Episode 189: The Best Glute-Building Exercises, Testosterone vs Ozempic, How to Feel Your Chest, and More…

0:00:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.1 Jordan Syatt: What’s up Michael?

0:00:13.2 Mike Vacanti: How is two kids versus one kid and are you sleeping? On a scale of 1 to 10, how’s your sleep?

0:00:20.6 Jordan Syatt: Not good. Sleep, not good. We’ll put it at like a four.

0:00:27.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:00:28.0 Jordan Syatt: Which is I think probably the best it can be given the situation. I will say one of my inner circle members just told me that she had a 2-year-old and then she had twins. I was like, holy shit, that’s…

0:00:40.6 Mike Vacanti: Perspective.

0:00:41.3 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know how you do that. Like, huge respect. It’s funny, like I’ve been talking about on social media how it’s been way more difficult and I got thousands of messages from people being like, going from zero… Going from one to two is infinitely harder than going from zero to one. But going from two to three is significantly easier than going from one to two. That’s like they… And a ton of people said that like, it was actually wild how many people said that. And I think it’s probably because once they get a little bit older, they can play with each other. They can be a little bit more independent, but one to two, it’s not like double as difficult. It’s like five times as difficult. It’s way more, and it’s not because the newborn by the way, it’s because I have a literal terrorist in my house now that is just absolutely out of her mind.

0:01:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Domestic terrorist, man.

[laughter]

0:01:41.4 Jordan Syatt: She has gone nuts since, we brought Slim Jim home. Yeah.

0:01:50.4 Mike Vacanti: The sharing the spotlight wasn’t something that she planned on doing.

0:01:54.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s funny, part of me like wonders if it’s that or if it’s just the age. Like she turns two tomorrow. Like’s it’s not like she…

0:02:01.5 Mike Vacanti: Could be like that even without her sister.

0:02:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s not at a point where there are times where if I’m holding the newborn, sometimes she’ll be like, Hey, like, let’s dance, or hey, like, run with me like occasionally. But it’s also just even when the newborn is sleeping and completely out of the picture, like, I’ll be like, Hey, can I have your water bottle? And she’ll turn around and chuck the water bottle at the wall and I’ll be like, well, that was a weird thing to do. [laughter] Just like, Hey, like don’t throw the food, just put it in my hand. And then she’ll chuck the food. Like just doing everything she can. Like if you say don’t do something, she’ll do it. So to the point now where like, if she’s eating food, or if she’s not eating her food, we’ll be like, don’t eat it, don’t eat that. And then she’ll start eating the food because like we told her not to, it’s very interesting.

0:03:00.2 Mike Vacanti: I’m really encouraged by what you heard and the feedback you got about one to two being so much harder than going from two to three. I’m actually gonna send my sister this podcast and tell her to listen to the first three minutes because their second is three months old about right now. And they’re like, I don’t know if we can do another one, this is not easy. And so that data point, the mode of research.

0:03:25.5 Jordan Syatt: And they were closer than we were. They’re only like a year apart.

0:03:31.3 Mike Vacanti: Year and a half.

0:03:31.7 Jordan Syatt: They went much and faster than us.

0:03:32.2 Mike Vacanti: Year and a half. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s encouraging, that’s encouraging. There’s a light at the end of the tunnel and you’re doing great Syatt. Yeah. You’re here on the pod. You did the Inner Circle live.

0:03:44.7 Jordan Syatt: Thanks brother.

0:03:45.1 Mike Vacanti: We got real topics today. You’re just dominating.

0:03:50.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. People are like…

0:03:52.3 Mike Vacanti: You’re doing your workouts?

0:03:52.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m doing my workouts. “Why aren’t you taking paternity leave?” I’m like, what are you talking about? Like, when you own a small business…

0:03:58.2 Mike Vacanti: Who would run the business? Yeah.

0:04:00.5 Jordan Syatt: What do you mean? Why aren’t you taki… Who do you think is paying me like to take time off? What is wrong with you? It’s like, actually, and they’ll say it like judgment. You should be taking time off so you could be with your wife. It’s like, trust me we are…

0:04:14.6 Mike Vacanti: Well, then how does everyone eat?

0:04:15.8 Jordan Syatt: How does everyone eat? How do we pay rent? And like, trust me, like, we’re both working really hard right now, but don’t come at it with your horse shit. Like, I’m fucking, I’m getting my work done. All right?

0:04:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Look, when you have a massive audience, a handful of people just aren’t gonna understand like, basic components of life. Like that you own your own business and you’re not getting paid by someone who’s just gonna continue to pay you for six or 12 weeks to not work. Yeah. The pros and cons of owning your own business. Would you trade it for…

0:04:53.3 Jordan Syatt: No. Oh my gosh, no. For paternity leave? Absolutely the fuck not.

0:04:56.3 Mike Vacanti: I feel like I put too much chapstick on and I look like I…

0:04:58.3 Jordan Syatt: You look good, bro.

0:05:03.2 Mike Vacanti: I just had that like glossy, like outside of the lips going on.

0:05:04.1 Jordan Syatt: How are you doing, man?

0:05:05.7 Mike Vacanti: Good man. Good.

0:05:07.2 Jordan Syatt: You have a good weekend?

0:05:08.5 Mike Vacanti: Family weekend up north. Saw my mom’s side of the family. Got on the lake a little bit, did a little water skiing. Ate a preposterous number of calories in like a 48-hour window.

0:05:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Bro, you did a single leg water ski. You gotta tell that story. Come on. Like, that was impressive.

0:05:31.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t remember the whole extended version of it, I’ll give the cliff notes. Basically, I haven’t water skied in a long time. We were on the lake, sun was starting to set, we were done with dinner and someone there who had a boat through my godmother’s daughter was like… Yeah, you want to water ski? I was like, I don’t get this opportunity very often. And so her daughter, like 13, 14-year-old went first and she’s just dominating, like she slalom, you know, weaving in and out, like just a pro. She does it consistently. But I was like, okay, all right, so now I’m going second. We were the only two people skiing, the sun’s setting. So I get up on my first time, which I was pretty happy about two skis. And we go by, I’m like, all right, I’m gonna drop one. Like, lake is very smooth. There’s not a lot of wind. There’s no better conditions than this. I’m like, I’m dropping a ski when we go by the docks.

0:06:28.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s crazy. Your first time out in a long time, you’re dropping a ski. That’s wild.

0:06:32.7 Mike Vacanti: I just watched a 13-year-old get up on one and then like, shred gnar. I’m like, all right, I gotta do everything I got in the old bag here and I’m literally looking down at my feet because I don’t know, I’ve skied a handful of times, but I was like, what’s my dominant leg? And is your dominant leg supposed to be in the front or the back on a slalom ski? And I’m trying to… I’m not gonna ask anyone these questions and look like an idiot, but I’m trying to like, feel it out, I’m like, all right, my right leg feels stronger. I kind of want that to be the front leg because I don’t feel that confident leaning back. I’m like, I’m gonna drop my left ski. This is all I’m thinking about this while we’re coming up on the dock. So I start wiggling my foot out, drop it, and then reach my foot back to put it in the little back slidey, like top of the boot thing.

0:07:24.3 Mike Vacanti: And all I feel is plastic ski back there, like, what the heck? Where’s the slot for my foot? And I’m looking down and I can’t really see it and I can’t be looking down because I’m on one foot and I’m just in the wake, in the middle of the wake at this point and realize I dropped the wrong ski. And so I don’t have a place to put my other foot. I was like, this isn’t a big deal. I can just power through. And so I go outside and like, go as horizontal to the water as I can, like way outside the wake or turn and then come back through and slowly go through the wake, do it on the other side. I’m probably on one leg for 90 seconds and my glute starts like spasming, like these aggressive, uncontrollable contractions.

