Episode 197: Overrated & Underrated Strategies for Online Fitness Business, The Best Exercises to Fix Back Pain, & More…

0:00:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:13.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael? I took a drink of water at the wrong time. How’s it going? 

0:00:17.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m doing well. You were going for a walk in your neighborhood and you came across someone and they did not say hi to you. So you’re not batting a thousand any longer.

0:00:28.6 Jordan Syatt: What are you talking about? 

0:00:30.5 Mike Vacanti: Wow. You’ve already forgotten this story that you were so passionate about telling me just a mere few days ago.

0:00:37.4 Jordan Syatt: What happened? 

0:00:37.9 Mike Vacanti: You were walking, I believe you were with your, it might’ve been a full family walk. I don’t remember the exact details, but you came across…

0:00:43.2 Jordan Syatt: No, no. I wasn’t calling you on a family… It must have just been me and Curtis.

0:00:47.1 Mike Vacanti: No, you called me after to tell me this story.

0:00:48.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. Okay.

0:00:50.2 Mike Vacanti: And you said that you encountered someone, a female, and you couldn’t get her to say hello to you.

0:00:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Are you making this up? 

0:01:00.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m not making this up, because she may or may not have been a female human.

0:01:06.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh. Oh my gosh. Oh my God. Dude, this is a crazy story.

0:01:15.9 Mike Vacanti: I know.

0:01:16.7 Jordan Syatt: This is a crazy story. Should I tell it? 

0:01:19.7 Mike Vacanti: Of course. That’s why we’re podding about it.

0:01:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, man. Okay. All right. I was so confused. And now I’m still confused by what happened, but, okay. So I’m out on a family walk, I’m on a walk with my wife and my two daughters and my dog, and we live in this, it’s a community. There’s probably like, I don’t know, 50 homes in this community. But it’s like a, it’s not a gated community. It’s just like a subdivision. And we live on the very end there. We’re in a cul-de-sac, and the whole subdivision is like a mile. Anyway, we’re walking around, we’re doing a loop in a different cul-de-sac, and all of a sudden we see this young girl start walking towards us, towards one of the houses that we’re by. And very quickly I realized she’s got a mask on, and it’s a mask of a cat.

0:02:16.6 Jordan Syatt: And it’s like, it’s a nice mask. It’s like a, it’s a nice mask. Like this isn’t like a cheap plastic one. Like this is a nice mask, but I don’t really pay attention to that at the time. I’m just like, oh, it’s a cat mask. And then I also notice after a few moments that she has a tail coming out of her pants and like over her butt, and it’s like a bushy cat tail. And keep in mind, it’s midway through October and there’s a lot of Halloween decorations in this area. I never experienced this in the Northeast ever, but Texas apparently takes Halloween really seriously. Like, it’s really crazy. Like a lot of our neighbors have intense Halloween decorations up from the beginning of October.

0:03:05.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think it’s, just to interject, I don’t think it’s a regional issue. I think it’s a time issue because I noticed it in the Northeast. I noticed it here in the Midwest.

0:03:13.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay.

0:03:14.4 Mike Vacanti: Now, I never noticed it back when we were growing up to this level, but yeah…

0:03:18.1 Jordan Syatt: Me either.

0:03:18.2 Mike Vacanti: People would just deck out their whole houses and lawns and everything.

0:03:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Insane, insane amounts of decorations. Like where do you store all of this? Anyway, so initially I’m thinking, oh, like Halloween, must have been a costume day at school or something, even though it’s weird, it’s like two weeks before Halloween. Anyway, I try saying like, hey, how are you? Just to be nice and kind and in passing. And as soon as we verbally recognized that she’s there, my wife and I are like, hey, how are you? Good afternoon. And she’s probably, I don’t know, like freshman in high school, something like that. Or late middle school, like between 13 and 15. She immediately [chuckle] starts like pouncing like a cat. So she was walking upright, and as soon as we recognized her, she starts pouncing like a cat.

0:04:20.5 Mike Vacanti: Like on all fours or just on her…

0:04:22.4 Jordan Syatt: On all fours.

0:04:23.3 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:04:24.1 Jordan Syatt: And then after like 20 yards of pouncing, which was impressive, and she was pretty light on her hands and feet, but like, she starts rolling in the ground. Like, I don’t know if cats do that, but she was rolling all over the ground. And then that was it. And then we kept walking away and we see her go up to this house and she knocks on the door and what appears to be her friend opens the door and her friend is looking at her like, like gives her a weird look. And then the friend looks inside to her parents like, I don’t know if I should let you in or not.

[laughter]

0:04:58.8 Jordan Syatt: And then the parents come to the door and that’s when we turned the corner. That’s the last thing we saw. And I realized that I think this is what is called a furry nowadays, where people are now identifying themselves as animals. And I looked into it and it gets pretty wild some of the stuff I’ve seen.

0:05:20.8 Mike Vacanti: You might know more given your recent research. My understanding based on an episode of Entourage circa like 2007, is that furries wear full-on, like a mascot style costume.

0:05:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Wait, this has been going on since 2007? 

0:05:34.0 Mike Vacanti: No, no, not this, but the furries I believe have. But this I think is just someone who identifies as a cat is what I would imagine.

0:05:43.9 Jordan Syatt: What’s going on, dude? 

0:05:45.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m not sure, man. But if it’s happening even in Texas, I’m not sure.

0:05:51.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’ve just like, I’ve seen that there have been big debates in school systems in terms of, let’s put litter boxes in the bathrooms for these animals. And I’m like, what!? 

0:06:03.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:06:06.6 Jordan Syatt: What!?

0:06:06.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:06:07.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s crazy.

0:06:08.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:06:08.6 Jordan Syatt: Could you imagine walking into a public bathroom and seeing a human shitting in a litter box? 

[laughter]

0:06:14.8 Mike Vacanti: Uh, it sounds…

0:06:15.1 Jordan Syatt: Could you imagine you walk into the bathroom and you see a human shitting in a litter box in a public… Like, why would we subject our kids to that? We shouldn’t subject anybody to that.

0:06:22.7 Mike Vacanti: No, of course not. It’s absolutely insane. I would imagine it’s a substantial minority of schools that do host these things or debate these things. But the fact that you encountered this cat person in real life is fascinating, to say the least.

0:06:38.1 Jordan Syatt: It was very, it just opened up Pandora’s box of let me go down this rabbit hole and see what’s going on here. It was pretty crazy. It was pretty crazy.

0:06:45.4 Mike Vacanti: Did she meow at you or she didn’t make any…

0:06:47.5 Jordan Syatt: Mm-mm.

