Episode 188: Mike’s Angry Apple Picking Trip, Roided Out Influencers, How to Speak to Unhealthy Family Members, Coffee Before Breakfast, & More…

0:00:12.0 Mike Vacanti: Hello Jordan.

0:00:13.5 Jordan Syatt: What’s up Michael?

0:00:16.3 Mike Vacanti: Episode 188 on The How To Become A Personal Trainer Podcast what are you sipping on? You have two drinks there at least?

0:00:24.6 Jordan Syatt: Actually I have three. I’ve got coffee, right? We just got off a mentorship Q&A, went super well.

0:00:28.0 Mike Vacanti: It was a good one.

0:00:29.1 Jordan Syatt: So just have some coffee. Actually, I technically only have two. The water is gone. Just finished up this bottle of water and I’ve got a fresh Diet Coker.

0:00:40.5 Mike Vacanti: Wow this…

0:00:41.5 Jordan Syatt: Fresh out of the fridge nice and crisp.

0:00:42.8 Mike Vacanti: You’re stacking Diet Coke with coffee?

0:00:47.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, a little sweet, a little bitter.

0:00:48.9 Mike Vacanti: You’re chasing caffeine with caffeine?

0:00:51.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:00:53.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s a real power play.

0:00:55.1 Jordan Syatt: I went to the cardiologist yesterday and they said everything was good. So caffeine up. Why not?

0:00:58.2 Mike Vacanti: Dude congrats on Slim Jim, bro.

0:01:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, thank you man. Slim Jim…

0:01:03.5 Mike Vacanti: Baby number two.

0:01:05.4 Jordan Syatt: What a blessing she’s funny. She’s just making all sorts of faces. Babies are funny ’cause their eyes, they don’t have control of their eyes their eyes are going all over the place and everything. And yeah, my toddler Old Abe, she’s become a real menace ever since she was born. She just is not happy about not having all of the attention. So she’s become a real menace lately.

0:01:26.0 Mike Vacanti: That makes sense.

0:01:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s good. Thank you, man. Thank you very much.

0:01:32.2 Mike Vacanti: I think people want to know like names are Abe for a girl born in 2022 and then Jim for a girl born in 2024. Where do you and your wife come up with these names just out of curiosity?

0:01:48.7 Jordan Syatt: So Abe is because she’s named after my great grandfather, Abraham.

0:01:56.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Makes sense. I like that.

0:02:00.2 Jordan Syatt: What happened is I named her, I’m sorry. We named her after my great grandfather, Abraham who escaped Russia when he was 12. So when he was… Do you know this story?

0:02:11.1 Mike Vacanti: I think so. Yes. But keep going.

0:02:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So Czar Nicholas II was putting Jewish boys in the front lines of the army at 12 years old to try and kill them off. Jews were not considered citizens of Russia they could only live in certain places hold certain jobs, and Czar Nicholas was like, all right, we’re just gonna put them in the front lines using them as cannon fodder. So when my great-grandfather Abraham turned 12, his family was like, you’ve got to leave. And so he only knew Russian, he didn’t know any English, he didn’t know anything, and he somehow escaped Russia, made it to the United States and built a life for himself. And he would never tell our family where in Russia he was from he always thought they were spies and they were gonna come find him and bring him back. He never was able to communicate with his family again so they don’t know what happened to him. He doesn’t know what happened to them.

0:03:02.1 Mike Vacanti: So I have to stop you because I thought I was making a joke ’cause those aren’t actually your daughter’s names Abe and Jim But now I feel like you just told me a story that’s real and I can’t tell if you’re running with the joke or if that all is real.

0:03:14.7 Jordan Syatt: This is 100% a real story.

0:03:17.5 Mike Vacanti: Wow, dude I did not know this.

0:03:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, really? Yeah, this is a real story.

0:03:23.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Wow.

0:03:24.1 Jordan Syatt: So we named her after him. And then I told the story on social media. And a number of people were like, wait, you named your daughter Abraham. And I was like, no, I didn’t name her Abraham. I named her after Abraham. So it’s a different name but that’s who she’s named after. So after that happened, I decided to start calling her Old Abe ’cause there were people who thought that I actually named her Abraham.

0:03:48.8 Mike Vacanti: Bro, now I’m very confused because I don’t understand how me knowing her actual name.

0:03:55.3 Jordan Syatt: So it’s the [redacted]

0:04:00.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay, okay. We can cut that out too. We can bleep that out.

0:04:01.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay. We’ll bleep that out. And then my second daughter is named after my wife’s great uncle, Jimmy. And Jimmy is a war hero who fought in World War II. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge which is one of the most famous battles of the entire World War II. It was Hitler’s last ditch effort to try and get the momentum back. And it’s called Battle of the Bulge because he sent hundreds of thousands of his military to try and break through the Allies’ lines in the Ardennes on the Western Front. And he created a huge bulge in their line. And it looked like he was actually gonna potentially be able to win and then the Allies overtook him. And that’s really when Germany lost the war at the end of Battle of the Bulge. Obviously, it wasn’t when they actually ended but that was the last final attempt that Hitler could make. And Jimmy led a number of counterattacks and he saved a bunch of soldiers and he was eventually killed a couple of days before the battle ended. But when I went to my wife’s grandparents house in Atlanta a year or so ago, her grandfather showed me what the United States military sent his family basically outlining all of the attacks he orchestrated the counterattacks, what he did, how he planned them.

0:05:28.5 Jordan Syatt: And it was just so cool to read what the military had given his family showing him what a war hero he was. So we named our second daughter after him and his name was Jimmy. So then I was like, all right, well, what’s a good name for Jimmy? Slim Jim. And that’s how we got to…

0:05:44.3 Mike Vacanti: Man, that joke went awry. I just thought I was making a joke and I walked into a history lesson.

