Episode 212: HAES is Dead, Intuitive Eating Insights, Ankle Weights vs Weighted Vests, Raising Kids is Brutal, and More…

0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.3 Jordan Syatt: Hello, Michael.

0:00:13.2 Mike Vacanti: I am in a great mood.

0:00:14.8 Jordan Syatt: I can tell.

0:00:15.5 Mike Vacanti: Life is amazing.

0:00:16.7 Jordan Syatt: You know how I can tell when you’re in a good mood, just purely based on a text message when we haven’t even really spoken yet? Is when you say the podcast was sent with an exclamation point, like the link. You’re like “sent!” with the exclamation point. But if there’s no exclamation point, doesn’t mean it’s a bad mood, but it’s just like a normal mood where it’s like “sent.” But when it’s “sent!,” that’s when I know I’m in for a good podcast.

0:00:41.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s a little tip on reading people, a la Syatt Fitness. Bro, I just had a world class workout.

0:00:49.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, let’s go.

0:00:49.9 Mike Vacanti: Absolute world class.

0:00:52.4 Jordan Syatt: What’d you do?

0:00:53.8 Mike Vacanti: Upper push.

0:00:55.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice.

0:00:56.0 Mike Vacanti: Chest, shoulders, triceps, everything was grooving, was feeling it deep in the muscle bellies, mind muscle locked and loaded strong, increasing weight.

0:01:07.3 Jordan Syatt: When you’re really going hard and heavy, like you’re really going hard and heavy, like you’re pushing at or near failure…

0:01:15.0 Mike Vacanti: By the way, I wasn’t, but keep going.

0:01:16.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, you weren’t? Oh, okay.

0:01:18.2 Mike Vacanti: No, no. I don’t. I don’t think I hit RPE 8 even. My top…

0:01:21.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting.

0:01:22.0 Mike Vacanti: Top set of bench, I probably, actual eight. Like gun to your head, family’s life’s at stake, RPE 8, like a true 8. No, probably a seven. But, sorry I interrupted.

0:01:33.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, I mean, that’s what I was gonna say, is like, do you go anywhere mentally when you’re at like an RPE 9, or like when you’re having those sessions where you’re really trying to go nuts, do you think in your head, if I don’t do this, my family will die? Is that your mentality ever?

0:01:52.7 Mike Vacanti: 15 years ago, yes. Now, no. I mean, maybe on the one off, if I have to go there. It’s part of the reason I told you the other day that I, off the pod, I think, that I don’t really love hypertrophy training that much, even though I’ve developed a reputation for it, because the effort required to take so many sets near failure can consistently for years is exhausting and debilitating. And for me personally puts me in a place where I have to go to such dark places in terms of anger, pain to produce that outcome that I’ll do it from time to time, but I don’t like I used to when I was younger, that’s for sure.

0:02:34.8 Jordan Syatt: So what made today so good? It just felt good? Like you’re…

0:02:37.7 Mike Vacanti: It felt good. Great pump. Honestly, this is probably… What matters more are the workouts when you don’t feel good. Like getting through those training sessions are actually more important. Like today is just fun. Everything was grooving, weight felt light, happy to be there, like in a good mood. That’s icing on the cake. Where you really make progress and develop the lifelong habit is when you don’t want to go to the gym, when you didn’t sleep great, when you’re stressed, when you feel a little banged up but you you still get through the session. That’s actually where those add up in the long run.

0:03:16.8 Jordan Syatt: 100%. And I feel like the sessions that are like truly, truly fun are fewer and further between the more you do it. Like you know when you’re like… The most fun I’ve ever had, like the most real fun was when I was working out in high school. That was like the most fun workouts. And then even when I was in college and powerlifting and I had the best training of my life with like the best training partners, and it was still really fun. It was more fun was the post workout when we all went and got chocolate milk at CVS or Walgreens on Main Street. But the most fun I’ve had consistently time, workout after workout after workout, was high school workouts.

0:04:00.4 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. That makes sense. I hadn’t really started liking it yet. I agree with you high level that earlier on, compared to 20 years in, you’re gonna have more… Like when you’re really obsessed with it.

0:04:17.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s a novelty still. It’s a novelty.

0:04:19.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:04:19.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s like, oh, I haven’t done this exercise ever before. But to be fair, that’s also why I’ve had so much fun with my mobility training recently or in the last year, because I haven’t done this style of training as my main modality. Same thing when I started with jiu jitsu, when you start something new, when you start a new type of training. It’s also one of the reasons why I like hiring new coaches every year, year and a half or so, ’cause you get a new style of training. It’s fun for the first… Like you get a refresh, which is nice.

0:04:48.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Not only do you get the benefit of learning from them, but like you said, the psychological stimulation of the novelty.

0:04:55.8 Jordan Syatt: Good, bro. I’m glad you had a good workout. That makes me happy. Sets the tone for the day.

0:05:00.1 Mike Vacanti: Good. I mean, your tone… It’s 11:54 am. Your tone’s been set. You’re grinding.

0:05:06.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m grinding every day.

0:05:07.6 Mike Vacanti: You’re grinding like…

0:05:08.8 Jordan Syatt: You babysat yesterday? You grinded?

0:05:10.5 Mike Vacanti: Brother, brother, that’s next on my list. Was it yesterday? Two days ago.

0:05:14.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. You know, the days blend together at this point. One week is all one day.

0:05:19.8 Mike Vacanti: I want to give a massive, massive, the biggest shout out to all of the parents, and specifically, like stay at home moms and stay at home dads, but stay at home moms.

0:05:33.7 Jordan Syatt: There are more stay at home moms than there are stay at home dads.

0:05:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Over the course of time, there’s been 20 million X more stay at home moms.

0:05:43.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s true, man. It’s true.

0:05:44.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, when you look at human history.

0:05:46.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and Even now, probably.

0:05:50.0 Mike Vacanti: 20 million’s a lot. Like 20 million are the ones… But over human history for sure. And yes, there’s still more. So I babysat my nephew by myself. My wife wasn’t with me or… No, it was the first time that I had done that.

0:06:06.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it was the first time? Is that the first time it’s just you and him alone?

0:06:09.1 Mike Vacanti: I think so. It was just the boys. Just the two of us, yeah.

0:06:11.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:06:11.7 Mike Vacanti: And he’s 2 years old, he’s a toddler. And he was amazing, but it’s exhausting.

0:06:21.6 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s unbelievable.

0:06:23.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s non stop. And it wasn’t even two hours actually. It was probably…

0:06:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, really?

0:06:27.6 Mike Vacanti: It was probably an hour and a half, and I just developed a whole… Like projecting that hour and a half over the course of many years, just the first thing I said to you is, why didn’t you tell me that watching a kid is significantly harder than work?

0:06:45.3 Jordan Syatt: I’m gonna read this text. You said, I get a text Tuesday, 4:35 p.m, just out of nowhere. “Parenting is harder than podcasting. You never told me this.” And I said, “Bro, I’ve told you.” And you said, “You never said it was harder than our jobs.”

