Episode 192: Willpower, Reverse Pyramid Training, Social Media Algorithm, and More…

0:00:12.1 Mike Vacanti: Hello Jordan.

0:00:12.7 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:13.2 Mike Vacanti: Bro. Dessert in moderation is the best vice.

0:00:17.8 Jordan Syatt: Wow. I didn’t expect you to say that. I thought you were gonna go the other way.

0:00:20.9 Mike Vacanti: No, of all the, like, if you think of the spectrum of sex addiction, alcoholism, like whatever the classic vices are, and you pair your way all the way back down to something that’s enjoyable, but also not nearly as if at all detrimental to your physiology or psychology, even beneficial to your psychology, dessert and moderation is where it’s at.

0:00:47.9 Jordan Syatt: I a 100% would’ve expected you to say exercise is the best vice.

0:00:53.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think it’s a vice.

0:00:54.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:00:54.9 Mike Vacanti: ‘Cause it’s pain. Like, if you think of immediate, there’s two ways to get pleasure. Like cheap, immediate, artificial, porn, sugar, etcetera. And then there’s cold bath, jumping out of an airplane, running a marathon, doing these things that give you pain, but then you get delayed pleasure from it.

0:01:16.1 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yep, yep. Got it. Got it. Okay. Nice. What’s your dessert as of late?

0:01:21.6 Mike Vacanti: You’re so good at asking the questions. Some chocolate chip cookies I think, that was probably the most recent.

0:01:30.3 Jordan Syatt: Like homemade chocolate chip cookies or like the Pillsbury Doughboy?

0:01:33.7 Mike Vacanti: Nah homemade.

0:01:34.5 Jordan Syatt: Did your wife make them?

0:01:35.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:01:36.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, that’s awesome.

0:01:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:01:37.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s amazing.

0:01:38.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.

0:01:39.3 Jordan Syatt: My daughter’s been doing that lately. We’ll wake up like, “Hey, what do you want for breakfast?” “Cookie” And then she’ll like, do like the cookie monster, like cookie.

[laughter]

0:01:48.8 Mike Vacanti: She’s got it.

0:01:50.1 Jordan Syatt: No, not for breakfast.

[laughter]

0:01:52.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But she knows what’s up. She’s…

0:01:55.7 Jordan Syatt: She knows. She’s like this is a good vice. This is a good vice.

0:01:58.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:02:00.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Just give me one, just one, just one cookie.

0:02:01.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s the perfect vice.

0:02:01.7 Jordan Syatt: For breakfast.

[laughter]

0:02:02.0 Mike Vacanti: In moderation. The willpower instinct. How are you enjoying it? Jordan and I started a book.

0:02:07.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Mike told me, he’s like, “Hey, you gotta read this book.” And so…

0:02:13.0 Mike Vacanti: And how often do I tell you, “Hey, you have to read a book?”

0:02:16.1 Jordan Syatt: It used to be more often in 2017, 2018, 2019 and now, it’s maybe once a year.

0:02:21.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay. So once a year over the last five years, because I, within one chapter, I saw threads of previous versions of you and I in the book that I have for sure lost. I don’t know where you’re at, but I know I’ve lost. And I thought we would benefit from picking up some of those ideas that benefited us in the past.

0:02:48.6 Jordan Syatt: Willpower’s always something that no matter who you are, where you’re from, what your goals are, how old you are, how young you are, it doesn’t matter. Like it’s always worth exploring how to improve your willpower. It’s like the, it’s actually really cool. The first chapter, I’m still in the middle of the, so we got through the introduction. I’m like halfway through the first chapter for all the OG listeners. This is not gonna be like Outlive Peter Attia. We’re gonna read this whole book. But it was the evolutionary aspect of willpower, why we needed to, or why we developed it from an evolutionary perspective actually made a lot of sense. I know it’s a theory, but it does make a lot of sense. And it was at the very least enjoyable to consume that part of the book thus far.

0:03:37.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And the reminder that willpower is a muscle like your biceps or your triceps, and that you can actually increase the amount of willpower you have by training it similar to a muscle, like physiologically increasing the amount of gray matter in the prefrontal cortex of your brain. And so I started it before you obviously, but in chapter two, he starts or she starts talking about exercise. It’s a female author, male narrator of the audiobook. But she starts talking about exercise. There’s a little bit on meditation. All of these things that have worked in the past for me at improving willpower. It’s like, why do I forget these things that I know work so well?

0:04:28.6 Jordan Syatt: And this is a complete aside and we’ll go back to it, but I wish that she did the audio. Like I don’t like it when authors use someone else to do the audio. I’d rather hear it directly from the author. I didn’t even realize that it was a female author. Just ’cause it’s a male reader. I didn’t even know that.

0:04:46.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:04:47.3 Jordan Syatt: I feel like you develop a closer relationship with the author when it’s actually them doing it.

0:04:51.9 Mike Vacanti: I can see that perspective.

0:04:53.4 Jordan Syatt: You don’t mind either way.

0:04:54.4 Mike Vacanti: I’d prefer having a good reader, especially because most authors… Look, if I followed her on social media and was a fan of her, and then she wrote a book, I think I would’ve similar to like Gary or even our book doing audio books, that makes sense. But when I’m only there for the ideas and not the individual, it doesn’t bother me.

0:05:17.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s immediately created more empathy too. Because in this first couple of chapters talking about she’s… Wow, she’s explaining.

[chuckle]

0:05:31.1 Jordan Syatt: I was just gonna say he, ’cause it’s the guy reading it, but she’s explaining how in her course that just completely warped my brain. I didn’t realize it was a female author. So this whole time I’m imagining a dude giving, ’cause this is based on her course and against Stanford, like her 10-week course. So, but she’s explaining how, in this course, like all the most common issues people struggle with in terms of willpower. Whether it’s drugs, whether it’s money, whether it’s sex, whether it’s like, and it’s funny because as she’s going through this list, I’m like, oh, I don’t struggle with that. I don’t struggle with that. I don’t, oh, I do struggle with that. So it does, like, it gives you more empathy and understanding of, oh wow. So if you struggle with this at a high level, but you don’t struggle with these, it can give you more empathy to understand. So the urges that you struggle with in this are exactly how other people feel in relation to other willpower-related issues. It’s very interesting.

0:06:37.0 Jordan Syatt: And it gave me more, like, for example, I don’t struggle with spending money, like the urge to spend money is so foreign to me because my fear of losing money and losing everything essentially prevents me from doing that. It’s just like I… And I guess I don’t really need things very much. So like, the idea of like, I know there are people who struggle so much with spending money as soon as they get it, oh, I gotta spend it, I gotta spend it, and I can now have more empathy for… Oh wow. Like, I can relate my urges and what I struggle with to what they’re struggling with, even though I don’t go through what they go through.