0:08:12.5 Mike Vacanti: And so I throw up the, spin finger point back at the cabin, like, get me out of here because I’m just grinding for dear life. And we’re probably seven houses away and I’m feeling like I can’t make it, like excruciating pain in my right glute. It’s just like these hard contractions and you know, I’m like, I’m not dropping, I’m not dropping seven houses away. And then the boat, it’s too far for me to swim all the way down. The boat’s gonna have to come get me. Everyone’s gonna see it, I’ll look like an idiot. So basically I made it to the dock and let go and yeah.

0:08:49.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. You grinded it out and you made it back.

0:08:52.3 Mike Vacanti: I grinded it out.

0:08:52.9 Jordan Syatt: When you did like this spinny finger thing, like, let’s go back. Were you trying to make it look like you were calm or were you looking panicked? Were like, Hey guys, let’s come back. Were you like, Hey, we gotta fucking go back.

0:09:03.3 Mike Vacanti: The second one. The second one. I was like, you gotta get me out of here. This is a problem.

[laughter]

0:09:10.9 Jordan Syatt: And how did they find the ski that you dropped?

0:09:13.8 Mike Vacanti: I dropped it. I think there’s a video of it. I wonder if we can run that. If I can get it to David. I dropped it within 10 feet of the end of the dock.

0:09:24.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, got it. Oh, so it was fast. You like very quickly dropped it. Okay.

0:09:27.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I dropped it so that I wouldn’t have to swim very far.

0:09:31.4 Jordan Syatt: That makes sense. That makes sense.

0:09:33.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But good weekend overall, ate a degenerate amount and…

0:09:37.5 Jordan Syatt: What’d you eat?

0:09:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Back dialed in here today. Everything. Just…

0:09:41.9 Jordan Syatt: What were like some of your favorites?

0:09:44.6 Mike Vacanti: There was beef brisket, there were ice cream sundaes, there was homemade ice cream. There were… My grandma made Special K bars like chocolate, peanut butter, orange rolls, which is a caramel roll except instead of caramel, it has like orange frosting, which is delicious. I was eating.

0:10:02.2 Jordan Syatt: I never had those.

0:10:02.9 Mike Vacanti: I was eating Doritos, Cowboy Caviar. I was eating candy for no reason at all. Peach rings. It was…

0:10:08.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, peach rings?

0:10:09.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I was eating peach rings. It was…

0:10:12.8 Jordan Syatt: What’s Cowboy Caviar?

0:10:15.1 Mike Vacanti: Some dip with beans and…

0:10:18.2 Jordan Syatt: Cheese?

0:10:19.6 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s like an oil-based tortilla chip dip. Beans, peppers, peppers and onions maybe. I dunno.

0:10:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Sounds like, yeah…

0:10:31.6 Mike Vacanti: Like you can taste the oil. You can taste the fat in it.

0:10:38.5 Jordan Syatt: And you were dipping chips in it?

0:10:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, a few… Jordan, a little bit of everything. There was a lot of, I was in a nice solid surplus not training, having rest day, after rest day, after rest day, of just eating. And now we’re back, hit legs and abs today. Nutrition’s dialed. It’s the year of the natty recomp aesthetics era. Not recomp, actually. Just the natty fat loss, lose a little bit of muscle, aesthetics, don’t take it too seriously era. Week two is underway.

0:11:11.0 Jordan Syatt: Let’s go.

0:11:11.6 Mike Vacanti: Should we talk about that quote? There was a quote on South Park.

0:11:16.5 Jordan Syatt: I thought it was an incredible quote. Yeah. So I saw this on @drmikethe2nd page, and Dr. Mike and I are very good friends. He’s wonderful. He’s in the UK. I met him at an event that I was speaking at two years in a row in the UK. Just a really, really good guy, smart doctor. And I’m trying to find this. Oh, here we go. Here’s his quote.

0:11:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Not his.

0:11:42.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s not his quote. He shared this quote that was from a recent South Park episode. Now I’m not a big South Park guy. When I was in high school, I would watch it occasionally, usually when one of my friends were watching it when I would go to their house and they happened to be watching it. But one thing that I’ve noticed about South Park and Simpsons are they’re notorious for predicting things. And they’re very aware of culture and like where culture is at. They have, especially The Simpsons has been notorious for predicting things long, long, long in advance. And where culture will go. But they’re also incredibly politically incorrect. And what I like about them is they go after everybody. Like no one is safe. It’s not like they’re just picking on one group, one race, one religion. Like they go after everybody. Which as a fan of student comedy, I love that. Like, I think it’s awesome. Some people hate it and that’s fine. Anyway, Dr. Mike shared a quote from a recent episode of South Park that is making waves within the fitness industry for a good reason. And I’m gonna read the quote right now. Dr. Mike…

0:12:54.7 Mike Vacanti: And other people were sharing it as well?

0:12:57.1 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Other people were sharing it as well. It’s making a wave just yeah.

0:13:02.7 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:13:03.5 Jordan Syatt: I haven’t made a post on it yet. I’ve been thinking about it, but basically… There’s a screenshot I’ll… If people watching YouTube, will see the screenshot. This is from @drmikethe2nd Instagram. But you’ve got Cartman, and I think that’s Eric with the green hat. And one of them is saying, “rich people get Ozempic, poor people get body positivity.” And when I saw that quote, like my jaw dropped because, and you and I have spoken about this a little bit before and that we could dive into it more now, when I saw that, I didn’t take it at face value of just purely like, rich with money or poor without money. And like, I think this is like a very deeply philosophical discussion that we could have around weight loss injections. We could have around body positivity. We could have around why people are making the decisions they’re making, what options they have available to them. Like I actually think this quote is incredibly powerful for deeper reasons. And then I sent it to you, I was like, bro, we’ve gotta talk about this. So that’s how we arrived at rich people get Ozempic, poor people get body positivity. What do you think?

0:14:22.3 Mike Vacanti: There’s probably part of you too that’s like, it’s funny and surprising and kind of cool because it’s South Park commenting on something so like just right in front of our face and something that has to do with what we deal with every single day in the fitness industry.

0:14:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:14:45.3 Mike Vacanti: So it could have been this quote, it could have been another quote, but like a quote specifically about topics and issues that come across our feed every single day is almost like worth highlighting regardless of what the quote is.

0:15:00.8 Jordan Syatt: A 100%.

0:15:00.8 Mike Vacanti: What I think… I told you what I think when you told me on the phone, but I might be interpreting the quote too literally, because I think my first…

0:15:10.8 Jordan Syatt: You’re an ISTJ, like the, literally, yeah. What did you say?

0:15:14.3 Mike Vacanti: My first response was like, “well, that’s not true. Like, people…”

[laughter]

0:15:18.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s exactly what you said. You said LOL, like, which was like a fake LOL. Like, you’re like, “but can’t most people get a GLP-1 covered by their insurance?”

[laughter]

0:15:26.8 Mike Vacanti: Literally, I was like, literally Medicaid has to cover GLP-1s by this point. I was like, and they can for sure get it for diabetes, and I’m pretty sure that with certain doctors, certain states, because Medicaid is the government sponsored insurance that people who make under a certain amount of money get health insurance. And yeah, my mind went to, well, can’t they still get Ozempic if they want Ozempic. Was…

0:16:05.6 Jordan Syatt: And then I said…

0:16:06.8 Mike Vacanti: And then you’re like, “that’s not the point!” I don’t…

0:16:09.4 Jordan Syatt: I said, “you’re thinking about it too much like an ISTJ. Think about it from a philosophical and social perspective, less about blood being in your veins.”

