Episode 211: Could Alcohol Be Good for You? People are Ungrateful, How They Ruin Their Progress, Jordan is Livid, and More…

0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.4 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:13.8 Mike Vacanti: Jordan, just off the pod before we started, made me laugh so hard I started choking on my spit. People are ungrateful. And that has you a little tilted.

0:00:21.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, Michael’s trying to talk to me and he’s like, “Why are you mad?” I’m like, “I’m mad because I’m ungrateful, dude.” People are…

0:00:26.5 Mike Vacanti: No, you’re not ungrateful. People are ungrateful.

0:00:28.2 Jordan Syatt: No, I’m mad because people are ungrateful. Did I say that wrong?

0:00:31.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but…

0:00:33.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, listen, I’m super grateful, but you know what? Maybe I’m not grateful enough. I’m not… Like, life is so good for, like… Dude, you go to the bathroom, you flush the toilet, and all of a sudden your pee and poop just, whoosh, just goes away. It’s gone. You don’t think about it. Like, just that, like, do you know what people did before toilets? I mean, if you are hesitant to go into a porta potty, a porta potty is miraculous compared to what people used to do with shit. Like, it is insane that porta potties exist. And that is infinitely better than what people used to do with their… They used to… Dude, the stuff that people used to do with their own excrement, people wouldn’t believe it. Like, dumping it out of their windows. They would do it in a bucket, dump it out of their window and look, oh, it’s just all over the street. Just all over the street, walking in it…

0:01:31.3 Mike Vacanti: You got clean running water in your house. You have clean running water. You don’t have to go out and get it somewhere and have to worry about a wolf eating you, or a bear, or someone else trying to kill you while you’re getting that water, or then carry that water back. You kidding me? Regardless of the temperature outside, oh, you have gloves. You have mittens. Did you buy those mittens from TJ Maxx or Target? Or did you make those mittens yourself? Like, oh my gosh, dude, people are ungrateful. Ungrateful.

0:02:05.6 Mike Vacanti: What a monologue to start the episode. Jordan watched a…

0:02:08.3 Jordan Syatt: I could go on for hours.

0:02:09.4 Mike Vacanti: A six part Netflix docu. Not docu. Historical fiction.

0:02:16.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:02:17.2 Mike Vacanti: A show…

0:02:17.8 Jordan Syatt: American primeval.

0:02:17.9 Mike Vacanti: About the late 1800s. And you wrote something on your story about it. And then people got mad and so you doubled down and said that people are ungrateful and this is the best time in human history and things are very good. And people got even more mad. And now you’re mad.

0:02:33.8 Jordan Syatt: People got so mad. Now I’m mad.

0:02:34.5 Mike Vacanti: You’re mad at how ungrateful they are.

0:02:36.9 Jordan Syatt: You know who really deserves to be mad about me saying that? The people who really deserve to be mad about me saying that are the people who aren’t able to see that story because they don’t have a fucking smartphone. That’s… The people who deserve to be angry about how I said now is the best time are the people who are like, literally modern day slaves, which exist. The people who are like… Or going through actual wars right now. The people who are… Or… I mean, come on, if you’re sitting in the comfort of your home or you’re at your 9 to 5 and you’re getting paid to be on my Instagram and and being like, “Oh, this is so toxic,” shut up.

0:03:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Where’s anger? 1 to 10?

0:03:22.8 Jordan Syatt: 12.

0:03:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Or 1 to 100. Sorry. 1 to 100?

0:03:25.6 Jordan Syatt: 104.

0:03:26.3 Mike Vacanti: Worst fear.

0:03:27.3 Jordan Syatt: 22.

0:03:28.2 Mike Vacanti: Nice. It’s my hockey number.

0:03:30.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s a good number. Where’s your anger? It’s not high enough.

0:03:34.9 Mike Vacanti: 14.

0:03:36.1 Jordan Syatt: Jeez. Where’s your fear?

0:03:40.4 Mike Vacanti: 1.7.

0:03:41.5 Jordan Syatt: Your fear is lower. Oh, my god, dude, you live in a… You’re delusional. You’re… You’re… You’re delusional.

0:03:48.8 Mike Vacanti: You just told me that this is the greatest time to ever be alive.

0:03:51.2 Jordan Syatt: It is. You know…

0:03:51.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m just living in it.

0:03:52.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re still… You’re delulu. It’s still… There’s still tough… It’s still tough out there, bro.

[laughter]

0:04:00.1 Mike Vacanti: You go the other way. It’s like a Seinfeld. Goes on this giant monologue, just a diatribe. Then he’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

0:04:07.7 Jordan Syatt: Still tough out here, bro. You know what I mean?

0:04:09.5 Mike Vacanti: And you start arguing on the other side.

0:04:11.8 Jordan Syatt: Too funny.

0:04:13.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Hey, you make a lot of good points. I’m excited to watch that on your recommendation and I couldn’t agree more with, you know, people’s perception of the world is definitely clouded with a recency bias. They’re not taking into account all of human history, that’s for sure. And what is in front of them primarily on their smartphone is serving them up what is now their reality or their perception of reality, which is basically…

0:04:43.5 Jordan Syatt: Their perception of reality. Correct.

0:04:44.8 Mike Vacanti: Which it basically is their reality, might not be reality, but it’s what they’re living through. It’s what they think they’re experiencing.

0:04:53.6 Jordan Syatt: Their perceived reality. And, you know, it’s funny especially, I think the unique insight here is as a content creator, someone who makes content, you know how much time and effort goes into making a post. You know how much time and effort goes into curating something specifically to get a response. Like, it’s a lot of time and effort. And all the things that you’re seeing on your feed are things that, especially the way the algorithm works now, it’s things that are most popular, they’re getting the most engagement, they’re getting… People are watching it for the longest period of time, they’re sharing it the most. These are the things that have been curated the most to get the highest reaction out of you, to get the biggest response.

0:05:28.8 Jordan Syatt: So people are gonna be mad that we say the perception of reality. It’s like, these things are curated specifically to get this response out of you. And I don’t care if it’s a news site, I don’t care if it’s an independent media site, I don’t care what it is. Like, if it is freaking you out, you have to really step back and say, “Okay, is this true? Is this real? Or was this done in a way to get me to share it? To get that fear ignited into me, because then I’ll share it more and then this page gets more followers and gets… Like, you always have to think about that because it’s a perception of reality.

0:06:03.2 Mike Vacanti: Didn’t someone reply to your story to the effect of, “We’re living through an authoritarian Nazi takeover of the US government right now.”

0:06:11.7 Jordan Syatt: A fascist… A fascist takeover.

0:06:16.1 Mike Vacanti: Of the US.

0:06:17.2 Jordan Syatt: Of the US.

0:06:18.0 Mike Vacanti: And so. And they unfollowed because how can you be grateful for life right now when we are living through that currently?

0:06:25.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s unbelievable.

0:06:26.3 Mike Vacanti: Well, hey, I got a good segue here.

0:06:28.1 Jordan Syatt: People don’t know what fascist means. People have no clue what fascist means.

