0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:13.0 Mike Vacanti: Welcome to the How To Become A Personal Trainer podcast.

0:00:15.1 Jordan Syatt: How many, how many subscribers do you think we lost after last week’s episode?

0:00:21.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. It just released today. We’ll find out.

[laughter]

0:00:27.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, what a crazy world. Anyway, we’ll move on from that topic to a different topic. How’s your stress levels? We were talking about that yesterday a little bit. How’s your stress? Where’s your stress at?

0:00:41.2 Mike Vacanti: Higher than normal. Just over the last couple months there’s probably a bit of accumulated, let’s call it social fatigue. Any of my introverts with… Any who pay attention to that kind of stuff can probably relate. Just a lot of Gary travel, a lot of family travel, just not a lot of alone time at all.

0:01:07.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, all good stuff, but it adds up and just need to find little pockets here to stay dialed. But overall good. But yes. You know what else it was actually? I forgot to bring this up to you.

0:01:26.3 Mike Vacanti: My training volume and intensity and caffeine intake were all increasing week over week for like eight weeks. I mean, volume wasnt going up every single week for eight weeks other than the fact that I was going heavier. So by the technical definition of volume, it was increasing.

0:01:45.3 Mike Vacanti: And that plus psychological stress was leading to just a little more tightness, a little more… I told you the other day, it doesn’t happen to me too often, but I did not want to train at all. And I had a workout scheduled and I had to really psych myself up and even negotiated with myself that, okay, I’m going to go a little bit lighter here, but I’m still going to get it in.

0:02:07.1 Mike Vacanti: Which actually led to I’m taking an entire deload this week just because that fatigue has accumulated, but overall feeling good.

0:02:15.4 Jordan Syatt: You took beta-alanine before a deload workout? That’s impressive.

[chuckle]

0:02:22.6 Mike Vacanti: I did, I did. Well, I took beta-alanine before in pockets.

0:02:24.1 Jordan Syatt: Was it because like the motivation wasn’t there?

0:02:27.1 Mike Vacanti: Honestly, it’s just, it’s the habit. Well, I don’t even take an effective, like a clinically effective dosage of beta-alanine.

0:02:34.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you don’t?

0:02:35.6 Mike Vacanti: No.

0:02:36.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it’s just placebo for you?

0:02:38.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I have the Bulk Supplements, big bag of it, not a sponsor. And I put a little in with the beet juice and the little bit of pre workout powder, little bit of Ghost Energy. Like that concoction I’ve been doing for a few years has a little, just a pinch of beta-alanine in there.

0:02:54.6 Jordan Syatt: You feel it?

0:02:55.9 Mike Vacanti: Minimally.

0:02:56.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. I hate that. I hate the tingles. Dude, I hate it. I absolutely hate it.

0:03:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Having them bad is definitely uncomfortable.

0:03:07.2 Jordan Syatt: Some people love it. I remember in high school when I first started taking it, people were like, “Oh, it’s great.” And I don’t know, thinking back, like if people actually really enjoy it. But for me, I get on my lips. It’s like intense tingles on like the outskirt of my lip, which is just, it’s not fun at all. It’s actually very annoying when I’m in the middle of a workout.

0:03:30.8 Mike Vacanti: Do you know how much you were taking?

0:03:32.7 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:03:34.6 Mike Vacanti: But knowing you, in high school if it was dosed reasonably and you were like, “Oh, one scoop is the serving size? Give me two. Like, let’s get after it.”

0:03:41.6 Jordan Syatt: No, no, I didn’t do that. I didn’t do that. I didn’t double it.

0:03:44.6 Mike Vacanti: You didn’t do that?

0:03:46.3 Jordan Syatt: No. Not with beta-alanine at least. When I was in high school…

0:03:47.9 Mike Vacanti: But your beta-alanine was just in your pre workout. You weren’t taking beta-alanine by itself?

0:03:51.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct, correct, correct. Yeah. But I would just take a regular pre workout scoop. I SuperPump 250. That’s what I did. That was. That was crazy stuff. If you remember that like light, like neon blue SuperPump. Wait, was it neon blue? Oh yeah, it was white. But when you put it in water, it would turn this like neon blue. [chuckle] And man, SuperPump 250 was a wild pre workout.

0:04:15.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t remember SuperPump 250.

0:04:16.9 Jordan Syatt: Gaspari Nutrition SuperPump. You don’t remember that?

0:04:20.5 Mike Vacanti: SuperPump MAX.

0:04:21.5 Jordan Syatt: They might have changed the name.

0:04:22.4 Mike Vacanti: Hulk Juice by SuperPump.

0:04:24.5 Jordan Syatt: Hulk Juice.

0:04:25.4 Mike Vacanti: Some real branding.

0:04:28.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:04:29.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, beta-alanine is not the most comfortable feeling for a lot of people.

0:04:31.9 Jordan Syatt: Going back to your stress, you were saying you’ve got like over 40 flights this year. Coaching Gary, a lot of family, travels, weddings and stuff. Which again, it’s all wonderful things, but even for an extrovert, that would be tough, nevermind for an introvert.

0:04:47.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah, it adds up. All is well, though. These are champagne problems.

0:04:52.1 Jordan Syatt: All right.

0:04:52.7 Mike Vacanti: How are you?

0:04:53.7 Jordan Syatt: Bro, I’m good. I’m good. What do I got going on? My wife is nine months pregnant.

0:05:03.6 Mike Vacanti: Getting close.

0:05:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Getting close. Yeah. She’s nine months. It’s almost like, it’s funny, before my first daughter was born it’s all we thought about. It was like, just that’s all we thought about. Because you don’t have a kid yet, and it’s just you two and you still have a lot of time and freedom to do stuff.

0:05:23.5 Jordan Syatt: Now with my first daughter here, and then also Curtis, my puppy, this pregnancy has gone by insanely fast. So it’s almost like, I feel like I’m not mentally or emotionally prepared. I had so much time. I was like, “I’m ready. I’m ready for my first.”

0:05:43.8 Jordan Syatt: For this one. I’m like, oh my God. God willing, she’ll be here within the four weeks or so or less. And I don’t, I just don’t feel that same level of preparedness that I’m about to be having. That’s it, bro.

0:05:55.4 Mike Vacanti: There’s probably something to be said about doing it once, though, and that adding a level of built in preparedness for what to expect.

