Episode 246: Jordan’s Current Instagram Strategy, New Study on Dangers of Sleep Deprivation, Life Advice for Your 30’s, and More…

0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.4 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:13.4 Mike Vacanti: Five month sleep regression, that’s what’s up.

0:00:16.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh geez. I’m sorry bro. That’s not fun.

0:00:19.0 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s not.

0:00:19.8 Jordan Syatt: It was better for two nights and then back to it. Oh man.

0:00:24.0 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh. Yeah.

0:00:25.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s a little bit of it. That’s like a little teaser. Just like, I’m good now, not.

0:00:28.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s exactly what happened. So, I understand why sleep deprivation is a form of torture in some countries.

0:00:39.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s actually crazy you bring that up because I had one topic today and it was sleep.

0:00:45.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh good, this is perfect timing. My vocabulary’s down by about 40%, my brain is not functioning properly. I just had a bottom five workout of the 2020s, and here we are.

0:01:01.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, on that topic, I’ve got something for you.

0:01:06.2 Mike Vacanti: Let’s go. I love it.

0:01:07.9 Jordan Syatt: So, I respond to fear. That’s when I make behavioral changes. Everyone knows I respond to fear. And also my sleep hasn’t been that good for a long time. I’ve been… I work out late. It’s just, haven’t prioritized it. So, part of the training for this security team that I’m on is there’s a lot of required reading books. And I’m not, just so you know, it’s audiobook. I’m not sitting down reading, I’m audiobooking it. And I’m reading this book right now by, it’s Lt. Col. Grossman and it’s a book called On Combat. It’s not what I would have expected at all. The first chapter is actually all about the likelihood of in a really high stress situation, like life or death type situation, the likelihood of like peeing and/or shitting yourself, which is something that’s just like not spoken about. And like there’s a lot of shame around that. In not just law enforcement and military, but in general, people are like, what the fuck? They don’t talk about it. And within the book he gets quotes from 9-11 survivors and just all these people who are like, they just never spoke about it because they felt like something was wrong with them. And he’s like the vast majority of people who go through it just shit themselves.

0:02:43.2 Mike Vacanti: I feel like you see that in war movies and…

0:02:45.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But he even said he’s like, you don’t see it as much and it’s like it’s not really spoken about in more. It’s like it’s maybe one of the people will do it but like…

0:02:54.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s very common. 

0:02:55.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s super common, super, super, super common. Anyway, the next section is about sleep and he cites this study. I have the details right here that I’m looking at, but I had to look up the study to make sure that, number one, it was accurate. And it was, the study he cited was correct and he cited it properly. And the details are actually wild. And so in this study, there were four groups of young military in an artillery division. And it was a 21 day study. They took four groups and they separated them into a group that got seven hours of sleep per night, six hours of sleep, five hours of sleep, four hours of sleep, and for 21 days. And they were testing each group on their speed, like their ability to load, reload, to aim, on their accuracy, how to handle concurrent events going on at the same time. And the group that slept for seven hours were about 90% to 95% at their top effectiveness throughout the 21 days. With each subsequent hour loss, so from the seven hours to six hours, by the end of that time frame, there was a 50% decline in effectiveness.

0:04:27.7 Mike Vacanti: From seven to six, there was a 50% decline.

0:04:29.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, from seven to six, there’s a 50%. And then from there…

0:04:32.9 Mike Vacanti: Relative decline.

0:04:35.2 Jordan Syatt: Relative, yeah.

0:04:35.6 Mike Vacanti: So from 90% to 80% effectiveness?

0:04:38.5 Jordan Syatt: They dropped to 50% effectiveness.

0:04:40.9 Mike Vacanti: Got it. Okay. All right, so absolute. Okay.

0:04:44.2 Jordan Syatt: And then, so by the time you got to the four hours of sleep per night, they were 15% effective. Which means that like, that essentially the study that the authors were like, you are now more dangerous as on four hours of sleep than you are effective. You are more dangerous to yourselves and to others performing on this level of sleep. And the analogy that the author used, I thought it was genius. He’s like, “Let’s say God forbid you need a lawyer. For some reason, one lawyer is going to cost you more money. But this lawyer is 95% going to win the case. Like 95%, you’re good. On the other hand, you have a lawyer that is way less expensive, but you’re 85% going to lose this case, like 15% effective, but it’s less expensive, so you can afford it.” He’s like, “Anybody would do anything they possibly could to get that more expensive lawyer. But this is essentially what we’re doing with law enforcement and military.” And he’s like, “And I get it, they’re understaffed. We don’t have as many. But sometimes they’ll use sleep deprivation as a punishment or they’ll allow a law enforcement officer to work a double or even a triple shift, which is 24 hours straight.”

0:06:03.7 Jordan Syatt: And he did note, or the study noted that the group that was on four hours of sleep, they were actually, net net, more effective in the first two to three days because they were able to get more off. But after those first two to three days, just radical decline. And so it was now, like… The training for this security is getting much more serious and it’s getting even more serious than I anticipated. I was like, oh, shit, like, this is real. And now I’m like, okay, I’m getting better with my sleep over the last week. Just like, I’m like, all right, I gotta do it. Because the fear of not being as effective in a… It’s not about being more productive in work and it’s not even about long term health. It’s about if, God forbid, I’m in a situation that I need to actually be effective, I need to have this sleep. So that’s what pushed me to actually, I actually gotta put my fucking phone down and go to bed.

0:07:10.3 Mike Vacanti: That makes a lot of sense. It took me a while to get there because I thought what you were saying was that this book and this study had taught you about the importance of sleep.

0:07:22.8 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, no. I just wasn’t scared.

0:07:25.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

0:07:30.1 Jordan Syatt: And he was going more. And there were other studies, but he was like, “Basically sleep deprivation is equally as bad as obviously depends on the level of sleep deprivation and level of alcohol. But sleep deprivation is like you’re driving under the influence essentially.”

0:07:45.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh yeah.

0:07:46.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s like you think you can protect yourself or community when you’re essentially under the influence, good luck. Absolutely not.

0:07:54.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m trying to think of an analogy, but my brain is completely fried. This is the most obvious thing ever to me. And the number of areas of life where sleep deprivation is harmful or the opposite. Getting adequate and high quality sleep is beneficial, just especially over any significant amount of time. You know, you only sleep a few hours, one night or two nights. That’s not the end of the world. But if that’s chronic, you’re in trouble.