[laughter]

0:16:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And we can go down the road of… We can be abstract. We can take it to like, hey, I’ll never forget when JP said that meek doesn’t mean what we think meek means. Meek means… there’s a Greek interpretation from the third century where meek actually means to have a sword, but to keep it sheathed, meaning that you are very strong, but you don’t use that strength unless you’re using it for good. We can go philosophical, but it’s funny, it’s funny on the surface.

0:16:52.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s funny. Yeah, it is.

0:16:53.3 Jordan Syatt: There’s something too where I think the people who may be some of the people who really are like, “Yeah, that’s right,” might be coming from the perspective of rich people have every advantage and poor people are like disadvantaged, which is obviously true in some ways and is untrue in other ways. My initial instinct was funny, but I don’t think it’s true. There’s definitely something cultural to this, and you know this better than I do because you know, the body positivity movement better than I do. Does the body positivity movement feel like a lower means, whether literally or in mindset type of movement?

0:17:46.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s a really good question. I think that many in the body positivity movement tend to be more progressive, and they do tend to look at things more from a… I don’t even know the right verbiage, but they look at things from like a, hey… Like from a privileged perspective, I would say like, this person has like lack of privilege. This person has more privilege. Yes. I would say… Here’s what I’ll say. I’ve never seen someone who’s big into body positivity, who is like conservative, which is really interesting.

0:18:28.2 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:18:28.3 Jordan Syatt: We can see political perspectives based on their nutritional choices and what they discuss in terms of fitness. For example, I’ve never seen a conservative vegan and I’ve never seen a liberal carnivore ever.

0:18:48.0 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:18:51.0 Jordan Syatt: We can see these choices based on the whatever they subscribe to fitness wise nutritionally.

0:18:57.0 Mike Vacanti: And then I don’t know the data, but you’re then inferring that progressives have a lower income on average than conservatives?

0:19:04.8 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, no. I’m not inferring that. I’m saying that…

0:19:06.9 Mike Vacanti: But…

0:19:09.3 Jordan Syatt: I’m saying that the people speaking about it, like the people promoting it have that not necessarily the people who are that, if that makes sense.

0:19:18.5 Mike Vacanti: Got it, got it, got it. So you don’t know if people who follow a body positivity movement are actually less wealthy people, but what you do notice is that the people leading the movement tend to be more progressive.

0:19:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And for me, what’s interesting is I think the body positivity movement was born out of people feeling marginalized because of their size. And then they wanted to be seen as like, Hey, like we’re humans too. I think that’s how it was born.

0:19:52.8 Mike Vacanti: Which is good.

0:19:54.0 Jordan Syatt: Totally fair and valid.

0:19:55.2 Mike Vacanti: And coming out of…

0:19:55.8 Jordan Syatt: I think what…

0:19:57.2 Mike Vacanti: Go ahead.

0:19:57.7 Jordan Syatt: I think what extreme ends of it became is a justification to be unhealthy and lies that you can still be very healthy even when you are significantly overweight. It just like became this fringe movement within the body positivity movement, basically saying like, the health at every size movement.

0:20:22.2 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

0:20:22.3 Jordan Syatt: Like you can be healthy and really big, which was born out of body positivity, which then transitioned into, well, it doesn’t matter how big you are because you can still be healthy no matter your size. And that’s where it became a major issue. And that’s where then this quote from South Park really, it was like, just hit me in the gut. Like, oh my gosh. Like, there’s so much to unpack here being like, okay, so people who can’t, maybe they can’t afford or don’t get access to a GLP-1, well, they’re just like, well, I’m just gonna go down the body positivity movement now. Like, I’m just gonna like say it doesn’t matter what size I am because, I can’t get access to that. But as soon as they get access to that, if they have the ability, all of a sudden they’re like, oh no, nevermind. I was wrong about that actually. I’m much healthier now. Their tune would switch immediately if they had access to that. So it’s like whatever you have access to is then that determines what you believe, not the beliefs coming first, regardless of what you have access to.

0:21:20.2 Mike Vacanti: Probably access and probably social circle, right?

0:21:23.5 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:21:24.4 Mike Vacanti: If their five best friends are all of one ideology, they’re more likely to subscribe to that. Something, there’s a quote from like 20 years ago that’s big in the tech scene, I forget who said it, but something to the effect of the future is already here. It’s just unevenly distributed. Which is kind of Ozempic, call it three years ago. Maybe four years ago, right?

0:21:55.0 Jordan Syatt: Yep.

0:21:55.0 Mike Vacanti: Where it was like a Kardashian type, very wealthy individual, insurance wasn’t paying for it at all. They were out of pocket and they were primarily using it not to treat diabetes or to lose a significant amount of body fat for somebody who needed that for their health. But just to lose seven pounds of body fat to go from 115 to 108 because they want to, for the aesthetics. That part of the quote rings true and is like, definitely was true a few years ago in terms of only very “privileged” people having access to these GLP-1s.

0:22:32.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It is very interesting to see how quickly they’ve become mainstream, especially because they’ve been around for a long time. Obviously their science is making waves in them and developing more and better ones, but they’ve been around for many years. It’s only recently that they’ve become more mainstream, which listen, I’m all for them. I have, I like, I’m all for them, for those who need them. Not for those who don’t, my mind now. And I don’t know, I hear people say like, big pharma, big pharma, bro, I know nothing about big pharma. I know nothing like, I know nothing. But it does make me think it’s like, oh wow. Maybe they just realized like, this could be a huge money maker. Like to see the explosion over the last few years, I’m like, they must be making so much money. Like this just must be the biggest thing. This must be generating the most amount of money for them right now.

0:23:29.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I would imagine. I don’t know anything either about big pharma, but you would think, and it’s interesting because I’ve heard Spencer talk about studies from the ’50s.

0:23:42.6 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:23:42.9 Mike Vacanti: Or ’50s or ’60s.

0:23:43.5 Jordan Syatt: ’70s and stuff. Yeah.

0:23:45.5 Mike Vacanti: ’70s. And so yes, clearly they’ve been around. I don’t know what caused the recent explosion, but they’re here and they’re actually, this is a nice transition if we wanna, unless we wanna talk more on this.

0:24:01.8 Jordan Syatt: No. Whatever you want.

0:24:02.8 Mike Vacanti: I have a, let’s… We’ll call this a case study. I think this will be an interesting case study of an overweight male who has… I’m gonna try and make this as general and applicable to as many people as possible. So it’s not about anyone in particular, but struggled to lose, to maintain a healthy body weight and has tried many different things. And I think a lot of guys can relate to this and women can too, but because we’re gonna be talking about testosterone supplementation, it’s not as applicable.

0:24:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Who has tried a bunch of different things and has never been able to successfully lose weight and keep that weight off. And let’s assume that he tried a bunch of good and science-based, evidence-based, like effective strategies, physiologically, psychologically that we would subscribe to. We’ll even say he bought Eat It! and like tried to put our book into practice many times and was unable to. So like, it’s not, he’s tried good strategies, hasn’t been able to make the kind of progress, hasn’t been able to get to a healthy body weight. What makes more sense for this person? We can get into more details as well, starting a GLP-1 or starting testosterone replacement therapy?

0:25:33.9 Jordan Syatt: Did you bring this up to me the other day? I was like, oh, that’s a really good question.

