sleeping.

 

0:53:52.5 Mike Vacanti: Curtis freaked out. I got it.

 

0:53:53.5 Jordan Syatt: No, Curtis doesn’t care. Curtis is, he’s a maniac. He didn’t care at all. My daughter was sleeping, and I was just… My wife and I were both just like watching the monitor, being like, Is she gonna wake up, is she gonna wake up, is she gonna wake up. And I was like, I don’t wanna do this to other families, I don’t wanna be the person who’s… And I wasn’t mad. My wife was like should we call someone, I was like, No, let ’em have it, we’re not gonna be that the people who call cops on kids doing that, I just don’t wanna be that person. I want them to have their fun, but I was like, I don’t wanna add to the noise, and there are gonna be plenty of fireworks, it’s fine.

 

0:54:27.2 Mike Vacanti: And late. They do them until 11 o’clock at night at least around here.

 

0:54:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and it was July 3rd yesterday. I was like, what the fuck? Come on. But it’s a big thing here. They’ve been doing it for like a week.

 

0:54:40.6 Mike Vacanti: Really?

 

0:54:41.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, they’ve been doing it like almost every night for the last week, sometimes they’ll just do it randomly.

 

0:54:49.5 Mike Vacanti: I feel like the 3rd and the 4th are the most legitimate nights, and then maybe if you’re like cabin life, you can do it through the weekend, but if you’re lighting them off on July 8th at 11 o’clock at night on a work night, I’m…

 

0:55:04.1 Jordan Syatt: You’re a real douchebag.

 

0:55:05.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m really close to coming over there being like, What’s going on here? I’m trying to sleep. Great episode. Thank you for listening. We’ll be back next week, bangers only five star review would be much appreciated if you have one minute in your schedule today to do that for us. Have a great week. We’ll see you soon.

 

0:55:25.3 Jordan Syatt: See ya.

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