0:07:15.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s a really good point. Yeah. Oh, the two you’s was awesome too. In any situation, there’s two parts of you that are essentially both you. And one wants what’s best for you. And the other one wants… We could just call it one is good and one is bad. Like one wants the “good thing” and one wants the “bad thing” And by improving your willpower, you’re going to increase your frequency of acting in alignment with the you that is the good version, rather than the one that’s giving in to the temptation, the one who’s…

0:08:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Did she say in the book though, like, don’t call it the bad one. I thought that she said don’t call it the bad one.

0:08:05.9 Mike Vacanti: Maybe.

0:08:06.3 Jordan Syatt: I think that’s why she said we should name it. Yeah. I think she said like, give it a name. Because like that calling it the bad one leads to worse outcomes. Like that shaming that guilting when it’s like, this is the bad one, this is the good one. When it’s… It’s both you, but you give it a name. I think I forget exactly how she phrased it, but I did think that was really interesting and it did bring it back to as a coach, good foods, bad foods, da, da, da, like it could be… You know what I mean?

0:08:39.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s interesting because for a lot of people will, and I could relate to the food aspect and some of the food examples that she gives. I don’t like thinking of good and bad in terms of food, just because I genuinely don’t believe that the “bad choice” the less nutritionally dense choice is actually bad. So I almost like, given my experience with nutrition, set that in a separate category because for so many other temptations, I believe…

0:09:14.3 Jordan Syatt: Objectively is that.

0:09:15.8 Mike Vacanti: There is objectively good and evil.

[chuckle]

0:09:17.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:09:18.0 Mike Vacanti: Like right there is like…

0:09:18.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s a good point.

0:09:19.6 Mike Vacanti: God, satan, there is what, whatever you wanna call it, there is even like a materialist atheist could make an argument, could try to make an argument for good, bad, objectively.

0:09:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:09:32.0 Mike Vacanti: Whereas like cookie versus apple. Sometimes cookie’s good, sometimes apple’s good. Depends on the context. Depends on who you are. Depends on what you struggle with.

0:09:41.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s a good point.

0:09:42.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:09:42.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, like cheating on your…

0:09:43.9 Mike Vacanti: So, I don’t like bad food…

0:09:46.2 Jordan Syatt: Partner is objectively bad.

0:09:46.7 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

0:09:47.9 Jordan Syatt: Right? It’s objectively bad.

0:09:47.9 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

0:09:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Even, and yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. That makes total sense. Yeah.

0:09:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

0:09:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:09:55.2 Mike Vacanti: But yeah naming the one who gives into temptations, there’s, I’m now blending chapter one and chapter two a little bit. But she talks about like research that shows even small amounts of sleep deprivation have a massive negative impact on willpower and a very small amount of increased sleep. So if you’re sleep deprived just one night, you’re more likely to do XYZ “bad things” But just a 20-minute nap will give you like multiple hours of a refilled tank of willpower.

0:10:37.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh really? Man. Naps.

0:10:42.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So, I mean, a lot of obvious stuff, but it’s, I’m really enjoying it so far.

0:10:48.4 Jordan Syatt: I was looking at my watch the other day just going through it, ’cause it’s a relatively new watch and it was, I was looking through my health stats and I was looking at sleeping…

0:10:57.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s a Rolex? You got a Rolex?

0:11:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Shut… No. I can’t get a Rolex. You got a Rolex.

0:11:00.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s true. The best. When did you learn…

0:11:06.6 Jordan Syatt: No. It’s…

0:11:06.8 Mike Vacanti: When did you learn that? Like third grade?

0:11:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Probably third, second or third grade. And whenever they say like…

0:11:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, someone says something to you…

0:11:12.2 Jordan Syatt: You’re an idiot.

0:11:13.1 Mike Vacanti: You say it back to them. Yeah.

[laughter]

0:11:20.9 Mike Vacanti: But no, it’s…

0:11:22.1 Jordan Syatt: No…

0:11:22.2 Mike Vacanti: What kinda watch is it?

0:11:22.3 Jordan Syatt: You lent me this. You you gifted me this watch. This Garmin watch. You gifted me this Fenix 7.

0:11:29.3 Mike Vacanti: No, you gifted me.

0:11:29.9 Jordan Syatt: No, you didn’t actually… No, but this is a new one, and I was joking.

0:11:32.9 Mike Vacanti: Oh.

0:11:33.2 Jordan Syatt: ‘Cause you said I have a Rolex. Anyway… But anyway. No, I got a Garmin.

0:11:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Did your humor just go way over my head?

0:11:41.5 Jordan Syatt: It was probably just a bad joke.

0:11:42.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:11:44.3 Jordan Syatt: It was just a bad joke.

0:11:44.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:11:44.5 Jordan Syatt: Like one of the subsets under sleep was naps, and I was just like, oh man. Just… In my mind, I was like, who’s taking naps? It’s like who has the time for naps, bro?

0:11:58.5 Mike Vacanti: When you are REM deprived, there’s a lot of good research around biphasic sleep schedules for people who can’t get enough sleep in one straight shot during the night for whatever reason. But getting, if you’re deprived of REM, when you take a nap, you fall immediately into REM sleep. And so even like, I don’t know if it’s 15 or 12 or 18, somewhere in that minutes of a nap is really beneficial.

0:12:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Bro, I’m not hating on the benefits. I’m just saying at my current season of life in no, there is no world in which I’m taking a nap. Even like if I… Let’s say I was away on a business trip.

0:12:40.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna challenge you on this one because you work out every day.

0:12:41.7 Jordan Syatt: There’s no way I do that.

0:12:44.5 Mike Vacanti: You’re getting workouts and those are way longer than 15 minutes.

0:12:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct. But I’m not prioritizing a nap over a workout. There’s no world in which I’m doing that unless I haven’t slept for four days. I don’t know. You know what’s funny. It’s actually an interesting topic. I would probably rather go on a walk than take a nap at this point in my life. Like I feel like I would feel better getting outside, being in the sun, moving, fresh air, than staying in the house and taking a 20-minute nap.

0:13:11.6 Mike Vacanti: Then you’re probably not sleep deprived.

0:13:13.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s a real possibility.

0:13:15.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:13:16.7 Jordan Syatt: I liked in the book the conversations of the people who had issues where like those parts of their brain were literally gone. Like the guy who went, had that issue at the railroad tracks and the pipe went through his face and through his skull and literally gray matter was on the ground. And then the doctor’s like… They physically stitched him up and physically fixed him, but that part of his brain, the prefrontal cortex, was so severely damaged that he like didn’t have any willpower anymore. And it was just like, it was wild how that negatively affected him. And also the woman, and it took away her instincts, what did it take away from her? It took away her natural instincts of fear and…

0:14:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Disgust.