0:06:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Oh, she did meow.

0:06:49.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, there was some meows.

0:06:49.8 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:06:50.4 Jordan Syatt: There was some meows, but it was like, you know, I have no problem if kids wear costumes to school as long as it’s not affecting their learning or other kids’ learning, that’s fine. But I do think it can, the extreme end of it is pretty wild. [laughter] It’s pretty crazy.

0:07:11.6 Mike Vacanti: Pretty bizarre. Pretty bizarre.

0:07:15.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:07:15.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:07:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I’m with you.

0:07:15.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:07:15.9 Jordan Syatt: I had never experienced it before. I was really blown away.

0:07:19.1 Mike Vacanti: Maybe you are still batting a thousand, actually, if she…

0:07:21.2 Jordan Syatt: I got the meow.

0:07:21.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, she meowed, so, well done.

0:07:24.0 Jordan Syatt: She did. Yeah.

0:07:25.8 Mike Vacanti: Well done.

0:07:26.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m batting a thousand, that’s why I was… ’cause I didn’t know what you’re talking about.

0:07:32.6 Mike Vacanti: [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. You’re like, someone didn’t say hi to me? Never. Impossible.

0:07:34.8 Jordan Syatt: Have you ever seen a furry or anything? 

0:07:40.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know.

0:07:42.1 Jordan Syatt: How far do they take it? Like, do they eat only cat food? 

0:07:44.8 Mike Vacanti: You’re asking as if I am the expert on this subject matter. I have no idea, dude.

0:07:49.4 Jordan Syatt: If they’re like, hey, I’m a cat. Well, okay, so do you eat… If you’re going in a litter box, like are you also eating cat food? 

[laughter]

0:08:00.1 Jordan Syatt: Are you gonna get a license when you’re 16? Like how far do they take it, you know? 

0:08:04.6 Mike Vacanti: Jordan, I think that, I think that you and I and any reasonable person sitting here listening know that humans can’t be cats and…

0:08:14.6 Jordan Syatt: Whoa, you’re a bigot.

0:08:17.0 Mike Vacanti: The fact that it’s even.

0:08:19.9 Jordan Syatt: Whoa, I disavow…

[laughter]

0:08:20.8 Mike Vacanti: Pod’s over, didn’t even make it to 200 episodes. Why did… They’ve ended their friendship over a strong, contentious issue. Yeah, man, I don’t know. But there’s definitely a line where it’s like, okay, kids are goofing around and like to play practical jokes and…

0:08:41.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s fine.

0:08:43.5 Mike Vacanti: Right. Which has existed for all of human history and in the last five to 10 years, maybe few years more, but five to 10 years, I’d say, things have gotten really weird with that population and…

0:08:58.0 Jordan Syatt: The cat population? 

0:09:00.7 Mike Vacanti: In the West, at least, in America.

[laughter]

0:09:04.2 Mike Vacanti: No, no, that age group, that age group of both boys and girls, both seem to have more issues than previous generations for…

0:09:16.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I think social media is…

0:09:16.3 Mike Vacanti: For some reason.

0:09:16.7 Jordan Syatt: Really fucking us up.

0:09:19.2 Mike Vacanti: I think so too.

0:09:19.3 Jordan Syatt: Like it really is.

0:09:20.6 Mike Vacanti: I think so too.

0:09:20.7 Jordan Syatt: It really is.

0:09:23.0 Mike Vacanti: I think a lot of things, I mean, I think we could not only do a full episode on that, we could have a full podcast only about that, and we would never run out of things to talk about. But unfortunately, this is the how to become a personal trainer podcast. And so we’re gonna keep it moving.

0:09:36.0 Jordan Syatt: I put up a question box on the how to become a personal trainer Instagram the other day.

0:09:42.7 Mike Vacanti: I saw that you did that.

0:09:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Got some questions from there.

0:09:43.8 Mike Vacanti: Did we get some questions? 

0:09:45.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, we got some, I mean, we could always use more. So if someone’s listening to this and not following us on the @personaltrainerpodcast Instagram, is that what the handle is, @personaltrainerpodcast? 

0:09:54.2 Mike Vacanti: @personaltrainerpodcast.

0:09:56.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, got some good questions.

0:09:58.3 Mike Vacanti: Wanna fire up that question box? 

0:10:01.1 Jordan Syatt: Well, @jonseybones said “no questions at the moment, but I love you guys,” so thank you @jonseybones. We appreciate that a lot.

0:10:07.8 Mike Vacanti: Thank you. @jonseybones.

0:10:08.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay. @laurentrew, she said, “most underrated and overrated things to focus on running a PT business.” We’re gonna do online PT, I guess?

0:10:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:10:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Okay. Most underrated and overrated things. Okay. Do you have any initial thoughts? 

0:10:26.5 Mike Vacanti: Vanity metrics on social media has to be the most overrated because it’s what everyone cares about and there isn’t a direct correlation between follower count and likes and et cetera to actual business, to number of clients who you sign, to number of people who you help, to how much money you make, to how your business actually does.

0:10:49.3 Jordan Syatt: Yep.

0:10:50.7 Mike Vacanti: I would say on the underrated side, I still think helping people for free on a micro level and giving your time and energy, whether it’s in the comments or in the DMs, or jumping on phone calls, think about how many times you and I jumped on phone calls with random people who followed us to help work through issues or answer questions or give voice memos or do like, free Q&As, but helping people for free, not only through your content, which we all know, but also a layer below that, comments, DMs, phone calls, free consults, without any expectation of getting anything in return is massively underrated. With so many gurus spouting out, you need to, don’t undervalue yourself, you need to charge at least this much. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have any clients yet. Like, I found, and I still see those who are the most successful are the ones who are willing to absolutely grind to help as many people as possible for free for an extended amount of time, not just days or weeks, but months and years. Which lays a foundation of like, quote unquote, thousand true fans, of people who are gonna support your work forever because you’ve built those relationships early on by really caring about each of those people and really helping each of those people. That’s a very underrated way to build a successful business that’s gonna last the test of time.

0:12:25.5 Jordan Syatt: I love that. I’m gonna add onto that. I’m gonna break it down in a few different sections. I had the benefit of taking the second turn to think about it a little bit longer, so I’m gonna break it down. Like, we could have a social media section, we could have a nutrition coaching section, and we could have like a, a strength coaching section or, but basically I’ll say like, so from social media, 100% likes, likes and followers, number of followers, not your actual followers, but the number of followers that you display is the most overrated thing in the, that is like number one out of all the categories. Like that’s the number one most overrated thing. It’s like monopoly money. It’s like trying to pay with monopoly money when you go out to eat, it means essentially zero. And it’s crazy because that’s the vast majority of what people focus on, which is ironic also because coaches are like, stop paying so much attention to the scale, that number doesn’t really mean very much, dah, dah, dah, dah. And meanwhile all these coaches are paying attention to the number of followers, number of likes, and it means next to nothing. So, that’s most overrated. In terms of social media underrated, I would, again, agree with you in terms of…

0:13:40.9 Mike Vacanti: And by the way, that’s coming from someone who’s got nearly a million followers on Instagram.

