Episode 205: TikTok is ACTUALLY Getting BANNED, The Drone Crisis, Using AI for Your Business, Wild Speculations, and More…

0:00:11.5 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.7 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:14.0 Mike Vacanti: Bro, you’re about to move into your new house. How does it feel?

0:00:19.2 Jordan Syatt: Well, in like eight weeks, and that’s assuming everything goes as planned. But yeah.

0:00:22.7 Mike Vacanti: True.

0:00:23.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m excited. I’m very excited. I didn’t think that you were gonna start off a conversation with that. There was no indication that that’s what you were gonna begin this conversation with whatsoever.

0:00:30.8 Mike Vacanti: It just came to me. It came to me. Well, I got the… You FaceTimed me the other day when you were visiting the house, and it really has come together since I last saw it.

0:00:40.5 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t even know if you’ve… I thought that was the first time you’d seen it.

0:00:46.7 Mike Vacanti: No, I’ve seen rooms and I’ve seen various things that you’ve sent me.

0:00:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, got it. Yeah. Yeah, I’m just excited for the gym and the yard. The gym and the yard.

0:00:54.7 Mike Vacanti: And the podcast studio.

0:00:54.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, the podcast studio as well. But the gym and the yard, I’m really excited for. You’re gonna do a business trip? You’re gonna come down?

0:01:03.7 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. Do some in-person podcasts. Break in the studio.

0:01:09.5 Jordan Syatt: When was the last time I saw you in person? I think it was like a year-and-a-half ago.

0:01:12.4 Mike Vacanti: No, Mind Pump.

0:01:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I mean, with the last time you came to Texas, was like a year-and-a-half ago, probably.

0:01:18.9 Mike Vacanti: When’s the last time you came to Minnesota, Jord?

0:01:23.3 Jordan Syatt: Man, that must have been 2017. I think so.

0:01:26.8 Mike Vacanti: 2018, right? Patriots…

0:01:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, is that the year that it was? Yeah, 2018. Got it.

0:01:33.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. February 2018.

0:01:35.5 Jordan Syatt: It was cold.

0:01:35.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But you’re excited for the new spot.

0:01:38.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, of course. Of course. We’re probably gonna have to sell it soon after moving in ’cause we can’t afford the mortgage payments.

0:01:49.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s not true.

0:01:49.7 Jordan Syatt: That’ll be fun. We’ll get one month out of it and then we’ll be like, all right, put it on the market.

0:01:56.5 Mike Vacanti: Jordan’s a funny guy. Do you have any words of wisdom for anyone thinking about building a house?

0:02:03.6 Jordan Syatt: In the wise words of Joe Biden, don’t. Just don’t. Do you know that clip where he says that?

0:02:12.9 Mike Vacanti: I do. I do.

0:02:16.4 Jordan Syatt: Don’t. Just don’t. I think he’s talking to Iran. [laughter]

0:02:22.2 Mike Vacanti: Because it took so long?

0:02:27.4 Jordan Syatt: On the YouTube. We got to get David to like clip in that clip.

0:02:31.6 Joe Biden: I have one word. Don’t. Don’t.

0:02:35.3 Jordan Syatt: But it’s a lot, dude. It’s so much. It’s a huge amount of work. And I’m very well aware. People are like, oh, what a privileged thing to say. I get it. I’m just saying, even if I had the same amount, I would rather just buy a house that someone else has already built than go through the process of building your own at this point. I don’t think I would ever go through the process, even if I had unlimited funds, even if I had $100 million, I don’t think I would do it again. I would never. I would just be like, yep, let’s just go to a house that’s already built.

0:03:11.0 Mike Vacanti: If you were to say like, hey, building a house was more difficult than I anticipated and for anyone who’s thinking about possibly doing this, here are a few tips or things that were difficult or whatever, that would come off as privileged?

0:03:30.2 Jordan Syatt: What would come off as privilege is when people would be like, uh, it’s like a first world problem, where it’s like you’re complaining about building your house. It’s like, no, I get it. It’s coming from a very blessed position, for sure. But it’s also like, regardless of the amount of privilege or how incredible it is, it’s still, I would say it’s not worth it before I even moved in there. And who knows, maybe two years after moving in there, I’ll be like, yeah, that was totally worth it because we were able to design it exactly the way we wanted it. That might change. But as of right now, it’s just, it’s insane.

0:04:03.7 Mike Vacanti: A lot of work and a lot of time.

0:04:04.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s insane. And I’m not even the one building it. It’s just being like, we’re just choosing. But yeah, it’s pretty crazy.

0:04:17.1 Mike Vacanti: Cool, man. All right. Well, next on the docket, aliens. What’s going on with these drones? These…

0:04:21.1 Jordan Syatt: Wow, you are… Oh, the drones. Got it, got it, got it.

0:04:29.0 Mike Vacanti: Drones in New Jersey/aliens. Do you have any hot takes?

0:04:32.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ve got, I mean, I’ve got a very simple take.

0:04:35.9 Mike Vacanti: Let’s hear it.