0:14:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Disgust, yes. And like she was caught…

0:14:11.3 Mike Vacanti: So she started making passes at her family members.

[laughter]

0:14:16.2 Jordan Syatt: Like, publicly…

0:14:16.3 Mike Vacanti: Like sexual advances.

[laughter]

0:14:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Just like really crazy. Really, really crazy. And it’s sort of, you need both. You need both.

0:14:26.9 Mike Vacanti: You know what’s interesting is I know someone who experienced this. Not the…

0:14:30.9 Jordan Syatt: No way.

0:14:32.2 Mike Vacanti: None of the sexual stuff, but personality change from a physical brain trauma. Yeah. Like an older person…

0:14:39.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh jeez.

0:14:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Who had a really bad, got hit by a car in a parking lot.

0:14:47.6 Jordan Syatt: God jeez.

0:14:47.6 Mike Vacanti: She was walking. And yeah, really bad. Her personality changed like overnight from it.

0:14:55.1 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:14:56.1 Mike Vacanti: And some of the big differences were the ones described in the book where she used to be very health conscious, very like for her whole life. She was making really good food choices. And it was almost one of her main things. And afterwards, after the accident, she had like, not toddler-like instincts, but like young child-like instincts in terms of…

0:15:23.3 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:15:24.6 Mike Vacanti: Fruit snacks or like eating like cereal just with her hands type, like a real personality change. Yeah.

0:15:31.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s devastating. Is she able to function on her own or no?

0:15:37.8 Mike Vacanti: I mean, at this point, I believe she’s over 90 years old now. So she has some help. Has some help.

0:15:46.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s crazy.

0:15:47.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, her personality changed from the accident.

0:15:50.4 Jordan Syatt: Wow. I’m sorry, bro.

0:15:53.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it’s very sad.

0:15:54.8 Jordan Syatt: Fruit snacks are super good though to be fair.

0:15:57.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I almost am not painting it…

0:16:00.1 Jordan Syatt: No, I’m joking. I’m joking. I was trying to make a humor in a terrible situation. I apologize.

[laughter]

0:16:04.8 Mike Vacanti: I agree. I think fruit snacks are an underrated back to the beginning of the episode. I love fruit snacks.

0:16:10.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:16:11.2 Mike Vacanti: And one of the reasons to wrap the vice thing, one of the reasons I like dessert in moderation as an acceptable and like the best vice is because there’s also benefit to it. Like there’s very little benefit to heroin. There’s very little benefit to alcohol. Like I’m sure you can make arguments, but…

0:16:34.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:16:36.1 Mike Vacanti: But like fruit snacks are actually giving you…

0:16:38.6 Jordan Syatt: Pre workout.

0:16:39.3 Mike Vacanti: They’re giving you… Well, more than… Yes. And they’re just giving you energy to live. We need calories to live. So are they the best choice? A sweet potato, 100 grams of sweet potato versus fruits? Like, is it the best thing you can eat? No, but there are benefits.

0:16:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Man, I remember being in elementary school and fruit snacks. I think they were like 50 cents or something. They did this little snack cart in the cafeteria. And I would just get one pack occasionally. And I don’t know, they were small packs. But I would just eat one pack. And I was like totally satisfied. I was like, this is great. And I would savor each bite and just they were full of flavor. And now I see these, like if I could eat an entire box and still probably not be satisfied of fruit snack. You know what I mean? It’s just like when you’re a kid, there’s something about it. And I don’t know, at least for me, if I had one of those little packages now, I could inhale the whole thing in half a second.

0:17:42.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s like when I watch my daughter, she’ll have a Munchkin. We go to Dunkin’ Donuts once, like maybe once a month, a couple times a month. She could literally not even finish a Munchkin and just be totally happy. A Munchkin.

0:17:53.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s like 70 cals, like a little…

0:17:57.1 Jordan Syatt: A donut hole. 70 cals… It’s a little hole… And she could have like a couple of nibbles, be like, I’m good. It’s incredible.

0:18:02.6 Mike Vacanti: I believe that that is the absence of chronic stress on a child compared to an adult, like being in a, because for you right now or for me, that isn’t, it isn’t a function of being so lean or like trying to over restrict calories, which makes you when you do enjoy something you want a lot of it. It’s more wanting the, I mean, part of it’s serving size too, right? You’re bigger now than you were when you were in sixth grade, seventh grade.

0:18:37.3 Jordan Syatt: A little barely. I’m joking.

[laughter]

0:18:38.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s not true.

[laughter]

0:18:43.2 Mike Vacanti: So part of it is that, you know what I’m sick of dude? I’m sick of the supplement space.

0:18:50.5 Jordan Syatt: Bro go off.

0:18:54.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m seeing so much junk right? I’m seeing so many different brands going for this like our protein powder is nutter butter, our protein powder is Oreo, our protein powder is this like sexification of the the far end of IIFYM that I thought had peaked years ago but it’s almost like supplement companies and corporations. But remember the peak of like IIFYM food porn where it’s just all this artificial sweetener all this instagram accounts have hundreds of thousands or millions of followers and people are like oh my gosh says 40 grams of protein and like very little carb fat and it’s not even real food at the end of the day right? It’s sauces and syrups and whippings and fluffs and data that like and yes there’s a place for it in moderation if you’re trying to lose fat and you want some sweet some enjoyment some satiety.

0:19:57.4 Mike Vacanti: But seeing the number of supplement companies that are trying to come out with all these glamorous like product and I don’t wanna name any name it literally feels like most of them it’s just like can we just get back to eating normal food.

0:20:16.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah just food.

0:20:16.6 Mike Vacanti: Eat your protein, drink your water, eat some fiber, track if you’re trying to lose fat or build muscle or have more dialed goals but like eat food eat vegetables eat fruit go for a walk get enough sleep like this. Because the other side of it isn’t just on the supply side meaning the supplement companies are making these products it’s also.

0:20:39.5 Mike Vacanti: The rising number of people or maybe it was always a desire from people to have this magic pill that’s going to give them perfect gut health, that’s going to give them the best microbiome, that’s going to give them all of their daily vitamin and mineral needs in just one little wheat crash out first thing in the morning that’s going to give them the electrolytes to hydrate their body properly because your hydration is broken, all this like it just seems like it’s getting more out of control than it was before. And even though I know there is some value to some of the supplements like borderline a minority of the supplements now I almost want to contrary and go the other way and just be like they’re so far down on the list of importance especially relative to how much attention they get.

0:21:27.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude I completely agree with you I think it was maybe a month ago within the last two months at most I made a big post about how upset I was. How many people ask me about creatine because when I do a Q&A not since I made this post but when I do a Q&A the most common question I’ve gotten for years is about creatine even now and I still do Q&A I still get them from new followers or people who missed the post but it’s about creatine should I take creatine is creatine good for women over 40 is creatine good for a high school kid creatine, creatine, creatine, creatine, creatine everything about creatine how much creatine should I take how long is the loading phase what type of creatine.