0:06:02.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. There’s also, my first daughter, she’s… She was sleeping through the night by five weeks and she was never… She still isn’t really a crier. Dude, she’ll fall. She’ll eat shit on the pavement. She will fall. Scrape her knees, scrape, and just like doesn’t bother her at all. It’s actually very, it’s wild to see.

0:06:25.7 Jordan Syatt: So there’s other like, oh my gosh. Like, is this new one gonna sleep through the night? What’s the cause? You know, you just never know. Every kid is completely different. So there’s like the anticipation, fear.

0:06:38.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. And you not wanting to have false expectations for what’s coming. Like, “Oh, she’ll be easy.” You know. It’ll be easy again, like it was the first time.

0:06:47.4 Jordan Syatt: Like, “What the hell?”

0:06:47.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.

[laughter]

0:06:51.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:06:51.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s very exciting.

0:06:53.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, man. That’s good. Dude, I got a… I’m so close to my front splits. Did you see my front splits? Do you see those yesterday?

0:07:00.1 Mike Vacanti: You didn’t send them to me.

0:07:01.3 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t send them to you? Oh, I didn’t know if you saw them on Instagram, but I know you’re off social media, so that would make sense.

0:07:08.5 Mike Vacanti: Bro, when I’m on.

0:07:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Look at that. People on youtubers look at that.

0:07:11.1 Mike Vacanti: Looks incredible.

0:07:11.4 Jordan Syatt: Is that crazy?

0:07:12.2 Mike Vacanti: It looks incredible.

0:07:13.6 Jordan Syatt: I’ve got like an inch and a half, maybe 2 inches to go, and I’m…

0:07:17.4 Mike Vacanti: It looks like you’re there right now.

0:07:19.1 Jordan Syatt: No, I just gotta get, you know, b to g. Balls to ground.

0:07:23.2 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I think you’re there.

0:07:24.4 Jordan Syatt: It is. It’s been, it’s been very fun. So that’s been a really cool, cool journey to go on.

0:07:30.6 Mike Vacanti: Good, man. I’m happy for you. It’s probably cool to look at all the pictures.

0:07:35.5 Jordan Syatt: You’re like, “All right. Next topic.”

0:07:36.7 Mike Vacanti: No, no.

[chuckle]

0:07:39.3 Mike Vacanti: I like goal accomplishment. Setting goals and progressing towards them and being consistent and being disciplined and overcoming hurdles and getting there, that’s amazing.

0:07:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:07:47.6 Mike Vacanti: And seeing where you started to where you are now, it’s impressive. And not fun.

0:07:54.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:07:56.4 Mike Vacanti: I mean, for most people. It’s intense training.

0:07:58.8 Jordan Syatt: The training, to be honest, was not fun. At all. The training is incredibly painful. Unbelievably painful. And it’s not… I don’t enjoy the training, I enjoy the learning from the training. I enjoy learning this new style and learning this new, the new methodology.

0:08:20.5 Jordan Syatt: And obviously I enjoy the results from it and see, oh, this is cool. Like, I can actually do this. A lot of the… There are a lot of people, “Oh, no, I’m just not a flexible person. I just wouldn’t be able to do that.”

0:08:31.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s like but have you actually spent time working on your flexibility in a science-based way as opposed to just thinking, “I’m just not a flexible… ” It’s like someone being like, “I just can’t lose fat. I’m big boned,” type thing. [chuckle]

0:08:41.9 Mike Vacanti: Or any self limiting belief. “I can’t build a business. I’m not a social media person. I don’t… “

0:08:47.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. So it was cool. Honestly, I think the most surprising thing, even I had an issue with this, where like it was like, oh, if I stretch, you know, I’ll just stretch every day.

0:09:02.4 Jordan Syatt: But it’s like, at no point if you’re strength training, would you be like, yeah, you should just strength train every day. It’s like, no. You do it a few times a week and you do it with a certain level of intensity. And as long as you’re doing it with enough intensity progressively, then you’re going to make progress.

0:09:18.5 Jordan Syatt: Stretching, approaching it that same way. Like I only train front splits once a week. That’s it. I literally only do real hip flexor stuff once a week, but it’s super intense. And it’s been really crazy to see that level of improvement with once weekly hip flexor stuff.

0:09:32.8 Mike Vacanti: Mike Mentzer of stretching.

0:09:34.6 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, man. That’s right.

0:09:36.6 Mike Vacanti: You can run with that.

0:09:37.8 Jordan Syatt: I’ll take that.

0:09:38.5 Mike Vacanti: Use that in some copy and run ads at all the 15 year olds on YouTube shorts who love Mike Mentzer.

0:09:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Bro, I’m getting the worst ads from fitness mastermind gurus. And my wife does, too. ‘Cause, you know, I think my wife just, she sees my stuff and then she gets those ads and she’s like, “Did you see this person? Did you see this person? Did you see this person?”

0:09:57.6 Mike Vacanti: Proximity of both of your phones, too, being close to each other and like, you know, our phones listening to us, which it’s been proven that they do. So her phone hearing you talk. Yeah, it makes sense that she’s seeing that too.

0:10:10.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s just. It’s wild what these people are putting out.

0:10:13.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. I get them, too. YouTube pre rolls. You talked earlier about me not being on social media right now. I’m basically never on Instagram for several years, consuming. If and when I am, there’s bursts of Twitter, there’s bursts of YouTube shorts, there’s bursts of YouTube, TikTok, but never Facebook, Instagram.

0:10:37.8 Mike Vacanti: The few times in the last two years where I have like actually scrolled on Instagram, all of my ads are mastermind gurus for, “Do you want to build your fitness? Are you making at least $30,000 a month? If not, let me show you my secrets.” It’s someone who like, whatever, we don’t need to go… But it’s not just one. There are literally 10 to 15.

0:11:02.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, at least. I’m seeing new ones pop up. I’m like, who the fuck is this person? I’ve never even seen you.

0:11:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. It’s people who never built a fitness business, but maybe had a marketing background and then saw an opportunity and they’re using whatever they used in a different industry in fitness, because they see a chance to make money.

0:11:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Or they tried to build a fitness business, they couldn’t build a fitness business.

0:11:24.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, we know that that happens for some.

