Episode 222: The Harvard Situation, Power of Nostalgia, Food Restriction Isn’t All Bad, Biggest Regrets, and More…

0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.4 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:13.2 Mike Vacanti: How you doing?

0:00:13.8 Jordan Syatt: Dude. I’m great. How are you.

0:00:14.9 Mike Vacanti: Brother… I was saving this for the pod. Yesterday, it was 55 degrees and I think the first time since the fall when the UV went above 5 in Minnesota and I found a 15-minute window to lay on my deck. And I went out there in shorts and a t-shirt. It was too cold, wind’s blowing real hard. So I put my… I’m wearing sweats. I’m literally wearing a sweatshirt and sweatpants. And I went and laid down on my deck for 15 minutes. Just got sun on my face. And then it started to get a little warmer. I pulled my shirt up, got like, I don’t know, four minutes of UV on my body, just trying to maximize exposure to the sun.

0:00:55.2 Mike Vacanti: And I woke up this morning feeling like a cloud has been lifted on my life. Like a dark cloud has been lifted. I feel like a new person. And unfortunately, I’m gonna have to be a Snowbird. I’m only 38 years old, so I’m not sure how to figure this out. But I can’t do these northern winters any longer. They are eroding my soul. And I’m gonna have to try and find a way to split time between the south and the North.

0:01:25.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I love that. And it’s… It was literally. The cloud was lifted off of Minnesota. You got direct vitamin D, sunlight. Dude, go. Go to… Go to Florida, man. Or come to Texas. I know you prefer the beach. You know, you like the sand in your toes. You like that? Yeah, go to the beach, man. Go to Florida. What months would you go? Like November or December through April or something?

0:01:48.7 Mike Vacanti: Well, it’s very hard because I want this to be a lifelong plan. And yeah, those months from a weather perspective would be ideal, like in November to April. However, with a family, it’s not practical. And with…

0:02:03.2 Jordan Syatt: If you homeschool it is.

0:02:05.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s true. I literally thought that. But a lot of trade offs. There are a lot of trade offs, a lot of things to consider. But yes, it may be worth it to get sun throughout the year. And by the way, I’ve been taking 15,000+ IUs of vitamin D every single day. And…

0:02:26.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s not the same.

0:02:28.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s nowhere near… It’s not the same…

[overlapping conversation]

0:02:30.0 Jordan Syatt: Wait. You take 15,000 a day?

0:02:31.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:02:32.8 Jordan Syatt: Wow.

0:02:33.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:02:34.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Dude, it’s different. It’s different when you get outside and actually get the sun. Cause it’s not just the vitamin D, it’s everything that comes with it. Like the vitamin D obviously plays a role. But I think it’s more than just that. It’s like the actual… There are so many other factors that I don’t even know how to articulate that come into it.

0:02:49.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I mean, increase in serotonin. But I don’t know what the duration of the serotonin increase from sun exposure is. I don’t know if it’s just acute or if there’s like a half life to the increase that you feel. I don’t know. But here’s what…

0:03:09.3 Jordan Syatt: I think being outside, man like…

0:03:10.8 Mike Vacanti: Here’s what I do know. No, but I’m outside all winter. I’m shoveling snow. I’m going on walks outside. I’m outside in the sun all winter. It’s literally the UV creeping above a certain point that has absolutely changed my life.

0:03:23.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:03:23.8 Mike Vacanti: So that’s a PSA.

0:03:25.8 Jordan Syatt: One of my neighbors, there’s a lot of people around me who homeschool. One of my neighbors, his son is in homeschool. His son and his daughter. His son has gone back and forth between regular school and homeschool because they want to… He was like, I want to try regular school. So he goes to regular school, then he goes to homeschool. And I was talking to his son recently. I was like, which one do you prefer? And he was saying he prefers homeschool. He’s like… And he was saying he prefers it for a number of reasons. But with regular school, and this is… He’s not… He’s not in high school, he’s in middle school.

0:03:54.8 Jordan Syatt: But, you know, he’s smart. He can articulate himself super well. And I was having a conversation. He was basically just like, “Yeah, man, there’s so much time wasted at regular school.”

0:04:08.3 Mike Vacanti: Of course.

0:04:09.6 Jordan Syatt: Whereas at home I could get the same thing done in a brief amount of time. And there’s so many other things we can do. And he’s like, “And I can see my friends elsewhere.” And whether it’s through sports or extracurricular activities. I thought it was… Because I’ve never heard it from a kid’s perspective. I’ve only ever heard it from the adult’s perspective. And obviously I think it does depend on the kids. But I was really respecting my neighbors. Like, yeah, you get the choice. You can choose. You want to do homeschool, you want to do regular school, and you can try both and see which one you prefer. I thought it was awesome.

0:04:36.8 Mike Vacanti: I love that. Yeah. There are so many benefits to homeschooling and so many… I don’t just want to sit here and rag on the public school system or the way that we as a country have set up our public schools. But there are many things that I pretty strongly disagree with. The weight of the subject matter being one of them. The lack of movement in a day, right? Like you know, sitting down in a desk, barely any play time even at young ages, which is necessary for these, for kids, for everyone really. And what was the other one? Oh, the early wake ups are not good. Like…

0:05:26.2 Jordan Syatt: Terrible.

0:05:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:05:29.5 Jordan Syatt: Terrible for the kid. I mean for everyone, especially for the kids.

0:05:30.5 Mike Vacanti: And we all just accept it… We accept it as normal. But you know what, when I was in middle school, which started in fifth grade, our day started at 7:50.

0:05:40.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s crazy.

0:05:42.0 Mike Vacanti: So I was a 10, 11-year-old who had to wake up at 6:30… I think the bus came at 6:55.

0:05:50.8 Jordan Syatt: But you were doing homework until late too. Like that’s another issue is like, at what point do you get any balance. Like the amount of homework that a lot of these kids get, that it’s like they spend all day at school, then you give them hours of homework at night. So it’s like when do they get to have a relaxing day with their family where they’re not stressed about work? It’s like it’s a big… So they end up spending, like you were saying, all day sitting.

0:06:09.1 Mike Vacanti: All day sitting. Not moving, not getting blood flow and sleep deprived. I mean even if you’re getting them to go to bed at a reasonable hour, which isn’t the easiest thing in the world, kids need more sleep.

0:06:20.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:06:23.1 Mike Vacanti: I think… I’ll throw this. And I can’t prove this, but sleep deprivation from the age of 5 to 18 leads to decreased growth in a child.

0:06:35.6 Jordan Syatt: I would say increased anxiety, that’s for sure.

0:06:38.6 Mike Vacanti: No, but physiologically the kid isn’t gonna grow the same way as if they got proper sleep over those…

0:06:44.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, interesting. That’s a real I can’t prove this but…

0:06:47.4 Mike Vacanti: And I’m unbelievably confident in it. I’m unbelievably confident with no science. So take that for whatever it is.

0:06:57.5 Jordan Syatt: Whatever it’s worth. Yap.

0:07:00.2 Mike Vacanti: That nutrition and not being sleep deprived… So if you compare proper nutrition versus micronutrient deficiency and you compare getting enough sleep versus being sleep deprived over that 13-year window, which includes puberty impacts, how tall a kid ends up being.

0:07:18.5 Jordan Syatt: Nutrition I can definitely get on board with and I feel like there’s a lot of research around that. Sleep, I’d have to look at the science. I don’t know if I can jump on that one yet.

0:07:26.3 Mike Vacanti: Here’s the thing, there’s no science. There’s no RCTs on this. Yeah, fine. Go look at population wide data, which the whole evidence based community used to shit on. Unless it serves their purpose.

0:07:35.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Correct. Correct.

0:07:36.8 Mike Vacanti: And they’re like, oh, right.

0:07:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Yep, that’s exactly right.