0:22:07.4 Jordan Syatt: And I was like I got so mad I ended up making a really like angry post at like 10:00 PM. My wife was like what are you doing I was like I’m making this fucking post I’m just so angry ’cause that’s usually when I do my Q&A at night. And I was like listen yeah creatine is one of the actual few supplements that legitimately has benefits is one of the few that actually makes sense to promote it is one of the few but I know for a fact the vast majority of you asking me about creatine haven’t worked out consistently for three years. You haven’t had a salad in the last three fucking years you never hit your protein intake you like you don’t go get your steps in you’re up until 4:00 in the morning scrolling and then let you like you’re drinking alcohol four or five times a week like you aren’t being consistent with anything and you’re asking me about creatine.

0:23:04.7 Jordan Syatt: No you should only even think about it if you’ve been consistent with strength training consistent with cardio consistent with nutrition consistent with sleep for at least three years and it should not be the most common question in my Q&A not even remotely close and that’s one of the good supplements. I guess one of the supplements that actually makes sense nevermind the shit supplements.

0:23:28.8 Mike Vacanti: Preach we are fully aligned on this one.

0:23:31.2 Jordan Syatt: I made a big, you see my post on electrolytes yesterday.

0:23:32.9 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think so.

0:23:32.9 Jordan Syatt: People got really mad ’cause it’s another big one which and actually by the way another supplement that actually can make sense. I would say it makes sense less than creatine does with a smaller portion of the population but basically I’m seeing all these motherfuckers promoting their LMNT.

0:23:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Everywhere.

0:23:56.0 Jordan Syatt: Electrolytes everyone. Everyone’s doing it and I made this whole post I was like do you realize number one that they can actually be very dangerous if you don’t need them people are hospitalized regularly for them I was like there are some people who it makes sense for if you are an endurance athlete it can make sense for you if you’re training and sweating a lot.

0:24:27.2 Jordan Syatt: If you work in manual labor especially if you’re working out in the heat and sweating a lot it can make sense, if you’re pregnant or breastfeeding it can make sense it might actually it could potentially make sense for people on GLP1s and there are other potential like if you have POTS some other medical issues there it might make sense but if you’re a recreational lifter and you’re lifting in an air-conditioned gym three to four times a week for 30 to 60 minutes and you’re barely sweating.

0:24:52.1 Jordan Syatt: You have no reason to be taking these things and actually it can cause cardiac issues, it can cause real fucking problems and I made that post and a number of nurses and doctors were commenting and I pinned their comments being like thank you for saying this we’re seeing an increased number of people who are being hospitalized for it, it’s just it’s insane and so many people are pushing it.

0:25:13.0 Mike Vacanti: Preach, people don’t realize that they’re consuming something that they already are getting in their foods and they don’t know how much they’re getting in their foods nor do they know how much they’re getting in these packets nor do they know what they should be targeting on a daily basis and so, I would imagine it depends on the product right because the sodium to potassium ratio is different depending on what electrolyte you’re taking but I would imagine there’s more over consumption I mean obviously you can over consume potassium and there’s downsides to that too but over consumption of sodium doesn’t seem difficult if you’re eating like a decent amount of processed foods if you enjoy your like if you’re salting your foods and then you layer on top of that having electrolytes and you’re not sweating very much.

0:26:03.1 Jordan Syatt: And by the way my wife uses electrolytes because she has really low blood pressure.

0:26:09.9 Mike Vacanti: I use electrolytes once in a blue moon when I need to if I’m playing 36 holes of golf and it’s 90 degrees outside and I don’t have an opportunity to have a salty meal at the turn and I only am consuming potassium I’ve had two bananas for snacks I’m like okay I wanna get some sodium in me great I’ll put a sodium packet in a 24 ounce thing of water or an electrolyte packet and get 500 megs right there or get 750 right there but few and far between you don’t just take it first thing in the morning because adenosine system and da da da and don’t drink caffeine but have a lot of electrolytes.

0:26:42.5 Jordan Syatt: Then these people being like what if you’re regularly hung over like then you’ve got other fucking problems if you’re regularly, you’ve got other fucking problems outside electrolytes all right dear lord.

0:27:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah yeah at the end of the day not just this electrolyte thing but kind of back to your creatine the high levels of interest and questions about creatine and hyper focus on supplements in general from the gen pop it doesn’t seem like it’s much different than the instinct that’s always been there for a shortcut for if I can take this instead of doing this and it’s gonna get me a positive result any kind of like magic pill belief where if I can get results by taking this thing instead of doing the hard thing great I’m gonna do it the problem is that that quick fix basically doesn’t exist in any area of life.

0:27:47.8 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:27:47.9 Mike Vacanti: What this might be interesting a little present day update what if any supplements do you take right now regularly.

0:27:56.2 Jordan Syatt: Regularly in well it’s sort of a you caught me at a real crossroads ’cause in this moment and for the last few months nothing like I’m doing two daily walks out in the sun when the UV index is three or below so I haven’t been putting sunscreen on and so I have been taking vitamin D I’ve been eating salmon at least three times a week usually more so I haven’t been having fish oil. I don’t take any supplements and I mean if we’re counting protein powder I’ll have that a couple times a week after I work out but I actually just partnered with Marek Health so I’m in the process of getting all of those figured out so I would imagine by the end of the month I’ll start like they took my blood work they figured out what I’m like what they want me to work on so I will be taking stuff with it by the end of the month but for the last few months nothing.

0:28:58.8 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:29:00.5 Jordan Syatt: What are you taking?

0:29:01.0 Mike Vacanti: Protein powder but yet less than I was previously taking. I would say maybe 150 grams per week of protein be a protein powder so 25 grams a day.

[overlapping conversation]

0:29:21.4 Jordan Syatt: A day yeah that’s not, that’s yeah.

0:29:25.1 Mike Vacanti: Well and there’s nothing wrong with taking more than that either way.

0:29:27.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:29:38.1 Mike Vacanti: I think 50 grams of protein powder per day I think is a really solid way to get convenient tasty like good yeah good way to hit your protein targets I’m fully on board with that. Creatine inconsistently but when I remember to throw it in my protein shake I’ll throw it in there.

0:29:48.5 Jordan Syatt: How many times a week do you remember do you think.

0:29:50.1 Mike Vacanti: Three to four.

0:29:50.2 Jordan Syatt: You think you’re saturated or nearly saturated?

0:29:52.0 Mike Vacanti: No I don’t think I’m saturated no.

0:29:55.8 Jordan Syatt: Is it more like a mental thing?