0:11:26.9 Jordan Syatt: That happens frequently. People who’ve tried to do it, they couldn’t do it, or they could have, but they didn’t, and then they just decide to switch to teaching coaches how to do what they didn’t do.

0:11:37.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:11:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Which is just, it’s remarkable. And I see it all the time. It’s really incredible.

0:11:42.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I mean, ads in general are quite annoying, but yes, those are especially annoying.

0:11:49.4 Jordan Syatt: Anything you want to hammer on today?

0:11:54.1 Mike Vacanti: Got my annual golf trip coming up in a couple of weeks here, and the handicap negotiations started yesterday, which has been very intense on the group chat.

0:12:05.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:12:06.5 Mike Vacanti: Do you know what handy work do you know what a handicap is?

0:12:08.9 Jordan Syatt: I know a handicap is like, so if you’re going against someone really, really good, then like you, and you’re not as good as them, they might give you a certain amount of handicap. So it’s like you would, like you would need a certain number. You could actually score way worse than them, but it could technically be like a tie, depending on the handicap.

0:12:28.9 Mike Vacanti: Very good. That’s exactly right.

0:12:30.9 Jordan Syatt: Didn’t Trump give Biden when he challenged him to the golf match, he’s like, “I’ll give you like 20 strokes per, like on each side, like on the front nine and the back nine.” [chuckle]

0:12:41.3 Mike Vacanti: Did he say that in the debate?

[chuckle]

0:12:43.8 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t catch that. I just… I do remember him being like, “I’m an eight. You’re not an eight.” Or, “You’re a six. I’m not. No. No way he’s an eight.

[chuckle]

0:12:56.0 Mike Vacanti: Unbelievable that that unfolded. And when you see flashbacks to like the 2012 presidential debate and they’ll show them being like, very cordial, very polite, very professional, and then…

0:13:06.2 Jordan Syatt: How did we get here?

[chuckle]

0:13:07.3 Mike Vacanti: “You’re not a six. You’re not a… This guy, have you seen him hit his driver?” It’s like, okay guys, come on.

0:13:13.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s like two grandpa’s arguing at Thanksgiving.

0:13:16.7 Mike Vacanti: But handicap, yes, you’re exactly right. So it’s a number, and then you get strokes. So technically, if you have someone who’s really good playing against someone who’s not very good and you want to make it so they can have a match against each other, you know, someone might be a two handicap and the other person’s a 20 handicap, so they get 18 strokes over the course of that round of golf.

0:13:40.9 Mike Vacanti: And so it’s this big eight on eight tournament that we do every single year. And the handy… Our team has won the last two years, so the other team’s really negotiating hard to get lots of strokes. So that’s where we are right now.

0:13:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh got it. So they’re… Because your team has one. It’s not based on who everyone objectively says is a better golfer. Like the other team has a really good golfer. Right?

0:14:01.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s… Normally it’s objective. You log your scores and keep your handicap. Most of us aren’t that serious, so don’t keep a handicap. So we’re assigning each person a handicap.

0:14:14.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow.

0:14:14.6 Mike Vacanti: And that’s where the negotiations are coming.

0:14:16.9 Jordan Syatt: Got it.

0:14:17.0 Mike Vacanti: Like, “Oh, this guy hasn’t played much this year.”

0:14:18.3 Jordan Syatt: You must not have a big handicap.

0:14:19.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s gone down several strokes from last year.

0:14:22.6 Jordan Syatt: Does that on one hand upset you, but also on the other hand, be like, “Yeah, I don’t need that big of a handicap”?

0:14:30.9 Mike Vacanti: Honestly, I just want it to be fair. And so I want whatever’s fair. I’ve only played four rounds, so the sample size is not… Remember my new approach of low frequency?

0:14:40.5 Jordan Syatt: You didn’t do it.

0:14:42.7 Mike Vacanti: Not playing… No, I am… Oh yeah, I didn’t do it. It was higher frequency, lower…

[chuckle]

0:14:47.0 Mike Vacanti: But I have played nine a couple times, instead of 18.

0:14:49.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. So you kept the intensity down, but you didn’t increase frequency?

0:14:53.8 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t increase frequency, yeah.

[chuckle]

0:14:57.9 Mike Vacanti: But I have been playing well, so we’ll see. Yeah, man. Not much else is new.

0:15:02.9 Jordan Syatt: Where’s the trip? Is it in Utah?

0:15:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Nebraska. We’re going to Landmand Golf Course in…

0:15:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Is this the first time in Nebraska?

0:15:11.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. We haven’t gone there before. Apparently it’s, the pictures look insane. The course looks really nice.

0:15:16.9 Jordan Syatt: So are you all staying in the same house, Airbnb or something?

0:15:20.8 Mike Vacanti: I think we’re staying on the property. To get the tee times we needed to rent out their cabins, so.

0:15:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Are there like multiple cabins for all of you or just one big one?

0:15:30.4 Mike Vacanti: No, they’re small. I think there’s four small. The cabins are just for sleeping in.

0:15:35.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I understand how a cabin works.

[laughter]

0:15:43.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, you asked if they’re huge.

0:15:45.7 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t know if like… ‘Cause didn’t you have like one big house in Utah or something where you guys were last year?

0:15:51.1 Mike Vacanti: Dude, you went to Utah last year on your snowboarding trip, and you had a big house with all of your friends. I never went to Utah.

0:16:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Where was the trip?

0:16:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Wisconsin. Or northern Minnesota.

0:16:03.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, why did I have this? Oh, there was a big trip that, like a big, some type of a bachelor’s party or something you were gonna go to in Utah and then you couldn’t go last minute, right? That was a couple of years ago.

0:16:15.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t… Honestly, I don’t even know if that was in Utah. I think that was five years ago. That’s amazing. Yeah.

[chuckle]

0:16:23.9 Jordan Syatt: I thought that was like last year.

0:16:26.2 Mike Vacanti: Time, bro. Time is flying.

0:16:28.8 Jordan Syatt: Ugh. Oy yoy yoy.

0:16:31.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. We got cabins there. It’ll be fun.

0:16:33.6 Jordan Syatt: And you’re not drinking?

0:16:34.7 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t drank in a year.

0:16:36.4 Jordan Syatt: Since that trip.

0:16:37.3 Mike Vacanti: Since that trip. I was overserved last year. Had a very not fun Sunday morning car ride home and haven’t had a sip of alcohol since then.

