Episode 214: The Instagram Growth Guide

0:00:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Hello Jordan.

0:00:00.2 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:13.2 Mike Vacanti: Back on Instagram! 30-some days. 37 days—I don’t know the exact number—off, and I’m back on.

0:00:21.1 Jordan Syatt: You’re back on. No scrolling though, right?

0:00:23.3 Mike Vacanti: No, no doom scrolling, but just poking around and. Yeah, I mean, you’re scrolling a little. Not like clicking a video and then just going into the ether for two hours.

0:00:32.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:00:34.7 Mike Vacanti: It’s actually really interesting. The two biggest things I noticed right out the gate were, one, it’s so much less negative than Twitter.

0:00:44.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Yep.

0:00:45.6 Mike Vacanti: Like, Twitter’s just angry and on edge. And two, something I like about Instagram that I didn’t realize was, was the number of people who I engage with in the DMs that are like, my friend that I grew up with in my neighborhood who sent me a video that I would have never saw, or there were probably like 10 or 15 of those where I’m like, all right, I should probably be in here.

0:01:15.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. You want to be back on Instagram?

0:01:18.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.

0:01:20.2 Jordan Syatt: Nice. As a consumer and as like an interactive with like, your locale. Not like, as a creator.

0:01:31.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s what I meant in that sentence. Yes. But you never, never know really, do you? You just never know.

0:01:38.0 Jordan Syatt: You never know when Mike is just going to hop back on the creation train. Hundred videos in it… 100 days in a row. Content creation.

0:01:46.4 Mike Vacanti: Dude, you don’t know when Jordan’s going to do it. Actually do.

0:01:49.9 Jordan Syatt: Yes, you do. Basically every day.

0:01:54.8 Mike Vacanti: Bro. Daily uploads by Jordan Syatt on the @personaltrainerpodcast Instagram page.

0:02:01.7 Jordan Syatt: Well, that was the first thing you noticed on Instagram. You were like, bro, two posts in all of February. What the fuck?

0:02:10.8 Mike Vacanti: Not all of February to date.

0:02:13.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, as of that now I’ve been posting daily, so. Yeah.

0:02:16.6 Mike Vacanti: How does it feel?

0:02:17.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it feels great. I love posting on that page. It’s good. Yeah. Yeah. Very little engagement.

0:02:27.3 Mike Vacanti: And that’s why you like posting on that page.

0:02:32.8 Jordan Syatt: I can post on there and there’s going to be no arguments. The little you get is just positive. It’s like, I love this. This is the best.

0:02:38.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:02:40.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I like it a lot.

0:02:42.1 Mike Vacanti: Good, bro. So daily until 2033?

0:02:48.5 Jordan Syatt: Daily until death, dude.

0:02:51.0 Mike Vacanti: No, I’m not going to make you commit to that here, but daily for a decade seems more reasonable.

0:02:56.8 Jordan Syatt: At least. At least.

0:03:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Bro, how’s the new house?

0:03:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Bro, it’s good, man. It’s a house, you know. You’re going to be here in a few days. Oh, we’ve been delayed on the blackout curtains, by the way, just so you know. So I’ve been telling my wife we need to get some off Amazon because Mike is going to be here soon, so.

0:03:18.0 Mike Vacanti: You’re the best.

0:03:19.2 Jordan Syatt: We’re going to get some… We’re going to make sure that you’re covered. Because I was like, if they’re not here, Mike isn’t staying here. I would try to help.

0:03:30.5 Mike Vacanti: Honestly, I probably would, because your previous… Not your previous place, your place when you were in downtown. You know, downtown is just lit up compared to suburbs, compared to further away from downtown.

0:03:45.2 Jordan Syatt: And we’re putting you in the darkest room in the house, too. So.

0:03:48.0 Mike Vacanti: So what a guy. What hosts? I can’t wait.

0:03:51.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah, it’s good, it’s good. We got a little swing set set up for my daughters, and my oldest just loves it. Just obsessed. And Curtis loves the yard. He’s just running around. You know what sod is? Do you know what sod is? So we laid down all this sod and we ripped a bunch of it up, which was great.

0:04:13.7 Mike Vacanti: And you can walk on it right away, right after they lay it.

0:04:18.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah, yeah.

0:04:19.9 Mike Vacanti: Nice.

0:04:20.3 Jordan Syatt: I mean, I have been.

0:04:23.4 Mike Vacanti: They didn’t give you any instruction. I’m sure you’re fine then.

0:04:26.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, no one told me not to, so. Been walking on it, playing soccer with him and got the rock wall set up, which is really fun. Very, very cool.

0:04:34.6 Mike Vacanti: Nice.

0:04:35.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, man. It’s good. It’s good.

0:04:36.9 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.

0:04:37.6 Jordan Syatt: And then you’re going to be here next week. We’re filming the Instagram growth guide.

0:04:41.1 Mike Vacanti: You’re filming the Instagram growth guide. I’m hanging out.

0:04:43.8 Jordan Syatt: We. We are filming the Instagram growth guide.

0:04:46.6 Mike Vacanti: I mean, I’ll be there.

0:04:48.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s right.

0:04:51.2 Mike Vacanti: My contribution on Instagram is not. I’m six years removed from social media. Jordan.

0:05:00.2 Jordan Syatt: I get it.

0:05:00.9 Mike Vacanti: In fairness, when we started the mentorship, you made the Instagram growth guide and I made the coach’s guide for nutrition.

0:05:07.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Correct. Yeah. Now, just the landscape. The landscape for nutrition hasn’t changed, and the landscape for Instagram has radically changed. So it needs a real update. It’s funny all of the basic nutritional foundations still hold true, and all of the… I will say the basic foundations of Instagram hold true in terms of… There are some things in the guide that will stay the same, but those are things that are just basic fundamental communication, content creation, understanding, attention. That’s like the principles. The foundations that stays the same in the same way nutrition does. But the delivery system, the method of transportation, the creation process, the editing, the strategy behind it has changed. It’s flipped on its head. It is wildly different than it was six years ago.

0:06:08.5 Mike Vacanti: And different than it was six months ago, even, it seems, or six to 18 months ago, I guess. Just the…

0:06:15.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s changing constantly. It’s rapidly changing all the time. And there’s this guy. I’m not going to say his name. I bet a lot of people know who it is. He’s like, I don’t know if he’s the CEO of Instagram. He’s like one of the main guys, you know who I’m talking about.