0:05:55.0 Jordan Syatt: You’re like, “motherfucker…”

0:05:56.0 Mike Vacanti: What happened there? I don’t even know how this podcast just started. Wow. All right.

0:06:05.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re like this is so not how I anticipated the beginning of this podcast.

0:06:08.3 Mike Vacanti: At all. At all. Not even remotely. Well amazing I’m very happy for you guys. How’s everything else? Get us back on track.

0:06:20.5 Jordan Syatt: Well, amazing. How are you, bro? What’s up with you?

0:06:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I’m no longer training to be a mass monster. I’ve given up on the bulk life. It’s not for me. I had an epiphany…

0:06:39.5 Jordan Syatt: I thought… Oh okay.

0:06:43.4 Mike Vacanti: I had an epiphany in the gym, and the volume and intensity required to add appreciable muscle once you have a certain amount of muscle when you’re not using steroids and you’re actually natty at my age and time in life and really for anyone I’m bringing back the aesthetics era. The natty, aesthetic, lean with a reasonable amount of muscle and feeling good era. Partly because I just want to but also you just end up not… It’s hard to keep a bulk dial in terms of feeling good, in terms of not overfeeding. When you’re overfeeding, you end up more lethargic throughout the day like being in a surplus in general. It’s hard on the joints. I might be showing my age a little bit but it’s time to bring back the natty aesthetics era. So that’s what we’re doing.

0:07:39.8 Jordan Syatt: So what does this change the most? Does it change your nutrition the most, your training the most?

0:07:42.1 Mike Vacanti: It makes my training more enjoyable because it’s lower volume. So each workout is shorter in duration, essentially. Fewer total sets. Whether I’m gonna do that by reducing the number of sets per exercise or the number of exercises per workout. I haven’t fully fleshed out but one of the two. And I’m gonna eat fewer calories and so I won’t be over fed. I might be in a slight surplus on training days and a slight deficit to a moderate deficit on rest days. When you’re coming out of a muscle gain phase it’s easy, like nutrition’s easy because you don’t want to be eating that many calories anyway, and so that’s where we’re headed.

0:08:19.8 Jordan Syatt: So you don’t even care about adding more muscle. It’s more like maintaining the muscle that you have?

0:08:26.1 Mike Vacanti: Sure. And honestly I don’t… Yeah. I don’t even care that much. I’m not doing everything to optimize. I care most about feeling good.

0:08:35.0 Jordan Syatt: I like that.

0:08:36.3 Mike Vacanti: If I were to lose eight pounds of body fat and also lose zero pounds of muscle versus also lose one pound of muscle over a three to four month window I’d be quite indifferent.

0:08:54.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. No big deal either way. As long as your shoulders feel good, your back feels good, your neck feels good…

0:08:58.0 Mike Vacanti: Everything.

0:08:58.3 Jordan Syatt: And you can move. Yeah.

0:09:00.8 Mike Vacanti: And strength is there and aesthetics. I think I actually am starting to get turned off of, I don’t want to start name dropping. I feel like a lot of, we’ll call them muscle monster type super steroid dudes have gotten very popular over the last one to three years… [redacted] People like this.

0:09:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:09:21.2 Mike Vacanti: Who I like both of them and… Do you? But it just has become uninteresting and unappealing to me personally.

0:09:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Are you gonna start doing sprints?

0:09:33.4 Mike Vacanti: Am I going to start doing sprints? Why do you ask that question?

0:09:37.2 Jordan Syatt: I feel like, I have a number of different reasons for asking. I feel like sprints are something that as we get older we stop doing it, right? You and I have had conversations in the past in which we’ve spoken about how much we’ve loved sprinting at different points in our lives especially as younger athletes. And I feel like if you’re feeling really good and you’re not overfeeding and lethargic and you just feel quick on your feet maybe you just want to do some sprints. And it might actually independently make you feel really good as well. This might be another fun thing to add into your training once a week.

0:10:22.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s not at the top of my list but I think for zone five cardio, I’m more likely to add some kind of striking to the regimen. But I won’t rule out a good sprint. I also don’t want to give you any excuses after I beat you in our 100 meter dash like oh, you’ve been sprinting. I’d rather be untrained heading into it.

0:10:49.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that wouldn’t be an excuse. You should be fully peaked and trained. There shouldn’t be an issue.

0:10:51.1 Mike Vacanti: No, no, we both need to go in in our natural state, not training for it. Unless you’re… Have you been doing sprints?

0:11:01.5 Jordan Syatt: I hurt my back. I haven’t been doing any sprints.

0:11:03.2 Mike Vacanti: Do you wanna talk about that?

0:11:03.9 Jordan Syatt: No, I mean no not extensively. I hurt my back actually striking. My back’s just been fucked. So I started getting a PT the other day working my… She thinks I have a bulging disc. So yeah, I’m working towards, so no, I’m not sprinting. In fact, I am Injured and I’ll still beat you on that dash.

0:11:22.2 Mike Vacanti: Wow. Wow. I’m not even gonna address that outrageous claim. I’m gonna pretend it didn’t happen. I’m gonna let you get fully back to 100% health and then we can do the sprint. I’m not even gonna address the fact that you want to do this race while you’re injured. It seems like stand-up comedy to me is what you just did there.

0:11:47.8 Jordan Syatt: “Seems like you’re just a little child and you don’t even know what you just said.”

0:11:49.8 Mike Vacanti: You literally don’t even know what you’re saying right now so I’m gonna let it go. No, that sucks though. Back injuries are not fun at all. I’m sorry, bro.

0:12:00.1 Jordan Syatt: No, they’re the worst. Other things are worse. But it sucks, but it’s okay. I’m still able to train. I’m still working around it.