0:08:30.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:08:31.3 Mike Vacanti: I’ve talked a lot on here about hunger cues and circadian rhythm health on an n=1. Like when my sleep is off, my diet is completely off. I have many clients who can relate. Many people in general, I’m sure listening can relate to. Like, I can’t think of an area of life where sleep does not have a direct impact. And good, I’m Glad you have one that struck a little fear in you?

0:08:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, big time.

0:08:58.2 Mike Vacanti: Because the health benefits, mental and physiological, are gonna be massive as a result of this change. So what’s the change?

0:09:07.0 Jordan Syatt: I mean, I usually would have pushed to do a workout last night even though I was exhausted. I did work out the night before that, but usually I do something every night just ’cause like the day is crazy busy. 

0:09:21.6 Mike Vacanti: Starting at like 10:00.

0:09:22.3 Jordan Syatt: Starting at like. Yeah. 9:30, 10:00. Last night I went to bed, the night before that I got a workout in and then the night before that I went to bed. And usually I’m doing something every night. Now I need to try and figure out. I might have to readjust my schedule to try and figure out a way to get these sessions in because I don’t want to stop these sessions. But if that means like going to bed earlier, waking up earlier. The thing that’s nice about the night workouts, which is also simultaneously bad, is I have essentially as much time as I want so I can be a little bit more slow with it. Whereas if I give myself like I’ve got an hour, like I’ve got to get it in, I might be more efficient with it as opposed to pushing it to an hour 30 at night, which then pushes my bedtime back.

0:10:06.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Cuts into your sleep.

0:10:08.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:10:08.9 Mike Vacanti: So you don’t wanna reduce your total training time.

0:10:11.6 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:10:12.1 Mike Vacanti: Or I guess you don’t wanna reduce your total number of training sessions.

0:10:15.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct.

0:10:16.1 Mike Vacanti: You might end up having to reduce your time per session.

0:10:19.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly.

0:10:21.3 Mike Vacanti: Is there another time of day where you could get it in?

0:10:24.7 Jordan Syatt: The only time would be early morning. That’s like the entire day is just slammed.

0:10:30.4 Mike Vacanti: And if you did that, what time would you have to wake up?

0:10:34.8 Jordan Syatt: Probably like 6:00.

0:10:35.8 Mike Vacanti: And so what time could you realistically be asleep each night?

0:10:40.5 Jordan Syatt: Probably 11:00.

0:10:41.5 Mike Vacanti: Okay. There’s your 7.

0:10:43.6 Jordan Syatt: There’s your 7.

0:10:45.0 Mike Vacanti: You were always an early morning guy in college, post college.

0:10:49.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Just gotta get back in that rhythm.

0:10:50.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you got it in you.

0:10:52.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s it, bro. That was the topic that I brought to today’s podcast. I thought that was an interesting study. I had never heard anyone reference that study before.

0:10:59.7 Mike Vacanti: Get your sleep, everyone.

0:11:01.7 Jordan Syatt: What else is going on, bro? How’s everything, aside from the sleep deprivation?

0:11:06.6 Mike Vacanti: Just one day at a time, my man. One day at a time. You get a lot of spam phone calls.

0:11:12.5 Jordan Syatt: Constantly. A lot of spam texts.

0:11:14.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that too.

0:11:15.6 Jordan Syatt: Tons of texts. We’re hiring. We’re hiring. We have a part time position available. Shut the fuck up.

0:11:21.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:11:23.0 Jordan Syatt: So many part time positions available. How the fuck did you get my number? And who’s responding to this?

0:11:28.3 Mike Vacanti: Do you know what I get? I get a lot of, like, random numbers. Hi, how are you?

0:11:33.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I get a lot of that too.

0:11:34.5 Mike Vacanti: A lot of, like, pretending that they know me and just striking up a conversation.

0:11:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Are you still available for lunch today? Yeah, I’ve gotten that one a handful of times, man. I’m like, wait, who the fuck did I schedule lunch today? But the only way is, like, there’s just no prior text with this person and it’s usually like a plus one number, which is outside the US, I’m like, okay.

0:11:56.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.

0:11:58.6 Jordan Syatt: I just want to know, like, how does it play out? Like, I’m not diving into it.

0:12:02.5 Mike Vacanti: What’s the scam?

0:12:03.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m not texting them because I was talking to cybersecurity guy and he was like, “Don’t do it, they can send you stuff. There’s phishing. There’s ways that, like, just through the communication that you’re more likely to be able to be hacked.” But I do want to see what the progression is, but I’m not. I just delete it immediately.

0:12:23.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Are they trying to, like, get my social. Are they trying to get me to send them money for something? Like.

0:12:27.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s such an odd way to start the con… Like, hey, how are you? And then somehow you’re gonna get into asking for money. If people do that, that’s impressive, if it actually works.

0:12:39.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t know what’s up with that. What else is going on? Just grinding, brother. Just grinding.

0:12:52.8 Jordan Syatt: Got that terrible lift in this morning. One of the worst ever. It made me… There’s definitely a point about hypocrisy in coaches who expect things of their clients that they don’t do themselves. And I think a bad workout is for 99.9% of the population, better than no workout.

0:13:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Yep.

0:13:20.7 Mike Vacanti: There is like the “addicted to exercise”, I won’t even say quote. People who are legitimately, like, over training, which is almost no one in the United States. But there are people who, sometimes it is better to take a day off, but for basically everyone, if you just don’t feel like training one day or you’re sleep deprived one day, whatever the case may be, you should get that bad workout in because missing that workout for the majority of us is a step in the wrong direction. And for a lot of people, it’s a step towards being someone who doesn’t work out.

0:13:55.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And statistically, the number of people that are addicted to working out relative to the number of people who don’t get any workouts in it’s insignificant.

0:14:07.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, rounds to zero. 

0:14:07.8 Jordan Syatt: And I would venture that the people who have that, like, addicted to workout mindset, they’re probably not addicted to strength training. They’re probably more like doing a lot of cardio because they think that they need to work out to burn calories. And so, like, you know what, get the workout in, but lift weights instead of doing a two hour cardio session to burn off more calories. Like, maybe the answer isn’t don’t work out. Maybe the answer is do a different type workout. Like get a strength, get a lift in. Which is, and I’m like, I’m sure there are some people who are addicted to weightlifting, but I bet those people are juiced out of their minds and like they have their bodybuilder type who are, it’s just different. The percentage of people in the US or world who are like that is just you, like you said, rounds to zero. Can’t even see it on a graph.