0:06:31.5 Mike Vacanti: I do, I do.

0:06:33.0 Jordan Syatt: He comes on Instagram and he gives tips on how to use Instagram, and I think he either is lying or literally has no clue what the fuck he’s talking about.

0:06:49.5 Mike Vacanti: Really?

0:06:50.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:06:50.6 Mike Vacanti: What are a couple of the things that he said?

0:06:53.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, so for example, you learn things from actually using the platform more than just being told about it, or I think he’s going based off of what his intuition might tell him rather than based off of actually using the platform. And the difference with him is the reason his platform grew is because he’s so big within Instagram and so people have followed him because they want to know what’s going on with Instagram and he’s the one running it, not because has organically built this audience based off of something unique that is whether it’s anything, whether it’s carpentry, whether it’s being a coach, whatever it is. Like, there are people who build their audience because they’re really good at what they do, not because of people are using his platform and they want to know how to better use his platform or they want to. Who knows? I’m sure many people follow him because they want the hopes of getting to know him and who knows, being favored by him, whatever it is. One example, this is one of many, is he answered a question that said if you want to get more reach on your post, you should share it on your stories, which logically would make sense.

0:08:00.1 Jordan Syatt: Logically, it would make sense that if you want your post to get more reach, you put it on your stories so more people will see it. Dude, I’ve done this. I’ve tested this hundreds of times. Every time I share a post of mine, from my feed to my story, number one, it down regulates my story so my story gets fewer views.

0:08:20.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s worse story content.

0:08:21.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s worse story content. And the number of people who actually click the post from your story to your feed is minuscule. So it’s actually worse to share a story from your feed onto your… Share a post from your feed onto your story. It’s actually, you get worse engagement overall. And he said, no, if you want to increase it, you do that. I’m like, okay, you’re just making this up based on what you think it should be. Which I agree. I think it should be that. But practically that’s not the case. And it’s interesting to go into his comment section because he’s always talking about these are ways to get more engagement. Da, da. And the comments are filled with people like, just let the people who followed me see my content more. Like, that’s all we want. Just go back to… If they hit follow, show them my content. Like, I don’t want to play this fucking game.

0:09:10.2 Mike Vacanti: The Instagram has given the consumer that option.

0:09:14.0 Jordan Syatt: I still don’t… I don’t think they have. I don’t. Because I’ve even turned off posts from people that I’m not following, and I still get them.

0:09:22.6 Mike Vacanti: Brother, brother. If you click the Instagram, like on the top left, it says the words Instagram.

0:09:29.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And if you scroll down your feed. Yep.

0:09:32.3 Mike Vacanti: And then it right there, it says following or Favorites, you can just click following and you get a feed of only people you follow.

0:09:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Correct. That’s true. But as soon as you click a video and then you scroll down, now you’re in the ether again. You don’t only get who you’re following. You jump right back into the Chatroulette type. All right, whoever. We’re going to get. We’re going to get.

0:09:52.9 Mike Vacanti: Chatroulette. What a throwback. Nope, These are all people I follow.

0:10:00.9 Jordan Syatt: Hold on, let me see.

0:10:01.5 Mike Vacanti: Your point stands in that Instagram prioritizes the “for you feed.”

0:10:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Correct.

0:10:09.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s the main feed. With their goal being maximize minutes on app per day.

0:10:18.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Correct.

0:10:19.4 Mike Vacanti: But, yeah, as someone who has their business on Instagram, obviously you would prefer if more of your followers saw your posts. That’s for sure.

0:10:31.1 Jordan Syatt: Correct. So, yeah, man, big changes coming to Instagram growth guide. Going to show a lot of how I shoot my own videos. ‘Cause I do everything for my Instagram. It’s all on my phone. Like, I just do it myself. So I’m going to show how I do it. I’m going to show how I film it. The different takes that I’ll do the editing portion of it, the content creation strategy side, how I come up with ideas, I’m going to show all of it. So I think it’s going to be very helpful in the new Instagram landscape.

0:11:02.5 Mike Vacanti: I love it. I love it. And the way that the guide sits now, there’s… What were there eight videos in the first edition?

0:11:11.8 Jordan Syatt: Something like that. Yeah.

0:11:13.8 Mike Vacanti: And so many of them will get replaced. But then even going forward six months or 12 months down the road, if one or two things have changed, we can just swap those out, correct?

0:11:23.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly.

0:11:24.8 Mike Vacanti: We got a system. Yeah, I’m excited. What else, I feel like this is a common question we get, and this is a real Jordan question, but what are some more of the big changes that you’ve seen on Instagram? And I guess what are… For someone who wants to grow their audience, who’s in the fitness space or an online fitness coach, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you’re seeing? What should people be doing differently?

0:11:54.0 Jordan Syatt: You know, it’s really interesting. So this is… When I grew my audience, when I started to grow it, when it started to really take off in 2017, when it really started to go a little bit crazy, it was really built on infographics, which the interesting thing about infographics is they’re inherently a little bit more boring. There’s not really personality. It was purely education to the point of, here’s a simple, easy way to visualize this message, and that was it. And it was things that were easy to look at, easy to share, easy to screenshot. You got all the information you needed. Now, that doesn’t work nearly as well. And I think the major reason is because the knowledge back then, it was so much less common. So few people knew that stuff. And the infographics really distributed that knowledge pretty rapidly to a huge amount of people.

0:13:06.7 Jordan Syatt: So I think it was novel at that time. But now intermittent fasting and calorie counting and all these things, they’re not novel anymore. To some people they are. But so many people now know them, they’re relatively common. Even you go into a regular bookstore nowadays, you see these titles and terms everywhere. Like, even a cousin of mine will be like, oh, I’m doing intermittent fasting. I’m like, that didn’t happen 10 years ago. 10 years ago it was like, people were like, are you sure you want to be doing that? Like, that sounds dangerous type thing. Now it’s not about as much about the… Here’s what I’m trying to say now, you need to have, I think it’s important to have more of a personality. I think your own personality needs to shine through because if it is a little bit more bland, if it is a little bit more, if it’s just information based, without any personality to come with it, it becomes very difficult to connect with you. And in a world in which there are so many people putting out so much of the same or similar content, you need a way to stand out. And before the way to stand out was just through education, just through that. And there are still ways to do that. But in order to stand out with education, you’ve got to be saying things that the vast majority of people don’t know.