0:06:33.4 Mike Vacanti: Jordan’s on one. Jordan’s passionate today. I like it. I’m on Day 15 of zero scrolling vertical video. Speaking of people being outraged about the Internet, Day 15. I’ve probably spent three and a half minutes in 15 days on desktop Instagram, which you were right, isn’t fun. I haven’t even scrolled there. I’ve just checked out the Personal Trainer Podcast page a little bit. Shout out @personaltrainerpodcast, our Instagram. I did download Twitter on probably Day 4, maybe. So I have scrolled a little, but zero vertical video. Just some X on the phone. Just a little bit.

0:07:13.5 Jordan Syatt: How much time on X you think?

0:07:18.0 Mike Vacanti: Way less. I mean, not like… Nothing that I’m proud of. I would say… I would say an hour a day.

0:07:25.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay. It’s not bad. Like, cumulative?

0:07:28.0 Mike Vacanti: Yes. Yeah. In like bits and pieces added up.

0:07:31.3 Jordan Syatt: Do you watch video on X or no?

0:07:32.9 Mike Vacanti: Very little. My X is… I never scroll video on X. Maybe I’ll click a video if it’s… But no, it’s primarily text-based or some photos in there. And yeah, I mean, I was gonna come into this podcast saying I think I want to download Instagram again on my phone. Not to scroll and consume…

0:07:53.0 Jordan Syatt: Don’t. Don’t.

0:07:54.9 Mike Vacanti: But from… As Jordan knows, from some of the conversations we’ve been having off the pod, I’ve kind of had a little excitement around business in the last seven to 10 days. Not like…

0:08:05.4 Jordan Syatt: I didn’t know that.

0:08:06.0 Mike Vacanti: You just have a bad memory. Is that what…

0:08:07.7 Jordan Syatt: What do you mean you even have an excitement about business? You just want… Oh, you want to take it to the moon, you mean?

0:08:11.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:08:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[laughter]

0:08:18.6 Mike Vacanti: And so the idea of… But I don’t know that I’m ready to have it on my phone without scrolling. So that’s for the one and a half to three people who are interested. Day 15 no vertical video.

0:08:28.2 Jordan Syatt: Having the app on your phone and with, “I’m not going to scroll,” is like a crack addict just like dangling like, literally, like, a fishing line with crack dangling right in front of their face all day.

0:08:41.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s a good analogy.

0:08:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Just like, yeah, right here. Don’t use it, but it’s here.

0:08:48.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah, that’s exactly right.

0:08:50.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s like an alcoholic, like, “All right, let me just like constantly carry alcohol on me at all times.” And then like a cigarette person, like holding the cigarette in their mouth but you can’t light it. Like, okay, good luck.

0:09:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Right. Yeah. Good luck, buddy.

0:09:02.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:09:05.4 Mike Vacanti: That is what it is. There are some benefits around keeping up with people, obviously people who are creating content. Like, we’re talking about something different here with content consumption on Instagram. But 15 days, that’s where we’re at here. One day at a time.

0:09:26.4 Jordan Syatt: One day at a… Wait, so do you… Were you saying like, you were thinking about you creating content?

0:09:30.6 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t go that far. I would say…

0:09:33.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, buddy, don’t…

0:09:35.5 Mike Vacanti: I would say… I don’t know what the thought… No, I don’t know what exactly the thought process was.

0:09:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Not that. Got it.

0:09:43.0 Mike Vacanti: Maybe a little dollar eighty on the Personal Trainer Podcast page.

0:09:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting.

0:09:48.0 Mike Vacanti: No, there’s… Not creating it at this point.

0:09:50.6 Jordan Syatt: Dollar eighty, for anyone who doesn’t know, is you go comment on other people’s posts. Giving your two cents…

0:09:57.6 Mike Vacanti: Two cents 90 times a day.

0:10:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:10:01.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Gary’s dollar eighty strategy. Brother.

0:10:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Brother.

0:10:09.1 Mike Vacanti: Warm states are the best.

0:10:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you’re preaching.

0:10:13.4 Mike Vacanti: Warm climate is the best. I spent seven days with the family down in Florida. Felt incredible. Absolutely incredible.

0:10:22.5 Jordan Syatt: You got sun, you got heat, you got time outside. Now you’re back in the freezing cold, man.

0:10:29.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I was out and about this morning, it was literally one degree when I got home. So it was probably like zero or negative one this morning. Yeah.

0:10:38.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s terrible.

0:10:41.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t want to be ungrateful, given how amazing life is, but I felt so good in the warm weather and the sun. It’s going to have to be a play at some point in my life.

0:10:53.2 Jordan Syatt: Like a snowbird. You’ll go down there during the winter.

0:10:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Or even…

0:10:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Spend 51% of the year.

0:10:58.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think you could… It’s hard to spend 51% of the year somewhere unless you’re, like, actually retirement age. You’re just… If you think of school schedules, if you think of things of that nature, more like…

0:11:10.3 Jordan Syatt: Unless you homeschool.

0:11:12.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s true. That’s true. But some kind of split. Some kind of more warm weather. My test felt significantly higher. My drive. My, like… Really.

0:11:29.8 Jordan Syatt: I believe it. I know. It’s because you’re just in such a better mood.

0:11:34.1 Mike Vacanti: No. No. I think if you would have done the blood work, I think it just would have been like, “Oh, his free test is up 30% from these four days of vitamin D straight into the skin.” You’ve got it figured out, though, down in Texas. You really nailed that one. We were in New York City.

0:11:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s like 65 degrees today.

0:11:53.0 Mike Vacanti: COVID hit New York City. And you were like, “Texas!”

0:11:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean, we were going to go to Israel. And then we were like, “All right. Well, it’s tough right now.” And would have been great weather there, too. So we’re like, all right, we’ll go to Texas. It was between Dallas, Denver, and Nashville, because those are just three places that we, like…

0:12:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Like.

0:12:11.9 Jordan Syatt: There’s cool, fun places to go. And I really like Denver a lot. Denver is great because even though it can get cold obviously, it’s so sunny. Even when you’re on the mountains and all that, like, it just… It gets sunny, which, that’s it for me. Even more than the heat, is just, I just need the sun.

0:12:35.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:12:35.8 Jordan Syatt: The gray days is just… It’s brutal, so.

0:12:39.2 Mike Vacanti: Colorado is only 4.4% state income tax. That’s not bad at all.

0:12:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. No. Not at all. That’s… So that was another main one. But we decided on Dallas. And we like it.

0:12:49.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s no zero. Yeah. Dallas is warmer. And 0%. Yeah.

0:12:52.6 Jordan Syatt: Zero. Yeah. Property taxes are pretty high though. Still end up saving money. But property taxes are pretty nuts.

0:13:01.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Still end up saving a significant amount if you combine those two. Jordan, tell me about… and David can bleep this name out. [REDACTED].