0:12:09.6 Mike Vacanti: At least there’s a cause, right?

0:12:12.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:12:13.7 Mike Vacanti: When you don’t know the reason for back pain and can’t get rid of it and it’s chronic and extensive lasts for long periods of time that’s…

0:12:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:12:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Really… Thankfully I haven’t dealt with it. You had something that you wanted to discuss.

0:12:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, the food.

0:12:31.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, good memory, man.

0:12:32.5 Jordan Syatt: I only remembered it because I had one this morning and I was like oh shit, I wanna talk about this in the podcast. So you and I spoke about somewhat recently how I tried the pre-prepared meals, didn’t like them from the first company. We got them again from a different company just because my wife gave birth and it’s difficult. And we still wanted to eat high-quality food, we didn’t want to be ordering out all the time. So we ordered from a different company. I’m happy to say the name I’m not sponsored. It’s called Catered Fit I think is what it’s called. Oh my gosh, dude, they are so good.

0:13:11.1 Mike Vacanti: Are they local or are they nationwide?

0:13:11.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I think it’s nationwide.

0:13:14.7 Mike Vacanti: Let’s find out. I’m putting my address in.

0:13:16.9 Jordan Syatt: I mean they’re based out of Florida.

0:13:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Oh, “congratulations, we deliver to your area.” All right Catered Fit, I’m sorry I doubted you.

0:13:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude they’re awesome. I’ve been blown away at how… So I remember you said ’cause I was looking at the actual chef one’s, and you’re like yeah, but those calories and the fat, the macros are just really shit. And so I sort of resigned myself to thinking that there’s all like the ones that were fitness based were gonna be bad. The first one we got was just really dry and it wasn’t good and the portions of the vegetables wasn’t good. And I don’t know. And it was crazy because that was the most recommended by far. And this one I didn’t get any recommendations for this one. My wife ended up finding this one. And dude they’re moist, they’re filling, they’re high quality, the macros are great. They’re all between 400 to 500 calories, at least the ones that we got. 20 to 35 grams of protein, steak, and they had these, I forget what it was. A certain type of steak, salmon, meatballs, just super good. And you can see on the website, Catered Fit. Again, I’m not sponsored. My wife was like, do you wanna be sponsored by them? I was like, I mean I would. I love these meals but I’m not sponsored and I haven’t even reached out to them, but oh my gosh, they’re just fantastic. I could not recommend them enough.

0:14:51.6 Mike Vacanti: What’s your favorite meal from them?

0:14:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Buffalo chicken meatballs.

0:14:54.3 Mike Vacanti: Sounds pretty legit.

0:14:57.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, they were so good.

0:14:58.5 Mike Vacanti: Was there a veggie with them?

0:15:01.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, shaved Brussels sprout salad with apple and crispy sweet potato tots.

0:15:09.0 Mike Vacanti: Ooh, give me total macros for the meal.

0:15:10.3 Jordan Syatt: 455 calories, 33 protein, 41 carb, 17 fat.

0:15:14.6 Mike Vacanti: Wow.

0:15:15.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, super good. Super, super, super, super good.

0:15:18.0 Mike Vacanti: Now that I’m not a mass monster, I’m going to… I can reduce the size of my lunches and Catered Fit might be a good option for lunches.

0:15:24.4 Jordan Syatt: My mom liked them too.

0:15:28.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, nice.

0:15:30.1 Jordan Syatt: My mom’s been here and she was having them and she was very hesitant. And she was like, wow, this was actually surprisingly good. And that’s not an easy woman to please. You know what I mean? For her to be like, wow, that’s good from a Jewish mother like that, that was all I needed. It’s amazing. It’s super, super good. Again, I would still rather a home-cooked meal but this is a very good meal. I was blown away. I was really blown away.

0:16:04.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know how close of attention you’ve paid to grocery prices over the last one to three years but looking at this so they have, obviously the more meals you order, the cheaper per meal. But even their cheaper option, one of their cheaper options, which is $12 a meal, if you think about the cost of ingredients required to make that type of meal and the fact that you can’t really make it in a single serving, you’re not going to buy like one chicken breast and one serving of Brussels sprouts. So you’d be making multiple meals. So if you home cook multiple meals, what I’m getting at is the cost difference between actually grocery shopping and making it yourself versus having this delivered is actually smaller than I think most people would imagine which makes it more appealing.

0:17:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow, I didn’t even know that. Yeah. And you know I’m not bullshitting you I spoke very bluntly about the first company and I didn’t like it at all and this company is just really, really, it tastes fresh.

0:17:14.1 Mike Vacanti: If we spent five minutes talking about this and you were BSing us and I ordered this and it wasn’t good. I’d be very upset.

0:17:20.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, and that would be worthwhile, I would understand that but I mean…

0:17:24.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, we know you’re not BSing us.

0:17:25.0 Jordan Syatt: You should try it, let me know what you think. But first, I sort of want you to try the other company first to have context, right? So you can be like…

0:17:30.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m good. I don’t want the bad company.

0:17:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay, so here’s the first. Yeah, I know.

0:17:37.2 Mike Vacanti: I understand, I’ll pretend I just ate a bad meal and then I’ll have this one.

0:17:39.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, okay, good good.

0:17:40.5 Mike Vacanti: I got you. Expectations versus reality. Cool. I like it, it’s also a good way compared to fast food for example. Even like a fast casual which can be reasonably healthy, this is a good way to get more micronutrients in. You’re getting Brussels sprouts, you’re getting sweet potatoes. You’ve got to be in a big city to be getting those in a fast casual setting which is one of the things I love about New York is around every corner you have cooked carrots and sweet potatoes and grilled chicken and you can put that into a bowl. It’s going to cost you $20, but you can at least get that if you want to. I can’t get that in a 200-mile radius where I live now.