0:07:39.6 Mike Vacanti: I know it’s right.

0:07:41.0 Jordan Syatt: You’re on it.

0:07:41.8 Mike Vacanti: Got me pissed again. Anyway.

0:07:43.8 Jordan Syatt: Fucking mad.

0:07:45.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s an I can’t prove this, but. So we’ll see. But I need… Yeah, that sun.

0:07:52.5 Jordan Syatt: You need to go to Florida. You need to get to Florida immediately actually. Well, just for the winter months.

0:08:00.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:08:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Get your whole family. Get the whole clan. Go to Florida. Everybody, y’all go.

0:08:03.3 Mike Vacanti: I’ve been trying, been trying. I need to try harder. I’ve got a few more entertaining things on this list. I’m starting today’s pull day off with a single arm half kneeling lap pole. And…

0:08:14.0 Jordan Syatt: You love that one.

0:08:16.4 Mike Vacanti: I do. I really like that movement. I’m at the double pulley. That’s where they’re not close together. So there’s the seated cable row, the lat pull down, the, you know, like a tricep push down, and then the fourth one and then it connects. There’s no pull up bar in the middle on this, so maybe it’s not even connected. But then, you know, 12ft to the side, there’s another one of those exact same setups. So you’re in a position where you could do, you know, a cable fly. Are you understanding where I am?

0:08:49.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:08:50.5 Mike Vacanti: Cool. You know, I’m doing reps. If you’re watching on video, I’m imitating my half kneeling lat pole. This mid set, this foot…

0:09:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Stop.

0:09:05.4 Mike Vacanti: Comes into my field of vision. I’m like, like, I don’t know, 6 inches, 8 inches away from getting kicked in the head. I was like, whoa. And then I look left into the mirror to see and someone’s doing a glute kickback, which you and I talked about recently. I said I think it’s a little overrated. And I actually think it’s probably properly rated in terms of mechanics and muscle building, but not in terms of gym. You know, obviously…

0:09:36.0 Jordan Syatt: Not on the same dual cable machine while you’re fucking in the middle of a set.

0:09:39.3 Mike Vacanti: Or just angle to the side.

0:09:40.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, just turn to the other side.

0:09:42.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah. I almost… Almost took a foot to the head.

0:09:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Did you say anything?

0:09:45.7 Mike Vacanti: No, I just repositioned and then I went to a different cable.

0:09:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Well, there was another cable that was open?

0:09:50.6 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh.

0:09:51.5 Jordan Syatt: All right. That’s like when you’re standing at a urinal and there’s like a whole line of urinals and you’re peeing and a dude comes and stands right next to you and pees right next to you. It’s like, there’s so many other urinals. Go use it… Don’t stand right next to me. That’s completely inappropriate. If there’s another cable open, don’t go and use one that’s already being used. Go to the other cable.

0:10:11.7 Mike Vacanti: I agree with you. I’m just not in the business of, like, lecturing what could be a beginner in the gym. And I’m just like, all right.

0:10:18.1 Jordan Syatt: We need to get you in that business. Hey, hey. I’m here. That one’s wide open.

0:10:27.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, yeah.

0:10:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Did you… Do you make an audible? Did you go like, whoa, or no it was all in your head?

0:10:33.6 Mike Vacanti: I think it was all in… I don’t… I don’t know. I think it was all in my head.

0:10:37.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:10:38.4 Mike Vacanti: Do you have anything interesting on your list?

0:10:40.2 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know if this is interesting. I’m drinking what is objectively a really shitty cup of coffee. Like, it’s objectively a very bad cup of coffee. But…

0:10:47.9 Mike Vacanti: What?

0:10:48.5 Jordan Syatt: This is very interesting. It’s this instant coffee that is sold in Israel, and it’s sold in a lot of Middle Eastern countries. It says instant coffee, but I love it because of, like, the nostalgia associated with it, because I used to drink it when I was there and young, and, like, I used to have it every day, multiple times a day. And literally, like, my sister in Israel, she… She calls it Cafe Magill. It’s like, ugly coffee, gross coffee, disgusting coffee. And, like, she always makes fun of me whenever I… Whenever I drink it. And like, it’s always when I go to their house, like, I’ll always choose that one over, even like, they’re really nice coffee. But it’s the nostalgia of, this is what I always had, where, like, it’s objectively shit coffee, but subjectively I love it. It’s like, my favorite coffee.

0:11:40.2 Mike Vacanti: I’m into that. I’m a big nostalgia guy. Where did you get it?

0:11:45.2 Jordan Syatt: There’s a kosher store that we go to every Friday, and they have, like, all these Israeli foods and drinks and all that stuff. So that’s yeah, I picked it. I saw it, and I was like, I have to get this, and it’s so cheap. You get a huge carton for pennies. It’s like, this is amazing.

0:12:00.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s the best. That actually bleeds into a point I have. Which is…

0:12:03.4 Jordan Syatt: Money.

0:12:05.3 Mike Vacanti: I am so anti-consumerism. I caught a Fight Club clip. And something I was listening to while training today. And I used to really like the movie Fight Club when I was younger. And then as I got older and realized that the main message is pro nihilism, I just fundamentally… Like other than it’s a cool concept and Brad Pitt got shredded and I like the idea of a fight club, like the actual theme of the movie isn’t true or helpful. I’m not a fan of nihilism. However, the theme that they nailed was anti-consumerism. And…

0:12:47.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Blowing up their credit cards.

0:12:51.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, and that’s where that famous line, we buy things to impress people we don’t like with… And then have to work jobs that we hate. And da da, da, Brad Pitt’s giving his pump up speech. But yeah, man, there’s just… There are so many… I just hate consumerism. I hate… I don’t know if it’s my personality and I’m built for function rather than whatever else drives people. Maybe shopping just isn’t my vice. Maybe… Maybe as an ISTJ, practicality just speaks to me, but that’s it.

0:13:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I’m the same way. I could sleep on a cardboard box. Like, I don’t really… And I actually think it’s almost to a fault. Because I remember when I first started doing a podcast, I didn’t even use a microphone. I was like, it doesn’t need to sound nice, I don’t care. But then it was… The issue became people’s experience wasn’t as good for them because the audio wasn’t as good for them. And I was like, oh fine, all right, I’ll buy this like $20 microphone on Amazon so that your experience is better. But yeah…

0:14:02.1 Mike Vacanti: But that’s function.

0:14:03.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s function. Yeah, that’s function.

0:14:04.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s function. You wouldn’t just buy a new microphone every month because you got sick of the color blue on it.

0:14:10.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah. Correct.

0:14:11.1 Mike Vacanti: And you wanted a red mic and then you were like, I want a green mic. And you’re like, I want a peach colored mic.

0:14:15.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. That is an interesting vice. It’s a real addiction. Like the shopping addiction is real people ruin their lives. Which I know nothing about it, but I’ve seen, you know, bits and pieces here and there. That’s a real addiction that thank God I don’t understand.

0:14:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Or have.

0:14:32.3 Jordan Syatt: Or… That’s what I mean. Yeah.

0:14:33.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I’ve heard horror stories about people. Yeah. Like just buying massive amounts of clothes, burning through their savings, racking up…

0:14:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Going into insane debt.

0:14:47.0 Mike Vacanti: Like five figure credit card debt. Yeah. Yeah. That is an under discussed vice.

0:14:53.9 Jordan Syatt: Hugely under discussed.

0:14:56.1 Mike Vacanti: Spending money is dopaminergic.

0:14:57.1 Jordan Syatt: I wonder what that is. Like, what’s going on where, like, I need to buy this. What is that? It’s not logical, but I wonder what’s going on underneath. I guess I can understand binge eating more because, like, I’ve been through it. But I would imagine there’s a similar reward system, right? It’s like…

0:15:17.2 Mike Vacanti: Dopamine. 100%.