0:07:06.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. Designing programs, interacting with clients, even having a difficult client, having a difficult inter… No, man, no. And he was great the entire time. I can’t even imagine the times when a kid is acting up, but just the sheer amount of, you know, I’m running around jumping from couch to ottoman to couch and diving. And he’s mimicking me and we’re laughing, and more, more, more.

0:07:33.7 Jordan Syatt: More and more and more.

0:07:33.9 Mike Vacanti: Okay, so I do it again. More of everything. We’re dancing. We played the same song on repeat like 30 times. Just more, more. Like, it’s exhausting.

0:07:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And it’s great. It’s great.

0:07:46.3 Mike Vacanti: Of course.

0:07:47.1 Jordan Syatt: But it’s exhausting. Yeah, it’s unbelievable.

0:07:49.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Like, I had to lay down after that hour and a half. I had to rest up and recover. So shout out to all the parents.

0:08:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Two is a real savage of an age. Two is a real savage of an age. Like, it’s tough, man.

0:08:06.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was.

0:08:07.5 Jordan Syatt: They don’t get tired.

0:08:08.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s what it is. Yeah.

0:08:09.7 Jordan Syatt: Or even if they get tired, it’s funny. Like with my daughter, even when she’s tired, it’s like when I get tired, I want to lay down. When my daughter gets tired, she just doesn’t want to lay down. And I can tell she’s tired. There are tells. Like, she’ll get like deliriously goofy. Like she’ll just laugh at anything, but she’s still running around. Like, she’s still sprinting. It’s not like she would say, hey, I’m gonna go lie down or I’m gonna lie down ’cause I’m tired. She would just go, even though she’s exhausted. It’s very interesting.

0:08:40.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s impressive is what it is.

0:08:42.0 Jordan Syatt: It is. It is.

0:08:42.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s just a never ending tank of gas.

0:08:45.9 Jordan Syatt: I remember being at sleepovers and stuff when I was a kid and all of us were exhausted and we were just staying up and laughing and we were laughing at things that weren’t even funny just because we’re tired. But we’re all staying up ’cause that’s what you do and you’re a kid, you just want to stay up ’cause it’s cool. It’s interesting, like, as you get older, you’re tired, you’re like, I’m going to bed, I’m going to bed. But when you’re a kid, nope, we’re just gonna, we’re gonna stay up. We’re gonna milk this as long as we can.

0:09:11.4 Mike Vacanti: Those were the days. I feel like I would go to bed at sleepovers.

0:09:15.2 Jordan Syatt: I believe that. I believe that you’d just be the one who’d cover your head with the… What’s it called? What’s the…

0:09:23.6 Mike Vacanti: Sleeping bag?

0:09:23.7 Jordan Syatt: Sleeping bag. Sleeping bag. You’d cover your head and like, just, I’m out. And I’d be the one who’d be throwing stuff at you.

0:09:31.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yes, you would.

0:09:31.9 Jordan Syatt: And you’d be like, let me go to sleep.

0:09:34.5 Mike Vacanti: Literally. That’s exactly how it would have been. Jordan and Mike, age 9. We can bleep this name out, but I want to talk about a meal delivery service [REDACTED] that I tried.

0:09:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Okay. You don’t like it? I knew you don’t like it.

0:09:57.9 Mike Vacanti: I’m just gonna… It’s better than it could have been. But here’s my… It’s not even that I don’t like it. I’m just gonna say some good things and some bad things and I’d rather not publicly.

0:10:11.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, go for it.

0:10:14.3 Mike Vacanti: I mean, I guess the good is it’s hyper convenient and seemingly nutritious. And the taste isn’t bad at all for what it is, so.

0:10:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, for a pre prepared meal, it’s good.

0:10:24.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t believe the nutrition facts.

0:10:30.1 Jordan Syatt: You also don’t believe the nutrition facts on the Core Powers.

0:10:33.5 Mike Vacanti: No, I do, I do. I just…

0:10:36.3 Jordan Syatt: You used to not though.

0:10:38.1 Mike Vacanti: I used to not until I understood…

0:10:40.4 Jordan Syatt: How they did it?

0:10:41.0 Mike Vacanti: This filtration system they use to skim the protein out of milk. Some of these meals are 250 calories, 280 calories and so filling that I don’t understand what the ingredients are that if the calories are accurate, I don’t know what I’m putting in my body that’s filling me up that much on those few calories. And there’s a few random things. I feel like they’re a newer company. It says, instructions are leave the plastic on when you microwave it, and so I did. And some of them have, like the pancakes have a syrup or there’s sauces and they’ll be in a little plastic container inside there, and the plastic is literally melting.

0:11:31.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, that was…

0:11:32.4 Mike Vacanti: Like actually melting.

0:11:34.0 Jordan Syatt: You gotta take that out before you…

0:11:35.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s the instructions.

0:11:37.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I know, I know, I know. Yeah, yeah, they gotta fix that.

0:11:40.4 Mike Vacanti: There aren’t even that many words on the label, but it explicitly says do not remove pack or do not remove…

0:11:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, really?

0:11:47.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:11:48.0 Jordan Syatt: Interesting.

0:11:48.1 Mike Vacanti: It says do not remove plastic. Microwave as is. Yeah.

0:11:53.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, when I would do it, I would just open it, take the plastic out and then reclose it again. But yeah, that’s… They gotta fix that instruction. If they gotta put that on McDonald’s hot coffee and say, warning, this is hot, then they gotta do that on these meals too.

0:12:10.0 Mike Vacanti: Well, but you did the opposite of what the instructions say.

0:12:12.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct. I know.

0:12:13.3 Mike Vacanti: You did the exact opposite. It’s not like the McDonald’s thing. This is, they’re just tell you to do the wrong thing and then increase the estrogen of… Like our estrogen levels are high enough. We don’t need to be eating melted plastic.

0:12:27.5 Jordan Syatt: We’ve got enough microplastics in us already, yeah.

0:12:29.9 Mike Vacanti: We do. We do. Yeah, so in a pinch, probably good to have around. They delivered them four days before they were supposed to, and I was out of town, so that was a little weird. It might say that in the terms of conditions.

0:12:48.0 Jordan Syatt: It was really great when my second daughter was born. It was really, really great because we weren’t cooking, we didn’t want to be ordering in junk all the time, like super high calorie stuff and more expensive when you order food. So honestly, the immediate postpartum era, it was really nice to have.

0:13:12.0 Mike Vacanti: From a convenience perspective, I completely agree. I’m just… Like, I know what the macros are of a Quarter Pounder. If I need to eat junk in a pinch, I’d rather know how many calories I’m putting in my body than eating something that isn’t accurate.

0:13:28.6 Jordan Syatt: I believe it’s accurate. I believe it’s… I do. I do. I believe it’s accurate.

0:13:34.5 Mike Vacanti: Three pieces of French toast with chocolate. Like, not chocolate syrup, but like chocolate pasted on top of them with syrup, and the syrup’s probably just artificial sweeteners, right? So we’ll call this syrup zero calorie for all intents and purposes. But three pieces of bread, french toast is made in egg, and then you have chocolate globbed on top.