0:18:23.8 Jordan Syatt: You love New York.

0:18:28.7 Mike Vacanti: I love that aspect of it. I don’t love many other parts of that city. You love New York. You love it there. You walked around barefoot.

0:18:33.1 Jordan Syatt: You love New York.

0:18:35.5 Mike Vacanti: You did grounding in Manhattan literally on top of garbage and human faeces. You were earthing and you put it on your story.

0:18:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh man. Yeah, that was bad.

0:18:50.7 Mike Vacanti: Should we fire up some questions?

0:18:52.4 Jordan Syatt: “Does it really matter if I have coffee before I eat in the morning?” No. This is a huge thing right now. I don’t know if you know about this Mike because you’re not on social media.

0:19:04.9 Mike Vacanti: I do.

0:19:05.4 Jordan Syatt: Do you know about this?

0:19:06.0 Mike Vacanti: I do because it was Chris Williamson’s main pitch for the electrolyte he promotes on his podcast was that caffeine is an adenosine blocker and that you actually wanna have salt for your first 90 minutes of the day and that you shouldn’t actually have caffeine until after 90 minutes after the time you’ve woken up. Which I tried for I think one day and just ruined the joy of the morning. Like having even a few sips of coffee just a tradition upon waking up for me personally. So my personal opinion is you can drink coffee, not whenever you want to but you don’t have to wait 90 minutes to drink coffee. And there’s something to be said about over optimizing your life, right? You can do some things, not because they have 400 RCTs backing them up but just because you enjoy doing them. And drinking coffee when I wake up, for me personally, is one of those things.

0:20:16.1 Jordan Syatt: I can’t stand these life optimization. “Okay, you need to wake up at this time to make sure your circadian rhythms are all good and then you need to have this type of thing in order to block this and this type of thing to integrate that. And then you need to…” It’s like, I would love, you know Candid Camera? [singing] “You’re on Candid Camera!” You know that shit? I would love to watch some of these life optimization people be on a Candid Camera so that we can see what they actually do. What does their life actually look like? There’s no fucking way that, number one, that they’re doing all this stuff. And you have to remember, if they’re doing all this stuff, if they do all of these health optimization things and it takes up a pretty significant portion of their life, that means they’re not optimal in other areas of their life ’cause there has to be give and take.

0:21:09.3 Jordan Syatt: And if they’re spending so much time doing this life optimization shit, then it means they’re neglecting other things in their life. I can’t fucking stand how people… The only, you know why this happens? I’ll tell you why. The only reason this stuff is so big on social media, YouTube, Instagram, why these these posts are being made is because people are looking for something unique to say to go viral. It’s like their main goal is to go viral. Their main goal is not to help. Their main goal is to go viral and get a lot of views because it build, it gets their sponsors because it drives more followers, which can get them more money. Their main goal is more followers, more money. “What can I say to make that happen?” That’s the goal.

0:21:51.7 Jordan Syatt: And when your goal is to help people, it’s hard to compute that someone else’s goal would be different than yours. And so this whole concept of don’t have coffee before, like for the first 90 minutes, it didn’t stem from someone actually wanting to help people. It stemmed from someone being like, what can I say that people haven’t heard before that is gonna get a lot of people talking. And then people hear that and then people who actually do wanna help people hear it ’cause they trust the person who said it. And then they start spewing it thinking that it’s actually true and then it proliferates like fucking cancer. And then all these people think that this is true and this is how misinformation spreads rapidly fast on social media. And the whole concept is like, yeah, it spikes your cortisol, da, da, da. It’s people who don’t know how to spell cortisol. They don’t know the function of cortisol, they don’t know what it does. The only thing they know about it is that it’s the stress hormone that’s literally all they know about cortisol, all of a sudden are now trying to prevent spikes in cortisol. It’s like shut the fuck up, coffee in the morning is totally fine.

0:23:04.6 Mike Vacanti: I like it. I like it a lot. Good rant. I would say even I agree that there is a ton of that going on. I’d be willing to concede that there is good science to support the fact that there are benefits to delaying your coffee. And that still doesn’t mean even if let’s just pretend that’s true. That still doesn’t mean that you have to delay your coffee. That’s like, if that’s true, it’s like the 900,000th most important thing that you need to be doing. And focusing on things one through five to start rather than on thing 900,000 is a much better approach, especially if you enjoy drinking coffee first thing in the morning. Not to mention the benefits of drinking coffee first thing in the morning if you wanna lose body fat…

0:23:54.7 Jordan Syatt: Exactly.

0:23:55.4 Mike Vacanti: Appetite is a, you know, let’s say you’re overweight or obese, which is a significant percentage of the population. One tool that’s been very, very effective for many of my clients, your clients, many people in the world is drinking caffeine and pushing their first meal back, not doing any sort of crazy fasting schedule, but just not having that first meal of the day, those first calories of the day until an hour or two hours or three hours after waking up. That can be very effective. It extends the eight hours of fasting that you’re sleeping, maybe an hour or two before bed, and then then a couple hours when you wake up. Makes it easier to limit total calories. And it’s easier if you have 100 milligrams or 120 milligrams or 150 milligrams of caffeine via a delicious cup of coffee. First thing in the morning when you wake up while you scroll on your phone, hang out with your kids, get them breakfast, do some work, whatever it is.

0:24:48.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude. Yes. And you hit on such a good point where it’s like there might be some science showing that there’s benefits to delaying it, but there’s also science showing that depending on the goal, there are benefits to not delaying it. Like there are pros and cons, so there are probably pros to delaying it and there are pros to not delaying it. And you’ve gotta decide which one is right for you. But for this just blanket fear mongering of you shouldn’t ever have it within the first 90 minutes or you shouldn’t have it on empty stomach or whatever, it’s like, shut the fuck up, dude. It’s just so obnoxious.