0:15:19.3 Jordan Syatt: I would imagine it’s like, similar, obviously different in that the… It’s different because you need food to survive. You don’t need to shop to survive. And so I can understand where there’s food always around and the trigger might be there more frequently. I also understand, like, when you’re binging, you feel uncomfortable. Like, as you’re doing it, like, you get… You’re full, you’re not actually hungry, but like this… It’s this impulsive… I would imagine that similar when you’re shopping where it’s like, you feel bad that you’re doing it. You know you shouldn’t be doing it, but you just, like, have this impulsive desire to spend, to buy this, to buy. Like, why, what’s going on? And as you’re buying it, you know you shouldn’t be doing it, but you’re still doing it. So I would imagine the reward system is the same or similar at the very least.

0:16:00.1 Jordan Syatt: But I do wonder what could potentially be driving that. And at what point does someone realize that’s their vice? At what point is someone… Are they buying something and they’re like, ooh, like, that felt so good. Like, did they buy something and then have someone say, I’m jealous that you have that thing? Or are they getting certain feedback from people when they buy something that leads them to want to buy again? Is it a coping mechanism for something else going on? I wonder how that actually happens. It’s interesting.

0:16:26.6 Mike Vacanti: Maybe even multiple of those things.

0:16:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:16:30.2 Mike Vacanti: Positive feedback can be a motivator. Being dopamine deficient leads to wanting to get back on the pleasure side of the seesaw. Leads to, give me a drink, give me sugar, give me a cigarette, I want to shop. There are so many things that can get us there instantaneously.

0:16:52.2 Jordan Syatt: I think I’m lucky because when I buy something, when I spend money, I hate myself.

0:16:57.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:16:57.5 Jordan Syatt: Like, buying and spending money is like, I’m like, so disappointed in myself. I’m like, I can’t believe I just did that. Like, even for something that I need. Like at groceries, like, hey, we need all this. But it’s like, I hate that I just spent money on that. It’s such a… It’s not something that gives me dopamine. It’s something that actively makes me upset whenever I spend money.

0:17:18.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s good. That’s good in my book.

0:17:20.6 Jordan Syatt: But food, I see that being much easier. Much easier to get addicted to.

0:17:26.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, here. Good. I got a perfect segue. So I’m pretty sure he listens. And so I’m gonna preface this by saying I absolutely love when this client of mine sends me baked goods because they’re delicious, and he’s an incredible baker. And he’s very thoughtful and very generous, and, like, it’s all with the best intent.

0:17:51.8 Jordan Syatt: You always speak very highly of this client. You’ve met him in person, right?

0:17:56.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Sometimes.

0:17:56.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. You speak super highly of him.

0:18:00.2 Mike Vacanti: When I tell you that I do not have control over myself with certain baked goods, and I don’t have… Like, my satiety signals don’t exist. With M&M cookies, I don’t have satiety signals.

0:18:14.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh bro. Yeah. Yeah.

0:18:16.7 Mike Vacanti: With an apple crumb cake, I don’t have any satiety signals until I’m at the point where I’m physiologically ill.

0:18:25.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Like, sick. You’re actually sick.

0:18:27.7 Mike Vacanti: Like, like doubled over, laying in bed. Like, groaning sick.

0:18:33.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:18:33.4 Mike Vacanti: However…

0:18:34.9 Jordan Syatt: So much saturated fat just. Just took…

0:18:39.1 Mike Vacanti: And my body just hates me. However, however, with ice cream, it’s completely different because…

0:18:45.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, that is interesting.

0:18:46.0 Mike Vacanti: I get full and don’t want past a certain amount. Like, there’s an amount where I’m like, okay, I feel satisfied. I don’t feel like I need any more of this. I feel psychologically and physiologically like I’m done with this. That was really enjoyable. I’m stopping. Chocolate chip cookies, M&M cookies, apple crisp, coffee cake, things like that, can’t stop. I have in my notes from recently. What did I write? I wrote, I would rather have zero cookies… I should find it. It’s along the lines of, I don’t want one. Like, I’m just gonna start having zero because I don’t want one. If I’m gonna…

0:19:32.8 Jordan Syatt: Basically.

0:19:34.3 Mike Vacanti: If I’m gonna have one, I want 10. So I’d rather just have zero.

0:19:36.5 Jordan Syatt: Once you pop you just can’t stop. It’s Pringles tagline in real life.

0:19:41.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

0:19:43.1 Jordan Syatt: Wait, so you were just taking notes on your own thoughts? You’re just like, hey… Like, was this after you ate a bunch of his cookies?

0:19:48.9 Mike Vacanti: Brother, I’ve been taking notes on my own thoughts since 2006.

0:19:51.8 Jordan Syatt: Was this after you ate a bunch? You were just like, what is wrong with me? I’m gonna write this down. Or was this, like, at a separate time?

0:19:56.7 Mike Vacanti: Probably at a time reflecting.

0:19:58.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow, okay.

0:20:00.1 Mike Vacanti: I mean, in the aftermath, I wasn’t… No, I wasn’t writing anything after because I was so full. Uncomfortable. Anyway, I think it’s an interesting concept, and I’m going to wrap it, tie it into fitness. Building your food environment in a way that serves you is so beneficial. And that doesn’t mean not including any sweets or any treats, but it’s almost like on a Anna Lembke, drug of choice. It’s like food drug of choice. Some people get addicted to alcohol. Some people can do it in moderation. Some people do cocaine once and hate it. And some people are addicted for the rest of their lives. Like, people have drugs of choice. I think there are desserts of choice where, at least for me, some of them I can’t be trusted alone with, and some of them I can.

0:20:46.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude. I completely agree. I think there should be… I think it should be okay to say, I literally don’t eat that food because I know myself, and if I do, I’m going to go overboard with it. Like, it will be completely uncontrolled. And it’s not because you’re not allowed to eat it. It’s because you’re actively… Actively deciding not to. Because, you know, if you do eat it, it becomes exponentially more difficult to control. It’s like, if you’re in a committed relationship, you probably shouldn’t be going to strip clubs or places where, like, temptation is signi… Like, you could go, you’re allowed to go, but temptation is way higher. And you’re more like… It’s like, okay, I’m allowed to eat this. I know it’s not like I’m not allowed to, but as soon as it touches my fucking lips, I’m like, Frank the Tank. And I’m just going to be… It’s going to be. All bets are off, and I’m going to be…

0:21:36.7 Mike Vacanti: Great example.

0:21:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Streaking down the… Down the… I’m going to be streaking down the street in the middle of the night naked. You know.

0:21:43.2 Mike Vacanti: Great example. And I love that you said, and it’s okay to just not eat certain foods, because I feel like the consensus professional opinion around this right now, maybe not consensus, but a number of professionals would say you need to get yourself in a position where you can enjoy this thing in moderation. It’s like, why do I need to do that?

0:22:06.5 Jordan Syatt: I think that would be a good ultimate goal. But I don’t think… I think… I don’t think you number one need to. But I do think any… Like, logically, I would love to be able… M&M cookies for me… I have a client who sends me M&M cookies too. They are… I feel like we’re in a support group. I have a client that does that too. Literally all time favorite dessert, M&M cookies…

0:22:28.3 Mike Vacanti: They’re incredible.

0:22:30.1 Jordan Syatt: Squares. They’re like… They’re. They’re crunchy on the outside, soft and gooey on the inside with the crunch from the M&Ms or peanut… Just stupid good. Stupid, stupid good. I would… My ultimate goal would be, I’d love to be able to have half of one or one and be satisfied, but I’m not there. Just so I’m aware of where I am realistically. So that means I’m just not gonna eat it. I would love to get to a point where I could do that, but I’m not there. So just logically, I’m just not gonna eat it unless I’m ready to fucking go all in and Frank the Tank it.