0:16:51.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you were telling me. I remember after that trip, you’re like, “Dude, I’m never drinking again.” And you’ve done it. You haven’t drank since. That’s crazy.

0:16:57.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s not hard for me. That’s not my vice of choice.

0:17:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:17:01.7 Mike Vacanti: Food, on the other hand, I have started to realise is something that I have more thoughts and temptations around than I realised. For like a 24 hours period I was live texting Jordan my thoughts about, you know, desserts and temptations and portion sizes.

0:17:22.7 Jordan Syatt: I loved that. I liked when you were sending me these Keebler cookies and explaining your strategy. Like, “All right, I would really want this, but I’m gonna go shower, brush my teeth.” [chuckle]

0:17:33.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, here’s what… On the podcast and in our discussions, I think maybe either I am not self aware enough to know my thought process in the moment, and so it doesn’t come across clearly, or I’ve just let you misinterpret me as having like the most insanely dialed hunger signaling/portion control/relationship with food of all time, when in reality…

0:18:01.6 Jordan Syatt: Just put these relationship in air quotes. Like, “relationship”. [chuckle]

0:18:08.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s just not a term I use as often, but I thought it made sense. [chuckle] It wasn’t meant to be offensive. But yeah, dude, I had like a big 50, 60 grams of protein. I think it was a Chipotle bowl, solid meal, beans in there, good amount of fibre. And then afterwards, so I’m physiologically full, I just had 900 calories and 16oz of water.

0:18:34.9 Jordan Syatt: Lot of fibre, lot of protein.

0:18:36.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And then saw these little Keebler cookies in our pantry. I was like, what are these? Where did these come from? You know, opened it up, had one. Okay, they’re delicious. And what was it? Serving size four cookies. And there were either six or eight servings in the container. And I had a serving, was like, okay, I could easily. Or I had five cookies. It’s like, I could easily crush this entire box of cookies right now and not feel bad at all and not even feel really full afterwards. And I really want to do that.

0:19:12.6 Mike Vacanti: And I was just laying there with the box cookies. I was like, you know what? I’m going to put these away. I’m going to go brush my teeth as, like, a little reset, take a shower, drink some water, and boom, I was good.

0:19:23.6 Mike Vacanti: But I think previously, without having talked that out with you in the moment, there was an assumption that it just happened much more naturally and intuitively and with less willpower/decision-making/temptation.

0:19:36.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s exactly… You sent another thing, I forget what it was. It was in that container. And you’re like, “Hey, we had these like ridiculous… ” I forget what it was.

0:19:44.8 Mike Vacanti: Crumbl Cookies.

0:19:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Crumbl Cookies. Yeah. Insanely good. And you were like, “Hey, I’m gonna put these in a different drawer, like an obscure drawer.” And I called you, and I was like, “Yeah, but you still know which drawer they’re in and you gotta handle it.”

0:20:02.0 Jordan Syatt: And then, but then, and I said, if that was me, I would just take it out of the container and throw it out. Because if it’s sitting in there and I know it’s there, I’m like it’s just gonna be. And like literally take it out of the container. ‘Cause if you put it in the container, in the trash, like it’s still fine. So you gotta take it out of the container and put it in the trash.

0:20:21.3 Mike Vacanti: Fair game. Be fair game to dig it out of there.

0:20:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So it’s like… And then you were like, no, you would do that as well, depending on what it is or whatever. But like if you can put it in an obscure drawer and then forget about it, that’s fine. But you said, you know, you’d do the same thing.

0:20:36.1 Mike Vacanti: My wife’s cousin brought us these super nice cookies. I didn’t want to throw them out the second they walked out the door. So I figured that put them in the obscure drawer for 24 hours before I threw them out, was more appropriate.

0:20:48.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:20:49.3 Mike Vacanti: Than just like immediately putting this gift in the trash.

0:20:53.0 Jordan Syatt: That was so nice of you.

[laughter]

0:20:58.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But it’s environment… Going back to when everyone, including me I think, intentionally or accidentally, was ripping off Atomic Habits. Environment is so important for decision-making. And when you have access or even your sight lines have certain things in them, like dessert foods, you’re just more likely to overeat those things, than setting up an environment that has healthier options and less or fewer of the things that you might more easily overeat.

0:21:35.5 Jordan Syatt: I never thought about it this way, but you know when you go to someone’s house, like your cousin just came over to your house and they gave you the food, but you know how sometimes, like whether it’s Thanksgiving or a holiday, and you’re arguing over who’s going to take the food? Either, “No, you take it or we’ll take it.” And usually they’re like, “No, you take it.” “No, you take it.”

0:21:52.4 Jordan Syatt: Essentially, what you’re both arguing for is who’s gonna throw it out. That’s what it boils down to. [chuckle] You’re both arguing to be like, “No, you throw it out.” “No, you throw it out.” When it’s really you’re trying to pass it off as like, “No, I want you to have it.” “No, I want you to have it.”

0:22:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Obviously, there also is the part of being like, listen, if this isn’t my house, I’m gonna eat it. So it’s like, all right, well then if I am the one that stuck with it, then I’m just gonna fucking throw it out. That’s what the whole argument is. [chuckle]

0:22:16.8 Mike Vacanti: I have never thought of it like that. Do you think that’s always… It probably depends on the people. And it depends on what the food is.

0:22:24.0 Jordan Syatt: You’re right. If it’s fitness people or health conscious people, you’re arguing over who’s going to throw it out. If you’re not health conscious people, you’re arguing over who’s going to eat it.

0:22:32.8 Mike Vacanti: And if it’s leftover turkey from Thanksgiving or is it leftover pumpkin pie?

0:22:37.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, turkey is great because then you’ve got protein for like a week. You got turkey sandwich, you got lunch made for that whole week, so that’s fine. But yeah, if it’s pumpkin pie or…

0:22:49.8 Mike Vacanti: Apple pie.

0:22:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, apple crunch or something. Yeah, it’s a real problem.

0:22:52.9 Mike Vacanti: Apple crisp is a real problem for you.

0:22:54.6 Jordan Syatt: Apple crisp, dude. Oh, my God. You know, my wife makes… My wife makes a really good one. It’s like a very healthy one.

0:23:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:23:02.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s so good. Yeah, that’s not a problem. I mean it is a problem, but it’s not a problem.