0:14:59.5 Mike Vacanti: Not to mention the people who are telling them that they’re addicted to exercise and don’t be addicted to exercise are addicted to things far worse than exercise.

0:15:09.2 Jordan Syatt: Like meth.

0:15:10.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:15:11.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, this is one example.

0:15:13.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I mean, that definitely exists. I think the majority of, not the majority, you know what? Let’s grok it. I’m curious about the people who are like daily marijuana users and daily drinkers.

0:15:30.7 Jordan Syatt: I bet marijuana is up and drinking is down.

0:15:32.8 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Alcohol’s down 5.2% year over year. Marijuana’s down 6.3%.

0:15:40.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting. I wouldn’t have expected that.

0:15:42.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, dude, these are, okay, 15 million alcohol daily users. 18 million marijuana daily users.

0:15:51.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah, makes sense.

0:15:52.8 Mike Vacanti: 1.7 million daily meth users.

0:15:56.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s a lot of meth. 

0:15:58.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s a lot. Well, especially when you think about what meth does to someone.

0:16:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s a lot of meth.

0:16:03.0 Mike Vacanti: Wow. That’s sad. Oh my gosh. Now there’s 10x the number of alcohol.

0:16:14.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but I just feel like people often overlook meth.

0:16:19.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I mean, that’s much higher than I was expecting.

0:16:21.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s only reported. That’s only reported.

0:16:25.6 Mike Vacanti: No, this is grok. So it’s like a grok estimation.

0:16:28.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but is that. I’m assuming that’s based on reported data.

0:16:31.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think people are reporting their daily meth usage.

0:16:34.1 Jordan Syatt: I think meth addict might be reporting it.

0:16:37.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think meth addicts are doing it.

0:16:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I do it. It’s great, feels great.

0:16:40.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think they’re doing any reporting. I think they’re…

0:16:42.3 Jordan Syatt: Everyone should be on it.

0:16:45.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think they’re doing any reporting.

0:16:48.9 Jordan Syatt: Feel so good.

0:16:49.5 Mike Vacanti: But my point being there are far worse things to get addicted to than alcohol or than exercise.

0:17:01.5 Jordan Syatt: Do you know Germany gave meth out during World War II?

0:17:09.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh yeah, yeah. Fighter pilots.

0:17:12.3 Jordan Syatt: I think it was a huge part of the population. Like just the civilian well.

0:17:15.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh really? I thought it was just the…

0:17:17.3 Jordan Syatt: I know they gave it to the military. I’m pretty sure they made it. If not, not just giving it out made it much easier to access to the civilian population. Double check me on that. Fact check me on that. But I’m almost positive I could very well be wrong though. I’m just thinking like walking around a bunch of civilians.

0:17:36.6 Mike Vacanti: A whole population. 

0:17:37.6 Jordan Syatt: Just like a lot of the population.

0:17:38.4 Mike Vacanti: Terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

0:17:42.2 Jordan Syatt: Just war torn Germany, inflation beyond anything you could ever imagine, and just people…

0:17:47.1 Mike Vacanti: Paranoid people itching their skin, putting a hole in their cheek. Have you seen the story about the Finnish soldier? I think it was World War II around that time. They were like surrounded in. I think they were in Russia and the Soviets had them surrounded and he had the entire platoon’s supply of meth on him or whatever the pills are like meth like pills. And he had these giant mittens on. They’re like in the, you know, Siberian sub zero weather.

0:18:26.4 Jordan Syatt: Freezing, yeah.

0:18:27.1 Mike Vacanti: And they’re on skis and they’re getting chased and he pulls the platoon supply out but he can’t pick one pill out because he has his mittens. So he takes the whole thing and he ended up. We should really, let’s put a link to this in the show notes. It’s a great story, but the guy ended up skiing like…

0:18:51.0 Jordan Syatt: A world record race. 

0:18:53.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, no, yes, but distance too. It was like 400km or something he covered and he was like hallucinating. He passed out face down in the snow at one point and then he woke up and obviously it was still in his system and like woke up and kept skiing, yeah.

0:19:14.4 Jordan Syatt: And he survived.

0:19:15.8 Mike Vacanti: He went on to like, he was military age at the time. I think he went on and lived to like 83 years old. And there’s a picture of the guy.

0:19:22.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, my goodness.

0:19:23.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:19:25.0 Jordan Syatt: I wish they were clocking the speed he was going at.

0:19:27.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh my gosh.

0:19:28.3 Jordan Syatt: Never mind the adrenaline dump from being chased by opposing troops. But then you just take a bottle of meth.

0:19:35.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:19:35.5 Jordan Syatt: On skis.

0:19:36.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:19:37.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s crazy.

0:19:38.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, he got to his base or got in an area where his comrades found him and his heart rate was like 250 beats per minute or like something insane.

0:19:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Thank God he didn’t die. That’s crazy.

0:19:52.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, no kidding. We’ll link that one up in the show notes.

0:19:55.3 Jordan Syatt: I’ve never heard that story. That’s incredible.

0:19:57.2 Mike Vacanti: I’ll send it to you too. You can read it.

0:19:59.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m watching this great docuseries right now on World War I and World War II and I’ve spent so much of my life on World War II and I’ve like spent time on World War I, but never dove into it deeply. But I’m right now getting very into World War I and it’s super interesting because in order to understand why World War II happened, you have to understand World War I. But I actually, I’d never heard this, which is really crazy. Did you know, so obviously Hitler served in World War I, he was in the military for Germany. But there’s a story, a true story where he was on the battlefield and an Allied soldier had Hitler in his sights and it was a young, I think it was a British soldier. For some reason the name Tandy is in my head. I don’t know if it’s correct though. Had Hitler in his sights and they were just standing there across from the trenches and the Allied soldiers put his gun down and let Hitler go. And it’s like the greatest what if in modern history of like had him in his sights and he just felt like, you know what? ‘Cause Hitler was unarmed. He didn’t have anything. It was just him staring right down the barrel of his gun. And the guy just let him go.

0:21:21.2 Mike Vacanti: Just, he’s unarmed. I don’t want to shoot him.

0:21:24.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, just a good dude. It was like, I just want to let this guy go. Do you know why Hitler had that mustache? Like the the inch long mustache under his nose? You know why he actually did that?