0:25:22.8 Mike Vacanti: By the way. I think it’s the best on an empty stomach.

0:25:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah.

0:25:27.9 Mike Vacanti: I almost don’t like coffee after breakfast or not nearly as much as I do before breakfast.

0:25:33.8 Jordan Syatt: No, I get a way better caffeine stimulant effect on an empty stomach.

0:25:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, absolutely.

0:25:40.7 Jordan Syatt: The next question was, “influencer taking steroids saying it’s for optimal hormone levels/health… Thoughts?” There’s many ways you can go with this one.

0:25:52.4 Mike Vacanti: The majority of influencers who take steroids are doing it because it’s going to make them more money.

0:26:04.7 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:26:07.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And so if they wanna wrap this up, you know, who’s actually a good example of this? What’s that kid’s name? This European kid? No, I actually give him a lot of credit because he became self-aware. He’s in that like kind of Rob Lipsett crew of YouTube guys. He’s an interesting name, Merjin? I’m gonna look it up because that’s not it.

0:26:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, I know who it is. I like Rob.

0:26:33.2 Mike Vacanti: You know what I’m talking about?

0:26:33.7 Jordan Syatt: I know exactly who you’re talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like Rob. I don’t know the other guy but I like Rob a lot.

0:26:38.8 Mike Vacanti: So this kid this is a few years back basically was natural and very lean and working super hard on his business and growing his brand and was also having a lot of fun, kind of partying or not optimizing sleep, living his life basically between business and socializing, social life, nightlife, whatever. He was in a position where his testosterone levels were very low. He was extremely lean, he wasn’t getting enough sleep, his nutrition wasn’t dialed in, so his T levels were low. And so he got on testosterone to optimize his levels and ended up regretting it and made some YouTube videos about, I’ll find his YouTube and we’ll throw a link to the video in the show show notes, but made some videos about how he regretted that decision. I think that’s a great example of someone who’s honest and self-aware about the position they were in and then took a step back from it rather than just leaning harder into it.

0:27:44.0 Mike Vacanti: And we, I see this all the time in non-influencers as well, which is guys who are living very suboptimally, right? Like not training consistently, not getting enough sleep, vaping, drinking tons of alcohol, not eating a nutritionally dense diet just not doing any of the right things. Carrying excess body fat and then get their testosterone levels checked and realize they’re low. And step number one is, oh, I better get on 200 mgs of test a week. It’s like, well, step number one might be sleeping seven and a half hours instead of four hours a night. Step number one, might be having zero to five drinks a week instead of 30 to 40 drinks a week. There are all these steps that you can take to “optimize your testosterone levels that aren’t injecting testosterone”. So there’s a handful of scattered brain thoughts about the question.

0:28:40.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I think it’s important especially for consumers to be aware of it and the way that this woman phrased like influencer taking story and saying it’s for optimal hormone level/health thoughts. I think that there’s an argument to be made or not an argument to be made. It’s not even an argument. I think it’s clear that some people need hormone replacement therapy for their health. I think they do. I think some men do really like they need…

0:29:12.6 Mike Vacanti: 25 year olds?

0:29:13.0 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, no. I mean, not most 25 year olds.

0:29:17.2 Mike Vacanti: No.

0:29:18.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s for sure.

0:29:21.0 Mike Vacanti: A rounding error to zero 25 year olds.

0:29:24.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct. Maybe from like 40 on. And 40 is pretty young still for whatever it’s worth. But I would say from like 40 on, probably 50 up, but generally we could say 40 on, and they’re outliers and they’re 20s and 30s, but very rarely where it’s important in the same way that women can get on hormone replacement therapy for… It’s funny, we were talking in the mentorship, they’re like double standards. One of them is in reverse. Is how it’s like a double, like women will get on hormone replacement therapy and it’s like doctors don’t bat an eye at it. It’s not an issue. But an older guy who has serious testosterone issues, like is having trouble finding a way to get testosterone because of the cultural views or testosterone judgments by it. Yeah. So there are men who need it to optimize their health. But what you said, I think is the most accurate perspective, which is especially when we’re talking about like influencers.

0:30:36.6 Jordan Syatt: Most influencers are not doing it for their health and hormone optimization. They’re doing it because they want an insane physique that will number one, boost their own ego that will fuel their, minimize their own insecurities which many influencers have severe body dysmorphia and insecurities around how they look especially when they’re comparing themselves to other influencers who are also on steroids, which fuels them to take more and more and more and more. And then also as a by-product of getting a crazy physique also making more money, more sponsorships, more views. There’s no question that you could have two influencers making the exact same educational content, but one of them has a physique that’s just fucking outrageous.

0:31:29.1 Jordan Syatt: That influencer will inherently get more views just simply because oh my god, that’s a crazy physique that they have. So there are monetary benefits and social proof benefits that come from that. I just think it’s also worthwhile to know, I’m not talking about from the influencer perspective, I’m talking more from like your neighbor down the street, 55 years old.

0:31:55.9 Mike Vacanti: 55 is completely…

0:31:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Might actually legitimately need it and don’t judge them based on like, maybe they actually need it. Whereas someone who’s an influencer who’s like, they look like they’ve been roided out their whole fucking life and they got traps to their ears and they’re like 4%, 6% body fat year round and like, yeah, I’m just on TRT. It’s like, no. All right, come on. That’s different. We’re talking about just the average everyday individual. It’s worth noting that it can be used from a health optimization perspective.