0:13:56.6 Jordan Syatt: But did they have egg on that French toast? I feel like I remember I got the French toast and it didn’t seem like they used egg on it or butter or anything. It seemed it was just like bread.

0:14:04.2 Mike Vacanti: I agree, no butter. But I still don’t understand how the whole thing’s 24 grams of carbs with three pieces of bread and all of this chocolate globbed on that wasn’t… That chocolate had sugar in it, so. Anyway, I’m glad I tried it and might even order from them again, just to have a few in the freezer for an absolute pinch. But it’s not gonna be our main…

0:14:30.8 Jordan Syatt: Did you get the main meals, like the lunches and dinners or just the breakfast?

0:14:34.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I got main meals as well. And they’re decent. They’re decent.

0:14:40.6 Jordan Syatt: Okay, cool.

0:14:41.7 Mike Vacanti: Digestion wasn’t incredible after. Very filling. And a couple of them were good. There was a fish with linguine with spinach. That was pretty good.

0:14:56.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, we don’t need to bleep the name out either. We can…

0:14:58.0 Mike Vacanti: I’d rather.

0:15:00.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay. We’ll keep it out. What are you eating? What is that? Is that a cookie?

0:15:06.8 Mike Vacanti: You got so excited. What are you eating? What is that?

0:15:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Well, you gotta understand, anytime I even consider eating something on a podcast or on a live, I immediately get reprimanded for it.

0:15:21.6 Mike Vacanti: Brother, brother, that was years ago.

0:15:24.8 Jordan Syatt: No, it wasn’t years. I ate olives like a week or two ago, and you were like, better be quiet.

0:15:31.8 Mike Vacanti: That actually didn’t happen. That actually didn’t happen. What you did… That was probably a year and a half ago. One thing that you did, it was…

0:15:40.5 Jordan Syatt: The popcorn was a year and a half ago.

0:15:42.1 Mike Vacanti: The popcorn was in 2021, when I was in Florida in January.

0:15:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, okay. It was long time ago.

0:15:47.2 Mike Vacanti: So that was four years ago. What happened recently was you sat down with some food at the beginning of a podcast and you go, “Just so you know, I’m gonna be eating during this.” And I said, “No worries, brother. We have a good amount of time. Why don’t you just eat and then we’ll do the podcast.” You’re like, “No, let’s just get started.” And I said, “Okay, how long are you gonna be eating for?” And you go, “The whole episode.” I said, “Okay.” And then we just hit record.

0:16:16.1 Jordan Syatt: And I was super quiet with it. It was quiet.

0:16:18.9 Mike Vacanti: I think David makes it quiet. Shout out David the GOAT. But you were…

0:16:21.6 Jordan Syatt: Shout out David.

0:16:24.3 Mike Vacanti: I could tell that stress levels were high and you didn’t have time to eat. And you got two little kids, so eat during the podcast. But this is a post workout. Just trying to keep my…

0:16:33.9 Jordan Syatt: Glycogen stores?

0:16:35.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, just top everything off. The glycogen, the anabolism, the sugar to the brain, all of it.

0:16:42.7 Jordan Syatt: I like. What kind of cookie? Chocolate chip?

0:16:43.8 Mike Vacanti: Brain glycogen. It’s not a cookie. Come on, Jordan. I’m not just eating a cookie here in the middle of the day. It’s a Clif Bar. It’s my post workout enjoyment.

0:16:50.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it’s a Clif Bar? Got it, got it, got it. Okay.

0:16:52.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Want to give a big shout out to Debbie in the mentorship.

0:16:58.3 Jordan Syatt: Let’s go, Debbie?

0:16:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Debbie emailed us and gave me a book recommendation.

0:17:04.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay. What is it?

0:17:05.3 Mike Vacanti: It is called How to Break Up with Your Phone: The 30-Day Plan to Take Back Your Life. After listening a couple of episodes ago, Debbie was like, “I listened to the episode and then immediately saw this book and thought of you.” And so I’m gonna check that out.

0:17:22.6 Jordan Syatt: I’m gonna have to check that out too. It’s gonna be one of those things where it’s like, I don’t know if I’m able to do this until I retire. I really think the only way I’ll be able to do that is retirement. It’s sort of like an alcoholic being like…

0:17:38.0 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s not. You’re making content.

0:17:39.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, right. But like, I have to. It’d be like if an alcoholic has to drink alcohol.

0:17:44.0 Mike Vacanti: To provide for their family?

0:17:46.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah, yeah. It’s like, no, but like, don’t overdo it. Just have a couple of drinks but don’t overdo it. It’s like, yeah, just post, but then don’t use social media after you post. It’s like, okay, well, good luck.

0:18:02.5 Mike Vacanti: And the analogy absolutely holds. It’s probably less severe. It is less severe, obviously, than alcoholism.

0:18:10.2 Jordan Syatt: Of course. Of course. Of course. It’s not a physiological dependency.

0:18:15.1 Mike Vacanti: I think there might be a small…

0:18:17.9 Jordan Syatt: No, psychological, not physiological.

0:18:22.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know, man. I’ve seen some crazy… Yeah, look, not a physiological dependency like drugs and alcohol are. That’s for sure. But I think there might be a degree of physiological dependence even on some of these “less addictive” things, like social media.

0:18:39.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s just different. Like, the alcohol is crazy because if someone is really, really, really over consuming alcohol and then they just stop cold turkey, like they can die. So it’s like you’ve really got a… You can’t just stop cold turkey all the time sometimes, depending on the level of your addiction and severity of it. But alcohol is a real fucking beast.

0:19:05.2 Mike Vacanti: It sure is. I’m not as good at eating during the podcast as you are.

0:19:11.0 Jordan Syatt: Well, I’m fine with it, brother. You can eat as much as you. You could have a seven course meal if you’d like while we do this podcast. I enjoy it.

0:19:18.2 Mike Vacanti: I just got to get this little bit of carbs down. Okay. I actually don’t know the answer to this one, and it’s on the same subject, and maybe we’ll just do it real quick and then maybe pick it up when I have an actual answer, but of alcohol. No, Eileen. Big shout out, Eileen. Longtime listener to the pod. She, said, “Mike, good morning. Your entire rant on scrolling lands. I wanted you to know that. However, I get dopamine hits every Tuesday when you guys drop an episode.”

0:19:50.2 Jordan Syatt: Thank you, Eileen.

0:19:51.3 Mike Vacanti: “I’m sitting here listening to your pod, drinking my protein coffee, eating protein muffin, early AM. This is a total dopamine saturation for me. So the question is, how much dopamine do you think we “avoid” if we know it’s our crack or our kryptonite? Where do you think the balance is to break bad habits? I realize everyone is personal. I’m curious on your thoughts because you’re dialed into pleasure seeking habits, as am I. Thank you. And for the love of God, please do not take away my weekly pods. Eileen.” Pods aren’t going anywhere, Eileen. That’s the good news. So basically…

0:20:27.8 Jordan Syatt: Super nice message. Those are really sweet. Thank you so much. That was really kind.