0:13:45.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:13:47.1 Mike Vacanti: Is telling you that follower count is massively overrated, is the most overrated thing.

0:13:52.9 Jordan Syatt: You know what I would say though is it’s less about my personal business and more about like people we see in the mentorship who don’t have huge audiences, but they fucking crush it, like, they dominate. They have a couple thousand followers and they’re making an incredible living. I don’t wanna even want to throw out like the six figure, like, ’cause like the, the guru horseshit, they’re making an incredible living, able to support themselves and their family, able to give to charity, be comfortable and help people all over the world. Like, what else do you want? And that’s with a relatively small audience that they have a lot of depth with.

0:14:35.6 Mike Vacanti: And on the contrary, on the other side of that coin is you can have people who catch a heater and might have one massively viral video that leads to a hundred thousand followers overnight or more. Or it could be a three to six month window where something’s really working and they shoot up with hundreds of thousands of followers from basically nothing. And of course you’re gonna gain some clients through that process, but six months or 12 months down the road, they’re struggling and needing to sign on clients when they have hundreds of thousands of followers. Follower count is overrated.

0:15:05.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I would say in terms of underrated for social media, 100% agree. Depth… Literally this morning on my walk with Curtis, I was replying to DMs with voice memos, and people freak out, like, and I still do that. It’s one of those things like doing what you do early on, like doing what you do to succeed is what you should also do to continue to succeed. I think a lot of people forget, that’s still a huge portion of my day, is replying to DMs, whether it’s written or voice memo. I prefer voice memo, one, just candidly, it is easier than having to write out, but also it’s more personal. They can hear your voice, they know that it’s you. And I would say the other aspect of underrated is the amount of time that you put into the quality of your content. So many coaches, they have a to-do list, this is my, all right, I’ve gotta post on social media. Well, cool, I post it, and they post a shitty ass meme or like, whatever. They spend 15, 20 minutes making a post at most. And like, okay, cool. And they just treat it like checking off the box. If you treat your social media like checking off a box, that’s like your clients treating their workouts like checking off a box.

0:16:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Did they give it any intensity? Did they try and progressively overload? Did they actually give it a real effort? Imagine if every time your client goes into workout, like they get it in 15 to 20 minutes, they’re not sweating, they haven’t really lifted any challenging weights, they haven’t put any effort into it. If that’s how you’re treating your social media, then that’s the results you’re gonna get. And the same way, if your clients never progressively overload, then that’s the results they’re gonna get. So, same exact thing. I think that’s massively underrated for social media. In terms of coaching, I would say, I haven’t really thought about this much, but we’ll just do coaching as a whole, not strength training and nutrition. We’ll just do coaching as a whole. For coaching I would say what is overrated is doing everything you can to keep your client. And what is underrated is doing everything you can to help your client succeed. And I think a lot of times coaches fall in this trap of what can I do to keep this client on with me, rather than what can I do to help this client succeed with their goals? 

0:17:28.3 Jordan Syatt: And it’s a dichotomy. It’s a very difficult situation that coaches fall in because obviously they wanna help people, especially the coaches listening to this, but also they don’t wanna lose income. And so a client might present some form of difficulty and instead of doing what’s right for the client, they enable them or they just agree with them or they change whatever it is they need to do in order to fit the client’s demand, rather than providing the structure and the accountability and the high quality coaching that the client needs. And ironically, if you just give into the client’s demand, oftentimes it will lead to a shorter amount of time coaching that client and worse results. Whereas if you do what’s right, I found more often than not, they’ll stick with you, they’ll trust you more, and they’ll be a better long-term client. So it’s, I think overrated is giving in and just doing what the client says they want to do. And underrated is doing what is actually they need you to do.

0:18:25.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s so funny because I would have never thought of that one as an ISTJ. It like is, it’s foreign to me. It’s like not in my DNA to agree with something that I know is inherently wrong.

0:18:43.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s so funny.

0:18:43.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. But it makes total sense, if a coach is afraid, if they have a certain type of client who is more strong-willed and doing things the coach doesn’t want them doing, the fear of, okay, if I don’t go with this, then they might cancel. After you explaining it, it makes sense, but it’s still like interesting.

0:19:07.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s like not in your nature. What would you say from a coaching perspective, overrated, underrated? 

0:19:15.7 Mike Vacanti: You know, I have some ideas floating around. I don’t know if these are actually gonna be the most overrated or most underrated aspects of coaching. I have grown to think through experience that, like speed and frequency of communication to an extent, or maybe a better way to phrase that is individualized attention is very important. And something that I would actually say most coaches give, I mean, the coaches we work with in the mentorship give a ton of, especially when you’re getting started, something I’ve noticed with coaches who get past a certain point or a certain number of clients is they begin to withhold that further because you’re busy, you know, coaches get very focused on content. You have a lot of things going on. If you’re serving a lot of clients, there’s less individualized attention.

0:20:28.6 Mike Vacanti: I think continuing to maintain high communication frequency, continuing to do the small things, right, like keep a laundry list of notes about likes and dislikes of each client, when you’re designing programs really focus on not just the quote unquote, science side of program design, but quote unquote, the art side of program design. Meaning, really dislikes these two exercises, works out in a space or at a time when it’s so busy that they can’t be super setting X and Y things. Little things that you’ll pick up through communication with your client that you’re not gonna remember unless you’re making notes and really applying those to every single program you design. I mean, that’s just one tiny example, but anything related to hyper individualized attention is what leads, is one of the things that leads to a better coach-client relationship is gonna lead to better progress for the client, and as a result is gonna lead to better retention for you as the coach, which comes back to something we’ve talked about a lot, which is if you have a certain number of clients and you serve them very well, that’s a way better business strategy than having to constantly be working to get new clients.

