Episode 227: Enough with The Seed Oil Propaganda, Quit Giving Into Your Impulsive Pleasures, Mike’s Insane Fat Loss Macros, & More…

0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Dad?

0:00:12.8 Mike Vacanti: Can you see the spit up on my sweatshirt?

0:00:15.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, of course I can.

0:00:16.6 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:00:17.4 Jordan Syatt: I’m not blind…

0:00:18.3 Mike Vacanti: I just wanted to call that out because I realized it two minutes before this and there wasn’t time to get a new sweatshirt. So I’m just gonna be gross unfortunately.

0:00:28.5 Jordan Syatt: You’re not gross. You’re a dad, bro.

0:00:30.3 Mike Vacanti: So are you, Dad. I got a story. I got a story to lead this podcast.

0:00:34.0 Jordan Syatt: Let’s hear it.

0:00:34.6 Mike Vacanti: You’re ready for this? Couple days ago, I’m downstairs right here at my desk, locked in on client updates, programs, emails. I got a few hour window where I’m really trying to crush it. Wife’s got the baby upstairs. I’m deep in the zone. It’s probably 5:35, 45pm, hear the doorbell ring. I’m like all right, hopefully that can just get handled. We get a lot of random solicitors and things of that nature. My wife calls me immediately when the doorbell ring. I was like okay, shoot. So I ran up there figuring something was going on with the baby, so I gotta get the door. As I’m going up the stairs, I hear bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

0:01:15.5 Jordan Syatt: What the fuck?

0:01:16.5 Mike Vacanti: Seven big knocks on the door. Well, yeah, that’s super obnoxious because this person rang the doorbell 11 seconds ago and now they did seven big knocks. And so I continue, make my way to the door and I peek to see what’s going on out there. And it’s this probably early 20s dude in a collared shirt that says Solar. Like a golf shirt.

0:01:41.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh my gosh.

0:01:42.8 Mike Vacanti: And we’ve got a few of these. You get people selling different things in the neighborhood, but this guy’s trying to sell me solar panels for my roof and I’m feeling a little spicy. My wife’s got the baby on the boob, back on the couch. And it’s just, I’m like why is this guy here? Why is he knocking seven times right after he rings the doorbell? I’m annoyed. And so I knock seven times on my window.

0:02:15.8 Jordan Syatt: You knock back?

0:02:17.1 Mike Vacanti: I knocked back seven times while I’m looking out the window. And then I just gave him a little wave, see ya pal. See ya. Not interested. See ya.

0:02:26.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:02:27.3 Mike Vacanti: And I… Bro, I walk back away from my front door. Seven more knocks.

0:02:35.1 Jordan Syatt: Shut up.

0:02:36.0 Mike Vacanti: Uh-huh.

0:02:37.4 Jordan Syatt: Legit seven. One, two, three, four… Seven?

0:02:40.9 Mike Vacanti: Seven. Seven knocks. I beeline it right back to the door. I open the door, the smallest crack I’m I got an infant in here. I’m not interested. And slam the door. Before I can even slam the door, this guy goes into his pitch.

0:02:57.7 Jordan Syatt: Shut up.

0:02:58.6 Mike Vacanti: He goes, no worries. And then just immediately starts. And I can hear him as I’m shutting the door. He says, no worries as I’m shutting the door. And has already launched into his pitch to overcome the obstacle or whatever. These young 20… Whatever these young 20 sales kids who are hard selling door to door, are learning. And so whatever. I just lock the door, go away. Hear him continuing to talk after the door has been shut, and then immediately went on Amazon, bought enough solicitors sign and put it up the next day.

0:03:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, good, good. Wow, that’s crazy.

0:03:36.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:03:36.7 Jordan Syatt: Are you gonna put up a sign on the door and be like, hey, we got a baby inside. Don’t knock or even ring the doorbell. Just text me or something?

0:03:43.4 Mike Vacanti: No.

0:03:44.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:03:44.8 Mike Vacanti: Because honestly I don’t know, maybe there is an age where a doorbell would impact a kid. I don’t think it actually impacts her that much. I was just pissed.