0:23:01.6 Mike Vacanti: So here’s the thing. If I were to make that a goal, I could do it tomorrow.

0:23:08.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:23:08.3 Mike Vacanti: Like, I could eat half an M&M cookie tomorrow. I just don’t…

0:23:13.5 Jordan Syatt: And stop?

0:23:13.9 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. I just don’t want to.

0:23:17.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Makes sense.

0:23:22.4 Mike Vacanti: So I don’t know that making it a goal is… Look, different strokes for different folks, but it’s like, who’s the philosopher that… Something about Heigl. Was it Heigl who had something… Something about should, should and ought, like imposing goals upon people?

0:23:48.2 Jordan Syatt: I sort of think about it like, calorie counting. The ultimate goal is to get to a point where you can eat intuitively without tracking your calories. But if you’re… If you know yourself and like, hey, like, I’m… I know I’m gonna need to track for the rest of my life, or at least for this point in my life, because if I’m not tracking, then I’m gonna be overeating. Cool. Then maybe, like, the ultimate goal would be to get there. But for right now, we’re just going to keep tracking your calories so you can actually eat the appropriate amount. I think, like, my ultimate goal in we’ll say in gymnastics stuff would be to be able to do an iron cross. That’s the ultimate goal. I doubt I’ll ever get there. I think that would be like, the ultimate goal. So for now, I’ll do what I can do and what I ought to do, but it doesn’t mean I’m ever going to actually reach that ultimate goal. I think almost like picking these goals that are potentially even beyond your reach or maybe even beyond your desire is a way to help you shoot forward. I think it also depends on the person. Some people, you make a goal that’s too extreme and it just demotivates them immediately.

0:24:46.1 Mike Vacanti: But why would you pick a goal that you don’t desire?

0:24:48.4 Jordan Syatt: Because that might be objectively the best option for you, even if you don’t want it. It’s like, I know this is what’s best for me.

0:24:56.0 Mike Vacanti: Interesting. But what if you desire what’s right for you and you still don’t desire that?

0:25:01.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s a real problem.

0:25:02.9 Mike Vacanti: Especially if it’s something like, like to use this logic, like, I want to be able to just do one bump of heroin.

0:25:10.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s not good for you. That’s not good for you at all.

0:25:15.9 Mike Vacanti: But under that logic, I don’t think eating one cookie is good for you.

0:25:19.3 Jordan Syatt: I don’t think eating one cookie is good for you. But I don’t think that not being able… But I do think that not being able to eat one cookie without anxiety is bad for you.

0:25:28.9 Mike Vacanti: No one’s talking about anxiety.

0:25:30.4 Jordan Syatt: Well, so I think, like, I don’t think you get health benefits from eating a cookie, from a physiological health benefit. I do think you could get psychological health detriments if you feel like you are not able to do that.

0:25:44.7 Mike Vacanti: Oh, okay. Yeah. For someone who actually can’t. I agree.

0:25:48.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes, correct. Yeah, exactly. So like… Yeah.

0:25:51.2 Mike Vacanti: But I’m arguing that’s the majority position in the evidence based fitness community versus it being okay to say I don’t want to have one.

0:26:03.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:26:04.0 Mike Vacanti: Like, I actually just don’t want to keep Oreos in my house all the time because I don’t want one Oreo ever. And I definitely don’t want to crush a bag. Like, that’s not aligned with my goals right now. So I just don’t eat Oreos right now.

0:26:16.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude, I love that. I’m all about that.

0:26:18.5 Mike Vacanti: And to be honest, I think it’s how I, in large part, you know, we talk about food environment a lot. I think it’s how I built my physique over the years. Is if we’re thinking of places where you can make like one or two or three decisions that have… Pull huge levers, setting up a proper food environment and not keeping bingeable foods around is a huge one.

0:26:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Dude. I completely agree. I know… Again, I’m not going to name any names. I know of a coach who was saying that she was helping people with binge eating. And these people came to me and most people told me about it, where they would say… And a lot of people in the fitness industry struggle with binging, especially around, like, competitors, like bodybuilders, physique competitors, they struggle with binging. And a lot of them struggle with binging around higher fat foods like peanut butter. And so they were going to this woman for coaching, and this woman was like, “You should be able to have peanut butter in your house without binging on it.” So she was…

0:27:14.8 Mike Vacanti: You should?

0:27:16.0 Jordan Syatt: She was telling her clients to keep it in their house and that time they need to work on it. And I was like, this is a terrible, terrible strategy. Someone who’s actively… It’s like having someone who’s actively recovering from alcoholism and being like, okay, well just go…

0:27:29.3 Mike Vacanti: Keep that booze…

0:27:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Keep in it the house. Or just go sit at a bar. Just go sit at the bar and don’t drink it. It’s like, well, just keep it in your house and don’t binge on it. Okay. There’s a progression here. And if you know that you’re not gonna be able to do that, let’s just be objective and say that this isn’t in my means right now.

0:27:44.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that might be a good place where you want to end up.

0:27:47.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes, yes, exactly.

0:27:48.7 Mike Vacanti: But, yes, when you’re in the thick of it, it’s not the starting point.

0:27:51.9 Jordan Syatt: Correct, exactly.

0:27:53.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And I also, I’m trying to think if I’m being objective thinking about this or not. Like, yes, peanut butter is bingeable, but it also has… Like, there are mild health benefits. I almost want to call it almond butter instead of peanut butter, but, like, there are mild health benefits to that food, whereas there are physiological. Whereas there are none to an M&M cookie.

0:28:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always found it interesting that a lot of these people who diet down super, super lean end up really wanting these super high fat foods. It’s actually like, behaviorally and evolutionarily, it makes all the sense in the world. Because if you’re not dieted down super lean, you don’t want to be eating tons of peanut butter. Like…

0:28:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Sounds gross.

0:28:37.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s disgusting. But if you’re, if you’re like shredded and like you’ve been restricting these higher fat food, like peanut butter like eating a whole jar, it sounds weird to someone who hasn’t done it, but somebody who’s been shredded is like, I’ll eat the whole fucking jar of peanut butter. Like, that is a physiological evolutionary response to you being like, I need more fat. Literally.

0:29:00.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s an incredible point. That is a very astute point, Jordan. Well done. I remember… You remember that brand peanut butter company, it had like a monkey on the…

0:29:09.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Dude so… Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

0:29:11.9 Mike Vacanti: When I was at one of my most shredded points, 2014, I remember eating a whole thing of the vanilla… It’s like vanilla…

0:29:23.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That stuff was so good.

0:29:24.5 Mike Vacanti: Unbelievable. I mean, those… In fairness, they were only like 12 servings per, so it was probably 190, 12… Like 2200 cals only. But…

0:29:33.4 Jordan Syatt: Only.

0:29:34.3 Mike Vacanti: You know, it wasn’t like a 36 serving big thing of Jif where you’re… You’re putting four or… I don’t know, like, 7,000 calories down in a sitting.

0:29:43.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was… But I mean, for me, that would be over my maintenance for the day. Just that jar.

0:29:50.6 Mike Vacanti: Of course. But if we’re talking real binge, not like, oh, my gosh, I binged. I ate a bag of chips. Like actual, you know, five, six, seven, 8,000 calorie.

0:30:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:30:01.9 Mike Vacanti: Extravaganzas.

0:30:03.4 Jordan Syatt: I thought it was interesting when you did your 10,000 calorie challenges on YouTube, which are still up for people who want to go watch? I thought it was interesting when you… Like, after you did those, you had a greater propensity to start binging.

0:30:16.5 Mike Vacanti: Oh, my gosh. The day…

0:30:17.5 Jordan Syatt: Like after you ate…

0:30:18.1 Mike Vacanti: After I ate one of them…

0:30:21.7 Jordan Syatt: You just wanted to eat so much when you weren’t hungry.