0:21:46.5 Mike Vacanti: So that’s one thing that comes to mind. I also don’t know that I have the best beat on, you know, you mentioned nutrition coaching and strength training specifically, when I think of nutrition coaching, I think of such a wide range of, like there are definitely coaches out there who tell, have their clients on a six meal a day meal plan where they have to eat at certain times and have to eat specific foods. Like that’s definitely a thing, and that’s obviously very overrated. There are definitely coaches out there who tell clients they can’t eat specific foods, that they can only eat animal products, for example. But I’m thinking of overrated, underrated almost within our more narrow space of people who have an understanding of evidence-based…

0:22:31.9 Jordan Syatt: People who would actually be listening to this. Yeah.

0:22:33.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a good question.

0:22:38.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s a really good question. You want me to go to the next one? 

0:22:42.0 Mike Vacanti: I have one here that David said, someone left a comment on Spotify on our last episode when we told the story of me throwing my back out.

0:22:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah.

0:22:53.9 Mike Vacanti: Asking, what PT exercises did Mike do for his lower back? And so we can, you know, you’re rehabbing a herniated disc right now, bulging disc, and so I feel like we could both talk about things we’ve been doing. If that interests you.

0:23:14.9 Jordan Syatt: Bro, let’s do it. Look, what have you been doing? 

0:23:17.9 Mike Vacanti: All right, so I’m gonna give two caveats. One is the, I mean, ’cause it’s kind of like the, oh, your physique’s great. Like what exercises do you do and what do you eat? And it…

0:23:28.9 Jordan Syatt: I wanna look like you.

[laughter]

0:23:35.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. Back pain is such a complex topic. And there are so many different kinds of back pain that me saying, okay, these are the exercises that my PT gave me, and these are the ones that I did that have led to me feeling good might not help everyone. And the other caveat…

0:23:56.5 Jordan Syatt: So what you’re saying is these exercises are what everyone needs to do if they want to have a pain free back.

[laughter]

0:24:03.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. The other thing I’m gonna say is, there’s nothing crazy here. Like, people are gonna be like, oh, that’s it? Like, those are the movements that you’re doing? Like, seems very boring, very mundane, similar to how a lot of training programs to get stronger and build muscle are boring and mundane. But one of the reasons it’s been effective is since April I’ve done these every single day, twice a day for three months, and then once a day since. So it’s being consistent with something that makes much more of a difference than it being the fanciest program or the best program, which many of us know here. So the ones that, the movements that I’m doing every single day are a glute med stretch. So literally just laying on my back, crossing one leg over the other, grabbing my knee and doing like a 30-second hold.

0:24:56.9 Jordan Syatt: Just 30 seconds? 

0:25:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Just 30 seconds per leg.

0:25:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Static stretch? 

0:25:01.0 Mike Vacanti: Static stretch.

0:25:02.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:25:04.2 Mike Vacanti: The second, and by the way, we did probably, my physical therapist and I did probably 20 to 30 different movements over the course of six to eight sessions. And these are the five that I pulled out that felt good for me that I wanted to be doing every day.

0:25:23.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s good to know.

0:25:26.5 Mike Vacanti: So when I, right after I hurt my back, I could barely do a body weight lying clamshell. And so like literally, I mean, I could, but, you know, I had…

[laughter]

0:25:38.8 Jordan Syatt: “I could, like, I could’ve done it.”

[laughter]

0:25:40.3 Mike Vacanti: No, I was doing it, but…

0:25:42.6 Jordan Syatt: It was tough.

0:25:44.7 Mike Vacanti: Hip abduction basically. So we started body weight and then progressed to banded and then was like, oh, do you have a hip abduction machine available? I was like, yes, I do. So programming that once a week as like a two by 20 at the end of a workout and then moving it up further in the workout and dropping the reps down to 15, to 12, to 10, adding sets and really getting stronger at abduction, has been something that’s been really helpful.

0:26:07.0 Jordan Syatt: Are you maxing out the machine? 

0:26:09.7 Mike Vacanti: No, I’m not maxing out the machine yet. What am I at? 

0:26:11.6 Jordan Syatt: Not yet.

0:26:12.9 Mike Vacanti: I’ve kind of stopped focusing on progressing on that.

0:26:17.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting. Why? 

0:26:20.3 Mike Vacanti: Why? Because after a certain point with making strength gains, you have to sacrifice more than I think I’m willing to sacrifice in terms of recovery, in terms of eating, in terms…

0:26:34.0 Jordan Syatt: Energy. Yeah.

0:26:35.6 Mike Vacanti: In terms of like, oh, that was a really hard workout. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’m close to maxing out the machine, I think maybe three by 12 with 160 or 170 on that.

0:26:49.7 Jordan Syatt: Jeez. Okay. So you got a strong glute med. You don’t need to get stronger. You’ve got plenty of glute med strength.

0:26:55.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know what it says about me that I am humble bragging a bad girl exercise, but…

0:27:01.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it says you’ve been working hard at your bad girl.

[laughter]

0:27:03.2 Mike Vacanti: This sciatic flossing move. 

0:27:12.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah.

0:27:12.8 Mike Vacanti: This sciatic nerve flossing, which you can do either at the knee or the ankle as far as I know, but I’m doing them at the ankle, so I’m laying on my back, non-working side. My leg is just extended out on the floor, grabbing the back of my hamstring on the working leg, keeping my knee as straight as I can, and then taking my ankle through a full range of motion with a one second pause at the bottom and the top for 10 reps per side.

0:27:40.9 Jordan Syatt: Flexing and extending the ankle just up and down. Yeah.

0:27:43.4 Mike Vacanti: Yep, yep. Yeah. Flexing and extending. Thank you. That’s felt good. This TVA strengthening move where I’m just laying on my back, you know, get a little bit of that posterior pelvic tilt, right? Thinking about driving low back into the ground and thinking about pulling my abs into the ground. And from that position I’m just doing a legs only bicycle. So almost like a, what are those things called? What the heck are those things called? Where you got your arms and legs working at the same time.

0:28:21.2 Jordan Syatt: A bicycle crunch, but you’re just using your legs.

0:28:25.5 Mike Vacanti: No, but the one that, you know, you’re like here and you got his.

0:28:29.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, a dead bug. Dead bug.

0:28:30.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. A dead bug. A dead… Yeah. But my arms aren’t even going. We were doing that too. I was like, all right, this is, I like the easier version. It just feels good and I’m gonna be consistent and do it. And so my legs are going for 10 per with like a three to five second eccentric and really controlling it at the end of the range.

0:28:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Are you exhaling or anything? Or like, is there a strong exhale or does it really matter how you’re breathing? As long as you’re jus, trying to suck your abs in, get the TVA.

0:28:56.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s so sub maximal at this point that…

0:29:01.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, got it.

0:29:01.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t even pay attention to my breath on that move.

0:29:03.6 Jordan Syatt: Got it.