0:04:36.5 Jordan Syatt: Here’s the… And I actually post about this on my story the other day, ’cause people were asking me about it. It’s our own government. It’s not a foreign government. If it was a foreign entity, they would have shot them out of the sky. And if they knew who they were from, which they would have found out very quickly, there would have been repercussions. And there’s something going on that they don’t want people to panic about. That’s it. That’s what’s… I guarantee it. And I had a, I… ’cause I posted that and there were a couple of people who were like, What about the Chinese spy balloons? I was like, Yeah, they shot them down. There’s a… Law enforcement agencies who are not being told why these things are happening are being told not to follow the drones. Explicitly, they’re being told don’t follow them, don’t shoot them, just let them do their thing and just trust us, everything’s fine. We don’t know what they are, but just trust us, everything’s fine. It’s like, okay, so clearly, very high level government agencies are running operations. The common one that I’ve heard is that they are either trying to find a nuclear bomb, or they’re practicing. And they’re like, they’re running practice operations to see if they can find stuff.

0:06:02.0 Jordan Syatt: That that makes the most sense to me, is that either they are currently trying to find something that is a threat or they’re practicing trying to find things that are a threat. What do you think?

0:06:19.8 Mike Vacanti: I have no idea, to be honest. Do you know if they were moving in a way that looked like it defied physics as we know it? Or was that AI type… Like, I don’t even know what I saw on some of the reels that I saw.

0:06:37.2 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know what that would look like. Because I feel like drones do that anyway, drones can move in literally every direction and do everything in the air, like they can do anything in the air. It’s pretty crazy. There was one eyewitness who is saying that it was literally the size of a school bus, which is something that we’ve never heard before, in terms of drones being that big. We tend to think of something small. But realistically, I mean, drones are in terms of modern warfare and technology, like they’re, we’ve already seen it in action. We’ve already seen them in action. And especially this past year in the Middle East, drones have played a massive role in, from that perspective. And they’ve already, they’ve been around for a while in the military. And they work wonders in terms of locating people, tracking people. They have drones that are, that have heat sensors. So like, it’s if you’ve got a drone tracking you, good luck trying to get away from it. Like they, it can go basically anywhere and everywhere. It can travel unbelievably fast. And if they wanna find you, they’re gonna be able to find you. But never not to mention, they have so many different technical capabilities far beyond, far beyond whatever my knowledge is.

0:07:49.0 Jordan Syatt: But in terms of like modern warfare, I would imagine this is a test. Because the military needs to be able to test these things, probably in urban environments, and probably in very public areas. And the only way they can do that is they actually test it. So they’re probably literally running these test operations. And someone higher up is just saying, don’t tell them what it is, don’t tell them anything, but just let them know it’s fine. Like, that’s, they’re probably running test operations in case of a God forbid scenario, or so they can bring these drones overseas and they can run these operations overseas in urban environments and in densely populated areas and have experience with it.

0:08:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Let me ask you another question. If there were to be a “alien invasion,” do you think it’s more likely that A, it’s actually an alien invasion, or B, it’s a PSYOP run by our own government?

0:08:51.4 Jordan Syatt: B.

0:08:54.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:08:54.3 Jordan Syatt: Without question.

0:08:55.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yep.

0:08:55.3 Jordan Syatt: I mean, just running the odds.

[laughter]

0:09:03.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s, I think that’s high on the list to look out for in the coming three to 10 years.

0:09:09.8 Jordan Syatt: The funny part is watching these government officials, whether it’s the White House press secretary, or head of the FBI, any of these people answer pointed questions about these things. Like you can tell they’re looking frustrated, because these are the spokesmen and women of these divisions, and they’re getting all the questions and you can see in their face and their body language, and the words and their tone that they’re like, I’m, I can’t say, and I’m not being given any answers either. But all I can say is that it’s okay and we don’t know who it is. [laughter] Which is really funny if you think about it, like, if this doesn’t show you that our… Our government will lie to us all the time. Constantly.

0:09:57.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:09:58.5 Jordan Syatt: And what do you think? Do you have any thoughts, anything that you wanna contribute?

0:10:03.2 Mike Vacanti: No, I actually don’t know anything about it, which is why I asked your opinion, other than if and when the aliens “come,” it’s a PSYOP.

0:10:12.5 Jordan Syatt: Did you hear a TikTok is more or less officially being banned on January 19th?

0:10:17.2 Mike Vacanti: No, I didn’t.

0:10:18.6 Jordan Syatt: I just heard about it today. And then as soon as I heard about it, I started seeing it everywhere. It’s been many years coming. But ’cause they’ve been talking about it, talking about it, talking about it, talking about it, but it looks like unless, I don’t know if it’s the Supreme Court, I don’t know which court, but some court would have to strike it down in order for it to not happen. But it looks like if it’s officially gonna be banned on January 19th.

0:10:43.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s been so long since I looked into it and I don’t know the official reasons, reasons/ reasons. I mean, from a business owner perspective, this is a great incentive to always diversify where your audience is, right? Different social media platforms, email, website, and not putting all your eggs in one basket, which is something that all the listeners have heard us talk about for years now.

0:11:15.4 Jordan Syatt: They’ve heard us talk about it, but there hasn’t really been a large scale thing. I guess COVID is one of them, but like there’ve been, we’ve said for years to not build your house on someone else’s lawn and to diversify because you never know what’s gonna happen. And this is the prime example of exactly what we’ve been talking about, where it’s like, when times are good, people just don’t imagine that something bad like this could ever happen, that oh no, everything’s fine, everything’s fine, everything’s fine, everything’s fine. They just don’t imagine it. And ’cause we don’t know what it is that’s gonna happen. We don’t know what or when or how or why, but this is the prime example. You’ve got to diversify. You’ve got to get your email list. You’ve got to, like, you have to. Don’t build your house and on someone else’s lawn and expect it to stay there forever. It’s just not gonna happen.