0:20:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s a great question. I don’t know the answer, but what is the balance of pleasure seeking behavior in life? And we can think of it as a continuum from heroin junkie is probably max pleasure seeking. It doesn’t look like it, but physiologically, that’s what’s going on. All the way to, I don’t know, like a monk or someone who’s extremely stoic, somebody who is not partaking in any pleasure seeking behavior.

0:21:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Man, there’s a lot to be broken down here, and I might say some things that I don’t even agree with. So we’ll see where this goes. But I think it really depends on how it’s impacting other areas of your life. So, for example, I don’t know anyone who impedes their life based on listening to podcasts. I don’t know anyone who’s like, oh, man, listening to podcasts has destroyed my life. I’m no longer paying attention to my spouse. I’m not paying attention to my kids because I’m listening to podcasts. I don’t know if that’s ever happened. But I do know there are people who are stuck on their phones, scrolling in front of their kids, who are not listening to their spouse, who are not working out, who are not… Because they’re just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. And I think it’s because it’s these quick hits, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. You want new content, new content, new content, new content.

0:22:04.5 Jordan Syatt: Whereas a podcast, it’s like a nice, wonderful conversation that you can be a part of, that you can also put down and pause. And you’re not just stuck ruining your life and not paying attention to other things in your life because of podcasts. I haven’t heard of that. But I have heard of it with TikTok, Instagram and YouTube and Shorts especially, more than anything. But then we could get into other topics of, like, other people who are not engaging in any pleasure seeking behavior. I don’t know if that exists. Like, even like a monk, for example, I feel like the reason a monk would do what they do is because it brings them pleasure in some way, even though it’s not like… You know what I mean? A monk, it brings them some level of pleasure in order to do that. It brings them pleasure to not go to other sources of pleasure. So I don’t know if there’s ever…

0:23:00.8 Mike Vacanti: This reminds me of the time when there was someone who was making content, and I don’t know if this analogy is going to land, but basically I said something to the effect of he isn’t trying to say things for engagement. He’s actually trying to say what’s true. And you were like, that doesn’t exist. You’re like, everyone is crafting a message for engagement to some level.

0:23:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct.

0:23:32.8 Mike Vacanti: I think the first thing you said is absolutely true. And you just came up with it on the spot, which is amazing. But does the pleasure…

0:23:48.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m so tired, I don’t even remember what the first thing I said was. What did I just say?

0:23:51.0 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t either for a second, but I’m gonna repeat it right now ’cause it came back to me. I got so locked on that last little interaction. Does what you are doing, the behavior you’re partaking in, is it taking away from other areas of your life? And I think we could even steelman that with like, is the behavior preventing you from your values? Is it preventing you from being the type of person who you want to be? And that might be where, if it is, then you should take a look at it and maybe reduce the amount of it or cut cold turkey if it’s something that you can’t moderate. But I completely agree with you that listening to podcasts is absolutely okay. Like, there are these little pleasures in life that are not bad.

0:24:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:24:45.2 Mike Vacanti: And that can add joy and fulfillment and education and all of these things and make our lives more full as a result.

0:24:57.0 Jordan Syatt: I also look at, and this is completely unscientific. This is just how I’m thinking about it in this moment, where it’s like, let’s say we have like a dopamine meter. Okay? And we’re looking at not just how full the dopamine meter can get, but how quickly it can get full. So, like a podcast and an Instagram Reel might both fill up your dopamine meter, but one of them is gonna fill it up way more quickly and drain it way more quickly. So it goes up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, really feel like, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. Whereas with one hour long podcast, it might fill up your dopamine meter, but it will take the entire time. And then once it’s over, it’s a slow progression downwards.

0:25:47.6 Jordan Syatt: Like, it’s not like super fast and super slow. It’s a nice long progression over a period of time, sort of like reading a book, it takes a while. Whereas the short, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick hits, it literally might fill it all the way up to the same level, but drains it super fast, fills it super fast. Drains, drains, drains, fills, fills, fills. That I think also plays a role in the addictive nature of it.

0:26:09.8 Mike Vacanti: 100%. Yeah, you can think of it as a meter. You can think of it as a scale. A pain and pleasure weighted scale. And the more intense the pleasure is, the more time you’re gonna spend in pain after that pleasure. So if we throw a podcast barely on the pleasure side, then to the right of that, more pleasurable, we would throw short form vertical video, and to the right of that we could throw, I don’t know, like pornography, and to the right of that you could throw…

0:26:47.0 Jordan Syatt: Cocaine or whatever.

0:26:47.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, like you start getting into like drugs and substances that really ramp up dopamine. It’s interesting for sure. But let’s just…

0:27:00.0 Jordan Syatt: Keep listening to the pod. Keep listening to the pod, Eileen.

0:27:01.3 Mike Vacanti: Well, yeah, of course.

0:27:01.7 Jordan Syatt: We’re not going anywhere.

0:27:02.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. Oh, I saw this cool YouTube video. I think it was on the Los Angeles Chargers page, randomly popped up or it might have been the NFL page, I’m not sure. It was like a behind the scenes of everything that their dietitian does, their team dietitian. And it’s just like a six or seven minute video. And it was really interesting, actually. Two things that I took from it. One being the way he talks about food environment and how it’s directly the opposite of the way that fat loss coaches talk about food environment. If you think about a person who’s trying to lose weight, having an apple on the counter instead of some candy is gonna be net beneficial for them in the long run. Or keeping healthier foods around, crafting their food environment for less total caloric intake.

0:28:06.1 Mike Vacanti: This guy was talking about making sure that all of his athletes are properly hydrated, are getting enough calories, are getting enough nutrients, because under eating is a bigger problem for these professional athletes. And so he talks about using the space in the locker rooms to like lay out snacks and drinks and basically like take up as much visual space as possible so that these guys are more likely to just grab this, grab this, and has a ton of really good options around for them to be getting enough food in, essentially.

0:28:40.8 Jordan Syatt: Do you know what some of the options are? Like what foods they keep around? Or do they include that or no?

0:28:45.2 Mike Vacanti: They did. The one that’s standing out to me is actually the coach’s diet, which is not good at all. He’s like, when he gets off the bus, he likes chicken nuggets. At halftime, he eats a hot dog. He really likes Uncrustables. But it’s a combination…

0:29:03.3 Jordan Syatt: There’s the coach who’s not playing.

0:29:05.0 Mike Vacanti: Right. We can link the video, though, and people can check that out if they want to, because, yes, they are highlighting different foods on there.

0:29:15.7 Jordan Syatt: I’m wondering if there’s like, granola or like… I’m just wondering what they would put for someone who’s at the very least, not trying to lose weight, but also potentially even trying to gain it.

0:29:25.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, gain weight or just like, properly…

0:29:29.0 Jordan Syatt: Fuel performance.

0:29:29.9 Mike Vacanti: Exactly. And that was another interesting one. They run a, what’s called a sweat test, a sweat rate test in preseason, and basically figure out… I don’t even know how they do this or if it’s a legitimate test. I’d never heard of it before, but they’re seeing what an athlete’s sodium loss is per hour under certain conditions. And then each player has a card with that data on it, like, so and so loses 880 milligrams of sodium per hour. And so in their special drink that this guy’s making for him…

0:30:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Shut up.