0:29:03.9 Mike Vacanti: But it’s literally… As much as anything, dude, I think it’s just a variety of stretches plus movements that are, like if I’m sitting here working at my computer and I’m starting to feel a little tight, I’m like, oh, it’s been an hour, maybe an hour and a half. I’m like, oh, I should do my five minute routine right now. It’s almost like it could be anything other than sitting in the same position, not moving. And then there’s a, just a half kneeling hip flexor stretch, you know, again, get those hips under me a little bit, lean my hip forward, squeeze my glute, and then maybe throw an arm over. Get a little extra stretch there.

0:29:50.9 Jordan Syatt: Nice. A little psoas work with that. Throwing that arm over? 

0:29:53.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:29:53.7 Jordan Syatt: Nice. Is that like a 30-second, one minute per side? 

0:29:58.3 Mike Vacanti: 30 to 45. It’s to the point where I don’t even remember and I’m just doing what…

0:30:01.7 Jordan Syatt: Do you put a pad under your knee? 

0:30:04.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t. I’m not a big…

0:30:05.6 Jordan Syatt: On the hard floor, just knee going into the hard floor? 

0:30:10.7 Mike Vacanti: In an effort not to become completely soft and just live the most comfortable life of all time in the suburbs, like, you know, air conditioned environment, pretty easy workday, yeah, you gotta, there’s no pads in my life. There’s no squat pad, there’s no knee pad.

0:30:27.7 Jordan Syatt: Got it. And just on a bench? It’s on just like a regular bench behind you? 

0:30:33.4 Mike Vacanti: No, no. It’s, he wants it more in the hip flexor, less quad, and so…

0:30:39.1 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Okay.

0:30:39.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s literally…

0:30:40.1 Jordan Syatt: So your foot is not elevated.

0:30:42.0 Mike Vacanti: Correct.

0:30:42.6 Jordan Syatt: Got it.

0:30:43.3 Mike Vacanti: And then we’ve added some other things like a hip flexor strengthening movement. I think I talked on here about how I found out through going to PT just how weak my hip adduction relative to my abduction is. And so I’ve thrown some of that good girl machine in and gotten stronger on that. Like, these things have all helped as well, but those are the core movements that I’ve done every single day that have helped have my back, my low back feeling the best it’s ever felt in my life.

0:31:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I love that. That’s amazing.

0:31:18.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m also gonna layer on top of that, that high frequency movement, getting lots of steps, like not having days where I’m just barely active at all. Continuing to strength train consistently. If I have times where I miss workouts, and that usually will happen with travel or when I’m busier, leads to my back feeling not as good. I really think that just sitting in a chair for six to eight hours at a time is one of the absolute worst things that you can do. I remember feeling that way when I worked an accounting job, was out on a client working 12 to 14 hour days, and I brought a, like a little coffee table in to set on top of my desk so that I could have a standing desk just because I didn’t have the luxury of moving around every 30 to 60 minutes without being afraid I was gonna get fired. But for anyone who has to be working a desk job, high frequency, standing up, even if it’s just for a minute at a time, high frequency, walking around for a minute or two every hour, I have found really helps. Actually the research supports that it really helps too with lower back pain.

0:32:29.6 Jordan Syatt: You know, it’s funny, the more I look into this and the more research comes out, it’s less about any specific individual posture and more about maintaining a certain posture for too long.

0:32:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

0:32:43.7 Jordan Syatt: So it’s less about like there being a bad posture and a good posture and more like, if you maintain one posture for an extended period of time, you’re probably gonna get achy and sore and not feel good, which is why you need to get up and move more frequently so that you can change your posture and get more movement in. And that’s probably gonna help you feel much better than trying to maintain, I mean, a, quote unquote, perfect posture. That’s just, and you’re gonna feel like shit doing that.

0:33:08.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s a great point, because so many people think that. It’s like, oh, I have pain, but I slouch when I’m at my computer. So if I could only sit up straight and have my shoulder blades pinned back and have perfect posture while I’m working…

0:33:19.7 Jordan Syatt: Good luck.

0:33:20.7 Mike Vacanti: Then I wouldn’t feel pain, which isn’t true.

0:33:23.2 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:33:25.1 Mike Vacanti: You can hold that, whatever perfect posture means, ’cause it’s subjective, you could hold that, quote unquote, perfect posture for an extended amount of time, you’re still not gonna feel great.

0:33:33.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah. You just gotta get up and move.

0:33:34.9 Mike Vacanti: Which is a testament to how knowledge work is, you know, it’s amazing in some ways because like I mentioned before, it’s easier, it’s more comfortable, it’s safer, right? You’re not gonna, a lot of jobs that we worked throughout all of our history were much more dangerous than sitting at a computer is in the short run. Like, you’re not gonna hurt yourself there, but there are definitely downsides to sitting all day and inactivity in general.

0:34:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. 100%. Good, man. I’m glad your back’s feeling so good. That’s amazing.

0:34:07.7 Mike Vacanti: Thank you, bro. Your back’s been feeling better.

0:34:10.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s feeling much better. It’s not 100%. It’s, I would say it’s like, in the mornings it’s like 80%, there’s like a little bit of stiffness there, but like the range, it’s funny, like the range is there. I’ve got, I can touch my palms to the floor, no problem. It’s just, it feels a little bit stiff, whereas by the time 10:00, 11:00 AM hits it feels 100%. It’s totally fine. I just gotta get moving a little bit. So for me, I had some PT and it was overall really good. It was really a lot of flexion and extension based work that we were working on. So there’s something called like a, I think it’s like a Pilates situp or a Pilates rollup where it’s like, instead of a standard situp, where often your spine is completely neutral, it’s actually like you’re in a situp position, but you actually slowly allow your lower back to start rounding. You go into a posterior pelvic tilt. You slowly lower yourself all the way down, and then once you reach the bottom position back flat against the ground, then you start, you drive your lower back into the ground and you slowly elevate yourself back up again, with that flexion and extension in the lower back.

0:35:27.3 Mike Vacanti: Like one vertebrae at a time? 

0:35:28.4 Jordan Syatt: One vertebrae at a time. Exactly. It’s like a cat-cow style situp.

0:35:34.6 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:35:35.6 Jordan Syatt: And while trying to do some TVA activation at the same time, trying to like, suck in the abs, which has been, it’s felt really good. It felt like my abs have gotten much stronger. I’ve also been doing sort of like a, it’s a Palloff press, but instead of doing the pressing in and out, I just constantly, I hold the cable out. I hold it and I basically, I just, I bring it, allow my arms to come all the way up overhead. If you’re watching on YouTube, you can see. I bring my arms up over my head and I actually get a little bit of extension in the spine, and then I bring it all the way back down and I like round forward at the bottom of it and I just go up and down, so it takes me through some really good spinal extension and flexion while still resisting that rotation to the side. And that’s been really nice.