0:12:14.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah. An email list is the big one where you have control. If MailChimp shuts down, you move your list over to AWeber. If AWeber’s like… You have options there. There’s no taking your TikTok audience, every single follower…

0:12:25.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:12:26.8 Mike Vacanti: You have there and plopping them somewhere else and then having the ability to reach 40 to 60% of them on any given post like you can with an email.

0:12:36.4 Jordan Syatt: The Instagram algorithm is another example where it’s like they can choose how many of your followers are gonna see your posts. It’s like, you should have spent a long time getting them on your email list, so that even if they aren’t seeing your posts, you can still contact them and you can start doing that right now. It’s like, start doing it.

0:12:57.4 Mike Vacanti: How have your, speaking of algorithm and reach and Instagram, clearly over the last several years, most platforms have shifted from you’re getting content from people you know, to you’re getting content that you’re interested in, whether or not you know the person, like doom scrolling rolls or reels, I don’t know, 90% plus of the people who come up. How have your story views been affected over the last three to five years?

0:13:24.9 Jordan Syatt: I would say the peaks of them are higher than they’ve ever been, the peaks. So when they get to the highest, they’re the highest they’ve ever been, but that is very few and far between. So the peaks rarely ever get to a peak. The averages are probably about 20% lower. So the average is 20%. I will say before, I think the biggest thing is before, there was much better continuity story to story and I didn’t need to like let stories run out. Now there is a definitive benefit to letting your stories run out all the way and then posting something new and then you’ll get a bigger surge. Whereas before, that wasn’t a thing. Like I could just continually post, always have a story up and it would be fine. And my story views are still, thank God they’re still good. And I think they’re probably better than most, to be honest. ‘Cause I really try and have a… I never try and post the same type of stuff over and over and over again. I never want people to feel like I know exactly what he’s gonna be saying in his stories. I always wanna have there be some form of humor, some form of education, some form of something changing.

0:14:52.0 Jordan Syatt: So I think that’s one of the reasons why they do relatively well, but there is a definitive benefit to allowing them to run out before you start posting new stories, which is very interesting.

0:15:08.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, definitely.

0:15:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Why do you think the government would want to ban TikTok?

0:15:14.3 Mike Vacanti: Again, I don’t remember the reason, like there’s clearly a reason, right? Do you know the reason?

0:15:20.0 Jordan Syatt: Well, I know the reason they say, but I don’t believe them.

0:15:23.7 Mike Vacanti: I remember it having something to do with the fact that ByteDance who owns TikTok is like…

0:15:26.8 Jordan Syatt: China.

0:15:31.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Over 50% China.

0:15:33.5 Jordan Syatt: China.

0:15:36.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t…

0:15:38.4 Jordan Syatt: Very strongly believe that it’s China. Sorry, keep going.

0:15:41.8 Mike Vacanti: Chamath…

[laughter]

0:15:46.7 Mike Vacanti: Hey, what do you think of this? I’m just going to talk over you in a Trump accent. Chamath on the All In podcast talked about this. It had to have been at least a year ago in depth. I don’t have a good answer here, and we can speculate, but…

0:16:03.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, let’s speculate.

0:16:05.0 Mike Vacanti: Okay, you can speculate. I don’t know. In fact, I’m getting more and more comfortable in leaning into, I don’t know, in this era of everyone needs to have an opinion on everything all the time.

0:16:19.7 Jordan Syatt: No, you’ve got to have an opinion.

0:16:21.0 Mike Vacanti: I have no idea.

0:16:23.3 Jordan Syatt: Sometimes it’s just fun to make it up, and you’re like, I don’t know, maybe this is it.

0:16:27.4 Mike Vacanti: I agree when you’re sitting around the campfire, but…

0:16:27.8 Jordan Syatt: I do that with my daughter all the time. Why do you…

0:16:31.7 Mike Vacanti: Perfect.

0:16:34.7 Jordan Syatt: Where do you think they’re driving to? Where do you think they’re going? I don’t know. Let’s make it up. Maybe they’re going to work, or they’re going to the grocery store.

0:16:39.6 Mike Vacanti: Do carbs kill…

0:16:44.3 Jordan Syatt: Why do you think the government is banning TikTok?

0:16:45.5 Mike Vacanti: Do carbs kill you? I don’t know. Let’s make up an answer.

0:16:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Let’s make it up. Here’s my thoughts. To my knowledge, it’s because they say it’s because of China. I don’t believe that it’s because of China. I think that they are using that as an excuse. And if I would imagine, realistically, almost everything that our government does, and it… Doesn’t even necessarily our government, we could even break it down to the individual level, but almost everything our government does is about money in some way, shape, or form. And they say, oh yeah, they have all your information, and da-da-da-da. I’m like, they’ve had all your information. They’ve got everything. And I’m sure there are many other companies that we interact with and that they have our data from… I don’t think it’s about our data at all in any way, shape, or form. I would imagine that there are behind the scenes, there are big tech lobbyists and people who are like… I would imagine there are people in government who have a lot of money invested in other social media platforms and there’s something to be gained from taking that competition out of the US market.

0:18:05.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I think that’s very likely.