0:30:11.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it’s like, okay, a game is three hours. I know I need this much in here for him to properly replenish over the course of the game to optimize performance. It was really cool, actually.

0:30:20.2 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s super cool. I also am so glad you’re bringing this up because the average individual is comparing themselves to elite athletes. And it’s like, this is such a great example of it’s like, not only do they have this information, but they have someone filling up that individual’s water bottle to specifically what that individual needs to optimize their… Like, it’s just, it’s a different level that people don’t know. And comparing yourself to elite athletes or elite body or anyone who this is their job is just so out… It’s apples to oranges.

0:31:00.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s their job, and they’re the best in the world at their job.

0:31:02.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. They beat so many other people…

0:31:06.0 Mike Vacanti: Everyone.

0:31:06.2 Jordan Syatt: Who are also really good to get to that level. Yeah.

0:31:09.3 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

0:31:09.7 Jordan Syatt: It’s such a good point. The genetic elite, yeah.

0:31:14.2 Mike Vacanti: Yes. Yeah, man. And you make a good point, which is, don’t compare yourself to them, and there’s no reason for…

0:31:25.7 Jordan Syatt: Doing what they do.

0:31:27.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, to match their… If you think something’s cool, you can take from it, but we don’t need to be matching their protocols.

0:31:32.5 Jordan Syatt: I always just thought when I saw on a football field and like the athletic trainers and stuff going out there giving the water bottle to their athlete, I just assumed everyone had the same water bottle. They were sharing it, whatever. It’s like, oh no. They individualize whose water bottle is whose, who needs to be drinking? It’s pretty crazy.

0:31:53.2 Mike Vacanti: There’s a new study, but I haven’t read it yet. So, we can wait on that one.

0:31:58.2 Jordan Syatt: I haven’t read this study. This is separate. I was just… One of my buddies was posting about it today. He’s not even in the fitness industry. He was posting about this study today, not fitness related at all, about divorce rates. Really interesting. I believe the study was done out of China from 2002-2022. And it was studying how China implemented a law that said before you complete a divorce, you have to have a 30 day waiting period. And divorce rates plummeted by 70%.

0:32:36.0 Mike Vacanti: Wow.

0:32:37.0 Jordan Syatt: Which is outrageous. And I haven’t read the study. I need to look into it. He posted some screenshots from the full text that I found very interesting. But when they implemented this 30 day waiting period, 70% drop in divorce rates. And basically what the researchers had concluded was that oftentimes what might be a mild event is people jump to conclusions and it leads to a big fight and then they make these quick decisions. This isn’t obviously talking about a divorce as a result of a major event or many major events in a long line, but making life changing decisions based on a potential overreaction to maybe what might have been a relatively mild situation that you could have handled through a cooling off period and then discussions thereafter, which I think has far reaching implications outside of marriage as well. But I did think that was very, very cool. Like, all right, you can do it, but you got to wait 30 days and then we decide. I thought that was really interesting.

0:33:44.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s wild. It makes sense though.

0:33:46.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it does.

0:33:47.7 Mike Vacanti: I can’t believe that they were allowed to get a divorce immediately in the first place. Like, in the US, is it state by state divorce law?

0:34:01.2 Jordan Syatt: I have no idea. I think I’m almost positive you could get a divorce. I’m sort of, I’m making it up. I don’t know.

0:34:07.1 Mike Vacanti: No. No, dude. There’s like a separation. It might be state by state. And so whatever I’m saying might only apply to one state or a handful of states, but I’m almost certain there’s like a legal separation period.

0:34:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, is there?

0:34:21.2 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

0:34:23.7 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. I didn’t know that.

0:34:26.2 Mike Vacanti: But I’m not an expert on this. I’m just…

0:34:27.4 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know. I’m going through my head because my aunt, who’s married to my uncle, before they got… They’ve been married for like 50 years and they have one of the best marriages I’ve ever seen in my life. Before she was married to my uncle, she had another marriage. And she always thought… She’s funny. She’s a very funny woman. And she’s like, she loves scotch. She’s funny. She’s hard. She’s a no bullshit kind of woman. And she would always say, now this is making sense, ’cause I always just thought you could just get a divorce whenever you wanted without any… But it makes sense now you’re saying it, ’cause she would always say, yeah, we got a Mexican divorce. And they literally went to Mexico because they didn’t… They weren’t fighting over property. They weren’t fighting. They were just like, listen, we just want to end it. We want it to be quick. Like, we just want it to be over. So I don’t know.

0:35:20.0 Jordan Syatt: She told me that they went to Mexico and got a divorce, and it was legal. I don’t know how it works, but then they were divorced. This is what I’ve been told since I was a kid. I’ve done zero fact checking on this and I want to ask her now. But that would be… It’s interesting. I don’t know how that works. I don’t know if that works over state lines or over like across countries. I don’t know how that works legally, but that’s what she said they did and they got legally divorced.

0:35:47.7 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. I’m curious to know that too.

0:35:49.2 Jordan Syatt: I used to like how in Vegas you can just do a shotgun wedding, do a shotgun divorce.

0:35:54.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but the contract is signed in the US, and honestly, I think it’s just…

0:36:00.0 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know how it works.

0:36:00.8 Mike Vacanti: State. I don’t know that there’s a federal aspect of a marriage contract, but that’s cool. Good for her and being in such a good relationship now.

0:36:12.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I mean, they have an incredible marriage now, but.

0:36:15.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, the cooling off period makes a lot of sense. And I think a lot of religions of all time forbid or placed a great number of restrictions around divorce, which is similar to that China study where you’re binding yourself to another person for life. Because there are gonna be times where you’re both like, this stinks.

0:36:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Fuck off.

0:36:51.0 Mike Vacanti: Like, what are we doing here? And over the course of a lifetime, I can’t even imagine, to be honest. But without the commitment of through thick and thin, rich or poor, till death do us part, you’re gonna want to… There will be times where you both question what’s going on, I would imagine. Cool. Cool study. My study was about protein. Not nearly as interesting, but I’m gonna read it first before we talk about that. Wanna fire up some Instagram questions?

0:37:26.0 Jordan Syatt: I did an overrated/underrated the other day. You want me to go through those?

0:37:29.4 Mike Vacanti: Sure.

0:37:30.1 Jordan Syatt: Ankle weights, overrated/underrated?

0:37:32.2 Mike Vacanti: Do people like ankle weights?

0:37:33.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, a lot of people like ankle weights.

0:37:35.2 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna go off of my understanding, which is no one ever talks about ankle weights, and so I’m gonna say they are just barely underrated?

0:37:41.0 Jordan Syatt: You’re off scrolling that’s why.

0:37:43.8 Mike Vacanti: I just scroll different things than you.

0:37:44.8 Jordan Syatt: You think they’re underrated?

0:37:45.8 Mike Vacanti: Well, if they are a big thing, then they’re not, then they’re overrated if they’re a big thing. They have their use cases.

0:37:51.8 Jordan Syatt: When would you use ankle weights?

0:37:55.5 Mike Vacanti: There are some, like, more beginner variation hip flexor strengthening exercises that I might use ankle weights for.