0:30:23.4 Mike Vacanti: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

0:30:25.2 Jordan Syatt: How it was like, just doing that one time led to being like, oh, shit. Like, I can see how this becomes almost a horrible habit.

0:30:31.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was… The feeling was, I know that I’m not physiologically hungry, but I want these certain types of foods, like, to feel a certain… Like, I woke up and just wanted to eat donuts with no protein with them.

0:30:48.9 Jordan Syatt: That’s how I wake up every day.

0:30:52.1 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s not. That’s not true.

0:30:57.7 Jordan Syatt: No. Like, I… Listen, I have Greek yogurt…

0:31:01.4 Mike Vacanti: That’s not true.

0:31:01.7 Jordan Syatt: And blackberries and pomegranate seeds on an almost daily basis right now. But I am much more okay with low to no protein meals than you are.

0:31:13.1 Mike Vacanti: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

0:31:14.8 Jordan Syatt: Like, the other day, I just had a snack. It was just carrots. It’s Passover, so we’re no bread right now. But carrots, olive oil, and hummus. That was…

0:31:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Great. I love that. I love that.

0:31:29.7 Jordan Syatt: And I was like, yeah, Mike would be like, where the fuck is the protein?

0:31:33.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I would. But yes. And what… We’re way more malleable than we think in multiple ways. Right? Like, if one day of force feeding leads to a greater propensity to desire those foods. I have also noticed the opposite. Like, A day or…

0:31:54.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah.

0:31:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Two or three of saying no to things and eating sufficient fruits and vegetables and healthier foods also makes you more likely to want those foods. So it doesn’t just work to the bad side. It also works to the good, which is really, really good to know that your current desires, whether it’s around food or anything in life, can be changed by your behavior.

0:32:21.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s a great point.

0:32:22.4 Mike Vacanti: But it’s not easy to change your behavior when you’re not… When you’re wanting to eat the crap, it’s hard to sit down and eat whatever, a sweet potato and fish and some broccoli and not finish it off with a dessert. But the more you do that, the more normal that’s going to be and the more you’re going to want those types of foods.

0:32:43.2 Jordan Syatt: I was listening to this rabbi. He’s awesome. Might have been Rabbi Shais Taub. Amazing, amazing man. And he had this whole bit… I think I’m attributing it to the right rabbi. Apologies if I’m not. But he was basically saying, you know those moments where you’re craving something that you know you shouldn’t. It could be a thing or an action. You’re craving something that you want or craving something to do, and you know you shouldn’t do it for any number of reasons. In that moment, you’re closest to God. Like, you get to decide what you do there. It’s like, this is a moment in which you’re very, very close. Like, you’re having conversations with yourself. Should I do this? Should I not do this? And it’s like, it’s an opportunity to get closer to what is spiritually right, to get closer to God. We’re choosing the right thing.

0:33:33.7 Jordan Syatt: And that, for me, has actually been in those moments of… In those moments, he gave another example. I’ll frame it this way. You see a parent walking with a child out of a grocery store. And the parent is, like, holding the child’s hand, but, like, tugging the kid along, like, angrily. The kid… The parent is obviously upset with the child. Gets in the car, and the parent turns around and starts yelling at the kid. And then you’re in the car right next to them, but the parent doesn’t know that you’re there.

0:34:07.2 Jordan Syatt: And soon the… Eventually the parent looks into the window and sees that you’re watching. And all of a sudden, everything changes. Oh, you’re more calm. You’re not yelling at the kid, da, da, da da. It’s like when you think no one is watching, it’s easier to act in a certain way, but you know what the right thing to do is. You know the right way to act. You’re just not doing it because you think no one is watching. And so it’s in those moments where you realize, like in… Whatever anyone’s belief is, I’m just saying what the rabbi was saying. Is like, that if you know God is watching and you’re in these moments, it’s an amazing opportunity for you to get closer to your God or to whatever you believe it is…

0:34:50.9 Mike Vacanti: To God.

0:34:51.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:34:53.5 Mike Vacanti: We’re not going into moral relativism here on the Personal Trainer Podcast. It’s a great point. It’s a great point. There’s also… Yet through temptation. You know, I’ve seen many people want to have their temptations lifted or pray to have their temptations removed. And some of the wisdom and responses I’ve heard is along the lines of if your temptations were to be removed, like you are saying, that takes away an opportunity to get closer to God.

0:35:31.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:35:32.4 Mike Vacanti: It takes away an opportunity for you to do the right thing. It takes away an opportunity for you to have faith in him and do what is right in that moment.

0:35:41.3 Jordan Syatt: Yep. Yeah. And you’ll be presented with opportunities to display that you have control over these temptations. Like, you don’t know if the temptations have been… Like, you might think, okay, I want to remove all these temptations. But it’s not that you want the temptations removed. It’s that you want the ability to not give in to those temptations. And the only way to prove that is through being presented with those opportunities.

0:36:05.4 Mike Vacanti: Yes. Yes. It’s like, okay, God, make me brave. What do you think’s gonna happen? You’re gonna be given things that make you fearful.

0:36:16.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:36:17.2 Mike Vacanti: So that you have the opportunity to act brave, to act with courage.

0:36:21.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:36:22.8 Mike Vacanti: Make me an honest man, please. Okay, here’s an easy opportunity to lie right here.

0:36:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:36:27.2 Mike Vacanti: Right? It’s not just going to remove all the opportunities it’s going to… Things are going to get harder, not easier.

0:36:32.7 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah. It’s exactly right.

0:36:34.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s what I got. Should we fire up some questions?

0:36:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Did I notice a difference in questions in anonymous versus regular?

0:36:40.4 Mike Vacanti: Did you?

0:36:41.1 Jordan Syatt: I honestly didn’t really notice a difference in the anonymous questions. Like, there are people who will say pretty wild shit not anonymously. I didn’t actually get really that wild stuff in the anonymous one. Yeah…

0:36:55.4 Mike Vacanti: Good.

0:36:56.4 Jordan Syatt: The only bad part with the anonymous one is I couldn’t reply to people directly because the people who are sending really nice messages, I always like to reply to them individually. And I couldn’t do it, which sucked. So I’m glad that my Q and A got fixed so I can actually reply to those people. But I actually… And I only have a small sample size of a couple times I did it. But I will regularly get wild shit in my in my Q and A’s. And I did not get any more than usual. It might have even gotten less anonymously.

0:37:28.0 Mike Vacanti: Good. I think it speaks to your audience. Good one.

0:37:31.3 Jordan Syatt: Someone asked, “Can you add calf exercises to your Inner Circle program?” I can. What I’ll say is this, number one is I’ve just never really cared about growing my calves. What I will say is a lot of the ankle mobility work does inherently work your calves. But, and this is for everyone, whether you do the Inner Circle workouts or not. If there’s… If there’s ever a muscle group that you want to work individually, you can always either do it before or after the work. Just add three to six sets of an exercise that targets that muscle group one or two times a week and you’re good. That’s like… That’s all you need to do.

0:38:18.3 Mike Vacanti: Unless you’re working one on one with a coach, then request it.

0:38:21.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:38:24.4 Mike Vacanti: Because I don’t need, I don’t need anyone doing nine extra sets of chest at the end of a workout just because they’re feeling…

0:38:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct.

0:38:31.8 Mike Vacanti: But what you’re saying…

0:38:32.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:38:32.5 Mike Vacanti: Generally speaking, absolutely. Adding a few sets of a lagging body part or just something that’s fun for you to hit, great idea.