0:13:12.2 Jordan Syatt: [laughter] Definitely bleep that name out, David. The same thing that you’ve been talking about on the pod a couple times where someone that you’re friendly with decides to put you on their email list. I didn’t sign up for his email list. Put me on his email list. I’m starting to get emails from… I’m like, why? Why would you put me on your email list? I’m definitely not gonna buy from you. I don’t know. I don’t know what the strategy is. I don’t know who’s out there telling people to do this.

0:13:40.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s what I want to know. Anyone listening who has heard a guru using this as a strategy? Who is the person who’s masterminding this concept?

0:13:49.5 Jordan Syatt: If you know who this is, please, please… Should we have them email you?

0:13:53.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Info@fitnessbusinessmentorship.com. Let us know because we’re very curious.

0:13:58.8 Jordan Syatt: And we want to reach out to them and tell them to stop. Stop giving this advice.

0:14:03.1 Mike Vacanti: It’s happened several times. It’s very interesting.

0:14:05.9 Jordan Syatt: You’re actually losing people money because they have to pay more because you’re adding more subscribers to your list who are not going to be buying from you. So you’re losing money.

0:14:14.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. You’re paying for people who aren’t going to buy. You’re paying for people who are either going to unsubscribe, report as spam, like it’s going to hurt your open rate, and…

0:14:24.8 Jordan Syatt: And it’s pissing people off.

0:14:26.1 Mike Vacanti: And deliverability. And my last point was it’s pissing people off, which is going to lead to brand, reputation, goodwill decrease over time. So, don’t do it. Do not do it. Jordan.

0:14:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Don’t. Don’t do it.

0:14:44.4 Mike Vacanti: No one got rhab…

0:14:45.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m going to do it. [laughter]

0:14:51.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s a great compilation. 2012. No one got rhabdo. What’s up with that?

[laughter]

0:15:02.7 Mike Vacanti: Jordan and…

0:15:02.8 Jordan Syatt: I forgot about this conversation.

0:15:04.2 Mike Vacanti: Jordan and I had a conversation about basically how much better a personal trainer’s programming gets over the course of their career. And we were laughing about some of our earliest program design mistakes or just funny things that we did. And we were talking about super high volume training. And yeah, you were like, “No one… Back in 2012, you never even heard of rhabdo.”

0:15:34.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it wasn’t, it wasn’t… You know what? I mean, there, I think, there are two components to it. One, you know how when people… There are two main components. The first one I think is right now, if you get… If you’re sick or you feel like you’re sick, feel like something is wrong, you start googling it, and you like, you might have this, you might have that, might have this. I think a lot of people are being fed like, “Well, you might have rhabdo because you worked out,” and they’re like, “Oh my god.” And they start telling people that, they’re like self diagnosed when you didn’t actually have rhabdo, because if you actually get it, it’s really dangerous. But then the other one is the massive rise in CrossFit. And I know a number of people who have like gone from couch potato to doing CrossFit, and their body wasn’t ready for the volume that they put on. And like they, and they did like a hundred box jumps in a day on their day one or week one. It’s like, “Okay, yep, you… It’s a real issue.” So yeah, those I think are the two main things. Just massively inappropriate programming. And then also people who are like really sore, they’ll be like, “I think I’ve got rhabdo.” It’s like, all right, let’s chill. Like it’s, it’s actually really dangerous if you do have it.

0:16:46.9 Mike Vacanti: Those are great points. And, and maybe not just CrossFit, but also a mentality of like, you know, go big or go home. Like, this, like, real… I don’t want to call anyone out but like just a super tough guy. Like suboptimally, way too much training volume as like beating yourself…

0:17:07.3 Jordan Syatt: I feel like that was more common in like the late ’90s, early 2000s though. Like, the whole phrase then was “no pain, no gain”. Like, do you remember that? Like, late ’90s. People were like, you go as hard as you can and if you were not in pain, then you didn’t train hard. That was it.

0:17:26.0 Mike Vacanti: I think your first point is perhaps even more valid, which is an increase in generalized anxiety and this like immediately going to the Internet to diagnose something wrong with you at the slightest feeling of discomfort.

0:17:43.2 Jordan Syatt: I know doctors love that. Doctors love it when you self diagnose and you go into the appointment and you tell them what you have. [laughter]

0:17:49.9 Mike Vacanti: I bet. I bet they do.

0:17:52.0 Jordan Syatt: They hate that. “Oh great, you’re on Google. Awesome. Perfect. I was hoping for that.”

0:17:57.0 Mike Vacanti: “It all leads to cancer.” It’s all like, it’s…

0:18:00.9 Jordan Syatt: All roads lead to cancer.

0:18:02.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Oh, you might just have like a little virus like swollen lymph nodes, “No, you have neck cancer. You’re… ” Yeah.

0:18:07.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’ve been thinking about that this whole pod. I got a little crick in my neck, and I think I got neck cancer. But it might have also been that I slept in my daughter’s crib last night for, like, two and a half hours. That was probably it.

0:18:18.8 Mike Vacanti: Which is more likely. Slept in daughter’s crib with a crank neck?

0:18:23.0 Jordan Syatt: Neck cancer.

0:18:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:18:24.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s really difficult when you’re… My daughter’s sick right now, and she just wasn’t going to bed. She just wasn’t sleeping, and she’s great, like, she wasn’t causing any noise, but you feel really bad. So I was like, “All right, let me go up there and, like, give her some medicine.” And I go in, and she’s like, “Abba, come in. Come in. Like, come in the crib.” Okay. So I come in the crib, and then… And I do this thing where when I’m leaving the room, I’m like, “Hey, like, lay down.” Because she’ll sit up as I’m leaving. Like, “Lay down.” Then she’ll lay down. So if I get in the crib with her and I’m sitting up, she’ll be like, “Lay down. Lay down.” And it’s like, I can’t say no. Then I lay down, and then, like, then I just fell asleep.

0:19:00.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:19:01.4 Jordan Syatt: A couple hours go by, and then I had the most excruciating pain in my knee. I don’t even know why. I don’t know why. I just, like… I think I was all bunched up, and when I fully extended out, it was the most excruciating. I wanted to scream. I was like, what the fuck? And then just got up and hobbled back downstairs.

0:19:22.5 Mike Vacanti: Age, man. I mean, being in a crib and, you know, having your knee flexed…

0:19:27.1 Jordan Syatt: Twisted. Yeah.

0:19:27.2 Mike Vacanti: For two and a half straight hours. Weird position. And then you extend. I’ve had that with my ankles recently. At times, if I’m in the same position for a really long time and then stand up, like, yeah, we’re… You know what? I don’t even want to speak that into existence, like, the whole getting old thing, but it exists, that’s for sure.

0:19:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. You’re almost 40.

0:19:50.6 Mike Vacanti: I’m 37. Yeah.

0:19:52.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But in April. April 8th. 38.

0:19:56.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s true. Getting up there. I’m gonna try and be super jacked at 40. I might try to have my peak natty physique at 40.

0:20:06.1 Jordan Syatt: You could absolutely do that.

0:20:07.6 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I know I could. It’d be awesome.