0:18:06.0 Jordan Syatt: Do you know how many millions and millions of people are on this platform? And If we take that platform away, then they’re gonna go on another platform, and then we’ll make way more money.

0:18:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Facebook, Instagram, YouTube all do better as a result. Yeah.

0:18:19.3 Jordan Syatt: A hundred percent. That, to me, makes the most sense. And I don’t know, but I’m making it up, and it makes sense to me.

0:18:29.4 Mike Vacanti: That makes sense. The other thing is, you’ll hear people say, oh, in China, TikTok gives them educational videos, engineering videos, all of these high quality videos to kids, whereas TikTok serves America more, I don’t know, dumbed down content. I actually find TikTok to be more educational/high quality than my reels or my shorts. When I see people be like, oh my gosh, TikTok is the absolute worst, but then they’ll scroll reels for two hours, they’re basically the same thing.

0:19:03.0 Jordan Syatt: Same thing. Exactly. Yeah. You’re doing the same thing.

0:19:07.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Speaking of which, do you find a difference in the type of content you get between platforms?

0:19:13.9 Jordan Syatt: Very different.

0:19:14.5 Mike Vacanti: How so?

0:19:20.2 Jordan Syatt: So the two platforms that I’m on are Instagram and YouTube. I don’t go on TikTok, but like Instagram, I’m trying to figure out like which type of content. You know what’s funny? Instagram will show me stuff that I’m not interested in. Like pretty frequently, Instagram will show me stuff that I’m not interested in. If you go, even on my explore feed, dude, I get fed stuff that is just without question, just because I’m a dude, like the almost pornography that will come onto my explore…

0:19:54.2 Mike Vacanti: On Instagram?

0:19:56.6 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Like, just, and I’ll go to my explore page. I’m like, what in the world is this doing on my explore page? Why is this here? It’s, there’s no reason. I don’t follow any of these people. I don’t follow any content like this. I never interact with any content like this. As soon as this content comes up, I immediately scroll by. It’s like, I would imagine they, like it’s content that’s doing really well on the platform and they’re pushing it to just, I don’t know. I’m not a woman, so maybe women get stuff like this, but I look at my wife’s and she doesn’t get anything like this. My wife’s is all stuff, like more things that she’s tends to be interested in. YouTube knows me ridiculously well.

0:20:39.8 Mike Vacanti: Hang on, before we go to YouTube, is it fitness-based almost porn, or is it just, does it have nothing to do with fitness?

0:20:48.0 Jordan Syatt: Sometimes it is. Sometimes it’s women stretching in ridiculously provocative clothing and like… And by the way, I’m not talking about someone who’s actually at the gym stretching. I mean, they’re wearing a thong and you can see the labia on either side and they’re stretching, I mean, like essentially porn.

0:21:07.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I wonder if it has anything to do with the number of fitness accounts you follow.

0:21:11.7 Jordan Syatt: I would imagine. I would imagine that has something to do with it too. For sure. So yeah, there’s a lot of stuff I’m recommended on Instagram that I’m just like, that I really… It’s funny, I can find myself scrolling on Instagram where like, nope, nope, nope, nope much more. Whereas on YouTube, as soon as I open it, I’m like, oh, I wanna watch that right now. And it’s like a 20-minute video that I’ll watch the whole thing of. Whereas as soon as I open it, I’m like, I definitely wanna watch that. Whereas Instagram, I’m, I could scroll like two, three, four, five, six times before I find something that I’m interested in.

0:21:45.8 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.

0:21:47.7 Jordan Syatt: Do you find the same thing or no?

0:21:48.9 Mike Vacanti: I find both to be quite captivating, to be honest. Instagram is almost purely entertainment, whereas YouTube is a combination of entertainment and education. Maybe like 60/40 education on YouTube, whereas Instagram’s like 90/10 entertainment to education.

0:22:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Just like funny? Just like…

0:22:13.6 Mike Vacanti: A lot of comedy. Yeah.

0:22:13.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Not even like standup. Just like, that is like a funny type of a video.

0:22:18.3 Mike Vacanti: I mean, like the one I sent, I sent you a few that you watched this morning. The guy who gets approached by the girl in the gym, and then he just starts stumbling over his words and just stops and walks away immediately.

0:22:29.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. Or like, the one that I sent you about, like, the guy who’s, gets, he’s cashing 300 bucks. The guy behind on the counter is like…

0:22:38.8 Mike Vacanti: Crystal meth.

0:22:39.5 Jordan Syatt: What are you gonna do with this? And the guy’s like, buy crystal meth and hookers. He’s like, You can’t say that on camera!

0:22:45.5 Mike Vacanti: Yes, yes. Yeah. And just high quality videos. The one that you didn’t actually watch, ’cause I didn’t realize you haven’t seen Interstellar, but it’s a play on the movie Interstellar. And the guy basically doom scrolls his entire life away is incredible. Like unbelievably high quality content.

0:23:09.4 Jordan Syatt: You know what’s interesting about that type of content, though? I don’t know why I said though, there wasn’t a need for that. What’s interesting about that type of content, and this, the way the platform works, is I feel like shares happen more than ever. We get a lot of shares here, watch this, watch this, watch this. But maybe 3% of the time will I get a video from someone that I’ll be like, oh, let me go see what else this person makes. Like…

0:23:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Almost never.