0:23:04.1 Mike Vacanti: And she does that great, like berries with, what was it? Some kind of cream?

0:23:12.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you’re talking about. With Cool Whip.

0:23:16.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:23:19.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. Like a low…

0:23:18.5 Mike Vacanti: Something sweet after dinner, but you’re all, you know, it’s berries and low calorie and delicious.

0:23:24.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I gotta, I gotta give a shout. I was thinking about this while we were talking about the alcohol thing. I gotta give a shout to one of the mentorship members and she’ll, she’ll love it. I know she listens to the podcast every week. Rachael Schwartz.

0:23:44.0 Jordan Syatt: She had a post on social media go nuts recently, and I started thinking about it when you were talking about alcohol and just like you were just describing how you are with alcohol. And right now it’s a big thing in the fitness world to be like getting rid of alcohol. “Don’t drink, don’t drink, don’t drink.”

0:24:01.3 Jordan Syatt: And Rachael’s awesome. Rachael just, she doesn’t give a fuck. She is who she is. She is crushing it with her business. It’s absolutely wild. And she made this post recently where basically she just said all of the stuff that, that she enjoys, that so much of which goes against what is popular in the fitness industry right now.

0:24:22.9 Jordan Syatt: So she was like, “I love booze. I really like to drink.” And she was like, “I like doom scrolling at night instead of fucking reading.” Just like all of this…

[laughter]

0:24:34.6 Jordan Syatt: Just like went on a big list of all the things that she enjoys doing and the post went nuts and got a great response. I wanted to give her some props because she works super hard and she’s great. She’s in the mentorship. And I just started thinking about that as soon as you said the, where we were talking about the alcohol.

0:24:48.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s amazing. Congrats, Rachael. And that’s a great concept for a post, too.

0:24:52.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Just telling the truth, right? Just not pretending. Just telling the truth.

0:24:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Regardless of what she thinks the outcome might be or what people might think, you know, going against trends. And she has, she’s been killing it now for years.

0:25:07.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s crazy.

0:25:09.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Should we fire up some questions?

0:25:13.6 Jordan Syatt: All right. So here’s a question that… So I’ll tell you what the question is, and then I’ll tell you where my mind goes. The question is, what’s the best lifts exercises to improve pull ups or chin ups?

0:25:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Where my mind goes is potentially some overrated exercises to improve chin-ups. For example, I think a major, major overrated one is band assisted. And we could talk… I’m not saying it’s useless, I’m not saying it’s bad, but I think it is very overrated. And the reason I think it’s overrated is, number one, is because it’s usually the first one that people go to, is a band assisted chin-up. It’s like, “All right, I want to get better at chin-ups, I’m going band assisted.”

0:26:00.3 Jordan Syatt: There are a number of issues. We’ll start off with the issue that I think is the least discussed, which is a band assisted chin-up for a complete beginner, and especially if we’re talking about someone who’s not very fit, hasn’t really been to the gym before. It’s really difficult to set up by yourself, by the way.

0:26:19.1 Jordan Syatt: It can be nerve wracking, can be scary. You gotta fucking crank that band down depending how strong the band is. You could… There’s a lot of potential issues. I’ve seen it go in people’s crotches before. Like, whoop, snap back up. There’s some issues with it. That’s just the practical behavioral, psychological side.

0:26:37.2 Jordan Syatt: The other aspect, which I think is more discussed but not enough, is that the hardest part of the chin-up is when you’re fully extended at the bottom. And that’s where the band assisted chin-up is the easiest. You have the most tension on the band, the most assistance from the band.

0:26:56.4 Jordan Syatt: I think the band assisted chin-up is actually, it shouldn’t be the main drill that you use if you can’t do a chin-up. It can be one of them. But I actually think a better one is just slow, eccentric chin-ups going all the way down.

0:27:16.5 Jordan Syatt: And by the way, you can use band assisted with that if you need to. Like if you can’t do that by yourself yet, you can use band assistance. And I actually think that will be better than doing band assisted regular chin ups. Because you’re always stronger eccentrically than you are concentrically.

0:27:33.2 Jordan Syatt: So you’ll be able to use less band assistance doing the eccentric-only chin-ups than you would if you were doing the concentric chin-ups. And that way you can actually get stronger in that range of motion at the bottom, arms fully extended. What do you think?

0:27:46.6 Mike Vacanti: I think that makes a lot of sense, especially that it’s not the easiest to set up. So someone who needs a lot of assistance/isn’t very comfortable in the gym, doesn’t have a lot of experience setting up various exercises, and they’re on their own not working with someone. Yeah, it’s definitely harder for them to get in position. Yeah man, I love you wanting to get maximum tension in the stretch position. Why not, right?

0:28:22.5 Mike Vacanti: I also really like slow eccentrics as a way to build pull up and chin-up strength. I like all overhead pulling motions to build towards being able to do a pull up or a chin-up, which means all grips and variations of lat pulldowns, eccentric chins, assisted chins. Even rowing is going to have crossover effect. Your back’s getting stronger. If you get a stronger row, it’s going to help you pull overhead stronger as well.

0:28:57.4 Mike Vacanti: Losing weight. If you have weight to lose, and if that’s a goal and if you need to lose weight for your health, obviously then you have, you know, if you go from 190 to 180, it’s going to be easier to pull 180 up than it is to pull 190 up.

0:29:09.0 Mike Vacanti: Which is why I actually really like programming, for people who enjoy pull ups and chin ups, I like programming them most in a cut. Whereas they can be kind of discouraging to program as a primary movement for someone who’s trying to build muscle, because they get harder and you, progress is slower on them and you feel like you’re not doing as well, even though if your reps stay consistent as you go from 190 to 200, you’re getting stronger on that overhead pulling move.

0:29:39.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Correct.

0:29:40.5 Mike Vacanti: But it’s like, “I’ve been stuck at nine reps here for the last twelve weeks. Like, what the heck is going on?” So I like, I slightly favour toward lat pulldown as a primary overhead pulling movement for someone who’s trying to build muscle, compared to a pull-up or a chin-up for someone who’s trying to lose body fat.