0:36:22.7 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:36:23.9 Jordan Syatt: Honestly the one that has felt the best, and I do every day…

0:36:29.6 Mike Vacanti: Can I guess? 

0:36:29.7 Jordan Syatt: Every single day. I know you’re gonna get it right. What is it? 

0:36:31.0 Mike Vacanti: Your reverse hyper? 

0:36:35.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dude, it is the best. I go on. I do 20 reps. I just leave it loaded. 20 reps every day, I get up, boom, go. Amazing. Like, immediately.

0:36:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Let’s go, let’s go.

0:36:49.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s absolutely wild. Just getting a little bit more lubricated in between the joints. It is, it’s funny because in the advertisement for it, like for this specific one, it’s the Rogue, I forget, it’s the one that you can fold up. It’s the Scout, the Rogue Scout.

0:37:05.4 Mike Vacanti: Scout. And it was only like 300 bucks.

0:37:09.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s 300 bucks.

0:37:10.1 Mike Vacanti: Great deal.

0:37:11.6 Jordan Syatt: 300 bucks. It’s an… ’cause most other reverse hypers are huge and they’re like 1200 bucks or more. I couldn’t believe it’s 300 bucks. And in the advertisement, Louie is like, yeah, you can fold it and put it up against the wall, but like, you’re not gonna do that. You’re just gonna leave it out because it feels so good. And that’s exactly like, just leave it out. I just, it’s just always ready to go. So I wake up, I go out, boom. And sometimes I just do it in between sets. But once I do the first set, my back is great. Like I’m good. It’s really, that’s by far the best thing I have.

0:37:42.6 Mike Vacanti: And remind me, that feels better when you’re at the top of each rep or it feels better when you’re in like a…

0:37:49.8 Jordan Syatt: No. So at the very bottom of it…

0:37:51.3 Mike Vacanti: In a bigger stretch at the bottom? 

0:37:53.5 Jordan Syatt: At the very bottom of it is when I feel like the tension being released, like the pressure being released. And that for me is when it feels really, really good. The top is more of like the contraction, the strengthening side of it. That’s the more difficult part of it. That’s where I’m straining more. But they’re both equally important. I think that both the flexion and the extension for the strengthening and the actual creating more space in between the joints and the traction part of it, but oh my gosh, dude, it’s one of my greatest investments in my home gym.

0:38:26.2 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. More than your preacher curl machine? [laughter]

0:38:28.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude. Yeah. I’m looking to sell that. If you wanna buy that…

[laughter]

0:38:34.8 Mike Vacanti: Me or anyone in the audience, if you want a preacher curl.

0:38:37.7 Jordan Syatt: I keep looking at it when I’m in the gym and I be like, ah, man, there’s just so many other things I could use that space for. Like I just, I don’t need it.

0:38:44.6 Mike Vacanti: You’re gonna have more space though in the new house.

0:38:46.1 Jordan Syatt: I will have more space and, I don’t know, me and my daughters…

0:38:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude when I come Visit, I’m gonna use it.

0:38:49.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re gonna use it. And my daughters, when they get older when trying to develop that bicep strength for a good choke, like they’ll use it and stuff. So, yeah.

0:39:00.5 Mike Vacanti: Do you know what actually, I have very little fear in terms of working out…

0:39:05.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I know.

0:39:05.5 Mike Vacanti: At this point…

0:39:06.2 Jordan Syatt: You have very little fear about anything.

0:39:07.4 Mike Vacanti: In life. Do you know what I actually have fear about? 

0:39:10.4 Jordan Syatt: Nothing. You fear literally nothing.

0:39:12.2 Mike Vacanti: No. I strive for that, but I fear heavy preacher curls.

0:39:18.5 Jordan Syatt: Heavy… Why? Like tearing your biceps? 

0:39:21.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:39:21.4 Jordan Syatt: Really? 

0:39:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’ve seen enough videos and it’s…

0:39:24.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s when you know you’re almost 40.

[laughter]

0:39:27.9 Mike Vacanti: No, I think I’ve always feared them though.

0:39:30.6 Jordan Syatt: Really? 

0:39:31.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s a movement that I’ve never been comfortable doing with a high RPE, and it’s a movement I’ve never been comfortable doing for like, anything less than 12 to 15. I prefer 15 to 20. Yeah. It’s, that giant stretch is really uncomfortable.

0:39:46.3 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.

0:39:49.2 Mike Vacanti: Almost like something’s a little…

0:39:52.0 Jordan Syatt: About to go.

0:39:52.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

0:39:52.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That makes sense. I think I’m just too ignorant. I’ve literally never worried about that once.

0:40:00.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s good.

0:40:00.9 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s just ignorance. It’s like, yeah. Just, I’ve never…

0:40:03.5 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think that’s…

0:40:03.6 Jordan Syatt: Again, I also never like super heavy loaded it to be fair. I’ve never been like, let’s do like a set of six super heavy of that.

0:40:11.4 Mike Vacanti: With, and not just doing like the top…

0:40:16.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:40:16.6 Mike Vacanti: Two thirds of the range, but really getting that stretch at the bottom of each rep.

0:40:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Or like eccentric overload, like slowly.

0:40:21.3 Mike Vacanti: No way.

0:40:24.7 Jordan Syatt: No, I’ve never done that. [laughter]

0:40:25.9 Mike Vacanti: I saw one where a guy blew ’em both out.

0:40:28.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s disgusting. That’s absolutely gross. Ugh.

0:40:31.6 Mike Vacanti: I know.

0:40:32.1 Jordan Syatt: That sucks.

0:40:33.0 Mike Vacanti: But your reverse hyper…

0:40:33.5 Jordan Syatt: What do you do, you immediately rip your bicep off the bone and then like what do you do? 

0:40:38.8 Mike Vacanti: You have someone drive you to the doctor. I don’t know.

0:40:41.9 Jordan Syatt: You look like Ricky Bobby. Like, “what do I do with my hands?” [laughter]

0:40:49.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Literally.

0:40:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh man. So the reverse hyper and then, oh, just cat-cows in general. I’ve been doing a lot of, like really super slow, segmented, like cat-cows. That’s been feeling really, really good. I also have been doing band resistant cat-cows. So I’ll put a band around my back and then I wrap it around and then I hold it out in front of me. So I have, my back is actually, has some resistance as I go through it. It’s felt…

0:41:16.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, interesting.