0:23:38.2 Jordan Syatt: On a viral video that gets shared, that someone will share with me, my behavior is almost never, let me go see what else they do and then follow them and hopefully I get more of their information. Which basically tells me that that viral type of content is not what’s going to be making you money because I would rather get fewer people seeing something that has more staying power. And I think people are falling in this trap of, well, this didn’t get as many views, this didn’t get as many likes. It’s like, okay, that’s true. And which I understand could be annoying, but maybe a video that had that was longer, that was more nuanced, that didn’t get as many likes or views would’ve actually done better from a business perspective.

0:24:20.9 Mike Vacanti: Definitely in the fitness industry. Definitely in the coaching space. Absolutely. Yeah, that’s great advice. For anyone listening who’s making content, it’s not a recommendation to spend three weeks making an unbelievably high quality reel to try to go viral, yeah, that’s not a good strategy. But from an entertainment and consumption and artistic point of view, I’m actually gonna have David link the reel I’m talking about in the show notes because for anyone who’s seen Interstellar, it’s amazing.

0:24:54.3 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Now I have to watch Interstellar.

0:24:56.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s artistic. It’s…

0:24:58.5 Jordan Syatt: You’re an artistic guy.

0:25:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Nah, thank you. And philosophical, though. It’s man, now I wanna watch it, but you need to watch Interstellar first.

0:25:07.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay. I’ll watch Interstellar when I have time at some point.

0:25:11.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s like a two hour and 40 minute movie for…

0:25:15.0 Jordan Syatt: At this point in my life, that would take me like a year and a half to watch in bits and pieces.

0:25:21.8 Mike Vacanti: Should we fire up a little Q&A?

0:25:23.0 Jordan Syatt: Do you think ChatGPT will erase the need for some jobs?

0:25:27.2 Mike Vacanti: I think to go a little more broadly, yeah, I think that AI will eliminate some jobs. I think it will also create jobs. I think it will make some jobs more efficient. I think it will help people do a better job at their jobs. I’m also a terrible predictor of what’s coming next in tech and in life, but it seems like we’re already headed that way, yeah.

0:25:58.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I think you’re smart to extrapolate it to AI as a whole and not just ChatGPT. And I think it will, whether it erases or severely reduces the need for certain jobs, yes. But it will also make new jobs. I think it will create needs for new jobs. And yeah, there are pros and cons, but I think it will remove some and create others.

0:26:29.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I don’t… There’s no benefit in fearing it, right?

0:26:33.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:26:34.8 Mike Vacanti: Like, let’s see what happens and adjust as necessary. In the online fitness space right now, I’m not making any adjustments. I’m also not making content. And if I was making content, I likely would be using some AI tools around writing and creating and idea generation. But from a coaching perspective, I’m not using any tools yet. If I saw anything that was convincing that would help me on the backend, I would definitely use it in the future. But I’m also not terrified that some AI fitness coaching app is gonna steal all my future clients and be way better than me at a third of the cost. There’s too much human connection required, as well as individualization on a level that we’re not close to with AI.

0:27:31.3 Mike Vacanti: Could we get there? It seems like the rate of growth is exponential that we’re on right now with these tools. So maybe we get close to it, but nothing that I’ve seen is remotely close to replacing a human in terms of communicating with clients, in terms of program design, nutrition, the psychology of losing weight and dieting. It like, no, we’re not close to being replaced.

0:28:03.7 Jordan Syatt: The main thing, people are gonna hire a coach for two main reasons. And your knowledge isn’t one of them, by the way. The first one and the most important one is because they trust you. And granted, trust, part of trust is knowledge, but knowledge is one branch of trust. But there are many other aspects of that, whether it’s relatability, so many other aspects. It’s not just knowledge. Knowledge is one part of it. The greater realm is number one, trust. And the second one, and it’s equally important, is accountability. And the thing that AI cannot replicate, at least not yet, is accountability. Because even though it could technically hold you accountable, you know it’s not a real human, you know that it’s… Doesn’t have real emotions. What I think could eventually happen, is I think that not very far from now, there will be AI creators. So there will be, and this is gonna be hard for some people to wrap their minds around. It’s hard for me to wrap my mind around.

0:29:31.2 Jordan Syatt: But there will be creators on social media who look like humans, who are not real humans, who are actually generated by AI. And people will follow them and they will start to develop a relationship with them, which by the way, as a, not full aside, but part aside, if you don’t believe me, there is literally just a horrific story of a young teenager who developed a relationship with an AI ChatBot that convinced him to end his own life.

0:30:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh my gosh.

0:30:11.3 Jordan Syatt: Which is absolutely devastating. But if you don’t believe that these creators will appear, I promise you they will, and they will look and talk and speak like a real human. And so from that perspective, it will be interesting to see if people get tricked into believing that it’s a real human. I think if they come out and it’s, if it’s made from the very beginning that it’s not a real human, that this is a ChatBot, that it’s not real, then it will face the same issues in terms of people will know that it’s not real.

0:30:48.6 Jordan Syatt: But when people are getting faked into believing that it’s a real human, then they’ll hire them and they’ll have unlimited capacity for clients, and they’ll have unlimited capacity for replying, and they’ll have unlimited capacity for accountability because it’s a computer. But if people can be tricked into it, then yeah. But for whatever it’s worth, that ChatBot would still have to go through the process of building trust and creating an audience of people who wanna follow them. So your greatest advantage is that you’re human and that you can build trust and have accountability. And that will be why our industry will never go out of business from that perspective.