0:20:09.2 Jordan Syatt: Absolutely. Yeah.

0:20:09.7 Mike Vacanti: It’d be awesome.

0:20:10.1 Jordan Syatt: Do you mean like, bigger than 2016, Mike? ‘Cause 2016, Mike was a giant. You were huge.

0:20:17.0 Mike Vacanti: Here’s the thing. I don’t know that I want to… One, I think from an aesthetic, shirtless point of view, I can top that just by being not quite as big, but leaner. Two…

0:20:34.6 Jordan Syatt: You were pretty lean, though. You were lean.

0:20:37.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, not… Not for me, I wasn’t. But relatively speaking…

[chuckle]

0:20:41.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay, yeah.

0:20:44.2 Mike Vacanti: We have to… Bro, I was in a surplus for six straight months. I was eating 700 grams of carbs per day.

0:20:47.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but you were eating zero fat. You had…

0:20:50.9 Mike Vacanti: No…

0:20:51.0 Jordan Syatt: You were literally eating zero fat.

0:20:52.9 Mike Vacanti: I wasn’t.

0:20:53.0 Jordan Syatt: You know one of those muffins…

0:20:54.1 Mike Vacanti: They had a couple grams. I was eating 60 to 70 grams of fat on my training days. And, like, I don’t even remember what the high end of carbs were, five…

0:21:02.9 Jordan Syatt: 500.

0:21:03.0 Mike Vacanti: Somewhere in the 500 to 700 range. Yeah. Uh, but it would just be a fun thing to accomplish. I don’t know. It’s fun to have a target out there.

0:21:17.7 Jordan Syatt: How do you think your training is now relative to then? Like, do you have big differences between your training then and now?

0:21:24.8 Mike Vacanti: The suburbs have made me soft.

0:21:26.5 Jordan Syatt: Have they?

0:21:27.4 Mike Vacanti: They’re eroding my soul slowly.

0:21:29.7 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:21:30.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Something needs to be done.

0:21:31.9 Jordan Syatt: When you go back to the city, do you… Do you train differently?

0:21:34.7 Mike Vacanti: No. The city’s different too. No. It’s a matter of prioritization, setting a goal. And here’s the thing. I’m happy with where I’m at. So I don’t have huge strength aspirations. I don’t need to gain a ton of muscle. And the longer you’re training, seriously, the harder it is to gain more muscle. You’re not taking steroids. Even if you are taking steroids, that’s true. And from a leanness perspective, I’m in a fine range, so I don’t have a motivation like I used to, to look better.

0:22:07.3 Jordan Syatt: What was your motivation back then? Like, what was your motivation to be huge and jacked and like, what… What was driving that?

0:22:13.5 Mike Vacanti: I never wanted to be… I never had the bigorexia that a lot of guys get. If anything, I defaulted to wanting to be leaner. Like, I came from a Tyler Durden fight club era of like, being shredded was cooler. I was a lifeguard for five years. So that was more cooler “peak aesthetic” then, than, like, a muscle monster, than someone who, you know, just has tons and tons of muscles.

0:22:37.7 Jordan Syatt: You were huge, though. I don’t think you realized how big you were.

0:22:41.1 Mike Vacanti: You’re overselling me on the pod. I was…

0:22:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, you were massive. Like, it was… It was insane.

0:22:47.4 Mike Vacanti: We can pull up… I mean, by today’s standards, I definitely wasn’t. I definitely…

0:22:52.5 Jordan Syatt: By today’s standards of people who are not natural…

0:22:55.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:22:56.2 Jordan Syatt: And yeah, but like by an anytime natty standards, you were huge. And even there are people who are not natural who you were still bigger than and leaner than.

0:23:05.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, look, you’re not lying there. Fun goal, peak physique by 40 to…

0:23:14.0 Jordan Syatt: Was a lot of that, like, for business? Or no?

0:23:17.9 Mike Vacanti: Not really, no. Because I’ve heard people talk about that like it helps me with work to stay lean. Early on in my life, it was definitely motivated by, at least in part, by, like, girls, right? And before you find out that…

0:23:37.1 Jordan Syatt: They just don’t care. [laughter]

0:23:38.0 Mike Vacanti: They don’t. Like, 7% versus 12%? Like, it doesn’t…

0:23:41.6 Jordan Syatt: Doesn’t matter.

0:23:43.7 Mike Vacanti: Doesn’t matter. You’re doing it for dudes. Or you end up with more attention from dudes who want to help looking that way, or, like, “Oh that’s awesome, man,” than girls. But that was a contributing factor. There was also something about just the routine and habit, and, like, leaning into the pain. You know, there’s research around caloric restriction and its effects on the brain, and increasing the number of dopamine receptors you have. So there’s actually, like, in the short term dieting sucks, but in the long term being lean and having muscle and, like, consistently strength training, you feel way better. So it was almost like I really enjoyed the process of it. And then in the 2014, 2015, 2016 era, there’s positive feedback from the Internet around having a good physique that then is just a little extra motivation on top of what I already had. And honestly, dude, it’s one of the great hobbies of my life. Strength training and paying attention to nutrition is something that is fun and challenging and reward… Like, fun’s not… Is challenging, rewarding. And yeah.

0:25:03.0 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s fun. I mean, for me it’s fun.

0:25:06.5 Mike Vacanti: Parts of it are fun for sure.

0:25:07.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:25:09.4 Mike Vacanti: Being in a deficit is never really fun.

0:25:11.9 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s never fun. It’s never fun.

0:25:13.1 Mike Vacanti: But there’s also something to the discomfort associated with an RPE 9 set, like being hungry but like battling going to bed hungry… Like, there’s something to that discomfort that sits in opposition of the constant comfort we’re all seeking via all of the short term pleasurable… Like, whether it’s sugar, whether it’s scrolling, all of these things that we can just have in an instant to make us feel better. When you sit in that discomfort, you actually end up feeling better in the mid to long term.

0:25:58.8 Jordan Syatt: I think the thing about that discomfort is it’s the excitement of being on a mission. It’s like, I have this discomfort because I’m on a mission. And whatever your mission is, if you have the discomfort without a mission, it’s not worth it.

0:26:20.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:26:20.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s like, I’ll get… Whatever. There’s no mission. There’s no goal. There’s no reason to do this. But if you’ve got a mission and you’re like, “All right, I’m gonna suffer for the mission,” now all of a sudden it’s like, “Yeah, this is sick. It’s worth it.” Yeah. You feel like a warrior.

0:26:36.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. There’s a psychological element to that. A hundred percent.

0:26:40.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:26:40.8 Mike Vacanti: I think there’s a physiological argument that the discomfort is also good for you in terms of brain chemistry. In terms of…

0:26:51.0 Jordan Syatt: Like, psychologically? Yeah.

0:26:53.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Michael Easter wrote a book called The Comfort Crisis, which had a lot of interesting anecdote and research in there.

0:27:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.

0:27:02.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Who knows? Peak shape by 40 might be a play. And then just blast steroids out of my mind. Not actually. But maybe a little.