0:03:56.4 Jordan Syatt: Is it illegal for solicitors to knock on your door if you have that sign? Is that illegal?

0:04:03.1 Mike Vacanti: I groked it. It’s state by state, and it’s actually county by county. Within each state, there are various laws. I know that it is illegal for them to stay on your property after you ask them to leave if you have a no soliciting sign, but they…

0:04:23.6 Jordan Syatt: Wouldn’t that be illegal for them to stay on your property regardless, it’s your property.

0:04:27.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I would imagine. But I don’t think, ’cause I groked, I was literally like if you have a no soliciting sign and someone knocks on your door, can you call the cops? Can you take legal action immediately? This is the mood I was in after, and it doesn’t sound like you can, which is insane.

0:04:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Then what’s the point of the no soliciting sign? Just so they can know ahead of time they’re about to get reamed out?

0:04:49.5 Mike Vacanti: I actually don’t know. However, I know some people who have put up no soliciting signs and they seem to work so.

0:04:58.6 Jordan Syatt: Cool. Did you put it right in front of your door?

0:05:00.6 Mike Vacanti: I got a sticker that goes on the ring camera thing. And so as they’re pushing the doorbell a centimeter away from their finger, it says no soliciting.

0:05:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Got it, got it, got it, got it. Nice, nice.

0:05:16.6 Mike Vacanti: We’ll see.

0:05:17.6 Jordan Syatt: Good. Hopefully that works.

0:05:19.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, I know it. And that reminded me of the type of salesmanship that we see so many masterminds and gurus and sponsored posts and, bro you know there’s 40 business mentorships now. Not a mastermind, not a whatever. They’re all mentorship. They call them all mentorships. Everyone’s got a mentorship now.

0:05:41.3 Jordan Syatt: Wow. They stole it. They stole it right from under our fucking noses.

0:05:44.9 Mike Vacanti: We didn’t invent the word, obviously.

0:05:46.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, we invented it.

0:05:47.6 Mike Vacanti: The word was around. But 2018, 2019, we launched and these things were called academies.

0:05:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Masterminds.

0:05:54.5 Mike Vacanti: And they were called masterminds and they had their own little lingo. And now they’re all mentorships and just tons of money into sponsored posts. I’m not gonna call this woman out by name. We had a woman who joined the mentorship within the last couple of days who told us about a terrible experience on a sales call with one of our competitors, who I’m also not gonna name with an exorbitant price and the hard used carsman type of sales…

0:06:22.3 Jordan Syatt: $10,000.

0:06:23.0 Mike Vacanti: Tactics. Yeah.

0:06:23.7 Jordan Syatt: $10,000 to join.

0:06:25.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:06:26.4 Jordan Syatt: Crazy.

0:06:27.0 Mike Vacanti: And so we have a sale in the mentorship right now. It’s $500 off. Jordan, tell them a little bit more about it.

0:06:33.5 Jordan Syatt: Before I do that. This is… It’s an important lesson based on the type of sales. We had an amazing member, I believe it was Luke. Luke brought the question up in the mentorship. Not this week, but last week. And he was like, how do you overcome certain objections?

0:06:48.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:06:49.7 Jordan Syatt: And we had a great conversation around, we don’t overcome… We don’t have a sales tactic to, oh, well, I need to talk to my spouse. Oh, here’s this objection. Here’s how you overcome it. Oh, I need to think about the price. It’s like, all these sales mastermind gurus are gonna try and give you these lines to overcome objections. And what we said to Luke and Luke was like… Luke had the best response. He was like, I’m so glad to hear that. He’s like I’m so glad. And immediately, I told Mike after the call, I was like, I like Luke a lot. Luke is a good dude.

0:07:23.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yeah.