0:38:41.0 Jordan Syatt: But especially for a body part that hasn’t been included in the program, because I’m not really doing much for calves. Occasionally I’ll do a little bit here and there. But if you’re already doing… If you’re doing upper body and you have chest exercises, then no, you don’t need to do that. But if… Like, I don’t do shrugs, I don’t do really upper trap exercises in the inner circle. So if someone’s like, hey, I want to build my traps, okay, three to six sets a couple times a week, you’re good.

0:39:04.6 Mike Vacanti: I’m especially okay with it if it’s an isolation exercise where you’re not going to accumulate a ton of systemic fatigue. If you’re like, Yeah. There’s no barbell back squats in this program and I really like them. So I’m going to start my leg day with five working sets of barbell back squats. It’s like, well, I wasn’t planning on you doing that much lower body volume at X intensity, but yes, in general adding some isolation work, no problem.

0:39:33.9 Jordan Syatt: Do you suggest we take creatine if we take a GLP-1 since it messes with our muscle loss? I’ll start with saying for all the coaches listening…

0:39:42.4 Mike Vacanti: You’ve really gone into, I don’t get to pick anymore. We just answer, we just answer.

0:39:48.4 Jordan Syatt: Well that’s it. This an important one. I didn’t want to give you an option to say no. For if you’re a coach and you have not yet realized that millions of people are taking GLP-1s, that’s a big fucking problem.

0:40:04.0 Mike Vacanti: I mean it was over 15 million in the US alone as of like multiple months ago. So…

0:40:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So this is a big thing whether you agree with it or not. So that’s number one. Number two is to answer the question… Or actually to not answer the question, to continue to go off. If you are a coach and you know, millions of people are on GLP-1s who have historically struggled with losing weight and are now getting help and are having an easier time with weight loss and you are not discussing what they need to do while taking these GLP-1s. That’s a big problem. You need to be discussing why they need to be strength training and what they need to do to make the results of these GLP-1s long lasting and beneficial for their health. That’s number two.

0:40:56.0 Jordan Syatt: What I’ll say in response to this question, she, she said, since it messes with our muscle loss. GLP-1s don’t inherently cause you to lose muscle. If you’re eating… If you’re strength training and eating sufficient protein and everything else is fine, you’re not going to lose muscle on a GLP-1 as long as sufficient protein and sufficient strength training and you’re not under eating dramatically. Those are the most important things.

0:41:21.4 Mike Vacanti: I like that you put that third caveat on. Because even if you’re not on a GLP-1, the size of the calorie deficit and the length of time you’re in a deficit are very relevant for your ability to retain all muscle versus lose muscle. And so whether you’re on a GLP-1 or not, if you’re in too big of a deficit for too long, I don’t care how much protein you’re eating or how much you’re strength training, you’re going to lose muscle.

0:41:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct.

0:41:50.4 Mike Vacanti: But to your point, do they inherently make you lose muscle? No, of course not.

0:41:55.2 Jordan Syatt: So do I think you should take creatine? Listen, I don’t think it’s really bad to recommend creatine in general. Here’s what I think. I think that if someone is taking creatine very often, they will be more likely to take their strength training more seriously. Right? It’s like the, the psychology of once you start taking… You start investing in a supplement and this supplement, you know, is good for X, Y or Z thing. Then you’re more… Okay, well, I might as well be strength training because I’m already… I’m investing the supplement.

0:42:25.5 Jordan Syatt: So I don’t think creatine is necessary. I do think there are clear benefits to it and I don’t think it would be harmful. But from a psychological perspective, for people who’ve historically struggled to get in the gym and strength train, I do see a benefit of take this supplement. It’s going to help your strength training and then it will hopefully give them a little bit of external motivation, maybe even a little bit of a placebo to get them in there more and taking the action that we want them to take.

0:42:52.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. GLP-1 or no GLP-1, if you’re strength training, there are minor benefits for strength gain, muscle retention in a deficit and muscle gain to taking creatine, you know, any creatine. But creatine monohydrate is plenty sufficient. And so sure, I do recommend it. I will say that… I’ll leave it at that.

0:43:23.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:43:23.9 Mike Vacanti: I won’t leave it at that. I think that the average person who takes… And you know what? This is going to piss people off and that’s okay. I think the average person who takes a GLP-1 is going to be less likely to strength train than someone who is trying to lose weight and isn’t taking a GLP-1. Until the person taking the GLP-1 realizes that… The person taking the GLP-1 and not lifting realizes, like, okay, the scale’s going down, but I’m actually not liking the way my body is transforming. I think that’s the catalyst for them to take their strength training more seriously.

0:44:04.8 Mike Vacanti: I could be wrong on that, but I think that’s probably right. I actually had a fifth funny thing that I left out, but now it’s relevant, which is a friend of a friend, distant person in my life, the person who’s like, the connection between us just said, hey, should this person be taking creatine? They’ve read it’s super popular and whatever, but they’ve never lifted and they don’t plan on lifting, but they’re just taking it because apparently creatine’s gonna make everything in their life better.

0:44:44.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s what people are promoting it as.

0:44:46.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:44:47.2 Jordan Syatt: People are promoting it as this, like, wonder supplement that everyone needs to be taking.

0:44:50.9 Mike Vacanti: Which I think is why… Well, is almost certainly why it has skyrocketed in popularity.

0:44:57.1 Jordan Syatt: What is your number one favorite protein source?

0:45:00.4 Mike Vacanti: I don’t have a favorite.

0:45:01.6 Jordan Syatt: Cool.

0:45:02.1 Mike Vacanti: I could name five, but I can’t name one.

0:45:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Name five.

0:45:05.9 Mike Vacanti: Chicken breast, whole egg. Because that gives me egg white and egg yolk. If I just want to have the yolk… Or sorry, if I just want to have the whites. And I know it’s very trendy to just be a whole egg person these days, but a whole egg is primarily fat. It isn’t primarily protein. Right? There’s 5 grams of fat in a whole egg. And 70 cals. 5, 9, 45. You’re getting more than… It’s more than half fat. Yes, there’s tons of micronutrients in the egg. Yes, I eat the egg. Yes, everyone should eat the egg. But the people who are like, don’t eat egg whites. That’s a bad protein. No, it’s not. Egg whites are straight protein. It’s an OG bodybuilder food. Whether you want whole eggs or egg whites, make it fit your day. Hit your protein, your calories, etcetera. Number three, ground beef. It’s a staple. I guess we’ll just say cow for number three. That gives me more than just one cut of protein. Number four is salmon. And number five, it’s my favorite protein. Probably like a protein powder for convenience to get in the mix there.

0:46:26.6 Jordan Syatt: This is interesting. This will be interesting for the coaches. Someone asked me, “How do I deal with a coach who has given me programming but hasn’t set up the invoice? And I literally keep reminding her and haven’t paid her in months.”

0:46:38.2 Mike Vacanti: I think you’re doing everything you can.

0:46:40.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:46:40.6 Mike Vacanti: If you’re not getting billed for your coaching and you keep reminding the coach to make you pay and they’re not…

0:46:49.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s so funny. I’ve literally never heard… I’ve only heard the opposite.

0:46:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:46:52.1 Jordan Syatt: I’ve sent the invoice so many times and they haven’t paid yet. I’ve never heard this from a client struggling. It’s like, listen, you haven’t done anything wrong. I would just… You know what I would do it in this situation? Because my…

0:47:02.5 Mike Vacanti: Just send the money?

0:47:04.1 Jordan Syatt: I mean, I don’t know how you’d send it if they haven’t… Oh, you mean just find their username and send it directly? Yeah, you could do that. Or I’d be like, “Hey, I just wanna let you know if you send me an invoice for a large sum of money in like six months, that’s not going to work. Like, I want to do this monthly. So send this immediately because if you say, hey, I owe you $3,000 in a year, like, that’s not gonna work at all.”