0:38:07.3 Jordan Syatt: The bigness, the bigness, the big use of these, the big one is many people use them for walking. What do you think? Ankle weights for walking?

0:38:17.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s not something I’ve given a great deal of thought to. Mechanically, I don’t see… Like, if you want to load your walking just to make it more difficult and get your heart rate up more than just walking with your body weight, I’d much prefer a weighted vest. Like mechanically thinking about adding a weight to your ankle and the changes in like muscular recruitment and your gait and your stride, I’ve never tried it myself and I don’t… Haven’t ever thought about it, but it doesn’t sound like the greatest idea to me. Why are people loading up their ankles to walk?

0:38:58.9 Jordan Syatt: There are many reasons. Listen, this isn’t a new thing. This has been around since way before we were born where they’ve done ankle weights for walking and for Jazzercise and all that stuff.

0:39:09.4 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know about Jazzercise. Okay, that’s why.

0:39:12.8 Jordan Syatt: But like, I think, so weighted vests are becoming very popular. Like super, super popular. And I think then as a result, people are like, oh, well, I’ll do ankle weights too. And the benefits of a weighted vest or weighted walking with the bone density, especially for women as they age, like, it’s great. I agree with you. If you’re gonna weight your walking, just wear a vest for a number of reasons. But I think the ankle weights, I can… I’m 100% with you on literally everything you said. I think they’re great for hip flexor drills. I think they can be great for even some hamstring drills, for hip mobility stuff.

0:39:48.5 Mike Vacanti: Probably some glute stuff. Like not as effective as many…

0:39:51.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, maybe higher adaptation or whatever.

0:39:53.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah, you could…

0:39:54.6 Jordan Syatt: But from a walking perspective, in a cardio perspective, I’d rather you just wear a vest, because if you… The issue for me is the repeated exposure with the ankle weight is a lot of stress on the hip flexors. I see strains happening. I see potential knee issues. I see it changing your gait. I see some issues with it happening where you can actually load more weight into a vest and get a greater metabolic effect, greater bone density effect with less risk. So I think that’s… I think they’re great. And I use ankle weights for some hip flexor work and mobility work. But from a walking perspective, I think it’s overrated for sure.

0:40:33.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m trying to think about the difference in bone density improvement with a load at chest level versus your ankles, even if you…

0:40:46.3 Jordan Syatt: I would imagine it’s just total load.

0:40:48.8 Mike Vacanti: You think so?

0:40:49.5 Jordan Syatt: Less about where it’s placed. Yeah, I would imagine, like you take someone who’s seriously overweight but they still walk, their bone density is through the fucking roof.

0:40:58.5 Mike Vacanti: No, I agree, but they also…

0:41:00.4 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s more about the total load on your body, less about it being centered around your legs, ’cause you’re still supporting it. You’re still supporting the weight on your legs.

0:41:08.8 Mike Vacanti: I’d have to think about that.

0:41:11.7 Jordan Syatt: Training to muscle failure for hypertrophy.

0:41:14.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, in one camp, it’s probably a little overrated. In the other camp it’s a little underrated.

0:41:19.3 Jordan Syatt: You want to expand on that one?

0:41:20.7 Mike Vacanti: Some people think that you have to take most sets to RPE 9, 10 to maximize hypertrophy, whereas others think that that creates too much fatigue and you’re better off spending more time in the 7-8 RPE range for the majority of your working sets and that that will create more hypertrophy. So, for the people who take everything to failure, it’s probably a little overrated. And for the people who don’t take anything to failure, I think there’s benefit for gaining muscle to taking some sets of failure sometimes.

0:41:55.0 Jordan Syatt: I think for beginners into like early intermediate, training to failure is overrated. You just don’t need it.

0:42:03.6 Mike Vacanti: Especially beginners.

0:42:05.1 Jordan Syatt: Especially beginner. And then for more advanced, the more advanced you get, the more difficult it becomes to put on muscle, the higher intense need, I would say it becomes more underrated, where it’s like you’ve really got to put more effort into to get more muscle.

0:42:21.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s a good way to look at it.

0:42:22.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And the issue is, I think that I see a lot of beginners being influenced by social media posts being like, you gotta train a failure. And I’m like, all right, but you’re literally four weeks in. You don’t need to be going to failure. Like you could literally train at a 6 out of 10 intensity and you’re gonna get stronger and build muscle and you’re not gonna be as sore and you’ll have more… You’re gonna have more longevity in this thing. You’re gonna be less likely to injure yourself. When you’re more advanced, you’ve got your training down, you’ve got your technique down, yeah, go to failure more often if you’d like ’cause you know how to modulate yourself. But a beginner doesn’t need it. So, that’s how I’d classify it.

0:42:57.8 Mike Vacanti: I like it.

0:42:58.9 Jordan Syatt: Overrated/underrated, listening to your gut, intuition?

0:43:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Listening to your gut, at a high level, is underrated. I think we live in a left brain dominated society that has a lot of brain activity and less like gut/ heart. But at the same time, there are a lot of decisions where you’re not trusting your gut, you’re not trusting your intuition. Like intuitive eating comes to mind as something where like, no, your intuition is wrong about the whole case of Oreos. So, in some instances, look, the very best and most impactful decisions that I ever made were the ones where my brain, society, social norms, everyone I talked to told me to do one thing and I did the exact opposite. And because I had such a strong pull in my gut that I couldn’t rationalize, that I acted on that behavior. I took the “Kierkegaardian” leap of faith of not knowing what comes next, but I’m gonna move in that direction anyway. And so, for decisions like that, I would say that intuition is underrated.

0:44:27.6 Jordan Syatt: I’m gonna use this to lead into a separate topic specifically around intuitive eating, since you brought it up, ’cause I think it’s really, it’s helpful. I would argue that the people who are saying that they’re intuitively eating and also eating the entire box of Oreos, if they were objectively asked, do you think this is the right choice to be eating this entire box of Oreos? If they were objective, they’d be like, no, I don’t think this is the right choice, but I’m letting my emotions take control of me, and/or I’m listening to what other people are saying who are telling me it’s okay and they’re enabling me and then I’m falling prey to that. And the reason I would say this is because the Health at Every Size movement, we’ve seen it almost entirely drop off. GLP-1s have almost entirely killed…

0:45:28.0 Mike Vacanti: Killed Health at Every Size.

0:45:29.0 Jordan Syatt: The Health at Every Size movement.

0:45:30.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:45:31.8 Jordan Syatt: All the people. Not all the people. A huge amount of the people who were vehemently Health at Every Size, Health at Every Size, Health at Every Size, now all of a sudden have lost 100 pounds on GLP-1s. And by the way, I’m a huge supporter of GLP-1s. I’m not hating on it. But it goes to show that those people didn’t actually believe what they were saying. And so, if we’re actually talking about intuition, which I completely agree with you on everything, I think the person who’s eating that whole box of Oreos intuitively knows that they’re making the wrong choice. They’re just doing it because they’ve been enabled to believe that either they’re not gonna be able to make the right choice no matter what. Like they just, they’ve been enabled to believe that they can’t do it. They’ve been enabled to believe that this is the choice they should be making.