0:27:14.7 Jordan Syatt: Maybe.

0:27:15.0 Mike Vacanti: Maybe a little TR… No.

0:27:16.8 Jordan Syatt: Could be.

0:27:18.1 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t, because what’s the upside? Like, a little bit of vanity. What’s the downside?

0:27:24.7 Jordan Syatt: Health.

0:27:24.8 Mike Vacanti: A lot. Years on the back end of your life, like… Yeah.

0:27:27.7 Jordan Syatt: Acne.

0:27:30.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:27:31.0 Jordan Syatt: Hair loss.

0:27:31.5 Mike Vacanti: A lot of guys. Yeah. I actually would kind of like that.

0:27:34.3 Jordan Syatt: You would like hair loss? You could just shave your head.

0:27:36.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I know. I think about it regularly.

0:27:39.3 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:27:40.1 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm. Dude, we know…

0:27:40.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I feel like your hair is a defining…

0:27:43.3 Mike Vacanti: Well, that… If…

0:27:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Feature of you.

0:27:44.8 Mike Vacanti: See, if that’s true, then that’s the reason I should shave my head. Because what a pathetic existence as a man to have hair be a defining feature of you. Like, I mean, I can’t think of a greater insult.

0:27:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Would you ever Bic it? Just, like, completely to the skin, shaved?

0:28:03.3 Mike Vacanti: I mean, I shave my head… I buzzed with a OneBlade, like, every year or two my entire life. You’re really making it…

0:28:10.7 Jordan Syatt: But would you Bic it?

0:28:13.2 Mike Vacanti: I would have prior to developing a little social understanding that that would basically, like, make me Nazi.

0:28:22.5 Jordan Syatt: No, it doesn’t make you Nazi.

0:28:24.2 Mike Vacanti: Obviously. But in the perception of others…

0:28:28.5 Jordan Syatt: Only in the depths of a weird side of social media. Not like any normal individual in the real world.

0:28:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’m mostly with you.

0:28:40.8 Jordan Syatt: And you could be like, “Hey, I’ve got a Jewish friend.” [laughter]

0:28:44.5 Mike Vacanti: That just makes you seem more…

0:28:46.7 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know why that… People say that… I’ve seen people say that. It’s like, oh, yeah. People say, like, oh, yeah, I’ve got, like, this kind of a friend or that kind of a friend. And it’s like, yeah, but doesn’t that actually go against… Like, if you were a Nazi, then you wouldn’t have a Jewish friend.

0:29:01.5 Mike Vacanti: Right, Right.

0:29:02.3 Jordan Syatt: Actually, like, it actually is a vet… If you actually do have… I saw someone… People have accused Bill Burr of being racist. It’s like, you know his wife is black, right? And then they’ll be like, they’ll… People say, “You know his wife is black,” and they’ll be like, “That doesn’t mean anything.” I’m like, “What are you talking about? What do you mean?” [laughter]

0:29:21.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.

0:29:25.1 Jordan Syatt: It doesn’t make sense.

0:29:26.7 Mike Vacanti: I know. I’m with you.

0:29:28.3 Jordan Syatt: “It doesn’t mean anything.” I think it does.

0:29:30.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s a valid… It’s a valid argument in that context. There’s also, I think the way that people respond to that has to do with the actual relationship. So someone who maybe is racist can be like, “I have a black friend.” And they’ll be like, “What’s his name?” And they’re like, uh, what’s his name? And they’re like… They don’t actually.

0:29:50.8 Jordan Syatt: They don’t actually. Yeah, yeah, but it’s like, if you do actually… I don’t know, I feel like it’s a good data point.

0:29:58.1 Mike Vacanti: It is. Yeah, you’re right. It’s a good data point.

0:30:00.5 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know why people hate on that. Like, I feel like it’s an actually good data point because if you were legitimately a Nazi, then you wouldn’t have a Jewish friend.

0:30:08.2 Mike Vacanti: I’m with you. Look, I’m not actually concerned about people thinking that I’m a Nazi. It, honestly…

0:30:14.1 Jordan Syatt: Even though early on in our friendship, you were like, “You’re not that Jewish.” [laughter]

0:30:21.2 Mike Vacanti: Dude, what’s the context on that story?

0:30:23.0 Jordan Syatt: I don’t remember. I don’t remember at all. But I just remember you saying it and I thought it was hilarious.

0:30:26.3 Mike Vacanti: You know what it is? Okay, first of all, you and I have been talking about this recently. I’m actually, like, the nut, worst person in life at being able to identify someone who’s Jewish based on physical appearance.

0:30:39.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. You’re terrible at it.

0:30:42.6 Mike Vacanti: And at the time…

0:30:43.5 Jordan Syatt: Even by name, you don’t. Which is crazy to me. Like, even with someone’s name, I’m like, “Oh, yeah, they’re definitely Jewish.” And you’re like, “Really?” [laughter]

0:30:47.8 Mike Vacanti: Like, Goldstein, I would be. But at the time, I think where my head was, 2015-16ish, I think I just didn’t fully understand, like, Ashkenazi versus Hasidic versus, like…

0:31:06.1 Jordan Syatt: Sephardic. Sephardic. Yeah.

0:31:06.8 Mike Vacanti: Sephardic.

0:31:07.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:31:08.7 Mike Vacanti: But what’s Hasidic?

0:31:11.2 Jordan Syatt: Hasidic is a, like a sect of Judaism.

0:31:13.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s what I meant.

0:31:14.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you meant that?

0:31:15.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:31:15.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, with the payes. Yeah. The curly hair?

0:31:16.8 Mike Vacanti: Is that the hair?

0:31:16.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:31:18.0 Mike Vacanti: I did mean Hasidic. Yeah.

0:31:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Okay.

0:31:20.5 Mike Vacanti: No, no, I wasn’t talking about just the, like, genetic difference between…

0:31:24.6 Jordan Syatt: Got it, got it, got it.

0:31:25.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And so wearing a yamaka or… What’s the… Kippah?

0:31:33.8 Jordan Syatt: Kippah, yeah.

0:31:34.5 Mike Vacanti: Kippah. Those were things that…

0:31:39.5 Jordan Syatt: You got the kippah. [laughter]

0:31:42.3 Mike Vacanti: Those were, in my mind, things that people who were Jewish wore or like, you know, behaviors, whatever.

0:31:55.8 Jordan Syatt: And. Yeah, and I was like… It’s a good data point.

0:31:58.1 Mike Vacanti: And by the way. By the way, there was a lot of, like… There was a moment where we, like, had conversations about God and you were very ESTP around it. And you, like, were kind of agnostic and, like, not… You know, it’s like, “Oh, you’re praying… ” I was like…

0:32:16.1 Jordan Syatt: I was more secular at that point.

0:32:18.0 Mike Vacanti: You’re more secular. Yes. And I don’t even know that I knew that Judaism had, like, any ethnicity. Like, I thought it was purely religion at the time.

0:32:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. Most people, especially most people don’t know that. Yeah.