0:29:56.5 Mike Vacanti: No I think it’s a better than nothing thing I think it’s a I’m not doing training volume where I need to be saturated but it’s like a yeah 10 to 12 grams a week maybe.

0:30:08.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:30:10.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah and vitamin D when I remember and then if I start feeling sick at any point in time I’ll high dose vitamin C for a couple of days which has been a very effective strategy in my in my 2.5 year streak of not getting actually sick knock on wood.

0:30:26.5 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know why that’s not more spoken about I actually made a post about that within the last year vitamin C is one of the another one of the very few supplements that actually has legitimate research behind it to help like you start feeling yourself get sick super dose some vitamin C. I do that my wife and I both do that and like very similarly like thank god we rarely ever get sick and oftentimes as soon as we start to feel it we take it and it will I would imagine reduce the duration ’cause if I used to get sick it would last for sometimes five days seven days and now it might be an overnight thing and there’s real research around vitamin C. I feel like it should really be talked about more.

0:31:04.3 Mike Vacanti: I do too. Duration.

0:31:09.0 Jordan Syatt: Intensity.

0:31:10.0 Mike Vacanti: Likelihood of getting sick and intensity of how sick or not sick you get and yeah ’cause it’s not binary right like you can kind of start to feel a couple of cold symptoms or whatever and they’re gone and in 24 to 48 hours or you start to feel that and then you actually end up getting sick. How much vitamin C do you take when you do that?

0:31:30.3 Jordan Syatt: I just take one emergency packet at night. And that’s it and I mean I think I get a fair amount of vitamin C throughout the day like probably more than average just I eat a fair amount of fruit.

0:31:44.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So a gram a 1,000 milligrams of vitamin C, I’ll actually do one to two emergencies per day when I’m starting to feel sick and with that vitamin C capsule or whatever a one gram vitamin C capsule, so I’ll I’ll go for a gram three times per day spread out drinking lots of water.

0:32:07.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow does your pee get like neon.

0:32:08.0 Mike Vacanti: No I haven’t had neon pee since I don’t know since I took some random multivitamin eight to 10 years ago, it’s like what is in this thing.

[laughter]

0:32:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh man.

0:32:21.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay so we’ll dive into questions I have one last random kind of thought it’s so hard to do and you definitely can’t relate to this right now with a 2-year-old and a three how old Slim Jim.

0:32:35.6 Jordan Syatt: Four weeks yesterday I think.

0:32:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah four week and a 2-year-old but if possible and if anyone ever wants to try this only having caffeine before your workouts and at no other point in time, so like on days you don’t work out. It’s been a real first of all the benefits are tremendous in terms of training enjoyment and training and like my workouts the secondary benefit is because caffeine is a stimulant on a rest day where you’re recovering from your workout if you are maximizing the amount of parasympathetic nervous system activity or the amount of rest and digest.

0:33:25.4 Mike Vacanti: The amount of chill out not having a stimulant has been extremely beneficial for me in terms of digestion in terms of how my body has felt on those days any knots any like little aches or pains have been minimized for whatever reason and the third benefit that I’ve noticed is the opportunity to build willpower by doing difficult things without caffeine and so for what? 13, 12 years, for 12 years I would say 99.9% of times when I’ve worked I’ve been caffeinated I wake up and have coffee immediately basically every day of the last 12 years. If I don’t do that it’s obviously more difficult to do any kind of work but pushing through that has been a fun challenge we’ll say.

0:34:29.1 Jordan Syatt: I like that yeah you mentioned it the other day and I think it sounded like the one of the biggest ones for you is like the digestion side of it how it improves your digestion.

0:34:36.3 Mike Vacanti: And my digestion is really good and so off of that baseline I didn’t know I had room for improvement.

0:34:44.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s amazing.

0:34:46.3 Mike Vacanti: Something to consider I’m not definitely not pushing this on you right now two young kids but…

0:34:51.5 Jordan Syatt: You’re just trying to make my life even harder.

[laughter]

0:34:53.2 Mike Vacanti: No this one’s for the listeners.

0:34:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Trying to get me to not have caffeine just like all right everyone listening, for anyone listening.

0:35:02.6 Mike Vacanti: You should. There’s so many benefits to caffeine there’s so many benefits but for me personally as someone who has I’ve decreased the amount of caffeine I’ve had over the years I used to be in the 400 to 500 milligrams a day range and now I over the last several years I’ve been in the 100 to 300 milligrams a day range but oh and sleep quality is the other thing that’s been wild on no caffeine days obviously.

0:35:26.4 Jordan Syatt: Man you’re really just rubbing it in right now.

[laughter]

0:35:28.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m…

0:35:32.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh sleep quality has been good.

[laughter]

0:35:37.2 Mike Vacanti: How’s your sleep quality, it’s really meant to be for anyone who feels pulled to the idea of because caffeine is the most common most widely abused vice that we have and there are so many benefits physiological and psychological but it could be interesting for anyone who’s interested in the idea.

0:36:01.7 Jordan Syatt: Bro did we talk about last time the reverse hyper did we talk about that on the pod.

0:36:06.6 Mike Vacanti: No let’s talk about it but if I wanted you to do something. Do you think I would covertly be like hey audience you can try this if you’re interested as a way to try to get you to do it I’d be like Jordan you need to do this similar to.

0:36:18.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude I know.

0:36:20.7 Mike Vacanti: When I said buy willpower instinct and start listening we’re gonna pod about it in two days like okay.

[laughter]

0:36:28.6 Jordan Syatt: Bro the reverse we didn’t talk about this last time.

0:36:30.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think we talked about the delivery of your… I don’t remember but the scout got delivered.

0:36:36.5 Jordan Syatt: It got delivered man it feels amazing when I used to use the reverse hypers when I was training at Westside I was young, I was 21 and I hadn’t done any damage to my spine with insanely heavy lifting at that point and so I would do the reverse hyper and I’d be like yeah it feels fine like I don’t really notice anything though and now that I’ve got this bulging disc I get on the reverse hyper and the immediate relief that I feel with the traction on my spine is unlike anything else I’ve ever felt with any other exercise I’ve ever done ever. It is…

0:37:16.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s amazing.

0:37:19.0 Jordan Syatt: Like immediate range of motion increases immediate relief, and it is more acute, like it doesn’t last all day, but like it will for hours immediately and for a few hours, like have a certain level of relief, and then I think long-term, it will help with the healing more quickly, the physical therapist came yesterday and she’s like, wow like much better, much, much, much better already, and I’ve been doing the exercises she gave, so I’m sure it’s all contributing. But man, it’s, yeah… The reverse hyper, and it was only like 350, 400 bucks, like best piece of equipment, best like 400 bucks ever spent, wild.

0:37:52.1 Mike Vacanti: We’ll link it in the show notes, no affiliate link, none of that.

0:37:57.3 Jordan Syatt: No affiliate link.