0:30:01.4 Jordan Syatt: Love that. And I also think it’s important, I think people really overlook how a five to 10 pound difference in body weight can dramatically impact your pull-up or chin-up. It’s substantial. And to see how substantial it is, just strap an extra 10 pounds on you and see how much harder it is. It’s crazy. [chuckle]

0:30:23.2 Jordan Syatt: And, you know, I would really love to have a… To spend time speaking with high-level rock climbers and learning about their eating habits. ‘Cause I would imagine… ‘Cause I’ve never spent time speaking with many high-level rock climbers.

0:30:41.5 Jordan Syatt: I would imagine there’s some real disordered eating among that population because they’re all so freaking skinny. And they have to be in order to do what they do. If they add 10 pounds to their frame, it makes their job way more difficult.

0:30:56.6 Jordan Syatt: And by the way, not only just muscle… Not only just fat, but also muscle. You add 10 pounds of muscle it actually makes it way more difficult to rock climb. So they have a very unique challenge in terms of staying as light as possible while also being very strong, which comes from a lot of joint and ligament strengthening without putting on muscle mass.

0:31:16.0 Jordan Syatt: But I would imagine in order to continue to stay as lean as so many of these people are, there’s probably some real disordered eating that I’ve never really thought of before, in a group of people who deliberately need to weigh as little as possible.

0:31:30.8 Mike Vacanti: If you’re an elite rock climber and want to talk with Jordan, now’s your time. Hit him up.

0:31:35.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Very interesting.

0:31:37.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:31:38.5 Jordan Syatt: It’s so funny, dude. Since we spoke about reverse dieting and the mentorship a couple weeks ago, there was something you said that I wanted to bring up on the podcast. I remember… I don’t know if you remember. But something happened in the last month with reverse dieting, because out of nowhere, it’s blowing up in my, in my Q&A.

0:32:02.6 Jordan Syatt: Something happened where now… That’s one of the cool parts about having so many questions that come in to my question box. I get a real, I can put my thumb on the trends going on. Something happened last month where now reverse dieting is it again. And that happens every few years, things cycle back in and out.

0:32:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Right now everyone, every few questions is, “What do you think of reverse dieting? How do I reverse diet?” Da da da. It’s like, “Reverse dieting, reverse dieting.”

0:32:26.9 Jordan Syatt: But you brought up something with reverse dieting in the Q&A that I remember I said like, “Hey, let’s talk about this in the pod.” Do you remember what I’m talking about?

0:32:32.0 Mike Vacanti: I do, but before we get to that, can we lay the groundwork for what these people are asking?

0:32:40.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:32:42.6 Mike Vacanti: Because we know what the technical definition of reverse dieting is. I don’t know that the people asking are talking about the same thing that we are talking about.

0:32:50.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay. So you want to…

0:32:53.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m more asking you as the trend spotter, are these people who think that, you know, I’m eating 1500 calories per day, I weigh 240 pounds and I’m completely plateaued. And so I need to reverse diet 100 calories a week for the next ten weeks to 2500 calories and by eating more, then I’ll lose body fat. Is that what they think reverse dieting is?

0:33:18.7 Jordan Syatt: I think that’s what they believe it is. Correct.

0:33:22.2 Mike Vacanti: Okay, so we’re not talking about like a post bodybuilding show competitor.

0:33:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:33:27.6 Mike Vacanti: Who is super lean and wants to slowly… We’re not talking about that.

0:33:31.1 Jordan Syatt: No. That’s like who it’s really good for. But no, I think everyday people are seeing fitness influencers extrapolating this to everyday people and then they’re like, “Oh, like I’m 240 pounds and I think I’m eating 1500 and that’s not working. So I must need to eat more in order to increase my metabolism to lose fat.” That’s what I think is going on. There’s a clear miscommunication.

0:34:00.1 Mike Vacanti: So, great. Thank you. What’s actually happening is if someone goes from 1500 to 2500 calories over 10 weeks, 100 calories a week at 240, and they start to lose weight through this process, they start to lose body fat by increasing their calories, what is actually happening is they weren’t eating 1500 calories.

0:34:27.6 Mike Vacanti: They might have been eating 1500 calories some of the days, but then whether it’s very high calorie weekends or random binges, or just not tracking accurately and consistently, they weren’t eating 1500 calories.

0:34:41.3 Mike Vacanti: But through the process of their reverse diet, their adherence has increased. Maybe it’s because they’re starting to be on more calories and so they’re not in as huge of a deficit, so their hunger isn’t as intense, so they actually can stick with that. Whatever the case might be.

0:35:00.0 Mike Vacanti: If someone sees progress going from 1500 to 2500, it’s because they weren’t actually eating 1500, but as they increase their calories, they’re actually hitting their new intended target, 1800, 1900, 2000, 2100. Yeah.

0:35:15.3 Jordan Syatt: Do you want to talk about the really unique way of incorporating reverse dieting that you spoke about to the mentorship that I just thought was, I had never heard anyone discuss before?

0:35:26.6 Mike Vacanti: I feel like you’re setting me up with… Yeah, I’m happy to. I hadn’t thought anything of this being special or unique. But what I said was, rather than using reverse dieting for people who want to lose body fat and are struggling to lose body fat.

0:35:46.6 Mike Vacanti: Or people who, and this is the actual traditional way, someone who’s done with a cut and maybe has some psychological issues around the scale, they don’t want to jump 500 or 700, 800 calories up overnight to their “estimated maintenance”. Because they might overshoot it. They might end up gaining scale weight as a result from water and carb storage. But for whatever reason, they want to slowly increase their calories, which is another more logical, more traditional way of using reverse dieting.

0:36:18.9 Mike Vacanti: So it’s neither of those two. But the place where I use it the most is with clients who are in a calorie surplus. And the reason for that is, over time, if someone’s in a long bulk, most people are going to have to increase their calories through the course of that bulk.

0:36:39.0 Mike Vacanti: So by monitoring their waist measurements and scale weight over time, daily averages for weeks and months, and adjusting their calories to see, or rather to keep the rate of weight gain consistent. Not too high, not too low. Right?

0:37:01.8 Mike Vacanti: Because if you’re gaining, let’s say, a pound or a pound and a half a week on average, as a natural lifter, you’re gaining six plus pounds a month. Too much of that is body fat relative to muscle gain, which is not good for building muscle. It’s going to cut the time that you’re in a bulk. It’s not good for many reasons.

0:37:19.3 Mike Vacanti: So trying to keep a, you know, two to three pounds a month average rate of weight gain through experience, I’ve just noticed, requires increasing calories maybe every four to eight weeks, we’ll say. Six to eight weeks maybe.