0:07:25.0 Jordan Syatt: Because immediately he was like everyone keeps saying, you have to have the ability to overcome all these objections. And what Mike and I spoke about was, listen, our job, number one, isn’t to twist a knife. Our job… If they want to work with you, they’re gonna work with you. They are. And you don’t wanna start off a relationship by manipulating someone into working with you. Right. If they wanna work with you, they’re gonna figure it out. Right. And maybe they won’t do it in this moment. Maybe you don’t get the sale today or this week or next month, but maybe in a year, two years, three years, they’ll eventually come back to you because they’ll have tried other people, it won’t have worked. And then when they want to work with you, it’s better. Imagine trying to start a romantic relationship with someone by manipulating them into being with you. That won’t work out well long term. If you want a good long term relationship, then it’s gonna happen when they’re ready for it to happen. It’s the same thing with sales. So if you’re gonna join the mentorship to hopefully find a list of how to overcome the most common objections, you’re already doing it wrong.

0:08:27.7 Jordan Syatt: You don’t apply yet. You’re not gonna get into the mentorship. It’s not about overcoming objections, it’s about being a great coach, giving out great content, helping people for free that will eventually lead to yes, getting organic clients. But also equally, if not more importantly, your current clients will get you referrals. Right? Because you’re gonna do such a great job that they’re gonna get referrals and that’s what’s gonna build a great business. So we don’t have the objection model how to overcome objections. We’re not salespeople, we’re coaches. And a great coach can learn sales. But if you’re approaching this as a salesperson trying to be a coach it’s, you’re approaching the wrong way.

0:09:03.1 Mike Vacanti: 100%. Couldn’t agree more. It’s ineffective, it leads to a worse relationship with you and your client. It makes me feel gross in my gut. And so operating from that position I have found extremely beneficial in business and life. And we have seen through my one-on-one coaching. Through your one-on-one coaching over time, through countless people who’ve been in the mentorship from peers in the industry. When you are client focused and your sole and top priority is give the best client experience, you can help them make the best possible results, build actual relationships with your clients, you not only have less turnover, which helps in business, ’cause you don’t always have to be, oh, I’m doing a sale, I’m doing a sale, I needed two more clients, taking on three more clients. Because you have longevity with each client, you feel better about it because you’re doing what you got into this space for, for the majority of people, which is actually help people, your clients see better progress, you become a better coach. The results or the benefits are infinite.

0:10:15.2 Jordan Syatt: Completely agree. Yeah, that’s exactly right.

0:10:17.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That was a good question from Luke. And…

0:10:19.6 Jordan Syatt: And great question and he probably knew the answer. He just needed the affirmation from us being like hey, we don’t do fucking objections. And he was like oh, thank God. 

0:10:31.1 Mike Vacanti: Especially when every… 

0:10:31.9 Jordan Syatt: It feels so weird.

0:10:33.2 Mike Vacanti: When every single successful “business person in the industry” has given you a different answer.

0:10:40.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s exactly right.

0:10:41.2 Mike Vacanti: I would be questioning myself too. And it’s not just the online guru space. I gave the example of the salesperson in a commercial gym who you go and do a tour or you do a free workout and they bring you in the office after and they’re hard selling you on trying to join the gym, writing all these numbers on paper, they got you confused. They’re like, those are some of the… Those weren’t actually some of the worst experiences of my life, but those were uncomfortable and gross experiences trying to get manipulated into buying a one year package to a gym when all I wanted to do was test that gym out to see if I potentially wanted to join.

0:11:18.6 Jordan Syatt: So, yeah, mentorship’s on sale. If you want to apply to join. We would love to review your application. We haven’t accepted everybody. There have been a couple people who we’ve been it’s not a good fit right now. This isn’t… The thing is, we want the group… ‘Cause we do group calls every week. We want the group to feel good. We don’t want poison in the group. We don’t want… We want everyone to have the same overarching goal of number one, help people. There are many different groups. There are some people who… There are many different people in the group. Some people have one-on-one. Some people have more memberships, some people do more nutrition, some people do more training. There’s all different types of coaches. Some coaches are on the younger side, 18, 19, 20. Some coaches are on the older side, 65, 70, 75. But we have everything in between. But the main goal is let’s just help our clients. Number one. It’s not trying to figure out, be a six figure fucking bullshit mastermind guru. 