0:37:57.4 Mike Vacanti: None of that garbage here…

0:37:57.5 Jordan Syatt: I don’t even think they have affiliate link.

0:38:00.6 Mike Vacanti: But if you’re interested. Do you feel the benefit immediately after a set or, you probably do, but and/or do you feel good? Does your back feel good during the set? And if so…

0:38:17.9 Jordan Syatt: Both.

0:38:18.5 Mike Vacanti: Is there any part of the range of motion where you get even more relief where you’re like, oh, it feels really good at this part of each rep.

0:38:27.0 Jordan Syatt: At the halfway point of the rep when my feet are the most underneath me as I’m getting the traction on my spine, so it’s when I’m in lumbar flexion as the weights are pulling my feet away from me, with that momentum as my legs are going underneath the table, I feel the space in my spine opening up.

0:38:49.8 Mike Vacanti: When you are in the most stretched position of each rep?

0:38:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct, correct, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s just…

0:38:53.3 Mike Vacanti: Sweet.

0:38:54.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh my gosh, it’s incredible, then I get off and like I can do a toe touch, no problem, zero pain, it’s just, yeah, so very, very high. And then I can do that and I go into my regular workouts, no problem like, yeah. Dude, I deadlifted… You probably didn’t see this, someone asked me the other day, they were like, do you think all the mobility work is causing you to lose your strength? And so this is at 9:00 PM or it was 9:12 PM I had just put my girls down for bed.

0:39:21.5 Mike Vacanti: Hang on, hang on. You got a bulging disc that’s less than a month old, you got a comment about your deadlift and at right before bed you went in your garage and started heavy deadlifting?

0:39:34.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

[laughter]

0:39:37.7 Mike Vacanti: You’re different, bro, you’re on a different level.

0:39:40.1 Jordan Syatt: I was like, you think this… I’m losing strength. I was like, this… Absolutely not, so I slapped on 315, no warmups. You didn’t… Hold on, lemme show you this, I’ll show you.

0:39:53.2 Mike Vacanti: No, I fully believe you, and I’m not surprised at all on the physical side.

0:40:00.2 Jordan Syatt: You’re just like, it’s so stupid, yeah.

0:40:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m baffled that like with all of the low back stuff over the last six weeks or whatever it’s been.

0:40:06.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, my physical therapist saw it, she was like, what are you doing.

[laughter]

0:40:09.5 Mike Vacanti: What are you doing? That’s a wonderful question.

0:40:14.7 Jordan Syatt: Hold on, here we go, I’m gonna show you, this is… No warmup, 9:00 PM boom, no problem.

0:40:25.5 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I’m not impressed, I’m pissed at you.

[laughter]

0:40:30.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m disappointed.

[laughter]

0:40:34.4 Jordan Syatt: Looks pretty good though.

0:40:39.4 Mike Vacanti: Good… I’m not surprised at that though because, you built an incredible strength base and you continue to strength train, and so I don’t think that, focusing on flexibility for a period of time is… Well, I know that folks, you don’t have flexibility for a period of time isn’t gonna make you weak, I’m just surprised that given the nature of your injury and… Hey, at least you didn’t like conventional and put even more stress on your low back.

0:41:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, that would’ve been stupid, that would’ve been stupid, no, moderate sumo.

0:41:11.4 Mike Vacanti: Good job Jordan.

0:41:13.0 Jordan Syatt: I was pretty happy with it though, thanks man.

0:41:16.2 Mike Vacanti: I know. What did the person say?

0:41:22.3 Jordan Syatt: They were like, that’s awesome. I was like, yeah, yeah.

0:41:22.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you’re right it is, it is awesome.

0:41:25.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s pretty sick.

[laughter]

0:41:27.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m glad I only went 315. Part of me wanted to go 405. But I was like, you know what? I think 315 is plenty.

0:41:34.8 Mike Vacanti: If you would’ve gone 405 and re-tweaked your back…

0:41:39.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh my God. I would, yeah.

0:41:42.2 Mike Vacanti: That would’ve been so disheartening.

0:41:44.9 Jordan Syatt: It would’ve been terrible, I might have ripped a hamstring off the bone, ’cause like, I was like, 315 is something where I think I could do it pretty easily, which I did. 415… 405, would’ve been something where like, I probably would’ve really grinded through it and it would’ve been like one of those shaking lifts where like, you got the vein going outta my head, I’m like, and like that wouldn’t look as good.

[laughter]

0:42:04.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, for public perception, it’s almost like, if your average follower, it’s like what difference does your average follower see in three plates versus four plates and…

0:42:12.9 Jordan Syatt: Nothing.

0:42:13.9 Mike Vacanti: And then with like, if one of them looks easy and one of them is a little grindier, it’s almost 315 easy is more impressive than a grindy 405.

0:42:21.0 Jordan Syatt: 100% Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s so true.

0:42:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Alright, I’ll give you one more random thing and then we’re gonna do a true rapid fire where we answer five questions in 10 words or less each.

0:42:32.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay, I like that.

0:42:36.4 Mike Vacanti: I’ve noticed this phenomenon where going for walks in my neighborhood and other… It’s beautiful here in Minnesota, this time of year, people under the age of 40 don’t say hi, and not saying hi when you’re in a big city, not saying hi when you’re… I don’t know, it probably varies based on where you are in the world, definitely does. But when you’re walking by someone on a sidewalk and there’s no one else around and you see each other coming from a distance, it seems common courtesy, like normal socialization to at least smile and nod or like just an acknowledgement or a hey or a, hey, how’s it going? People 40 to 45 plus, especially in their 50s and 60s and older. We might have real conversations. But, men and women, 40 and under, it’s like 90 plus percent of the time they’ll strive to avoid eye contact and sometimes they’ll have sunglasses or like a hat pulled down or looking away or pretending not to know…

0:43:46.6 Jordan Syatt: Are they looking at their phone?

0:43:48.6 Mike Vacanti: No, not usually… No, they’re just avoiding looking at me, and maybe it’s a me thing, I don’t know. But I’ve noticed it’s distinctly, separated by age and I have some theories, I’m just curious what you think of that.

0:44:05.5 Jordan Syatt: In Minnesota, I would’ve expected it to be the exact opposite. I would’ve expected you to be like, people, all ages, everyone is just being like, “Hey, how are you?” I never would’ve expected, especially that breath, I could see between like 22 to 28 maybe doing that but I never would’ve expected like all the way up to 40, and here at least where we are, it’s the complete opposite. I can’t walk past two houses without someone opening up their window being like, “Hey, how’s it going?” Like, I can’t… People are always, “Hey, come on in.” Like, it’s everyone here whether it doesn’t matter if like a 17-year-old, this 6-year-old boy named Axel is like, he’s riding his bike and he’s got his like little horns on his helmet and every time he sees me, he starts going really, really, really fast. I’m like, what’s up Axel? And his mom is out there and she’s talking to us and, “Hey, can you come pet your dog?” Actually, a dog probably biases it, ’cause everyone likes to pet a dog, but yeah, it’s very odd, I never would’ve expected that for Minnesota. New York would make sense to me, Chicago but like…

0:45:19.5 Mike Vacanti: When you’re… Even like downtown Minneapolis, I wouldn’t expect it, but when you’re in a suburban neighborhood where there’s no one… You’re the only two people who are out within visibility at that time and you’re coming up to each other, it’s just, it’s bizarre, and I think.