0:41:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Super good. I really like that a lot.

0:41:20.3 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.

0:41:20.7 Jordan Syatt: It makes me feel my abs a lot while I’m doing it. Big fan.

0:41:25.4 Mike Vacanti: Where exactly is the band on your back? 

0:41:27.4 Jordan Syatt: Just above the hip bone. Like just above the hip.

0:41:30.1 Mike Vacanti: Oh, hands and just above your hips. Interesting.

0:41:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. It’s just above the pelvis. So I really feel it as I’m especially going through my lumbar flexion and extension.

0:41:42.9 Mike Vacanti: Nice.

0:41:44.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Really like that one a lot. What else? That’s pretty much it, man. So, but yeah, those are pretty much the main ones. And then I’ve been adding in, like I told you the other day off the podcast, I’ve been adding more plyometrics in to my workouts, just once or twice a week, just a few plyometric moves. And it started because I wanted to be able to jump up from my knees with my daughter on my shoulders. And I used to be able to do that with 95 pounds. And then she was on my shoulders a few months ago and she was like, jump, jump up. And I was like, oh, shoot. Like I don’t feel comfortable I can do this right now without you, like face planning on the ground. So now I’ve worked up, I can do it with like five reps, 35 pounds no problem. So I’m gonna do it with her soon. But like, I started doing that and I was like, man, I need to get in plyos more. Like, they just feel good. They’re fun, they’re important. I read a statistic along the lines of like, 95% of people don’t sprint past the age of 30. And I was like, oh man, I gotta get some plyos in there.

0:42:44.3 Mike Vacanti: Wow. Not specifically for helping improve your back pain, but just…

0:42:49.5 Jordan Syatt: No, completely unrelated. That is a complete different discussion.

0:42:52.8 Mike Vacanti: Just, for the 1% of people who might have been like, “oh, okay. And add in plyos…”.

0:42:56.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, sorry… I just shifted… Yeah.

0:43:00.9 Mike Vacanti: No.

0:43:01.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s probably the exact opposite of what I should be doing for my back pain.

0:43:03.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, no, if your back’s nearly 100% by 10:00, 11:00 AM every day and you’re not an idiot, right, you’re easing your way into plyos.

0:43:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Correct. I’m not doing like weighted drop jumps or anything like that. No. Yeah.

0:43:17.2 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I had an epiphany about one of the differences between you and I, which is in terms of trying new things and like being excited about trying different things, you do it way more with training and I do it more with nutrition.

0:43:36.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s exactly right actually, I hadn’t thought about that.

0:43:39.9 Mike Vacanti: Like you’ll, from boxing to jiu-jitsu to power lifting to kettlebells, you had a little bodybuilding stint in there for like eight months.

0:43:50.7 Jordan Syatt: I hated it. Yeah, yeah.

0:43:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But you tried it.

0:43:52.3 Jordan Syatt: I tried. Yeah.

0:43:53.8 Mike Vacanti: And you went all in with, all of the mobility stuff. All of the loaded stretching, splits.

0:43:58.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s so true.

0:44:01.8 Mike Vacanti: You know, Indian clubs, like you really, and this is complimentary, is, like you’re open to and interested in trying different things in terms of exercise.

0:44:12.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s true. Yeah. And with you, you’re like, all right, I’m gonna have some kimchi, get some miso soup in there.

0:44:17.9 Mike Vacanti: No, no. Those are…

0:44:19.2 Jordan Syatt: Make sure I have my almonds.

0:44:21.9 Mike Vacanti: That’s hilarious. Because you like kimchi and miso soup. I…

0:44:24.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I know. But you tried it, didn’t you try it for a bit? Sauerkraut.

0:44:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. No, when I say some of the things, yeah. So, a heavy focus on gut health and pre and probiotics for a period of time was something that I tried. Just an interest in like, oh, like reading about health benefits and like, like mental health benefits of extended fasts. And I tried a 72 hour fast, which was brutal. Like, being open to trying different things. Carb backloading. I remember I did a…

0:44:52.1 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] Carb backloading.

0:44:52.9 Mike Vacanti: So many things, and under the…

0:44:54.5 Jordan Syatt: Where did that guy go? 

0:44:55.3 Mike Vacanti: They’re under the principles that calories matter most. I want my macronutrients in a certain place. Like there are certain laws that can’t be broken. But then playing with nutrition within their food choice meal timing. I remember reading some research around meal timing and sleep quality, which are two things I’m interested in. And I would stop eating at like 6:30 or seven o’clock at night when I was going to bed at 9, 10 o’clock.

0:45:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I remember this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:45:23.0 Mike Vacanti: And focused on how it would impact my sleep and it actually…

0:45:23.1 Jordan Syatt: Do you still do that? 

0:45:26.3 Mike Vacanti: No, because I’m a glutton and I just like, I like snacking at night. But I probably should because something that it led to was me requiring less sleep. So I had a higher sleep quality and I could get away with less sleep when I was doing that. Yeah, focusing on fiber, focusing on different nutrition strategies. Fasting, high frequency, high meal frequency.

0:45:49.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s so true. I hadn’t thought of that. That’s exactly, that’s a really good call.

0:45:52.3 Mike Vacanti: Where as you’re more consistent. You have your staples that you like. And you kind of just are more consistent there. And me on the training side, it’s like I have a couple training methodologies that I really like and that work well for me. My exercise selection isn’t crazy. I’m not like going out there and doing different things.

0:46:11.1 Jordan Syatt: You know what’s interesting for me though in this discussion is that nutrition, at this point, it’s, I don’t love, like, I’m not like, well I’m, I feel like you still love training. Like you, like when you go to lift, you love it. When I go to train, whatever it is I’m doing at this point in time, I love it. I feel like you’re more passionate about nutrition and understanding how the food makes you feel and like you actually really enjoy that. Whereas for me with nutrition, I’m more just like, whatever. Like I’m just…

0:46:49.4 Mike Vacanti: Dude…

0:46:49.4 Jordan Syatt: I wanna eat this and just, I’m fucking whatever. It’s far, like, I’m far less passionate about that than you are.

0:46:54.8 Mike Vacanti: I have a thesis on that too.

0:46:56.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay. What is it? 

0:46:58.7 Mike Vacanti: I wonder if you lost passion by going to war in the DMs for five years.

0:47:05.9 Jordan Syatt: 100%

0:47:06.6 Mike Vacanti: Every single day about nutrition stuff. And you’re like, I cannot care about nutrition for another second in my life.

0:47:12.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that’s it.

0:47:12.3 Mike Vacanti: You gave everything you had.