0:14:36.9 Jordan Syatt: Which is why, for example, I mean one of the reasons like there’s a guy named Dr. Idz who I think is really good, like he’s really good at referencing research and putting out a lot of science based information that most people don’t know or don’t really have full access to our understanding. Layne Norton is another example though Layne is also a little bit more, he has a good personality with it too, but also like Layne, Dr. Idz, there are some food scientists out there who have access to very high level knowledge that the vast majority of us don’t. And so I think that’s their, what allows them to stand out. But for most of us who are putting out stuff with everyday individual, you don’t need to be putting out that level of scientific research based content, but you do need to have some level of personality. You do need to give them a reason to want to stay, which is you. And if you are not either exciting or endearing or giving them a reason to connect with you, to relate with you, it’s going to be much more difficult.

0:15:40.5 Mike Vacanti: What about someone who doesn’t have, “a big personality” or “a great personality”?

0:15:46.1 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think you need like a big one. I think the ultimate thing to do is just be like very, very honest. So let’s say for example, you don’t have a big personality or like a “great personality”. Let’s say you’re monotone and you’re just like. Yeah, like I would lean into that and I would literally say to the camera, people say I’m monotone, I am. And like I would, you could make it funny just by leaning into it. Don’t avoid it, don’t try and hide it, don’t pretend you’re not who you are. Be even more of who you are, be the most you that you can possibly be and just be open and discuss it, because the more you can discuss it and you could be. You could. You know who does this really well, actually, is Ben Bruno.

0:16:32.9 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I was going to get that wrong.

0:16:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Who are you going to say?

0:16:37.0 Mike Vacanti: I was going to say Sean Casey.

0:16:38.7 Jordan Syatt: Sean Casey is, I think, probably even a better example. They’re both actually really good. But Sean Casey is an amazing example of that monotone looks right in the camera. He’s not doing a big personality. He’s just like… He just bluntly, plainly says it without changes in facial expression. That’s it. So I think that’s… But he’s very. He leans into it. Like that’s what he does. So, yeah, I think that’s exactly right. You don’t need a big personality. I just think you need to be honest about what your personality is. And I think issues arise when you get embarrassed or shy and you try and hide it, because then it looks even worse. Then you just look uncomfortable.

0:17:23.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m excited to get this growth guide put together. We’ll be live in the mentorship by the end of March. So that’s exciting.

0:17:32.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s it, brother. What’s going on with you?

0:17:35.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude, not much. Was gone for 10 days. Had a bunch of days with Gary out east and some family time and just got back yesterday afternoon.

0:17:46.4 Jordan Syatt: You’re traveling a lot.

0:17:48.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m traveling a lot. I know, I know. Although it’s going to slow down. Why slow down here? Because my wife is pregnant, Jordan.

0:18:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, let’s go.

0:18:05.3 Mike Vacanti: The audience doesn’t know how many of those moments we’ve had over the last several months that just were like, nah, don’t even include that. But yeah, she’s due in May, so it’s coming up here, but…

0:18:16.9 Jordan Syatt: Coming up. Coming up.

0:18:17.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:18:17.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I’ve been waiting for you to say this on the podcast or you’ve said it, but then we just cut it from the episode. But I’m excited that that hasn’t happened yet in this episode. And we’re keeping it in there. Mike’s wife is pregnant, due in May. So travel is going to slow down, man. How are you feeling?

0:18:34.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah travel’s gotta slow down. I feel good, bro. I’m excited. Yeah.

0:18:40.5 Jordan Syatt: Do you want to say the gender or no?

0:18:41.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s going to be very different. Baby girl.

0:18:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Baby girl. Let’s go. Let’s go.

0:18:48.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. There’s a… It’s so funny. You and I for people who’ve been listening for a long time know we talk about fear and anger all the time. And there’s something about when you and I are having a conversation where I don’t have either of those emotions. So I feel like they’re both at zero anytime we talk about it. But I recognize. No, no, you’re going to like this because I recognized recently I had like a slight wave of… Oh, like 15% fear, I guess you would call it. Just a real realization around providing and you know, see, and I don’t even think it’s… It was a wave of fear.

0:19:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Now you talk yourself out of the fear.

0:19:43.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, because I don’t like fear. But there was a moment of like, oh man, should I really start making content?

0:19:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Nah, don’t need to.

0:19:55.3 Mike Vacanti: Maybe. And the way that things are changing. And I told you about the conversation at Gary’s off site with his team there, the conversations we were having about AI and various people’s positions on AI and how it will affect the fitness industry. I’m still a huge believer in one on one coaching being about the relationship between the coach and the client and that being something that can’t be replaced by technology, at least in the foreseeable future. So I’m not worried on that side. But yeah, we’re very excited. And I mean, you’ve been through it, I assume, will take me to another level in terms of responsibility and priorities and just where my mind is on a day to day and minute to minute basis.

0:20:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Do you have any preliminary thoughts on changes that might be happening? On things that are going through your head? What do you think you’re going to be a dad, dude?

0:21:05.0 Mike Vacanti: I feel like I said enough for this episode. I feel like that was…

0:21:08.3 Jordan Syatt: Should we put that in the title? Should we put like, Mike’s going to be a dad?

0:21:12.3 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, no. Easter egg.

0:21:12.9 Jordan Syatt: Easter egg.

0:21:13.8 Mike Vacanti: Only for the real listeners.

0:21:15.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay, all right, I like that, I like that. We’ll put Instagram growth guide in the title and a lot of people wanna listen to it because people are obsessed with social media. And then they’ll be like, oh my God, Mike is going to have a baby.

0:21:29.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Should we dive into a little Q&A.

0:21:34.8 Jordan Syatt: Thoughts on the Gulf of Mexico being renamed. This is from Louie Griffith.

0:21:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Comical. Comical. I don’t have like strong opinions either way on that one. The move from Twitter to Instagram was a real move away from consuming politics to like consuming things that are funny, things that are creative and things that are by people I know or like, used to know kind of thing. And that was a real refresher after an election year and then an election and yeah.

0:22:10.2 Jordan Syatt: Got it. So no real thoughts on it?