0:45:37.0 Jordan Syatt: Are you carrying your water bottle when you’re walking?

0:45:39.3 Mike Vacanti: No, I’m not.

0:45:43.9 Jordan Syatt: You’re not? Alright, the only thing that I’ll say is…

0:45:45.7 Mike Vacanti: You think that would deter people?

0:45:45.8 Jordan Syatt: Well, just as someone who’s walked with you before.

0:45:51.5 Mike Vacanti: No, you don’t know how I walk in my neighborhood, these aren’t like, these are.

0:45:54.9 Jordan Syatt: You walk intimidatingly.

0:45:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Trust me, when I see people I like ease up, I smile, I’m looking at them, I’m waiting for them to look at me and I’m gonna acknowledge my neighbor. And I… Bro, I truly, and this is not a shot at prescription medication because I know it can be very important and even lifesaving for people in certain times in their lives, I think that we have an overmedicated generation.

0:46:23.6 Jordan Syatt: 100%

0:46:25.5 Mike Vacanti: And I think that’s contributing to antisocial behavior, I think that that…

0:46:31.3 Jordan Syatt: Adderall are you talking about?

0:46:32.9 Mike Vacanti: Maybe SSRIs, I don’t even know, I don’t even know which ones. I just see like weird behavior, yeah it could be some type of amphetamine, ritalin type stuff for people who are doing excess amounts of computer work, I don’t know. But that coupled with living online more than living in person, 1990s, we were literally living in person 2024, most people are spending, who knows, four, five six, seven plus hours a day of screen time.

0:47:06.3 Jordan Syatt: Easy.

0:47:06.4 Mike Vacanti: So if… Which of the… Yeah 10, I don’t know what’s driving more antisocial behavior, but I’m seeing it and I’m seeing it up to, like you said, you’d expect it more 22 to 28, I’m seeing it up to a higher age.

0:47:21.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s so odd. Yeah, my brain is just seeing you walk the way I know you walk, which is like, you walk… I know you probably walk differently in your town and you’re like much more relaxed, maybe a stroller.

0:47:35.8 Mike Vacanti: Bro you’re thinking of…

0:47:35.9 Jordan Syatt: I’m thinking you in New York City.

0:47:39.8 Mike Vacanti: You’re think you’re thinking OTR 2016 2017 on 500 mgs of caffeine trying to get from 10th street to 28th Street as fast as I can and just motoring, that’s not what I’m doing here, I’m literally out for a stroll, and smelling the flowers, getting the sunlight…

0:47:55.0 Jordan Syatt: And you’re all huge, you’re like 200 pounds and like 6% body like you were intimidating.

0:48:01.8 Mike Vacanti: Dude I’m huge… Hang on, hang on, first of all, I was never 200 pound 6% body fat at my height, I don’t even think that’s achievable natty. I was 193, 194 I think at the peak, and I was probably 14 to 15% body fat.

0:48:16.3 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:48:16.8 Mike Vacanti: Dude I bulked from like 170 to 195 or whatever it was, definitely. And by the way, I’m big now, what are you talking about.

[laughter]

0:48:26.5 Jordan Syatt: How much do you weigh right now?

0:48:27.6 Mike Vacanti: 182.

0:48:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow.

0:48:32.2 Mike Vacanti: All muscle.

0:48:32.4 Jordan Syatt: Wow, okay.

0:48:35.2 Mike Vacanti: Not all muscle.

0:48:35.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, I don’t know what that is.

0:48:35.2 Mike Vacanti: 182, 12%.

0:48:36.6 Jordan Syatt: I wonder if people are more socially awkward, maybe they’re just like, you know what, it’s very interesting.

0:48:39.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s funny you know what?

0:48:43.0 Jordan Syatt: What?

0:48:45.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t even wanna talk about this anymore, Jordan tried to make it a me thing, like people don’t wanna say hi to me, let’s do a challenge.

0:48:47.3 Jordan Syatt: It was a joke.

0:48:49.4 Mike Vacanti: Come to…

0:48:50.5 Jordan Syatt: I was joking, dear Lord.

0:48:52.2 Mike Vacanti: I’m not, I’m not joking, I’m gonna fly you to Minnesota and I’m gonna make you walk around my neighborhood and I’m just gonna observe, can’t wait.

0:48:57.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay, I guarantee you people are gonna say hi to me.

0:49:00.8 Mike Vacanti: I guarantee you this demo is not… In fact, they’re gonna cross the street…

0:49:02.8 Jordan Syatt: I guarantee you…

[laughter]

0:49:03.4 Mike Vacanti: They’re gonna see you coming and they’re gonna be like, cross the street.

0:49:04.3 Jordan Syatt: People are gonna… You’re gonna have 34 year olds running outta their house to have a conversation with me, watch.

0:49:14.5 Mike Vacanti: They’re literally gonna be like this guy with his cauliflower ear and his tattoo sleeve, this guy’s about to choke me out. What? Who is that? Is that Gordon Ryan? Get me outta here, that’s what they’re gonna be doing. Alright, rapid fire, rapid fire pour them out, this has been a good episode, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, subscribe, YouTube, like YouTube, leave us a comment, a five star review, we need it. Well this…

0:49:35.7 Jordan Syatt: We need it.

0:49:36.2 Mike Vacanti: We’re not gonna beg, we’re not gonna get on our knees, but like please now’s the time to help us out, if you’ve enjoyed the podcast, now’s the time, thank you.

0:49:47.6 Jordan Syatt: @erca7 said what difference does it make if you do or don’t eat protein right after a workout?

0:49:51.8 Mike Vacanti: If you have eaten protein within a few hours before your strength training, it doesn’t matter, you can have protein again, a half hour, an hour, two hours after your lift, just getting 30 to 40 grams, three to four times a day is gonna maximize the benefit. If you’re fasted and you haven’t consumed any protein before your strength training, there is benefit to getting protein immediately after, regardless of what the meme accounts and the fit fluencers will say about rushing to the locker room to slam your protein shake, if you’re fasted, if you’re strength training fasted and you haven’t had protein in 15 hours at your post-workout, let’s say your last protein was 8:00 PM you work out the next morning, you’re done with your workout at 9:00, 10:00 AM, yeah have protein immediately after your workout.