0:21:35.2 Mike Vacanti: I do not.

0:21:36.1 Jordan Syatt: So he’s in… So much of World War I was like this trench warfare and there were just so many stalemates because they had to dig these trenches out and they’d just be stuck for months with just trenches. And they introduced chemical warfare in World War I and so just unbelievably dangerous and horrifying what the chemicals would do. But then all the soldiers were given these gas masks. And one time in Hitler’s trench, the allies throw in. I believe it was mustard gas. But there were different types of warfare. The final one that sent him to the hospital before the end of World War I was mustard gas. But I don’t know. There’s another one where they were attacked with gas and he was trying to get his gas mask on, but he had a full mustache and his gas mask wasn’t sealing because of his mustache. So then he shaved it to be shorter so that the gas mask would fit over his face.

0:22:40.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s interesting.

0:22:41.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s where it comes from. That’s where he started it.

0:22:45.0 Mike Vacanti: I did not know that, that’s a good fun fact.

0:22:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I just learned that recently.

0:22:50.3 Mike Vacanti: Where’s the docuseries?

0:22:51.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s on Amazon Prime. It’s really good. It’s really good. There’s also a great one. I forget what if it’s called the Rise of Hitler or something. But it goes through… It’s on Netflix actually. Is that Netflix or Amazon Prime? I forget. I think it’s Amazon prime because I’ve been off of Netflix for a while. I think it’s called the Rise of Hitler. It’s a two part series and it goes from his childhood, from when he was born and all the crazy shit from his childhood all the way until his death. And it’s a two part series. It’s actually phenomenal. Really, really, really, really good. Yeah.

0:23:26.4 Mike Vacanti: Cool. 

0:23:27.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, now I’m watching, I think it’s called The Great Wars, which is a longer docuseries also on Amazon Prime.

0:23:35.9 Mike Vacanti: When do you watch these?

0:23:37.0 Jordan Syatt: When I do cardio.

0:23:40.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s during the day?

0:23:41.0 Jordan Syatt: No, that’s at night.

0:23:41.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s at night too.

0:23:42.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:23:43.3 Mike Vacanti: Gotcha. How’s your chess?

0:23:46.1 Jordan Syatt: You know you asked me at a great time because I just checkmated the fuck out of this dude right before this game. I went through like a 10 game losing streak and I was just furious. I get so mad, I get mad when I make a really dumb move and like I’ll just be on the couch and I’ll be like, “Fuck, I’m such a fucking idiot.” And my wife is like, “Jordan, relax.”

0:24:12.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you do, your self-talk is wild.

0:24:15.3 Jordan Syatt: I get so mad. So I had like a 10 game losing streak and now I’m on like a three or four game win streak. So in this moment it’s great. But I’m sure I’ll be back on a losing streak soon.

0:24:28.9 Mike Vacanti: Was the losing streak driven by like, you just not playing great, you not focused, you not…

0:24:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Just stupid mistakes.

0:24:37.7 Mike Vacanti: Were you playing shorter games?

0:24:37.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it was just stupid. Like, I didn’t realize. You know what gets me is the knights. I’ll often, like, overlook a knight’s ability to come backwards and like grab a queen. Something like, just stupid, stupid, stupid mistakes, yeah.

0:24:57.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Are you playing 10 or 15 minute games?

0:24:59.6 Jordan Syatt: I’ve been playing 10. I went to the 15. It’s just, it takes a long time because it’s not really 15 minutes. They could be 30 minutes, where’s, like…

0:25:09.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, 15 minutes.

0:25:09.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, it’s 15 minutes, but it’s 15, 10. So like…

0:25:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Do they have 15 just straight?

0:25:14.4 Jordan Syatt: They might have that, but it’s like 15 and then every time it adds 10 seconds. So the 10 minute flat ones are where I spend most of my time.

0:25:26.1 Mike Vacanti: Cool. 

0:25:27.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:25:28.9 Mike Vacanti: We’ll have to have some matches soon when you feel.

0:25:31.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but you know my, like, beginning of the game strategy. But I have changed a couple things, so we’ll see.

0:25:38.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m excited to see it. I’m just curious with your chess playing and maybe some of it hitting your feed. Did you see the news of the famous Grandmaster who…

0:25:50.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, he was like 26 or something?

0:25:52.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, 29.

0:25:53.2 Jordan Syatt: 29. Do we know what happened? I looked it up, but I don’t think they released the details. And a lot of the comments were, people assuming the worst and that like he took his own life or something.

0:26:03.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that we don’t know for sure. That seems like a strong possibility, but yeah. Incredibly, incredibly. 

0:26:13.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s unbelievably sad, was he struggling with depression or like?

0:26:16.3 Mike Vacanti: Look, I’m not really in that world, so I don’t know. I do know that there is this former champion who has accused a lot of chess players of cheating. And he accused this guy, Daniel was his name. I don’t even want to butcher his last name. And I think that was really taking a toll on him. It sounded like from… 

0:26:41.2 Jordan Syatt: Because people believed that he was cheating.

0:26:43.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, some people did. And even if the overwhelming majority didn’t believe it.

0:26:50.9 Jordan Syatt: How do you cheat? You can’t cheat.

0:26:52.8 Mike Vacanti: You can cheat in chess. There’s, I almost don’t want to tell you this, but there’s…

0:26:56.4 Jordan Syatt: Don’t tell me, don’t tell me. I don’t want to know. All right. I have no interest in cheating, but I don’t even want to know how.

0:27:03.1 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:27:03.5 Jordan Syatt: But that sucks, dude. That people were accusing him of it and then, man, that really blows.

0:27:09.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And we don’t know for sure that that’s what happened in terms of cause of death. But, yeah, super sad.

0:27:18.4 Jordan Syatt: Number one, it’s very sad. I was glad to see in the comments that there was none of the, like, COVID shot talk, ’cause that’s what it’s been. Anytime someone young dies, especially in sports, that’s always the immediate like, top comments are like, shouldn’t take in the jab. It’s like, every single time someone young dies, I’m like, can you guys fucking stop it?

0:27:41.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:27:41.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s so obnoxious that the first place they go to every single time.

0:27:46.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s just not an appropriate immediate response to someone’s death. An actual human being’s death.

0:27:57.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct. It’s so removed from humanity.

0:28:01.2 Mike Vacanti: Yes, that’s exactly right. And the communication style and social media, I think, is the number one cause of that.