0:22:11.6 Mike Vacanti: Is it a real subject?

0:22:13.1 Jordan Syatt: What do you mean?

0:22:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Are people up in arms about it?

0:22:15.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think people are up in arms about… I mean, listen, no matter what, no matter who’s in office, the other side is always going to be up in arms. If a Republican’s in office, the Democrats are going to be up in arm. If a Democrat’s in office, the Republicans are going to be up in arms. And no matter what they do, there’s always going to be anger. So yeah, it’s a real topic. My uneducated take, I will admit this is uneducated. It seems ridiculous.

0:22:42.3 Mike Vacanti: The change in name?

0:22:44.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it seems a little bit ridiculous now. I do know there is more to it. I do know that there is like a great deal of what is funded there and what happens there is funded and done through the United States, which from what I have been able to gather through my minimal and uneducated background is that is where it’s coming from. Like, hey, we want this to be named after who’s really funding and supporting it.

0:23:13.8 Jordan Syatt: But I also think that on the list of priorities of what needs to be done, it’s like what we decide to call it is not of the utmost importance, to say the least. So in my uneducated opinion, I think it’s a little bit ridiculous and it’s more done just to rile up the people who he knows…

0:23:35.5 Mike Vacanti: And it’s going to rile up.

0:23:37.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s what my thoughts are. Which is like. Then the question is like, okay, do you want your president to be spending their time doing that, go down that whole rabbit hole. But like, in my very uneducated opinion, I would like to sit down with him privately, which is obviously never going to happen. Hey, Don. Hey. So tell me why did you actually do this? ‘Cause I have a feeling there are reasons that are not public.

0:24:00.7 Mike Vacanti: Chess.

0:24:01.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, like things that are going on behind the scenes.

0:24:03.4 Mike Vacanti: Or he’s just trolling or it’s just exactly what it appears to be.

0:24:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Or it could be exactly that.

0:24:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:24:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Sort of like how he’s been calling Canada the 51st state or.

0:24:15.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh yeah, yeah.

0:24:17.2 Jordan Syatt: Like. Which is also like crazy, man, some of the stuff. Yeah based on my uneducated experience or uneducated thoughts, I think it’s just a little bit ridiculous, but…

0:24:29.4 Mike Vacanti: That feels more like. I know, it kind of developed into something. And then you had the four nations hockey stuff. And so there’s a little bit of rivalry there, which there always is. But that feels more like a jab at Trudeau than it does at the people of Canada, who are…

0:24:45.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

0:24:46.9 Mike Vacanti: Incredible in all of my experience.

0:24:49.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, I mean, yeah. Correct. Even the conservatives in Canada seem to be like, great. Da, da, da. Then the liberals in Canada were like, fuck you. We’re never going to.

0:24:58.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, is that how it was?

0:25:00.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s what I saw. But I mean, I’m sure… Listen, we all see different things. But I saw the liberals in Canada were like, absolutely not. And the conservatives were like, let’s go.

0:25:08.5 Mike Vacanti: Interesting, did you see that on Instagram?

0:25:12.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But everyone’s feed is so different, man. We all really are in different worlds. Like, I look at different people’s feeds. Yeah. It’s really. We all live in completely different realities.

0:25:25.4 Mike Vacanti: But it’s only getting started. There’s going to be a point where we don’t even see… There’s going to be so much content that we don’t even see the same stuff.

0:25:34.1 Jordan Syatt: I think that’s already like…

0:25:37.2 Mike Vacanti: No but there will be overlaps in posts. You’ll send me something. I’m like, haha, I saw that. I think there’s a world where there’s going to be such supply that we’re all only seeing our own stuff.

0:25:47.8 Jordan Syatt: And the AI videos are pretty. They’re crazy. There is one AI video that was going around of people didn’t know it was AI, but there was a video that looked 100% real of celebrities who are… After Kanye came out with his antisemitic.

0:26:09.2 Mike Vacanti: His Nazi. His most recent swastika shirt.

0:26:11.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Basically, there was Jerry Seinfeld and a bunch of other celebrities were wearing this shirt that was saying like, Fuck you Kanye, basically, Scarlett Johansson, all these people. It was fake, and it was completely fake. But it looked. It looked like 100% real. It looked completely real. So much that I think Scarlett, I heard Scarlett Johansson had a lawsuit being like, “You can’t have this. I didn’t do that.”

0:26:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Good for her. Yeah, it would be really good if these platforms came up with a system for verifying the authenticity of content somehow.

0:27:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But then the question is, essentially, it’s a new fact checker thing. Right. Where it’s like, now they’re basically being like, oh, we’re saying this is fake, but whatever.

0:27:08.9 Mike Vacanti: But it’s deciding whether or not a statement is true or false is different than there is an objective yes or no as to what…

0:27:21.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, no. I’m just saying, what if they lie? I’m not… I completely agree it’s objectively different, but I’m wondering if it’s like in order to get their narrative across, they’ll say it’s real when it’s actually not.

0:27:31.2 Mike Vacanti: This video was actually real, it was AI. I don’t know how they’re going to do it.

0:27:36.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s crazy.

0:27:38.6 Mike Vacanti: Wild world.

0:27:40.3 Jordan Syatt: Someone said, how do you… @lisayoubetcha. How do you plan your social media? I’ll take this one, Mike. I’ll give you. I don’t. I shouldn’t say I don’t. I have one day a week where I film YouTube videos with my videographer. And before I had a videographer, I would do something similar where I would plan out a longer form YouTube video. But for my short form, it’s never been planned. It’s literally just like, what do I see? What do I feel passionate about making content about? And if I don’t feel passionate about making content today, what question can I answer that I know people are struggling with. That’s literally it. And I just make new content every day. And I do think about it. More recently, I’ve been thinking about it from this perspective because I’ve been in my mind of like, man, what do I do? Like, what do I do during the day? And I’m trying to I’ve been doing this thing. I saw this. I think his name is Eugene.

0:28:37.7 Mike Vacanti: Wait, you were just having a moment of reflection about how you spend your time?

0:28:41.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I was like, what do I do? Like, what do I do?

0:28:45.1 Mike Vacanti: Where were you when you had this moment?