0:32:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Yes. With older individuals generally. And basically always. Like you said over I think 55 guy who lives down the street is a great example. I will still say that usually 55-year-old down the street is not doing the right things to optimize his testosterone…

0:32:46.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:32:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Before he starts on it. He’d be better off making those lifestyle changes to the effect that or to the degree that he can, before getting on. But yes, there are people who it does benefit them. But again, that’s not even optimization. That’s I have done everything I can, I’m aging. I’m on the low end of normal or below the normal range, and I wanna get into the middle or upper middle part of the range, completely legitimate usage. When I hear influencer who’s optimizing and saying he’s optimizing that isn’t where my mind goes. What I love that you brought up was the insecure part because I address the business side of things but not the personal side of things. The reason why I have never used steroids despite being tempted and despite seeing people who were on and being like, man, I would love to look like that is because I am fortunate enough for whatever reason to be able to see the hedonic adaptation that would take place if I started. If I would’ve started when I was 30 and like thought about it, starting 150 milligrams of test a week just to get a little bit higher and saw some boost in my physique. I know myself, I know my addictive personality. I know how hedonic adaptation works. I know that when you have a Nissan and then you buy a Ferrari, a month later, your Ferrari feels like your Nissan and then you need a better car and then you need the Huron or the Uron or I don’t know, Rolls-Royce, whatever.

0:34:22.0 Mike Vacanti: Like when you have the $500,000 house and your neighbor has this, then you want the $750. Then you want $1.5 million. Once you have that, “oh, this person has this,” this is how life works. And so I know that if I started on small dose of test, that would become my new normal very quickly. And I’d be like, “what else can I do?” What, “oh, I can go higher test.” “Oh, what else can I do?” “Oh, I can do a cycle. What does a cycle mean?” “Oh, I’d probably hire someone. ‘You take this compound, you take this compound,’ oh cool. ‘On top of the test.'” “Great,” I do that. “Oh, I look even better.” And then I come off cycle and I’m a little bit down, I’m a little depressed. I don’t feel as good. I’m like, “oh, next cycle I’m really gonna get after it.” That would be the future. Like what I’m trying to say is that guys often start steroids ’cause they’re insecure about their body but steroids don’t fix that insecurity.

0:35:08.3 Jordan Syatt: They make it worse.

0:35:10.4 Mike Vacanti: Maybe temporarily make worse. Yeah. They make it worse. They make it worse. And you can then become addicted to a dangerous drug if not used in the right way or used in too high of dosages. So yeah.

0:35:22.5 Jordan Syatt: Not good. Reminds me of Louie Simmons, I forget who he was talking about but Louie Simmons had a quote in this, I think the movie was Bigger, Stronger, Faster. It was all about steroids. It was a really good documentary.

0:35:33.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. With Mark Bell, right?

0:35:36.4 Jordan Syatt: The Bells. Yeah. Yeah. Was he maybe he was talking about Mark Bell. Chris Bell?

0:35:40.9 Mike Vacanti: Chris.

0:35:41.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like both. They’re both amazing. I really like them a lot and maybe he was talking about them, but one of the people asked Louie, he was like, “Hey, this guy got off steroids, what do you think?” And Louie was just like, “he’ll be back on.” And the guy’s like, “what do you mean he got off?” He’s like, “no, once you go on. You might go off for period, but you’re always gonna come back.” It’s just like once you feel what it’s like to have this super physiological amount of testosterone that allows you to build muscle easier, get stronger easier, have more vitality, have more energy, and then you see the results that come from it. And you see not just the results personally, but then you get people asking you about it. How do you do this? How do you do that? Everything that comes from it, it’s just like, why would you ever get off this super juice? Why would you ever stop taking it ever? And then like you said, you see so many lives ruined because of it. They just keep taking more, they keep taking more. It’s never enough. And there’s always someone bigger. There’s always someone stronger. There’s always someone leaner.

0:36:38.7 Jordan Syatt: Always. And I really respect Phil Heath. He came out within the last few months and Phil Heath is arguably the greatest bodybuilder of all time. And he made a whole video. He is like, I’ve got really bad body dysmorphia. And this guy, he sat in his car and he said, not only do I have really bad body dysmorphia, he’s like, it’s gotten really bad over the last two years during arguably the pinnacle of his career as a physique competitor. It’s like it’s just it’s crazy. It’s crazy. And so, yeah, I think you’re 100% right the discussion around the hedonic adaptation and I definitely struggle with that for sure. I think we all do to some degree. But to be self-aware like that and to understand that is super important. And I think it’s separate. I’m glad this person who asked the question made the note of like this is the influencer. You have to separate the influencer from the average everyday person. Again, the 55-year-old dude who might actually need it, and I’m not saying that some influencers might not need it, there could be that 55-year-old influencer who actually potentially needs it, but that’s not the norm.

0:37:48.3 Mike Vacanti: Correct, correct. When I think of influencers, I probably this is incorrect, but I don’t think of a 55-year-old, whereas nowadays, there are plenty of them so maybe I should. But I think a fitness influencer combined with steroid as like in your 20s. By the way, Dante Trudel said… is his first name Dante? Made an Instagram post a little while back…

0:38:13.1 Jordan Syatt: You love his Instagram.

0:38:16.3 Mike Vacanti: I do hop on his Instagram a lot.

0:38:17.8 Jordan Syatt: You love his Instagram.

0:38:20.2 Mike Vacanti: You know what? I must…

0:38:20.3 Jordan Syatt: I think you reference his Instagram more than anyone else’s Instagram to me.

0:38:22.9 Mike Vacanti: Do you know why? I think you’re right, and he posts, you know shout-out Dante if you’re listening, but he posts like it’s 2013 on Instagram kind of. Really long captions that go into comments but I love the information. And because I don’t scroll on Instagram, I’ll go on Instagram to check The Personal Trainer Podcast, and then I’ll get one post, like the first one when I open Instagram before I go to search to go to @personaltrainerpodcast. And he doesn’t post very much, I don’t think. But when I see his, I’m always like, Man, this is good stuff. And basically, he listed a list of, I don’t even know how many names, 50, 60, it might have been even more names of body builders over the last several years who have died well before their time.