0:25:36.7 Mike Vacanti: I was unsure if you knew where I was going with that or not, because…

0:25:40.1 Jordan Syatt: I had no clue where you’re going with that.

0:25:40.6 Mike Vacanti: Because of the look on your face, you’re like, “where is he going with this?” But I was like, I literally told him we were gonna pod about this.

0:25:45.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s so funny. I completely forgot.

0:25:47.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And then there are other factors as well, right? Like if, because weight management is not the primary reason. The guy would get on testosterone replacement therapy. We’ll assume in this case that his testosterone levels are low. But there are many other reasons, psychological reasons, sex drive, libido, et cetera, reasons, why men should and do start testosterone replacement. But for this fictitious case study to start, at least we can talk about someone whose primary goal is fat loss.

0:26:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I think it’s a really good question because we have to assume, we have to assume that his testosterone is low. And I’m gonna say…

0:26:38.9 Mike Vacanti: We’ll call it 300.

0:26:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh man, that’s really on the line. Like that’s low, but it’s also not so low where I’m like super concerned about it. Like if you said under 200 it’d be a no-brainer, but 300, I’m like, ah, fuck, that’s really not that low.

0:26:57.3 Mike Vacanti: Low end of normal.

0:26:58.9 Jordan Syatt: Here’s what I would say. If it’s 300, I’m saying… Alright, so here’s, I’m gonna go through so many different things. If it’s 300, is their blood pressure okay?

0:27:09.2 Mike Vacanti: Let’s assume yes.

0:27:10.3 Jordan Syatt: If his blood pressure is okay, then I’ll probably say, let’s try some testosterone. If his blood pressure is not okay, then I’m saying we’re gonna go… We’re going weight loss injection.

0:27:20.9 Mike Vacanti: You know what, I actually don’t know the answer to this. I know that based on some research, many argue that going from the low end of normal to like middle upper is actually good for heart health. Obviously going above, if you’re talking 1200 or 1500 total test, you have some risk in terms of cardiovascular stuff. But do you know if going from the low end to like mid upper actually helps with heart health?

0:27:53.9 Jordan Syatt: Here’s what I’ll say. I’ve never seen, and I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but I’ve never seen someone start supplementing with testosterone either under the supervision of a doctor or not, and have their blood pressure improve. I’ve never seen it. Ever. And that’s why like, it’s just… Dude’s gotta be really careful with it. So what I would say is if he’s 300 and healthy blood pressure could definitely try like a very low dose TRT, get him up to like five to 600 or so, testosterone levels. Because here’s what I think would happen. Not only do I think his confidence would go up, I think his energy would improve. I think his desire to go to the gym and to work out and to be better would improve.

0:28:54.4 Jordan Syatt: I think that would lead to significantly better behavior that is very easy or easier to sustain for the rest of his life. And supplementing with testosterone and just to be at a healthy point, a healthy testosterone level is number one, it’s not difficult to do and it doesn’t come with negative side effects assuming that he’s healthy and his blood pressure isn’t getting out of control, like, it’s fine. With that being said, the GLP-1s, which have so many wonderful effects is I don’t think anyone really wants to stay on them long term, especially because of the potential for negative side effects. Again, many people don’t have negative side effects, but some do. And often they impact your hunger so much that it can make living be very uncomfortable in many situations. It’s just like, it’s so, so, so, so not hungry that it can make social situations difficult.

0:29:56.7 Jordan Syatt: It can overall make your life not as simple or as easy, as enjoyable. And when you end up coming off them off and your hunger will come right back, which it’s a, I think it’s a more difficult thing to be on, whereas…

0:30:09.7 Mike Vacanti: I agree.

0:30:09.7 Jordan Syatt: If you could change your behaviors with testosterone and not have it negatively affect your health in any way, I think it would be the better choice overall. As opposed to the quick fix of the GLP-1s. Which by the way, it’s not a quick fix and they are great for a lot of people, but in this specific situation, I would probably rather go for the testosterone. But if you had said his blood pressure was high, I would’ve went GLP-1.

0:30:34.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, and we need to take into consideration the fact that with the GLP-1, getting from an unhealthy body weight to a healthy body weight is probably going to increase his total test.

0:30:47.4 Jordan Syatt: Yes, exactly. Yes. The difference is it will increase his test almost definitively, but he will likely have to come off of it. And that’s the major issue, right? Is what happens when you come off. Whereas the test, he wouldn’t necessarily have to come off of it. And the behaviors that you gain, the habits you gain from going on tests or the potential of gaining those habits is just so much better long term.

0:31:14.1 Mike Vacanti: Are you seeing new stuff that I don’t know about in the last couple of months with needing to come off of GLP-1s? Because I was under the impression that the majority of doctors that put their fat loss clients on GLP-1s are putting them on for life. Like, come off if you can and maintain progress. But if you can’t maintain progress after coming off, this is just like a statin or this is just like any other medication that you would take for the rest of your life. You’re 40 years old and you’re starting a GLP-1. Cool. Like the plan is to get to a healthy body weight and if you need the GLP-1 to maintain the healthy body weight, this is a lifetime.

0:31:51.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. From what I’ve seen, it depends on the individual’s response in terms of how bad the side effects are. If the side effects aren’t that bad, then they can stay on it for life, no problem. Oftentimes, and I’ve heard Spencer talk about this, where he’ll just reduce the dose or the frequency of injections. So like, because oftentimes it’s the first couple of days after an injection that are like the worst in terms of side effects, then they’ll dissipate. So maybe instead of injecting however often they’ll reduce that. They’ll reduce the dose and maybe a little bit of weight will come back on, but it will be nowhere near as where they started. So you can absolutely stay on for longer, but I think many people would like to get off. And what I know when dudes get on testosterone, most of them don’t wanna come off.

0:32:40.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s like they’re more than happy to do this for their rest of their life. It’s a very different mindset. It’s like, it only from a behavioral perspective, it only enhances your life. With GLP-1s, behaviorally, it can actually be a real hindrance for people and it can change their life. And I’ve seen so many people, I couldn’t be more pro GLP-1 for so many different people. I’m just factually and objectively, and having spoken to many people on them, behaviorally can be a real issue for people from the side effects and and how uncomfortable they can make you. So I’ve never met anyone who’s had a negative behavioral experience with testosterone.

0:33:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Too much confidence. Too much swag.

0:33:21.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:33:23.1 Mike Vacanti: Too much lean tissue. Just too… Just a stallion. Just too much of everything.

0:33:28.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:33:28.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s a great point.

0:33:31.1 Jordan Syatt: Like Louie Simmons said, he was like, “once you go on, you’re not coming off,” you know?

0:33:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And there’s that maybe that was last week or two weeks ago, we were talking about that Hedonic adaptation of… Yeah. Cool. Interesting. What I have seen, and I hope my sample size isn’t too small on this because I’m generalizing big time with what I’m about to say now, and kind of just saying thoughts out loud and bouncing them off of Jordan here. But what I’ve seen with high achiever dudes, and I’m thinking of 10, at least right now, 10 to be in the 35 to 50/55 age range, 35 to 50 high achiever type family guys work really hard. Many of them pretty solid with their training and their consistency, but can’t get their food dialed in. After starting testosterone they recomp a little bit. Visually, there’s improvements and enhancements, but over a three to five-year window, they’re not, they’re still having the same struggles with nutrition that they had before they started.

0:35:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Which doesn’t mean, especially if you have other symptoms that would cause you to want to start TRT doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it, but is something to consider just the fact that it’s not a panacea, right? Like starting these aren’t going to cure, starting TRT isn’t gonna help you with every issue that you’ve ever had.