0:32:29.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. So there’s…

[overlapping conversation]

0:32:31.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Not that Jewish. [laughter]

0:32:39.4 Mike Vacanti: That was the good old days.

0:32:39.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, that was so funny.

0:32:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:32:41.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s crazy. That was like ten years ago. Almost.

0:32:45.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I think I am going to shave my head, actually. Anyway, let’s get to some questions for the people because this has been a terrible 13 minutes of content.

0:32:53.0 Jordan Syatt: You kidding me? I think it was great. “How did you know you’re ready to have kids?” Oh, you want to do that one?

0:33:00.0 Mike Vacanti: How’d you know, Jordan?

0:33:04.0 Jordan Syatt: How did I… Well, I mean, I always knew I wanted kids. It sort of… It starts from there. Like, there was never a question. I didn’t think I was… I didn’t think I was ever gonna get married. When I was younger, I never thought I was gonna get married just because…

0:33:15.7 Mike Vacanti: Like, what age range?

0:33:17.2 Jordan Syatt: When did I think I was not gonna get married?

0:33:18.0 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm.

0:33:18.4 Mike Vacanti: Eight.

0:33:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, okay.

0:33:20.8 Jordan Syatt: I knew from a really young age because I saw a horrible, horrible marriage. And I literally remember thinking, “Why would anyone want to do this? Like, this is terrible.” And then I would… I went to a day camp and I remember talking one of the counselors and. And I was like, “Yeah, I’m never getting married.” And they’re like, “Why?” And I was like, “Because no one likes being married. Like, it’s all… It’s all… ” And they were, like, really taken aback. And I remember I would watch stand up comedy, and one of the reasons stand up comedy is funny is because it’s true. Like, they make it relatable. And always watching stand up comics all make fun of marriage. Both male and female stand up comics, like, hating on their spouses and hating marriage. And then all the sitcoms on TV back in the day, like, hating marriage. It was all like… I was like, “All right, clearly no one likes marriage.” So I always… But I always knew I wanted to have kids, so I always thought I would just adopt kids as a single dad. And…

0:34:16.0 Mike Vacanti: So from like 8 to 18 that was your game plan?

0:34:18.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, from like 8 to 25, I feel like, was my game plan.

0:34:23.2 Mike Vacanti: All right, so that’s… So I was… That makes sense as the initial reason for not wanting to get married. Did other reasons ever factor in? Like, was there ever that, like, I can just date forever? Like, it’s easier, it’s more fun, like, I’d rather…

0:34:43.3 Jordan Syatt: No, no, it was literally just like…

0:34:47.5 Mike Vacanti: What you experienced as a kid.

0:34:47.7 Jordan Syatt: Because after a certain point, after the honeymoon phase, and not like… After, it’s just, it will get bad. That was like, why would you legally bind yourself to somebody when it’s going to get bad? Like, that was where my brain was.

0:35:05.2 Mike Vacanti: And when you say bad, you mean what you saw as a kid. Correct?

0:35:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, exactly. I was like, well, I’ll just have kids then. I’ll just adopt and be a single dad. But then obviously reconnected with my wife and all great. But we knew we both wanted to have kids pretty quickly. We both knew that we wanted to have a, like a pretty big family, God willing. Like, we have two right now and we would love to have more. But I think the main thing was obviously get married first, and then… I think the outside of getting married, it was just, we wanted to make sure we had the financial stability and the time. Those are the two main things. Are we financially able to make it work? And do we have the time to make it work? Like, do we have the… Do I have the ability to take my foot off the gas a little bit on my business? Like, make less content, spend less time, delegate out? Do I have like… That was really the main considerations. In this moment in life, do I have the ability to take my foot off the gas a little bit and if I make less money, is that okay? Yeah, that was it. Financial stability and time, those are the two main things.

0:36:19.5 Mike Vacanti: I love it. I’m just going to give some high level generic advice as someone who’s approaching 40 and trying to be as jacked as possible at 40 and doesn’t have kids. Yet. I don’t think anyone’s ever actually ready. Like, I think that in today’s culture, most people are… Let me frame this a little differently. If I could give advice to my younger self, I would say, “Get started with the whole marriage and kids thing earlier.” And younger self is tough because then life doesn’t play out the same, and I love the way that things have played out. So maybe I’ll say to my younger brother, who’s imaginary, or like you, or something, it’s like, “Get married and have a bunch of kids early on, because you’re never going to feel 100% ready. There’s no such thing as 100% security or safety in this world. There are always going to be things to be worried and concerned about, and no amount of money or no amount of anything is going to make you feel absolutely ready.” And plus, the data’s pretty clear that kids aren’t as expensive as a lot of people… Kids don’t have to be as expensive as a lot of people make it sound.

0:37:56.0 Mike Vacanti: We live in a hyper consumeristic, materialistic society where we spend… Like, people complain about the price of housing and have a lot of legitimate grievances now compared to 70 years ago, for example. But let’s remember, we’re building enormous houses in America compared to the average size of a house and lot sizes back in the ’50s. Like, the amount of brand name spending on a personal level for most people is completely out of control. Like, so much spending is not on essentials. It’s not on food, shelter, and obviously, for some people it is. But for a lot of people, they’re buying a lot of extra stuff that I think that you could raise a family and have a very happy family on less money than a lot of people think.

0:38:54.2 Jordan Syatt: Yep.

0:38:54.8 Mike Vacanti: Remember, like, four years ago when the mainstream take on Twitter was it’s immoral to have kids because it’s bad for the environment? So glad we’re past that point in culture.

0:39:07.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, my gosh.

0:39:09.0 Mike Vacanti: Isn’t that wild?

0:39:09.8 Jordan Syatt: You know what’s crazy about that for me is what… In a separate one is how many people have said, have made it seem like having kids is going to make your life worse. Just focus on yourself and… Oh, dude. And I’m not saying having kids is for everyone, and I’m not saying that…

0:39:36.8 Mike Vacanti: But even the people who don’t have kids, “just focus on yourself” is…

0:39:40.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Terrible. Terrible.

0:39:42.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s not the way to a good life.

0:39:44.2 Jordan Syatt: No. And there’s so many things you can do. Whether it’s spending your time giving to charity or doing, like, a Big Brother, Big sister program, there’s so many things you can do to help. But, like, the… Yeah, it’s the… You’re right. It’s the “just focus on yourself”, that’s the major problem about that.

0:40:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Even if it’s not… Like, meaningful work, like someone who genuinely loves their career or helping people in any capacity, family, friends, relatives, strangers, you know, through a nonprofit, through work, like…

0:40:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:40:20.8 Mike Vacanti: There’s only so much hedonistic pleasure one can partake in for most people before you realize, like, this is empty, there’s nothing at the bottom of this lifestyle. And I think too many people realize that too late. That’s not true. I think some people realize that too late.

0:40:41.7 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yep.

0:40:42.8 Mike Vacanti: Right? Like, look at lottery winners. Oh, it’s like, you can do whatever, you know… You now get to just focus on yourself and impulsive pleasure for the rest of your life. Doesn’t end well.