0:28:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:28:09.8 Mike Vacanti: Meaning if you were in front of that person’s mother and she was mourning, you’re not gonna be like, was he jabbed? That’s just not how humans behave.

0:28:20.7 Jordan Syatt: How’s your chess?

0:28:21.9 Mike Vacanti: I thought you said chest. It’s like, that’s not the worst it’s ever been. It’s fine. It’s not the best it’s ever been.

0:28:34.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:28:35.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I don’t play a ton.

0:28:37.3 Jordan Syatt: Did I tell you I’ve been doing behind the neck Smith machine press?

0:28:40.8 Mike Vacanti: You did. Shoulders are feeling good.

0:28:42.7 Jordan Syatt: The more I do it, the more I love it, and the more I’m feeling parts of my shoulder work that I haven’t felt before in a pressing movement. I’m really enjoying it a lot.

0:28:57.6 Mike Vacanti: Nice.

0:28:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:28:58.8 Mike Vacanti: You have the range for it.

0:29:00.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I’m not programming that.

0:29:02.0 Mike Vacanti: Don’t go crazy at home, kids. Yeah.

0:29:04.6 Jordan Syatt: But I will film a video for the inner circle. So, like, if people want to try it, they can. But I’m not programming that for the vast majority of people.

0:29:14.8 Mike Vacanti: How’s your no scrolling slash/what’s been going on on social media?

0:29:19.6 Jordan Syatt: Amazing. I’m spending so much less time on social media.

0:29:22.8 Mike Vacanti: Nice.

0:29:23.8 Jordan Syatt: So much less time.

0:29:25.4 Mike Vacanti: That a boy.

0:29:27.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s life changing.

0:29:27.9 Mike Vacanti: Oh, let’s go.

0:29:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s life changing, dude.

0:29:29.8 Mike Vacanti: Tell me about it.

0:29:31.0 Jordan Syatt: You know, I was thinking about it, and actually, so Josh Smith was here, clinical psychologist, old friend of mine. And we were talking about it, and the way that I frame it is, you know, if you take a lot of caffeine, you get desensitized to it. You can just have more and more and more and more you don’t really feel it.

0:29:50.6 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

0:29:51.0 Jordan Syatt: Whereas, and then you take a break from it, and maybe you were taking 400 milligrams a day, then you go to zero or you go to 30 milligrams a day. As soon as you have a little bit more, you come back, then you go to 100 milligrams, you’re way more sensitive to it. It hits.

0:30:08.8 Mike Vacanti: Yep.

0:30:09.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s how I feel with social media, where I took, I basically took a significant amount of time, no scroll. And then as soon as I started to scroll a little bit, as I get, I’m so much more sensitive to it. I’m like, oh, I just get, like, such a visceral reaction to a video that I could have seen before and then kept scrolling. As soon as I see one thing that makes me feel gross, I’m like, oh, done. I’m out. Gone. And I’m hoping I stay with it, but, like, scrolling has been so much less.

0:30:44.1 Mike Vacanti: Let’s go. Good for you.

0:30:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s really good. Really good.

0:30:48.1 Mike Vacanti: What’s replaced it?

0:30:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Chess is a big one. Like, if I’m going to scroll, I’ll just do chess. That’s the main one. It’s just like, I’m going to, If I have 20 minutes, lie on the couch, play a game of chess. Hopefully I’m not infuriated.

0:31:04.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s also fixed, right? Like, the time that you’re playing. I know you can play multiple games, obviously, but scrolling, do you remember when Infinite scroll didn’t exist?

0:31:16.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. You’re all caught up. Yeah.

0:31:18.2 Mike Vacanti: You could reach the end of your feed. Like, you can sit down and plan to scroll for 10 minutes and end up scrolling for who knows how long.

0:31:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:31:27.8 Mike Vacanti: You didn’t really fall victim to that, like, you didn’t lay on the couch for three straight hours.

0:31:32.8 Jordan Syatt: No, I would never do that.

0:31:33.8 Mike Vacanti: People do. 

0:31:35.8 Jordan Syatt: But, like, even if it was 20 minutes, that’s a lot of content in 20 minutes. And it’s a lot of negative emotion, so, yeah. You’re not scrolling, right?

0:31:45.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m scrolling some Twitter.

0:31:47.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, that’s a bad place to scroll. Awful.

0:31:50.6 Mike Vacanti: Although I’ve… Yeah, overall awful.

0:31:54.0 Jordan Syatt: You see in anything notable, anything that you’re like, what the fuck is.

0:31:59.3 Mike Vacanti: I was trying to make my feed more health focused by, like, liking some stuff to try and get more of it, but it eventually just gives me more, like, political outrage. And then I feel awful. And get off of it. A lot of Vikings stuff, Minnesota Vikings.

0:32:27.0 Jordan Syatt: How are they doing?

0:32:28.9 Mike Vacanti: Lost a game that we should have won on Sunday against the Eagles and now we play the Chargers Thursday Night Football. Gonna lose. Both of our tackles are probably not playing. They get their star left tackle back. We have an old quarterback who wasn’t on our roster in training camp. Like, it’s just not good.

0:32:51.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:32:52.2 Mike Vacanti: Talk to me about your current Instagram strategy. As someone who’s not scrolling, are you posting mainly podcast clips?

0:33:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s basically all I’m doing right now.

0:33:03.0 Mike Vacanti: How’s it going?

0:33:04.1 Jordan Syatt: Some of them do well and some of them do horrible. I posted one this morning that’s doing terrible in terms of like overall engagement. But what I’ve realized is… So my goal is not to do well on Instagram. That’s not my goal. My goal is to get people listen to the podcast.

0:33:23.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:33:24.2 Jordan Syatt: So even if I post, here’s what’s interesting about the way Instagram works now relative to eight years ago. Eight years ago, if you posted something and it didn’t do well, it probably just sucked. It was probably a shit post. It just probably wasn’t good. Now, that’s not necessarily the case because good is, it really depends on many different things. But what is shown now mostly is are things that tend to be divisive or have drama attached to it. And I’ve found that even if they do well from a likes or engagement perspective, I’ve often found that I know people who are doing very well in terms of engagement, but their businesses are suffering because they’re doing content that is divisive and judgmental and drama based, whether it’s calling other people out or whatever, because they see people doing that and they think that that’s how you get more engagement equals more business. But it always goes back to brand, which, the definition of brand is how you make people feel. And what I’ve been seeing is that many people are doing these call out videos, judgmenty videos, drama based videos, and they do really well from an engagement perspective.