0:35:23.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct. Now I really wanna get on TRT. I’m not going to, but like…

[laughter]

0:35:31.6 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I don’t, I don’t.

0:35:32.9 Jordan Syatt: I’ll tell you what, if I didn’t still wanna have more kids and I wasn’t concerned about my blood pressure…

0:35:40.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Your fear, your like fear of a cardiovascular, stroke, heart attack, etcetera, really…

0:35:47.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, dude.

0:35:49.1 Mike Vacanti: Is keeping you in it.

0:35:49.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it helps me so much.

0:35:49.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [chuckle] “Helps me so much.”

0:35:51.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That fear, oh my God, it makes me, it puts me in a lot, a much safer position.

0:35:56.3 Mike Vacanti: I mean, my… I guess it’s not fear, but my understanding of that would just be, that’s the slippery slope. That’s the like, “oh yeah, I’ll go do cocaine once like who knows? Like, just one time.” It’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. “Oh, heroin? Heard it’s great. Let me try it once.” No, no, no, no, no. Like, that’s… “Oh, having improved physique in a very short amount of time. Yeah. I’ll just do that and I’ll stay on that dosage. I’ll never increase it.”

0:36:24.1 Jordan Syatt: “I’ll never go up.”

0:36:25.0 Mike Vacanti: No.

0:36:25.3 Jordan Syatt: “I’ll stay right there the whole time”. Then you see one person who’s like more jacked and lean and you’re like I’m increasing the dose.

0:36:31.3 Mike Vacanti: Bigger than the… Yeah. “I’m gonna kill that guy. Watch this.”

[laughter]

0:36:34.1 Jordan Syatt: And that guy’s like, “yeah, I’m natural.” And you’re like, “fuck that.”

[laughter]

0:36:39.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, liar. Liar. But yes. Yeah, it is it’s an interesting conversation. And there are many, we’re generalizing big time, right? Because there’s many factors that influence, I mean, option A, if you can pull it off, is not to do either, and to make the behavioral changes and hope that they can stick. But it’s incredibly difficult and people are in positions and have taken on levels of responsibility and have lifestyles that make it very, very hard to do that.

0:37:20.0 Jordan Syatt: I sort of think about it like, and it’s not the best analogy, but I sort of think about it like weightlifting accessories, whether it’s like an Olympic lifting shoe or a belt or wrist wraps, all these things where it’s like, listen, when I go to, when I go on vacation, or if I’m out at a regular gym, like if I could just go in off the street not needing a bag, no extra… I could just go in and have an amazing workout, I would prefer that. But once you start, “Okay, well I’ve gotta have my belt with me. I’ve gotta have my Olympic lifting shoes with me. I gotta have this with me. I gotta have my wrist straps with me. I’ve gotta have this.” All of a sudden, like you’re traveling across the country and world with like an extra piece of luggage just to give all of your workout equipment. It’s like, that’s fucking annoying. It’s like, I’d rather just go in with my T-shirt and shorts and have an amazing workout. But once you start relying on all these extra tools, it becomes much more difficult for you to go in and have a really amazing workout, because if you are without those things, now all of a sudden you feel disadvantaged and now all of a sudden you feel like you’re not getting the best workout in.

0:38:26.8 Mike Vacanti: So you…

0:38:26.9 Jordan Syatt: I think I…

0:38:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Once you start, then you feel like you need it.

0:38:31.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Yes, exactly. It’s like if you can deadlift 20 more pounds when you’ve got a belt on you don’t wanna go to a gym and not be able to deadlift as much as you know you could with the belt, because, and it’s mainly ego based. It’s like, well, these people don’t know how much I could lift with the belt. They’re only seeing me deadlift this much. It’s like, it doesn’t fucking matter. So that’s where it’s the best thing to do is focus on everything you have control over that you can control, that you like, just do it “naturally” is the best way to start. If you need extra help, like if you can’t deadlift without a belt because you’ve got back pain and you just still really wanna deadlift, then like, great, get your belt on, because it’s gonna keep you safe.

0:39:11.6 Jordan Syatt: And maybe skip deadlifts that week if you’re going and you don’t have access to your belt or just pack your belt and that’s fine. Same thing with whether it’s testosterone, GLP-1s, whatever it is, like the best thing to do everything you can, that you have within your own control to improve your habits and your behavior is for sure. If you’re at a point where like, you need excess help or extra help, great, go for it. But do everything within your power to do it naturally first and foremost. And then from there, if you need extra help, that’s something to talk to between you and your doctor.

0:39:41.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And to remember, like I would really emphasize the do everything in your power natural, which many have for decades, but…

0:39:50.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:39:51.6 Mike Vacanti: Have an honest conversation with yourself about that piece of it, because many don’t, and there’s a biological cost to everything we put in our body. And there are, I’m not trying to fear monger, obviously, but there are unknown risks to both.

0:40:10.1 Jordan Syatt: Of course.

0:40:10.7 Mike Vacanti: To everything, but to both. And so if you can pull it off without these things do it.

0:40:18.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s something that I’ve been a little bit surprised about with the, and again, I’m super pro GLP-1, I’m so glad. I think they’re a net positive and so many people have had wonderful success with them, but I have noticed many people being like, “There’s nothing wrong with them.” It’s like, nothing wrong that we found yet. It’s still very early in the research and new ones that are coming out all the time and people are taking them at doses they’ve never taken them before. We’re having a much larger sample size now. And I pray that there’s no negative side effects in them long term.

0:40:47.6 Mike Vacanti: Of course.

0:40:48.3 Jordan Syatt: We already know there are potential many short-term side effects. We know that. I hope that there’s no long term side effects. I don’t want anyone to get sick from them or have any issues. We’ll find out in the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years.

0:41:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. And that’s why you need to analyze the benefit you’re getting from them. And if that benefit is, I’m gonna lose 75 pounds of body fat and keep it off and it’s gonna improve my blood markers and improve my overall health and improve my mortality rate and longevity, amazing. If the benefit you get is, I wanna lose this extra little bit of something so that I feel slightly better in a swimsuit this summer, even though when summer comes and you lose that extra 10 pounds, you’re still gonna be insecure about something else. It’s gonna be your butt or it’s gonna be whatever. The insecurity will still be there. That is not a benefit that justifies the potential cost.

0:41:34.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct, correct. That’s exactly right.

0:41:36.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I wanna give a shout out to Sadie. Sadie is a listener of the pod. She knows who she is. We got a question here. Basically, Sadie’s a fitness instructor limited to body weight only, her question’s limited to body weight only. Alright? So do we have any books we recommend for strengthening without weights to get the best possible results?

0:42:10.1 Jordan Syatt: So I have one, it’s actually, it’s right next to me. It’s a very sciencey book. It’s a great book. And I don’t say that lightly. This is a great, great book.

0:42:20.8 Mike Vacanti: You have a body weight strength training book right next, within arm’s reach?

0:42:23.2 Jordan Syatt: Literally within arm’s reach. Yeah.

0:42:24.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s… We didn’t even plan this. Let’s go.

0:42:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s an amazing book. It’s very science heavy but also with really wonderful examples. It is called Overcoming Gravity. It’s a really great book. I would treat this almost as like an encyclopedia of body weight strength training. The subtitle’s, A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength. It’s awesome. I think that this would be, if there was only one book I would recommend, it would be this. But also this is I think really good for coaches. It’s a really great book for coaches who want to understand the science of it better, understand the programming of it better understanding the progressions of it better. This is not a light read at all. Off the top of my head I can’t think of one that would be great for just like, “Hey, here’s a program.”