0:37:40.0 Mike Vacanti: And that’s partly because through building muscle, BMR is increasing, which is a very small component of it, but I still think it’s a higher component of it than the evidence based community. TDEE definitely increases based on increases in NEAT from overfeeding, which, again, are going to differ.

0:38:02.5 Mike Vacanti: We talked about this maybe last pod or the one before, but based on genetic differences… Even if we don’t know the exact reason, some people become more active when in a surplus than others. And so the people who become more active are burning more calories every single day, are going to need more frequent increases in their intake.

0:38:26.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s an area where I’ve consistently used, we’ll call it reverse dieting, but increasing calories over time to help someone achieve their goal and doing it in, you know, 100 to 150 calorie increments. Right?

0:38:42.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s not like, okay, you’ve plateaued in your muscle gain phase, so now we’re going to increase your calories by 500. That’s not, it’s not a rate that makes sense. Usually it’s, let’s see. If someone’s bulking on 3100. We’re talking like a 3%, three to four to 5% increase in calorie intake.

0:39:03.6 Jordan Syatt: And what I… I love many things about this. But it’s not that the process is unique, it’s that you attributed the same name to it, even though it’s not about losing fat, it’s about gaining muscle. And I think when people hear about reverse dieting, they only think about fat loss. But attributing it to muscle gain as well, I think it gives you a more clear picture of what it is and why it’s working and how it can be helpful.

0:39:31.4 Jordan Syatt: And so I thought that was, that was just genius. And it’s really, it’s those, I know you were like, “I don’t think this is anything crazy.” I think it’s one of those nuances and things we can attribute to this methodology that actually can make a big difference in how people view it. So I thought that was worth sharing. I think it’s going to help a lot of people.

0:39:51.1 Mike Vacanti: Thank you. I’m happy to hear that. But yeah, it’s… I don’t know. Do we have anything else on the concept in general, outside of that application?

0:40:00.8 Jordan Syatt: I think in general, it’s very overrated, overplayed. I think most people in the industry will talk about it because it sounds unique. It sounds like a cool, fun, unique, exciting way to lose fat that many people don’t understand. Even the name is unique, “reverse dieting”.

0:40:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Just the name itself is like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve been dieting and it hasn’t been working. Like, what’s reverse dieting?” It’s just everything around it makes people. It has this illusion of complexity.

0:40:35.6 Jordan Syatt: So it can work, but I think the main, from a fat loss perspective or for a maybe staying lean perspective, the main group this is for is for people who are immediately post show or post photo shoot or post getting insanely lean and you slowly want to add calories back, mainly because this person is obsessed with staying insanely lean. That’s really it. That’s who it’s mainly for. It’s not for the average individual who is already not super lean.

0:41:12.6 Mike Vacanti: And wanting to lose fat.

0:41:14.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct. It’s just, it’s not for you. It’s just not for you.

0:41:17.5 Mike Vacanti: Do you, do you know who’s pushing it that has led to so many questions around it?

0:41:23.8 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:41:24.9 Mike Vacanti: Was there like one piece of content that went bonkers, or?

0:41:26.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m terribly out of touch.

0:41:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:41:28.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m really out of… I’ve realised I’m very out of touch with what’s going on in the fitness industry. People send me posts from people who I’ve never heard of all the time.

0:41:33.7 Mike Vacanti: Well, and I ask because the people who I have heard talk about reverse dieting do talk about it in a, in a good way. Whether it’s Layne Norton or whether it’s the Mind Pump guys.

0:41:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:41:49.4 Mike Vacanti: When those guys bring it up, what they’re saying makes sense. So I was wondering if there was some like, you know, crazy YouTube pre roll guy who was selling his reverse dieting course to lose fat or something.

0:42:00.5 Jordan Syatt: Probably. Probably. I mean, when Layne and Mind Pump guys talk about it, they, from what I’ve seen, they talk about it very logically and they don’t sensationalise it.

0:42:07.9 Mike Vacanti: Correct.

0:42:09.0 Jordan Syatt: There’s also the chance that they are hearing, people are hearing it from them, but then they don’t fully understand it, and so they just remember, “Oh, well, those guys spoke about reverse dieting, and that sounds really incredible and insane. And so what is it? How does it work?” Da da da da da. Because maybe they just didn’t understand it the first time they heard it. So that could be it as well. But, dude, I’m out of touch with the industry.

0:42:31.0 Mike Vacanti: No, you’re not.

0:42:31.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh dude, I am.

0:42:33.0 Mike Vacanti: You’re the most in touch because you have all those DM’s right there in your question box and you’re keeping up with the trends.

0:42:39.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m out of touch with the who’s who of it, which is a good thing. Well that’s a very…

[overlapping conversation]

0:42:46.7 Jordan Syatt: To not be part of that.

0:42:48.2 Mike Vacanti: You want to be in touch with your audience and out of touch with your competitors.

0:42:50.7 Jordan Syatt: Yes, yes. Yeah. Bro, that’s exactly right. Okay, here’s a good one. She said, “I’m 130 pounds down,” which is fucking amazing. Huge congrats.

0:43:01.9 Mike Vacanti: Let’s go.

0:43:03.7 Jordan Syatt: “I’m 130 pounds down and I’m scared shitless it’s all going to come back. Help.” What would your advice be?

0:43:10.0 Mike Vacanti: First of all, unbelievable accomplishment.

0:43:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah.

0:43:13.4 Mike Vacanti: Assuming that you wanted to and had to lose that weight to be healthier, which seems to be the case. I think my advice…

0:43:22.8 Jordan Syatt: Of course. 130 pounds.

0:43:26.8 Mike Vacanti: My advice would be…

[laughter]

0:43:30.1 Mike Vacanti: My advice would be very contextual on how this person did it, I think. Right? Did it happen in… I almost don’t think…

[overlapping conversation]

0:43:40.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. What was the method? How sustainable is that? If it’s sustainable, the advice is different than, I did this by… I actually saw this wild, I almost sent you this YouTube short this morning. I was like, dude, you should make content out of this. This person was promoting…

0:44:00.5 Jordan Syatt: You didn’t send it.