0:34:53.1 Jordan Syatt: But in terms of transferring into your actual paid customer people who actually want to work with you, they aren’t doing well. It’s this short form content that is often drama, judgment, controversy based, that people might like as entertainment, but they’re not liking it as, I want this person to be my coach. And so it’s been a unique shift as a creator of content in which I really don’t care how well it does in terms of total engagement, as long as I get one person to go listen to my podcast. Because the podcast is where people are going to want to become a paying client anyway. I will say Q&As are still really good for getting clients in my story, answering people’s questions, developing a relationship with them, but being in the game of let me focus on whatever I need to do to get more views and likes and engagement, I think is a losing game.

0:36:00.8 Mike Vacanti: So, is it or was it hard for you to disconnect your ego from performance of the post versus knowing the outcome you want?

0:36:10.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, of course, because I mean if you look at my engagement now relative to where it was at its peak, it’s a fraction. It’s a fraction of a fraction in terms of likes or whatever.

0:36:24.3 Mike Vacanti: And everyone’s kind of is like 90%… 

0:36:30.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, the vast majority. But again, the metrics that matter aren’t likes, it’s your business metrics. That’s what matters. And so I’ve noticed that, and I even get this in comments. I get people DMing me pretty frequently being like, “I just want to let you know I’ve unfollowed all of the fitness accounts that just constantly do call outs because it’s just drama. And I continue to follow you because you’re actually educating and I like your positivity and optimistic outlook.” And I found that one of the reasons people want to work with me is not because I’m saying anything different or because I have an approach that is so unique and special, but because they want to support me. That’s a huge reason people want to work with me, is they want to support me and my family and my business, which I think is an important consideration when if you’re thinking, God, there are just so many coaches out there and we’re all saying the same things. It’s like, yeah, that’s right. So why would someone want to work with you? It’s not because you’re saying something different, it’s because of how you make them feel.

0:37:35.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:37:37.0 Jordan Syatt: Do you make them feel like you care about them? Do you make them feel like their time spent looking at your content is worthwhile? Do you make them feel like you’re doing it for the right reasons? Because if everyone is saying the same things, which isn’t true, not everyone is saying the same thing. But if we’re all saying very similar things, which is true, especially in the science based world, what’s going to make you stand out? It’s not… And listen, I love using funny voices and I used to wear wigs all the time. And I still like, that’s fun. It’s funny for me. But the reason someone’s going to want to work with you is because they know you care about them and as a result, they care about you. And I think chasing likes and engagement in the way that the algorithm currently works is actually going to hurt your business. It’s probably going to hurt your soul, too. It’s probably going to just like, not make you feel good about what you’re doing. It’s going to make you hate the content creation aspect more.

0:38:41.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:38:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Whereas if you do what feels right and you do what feels good, your engagement will not be as good. The algorithm doesn’t promote, it doesn’t push that content out as much. But in terms of a slow burn, slow growth, gradual growth, getting one client at a time, someone that you know you can help over years and years and years, I think it’s better for business, it’s better for you, your heart, your soul, your mind. And I think it will lead to better outcomes. So, short answer. I have. I have a post up for almost an hour, has less than 100 likes with over 1,000,000 followers. Like, what the fuck, dude? That’s crazy. But it was a clip from a podcast that wasn’t like a purely fitness podcast. It wasn’t with someone that many people know. So there’s not like a lot of name recognition with this person. But I know it’s going to drive four people to go listen to the podcast.

0:39:35.1 Mike Vacanti: And that’s what you want.

0:39:36.6 Jordan Syatt: And that’s worth it.

0:39:38.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s funny you say that, because I noticed on Twitter some big accounts complaining about changes in the algorithm leading to them getting unbelievably low engagement on some of their posts. Which sounds like it’s just this continued shift from social media to interest media, where someone with four followers can have a post, go absolutely viral and pop off. Basically, the people who follow you are seeing less of your stuff relative to people who don’t follow you, who the social media company has determined will be interested in that specific post.

0:40:16.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s exactly right.

0:40:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, good, bro. I think that was some good advice, ’cause it’s a common question we get. We’ve had people in the mentorship over the years who are crushing in business, but unhappy with some of the vanity metrics. And it can be a head game for a lot of people.

0:40:35.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s the same thing. If your client is like, why aren’t they losing weight? The scale’s not going down. And in the same conversation, they’re like, I fucking love how I look. I love how I look. I’m building more muscle. I’m more athletic, I’m stronger. The visual results and the practical results are incredible. But the fucking scale number is pissing me off. It’s like, why? Why does it matter if you’re loving how you look and you’re seeing dramatic improvements in what actually matters? And so if you’re upset about the vanity metrics, but your business is improving, even if it’s one client at a time, which is how you build brick by brick, client by client, there’s no reason to be upset. It’s working.

0:41:17.7 Mike Vacanti: Preach.

0:41:18.8 Jordan Syatt: I mean, here’s one that literally just popped in. Someone just said, “Just to thank you for all you do. Your content is so supportive and I love your podcasts.”

0:41:26.9 Mike Vacanti: Perfect. That’s what you want.

0:41:28.5 Jordan Syatt: Like, what a blessing. What a nice comment. Thank you. But that’s what we want. That’s what we’re looking for. That’s what you want.

0:41:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I know what I was going to say. So you’re not spending time making specific content for Instagram?

0:41:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Not as much. Which was one of my goals. It was one of my goals just to do these podcasts, get a lot of clip them, and use Instagram as a gateway drug to my podcast. Just post clip after clip after clip after clip. And then hopefully at some point, someone after 28 clips are like, “You know what? I’ll fucking listen, I’ll try it.” Because I know as soon as they listen, there’s a really good chance they’re going to listen to more. So that’s… If you’re complaining about the algorithm and you’re complaining about short form content, but you’re not making long form content, that’s like someone complaining about their results from only doing cardio and not strength training. They’re like, “Ugh, I’m just, I don’t like these results. I don’t like these results. I don’t like these results.” But they just do. They just keep running. It’s like, okay, but you said you want to get more muscle definition and you’re not fucking strength training. It’s like, if you hate short form content and you’re not making long form content, start making long form content and use the short form content to push people there.

0:42:47.8 Mike Vacanti: Long form’s the game. Long form also, I think, prioritizes both truth, like nuance, obviously, but more importantly, truth over engagement tactics on short form, content, rage, bait, et cetera.