0:43:26.1 Mike Vacanti: Sadie teaches classes. Sadie, this… That couldn’t have been more perfect. The fact that I asked that question. You had no idea it was coming. You had that book sitting right there because I am not well versed in body weight training. It’s not an interest of mine, it’s not a passion of mine. I don’t have any book recommendations for body weight strength training. Jordan did right there, three feet away from him.

0:43:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Really, really good. Yeah. And since you’re a coach and I would definitely recommend it. It’s awesome. I learn something from this book every time I open it. So highly recommend.

0:43:57.8 Mike Vacanti: Awesome. Let’s go baby.

0:44:00.5 Jordan Syatt: Good glute-building exercises, if I can’t do squats or deadlifts.

0:44:03.8 Mike Vacanti: Hip thrust.

0:44:04.7 Jordan Syatt: Bro, I hate hip thrusts.

0:44:06.1 Mike Vacanti: I know you don’t like the setup, but they’re…

0:44:08.2 Jordan Syatt: I hate them more than ever. My hate for them is growing.

0:44:12.1 Mike Vacanti: All right. It’s growing probably because you’re seeing a lot of them and you’re a contrarian.

0:44:15.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:44:16.0 Mike Vacanti: All right. I’ll give you, I’ll give you some more. I like…

0:44:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Give me more.

0:44:20.0 Mike Vacanti: I love, oh, here’s one to go against the whole line of pull, like optimal setup stability crowd, a nice little cable pull through late in the workout when you’re already fatigued.

0:44:27.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, love that.

0:44:28.4 Mike Vacanti: So like the program in like the 12-20 rep range.

0:44:31.4 Jordan Syatt: Love that.

0:44:31.9 Mike Vacanti: Get those toes pointed out. Nice wide stance. I like a glute extension on the back extension machine.

0:44:40.2 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Yep, yep. Love that.

0:44:41.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s rounded, round that upper back. Even a little tiny bit of rounded lumbar and you’re just driving those hips into the pad. Same toes pointed out…

0:44:50.7 Jordan Syatt: Love that.

0:44:51.3 Mike Vacanti: Setup there. I mean RDL, single leg RDL.

0:44:55.2 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Love that. RDLs.

0:44:57.4 Mike Vacanti: Bad Girl. Dude, I did some Bad Girls today. Felt great. Hip abduction. AB-duction.

0:45:05.8 Jordan Syatt: AB-duction. Yep.

0:45:06.7 Mike Vacanti: For those who prefer that terminology.

0:45:09.7 Jordan Syatt: Yep.

0:45:11.4 Mike Vacanti: There’s a few.

0:45:12.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I love that.

0:45:12.6 Mike Vacanti: What do you like for glutes? Anything else?

0:45:14.2 Jordan Syatt: I mean, RDLs, single leg RDLs, back extensions, single leg back extensions. Single leg will light you up. Love that. I love that you brought the cable pull throughs in there. Fucking Bulgarians.

0:45:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.

0:45:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Come on, Bulgarians.

0:45:30.5 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely.

0:45:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Lunges. It’s funny.

0:45:32.9 Mike Vacanti: Do you modify a Bulgarian setup to hit more glute if someone…

0:45:37.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah.

0:45:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Were so inclined?

0:45:39.1 Jordan Syatt: More forward leaned. You have a more forward lean in there that’s gonna get more glute. I think that’s a better approach. If you wanna get more quad closer stance, more upright, you’re gonna get more quad. The, a little bit wider stance, more forward lean and you’re gonna get more glute. But just do them, those are my tops. I’m really, and people listening are gonna be like, “Wait, but I thought that you recommend hip thrusts.” Listen, do what you like and hip thrust are clearly, they’re a great exercise. I fucking hate them. Dude, I…

0:46:11.5 Mike Vacanti: You don’t like the setup and the…

0:46:14.1 Jordan Syatt: The setup and the breakdown is so annoying to me. It’s just like when everyone’s like, “How can I be more efficient in the gym? I wanna get a good workout in 45-60 minutes.” And they’re like, “We’ll also do hip thrusts.” I’m like, “That’s gonna take up 20 minutes of your fucking workout.” And assuming that you’re working out in a public gym and you’re taking all the plates and you’re gonna wait for someone else because, dude, I know people who aren’t really strong, who can easily hip thrust 315. And I’m like, I’d way rather you just do RDLs. Just way rather. It’s gonna be better for you, better for everyone else in the gym. Better, more time efficient. And they’re fucking uncomfortable. And it’s just, I’ve never been more anti hip thrust than I am now. And again, I’ll still program them for someone who wants them. And they’re still a great exercise, but I’m really, really, my blood pressure’s going up. I hate that hip thrust.

0:47:06.2 Mike Vacanti: I love that you hate that hip thrust. I just got a quick, give a little counter argument because I find them to be one of the best and safest ways to really load the glute.

0:47:17.6 Jordan Syatt: 100%. 100%

0:47:18.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s, if you’re comparing…

0:47:20.5 Jordan Syatt: There’s no arguing that.

0:47:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Like a heavy RDL to a heavy hip thrust, RDL’s, great because you can just pick up the weight. You can just pick the dumbbells up off the rack. There’s no setup involved. There’s no breakdown involved. But you’re holding a 100 pound… I mean, grip can be a limiting factor too. Women, little bit less upper body strength to men.

0:47:36.5 Jordan Syatt: Straps. Versa Grips.

0:47:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Yes, but just the lumbar exposure in an RDL relative to a hip thrust.

0:47:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Listen there’s no question. It’s an amazing exercise for your glutes. There’s no question. No one in their right mind can argue against it. But then I’m thinking, okay, like the RDL, you also get your erectors, you get more back in there. You if you wanna get your grip work in there, you get that. I think it’s an overall better exercise for athletic performance, for health, for strength, all of that. If we’re just targeting the, targeting the glutes, very safe, very effective. Takes an unbelievable amount of time. And it’s very inconvenient. You gotta find the right fucking bench. You gotta get the right height. You’ve gotta make sure you’re not gonna push the bench over. You’ve got… It’s just got… Just do something. Come on.

0:48:26.4 Mike Vacanti: What if, can… We’re gonna find some common ground here. You and I are about to find a nice common ground.

0:48:31.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, we’ve already found it. We’ve found that common ground.

0:48:33.3 Mike Vacanti: What do you. No, no, no. But even more common, the most common ground. This ground is the most common ground. What about…

0:48:39.1 Jordan Syatt: The most common. Everyone knows it’s common ground.

0:48:43.3 Mike Vacanti: What about a single leg hip thrust?

0:48:45.0 Jordan Syatt: Frankly, it’s pretty common.

0:48:48.1 Mike Vacanti: Jordan, Jordan. What about a single leg hip thrust?

0:48:51.4 Jordan Syatt: I love those.

0:48:52.7 Mike Vacanti: Doesn’t require the barbell doesn’t require the setup. If you can tempo it, you can 1.5 it, you can slowly centric and if you get too good with body weight, you can load the dumbbell pretty effectively over like the top of one leg.

0:49:06.2 Jordan Syatt: Way better. I would, I would, I program single leg hip thrust all the time. In at least, probably like six out of 12 programs every year, if not more. I program them all the time. Way better. And I would… Yeah. I would way rather do that.

0:49:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Same. Yep.