0:46:21.2 Jordan Syatt: But if you actually sit them down and have a conversation, they would be like, I hate that I’m making this choice. I know I shouldn’t be making this choice. This is the wrong choice, but I keep doing it. That’s what I would imagine. Which goes to the point of listening to your gut and not allowing outside voices to enable you, to convince you. I think this is true in fitness, I think it’s true in relationships. I know many relationships have been destroyed because of outside influences, people like Baelish type people, talking in their ears, trying to…

0:46:52.9 Mike Vacanti: Game of Thrones reference right there.

0:46:54.8 Jordan Syatt: You’re right, just whispering in your ears, like trying to convince you that your spouse is evil, or they’re doing it wrong. When it’s like, well, no, you know your spouse, you know they’re doing the right thing, but you’ve got people whispering in your ear that are like putting… It happens all the time. I think that the majority of the time, the feeling that you have in your gut that is true and real regardless of what other people are saying, that is often against what other people are saying, is a really, really important voice to listen to.

0:47:28.2 Mike Vacanti: I love that. That’s a take that I hadn’t heard or considered that I really like. And I think what we can call your intuition there, when you said tell this person to ask themselves, is that what you should do? Is eating the whole thing of Oreos what you should do? You’re asking them to consult with their conscience. And we can develop or like blunt our conscience through life, through behaviors, through good or bad habits, through willful blindness, through continually not listening to your conscience until that voice gets quieter and quieter and quieter, or continuing to listen to it and it gets stronger and stronger and stronger. But you make a really good point of have that person ask themselves, is this right? Is this what you should… Is this the correct decision? And most of them are gonna say, no, it’s not.

0:48:31.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, they’re not happy about it.

0:48:33.4 Mike Vacanti: Now, does that mean that take a beginner who’s never counted calories before and have them intuitively eat? Is it a good strategy?

0:48:40.2 Jordan Syatt: No. Terrible.

0:48:40.8 Mike Vacanti: No. But I actually think you made one of the better arguments for intuitive eating that I’ve heard just now with that.

0:48:48.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting.

0:48:49.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, which is, it can work to a degree if you are actually listening to your gut and acting on it, and you need the education on like…

0:48:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you have to.

0:49:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Because without the education, your intuition isn’t gonna know…

0:49:03.6 Jordan Syatt: You can’t intuitively eat protein if you’ve never… If you don’t know what foods are high in protein. You just can’t.

0:49:09.6 Mike Vacanti: Correct.

0:49:09.9 Jordan Syatt: You can’t intuitively know how many calories you need. You can’t intuitively know that, especially based on how we’re designed. It’s like we’re designed to want to eat more and more and more. That’s…

0:49:21.8 Mike Vacanti: To need.

0:49:22.2 Jordan Syatt: To need, yeah.

0:49:22.6 Mike Vacanti: To need to eat more and more based on all of history.

0:49:25.2 Jordan Syatt: How we’ve adapted with famine and everything. Yeah.

0:49:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Food environment forever. And now, just in the last however many years, we have complete excess and abundance of these delicious high calorie foods. It’s more, more, more. Winter is coming. I need to store some fat. It’s like, no, the supermarkets are open in the winter. You don’t.

0:49:47.1 Jordan Syatt: The supermarkets are open. You have Uber Eats deliver it to you. Yeah, or you drive there in your heated vehicle. Nick Reese asked if the Kansas City Chiefs are overrated or underrated?

0:50:00.4 Mike Vacanti: What’s up, Nick? I think we have to say that the Chiefs are underrated. Basically all of a huge percentage of America dislikes the Chiefs right now, and that always happens. Right at the end of the Patriots dynasty, everyone hated on the Patriots. Patriots were a little different, the cheating stuff, et cetera. But yeah, the Chiefs are certainly underrated. I mean, Patrick…

0:50:29.8 Jordan Syatt: Did the Patriots cheat?

0:50:31.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. Deflategate, Spygate. They had all these gates. I don’t actually… I’m not in the weeds to that level. Gary would say, yes, I believe.

0:50:40.1 Jordan Syatt: Gary hates the Patriots.

0:50:41.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, Jets fan. I mean, dude, Patrick Mahomes has been to… I don’t know the exact stat, but in his career, I think he was drafted in 2017, didn’t play his rookie year. So like 2018 on, he’s been to the AFC Championship like every single year except maybe one or maybe every year. It’s either every year or every year except one, and he’s been to the Super Bowl the majority of those years.

0:51:09.4 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:51:09.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I mean, they could potentially three-peat against the Eagles here in…

0:51:15.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, against the Eagles?

0:51:16.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, the Chiefs and the Eagles. They do it with like a rotating cast of characters. Their by far wide receiver one got hurt in week four of this season. It’s just like this next man up mentality of whoever’s there we’re gonna use them. Yeah, Andy Reid’s an incredible coach. There’s a thing in life where we love to cheer for the underdog, and then if someone’s too good for too long, we like to tear them down.

0:51:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:51:45.5 Mike Vacanti: We see this with individual personalities on social media.

0:51:47.6 Jordan Syatt: All the time.

0:51:48.0 Mike Vacanti: And by the way, if they get torn down long enough and they stick with it, usually…

0:51:52.8 Jordan Syatt: They raise up.

0:51:53.0 Mike Vacanti: People start to love them again. Yeah, yeah. And so that’s what I’m seeing with the Chiefs right now.

0:51:57.7 Jordan Syatt: I’ve got literally no input on that whatsoever. Calf raises.

0:52:01.8 Mike Vacanti: I think calf raises are… Do people still do calf raises? Do people…

0:52:07.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, people who want bigger calves.

0:52:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but I’ve seen so many people do years of calf training and see it… Like calves are a muscle group where there’s so much genetic diversity to the ability to build calves.

0:52:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’ve seen people who train calves for years and they do it well, like high intensity, they do it properly and almost no change. And I’ve seen people who’ve literally never done a calf raise and never worked out in their entire life and had the most monstrous calves I’ve ever… Dude, I forget the teacher’s name in high school. This guy never lifted a weight ever, and he was known around school. Like you could see his calves busting through his sweatpants. Like they were hams. It was ins. And we were like, do you train? He was like, nope. But you know what he did? He walked on his toes.

0:53:05.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, interesting.

0:53:06.8 Jordan Syatt: The way he walked, like it wasn’t deliberate. That was just his gait. He was just like a toe walker. He was like, pop, pop, pop, pop, and he’s huge.

0:53:14.4 Mike Vacanti: Was he a bigger guy?

0:53:15.5 Jordan Syatt: He’s huge. He’s a big dude. Yeah, big dude.

0:53:17.1 Mike Vacanti: So he’s a big dude who basically…

0:53:19.1 Jordan Syatt: Doing calf raises on every rep.

0:53:21.0 Mike Vacanti: His whole life.

0:53:21.2 Jordan Syatt: Every step.

0:53:22.4 Mike Vacanti: Forever. He’s a volume lifter.

0:53:26.8 Jordan Syatt: He’s a volume… It’s exactly right. Yeah, the biggest calves you’ve ever seen. Bigger than my head.