0:47:28.7 Mike Vacanti: From the coach’s side, I wonder in this specific instance if this is someone who’s a newer coach and has some pretty bad imposter syndrome and, like, doesn’t feel like they’re good enough to be charging.

0:47:41.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:47:42.6 Mike Vacanti: In which case you are like, the market speaks. If someone wants your services and wants to pay you, like, you can accept that money.

0:47:52.2 Jordan Syatt: Do you regret any tattoos? Asking because I’m so close to getting my first.

0:47:56.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I got one removed. I wish I never got tattoos.

0:48:04.3 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:48:05.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:48:06.1 Jordan Syatt: Why?

0:48:09.4 Mike Vacanti: I don’t want to get into it on the pod. Let me just…

0:48:12.9 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:48:13.7 Mike Vacanti: There’s… Yeah, I just wish I didn’t get any tattoos. And I…

0:48:20.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s so funny.

0:48:21.3 Mike Vacanti: Not many. Like…

0:48:22.8 Jordan Syatt: Are you going to remove the other one?

0:48:25.0 Mike Vacanti: Maybe there’s… Even for things that are profoundly meaningful, this could just be a mic issue. Like, I get sick of things. There’s the meaning, the things… What something means to you changes over time. And exposure to the same thing repeatedly for the rest of your life, it’s not going to mean the same thing as when you originally got it. So if the reason you’re getting something is for its meaning, understand that that’s going to change.

0:49:09.4 Jordan Syatt: I remember in third grade I wanted to get a yin yang tattoo. I’m really glad I didn’t. I also wanted to get that, you know, that S that you could make like with the six lines.

0:49:19.1 Mike Vacanti: I sure do. I sure do.

0:49:20.2 Jordan Syatt: I wanted that tattooed as well. I’m really glad… I’m really glad third graders aren’t allowed to get tattoos because I really wanted that.

0:49:25.9 Mike Vacanti: They should increase. I don’t think 18-year-olds should be able to get tattoos.

0:49:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, man. Well, if they did that, then 18-year-olds definitely shouldn’t be allowed to join military. That’s my… That’s where my thought goes. If they can’t get tattoos. If you… Here’s what I think. If you can’t do something, you can’t be in the military. That’s where my brain goes. It’s just not fair.

0:49:48.0 Mike Vacanti: Maybe that’s right. Maybe that’s right. You recruit.

0:49:51.0 Jordan Syatt: But 18-year-olds are like, what a military needs. Like, you need young crazy. Just dudes. Yeah. You just need young crazy dudes to… Like, that’s what a military needs. That’s what a military thrives on.

0:50:03.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Or at least up until this point in human history, it has. Who knows with it AI…

0:50:07.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude.

0:50:08.2 Mike Vacanti: What level or how much that is going to be.

0:50:11.7 Jordan Syatt: Warfare is gonna be… It’s, dude, so crazy. Especially like with drones. It’s like the human aspect of it is I don’t think it’ll ever go away because humans will always be affected by it. But the foot soldier or the special operations. Special operations soldiers or infantry or whatever, like the operators, man, you… You need some crazy fucking people. You need some like Tim Kennedy style people who are just absolutely insane, who are like, I’m really glad that they’re the ones protecting us because, you know.

0:50:45.5 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely.

0:50:46.3 Jordan Syatt: And you… When you meet one of them in person, you’re like, oh, yeah, okay.

0:50:48.6 Mike Vacanti: This makes sense.

0:50:49.0 Jordan Syatt: This makes total sense that you’re the one who’s doing that. Because as sure as shit I couldn’t do it.

0:50:56.4 Mike Vacanti: Do you regret any of your tattoos?

0:50:58.0 Jordan Syatt: Do I regret mine?

0:50:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:51:00.7 Jordan Syatt: No, I don’t regret them. I do… Here’s the way I think about it. The artwork that I got on the one when I was 17, I used a fake ID to get it. I didn’t have any… I didn’t have a lot of money. I used a fake ID. I used Evan Biller’s ID to go to a place in New Hampshire to get it. And my buddies David and Tucker came with me and they both said that they were also gonna get one and then they didn’t. I was the only one that got it.

0:51:29.8 Mike Vacanti: Were they also 17?

0:51:31.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:51:32.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:51:32.7 Jordan Syatt: I know Tucker was either… Because Tucker’s birthday is in February. He was either 18. He was either almost 18, or… Or not. So he was very close. David is younger than me, so he was definitely 17 as well.

0:51:45.8 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:51:46.3 Jordan Syatt: But this place in New Hampshire is what… Like, they didn’t even need my ID. They were… They were gonna do it anyway. I actually, I got the name of this place from a janitor at my high school.

0:51:57.5 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:51:58.2 Jordan Syatt: Bruce.

0:51:58.8 Mike Vacanti: Cool.

0:52:00.4 Jordan Syatt: Love Bruce. Awesome, dude. I was like, Bruce, where’d you get your tattoos? He’s like, this place in New Hampshire. I was like, do you think they’ll give me a tattoo? He’s like, yeah, you should bring a fake ID, but you can go get it.

0:52:12.0 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna ask you another question because I think I know the answer. Do you regret anything in life?

0:52:17.7 Jordan Syatt: I regret not getting an email list when I was told to get an email list.

0:52:20.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:52:21.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s like the one major business regret. ‘Cause I missed out on a lot. But you know, that’s… To be fair, I really don’t regret much. Like, that’s what I say now, because that is, like, my way of encouraging people to get their email list very quickly. But there isn’t really much that I regret. Sometimes there are things that I regret in terms of how I handled a situation. Maybe I shouldn’t have been so hard on somebody or like, that… I’ll regret that type of a thing. But there isn’t many things that directly affect me that I regret. It’s usually if it directly impacted somebody else, that I’ll regret it.

0:52:55.1 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:52:56.6 Jordan Syatt: For me, it’s usually. It just makes a good story. Like, this is a good story. You know, Bruce gave me a… Gave me the tattoo shop name. I drove my buddies. I got this tattoo. I would prefer the artwork to be better. I would like it if it was better artwork. But at this point, it’s also part of the story, right? It’s like, whatever. Like, I’m personally, I’m very much just like, oh, whatever. Like, it’s okay. It’s not that big of a deal for me, but I would… If I’m like, objectively, I would love it if the artwork was better, but also, whatever. Like, it’s not a big deal.

0:53:27.8 Mike Vacanti: Got it. So you can’t, like… You can’t rewrite the past. Everything can’t be perfect. So you’re not even gonna…

0:53:33.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

0:53:35.1 Mike Vacanti: I feel like… And I have been a… I’ve done this many, many times, which is taken what I think is a… I don’t know if it’s popular or if I learned it through imitation of others, but just saying I don’t regret anything when I think there probably are things… I don’t know. Do you feel like it’s… It’s cool to say you don’t have regrets? Not you, but like, anyone.

0:54:03.8 Jordan Syatt: No, I think… I think it’s a defense mechanism is what it is. I think saying I don’t have any regrets is a way just to be like, these are the choices I made. I wouldn’t be where I am right now if I hadn’t made those choices. When, objectively speaking, there are things that you could have done that were wrong. Like ways that I handled certain situations objectively wrong. I should have handled it better. And I regret that it negatively impacted somebody else. For me, I can deal with shit that I imposed on myself. That’s fine. But when it impacts somebody else, that’s when I really regret it. So I think it’s mostly a defense mechanism for people.

0:54:33.0 Mike Vacanti: That’s that’s astute.

0:54:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Two astutes in one pod. That’s a high praise.

0:54:38.3 Mike Vacanti: Did I say astute before? I thought I said acute before.

0:54:40.9 Jordan Syatt: No, you said it was astute when I brought up the high fat peanut butter stuff with the competitors. And I was like, oh, yeah, let’s go. When I get called astute two times in a pod, that’s good.