0:28:46.3 Jordan Syatt: On the couch at… Yeah, I was just on the couch. And what’s this guy’s name? Eugene. What’s his last name? Eugene Teo? He’s a really nice guy. I like this… We’ve interacted a few… Yeah, Eugene Teo. Really smart guy. He has a big audience. I saw him post something that I found at first a little bit odd, and I was like, you know what? I want to try it. He does this thing on his watch where he starts the day, and as soon as he wakes up, he hits his timer on his watch and then it’ll start going. And so for the first task, he’ll just do it. And however long it goes, once that first task is done, he’ll lap it for the second task and then he’ll do that until the second task is done and then lap it. And so then by the end of the day, he has an itemized, timed list of how long it took him to do each task that day. And he went through and this is what I did. This is what I did. This is what I did. And at first I was like, man, that seems obsessive.

0:29:50.4 Jordan Syatt: But he… It was on his stories. He’s like, I’m not doing it to force myself to rush. I’m literally just curious to see how long it’s taking me and what I’m doing. At the end of the day, I was like, I’m going to try that. Number one. It was crazy how many fucking things I was doing throughout the day. But number two, is it… It’s really. When I’m making content…

0:30:08.6 Mike Vacanti: Was he labeling them or just?

0:30:11.1 Jordan Syatt: He labeled it. He labeled it. Yeah. I’ve always said making content takes a while. It’s even longer than I thought. I was like, for even a shorter video that I thought was taking 30 minutes, it’s like an hour and a half. And so now I’m comparing this to a “average” person’s workday or a normal person’s workday where they’re at the office or whatever, a generally perceived normal job, that takes up a huge portion of your workday. I would say probably between two to three hours just on a single post. And I do that every single day. So it’s mainly just every day, I know this is one thing I have to do. This is part of my job. And so I take the time, I sit down. What am I going to make? Da da da da. All this stuff. And I don’t plan it, other than my one day of YouTube shooting, but that’s it. Everything else is just day-to-day. This is what’s got to get done.

0:31:09.7 Mike Vacanti: You probably have some kind of creative process that is just habitual at this point where you get yourself in a mental place to make content. For you I would imagine it’s through conversation and maybe movement. So go for a walk, talk, get the juices flowing. And then it’s like, all right, I feel like I’m in a place where I want to make content. Or I can. Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you can just roll out of bed cold and rip it.

0:31:38.4 Jordan Syatt: No, I need to get up. I take Curtis out. I go outside with him. As I’m outside with him walking, I’m thinking about what I’m going to make content on. But the main thing that helps me figure out what I want to make content on is all throughout the day, I am finding posts that I’m seeing from other people or comments that I’m seeing, and I’m sending them to myself. So at any point in time, if I don’t know what to make content on, which is basically every day, unless something maybe one in every 20 days, I’ll know oh, I’ve got to make content on this. But 19 out of 20 days, I’m going into my own DMs that I DM myself or my own text messages with myself. And I’m looking at posts that I’ve seen, things that I want to correct, things that I want to discuss, comments that I’ve seen. And that’s what inspires me. It’s like, oh, this, all right, I’ve got to do this. But I never, I rarely want to make, maybe two out of every two days in a month, I’m excited to make content for Instagram. Maybe two.

0:32:38.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:32:39.3 Jordan Syatt: And the rest of the time ah, just part of the job.

0:32:41.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s work.

0:32:42.0 Jordan Syatt: Got to do it. Yep, just work.

0:32:44.3 Mike Vacanti: I will say that, and you have of a, make at least one thing every day. Most days is a target. But having some, doesn’t have to be a content calendar or a schedule, but some kind of deadline is going to lead to you producing more over a fixed time period, which is going to lead to you getting better at making content, which is going to make your future content better, which is going to make you grow faster. So having some kind of like, all right, I wanna be posting at least at this frequency on these platforms as a goal has always worked well for me, whether that was daily vlogging or whether that was once a week videos with a videographer going Facebook, YouTube. But any kind of system was beneficial.

0:33:35.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, agreed. Agreed. Something to hold yourself accountable to.

0:33:38.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. And just, because of the creativity involved and, we’re all part artist and part business. Some of it’s like 95-5. Some of it’s 50-50. But a lot of people have a natural tendency to think something isn’t good enough or to procrastinate or to say, I’ll do it tomorrow if you don’t have a deadline, it’s just easy to negotiate with yourself and not make the thing.

0:34:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Correct. 100%.

0:34:13.3 Mike Vacanti: I read a super interesting article the other day. I believe the title is what do you want to want?

0:34:21.9 Jordan Syatt: I want to want to be interested in climate change books. And I just can’t. I can’t get into it.

0:34:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Why do you want to want that?

0:34:33.0 Jordan Syatt: Because it’s such a controversial topic and there’s so many conflicting beliefs about something that is very important. And I want to read both sides and I want to be able to form my own educated opinion and…

0:34:55.1 Mike Vacanti: Got it. Because you want to know the truth on that subject. Cool.

0:35:00.2 Jordan Syatt: Yes. And no one has made it interesting. No one. Not to me, at least.

0:35:10.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s…

0:35:11.4 Jordan Syatt: And I don’t want to read, I don’t want propaganda clips. I don’t want emotional based arguments because both sides make these emotional based arguments. And I don’t know. I don’t want that. I want to know the science. I want to know what’s actually going on. We talk about carbon dioxide, but also we need carbon dioxide. How much carbon dioxide? And then fucking, what’s his name? The guy from the Inconvenient Truth. What was his name?

0:35:46.0 Mike Vacanti: Oh, Michael Moore.

0:35:47.5 Jordan Syatt: No, no, no, no, no, no. Not Michael Moore. Inconvenient. Al Gore. Al Gore. Al Gore in The Inconvenient Truth. He’s talking about how all the ice caps were going to be gone.

0:35:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Al Gore produced Inconvenient Truth?

0:36:01.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, Al Gore. Yeah. All the stuff that he says in there, it’s like by 2020, all these things are going to be gone. And now they’re not gone at all. And so there’s that side, but then there’s the other side. And it’s like, man, I just, I want to know the truth. I just want to know. And it’s just, I want to want to know that.

0:36:25.9 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:36:26.4 Jordan Syatt: What do you want to want?

0:36:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Not that. Not that.

0:36:30.5 Jordan Syatt: What is it? What do you want to want?

0:36:32.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m not sure.