0:53:35.1 Mike Vacanti: You got to get pictures of these.

0:53:36.5 Jordan Syatt: And this pop, pop, pop all through the hallway. Pop, pop, pop, yeah.

0:53:39.0 Mike Vacanti: Good for him.

0:53:40.4 Jordan Syatt: Zercher deadlifts or Zercher squats, either one.

0:53:44.6 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I was like, how do you do that?

0:53:46.6 Jordan Syatt: People do Zercher deadlifts. It’s a big thing recently.

0:53:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Really?

0:53:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s a big thing. You know who does it super well is Alec Blenis. I’ve brought him up a couple of times. He’s a coach for Alex Viada. When you have insane mobility, and also coupled with really super strong, they literally like straight leg fucking deadlift.

0:54:05.0 Mike Vacanti: What?

0:54:05.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s crazy. It’s insane.

0:54:07.3 Mike Vacanti: So conventional?

0:54:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:54:10.8 Mike Vacanti: Not elevated?

0:54:12.3 Jordan Syatt: No. It’s incredible.

0:54:15.3 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, no.

0:54:16.3 Jordan Syatt: You want me to show you video?

0:54:17.2 Mike Vacanti: I gotta see a video.

0:54:18.3 Jordan Syatt: I’ll show you a video. One sec.

0:54:18.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, let me try and ask you if this is actually how it’s done first. So this guy’s got shoulder width stance, he’s got a bar with normal size plates on it, and he is getting in a proper starting position with the bar like under his forearm, it’s like in his elbows?

0:54:34.3 Jordan Syatt: He’s actually doing it on a deficit. He’s doing it on a deficit here, which is pretty crazy. Check this out. If you’re watching YouTube, you’re watching it. Alec is a beast, bro. Straight leg, completely straight. Tell me that’s not impressive. Are you there?

0:55:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m there. I’m in shock.

0:55:01.4 Jordan Syatt: Tell me that’s not impressive. Come on. That’s what that was at 255 or something like? That’s crazy. Straight leg deficit deadlift in a Zercher position. That’s crazy.

0:55:15.0 Mike Vacanti: What’s the real life application?

0:55:18.0 Jordan Syatt: I mean, he gets featured on a podcast talking about how fucking cool it is and how strong he is.

0:55:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Okay. Cool. Cool. Then it’s…

0:55:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Fucking awesome.

0:55:27.5 Mike Vacanti: It would be very hard to do.

0:55:29.6 Jordan Syatt: I just think it’s sick. Like it’s a really cool expression of strength and mobility. And also holding that much weight in the crux of your arms is just outrageously painful, so.

0:55:41.7 Mike Vacanti: I would be curious what percentage of the population could go from where they’re currently at to doing that without spending like substantial amounts of time injured.

0:55:56.9 Jordan Syatt: Injured?

0:55:57.0 Mike Vacanti: And that’s not a criticism on him doing it. He clearly can.

0:55:58.6 Jordan Syatt: You mean like a back injury type thing?

0:56:02.5 Mike Vacanti: Anything.

0:56:03.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I don’t think I would be… I was with you. I think it takes a lot of time, and he’s open… He trains a lot, like hours and hours and hours and hours. He’s very open about how much time he spends training. That’s what I think is the biggest thing, is how much time do you have to spend training? For the person who’s working out three times a week for 30-60 minutes per session and who maybe is definitely not genetically gifted, I don’t even know if that’s possible over, I don’t know, a long period of time. But for someone who’s spending a huge portion of their day, essentially daily or almost daily working out, I see it being realistic, but that’s not who we’re talking to. That’s not the vast majority of people.

0:56:52.9 Mike Vacanti: I guess what I’m saying is the people who I see striving for incredible feats of mobility end up getting way more banged up in their training for it than the average person would think someone doing “flexibility and mobility” training gets banged up.

0:57:13.1 Jordan Syatt: I agree. I would say that carries over to any individual who’s trying to achieve any elite high level performance, whether it’s mobility, whether it’s strength, whether it’s any… When you’re chasing an elite level goal that most people never achieve, you will have more injuries.

0:57:31.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:57:32.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. You will, for sure. I completely agree with that.

0:57:35.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And for the same reason that I would tell someone who scrolls across social media and sees whatever, an 800 pound squat and they want to do that too, or they see a movement like that, like…

0:57:48.4 Jordan Syatt: I think the answer, is for most people, it’s overrated. For most people it is. Like for the average individual, it’s overrated.

0:57:55.8 Mike Vacanti: Unless you want us to…

0:57:57.0 Jordan Syatt: Unless you want to do that.

0:57:57.6 Mike Vacanti: Talk about it on the podcast, yeah. Or there’s joy in pursuing…

0:58:02.0 Jordan Syatt: I enjoy it. I personally like it and I think it’s fun, but I can also simultaneously, like, I would never ever put that in the inner circle.

0:58:12.8 Mike Vacanti:

0:58:13.0 Jordan Syatt: And I would never put it into anyone’s program unless they explicitly asked for it, like ever. Which is, that’s the answer, it’s overrated from that perspective. But it is also really cool.

0:58:25.2 Mike Vacanti: And we gotta go. We got a mentorship Q&A right now. Actually, I don’t even… I’m not even gonna ask it, but I’ll say, having never heard of a Zercher deadlift until just now, I would say that the main benefit is, if you think it’s really cool, then it’s really cool.

0:58:43.0 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yeah, it’s a really cool feat of strength.

0:58:48.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know what that’s… And flexibility.

0:58:50.3 Jordan Syatt: And flexibility, yes.

0:58:53.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. To each their own. I see a lot of people who are like, will see cool gimmicky exercises on social media and want to do that and replace things that are beneficial for more gimmicky stuff. I mean, we all do. And I’m not calling that gimmicky, but for most people, it’s overrated.

0:59:25.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, agree. For most people it’s overrated. You don’t need it. But if you’re already at a higher level and you’re looking for something new and a new challenge to try and hit, I think it’s a fun thing to do. But for the average individual looking to improve their strength and their health and their fitness, there’s no question. Of course, overrated.

0:59:45.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I also… We gotta do, go to the Q&A. I think that, on a philosophical level, doing something because you want praise from others is probably not a good reason to. And I don’t know this person, but if we’re talking about like doing it because… I don’t know. If it’s for the love of the game, I like it. I’ll leave it at that.

1:00:10.1 Jordan Syatt: So I don’t know him well personally. We’ve spoken a few times. I have a feeling he just does it for the love of the game. I mean, this guy’s a freak of nature. He just does crazy shit. But I’m also sure, as someone who also posts stuff on social media and also loves positive feedback, I’m sure that’s part of it as well. Like, logically, of course, we all love getting positive feedback, but I would imagine he just does it for the love of the game.

1:00:31.7 Mike Vacanti: All right.

1:00:32.1 Jordan Syatt: That’s it.

1:00:32.8 Mike Vacanti: Sign us off.

1:00:33.6 Jordan Syatt: Thanks for the… Thanks for listening. We appreciate you. Have an amazing rest of your week. We’ll talk to you next week.