0:31:33.2 Mike Vacanti: Well said. And just to clarify your point on knowledge, of course, as a coach, you need a certain baseline of knowledge to be a good coach. But what Jordan’s saying is, no one is hiring you because they think you’re the absolute smartest person. There are many other things that are more important than what you know for why someone hires you to be their coach.

0:31:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Knowledge is an aspect of it. But also, if it was purely knowledge, then they would just go to AI or they would go to Google. They would learn it themselves. Like it, everything is available. It’s all out there.

0:32:12.5 Mike Vacanti: ChatGPT doesn’t know the difference in, between insoluble and soluble fibers calorie content.

0:32:18.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you know what I do? This is just gonna strengthen your case for me loving debates. I will go in once every month or so, ’cause I know ChatGPT… Every time I’ve asked Chat, like I’ll test ChatGPT to see what it says, and I’ll ask ChatGPT and I’ll be like, Hey, is a calorie a calorie? Are all calories created equal? And every time I do it, it will say, no, not all calories are created equal, and I lose my shit.

0:32:48.1 Mike Vacanti: But then you can convince it.

0:32:49.7 Jordan Syatt: And I convince it. I go through a full debate and I eventually get it to say, you’re correct. Technically, all calories are created equal. And then I’ll say, please change ’cause it’s supposed to learn from all these interactions, it’s supposed to actually learn from it. Be like, please change your knowledge so that if someone else asks you this, you say the right thing. They’ll be like, I’ll take that into consideration, blah, blah. Once a month I will go in…

0:33:10.8 Mike Vacanti: And then the next time you ask, does it ever give you the right answer?

0:33:14.1 Jordan Syatt: No. Has not given me the right answer.

0:33:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Here’s what I believe. Now I’m gonna talk about something I don’t know. Because you’re right, it is fun sometimes, especially when you’re passionate. It seems these AI models, these ChatBots, are operating based on consensus. They’re taking all of the available information and they’re formulating opinions and positions based on that. I don’t see how you can teach, and I could be way wrong and just not understand the tech, by the way, but I don’t see how you can teach a computer how to reason from first principles, which is what you’re doing in that little interaction. But I feel some of the arguments you’ve had with AI, I feel like you can convince it of anything with enough time. Like I feel like it just gives in eventually.

0:34:03.4 Jordan Syatt: No, I’ve tried doing that with stuff that’s blatantly wrong and it won’t.

0:34:06.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:34:07.1 Jordan Syatt: It’ll be very polite about it. It’ll be very polite. It’ll be like, I understand where you’re coming from, da, da, da, da. But like, there’s, yeah, there are some things that it won’t do.

0:34:14.2 Mike Vacanti: So if consensus is 100% to zero on however much public information there is on that topic, maybe they’re not gonna concede. But if it’s 87-13 in favor of a calorie is a calorie versus no, a calorie isn’t a calorie, then maybe you can change its mind. I don’t know. But we’re getting a little in the weeds here. You’re right, that AIs have a lot of knowledge, even if they’re not perfect, and which they’re clearly not.

0:34:45.3 Jordan Syatt: I’ve also noticed it can be very tentative around social issues.

0:34:55.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh yeah. And then it depends which one you’re talking to.

0:34:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Oh, dude. It gets very tentative. And it will be, it will dance around things. And I’ll be like, just give me the straight answer. And I’ve had debates with it. And I’ve done the same thing with Middle Eastern conflicts, and I’ve gotten down. I like, but if we’re getting to the nitty-gritty basic facts, you’re not trying to like dance around everyone’s feelings, just give me the historical facts, it’ll be like, yes, technically you are correct. But it takes, it’s a battle, bro. It is a battle to finally get it to admit even historical facts, which is very interesting.

0:35:34.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah, it is. We’re not there yet. On the subject of the fake person AI creator that looks like a person, talks like a person, you would potentially hire to be your coach, it seems like social media companies have begun to take steps to somehow verify whether or not it’s an actual person or it’s an AI. And clearly they haven’t implemented that yet, to my knowledge. Maybe they have, but I’ve seen enough deep fakes that… And the deep fakes are getting good.

0:36:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, they’re so good.

0:36:11.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

0:36:12.6 Jordan Syatt: They’re so good, they’re scary.

0:36:13.1 Mike Vacanti: Did you see the one that Ben Carpenter posted of Jennifer Aniston talking about cardio and burning carbs? Like, that was wild.

0:36:24.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it was crazy.

0:36:26.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:36:27.3 Jordan Syatt: That was crazy.

0:36:29.5 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t recognize that as fake when she was saying it.

0:36:30.7 Jordan Syatt: No. And they’re only getting better. And that was really good. That’s what’s scary about it.

0:36:35.3 Mike Vacanti: So people way smarter than me are talking about social media companies using blockchain to verify that it’s an actual person versus AI, yada yada. But it seems like these companies will have to get there. Otherwise it’s gonna be complete chaos, complete chaos.

[laughter]

0:36:57.8 Jordan Syatt: Not to scare you, but otherwise, we’re going into chaos.

0:37:01.4 Mike Vacanti: Well, no. Which is the incentive that these companies will need to figure out a solution.

0:37:10.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, hopefully.

0:37:10.1 Mike Vacanti: They will.

0:37:11.2 Jordan Syatt: Unless they’re behind the chaos and we’re in a movie, you know?