0:36:35.4 Jordan Syatt: You got to want to want something. You want to want to work hard. Do you want to want to be like…

0:36:42.0 Mike Vacanti: I used to, out of a place of anger. I actually saw a really interesting Kobe Bryant clip about basically, I think he is using negative emotion as fuel for worldly accomplishment. I think he’s like the definition of that. He’s that concept personified. No, I mean, no, I don’t think I want to want to work hard.

0:37:18.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:37:21.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t want to sit at a computer for 14 hours every single day and just build my business. I guess that’s how I think of working hard right now. I can’t believe I’m about to say this word, but a more holistic and healthier approach that involves more facets of life.

0:37:43.7 Jordan Syatt: Like church. Do you want to want to go to church more?

0:37:47.0 Mike Vacanti: I wouldn’t say that. I would say I was coming from the perspective of, I guess you could go down that route, but more like… So first, we’re not going to get into this in this podcast, but the list that I made when I was thinking about this was they all ended up not being things that I wanted. They all were things that I wanted to be. They weren’t things I wanted to have, and they weren’t things I necessarily, some of them were wanting to do, which is why I thought yours was so interesting, because yours was a wanting to know about something, but they were all wanting to be. No, when I said holistic, I mean like moving more, things that I already do, but maybe could just do a better job of.

0:38:39.3 Jordan Syatt: Makes total sense.

0:38:41.5 Mike Vacanti: What I think is far more interesting than my personal opinion on it, though, was what this author, by the way, his name’s Kyle Eschenroeder, this four areas framework he had was instead of wanting fame, wanting to make change or make an impact.

0:39:10.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, instead of fame. I thought you said instead of wanting change to make fame. Okay, got it. Okay. Yep.

0:39:15.9 Mike Vacanti: Instead of wanting fame, which is a comment. I mean, in the social media era, it’s like, in Gen Z, it’s like the most. Yeah. Instead of wanting extreme wealth, wanting a frugal heart. And then they got into explaining a frugal heart, which I didn’t understand basically being able to take joy in things that are free. Like sit there and look at a bird on a tree for 15 minutes and be fully engrossed in that.

0:39:48.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:39:49.6 Mike Vacanti: And then they also went into like, they’re not saying money’s bad, but wanting extreme wealth. You see people who go down the route and then just keep moving the goalpost and it’s like, I want 100 million, I want 500 million. I need a billion. I need all the billions. Instead of wanting to be extraordinary, wanting to be ordinary, which I still was probably, that’s probably his most controversial one. And I still don’t think I fully have my head wrapped around what he meant because it’s very, it feels very anti American or the spirit and ethos we grew up, which is like…

0:40:35.3 Jordan Syatt: Be the best you can be.

0:40:36.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, exactly. And then instead of wanting an easy life, wanting struggle.

0:40:43.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, I think that’s antithetical from wanting to be ordinary. You can’t both want to be ordinary and also want to struggle.

0:40:51.4 Mike Vacanti: You’ll have to read it because I don’t think ordinary and extraordinary do a good job of explaining the point he was trying to make. I don’t think the header on that one.

0:41:05.4 Jordan Syatt: That wasn’t the right words you don’t think?

0:41:07.7 Mike Vacanti: No, I think he could have picked something a little bit different. He was trying to like… People, we’ll link the article in the show notes.

0:41:16.3 Jordan Syatt: I was thinking, it was funny when you said wanting to be ordinary instead of extraordinary, I had been thinking about something of and I was being facetious or joking in my own head as I was thinking about it. But wanting to want to almost like take the blue pill, to just have such a short sighted and narrow worldview that it’s actually easier to, you’re only viewing the world from your own lens.

0:41:52.2 Mike Vacanti: Ignorance is bliss.

0:41:53.3 Jordan Syatt: Just ignorance is bliss. Exactly. And whereas the more you know, the more you’re educated, almost like the more empathy you can have for others and the more… It’s so much. Things become so much more complex and it’s like part, I was trying to, I was having this debate in my head, well, what I want that. But then when you have that, you’re giving up so much and then. So is your life actually better? It’s just, I was having a very, I was having a war in my head. And then when he said wanting to be ordinary instead of extraordinary, it almost hit home from the perspective of, When you’re ordinary, it’s almost… When you’re chasing ordinary as opposed to extraordinary, you are in some sense, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re taking the blue pill, but it does mean that you are settling for an easier life but also potentially, potentially a better or maybe a healthier life, maybe not a better life.

0:42:56.3 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know if it’s easier.

0:42:58.6 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know.

0:43:01.0 Mike Vacanti: One thing he said was a lot of people who seek extraordinary are doing so because they hate who they are. And so he was trying to frame it as not wanting to run away from who you are and basically make your accomplishments… We’ll have to read the article. I’m definitely not doing a good job on that point as I don’t fully understand it either.

0:43:32.8 Jordan Syatt: I like the concept of it a lot. It’s definitely thought provoking.

0:43:35.7 Mike Vacanti: Well, especially because what we want are just our base desires.

0:43:41.9 Jordan Syatt: Right.

0:43:42.5 Mike Vacanti: I want to be entertained, so I’m going to scroll. I want to be satiated, so I’m going to eat the ice cream. I want to, all of these cheap dopamine, human instincts that we need to overcome if we want to live a great life, I guess you would say, not want to waste your life.

0:44:05.8 Jordan Syatt: A meaningful life, a fulfilling life. Yeah, yeah. I want positive feedback. Okay, well, pause. Why do you want the positive feedback? Maybe you would want to want you don’t need anyone’s feedback.

0:44:27.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s a really good one right there. But it would be far better to not need anyone’s feedback and keep making stuff because you want to do good rather than, I don’t need people’s feedback. I’m just not going to make stuff to get the feedback.

0:44:48.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:44:49.6 Mike Vacanti: He also talks about how this is like a multi year, multi decade process. And yeah, so we’re not making these changes overnight, but basically the longer you have a desire or adopt a desire, the more ingrained it becomes. And then we just live in these loops for our entire life without even really recognizing it.

0:45:15.5 Jordan Syatt: The longer you give in to that desire.

0:45:18.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I guess give in is a good, I think. Yeah, that’s a great way to frame it.

0:45:24.3 Jordan Syatt: So then the question is, is it better to resist it? Right.