0:54:50.8 Mike Vacanti: Is it? Or do I just have a low verbal IQ?

0:54:53.2 Jordan Syatt: Well, you just really ruined that compliment. Is it a good compliment or do I just suck? Like, my compliments to you mean nothing.

0:55:02.5 Mike Vacanti: No, no, no, it still means something. Just didn’t have another word.

0:55:06.5 Jordan Syatt: I love the tattoos on my arm.

0:55:08.1 Mike Vacanti: Regret’s interesting.

0:55:09.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, regret is very interesting. I think it’s easier to be like, oh, I wouldn’t be where I am today. It’s like… Yeah, but where could you have been if you didn’t do.

0:55:19.7 Mike Vacanti: For sure.

0:55:20.1 Jordan Syatt: Maybe you’d be in a better spot. And maybe someone else would be in a better spot if you hadn’t spoken the way you had spoken or treated them in the way you treated them. That’s for me for sure. Like, I never want someone to feel… I never like making people feel bad or less than, you know… So that… That for me is like… Like one of my biggest regrets, I’ve spoken about this is when I was really mad at my mom when I was a kid for telling her that organic is the only way to eat and that, like, if you’re not eating organic, then you’re poisoning yourself. Because that’s what I believed at the time. But, like, looking back, I regret it because I know she was working super hard to make money and to feed us and she could… Literally couldn’t afford organic. And I 100%, she felt bad because I was so adamant about it and she couldn’t afford it. That… One of my biggest regrets for sure. But it’s more about how it impacted someone else. Not about… Not about me.

0:56:10.9 Mike Vacanti: I gotcha. I think that’s probably somewhat common, is to have regrets about things that you did to someone else.

0:56:20.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:56:20.6 Mike Vacanti: More than to yourself.

0:56:22.6 Jordan Syatt: Do you regret anything? Aside your tattoos?

0:56:25.5 Mike Vacanti: Tons. Tons. Absolutely.

0:56:27.7 Jordan Syatt: I like your tattoos forever it’s worth.

0:56:29.9 Mike Vacanti: Thank you. I’ve also grown to just not like tattoos. Like, not just mine. Like, I just don’t…

0:56:38.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:56:39.4 Mike Vacanti: I got tattoos because I thought they would remind me of important lessons every time I look down on them. And one of them I can’t see, and the one that I can see, I erased because I didn’t really like that lesson five years later. But, yeah, you know, things that I maybe said to someone when I was younger because I was angry or… Yeah, I think what you… Think you covered that very astutely, Jordan. Very…

0:57:13.6 Jordan Syatt: Three times baby. Three times.

0:57:17.7 Mike Vacanti: All right, one more. Rapid fire. Rapid fire and we’re out of here because we have a mentorship Q and A in nine minutes. We are all prepped and ready to go. We got a bunch of good questions in that one.

0:57:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Someone asked your thoughts on the Harvard situation? Not really a rapid fire question.

0:57:33.5 Mike Vacanti: I like rapid firing things that shouldn’t…

0:57:35.9 Jordan Syatt: That are super incendiary?

0:57:38.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know what the Harvard situation is.

0:57:41.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, really?

0:57:42.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And I didn’t mean incendiary. I meant things that are complex.

0:57:49.4 Jordan Syatt: Got it.

0:57:49.6 Mike Vacanti: I think we are living through an era of neckbeardism and I think sometimes there are yes and no answers. But I don’t know what the Harvard situation is.

0:58:01.1 Jordan Syatt: Do you want me to tell you or go to the next question?

0:58:02.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m guessing it has something to do with like federal funding and something to do with…

0:58:12.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s an amazing guess if you had no idea.

0:58:14.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m thinking of the way that maybe I subconsciously knew. I’m thinking of the way that colleges have been behaving over the last few years. And so I would imagine it has something to do with treatment of certain groups on campus.

0:58:30.7 Jordan Syatt: Yes, correct.

0:58:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Am I just nailing this right now?

0:58:32.8 Jordan Syatt: Yes, correct. Well, it depends on what side of the propaganda stream you’re getting information from. One side will say that it’s attack on education and science and the other side… Listen. Yes. You’re 100% on point. Correct. That it is federal funding. A huge amount of federal funding is being pulled from a… From this university, from Harvard, because they haven’t been complying with major, major, major issues. It was funny because I was talking to my mom about this and she hadn’t realized what had been going on in these campuses. And so I have colleagues, I’ll say, who are either students on that campus or were students on that campus also professors on Columbia’s campus who were assaulted, who were not allowed to get into their classrooms because they were Jewish, nevermind Israeli, but like actually like barricaded, not allowed to get in. And they were just known to be Jewish. So like they weren’t allowed.

0:59:33.6 Jordan Syatt: And never mind, The president of Harvard at a hearing responded to Elise Stefanik who said, “Is it okay to call for the genocide of Jews on your campus?” And the president said, “It depends on the context.” It’s like imagine saying that about any other group. Like, is it okay to call for the genocide of Blacks. Is it okay to call for the genocide of Asians? Is it okay? The answer would never be, “it depends on the context.” The answer would be no. Unequivocally, it’s not okay. And all these videos are freely available online. The hearing is fully available online.

1:00:08.3 Jordan Syatt: And the Trump administration is like, listen, if you’re not adhering to these major issues that Jewish students are being assaulted and barred from getting to classes on your campus, then we’re going to pull funding. And essentially what the other side is framing it as, this is an attack on science because they’re taking it from science. It’s like, okay, we got a big problem. Number one is this isn’t the first time in history an administration has removed public funding from a school. If a school has… When a school was not adhering to discrimination laws, so when they were still segregating, when they shouldn’t be segregating, the government removed federal funding.

1:00:53.4 Jordan Syatt: When they weren’t properly going after those who were committing sexual assaults and sexual violence, they pulled federal funding. So now that it’s mainly anti-Semitic attacks, they’re pulling federal funding. And so this isn’t the first time. This isn’t unprecedented. And this isn’t about science. This is about not adhering to and not allowing for the safety of an entire group of people on your campus. So, yeah, there’s a huge, huge, huge amount. And not to mention, I think it’s interesting when you look at how much money this school has, which is worth $56 billion, why is the American taxpayer funding that?

1:01:35.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s another conversation.

1:01:37.6 Jordan Syatt: Why is the American taxpayer funding this university of $56 billion? It’s like, I’d rather that go to homeless people. I’d rather go to getting people access to healthier foods. Going back to our food stamp conversation, let’s set up a service where people who live in food deserts can get fresh foods delivered to their homes. Rather than sending billions of dollars to university that is already like making literally over… It’s worth over $50 billion. We don’t need to be sending more money to that school. Let’s get it to the people who need it.

1:02:07.6 Mike Vacanti: Tell ’em, Jordan. By the way, it literally just went off… I don’t know if it was in the Dave Smith, Douglas Murray conversation that you and I had spoken about a whole bunch off the pod or maybe Dave Smith’s recap after. Somewhere there was a Dave Smith reference of the Harvard situation lodged in the back of my subconscious. So I think that’s where I got it from.

1:02:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Mm-hmm. That’s where you got it from. Got it, got it, got it. Yeah. That’s the Harvard sitch.

1:02:31.0 Mike Vacanti: Great episode. Sign us off, Jordan.

1:02:34.4 Jordan Syatt: Thank you everyone for listening. We hope you appreciate and enjoy the podcast. If you do, please leave a five star review wherever you’re listening, whether it’s on iTunes, whether it’s on Spotify. If you’re watching on YouTube, please give it a thumbs up. Subscribe to the channel if you don’t already. Have a wonderful, wonderful week. Talk to you soon.

1:02:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Keep pounding that creatine, too.

1:02:51.6 Jordan Syatt: See ya.