0:43:06.5 Jordan Syatt: Any advice for people in their 30s? Fitness, health, life, general.

0:43:10.5 Mike Vacanti: Do you have any advice for people in their 30s?

0:43:12.4 Jordan Syatt: You know, it’s hard to just separate it by decade because I feel like I would have advice for 20s because, number one, I’ve been through it. But also I feel like 20s are such a unique time, whereas the difference between like 30s, 40s and 50s and 60s, like, I almost feel like it doesn’t really change. Like the advice for 30s and 40s and 50s, like, because, for example, I feel like people in their 30s are often like, “I’m not where I want to be in my career yet, and I don’t know relationships or blah, blah.” But like, I think people are often like that until they’re 60, 70, 80, like, you know what I mean? It’s like there are people in their 60s who are like, “I want to change my career. Like, I don’t like what I’m doing.” Like, Susan is the greatest example. She was a teacher for over 30 years.

0:44:05.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:44:06.3 Jordan Syatt: And then in her late 50s, she’s like, “I’m going to do fitness now.” And I was like, that’s fucking awesome. And I feel like people in their 30s are like, “I think it’s too late.” It’s like, you think it’s too late in your 30s, you hate your job, you hate what you’re doing? It’s like, you could stop right now and it’s going to be a grind and you’re not going to be where you want to be immediately. But I don’t care if you’re in your 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s or 70s, like, you could always change it, yeah. I mean, and my advice to people in their 30s would be get out in your community and create great connections with people. And I would also say that to people in their 60s and 70s and 80s, get out in your community and have real conversations. And I mean, I just had, Again, I had Dr. Josh Smith here and we had some really amazing conversations in which we had pretty strong disagreements, especially at the beginning. And then we came from what we thought were strong disagreements into, oh, no, we actually agree on like 98% of this.

0:45:14.7 Jordan Syatt: And that conversation is so much more fulfilling to my heart and soul than debating on social media, it’s just like having a conversation, developing a real relationship with someone. And I think right now it’s, go out and have lunch with a friend, have a really great conversation, Try to understand a different point of view. Put yourself in someone else’s shoes. But I don’t know. For me right now, I’m very much in a community mindset. That’s where my brain is. That’s where I’m spending a lot of my mental and emotional and physical time, is trying to build community. And it’s something that is filling my cup tremendously, that I didn’t even realize.

0:46:07.6 Jordan Syatt: Like, you’re really extroverted.

0:46:09.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I am. But also, I’ve spent a long time not doing that. Whether it was because I was working so hard on business or even just the first couple years of having the first kid. It’s like, we’re not leaving. We’re here. It’s brutal.

0:46:26.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:46:27.4 Jordan Syatt: But we’re… For example, tomorrow we’re going to do Shabbat dinner with a family friend of ours. And before we were like, we’re not going out. It’s too difficult. And. And it’s going to be very. We’re going to bring both girls with us, and it’s going to be difficult. And getting them in the car and driving 30 minutes to their house, like, it’s going to be difficult. But literally, my thought is, aside from developing this friendship and all that, I think there is real health benefit to going and having a family dinner with another family that has the same values and morals and ethics. And I think just that hour and a half to two hours is equally as important as a workout. And so it’s like, in the same way, it’s important to get your gym clothes ready, get your water bottle ready, get your towel ready, get the program ready. I think it’s equally important to have time throughout the week where you spend it in a communal setting where you, I think your family’s together so much, you guys spend so much family time together every week.

0:47:36.1 Jordan Syatt: You’re like, “Hey, with the family.” Like, “I’ll call out with the family.” It’s like, it might even be something. I don’t know if you take it for granted, but you might not even realize it as much because it’s just what your family does. Like, you all, you deliberately stay in Minnesota because your family’s in Minnesota. Like, you’re not leaving. It’s. It’s such an ingrained part of your life. Whereas for my life, it wasn’t. We didn’t have family dinners growing up, we didn’t have that. That wasn’t Something like we just all sat down as if it was like, for many reasons, but as I’m getting older, I was like, this is really important and I really want to make this effort to, this has to be done because I think it’s equally as important for our health.

0:48:18.3 Mike Vacanti: I love it. It’s great advice. And I agree with you. I think that applies to literally, not just 30s and beyond. I think what you just said applies to like every single age.

0:48:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:48:32.0 Mike Vacanti: From a 3 year old to a 93 year old.

0:48:35.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s funny, I almost look at it… People look at decades is like, it’s a huge difference. It’s like, all right, you’re 39, and then the day you turn 40, it’s like you’re the… It’s the same. It’s almost the same. Like, I get frustrated in the medical world because they’re like, “Yeah, your cholesterol is 149, you’re fine, your LDL is 149, ” but then it goes up to 151. And it’s like, “Okay, now we have a problem.” You know what I mean? It’s like, I feel like we focus too much on these ranges. And as long as you’re within that range, that’s where you are. If you’re 39, like, it doesn’t matter if you’re 39 or 41, it’s like it’s the same thing.

0:49:18.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I think oversimplification, probably doctors seen too many patients.

0:49:27.6 Jordan Syatt: I’m just thinking in terms of people asking for advice for your 30s, it’s like probably the same advice I’d give someone in their 60s. Realistically.

0:49:34.2 Mike Vacanti: And yes, in general, for a person in a similar situation in life, you can have someone in their 30s who, like two people in their 30s might need drastically different advice. It’s hard to generalize based on age. Same with two people in their 60s might need drastically different advice.

0:49:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s exactly right.

0:49:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But I think that community, and I would just call it like in person, social interaction versus isolation is something that almost everyone is sorely lacking these days.

0:50:07.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, agreed.

0:50:09.0 Mike Vacanti: So seek it out for sure.

0:50:12.5 Jordan Syatt: I only work out at home by myself. Any safety tips?

0:50:15.8 Mike Vacanti: I think safety tips just don’t get yourself pinned underneath the bar.

0:50:20.4 Jordan Syatt: I mean, I’ve seen people injure themselves in a gym full of people. I’ve seen people injure themselves with someone who’s supposed to be spotting them, it’s, don’t do something that… I’d rather you err on the side of too light and leave a couple reps in the tank than people chasing this failure on every set and then risking a real injury. It’s not worth it.