0:49:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:49:21.5 Mike Vacanti: I program way more single leg hip thrust than I do barbell hip thrust for the reason that you described. A barbell hip thrust is like a replacement for like a deadlift or some, like a more…

0:49:33.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:49:34.3 Mike Vacanti: Complex compound movement that you’re going to load heavier. Whereas a single leg hip thrust is yeah, an easy nice, like in the eight to 15, 10-15 rep range.

0:49:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:49:49.5 Mike Vacanti: Money in the bank.

0:49:50.4 Jordan Syatt: That was super common ground.

0:49:51.9 Mike Vacanti: So common. So common.

0:49:53.6 Jordan Syatt: Best exercises to build your quads.

0:49:56.4 Mike Vacanti: You saw how excited I got about the glutes one and you were like, “This is very similar.”

0:50:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Another one, this is great.

0:50:02.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. We can do this one. I feel like there’s less, you know what’s funny? I feel such a low level of interest about this because I saw a picture of myself from this weekend and I was like, “My legs are getting too big. And my upper, like, what happened here? I need to stop training legs at the ratio that I am because I’ve put on so much quad mass.”

0:50:21.5 Jordan Syatt: Bro, I always feel like anytime I ask what you’re training, it’s like eight out of 10 times its legs.

0:50:25.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. What am I doing?

0:50:26.9 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know.

0:50:27.0 Mike Vacanti: What am I doing? My quad to bicep ratio has really fallen in the last, let’s call it seven years or risen, quad to bicep ratio has risen too much. I need to restore the glory of 2003 where legs barely got trained.

0:50:42.0 Jordan Syatt: You need to stop doing so much biceps femoris and start doing more of like the biceps on your arms.

0:50:48.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s true. That’s true. I do. But I like training the biceps femoris.

0:50:50.9 Jordan Syatt: Best quad exercises.

0:50:52.3 Mike Vacanti: My hammies are not that impressive.

0:50:55.4 Jordan Syatt: You’ve got impressive hammies, bro.

0:50:57.1 Mike Vacanti: Thanks. Thanks, Jordan. Any…

0:51:00.2 Jordan Syatt: Very impressive. Very good.

0:51:05.3 Mike Vacanti: I mean, look, all kinds of knee dominant squatting patterns, like, what do we… I feel like there’s almost too many to name. You got the classics, right? You got a barbell back squat. What is so funny? I’m naming the quad exercises. And I asked the question.

0:51:28.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Okay. Now we’re getting to the naming. All kinds, all kinds of knee dominant. You got the classics, you got. So you got barbell back squat.

[laughter]

0:51:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Are you ready?

0:51:40.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m ready.

0:51:40.5 Mike Vacanti: You know what I was visualizing for about four minutes back there. Was you at like 87 years old ranting about hip thrust because you know how old people rant about stuff.

0:51:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:51:50.2 Mike Vacanti: And you don’t, you barely rant. Like there are very few subjects that really like get you ranting. But barbell hip thrust is one of them. So I’m just wondering in 50 years or 54 years to be exact. No, I know what, I’m just… The ferocity of the rant about the barbell hip thrust. I’m excited for.

0:52:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Well, hopefully by then I’ll be on tests and it’ll just be like really, just like very…

0:52:13.9 Mike Vacanti: That’s gonna…

0:52:14.4 Jordan Syatt: Angrily ranting.

0:52:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You’re gonna be ranting even harder. That’s exactly right. Alright. You got the classics, you got the high bar back squat, you got the barbell front squat. You have all kinds of lunge variations. You have a hat like machine. We can go to machines. I like a leg press. I like a hack squat. You can do all kinds of heel elevated cool stuff and get even more quad in there. I personally…

0:52:48.4 Jordan Syatt: Would you do like a leg press?

0:52:51.7 Mike Vacanti: Yes. Based on the bro in me, although I feel like there was a real movement for foot placement on the leg press doesn’t impact…

0:53:01.7 Jordan Syatt: I’m against that movement.

0:53:02.7 Mike Vacanti: Recruitment of muscle.

0:53:03.6 Jordan Syatt: It absolutely recruits it.

0:53:03.8 Mike Vacanti: It absolutely does.

0:53:04.7 Jordan Syatt: They’re wrong.

0:53:05.5 Mike Vacanti: It absolute does.

0:53:06.2 Jordan Syatt: They’re so wrong. I was so mad when they were saying that.

0:53:08.7 Mike Vacanti: Give me nice, like a nice little… Well, and I think part of it is too, is what’s most comfortable for your anatomy, I would put even more important than what muscle you’re trying to target, but a close and even little bit low stance, hitting the quads on a leg press absolutely.

0:53:23.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s like saying sumo deadlift and a conventional deadlift don’t change the muscle recruitment in your leg.

0:53:29.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:53:29.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s like of course it does.

0:53:31.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. Like, “Oh, stop doing your high wide stance leg press to recruit more hamstrings. It doesn’t work.” I was like, “Oh, well this person’s really smart, so maybe I’m an idiot.” But I’m pretty sure…

0:53:44.3 Jordan Syatt: When people, they’re always like, “Yeah, this EMG study.” But then the next time they’re talking about EMGs, they’re like, “EMG studies are worthless.” It’s like they use them when it works for them and they don’t use them when it doesn’t work for them. It’s like, let’s just use common sense here. Like where, how you position your body changes, how you.

0:54:00.1 Mike Vacanti: Your mechanics.

0:54:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Recruit your muscles. Like, come on. It’s not rocket science.

0:54:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m with you. I’m with you, dude. You know what leg press I really like actually, and I feel like I only see them in hotels randomly, are the, where you’re basically sitting in a chair and the leg press, you’re not pushing it up. You’re just pushing it like straightforward and backward.

0:54:23.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:54:24.7 Mike Vacanti: There’s a version of some of the versions of that I don’t love because even when you’re at the setting closest to the leg press, the range of motion’s still kind of crap.

0:54:32.7 Jordan Syatt: Yep.

0:54:33.7 Mike Vacanti: But there are certain variations of it where you can get in a really deep squat. And for those… It’s where the platform isn’t moving, the seat is moving.

0:54:44.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

0:54:46.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

0:54:47.5 Jordan Syatt: I know. Have you used a pendulum squat?

0:54:51.3 Mike Vacanti: No, I don’t think I have.

0:54:52.7 Jordan Syatt: Those are awesome. Louie had one. I think Louie’s gotten the patent for them. They’re amazing.

0:54:58.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, really?

0:54:58.7 Jordan Syatt: It, yeah. Yeah. It’s awesome. You could use it for like heavy, heavy… Google it, Google, like pendulum squat. So you see what it is like it’s you could use it for super heavy leg press style, but also you can use it unloaded for plyometric work. Like it’s pretty sick.

0:55:14.5 Mike Vacanti: Yep. Yep. This is what I was picturing. Yeah. This is sweet.

0:55:18.2 Jordan Syatt: I would like one of those in my gym one day. It’s really cool.

0:55:21.7 Mike Vacanti: Dude you should get one of these ASAP.

0:55:24.1 Jordan Syatt: I also want a belt squat.

0:55:25.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Those are amazing.

0:55:26.3 Jordan Syatt: But those are big.

0:55:27.7 Mike Vacanti: This looks big too.

0:55:29.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it is. It’s huge. It’s completely ridiculous to have in my home gym. It’s outrageously ridiculous.

0:55:34.0 Mike Vacanti: Which makes it even more like more reason to get it.

0:55:35.7 Jordan Syatt: I already got a preacher curl, which is probably the, without question, the dumbest thing I got for my home gym. Like I shouldn’t have gotten a preacher curl.

0:55:42.7 Mike Vacanti: Are you using it?