0:44:01.9 Mike Vacanti: No, I didn’t. This person was promoting a fat loss strategy that was 36 off, 12 on. And apparently, apparently that activates maximum belly fat burning mode by eating in a 12-hour window and then not eating for 36 hours. And it’s traditionally done in 30-day increments. And I’m just like, what is that doing to that person psychologically where they can’t have a single calorie every other day for an entire month?

0:44:41.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s just the fitness industry is so funny. When intermittent fasting first started, especially like Martin Berkhan, for example, so many people were against it. “No, you need to eat every few hours. You just need to eat to stoke the metabolic fire.” And then they were like, “Oh wait, maybe this does actually work. Maybe it’s like just another great strategy regardless of, it’s just like, it’s not about meal timing. And if you don’t like eating breakfast, then cool, then you can have bigger meals.”

0:45:10.0 Jordan Syatt: And then it went to, “Well, if 16 hours… 16 hours fasted then eight hours is good, then 20 hours and four hours must be better. And then if that’s good, then maybe like one day on, one day off.” And then it’s like, “Oh, you know what? Maybe like two days on, one day… “

0:45:27.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s just like, it just gets crazier and crazier, crazier and crazier and crazier until we get to people doing this shit.

0:45:31.9 Mike Vacanti: But from a lifestyle perspective, how are you supposed to not eat every other day for extended periods of time?

0:45:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Bro, I ask myself this question about basically every diet. Like carnivore, really? You’re literally just going to eat meat every day? That’s it? That’s from a lifestyle. That’s crazy to me. I mean, at least with veganism, it’s because there’s real like moral and ethical reasons behind why they’re doing it.

0:46:00.8 Mike Vacanti: What percentage, what percentage of vegans? Because yes, I think that is the respectable reason to not eat any animal products. But what percentage of vegans is that their reason, do you think?

0:46:10.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, so this is, I only know this ’cause I’ve gotten chewed out before. Vegans are all ethical based. When someone says they’re plant-based… Vegan isn’t a diet, vegan is a lifestyle, is what they say. Vegan is because they are the, is the moral and ethical reasons.

0:46:27.4 Mike Vacanti: Why do they get to define the word? Why do they get to change the definition of the word? That wasn’t what it meant five years ago.

0:46:33.4 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know who, dude, maybe it was. I don’t know. I’m not an expert in it. But that’s what I found, is when people say they’re vegan based on the morals and ethics, and people say they’re plant-based when it’s not necessarily about the morals and ethics, but they think it’s because of the health benefits of it.

0:46:50.4 Jordan Syatt: Which, anyone with a little bit of knowledge around fitness and nutrition can understand that just because you eat plant-based doesn’t mean that it’s healthier at all. There are major issues that can come with that.

0:47:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Advice for this person who lost 130 pounds…

0:47:05.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah. I forgot the fucking question.

0:47:06.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s all good. And is afraid to regain.

0:47:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so number one I would say is like, I think it’s a valid fear, right? When people are like, “Don’t be scared.” It’s like, but I am. So I think number one, it’s a valid fear. I get it. It’s a valid fear.

0:47:21.2 Jordan Syatt: I think another thing that I would say to people who are worried about this is the good news is like, now you know how to do it, right? And I’m assuming it’s not something insanely, insanely extreme. Like a, that Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead juice cleanse that so many people have tried. My brother tried that.

0:47:38.5 Mike Vacanti: Oh, really?

0:47:39.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Not good. Don’t no one do it. It’s really bad. But my brother’s doing way better now. But you don’t want to do one of the juice cleanses. What I’ll say is this. Assuming it’s not insanely restrictive, now you know how to do it, which is a major, major win. ‘Cause even if you gain back 20 pounds, cool. Now you know how to do it.

0:48:05.3 Jordan Syatt: Now what I’ll also say is you’re probably going to gain some of it back. And by that it means could be three pounds, five pounds, 10 pounds. There will probably be a little bit of a regain. That’s normal.

0:48:16.6 Jordan Syatt: ‘Cause maintenance is a little bit of a fluctuation. Anyone can fluctuate between five, 10 pounds, top or bottom, like from their high to their low. Don’t go into a spiral as soon as you gain a couple of pounds. Don’t freak out because, “Oh my God, I’ve gained a couple bounce. So that means I’m going to gain 128 pounds back,” because you gained two. That’s not how it works. It’s normal to have fluctuations.

0:48:40.7 Jordan Syatt: I would clearly establish, “Hey, this is my top and this is my bottom. This is like the top end of the range that I’m okay being at.” Could be five, seven pounds above where you are now. And this is the bottom end of the range where I want to be.

0:48:55.3 Jordan Syatt: If you get to that top end of the range, you have a non negotiable, like, “I’m back on, I’m back on my shit. I’m tracking my calories, I’m weighing my food, until I get back down to a more comfortable range that isn’t here.” That’s what I would recommend. And obviously this is all assuming it’s more of a sustainable approach.

0:49:13.7 Jordan Syatt: But I’ll also say there are people who’ve lost a lot of weight doing something very unsustainable and then they switch to something more sustainable and they keep the weight off. There are… That happens. I don’t think it’s the majority. No. I don’t think. I know it’s not the majority.

0:49:26.0 Jordan Syatt: But like, that still happens. You can still do it. You just got to be aware of portion control. I think the best thing you can do is keep track of your calories. Track your calories like. It’s the one…

0:49:41.3 Jordan Syatt: Nothing is surefire, ’cause even if you’re tracking, you can still overeat, you can still say, “Fuck it.” But it is the most surefire and the most accurate way to keep yourself in check. As long as you’re honest about it.

0:49:51.6 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna say one last thing because I know then we have a hard stop here in a minute. I agree with all of that. I will just add, consistently strength training and making a plan to, even if it’s twice a week, two days a week, or three days a week, but making a plan to consistently strength train for the rest of your life is going to buy you so much leeway in terms of that weight going back on.

0:50:16.1 Mike Vacanti: Because even if you’re in a surplus for a period of time, if you’re consistently strength training, you’re turning over glycogen stores. Let’s say you gain three pounds over a month. A decent percentage of that is muscle tissue. There’s so many benefits to, there’s so many benefits for maintaining a healthy body weight that come from consistent strength training. I would make that a top priority going forward.

0:50:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Thank you everyone for listening. This was a great podcast back. We hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please leave a five-star review. We need them. We need them after this week.

0:50:51.5 Mike Vacanti: We need them bad.

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