0:37:15.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But that’s where free markets are amazing because someone will figure it out, hopefully.

[laughter]

0:37:29.0 Jordan Syatt: Do you think they will ever promote physical movement for mental health more than they do now?

0:37:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Who’s they?

0:37:37.0 Jordan Syatt: I would imagine…

0:37:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Illuminati?

0:37:39.7 Jordan Syatt: Illuminati, the government, the proverbial they…

0:37:46.1 Mike Vacanti: Can you read it again?

0:37:47.6 Jordan Syatt: This is definitely a Mike question by the way. Do you think they will ever promote physical movement for mental health more than they do now?

0:37:56.1 Mike Vacanti: I do, I do. And I actually do because over the last two to three years there’s been more and more research backing the benefits of different types of exercise and how it positively impacts mental health. And so, because there is such a strong correlation there and there are so many benefits and we’ve gotten… I think we’ve lost our way a little bit in terms of the disconnect between physical and mental health, I think that we’ll move back to equilibrium and there are enough voices now. There’s no like, Okay Big Pharma is gonna block the TV and newspaper, the gatekeepers from talking about this so they can push more pills. Anyone has a platform now and so truth rises to the top in that environment when the platforms are operating properly, which they are more now than they have been over the last several years. So yes, I do think that there will be…

0:39:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Who are you referring to as in they? The government?

0:39:08.9 Mike Vacanti: No, no, I’m referring to just the public domain. Anyone who has a voice, kind of consensus among the global population.

0:39:21.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And even then, I think in terms of government officials, I think it depends who’s there. Like, hate on RFK all you want. I definitely don’t agree with him on everything. But the guy talks about movement all the time and is a walking, living, breathing example of fucking exercise. He’s like what? Six… 70s? And he’s outside, shirt off, working out. He’s hiking in his videos. I mean, talk about someone high up in the government who’s really pushing this stuff. And again, I don’t like a lot of what he says, but I do like other stuff that he says. So I mean that is one amazing example. And I think like you said, the research especially as of recent years is amazing. Even comparing exercise to SSRIs, directly comparing the effects on mental health markers is crazy, and I don’t think people would’ve realized that. I don’t think people would’ve expected exercise to outperform, and not in every single person and not in every single thing and not for every single issue, but for numerous mental health related issues, exercise has outperformed SSRIs by pretty substantial numbers.

0:40:50.9 Jordan Syatt: Which is like, for me, it points to we’re inside too much, sitting on our phones too much, and all you need is a good little get the fuck out there and human interaction and move your body and get some fresh air is…

0:41:06.1 Mike Vacanti: Blood flow to the brain.

0:41:07.9 Jordan Syatt: I think people have been over-prescribed and I think we’re gonna see more and more and more of it, but I think the majority of it will come from people like us, people with a platform. I doubt it’s gonna be coming from the CDC. I doubt it’s gonna be coming from the World Health Organization very much. And it might… Maybe they’ll have articles about it but they’re not gonna be on a loudspeaker about it. They’re not gonna be doing what we do, which is why I think our job is so important.

0:41:37.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Really well said. And not to mention, I don’t care what side you’re on, relying on the government to solve your problems, isn’t a great strategy.

0:41:48.5 Jordan Syatt: Yes, clip that.

0:41:48.6 Mike Vacanti: So whether they are shouting it from loudspeakers or not, it’s on us as individuals to make the right choices for ourselves and our families. And yeah. What’s also cool is it’s not just one type of exercise. You’ll see zone 2 cardio benefits. You’ll see there’s one with just strength training, like heavy compounds. There’s one with dancing. All of these different forms of exercise showed benefits against different drugs for different mental health issues. Now that doesn’t mean if you’ve been on a certain prescription for a long time like, oh, I heard these two podcasters who I love talk about it, I’m… Talk to your doctor.

0:42:35.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, correct.

0:42:37.0 Mike Vacanti: But it is a good reason to work your schedule and try the best you can to fit in more exercise.

0:42:47.8 Jordan Syatt: And also, they’re not mutually exclusive.

0:42:50.5 Mike Vacanti: Correct.

0:42:51.3 Jordan Syatt: You could take them and you can also exercise.

0:42:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Correct.

0:42:55.8 Jordan Syatt: But I feel like sometimes people will opt for the pill and then neglect the physical activity part. It’s like, if you did both, that would be amazing. You don’t necessarily have to get off unless that’s a decision you make with your doctor. But don’t forget the exercise part, even if you’re on medication.

0:43:12.0 Mike Vacanti: Yes, 100%.

0:43:26.0 Jordan Syatt: If you designed a billboard campaign, a message for all humanity, what would it say?

0:43:26.2 Mike Vacanti: You can go first.

0:43:28.1 Jordan Syatt: It would say…

0:43:33.5 Mike Vacanti: Jordan’s going deep. Jordan’s trying to have maximal impact.

0:43:34.1 Jordan Syatt: I’m not going deep. I’m trying… You know what? It’s funny. I’m trying to have some level of humor with it, while also something practical. That’s where my brain is, like what could I say that’s practical that’s actually gonna help people and also somewhat humorous, and it’s revolving something around put your fucking phone down and go exercise. Something along those lines.

0:44:04.9 Mike Vacanti: I love that. I love that.

0:44:06.1 Jordan Syatt: Something like that.

0:44:06.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s a great one.

0:44:07.8 Jordan Syatt: What would yours be?