0:39:14.0 Jordan Syatt: A huge list you sent me. You’re like dude look, it was like a huge list and it was just for the last few years.

0:39:20.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And he even admitted. He’s like, this is just the number I can think of right now, who I know off the top of my head. I know we talk about this every time this time of year comes, but the last couple of days, the weather has been amazing here. Get that hint to fall in the air, late August.

0:39:38.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh I thought you said it was dreary today.

0:39:40.2 Mike Vacanti: Yesterday and the day before, and the sun just popped out, so it made me think of yesterday.

0:39:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, fall time in that area is really nice. Do you go apple-picking?

0:39:53.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:39:53.5 Jordan Syatt: Why do you say it like that?

0:39:54.2 Mike Vacanti: Last year, we were scheduled to go apple-picking as a family with Eva and my sister, my nephew. Everyone went and it was immediately after the Vikings-Chargers game, and it was week three and Kirk through for 370 yards, three touchdowns. We ended up losing 28-24. Keenan Allen had 20 receptions for 200 plus yards, just let us up and it made us go 0-3. So we lost week one to the Bucs, Eagles on Monday Night Football, we lost week two on this Justin Jefferson fumble at the goal line that went out of the end zone, touchback, weird rule. So then we lose to the Chargers were 0-3. The season is basically over, and it was on a last minute play that we lost, and my wife’s like, “All right, games over, let’s go.” And I was in the worst mood ever. So I drive us to apple picking, we meet-up, family is all there already, and basically the way that we reflect back on that day was that my dad and I were both in very bad moods for apple-picking ’cause my brother-in-law pulls it together like a champ and whatever. So this year, we were just having a pool day and we were picking a date for apple-picking this fall, and I don’t know if it was my mom who threw out the idea, was like, “let’s do it on a Saturday instead of a Sunday this year” and I was like, “great idea mom.” And we all had a good laugh about that.

0:41:31.6 Jordan Syatt: When you and your dad are equally mad about the Vikings and your out apple-picking, are you two talking to each pissed about it or are you both just silent and angry?

0:41:43.1 Mike Vacanti: A mix. A mix. I think it started both silent and angry, and then when we both started warming, and you know I think he was probably equally as, when I arrived there, we were both equally mad. I think my mom was like, Yeah, dad’s not happy about the game basically. But eventually you pull it together for family event, but I just remember showing up and being like this is… Like season’s over, he’s like season’s over. That’s it.

0:42:13.0 Jordan Syatt: And all your wives are like, Let’s go apple-picking this is great and your like season’s fucking over. Was this immediately after the game on a Sunday?

0:42:25.1 Mike Vacanti: Minutes. Minutes after. It was 3 o’clock Central time, out the door. There at 3:15.

0:42:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, definitely go on a Saturday. Definitely go on a Saturday.

0:42:36.8 Mike Vacanti: We are going on a Saturday this year.

0:42:42.7 Jordan Syatt: But apple-picking aside from that is great, it’s super fun.

0:42:44.2 Mike Vacanti: You know what else is fun, the NFL. I’m very excited for football this year. The idea of apple-picking is really fun, I like it for a few minutes, and then it’s.

0:42:58.1 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:43:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, man.

0:43:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude I love apple-picking. I’m like, I really enjoy climbing the trees. I like just jumping around, I enjoy being out there. I think I enjoyed even more now that I live in a place that doesn’t really have it, because a lot of people here in Texas, they don’t even know about apple-picking. And I’m sure someone’s gonna be like, I live in Texas and we have it. But all the people that I talk to have never heard of it. It’s not really a thing. At least in the people that I know. So I want to go back to the North East just to do apple picking. It was so fun. And the apple pie donuts and the apple cider it’s just fun.

0:43:36.3 Mike Vacanti: The food’s good. The food’s good. Man, I miss bulking. It was great. Apple cider donuts. I’m just kidding. The place we went did have this area where you paid a few dollars and you would get five or 10 apples and you loaded them in this machine gun type of contraption, and basically you drop the apple in aimed it. And then there’s this big open field that had like a steel barrel and things that if you hit the apple on it makes a huge noise, basically all these targets and you point this giant gun. You load the apple in and hit the button and it launches the apple.

0:44:25.6 Jordan Syatt: Are you serious?

0:44:27.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s when moods shifted.

0:44:28.3 Jordan Syatt: All right, well that’s awesome. Oh, you guys did that after the game?

0:44:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:44:32.8 Jordan Syatt: Got the aggression out. Is it easy to hit the targets?

0:44:36.9 Mike Vacanti: Not that easy. They’re pretty far away, and there’s a little curve. Depends on the size of the apple. It wasn’t that easy.

0:44:43.7 Jordan Syatt: How many yards? About are they 100 yards.

0:44:47.4 Mike Vacanti: 50?

0:44:48.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow, wow. Yeah, that’s far. That’s fun. I’ve never seen anything like that.

0:44:52.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I hadn’t either.

0:44:53.6 Jordan Syatt: “What would you say to family who are very overweight and getting bigger and kids are also affected?”

0:45:00.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s a tough conversation. Why you laughing Jordan?

0:45:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Just the way you said that. “Well, that’s a tough conversation you’ve got in front of you.”

0:45:14.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s different for us because we’re professionals, and so the conversation comes differently from us, and it depends on your relationship with the individual. I never sit down family members and give them real serious, you need to change your life talks. So if I do it once every 20 years, it might land better than if you’re trying to inflict change on someone on a regular basis. There’s also, you might already know this, but the person who asked the question, but that family member probably knows, is aware of what’s going on and wants to be doing better and wants to look and feel better, wants to lose some weight, wants to build better habits is probably trying in some way based on where they’re at right now, and so whether or not a conversation will help, a conversation won’t necessarily always help.