0:47:14.1 Jordan Syatt: I think you’re right. I think I just, my passion was drained by all these idiots talking about the dumbest shit possible. Yeah, I think you’re right.

0:47:24.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. From that 2017 to 2021 window, I wasn’t battling anyone when it came to nutrition.

0:47:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Ugh. Such a healthier life.

0:47:32.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know.

0:47:34.9 Jordan Syatt: I do.

0:47:34.9 Mike Vacanti: Short term, yes. But no, because it’s…

0:47:37.0 Jordan Syatt: If we look at cortisol levels over… Like yours versus mine, I bet yours are much healthier. [laughter]

0:47:44.1 Mike Vacanti: You know what is actually an interesting discussion there, is if you are to weigh the pros and cons of too much comfort versus too much stress. Because I actually, I was gonna talk about this state. We’re kind of running out of time and maybe we will at another point in time, but on like a real level, I feel like my life is way too comfortable and I need to do something about it.

[laughter]

0:48:13.3 Mike Vacanti: Like this suburban life, my wife and I were out in New York for the last week. I was going into the city and coaching Gary and I was on the move. I was waking up at 4:45. Like I didn’t wanna get up, but I had to get up, like taking the train and crushing emails on the train, like moving around the city, on the go a lot more, around more people, like, and I felt so, it was harder, but I felt so much better. And the suburban cush, I just, you know what, I’m gonna make a ridiculous statement right here. I don’t know that human men, I don’t think that men are meant to live in the suburbs.

[laughter]

0:48:54.8 Mike Vacanti: I think maybe we’re supposed to be, you know, out in the woods, out hunting, out fighting battles, out… I don’t know. I don’t know what we’re supposed to be doing, but I don’t know if it’s the suburbs, and…

0:49:07.8 Jordan Syatt: Not waking up in a cushy bed. You gotta be sleeping on leaves and aware that an animal could eat you at any point in time.

0:49:11.5 Mike Vacanti: We’re being slightly funny with this, but there’s, you…

0:49:15.7 Jordan Syatt: But seriously.

0:49:15.8 Mike Vacanti: But you have a higher level of stress with two kids, two young kids plus…

0:49:23.7 Jordan Syatt: A dog.

[laughter]

0:49:25.8 Mike Vacanti: I guess I don’t even realize how much stress the dog… But the amount of…

0:49:29.7 Jordan Syatt: He’s the first thing that stresses me out in the morning.

0:49:29.8 Mike Vacanti: The amount of work that you’re doing, the amount of, you also have… You battle in the DMs about geopolitical issues that you’re passionate about. Like you have a lot of stress.

[laughter]

0:49:47.9 Mike Vacanti: Like your fear and anger and stress motivate you. Whereas I’ve let things get a little, I feel like I’m getting a little soft, I don’t know. I don’t know what I need to do. Just throwing that out there.

0:49:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude.

0:50:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Just a real raw moment of self-awareness that I’ve had over the last few days.

0:50:04.7 Jordan Syatt: So you enjoyed getting up early and being around people, and like…

0:50:09.1 Mike Vacanti: No, I hated it in the moment.

0:50:12.6 Jordan Syatt: In the moment? Okay.

0:50:12.7 Mike Vacanti: But then once I was up and moving and, you know, it’s like once you do the hard thing, you always feel good.

0:50:18.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:50:19.7 Mike Vacanti: The road to hell feels like heaven. The road to heaven feels like hell.

0:50:24.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s a good one. So at what point in the day did you start to be glad that you were up at like, was it once you had finished coaching Gary and like…

0:50:35.2 Mike Vacanti: No, before then.

0:50:35.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay.

0:50:37.2 Mike Vacanti: Once I’m sipping my coffee on the train and people are sleeping because it’s 5:15, but I’m hammering emails and I’m like, oh, this is, it was my life for many years and now my life’s a little slower paced, which, and there’s a lot of positives because I think family’s the most important thing in life, and like being able to be around my family and be in Minnesota is a really good thing, but I definitely need to find a way to balance it with, I don’t know if it’s getting back into combat sports. Like there are things that I need to do to waken something within me back up.

[laughter]

0:51:17.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh man. Okay.

0:51:21.7 Mike Vacanti: If I wasn’t so terrified of steroids and like the psychological addiction, that might be it. It’s like, okay.

0:51:25.5 Jordan Syatt: Are you more scared of the psychological addiction or the physiological potential negative side effects? 

0:51:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Psychological addiction. 100%

0:51:33.7 Jordan Syatt: Really? More than… Okay.

0:51:35.6 Mike Vacanti: What physiological downsides to just a little one 50 mgs of tests in the right butt cheek once a week? Like, oh, the physiological effects of being too strong and more vascular and like taking my already solid physique to another level. Terrible. Sounds awful. No, it’s…

[laughter]

0:51:55.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’ve got good blood pressure and all that. Yeah.

0:51:58.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s hedonic adaptation. It’s six months into 12 months into using, that’s the new normal. And then if I ever came off then it’s like, oh, this like, that’s it.

0:52:07.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And like we’ve been talking about last few days where it’s like people who get on, in their mind they actually think that it’s them that’s made all this progress and that the drugs haven’t helped at all. And so it’s like, but they just continue with the drugs. Like these people who pretend that they’re not actually on online, of which you and I both know many people who pretend like they’re not actually taking anything, and they actually believe that the results they’re getting is because of their work and not the steroids that they’re injecting into their ass. [laughter]

0:52:38.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s the classic Arnold Schwarzenegger, when he was literally Mr. Olympia said that… Was asked how much steroids matter, and he said he compared them to a good suntan. Like having a good tan has the same effect on your aesthetics and your physique as steroids.

[laughter]

0:53:00.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s wild. Yeah.

0:53:01.3 Mike Vacanti: What a Wild thing to say. We got a mentorship Q&A in five minutes here, so we gotta wrap up. Just a quick announcement. Black Friday sale is coming in a few weeks. $500 off. We decided to join the Fitness Business Mentorship, we’ll continue to keep you updated on that.

0:53:16.8 Jordan Syatt: Did we decide that or did you unilaterally decide that? 

0:53:19.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s we.

0:53:19.9 Jordan Syatt: I think it was a unilateral decision.

0:53:24.3 Mike Vacanti: We.

[laughter]

0:53:25.4 Jordan Syatt: We decided everyone $500 off. 500. That’s crazy. I was gonna say 250. Mike said 500. It’s gonna be $500 off. Don’t miss out on this one.

0:53:33.8 Mike Vacanti: We love you all. We’ll see you next week. Goodbye.