0:50:45.0 Mike Vacanti: Correct. And when you do want to chase failure, if you’re by yourself with no one else, be smart about exercise selection. Like, if you want to take a set of bench to failure and risk either getting pinned or snapping a pec. Like, I would way rather tear my pec going heavy on dumbbell bench than I would on barbell bench.

0:51:06.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct.

0:51:07.4 Mike Vacanti: If I tear my pec on dumbbell bench, don’t get me wrong.

0:51:11.6 Jordan Syatt: It sucks. 

0:51:12.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s gonna really suck for a year plus. But the dumbbells fall to the side, hopefully… 

0:51:17.0 Jordan Syatt: 99% chance. 

0:51:18.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, very likely. Almost certainly you’re not getting hit in the face. Whereas a barbell terrier peck like that bar could come down on your neck.

0:51:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And with a dumbbell, like, you can move out of the way you, like, there’s a lot you can do with a barbell, it’s coming down. No matter what, you can’t move out of the way.

0:51:37.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:51:37.6 Jordan Syatt: And same thing, like, I see people doing really stupid shit with squats, especially squats on the Smith machine, which I love, but it’s like they’re using number one, way too heavyweight, and that’s really it. They’re going way too heavy, and they’re not ready for it. If you’re gonna go heavy, get a spot who knows what they’re doing and really communicate and be like, “Hey, do you know how to spot me here? ” Like, if I’m failing, you don’t grab the bar. You come up underneath my arms and you stand me back up. You tell them that, like, you do not… And if you’re a woman and you’re concerned about, like a creep, like, if you don’t want a dude to come underneath your arms and get up right up in your business, then get a female to help a female coach or someone in the gym or be okay being like, all right, like, what’s more important, like, my safety on this squat? Or if you don’t want to do doing it, then don’t go as heavy. But, like, the right way to spot a squat is to get underneath your arms and get their chest and their hips against your body and stand you back up. That’s the right way to do it. Grabbing the bar does, like… If you’ve got 100 pounds on the bar, which isn’t a lot. You got 100 pounds, and they’re grabbing the bar with their hands. That’s doing nothing.

0:52:59.4 Mike Vacanti: And the percentage of patrons at a commercial gym who know how to properly squat a barbell, spot a barbell back squat is like…

0:53:06.7 Jordan Syatt: 0%. 

0:53:09.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s low.

0:53:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:53:11.1 Mike Vacanti: I did see an interesting tweet that was like, it’s funny how we moralize PEDs was the header, basically.

0:53:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:53:26.9 Mike Vacanti: And then it listed. It was like, creatine, green, check. Caffeine, green check. And then nicotine had, like, something like, yellow next to it. And then there was something else that had, like, something yellow next to it. And then PE, like, steroids, red X peptides, red X. And they were making the point that, like, all of these are performance enhancing and you get to decide your own level of risk, and I don’t know. It was coming from an anonymous account who was clearly a dude who takes all of the above and probably in very high quantities. And he’s like, “If you take caffeine and creatine, you’re on PEDs, too. It’s just, like, a much more mild kind. And, like, don’t judge people who want to go the entire distance, ” which is…

0:54:23.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s a funny take.

0:54:25.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s a funny justification. But it’s also, I can see the truth in it, too.

0:54:32.3 Jordan Syatt: I see it. I definitely see it. I immediately go, all right, let’s stay in the same category of drugs. And there are different classifications of drugs, even just legally, right? It’s like, this is a misdemeanor versus this is a felony. And it’s like, how much do you have? And are you intending to distribute? And you can look at these classifications of drugs. It’s like, yeah, caffeine is performance enhancing. I wouldn’t call it a drug. And there’s an inherent difference between something that you can get naturally in your coffee or whatever versus something that is synthetically made in a lab, and you need to order it and then inject it. And I have no issue with it, by the way. Like, go for it. But I also, like, let’s calling a spade a spade, he’s just trying to justify his use, which is fine, go for it. I have no issue with using it. But comparing caffeine to anabolic steroids or to, that’s just stupid. Like, it’s just not even close.

0:55:35.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s an interesting place to draw the line, whether it needs to be created or whether it is found in nature.

0:55:43.4 Jordan Syatt: I mean, it’s one up, I don’t even think that’s an all encompassing one. But like, are you ordering it? And it was synthetically made in a lab and then you need to like inject it versus go to Starbucks, order it on Amazon and just make it in the morning. And I mean, even like, if it… Yes, caffeine can improve performance, but it’s also like, it’s allowed in competition. And they’re not testing for that because it’s not that big of a deal, especially on health and everything else, on like, from a physiological perspective, whereas testosterone is changing your fucking body chemistry. It’s changing on a deeply physiological level to the point where if you do it, you’re different forever, you can never claim natural status once you’ve done it. It’s just different. It’s sort of like we could look at manslaughter. Like you kill someone versus you accidentally kill someone. Like voluntary versus involuntary manslaughter. Someone’s dying either way and it’s your fault either way. But your intent determines the charge, your intent determines the sentence. It’s like, just because they’re both death doesn’t mean that you get the exact same sentence or it’s the same intent or the same view in the world.

0:57:08.8 Jordan Syatt: You have how people view things very differently based on your intent and what actually happened. It’s same thing with drugs. It’s like, if you’re injecting tests, great, go for it. I don’t give a shit. But don’t say that it’s in the same category as caffeine. Like, you’re out of your fucking mind.

0:57:24.8 Mike Vacanti: I agree with you for the record. But I liked the coping strategy. That is what it was.

0:57:39.2 Jordan Syatt: I agree with. Don’t judge. I agree with that. Don’t judge. Don’t judge someone for what they take. But, yeah, and don’t put those in the same category.

0:57:47.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And the definition of judgment, which is to look negatively upon someone for making like, you know, do make a judgment for yourself in whether you want to take the risk of the progressively more and more, I don’t think dangerous is the right word, but serious, more side effects.

0:58:06.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. More impactful.

0:58:07.9 Mike Vacanti: More potent.

0:58:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly. And also, if you don’t want me to judge you and you want me to take you seriously, don’t pretend that caffeine and steroids are in the same camp. It’s not even close. Like, I’m not judging you for taking them, but I am judging you for putting those in the same category. That’s just ridiculous. Yeah.

0:58:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Good pod. We made it through. Sleep deprivation life. Mentorship Q&A in six minutes. Thank you very much for listening. We’ll be back next week.

0:58:42.1 Jordan Syatt: See ya.