0:46:20.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s really tough for that reason, and so many more. It depends on, I would say from the kid’s perspective. It depends if they’re your kids or not.

0:46:29.4 Mike Vacanti: If this is a spouse and your kids type of scenario?

0:46:32.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. If this is a spouse and your kids, then I would say it’s your responsibility to do what you need to do to make sure that those kids are healthy and living healthy lifestyles and not just physically, but mentally, emotionally. All of that, I think that would be really, really important. If it’s not your kids, now you’ve got a real… It’s not your place. If it’s not your kids is not your place, type of thing, which can be really tough.

0:47:10.2 Mike Vacanti: Even let’s say it’s a sibling, and so it’s your nieces and nephews.

0:47:14.0 Jordan Syatt: Nephews and nieces. Here’s what I would say. And sort of going off what you said. My family has historically struggled with their health and fitness my entire life. So for whatever it’s worth coming from someone whose family has struggled with this my entire life, and often their whole life, I’ve never had success with family when I initiate the conversation with them, even when I’ve been a professional and I’ve done it in a way that is very intelligent and science-based. I’ve never had success when I initiated it. I’ve only had success when they initiated it, and this includes my brother who initiated with me, he lost 150 pounds. My mom, she’s lost like 50 pounds. It always had to come from them. The unfortunate part is a lot of time passed before that happened.

0:48:09.1 Mike Vacanti: How do you make yourself available for that conversation without initiating the conversation?

0:48:17.7 Jordan Syatt: There will be times where, there would have been times where they would have made comments about it, whether it was about me or about them in relation to their health. It comes up, Oh yeah, I’m trying to do this, or oh I need to do that. Well, I’ll tell you what, if you ever want help, I’m always here. I’ll tell you what, if there’s anything I can help with, whether it’s designing a workout program, a nutrition plan, giving you exercises, anything you need, if it’s referring you to a different coach, ’cause you don’t wanna work with me, I’m here. And always, always, always. Or if they had a question randomly, Hey, what do you think about this food? That’s a great question, I’ll give you my thoughts on it. And if you have any more questions, if you ever wanna, I’m always here to help. It’s always, always, always any time they ask or any time they bring it up and letting them know whenever you want, I’m always here. The difficult part of this is knowing that that’s… Number one, you don’t know when or if it’s gonna happen, and number two is a lot of time will often pass before it does happen, if it does happen. For literally over a decade for my brother and my mom before they ever came to me as a professional. And so what…

0:49:37.2 Mike Vacanti: I have an idea.

0:49:38.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, go for it.

0:49:38.7 Mike Vacanti: You do this. We can cut this out if you want to.

0:49:42.0 Jordan Syatt: No, no, we won’t cut it out. What?

0:49:43.4 Mike Vacanti: But this is like an ultimate Jordan move that works. That I’ve adopted. When you want someone to hear a message, but you are afraid that the message won’t land if it goes… If you say it directly to them when it comes up in a group setting and they’re there, but you direct it as someone else, so that they hear the conversation, but they don’t feel attacked by it or they don’t get defensive. That can be very effective.

0:50:15.2 Jordan Syatt: That is one of my ultimate moves, I do that very frequently. Like if I’m in a group setting with them there, and that topic comes up, I will give the message that they need speaking to someone else in that group. And it has worked phenomenally well in the past. So that is another, I’m glad you brought that up. Yeah, and again, it’s difficult and if it’s like one of your brothers with your nephews and nieces, again, I think one of the best things you can do for your nephews and nieces, and generally nephews and nieces love their aunts and uncles, as long as their aunts and uncles are cool. It’s always fun to be the fun uncle or the fun aunt, and oftentimes kids will want to emulate that uncle or that aunt. And so if when you go over there, all you have to do is just live your life. Live your healthy life. Yeah, I’m gonna get up early, I’m gonna go on a walk. Why don’t you come with me come on a walk. Or it’s like, yeah, I always make sure I have fruits and vegetables with my meal always, of course.

0:51:25.9 Jordan Syatt: Makes me feel great, I always do this. And then at the very least, the kids are seeing what the style of life looks like and knowing that their life isn’t the only life. I think as kids, kids… One of the most difficult parts of being a kid is you only know what you’re brought up with, and until you get out of the house and see how other people live and how other people experience life you didn’t realize there was anything else. So to sort of bring that into their home and to bring that reality to your nephews and nieces without pushing it on them, without saying like, Hey, don’t listen to your parents, just live your life. And if they don’t have the food that you want in their house bring it yourself. Yeah, I brought my own food. Of course, this is the food that I really enjoy. It makes me feel good. Whatever it is, show them that. Include them within that. Without being pushy. And that’s how I would go about it.

0:52:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Great episode, mentorship, Q&A done. Podcasts on. Highly effective Thursday.

0:52:28.4 Jordan Syatt: Gonna go get my work at it. Thank you around for listening, please leave a five-star review on iTune and Spotify, wherever you are, it means the world to us. It helps the podcast out a lot. If you… Wow, I had a big bit there, I apologize, if you want to join the mentorship, we have a link in the show notes if you wanna build your online coaching business, if you wanna be able to reach people all over the world and also improve your systems, learn how to coach people efficiently and safely and effectively to build your own business and support your own family while also providing a wonderful service to others who need it. Join the mentorship link is in the show notes. That’s all I’ve got to say. What about you, Mike?

0:53:03.2 Mike Vacanti: Couldn’t have said it any better myself. Have a great week. Weekly uploads. We’ll see you next Tuesday. Have a good one. Goodbye.