0:45:28.2 Mike Vacanti: Or replace it. Even just thinking about the question is something that I hadn’t spent much time thinking about in my life. And I don’t necessarily see others doing a ton of. They spoke about mimetic desire, which is adopting the desires of the people around you, which is like a keeping up with the Joneses mindset.

0:45:50.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see that becoming a, I’m trying to see where does this go. Where is the logical end of this? And I see it becoming like a monk, where they just completely relinquish all desires. And you know what I’m talking about.

0:46:16.9 Mike Vacanti: That could be where it ends up for some.

0:46:19.1 Jordan Syatt: I feel like that’s the logical extreme. You get to a point where it’s like anything you want? No, we don’t give into any desire whatsoever.

0:46:27.6 Mike Vacanti: But what if you want to want to help millions of people become healthier and live longer? You’re not going to do that meditating in a cave. You need to be out there helping people. But then it’s battling the desires you don’t want while hanging on to what you want to want. It’s not easy, but who said it’s supposed to be?

0:46:51.7 Jordan Syatt: You bring up a really good point because that’s the one issue with I think of hiding in a cave, and I know they’re not hiding in a cave. That’s not fair. I’m not saying that. But isolating yourself to a point in which you’re preventing yourself from actually helping other people. And now it’s like you’ve prioritized you so much and maybe your relationship with God, but to the point where you’ve now isolated yourself from other human beings and from providing to the world.

0:47:29.9 Mike Vacanti: And I don’t know a lot about monks. Maybe the top monk helps the junior monks become better monks. So they’re helping others.

0:47:39.8 Jordan Syatt: Within their community Yeah.

0:47:40.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But yes, your example of this guy meditating on the top of a hill by himself for his whole life, compared to, if you think back to Zelda just you got your machete and you’re just chopping weeds every single day and grinding through every hour.

0:48:01.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s really interesting. I like that a lot. You could think about that for a long time. It never ends.

0:48:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Because your wants change there’s no end?

0:48:09.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And with every choice comes another want. And with every want, well, what do you want to want and why do you want that want?

0:48:16.7 Mike Vacanti: What do you mean with every choice comes another want?

0:48:19.1 Jordan Syatt: So it’s like every time I want to want this, I don’t want to do this. Okay, so you choose not to do this, but you go the other way instead. Cool. Now you have other options. Okay, so now here’s the next step. I chose this path. Now here are the other options I can choose. Why do I want to do that? Okay, I don’t want to do that. I want to do that. So every step, every choice you make, there are now, you’re presented new options, new places to go and new wants and new desires. There’s no end to it.

0:48:47.2 Mike Vacanti: And maybe there’s not supposed to be. Maybe you’re supposed to be pursuing a direction rather than an end point. If you’re continually moving away from desires you don’t want and continually moving towards desires that you consciously chose as better for you rather than your animal instincts decided were better for you, it seems like that’s a good way to live.

0:49:12.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s a great point, that it’s not about the end. It is about moving towards the way you want to go directionally.

0:49:17.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I like that. I actually had a question in my DMs.

0:49:22.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah?

0:49:23.3 Mike Vacanti: Someone was told by a trainer that they should not track collagen protein as protein, but that they should just not track it. Is that right or wrong?

0:49:39.3 Jordan Syatt: I thought the answer that you gave a long time ago made the most sense to me, which is if you’re having it as a serving or occasionally having it, then you should count it. But if it’s making up like 40% of your protein, well, that’s a fucking problem.

0:49:55.0 Mike Vacanti: You have a great memory about things that matter. How did you pull that? That was years ago and we haven’t talked about it since, I think so.

0:50:04.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s just made sense to me. If it’s a small percentage of your protein intake, then yeah, who cares?

0:50:10.2 Mike Vacanti: Cool. Jordan answered it just like that.

0:50:12.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, you answered it. I just said what you said. That was literally what you said.

0:50:18.3 Mike Vacanti: That memory.

0:50:19.5 Jordan Syatt: Do you water your grass?

0:50:20.9 Mike Vacanti: I have a sprinkler system.

0:50:21.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you have a sprinkler system.

0:50:24.2 Mike Vacanti: That was here in the ground when we bought the house and, yep. Do you water your grass?

0:50:33.0 Jordan Syatt: The guy came over yesterday to, because they put the irrigation in and all of that. And I mean, we just put sod down and so they’re showing me how it works. And I’m just, it’s a lot.

0:50:47.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s a lot?

0:50:48.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s a lot. It’s a lot trying to set…

0:50:50.2 Mike Vacanti: Once you get it set up, though, you don’t have to do anything.

0:50:53.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I think the guy made it seem more…

0:50:53.6 Mike Vacanti: The water’s on these days, at this time. Yeah. There’s a bunch of zones.

0:50:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Okay, good. Okay. You know what I’m talking about, these zones and, yeah. But then there are different types. There are sprinklers and there’s bubblers and there’s this, and there’s different…

0:51:08.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m not on that fancy level. I’m not on that.

0:51:11.7 Jordan Syatt: I shouldn’t be ’cause I think it’s all going to die.

0:51:16.9 Mike Vacanti: No it’s not.

0:51:19.9 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s all going to die. They put trees in and the guy, the builder, was like, did you water your trees? I was like, I need to water my trees? He was like, unless you want them to die. I was like…

0:51:25.4 Mike Vacanti: Do they get enough from the sprinklers? Do the trees need more than the grass?

0:51:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, apparently. He was like, “yeah, if you’re just out there, stand out there with a hose for a little bit. Just put some…” I was like, “how much?” “Drench it.” I was like, okay…

0:51:42.4 Mike Vacanti: How many trees did they plant?

0:51:44.9 Jordan Syatt: The HOA required us to plant three.

0:51:48.0 Mike Vacanti: HOAs. What a farce.

0:51:49.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re preaching, bro. But they’re baby trees. We didn’t…

0:51:53.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s good to have trees for sure. But the idea of buying a property and then having this regulatory body being like, you need to have at least three trees.

0:52:07.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you got to have three. Bro, maybe a tree would have prevented that kid from ramming his truck through our fucking fence and going into our pond.

0:52:12.8 Mike Vacanti: That was hilarious.

0:52:13.9 Jordan Syatt: But then maybe he would have died, so maybe that wouldn’t be good. But yeah, dude, day three or day four, living here. Yeah.