0:55:45.6 Jordan Syatt: I’m using it occasionally. Yes, I am. And I’m using it actually as like a faux reverse hyper extension right now. Like, I lean over and I’ll do reverse hypers on it, but I wanna get a real reverse hyper. So once I get that… I went through a brief, like I really wanna get biceps phase, and then that quickly died out. I was just like, “I just don’t really care so much.” And as I was going through that phase, that’s when I was out outfitting my gym.

0:56:10.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and you were like, “Ooh.”

0:56:12.0 Jordan Syatt: I was like, “I need the preacher curl.”

0:56:12.8 Mike Vacanti: Preacher curl. So many can do the cable, the barbell, the dumbbell. Like this is gonna get real use. That’s funny. Hey, you’re getting the alternative use out of it though.

0:56:25.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah.

0:56:25.2 Mike Vacanti: With the reverse hyper.

0:56:26.3 Jordan Syatt: And it’s nice when I do wanna do some lengthened work for the biceps.

0:56:30.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:56:31.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So it’s okay.

0:56:32.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I love a nice leg extension machine. It’s gotta be the right machine.

0:56:39.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:56:40.3 Mike Vacanti: But a good leg extension, getting a nice, big, deep stretch.

0:56:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Yep.

0:56:47.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s a handful of the quad exercises I like that came to mind. Dumbbell front squat.

0:56:54.7 Jordan Syatt: I think any lunge, any lunge, any split squat is great. Bulgarian split squat lunges, all that step ups are great. I actually really like sissy squats. And by like, I don’t really like them. I hate doing them, but they’re an amazing quad exercise. They’re also great for knee health. You know what’s so funny, dude? Do you remember when we were coming up in the industry, everyone hated on the extensions or leg extensions. Like everyone hated on them. Like they were just, you should never do them. And all the bodybuilders were like, “You guys are idiots.” This is an amazing quad exercise. And now it’s like, “Yeah, this is a really good quad exercise.” But the whole like athletic performance group was like, “Never ever do leg extensions. It’s just a waste of time.” But also they were doing hamstring curls and it was no issue whatsoever.

0:57:42.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s true. That’s true. Well, that’s because it was like, you need to train more posterior chain.

0:57:47.0 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:57:47.0 Mike Vacanti: Like posterior chain, posterior chain, posterior chain. That was why I felt like the hamstring curls, the leg curl machine was okay.

0:57:54.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:57:55.7 Mike Vacanti: Even though most machines are garbage and leg extensions are the worst of the machines, but these are okay. Yeah. The hate on machines in general, which I fell into to an extent, is probably one of the bigger regrets from like a not only in educating the public perspective, but also in terms of my own training.

0:58:17.8 Jordan Syatt: Same.

0:58:18.7 Mike Vacanti: The amount of excess, kind of complicated, difficult free weight movements when I didn’t have aspirations to improve those movements and could have spent that time building muscle in a more safe and as effective, if not more effective way with some machine work, missed opportunities.

0:58:39.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude machines are great. I remember there was like, from probably 2011 to… Probably 2011-2015, where I was just like, I hated the Smith machine because I was told the Smith machine was terrible. And then I got on it, I think I was just at a hotel gym, probably traveling or, no, no. You know what? It must’ve been 2000… Oh yeah, it was 2015. I was living in Israel. The gyms in Israel were not nearly as good, but they had a Smith machine and I started using it and I was like, this thing is actually awesome. I really like this thing.

0:59:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Yep. That’s pretty early. I feel like Smith machine was still getting hate in 2015.

0:59:15.2 Jordan Syatt: It was, it was. I remember I made an infographic about it, because I was traveling with Gary and I, like, I was nervous about posting it because I like spoke about how it’s actually really good and I was worried people were gonna hate on me. They were like, “You’re an idiot. Dah, dah, dah, dah. It doesn’t work your stabilizers.” And I was like, “No.” It’s like, and then you ask like, “Which stabilizers?” And they don’t know what they’re talking about. But yeah, machines are great, but so sissy squats, the natural leg extension or reverse Nordics are a really great exercise as well.

0:59:46.4 Mike Vacanti: Reverse Nordic?

0:59:48.2 Jordan Syatt: These are brutal. I actually just did these today. They’re reverse Nordic.

0:59:52.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, yeah.

0:59:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Those are, especially for the woman who’s asking about body weight exercises. Sissy squats and reverse Nordics are amazing for body weight strength training exercises for your quads, which is a notoriously difficult muscle group to hit with just body weight. So those two are awesome.

1:00:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And can get pretty advanced as well, especially for a body weight exercise. Alright, one more.

1:00:18.8 Jordan Syatt: What is a good cue to activate your pecs during a chest press exercise?

1:00:22.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s almost easier to learn how to activate your pecs doing movements other than pressing. Like, if you’re gonna learn how to activate your chest and develop that mind muscle, I would prefer a deep stretch, lighter weight dumbbell press rather than a barbell bench press, for example. But even like a cable crossover or a pec deck. I’m thinking of like my early days of lifting and when I could feel my chest those are gonna be more effective in helping start to develop that mind muscle connection with your chest. In terms of actual queuing on a horizontal pressing movement to feel your chest more, I really like, because part of what helps you feel your chest more is getting a bigger stretch and reaching your sternum to the sky, even though you’re not actually moving, but thinking about reaching your sternum to the sky during the lowering portion of the movement really helps you feel your chest more.

1:01:42.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And then from the concentric side of it, what’s always helped me is just like I used to have, like, if you have a training partner that can literally put their hand in between your pecs, like right on your sternum and you actively think about squeezing their hand within your pecs, that’s always worked well for me. And if their hand isn’t there, then you could lay something on your chest or just actively think about trying to hug like someone’s hand if it was on, on your pecs, like just trying to squeeze your pecs together.

1:02:13.1 Mike Vacanti: If you don’t have a training partner, just ask the first person you see in the gym.

1:02:16.7 Jordan Syatt: Hey, put your hand on my chest.

1:02:20.1 Mike Vacanti: Like this. Don’t do that.

1:02:23.4 Jordan Syatt: That is something that I, when I was power lifting, I really, that screwed me up because I spent so much time not focusing on my pecs that like2 my lats are way more developed than my pecs because I spent so much time working on my lats in the bench press as opposed to the chest. And it was only after I stopped power lifting that I was like, “Oh shit, I actually really need to work on my chest.”

1:02:45.7 Mike Vacanti: Well, but your goal was maximum strength development. So it didn’t…

1:02:49.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct. It wasn’t pec development. Yeah.

1:02:52.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And if you thought you could have got there via your pecs versus your lats, I assume you will.

1:02:57.5 Jordan Syatt: I would’ve focused more on that, for sure.

1:03:00.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You weren’t thinking muscle group, you were thinking strength.

1:03:04.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

1:03:07.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s a good one. I like that one too. And just like in terms of mind muscle connection and feeling various body parts, being properly hydrated, not being on a zero salt diet and not being on a zero carb diet are all ways to give you the best possible chance at feeling your muscles when you’re strength training.

1:03:32.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s it. I hope you, we hope you enjoyed the podcast. Please leave a five star review on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you are. It helps the podcast immensely. It’s how we grow. So please, if you haven’t left one, leave one. The written reviews are the best. Huge thank you to everyone who has left written reviews. It means the world to us. Anything else you wanna leave them with, Mike?

1:03:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Hey, we’re here every week. We appreciate you. Have an awesome week. Get after it and we will see you next Tuesday.

1:03:58.6 Jordan Syatt: See you.