0:40:54.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude, so many of them lose all their money, too. It’s really bad. It’s really, really bad. That’s like, a good example… You know what I equate lottery winners to?

0:41:04.3 Mike Vacanti: I know. Someone who, like, blows up overnight on social media.

0:41:08.3 Jordan Syatt: Have I said this before?

0:41:09.5 Mike Vacanti: Nope. But I just know your brain, and I just saw where you were going based on your eyes…

0:41:13.1 Jordan Syatt: You knew and I’ve never said that before? Because as I thought about it, I was like, man, this is a genius analogy I’m about to use.

0:41:18.7 Mike Vacanti: I know.

0:41:19.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s crazy that you just knew that.

0:41:20.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, we’re locked in.

0:41:21.8 Jordan Syatt: But, yeah, blowing up on social media and just getting people… “I just want to go viral.” And it’s like, okay. Then all of a sudden, you get hundreds of thousands, millions of followers. I’ve seen this happen. And people end up, short term, they’ve got all this money, they’re doing really well. Long term, they lose it all, and they end up working for someone else. Which is totally fine, working for someone else. But the idea, thinking that blowing up on social media and all of a sudden getting millions of followers out of nowhere is the best path to financial freedom and working for yourself is, that’s not the case, in the same way with winning the lottery. Because the skills that you develop along the way of doing this is what will allow you to have financial freedom and work for yourself long term. It’s not the number. It’s the skills that you have in the development process.

0:42:09.1 Mike Vacanti: Skills you develop along the way. Money management on the working versus lottery side. All the skills you develop by working your butt off for years and growing an audience slow and steady the right way. Also just appreciation for the amount of work you put in.

0:42:24.2 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:42:24.6 Mike Vacanti: Someone busts their butt for 20 years and works 50, 60, 70 hour weeks for 20 years and practices temperance and saves and really earns a nest egg, has an appreciation for what it took to accumulate that and isn’t just going to blow it in a year on cocaine and margaritas, or vacations, or whatever. Whatever. Cars, mansions. Yeah. Versus, you know, if you, if you hit it on a scratch off, you have less appreciation for what it took to get it. You’re more likely to spend it.

0:42:56.3 Jordan Syatt: You know what else? I was thinking about the, the skills that you develop over time. And I think it’s less about the day to day. It’s less about the things that you learn day to day. It’s, in my experience, the things that you learn over time, you learn them in like… You learn big things at once. Like, there’s something that happens and you’re like, “Oh, that is a big lesson that I learned.” And then another eight or ten months will go by and then you learn another really big lesson, and then it’s like nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, boom. And then like something big happens and you learn a big lesson. I think many people assume these lessons that you learn are these like small little things. Every day you learn this, you learn that. It’s like, no, every day is mostly pretty boring, and then occasionally you learn a really big lesson, and that will shift your perspective.

0:43:39.7 Jordan Syatt: I think that’s generally how life happens where most days are boring, boring, boring, boring, boom. Something happens, big lesson. Boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boom. Something happens. But for some reason, I think many people have this idea that every day is supposed to be different. Every day you’re going to be learning something new. It’s like, nope, most of the time it’s boring. And occasionally you get a big, big lesson.

0:44:03.0 Mike Vacanti: I like that.

0:44:04.1 Jordan Syatt: “What do you usually see that ruins people’s progress?”

0:44:07.7 Mike Vacanti: I guess one of, if not the most common, and it doesn’t ruin, but it’s hard to answer absolutely literally. A perfectionistic mindset is something that you’ll see a lot of and it’s kind of cliche, someone who makes a significant amount of progress over a certain time frame because they are completely dialed in over that window. Might be they lose 20 pounds in 12 weeks because they’re hitting their calories every single day and they don’t miss a single gym session, but then they’re out of their routine for a holiday weekend or a holiday, basically they’re off plan, and they completely spiral as a result of that. Like, that all or nothing mindset is one example that comes to mind.

0:45:00.0 Jordan Syatt: There are so many ways you could take this. Like, similar to that one, and then we’ll go down other, other routes is people are like, “Oh yeah, I lost 100 pounds, which is amazing, but I gained 20 back.” It’s like, bro, you’re down 80 pounds still. You’re down 80 pounds, like… And then, but then because they gained 20. Oh. Then they just keep going off track, going off track, going off track. And then it’s like, “You were down 80 pounds. This is amazing.” And then it’s like that all or nothing perfection. “Well, I’m up 20.” Whereas like, okay, but if you just… You didn’t even have to get back to perfection. If you just got back to moderate, it would have been totally fine. You’d still be down 80 pounds, you know.

0:45:41.2 Mike Vacanti: So in that example, it’s almost like their perspective is they’re seeing only the negative and not all of the positive that exists. Because it’s not the being up 20 that is their ruined progress, it’s them only seeing the plus 20 that leads to them gaining another 10, another 10, another 10.

0:46:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly.

0:46:04.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s a great example.

0:46:08.1 Jordan Syatt: People do this with their lifting all the time. Or like they’ll be in 2024, their max deadlift was, I don’t know, 200 pounds. 2025, their max deadlift is like 315. But then they have a bad session and they can “only” lift 280. It’s like, bro, your bad session is 80 pounds stronger than your max deadlift from a year ago. That’s your bad session.

0:46:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. You need the perspective reframe of, no, this is up 80 pounds from…

0:46:46.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:46:47.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

0:46:50.6 Jordan Syatt: Then there are other things where it’s like… Because those are things more like mental and mindset and perspective. Then there’s other aspects of it’s like, okay, let’s look at like what could really hurt someone’s progress maybe from fat loss, is obviously not tracking shit. Not being aware of the cream that you put in your coffee. Not being aware of the oil that you’re using to cook. Those types of more practical, actionable things. I think, you know what’s a big one? This is a big one. A more practical day to day thing is you’ve got a little, a little issue. Little, little slight bugging injury and you keep trying to push through it. And that light, that, little thing that just didn’t feel good, that you’re like, “I’m going to keep going, I’m going to keep going. I’m going to keep going”, what would have been fixed in a week will now take six months. Because you fucking idiot, I’m talking to myself, I’ve done this many times. It’s like you just kept going, you kept pushing, pushing, pushing until now you’ve got a… Literally you’ve a six month recovery. What then…

0:47:53.9 Mike Vacanti: Maybe a surgery.

0:47:54.0 Jordan Syatt: If you just took a week off, if you took a week off and not even a week off completely, but just didn’t train that movement pattern, you would have been fine.

0:48:02.7 Mike Vacanti: People struggle. Now we’re getting into a different group of people.

0:48:06.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes, yeah.

0:48:07.2 Mike Vacanti: But I can relate. It’s like taking that little bit of time off and people don’t want to take that time off. “No, I have to. I can’t miss a week. I can’t even miss a session.”

0:48:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Yep.