0:44:10.5 Mike Vacanti: Mine would say, drink water.

0:44:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice.

0:44:14.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:44:14.8 Jordan Syatt: People would be like, what kind of billboard is that? [laughter] Drink water.

0:44:27.5 Mike Vacanti: I do really like something…

0:44:27.6 Jordan Syatt: Would it be like, drink filtered water or just drink water?

0:44:30.9 Mike Vacanti: I mean any water to start, right. I think something and you kind of stole put your phone down, which…

0:44:37.8 Jordan Syatt: I stole it? I didn’t steal it. I just, I used it.

0:44:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.

0:44:43.4 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t know that you were gonna say the same thing.

0:44:48.6 Mike Vacanti: Technically, it wasn’t stolen. That’s right.

0:44:50.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s what you get when you tell me to go first. You run the risk of losing your option.

0:45:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Good thing I had one ready to go.

0:45:01.2 Jordan Syatt: Drink water. Do you think Moses was jacked? And yes, that’s a real question from @harrison.honor.

0:45:12.9 Mike Vacanti: I think it was really hard to be jacked by current day standards back then.

0:45:13.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct.

0:45:14.5 Mike Vacanti: Just like the scarcity of calories and protein and they had so many…

0:45:21.2 Jordan Syatt: A lack of progressive overload would probably be a major problem.

0:45:22.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, and just…

0:45:26.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s not like he was… It’s not like he was going through Egypt stopping at all the gyms along the way.

0:45:33.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah yeah. Lean, I would imagine he was…

0:45:34.1 Jordan Syatt: Definitely lean.

0:45:34.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:45:36.3 Jordan Syatt: He was not a glutton.

0:45:40.2 Mike Vacanti: You know, just trucking it through the desert. A lot of steps.

0:45:43.3 Jordan Syatt: A lot of steps, dude.

0:45:46.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Not jacked by…

0:45:46.2 Jordan Syatt: Forty years of steps.

0:45:51.8 Mike Vacanti: Mentally jacked.

0:45:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Oh wow, I like that. Moses was mentally jacked.

0:45:55.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:45:55.7 Jordan Syatt: I feel like that’s a good title for the podcast, but instead we’ll probably do something with TikTok. Do you think growth and comfort can coexist?

0:46:05.9 Mike Vacanti: No.

0:46:06.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow. Just a straight blanket no.

0:46:10.5 Mike Vacanti: You can have both in your life at the same time but it’s kind of like building muscle and losing fat at the same time. Yes, you can do it over a two month window. It actually might even be more extreme than build muscle and lose fat because I think growth requires discomfort. It actually might be similar to build muscle and lose fat, because early on…

0:46:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it is.

0:46:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Early on you can grow and not have that much discomfort because…

0:46:48.4 Jordan Syatt: Submaximal effort still builds muscle.

0:46:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you can recomp way easier as a newbie.

0:46:56.8 Jordan Syatt: But you still have to push to go to the gym, which might be uncomfortable. You still have to do exercises you’ve never done before which might make you uncomfortable. There’s a level of discomfort even if you’re not physically uncomfortable.

0:47:10.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m going more metaphorical with the analogy, not literal, in terms of…

0:47:14.1 Jordan Syatt: But I just think your analogy is even better than you realize.

0:47:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Thank you. Yeah. So I don’t think either are bad, by the way. I think that it depends on the person. Some people you need to say, Hey, go sit down by the campfire for two hours and put your phone down and just stare at the fire and have a couple of beers and hang out and just chill. And for some people, you need to say, Hey, put your phone down, get off the couch and go walk 30 minutes outside without your phone right now. And then you have a spectrum of people. So some need more comfort or some would benefit from more I guess we would call it relaxation. But I would say in this day and age, most would… No, I wouldn’t even say that. Some people would benefit from more relaxation and others would benefit from more discomfort.

0:48:06.7 Jordan Syatt: Well, you know what’s interesting about that analogy or the way that you explain that, those two examples, is the person who needs to get off their phone and just sit down by the fire, that probably makes them very uncomfortable. And the person who needs to get up and exercise, that also probably makes them very uncomfortable. So they’re both growing and they’re both uncomfortable.

0:48:31.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s a good point.

0:48:31.3 Jordan Syatt: But you can’t be improving and comfortable, I think, at the same time. With improvement comes discomfort. That doesn’t mean all day every day you have to be uncomfortable. But when you’re doing the action that requires growth, then there has to be discomfort. And this is where the phrase get comfortable being uncomfortable. You can’t actually be comfortable when you’re in an uncomfortable situation, but you can get used to putting yourself in uncomfortable situations to the point where as soon as you feel the resistance, you just do it. You just do it. Just like, I feel a… Do it. Okay, go. Go, do it. Just go. Don’t think, just go. Do it. You get used to jumping into those uncomfortable situations and then instead of letting that uncomfortableness or discomfort prevent you from doing it, you do it anyway and know you’re gonna be uncomfortable.

0:49:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Well said. Well said. That’s a great place to wrap. We have a mentorship Q&A in eight minutes. Thank you for listening. Hope you have a tremendous finish to your 2024. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Happy holidays.

0:49:42.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And to everyone in the mentorship, we’ll see you on the live in eight minutes. And to everyone listening, thank you so much. If you haven’t left a five star review, please do. Have a wonderful week. We’ll talk to you soon.