0:52:22.4 Mike Vacanti: That was crazy. I was about to go to sleep and I get this picture of a truck halfway in a pond with these skid marks in the grass and this fence just totaled. I immediately, because I don’t even know what color your truck is. I’ve never seen your truck. I call you thinking that you drove your truck into a pond, and I’m just like, I’m making sure everyone’s okay. Was the family in the car? What’s going on? And then you were like, no, it was some kid. You can see the back of him in the picture. But he’s like…

0:53:00.2 Jordan Syatt: He’s got a full head of hair. Skinny neck.

0:53:03.2 Mike Vacanti: Skinny neck. That’s the identifier. And I was like, oh, okay. All right, you’re good. I’m going to bed. You’re like, you don’t want to hear about it? Come on.

0:53:12.3 Jordan Syatt: I was like, dude, what the hell, man? Day three. And then someone DM me. And they’re like, consider yourself lucky because a couple years ago, a car went 100 miles an hour into our living room.

0:53:23.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, my gosh.

0:53:24.7 Jordan Syatt: And I was like, okay, that’s, I’m.

0:53:26.1 Mike Vacanti: That’s terrifying.

0:53:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Perspective shifts.

0:53:29.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, exactly.

0:53:31.5 Jordan Syatt: You win.

0:53:34.6 Mike Vacanti: Seriously.

0:53:35.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was crazy.

0:53:38.2 Mike Vacanti: But no, I went from making sure that your family was alive.

0:53:42.6 Jordan Syatt: We were safe. Yeah.

0:53:43.2 Mike Vacanti: Like, I’m sorry that a 16 year old knocked on your fence, but I had my mother in law talk…

0:53:52.0 Jordan Syatt: You’re going to bed, buddy.

0:53:53.1 Mike Vacanti: Well, no, there were moving pieces. It was like we were putting stuff away in the kitchen and then I was trying to get to bed. Yeah.

0:54:01.5 Jordan Syatt: @amersJ said I read something about microplastics in her brains. How worried should we be? This is a you question for sure.

0:54:13.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think we should be that worried.

0:54:16.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. I didn’t think you were going to go that. I thought you were going to go the other way.

0:54:19.9 Mike Vacanti: I mean, this is a question where the overwhelming majority of people in the west are not getting the five most important things right. And if you’re not getting the five most important things right, then getting an ice mountain water bottle from the gas station now and again compared to drinking it out of a glass bottle isn’t going to make or break your health longevity, hormones, endocrine system, etcetera. There’s definitely something there. The research is also inconclusive and very complex. Peter Attia and his team of researchers, maybe like 10 of them, spent weeks going through microplastic research and the outcomes were inconclusive. So what do I know? Like, yeah, I’m not, I don’t know. We’ll find out. Right?

0:55:19.6 Jordan Syatt: You see, he recently pulled back on his claims on ice baths, fucking finally.

0:55:24.7 Mike Vacanti: Good. Did he have fat loss claims around ice baths?

0:55:28.3 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think he had fat loss claims around them. I think there were more of the longevity type claims around them.

0:55:35.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:55:36.4 Jordan Syatt: And he’s like, we actually, we don’t, we don’t see that, at least not today, but we do see it for the sauna. And I was like, fuck yeah, let’s go, let’s go. Because the cardio protective benefits of the sauna as opposed to the…

0:55:51.2 Mike Vacanti: Jordan just like that confirmation bias. He’s like…

0:55:52.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s exactly.

0:55:55.5 Mike Vacanti: I like sauna 100%. I don’t like ice bath.

0:55:55.8 Jordan Syatt: I hate the ice bath. That’s exactly right.

0:55:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:55:58.7 Jordan Syatt: I thought it was cool that he pulled back on it too. He was like, hey I just want to make you aware there are…

0:56:03.5 Mike Vacanti: He’s done that over the years. He used to be a big keto guy. He pulled back on that. I feel like he’s, I don’t know. Look, I’m not in this evidence based circle jerk of the fitness industry where there’s people who they hate and people who they like and whatever. But everything I’ve seen from Atiya is 90% solid and seems to be intellectually honest from what I’ve seen.

0:56:35.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:56:35.9 Mike Vacanti: Why is he hated by that crew?

0:56:37.9 Jordan Syatt: I think one of the major issues, which I honestly, I understand, because I’m not a fan of it either, is he’s made a big thing out of irregular everyday people who are not diabetics tracking their blood sugar with CGMs. And he either owns a CGM company or is partnered with them. So he’s financially invested significantly into getting more people to be tracking their blood sugar.

0:57:09.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I don’t like that.

0:57:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And it’s just not necessary unless you’re…

0:57:15.0 Mike Vacanti: Cool. We can throw…

0:57:15.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s the one thing that…

0:57:17.5 Mike Vacanti: That in the 10%.

0:57:19.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was only, there was one post I saw. And by the way, I’m just nitpicking just because you asked, but from what I’ve seen from him, I like him a lot. I really enjoy a lot of what he says. I agree with a lot of it. I’ve learned a lot from him. The only other post I saw from him that I didn’t like was he was shitting on the elliptical.

0:57:40.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, yeah, I remember that.

0:57:41.3 Jordan Syatt: And the thing that got me, I was like, if you don’t like it, that’s fine. But the thing that got me is he said, it creates a lot of hip injuries for people. And I was like, what in the world are you talking about? I don’t know a single person who’s ever gotten injured on the elliptical that I know. Many people have gotten injured on a treadmill. Many people. Many, many, many, many, many, many, many people. I know many people who’ve had issues because of being on a bike for too long. Hip flexor issues, lower back issues, all that stuff. I don’t know anybody in the world, I’ve never once met someone who said I was injured on the elliptical. It is literally the lowest impact, one of the safest options. So that was the only other thing that I’ve heard him say that I was like, that’s stupid. Otherwise, I actually really do like him a lot.

0:58:26.8 Mike Vacanti: Good answer. We got a mentorship Q&A.

0:58:30.4 Jordan Syatt: Let’s go.

0:58:31.0 Mike Vacanti: Thank you for listening. We’ll be back next week. Every Tuesday. Please give us a follow if you’re not already on Instagram. Please, please. @personaltrainerpodcast. Jordan posts daily there, bangers from this pod. So thank you and have an amazing week.

0:58:47.6 Jordan Syatt: See you.