0:48:18.2 Mike Vacanti: Yes. The injury, the way that that can compound into a much worse injury down the road, possibly needing surgery or just needing extensive time off is… That’s a great example. People who struggle with… And this one’s less common, but I’ve seen people who don’t have a great relationship with alcohol stop drinking and make some really good fitness progress. And then as soon as they think, “Oh, you know what, I can manage this,” and they’re back on the bottle. And then fitness tanks, they fall into that similar pattern of… And I think more people than not who drink actually do a good job with moderation. And so again, this is applying to a subset of people, but it’s something I’ve seen, is falling back into that pattern definitely hurts consistency in the gym, consistency around nutrition and you’ll just see strength go down, muscle mass go down, body fat go up. How they feel worsens.

0:49:29.5 Jordan Syatt: Bro. Alcohol can be brutal, man. Alcohol can be really… Because especially for someone who really struggles with it, but even people who don’t really struggle with it can still really fuck up with your progress. Like, usually when you drink it, usually for someone is at night, fucking with your sleep. You get poor sleep, you’re not going to get a good training session in if a training session at all. You end up eating like shit because you’ve been drinking. Like alcohol is a real fucking beast. It’s a real beast.

0:49:54.7 Mike Vacanti: And so popular. It’s just like…

0:49:55.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I mean, I love it. But like…

0:49:56.0 Mike Vacanti: Ingrained in our culture. But popular from the perspective of it’s one of the main things that people do when they gather together. So it’s linked so intrinsically to socialization in our and many cultures that it makes it especially hard for people who struggle with it.

0:50:18.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. Yeah, yeah. Super hard for people who struggle with it. It is cool to see it becoming more normalized to not drink. It’s becoming a big thing now. Like…

0:50:30.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:50:31.3 Jordan Syatt: It used to be really weird. I know there are still circles where it’s like, it’s weird. Like what? Like it’s hard to go out into an event where you don’t know anyone and you don’t drink. Someone’s gonna be like, why don’t you drink type of thing. It is weird to some people. But now more than ever in human history is it… I mean, mocktails, it’s a big industry. Mocktails is a huge industry. It’s fucking huge.

0:50:57.7 Mike Vacanti: Huge.

0:50:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Huge. You know, it’s a big thing. It’s a big thing. It’s big…

0:51:01.8 Mike Vacanti: And just more…

0:51:05.0 Jordan Syatt: Pretty frankly. Speaking of someone who’s never had had a drop.

0:51:12.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. What do you always say? Don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t do drugs. Those are the three.

0:51:18.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, man.

0:51:21.2 Mike Vacanti: What was I going to say? Oh, just more research too around alcohol in the last five years. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think five, six, seven years ago, the consensus amongst a lot of evidence based people, maybe 10 years, was that some small amount of alcohol is healthier than zero alcohol.

0:51:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that was the consensus. Correct.

0:51:43.3 Mike Vacanti: From a physiological perspective. Not like alcohol helps with socialization, socialization is better than isolation. So…

0:51:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct. No, just like cause, effect, alcohol, yeah.

0:51:51.5 Mike Vacanti: No, like, a little bit of wine, a glass, three glasses per week or a small glass per night, or something to that effect, is actually better for you than none was what the scientific community consensus thought. And now…

0:52:06.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so people literally drank because they wanted to meet that, like, “I think it’s better to have a little bit than not at all.” Even people who like would have done without it.

0:52:16.0 Mike Vacanti: And now the evidence is much more clear that no from a physiological perspective, zero is the best amount of alcohol to consume for your health.

0:52:26.0 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:52:26.1 Mike Vacanti: And you can make the socialization argument, you can make the alcohol brings people together and isolation is super bad for you as we know. And so some might be net better for you if it leads to more human interaction.

0:52:40.3 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:52:40.8 Mike Vacanti: There are arguments that are valid on that front.

0:52:43.0 Jordan Syatt: But it’s not like cause effect, alcohol. That’s the only variable. No, it’s… Yeah.

0:52:47.3 Mike Vacanti: And that’s now really understood by the masses. Like, whoever has done a good job of getting that science out, you know, the collective. Because I see, I’ve seen recently someone got absolutely ratioed on Twitter for trying to argue like, some alcohol is better than no alcohol, like, you should drink some. And like the rep… It had like five likes. And the reply to it was like, actually, that’s not true.

0:53:16.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s not true at all.

0:53:17.3 Mike Vacanti: Like 900 likes. Like, people understand.

0:53:19.5 Jordan Syatt: People get it now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:53:21.3 Mike Vacanti: That was a real tangent.

0:53:22.5 Jordan Syatt: That was good. That was a good tangent.

0:53:24.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:53:24.8 Jordan Syatt: “What’s your go-to breakfast?”

0:53:26.5 Mike Vacanti: What’s yours?

0:53:27.2 Jordan Syatt: You know, lately I haven’t really been having breakfast.

0:53:29.8 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:53:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Intermittent fasting. I’ve been intermittent fasting. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it but you know.

0:53:39.0 Mike Vacanti: Your growth hormones got to be off the charts.

0:53:42.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, lately I haven’t been eating breakfast just because the mornings have been really, really busy.

0:53:48.0 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:53:48.8 Jordan Syatt: Ideally, in an ideal world where I’m eating breakfast, I’m having berries. Blueberries, blackberries, and raspberries. Like, the trifecta of berries right there. I’ll probably have some type of Greek yogurt, Oikos PRO 2020 grams per, easy I’ll usually have two of those. So crank out 40 grams of protein, bunch of fiber from the berries. Often that’ll be it. If I’m feeling like I want a bit of crunch to it, I’ll add some Bran Buds to it so I get even more fiber. And then, and then coffee, like a nice hot black coffee is my usual go-to breakfast. What about yourself?

0:54:34.6 Mike Vacanti: I love it. Pretty much the same. Protein shake, a little bit of creatine. So just 6 ounces of cold water, scoop of protein powder, little creatine, some almonds and a banana. It’s kind of the go to. The one thing I’ve been doing differently recently is actually at nighttime… And we’ll wrap this because I know you gotta go. But in that post dinner, like between dinner and bedtime, where a lot of people completely screw up their day snacking, relaxing, watching a show, whatever you’re doing in that window. Bran Buds plus either Core Power Vanilla or yogurt. But I’ve been like 80/20 Core Vower vanilla as the milk with a bunch of blueberries has been a game changer.

0:55:23.1 Jordan Syatt: That sounds amazing. That sounds amazing.

0:55:24.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Really good for digestion and also just filling during a time frame when it’s very easy to overeat on snacky type foods.

0:55:34.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I love that. That sounds really good. Now I’m super hungry. I haven’t eaten yet.

0:55:39.8 Mike Vacanti: Sign us off. Jordan.

0:55:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Thank you everyone for listening. We love you. We appreciate you. Please leave a five star review if you haven’t already. The written reviews help the most. We hope you enjoyed the episode because we had a great time recording it.

0:55:51.7 Mike Vacanti: We did.

0:55:52.8 Jordan Syatt: Have a wonderful week. We’ll talk to you soon.

0:55:54.0 Mike Vacanti: See you next week.