0:50:34.0 Jordan Syatt: Part of me misses the days of believing that you really needed to get your protein in so fast, like I remember being in high school.

0:50:43.9 Mike Vacanti: You do if you train fasted, I’m going the other way, you do.

[laughter]

0:50:50.7 Mike Vacanti: You do, if you’re fasted here, let’s do this, let’s do this. Anyone who wants to challenge me on this, who’s actually natty. Alright, none of you fake nattys. I want you to lift at 7:00 AM and then don’t eat any protein, don’t eat any protein, not a gram until 9:00 PM, wait 14 hours and do that for the next decade and let me know how those gains are. Alright? Yes, the anabolic window is overblown of course, but if you haven’t had protein in a while getting protein… I’ll bring Alan Aragon, Well, Alan and I aren’t like that but.

[laughter]

0:51:31.3 Mike Vacanti: I would love to have Alan on here to be like, I agree with Mike, getting.

0:51:31.4 Jordan Syatt: He’ll come on.

0:51:31.5 Mike Vacanti: I know he’ll come on, he loves you…

[laughter]

0:51:39.6 Mike Vacanti: But having him on or I don’t know man I don’t know if this needs to get edited in some way, I’m really feeling it.

0:51:41.1 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s great.

0:51:41.7 Mike Vacanti: But he would agree with me that having one dose of protein of 150 grams at 9 o’clock at night with a 7:00 AM workout as your daily routine is less beneficial than having 40 grams of protein at 9:00 AM, 1:00 PM 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM, so much for rapid fire, what are we doing.

[laughter]

0:52:06.9 Jordan Syatt: We?

0:52:09.3 Mike Vacanti: Next question.

0:52:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Did Gary Vee influence your social media strategy.

0:52:16.3 Mike Vacanti: When I posted? Yes. He did not influence the one that just doesn’t post for six years, that wasn’t his doing.

0:52:21.3 Jordan Syatt: Has it been six years?

0:52:21.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, no, since I was regularly making content, yeah probably 2018.

0:52:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Wow, man, that’s crazy 2018 was six years ago.

0:52:28.2 Mike Vacanti: Did he influence your social media strategy?

0:52:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, for sure, damn that Amazon Prime driver is whipping around a cul-de-sac. Yeah of course, of course.

0:52:41.2 Mike Vacanti: For anyone on audio over the last 10 minutes, Jordan has looked out of his window in a concerned fashion about six times in the last 10 minutes.

0:52:48.6 Jordan Syatt: I always forget that people are watching on YouTube, so when you just said for anyone on audio, I didn’t even realize that people were watching me look out the window just for the last 10 minutes, there was someone who parked in a blue car right outside my house, I was like, “what the fuck?” Like, I always get on high alert. I’m like who is that?

0:53:07.1 Mike Vacanti: I know, oh, I know you get on high alert.

[laughter]

0:53:08.8 Jordan Syatt: And they’re coming up to my door, I don’t know. I don’t like it when these unmarked cars start coming up to my door and like ’cause it’s different now with people delivering stuff, it’s not always in a delivery vehicle. People just like bring shit in their own car, I’m like, what are you doing? But, yeah, the only reason I posted three times a day every day was because Gary told me to do that when you and I were both with him in Florida but I will say now it’s different, it’s a different strategy than what he said then, like what worked then isn’t what works now, it’s actually, it’s a very different social media world now in terms of, it was number… Your number of followers mattered way more back then, how many followers you had essentially dictated how many people saw your content.

0:54:00.7 Jordan Syatt: And now your number of followers plays a much smaller role in how many people see your content, now it’s much more about how good is actually, I shouldn’t say good, I don’t think good is the right word. How, captivating, I would say how captivating is your content now is what is the largest driver of how many people will see your content. Each individual piece, it puts way more value on each individual piece of content as a standalone piece of content. Whereas before it was how many followers do you have? Which is like, I personally like the old way better.

[laughter]

0:54:49.6 Jordan Syatt: But, yeah, it’s very different. And I would imagine now Gary probably has changed the perspective of instead of posting three times a day every day, it’s much more about spending more time on one individual piece of content. But, yeah I realistically, in the same way that Alan Aragon, Martin Berkhan and Lyle McDonald, I think in the same way they’ve influenced basically everyone in the science-based fitness world without even people who don’t even realize they’ve been influenced by them, I would imagine most people, if not all people posting on social media regularly have been influenced by Gary, even if they haven’t realized they’ve been influenced by by Gary.

0:55:32.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s a bigger compliment to Gary than I think maybe anyone listening realizes because Lyle, Martin and Alan, you could borderline say created.

0:55:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:55:47.9 Mike Vacanti: The evidence-based, especially around nutrition.

0:55:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:55:50.8 Mike Vacanti: The evidence-based fitness space.

0:55:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct, yeah.

0:55:54.2 Mike Vacanti: Alright, last rapid fire.

0:55:55.4 Jordan Syatt: Is it okay to lift heavy on the first set and then lighter?

0:55:57.8 Mike Vacanti: Jordan did that with 315 and thankfully didn’t blow his back out.

[laughter]

0:56:09.0 Mike Vacanti: It depends, but no.

0:56:09.5 Jordan Syatt: You love this, you love RPT.

0:56:11.6 Mike Vacanti: So I don’t think what they’re describing is RPT because if you’re talking about the actual first set of an exercise, no it’s not okay because you need…

0:56:22.7 Jordan Syatt: No work sets, just work sets.

0:56:22.8 Mike Vacanti: Did it say work sets?

0:56:24.5 Jordan Syatt: No, it didn’t say work sets, it just said first set.

0:56:28.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it… A reverse pyramid training strategy is definitely reasonable where you decrease the weight you’re using from working set to working set while simultaneously increasing the number of reps you’re doing from working set to working set to keep intensity high or to keep your RPE high on each of those sets. Yes, it’s absolutely a reasonable strategy assuming you are doing a proper warmup before, so at least a few lighter weight sets of that movement to get warm before that heavy set.

0:57:04.1 Jordan Syatt: Great, thank you everyone for listening, this was awesome. Make sure you leave…

0:57:09.3 Mike Vacanti: Great episode.

0:57:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Please, please leave a five star review iTunes, Spotify, like this on YouTube, subscribe to YouTube, subscribe to our podcast, get our notifications, if you’re a coach and you wanna build your business, you wanna help more people, you wanna be a better coach, you wanna help people improve their health, their fitness, improve their lives, you wanna improve your life, the life of your family, build a sustainable online coaching business, you can apply to join the online fitness business mentorship link is in the show notes. Have a wonderful, wonderful week. We’ll talk to you soon.

0:57:37.5 Mike Vacanti: See you next Tuesday.