0:12:26.9 Mike Vacanti: It’s just, that’s just not the field.

0:12:27.8 Jordan Syatt: High ticket. Yeah, high ticket. That’s the term. Maximize dollars. Sell big packages upfront. Thousand dollar a month. Fitness coaching, it’s just gross.

0:12:42.3 Mike Vacanti: So link to apply in the show notes.

0:12:45.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:12:46.6 Mike Vacanti: And I actually had it on my list to bring up that I don’t know if this might be a bad look for us. I don’t know, you can tell me or the audience can decide, but I don’t know if you feel this way. I feel satisfaction or happiness in rejecting people, if that makes sense. And I never do in life. But when someone fills out an application and they’re don’t really have a business, I don’t even want to give examples. I don’t want people to feel bad. But I’m just gonna say the truth. When they’re like, I want to make a million dollars next year and they don’t say anything about clients in their application, it’s like, we’re sorry, you’re not a good fit. That doesn’t mean we can’t work together at some point in the future. But right now what you want to accomplish is not on par with what we’re doing here in the group. Period. End of story.

0:13:33.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And over the next year, two years, three years, you’ll probably go through some learning and experiences that will hopefully change the way that you’re viewing it. But the way that you’re currently viewing it isn’t gonna, it’s not gonna fit in the group. It’s not going to be a good fit right now. So rather than trying to just suck you in and take your money now, it’s like listen, let’s just wait. If this is what your goal is. It’s with anything, if your client comes to you and says, hey, I want to lose 50 pounds as quickly as possible, within the next week. If I hire you right now, are you gonna help me do that?

0:14:05.9 Mike Vacanti: I’ll give you five grand, by the way.

0:14:07.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Hopefully you’re not gonna be like yeah, let’s do it. Hopefully you’re gonna be like, you know what? I really don’t think this is a good fit. I take a very different approach to this. If at a certain point, a different point in time, you’re ready to and willing and able to do this more slowly and sustainably and do it the right way, then I’m your person. But for right now, it’s not gonna end well for either of us. That’s literally… That’s how it is. That’s exactly what we’re doing in the mentorship, when we say no to people.

0:14:35.7 Mike Vacanti: And that’s a win win for the coach and the client. It’s a win win for us and the trainer who’s applying, because that person’s not gonna be happy when they sign up for your services and realize you can’t help them lose all this weight in a short period of time. You’re definitely not gonna be happy, because what’s gonna happen is you’re thinking, okay, I’ll have them sign up because I need clients, I need money, et cetera. And then I can change their mind on the goals and explain to them after the fact that, hey, progress isn’t made this quickly. That needs to be… You need to get on the same page with that person up front. And so, yeah, we’re actually doing a service not only to the people who are currently in the group, but for ourselves. Those are difficult ’cause we’ve had clients.

0:15:14.9 Jordan Syatt: They’re the worst.

0:15:16.4 Mike Vacanti: They’re difficult clients on the fitness side and they’re difficult coaches on the business coaching side of things.

0:15:21.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s like when you’re dating someone and you’re like, you know that they’re not a good fit for you, but I can change them. You just got this, I could change them. I’ll just stay with them ’cause I can change them, I see the good person in them, I’m gonna change them. And then next thing you know, four years goes by and they’re abusing you and you’re like why did I do that? This was a terrible idea.

0:15:43.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yep. Good analogy.

0:15:46.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, man.

0:15:47.5 Mike Vacanti: What else, my brother? What else is on your mind?

0:15:49.9 Jordan Syatt: I had some psychotic messages on Instagram that I sent you. You saw those?

0:15:53.5 Mike Vacanti: Those were psychotic.

0:15:54.4 Jordan Syatt: Those were crazy, right?

0:15:55.4 Mike Vacanti: Those were psychotic.

0:15:57.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah. I shared a brief clip, a brief little bit of it on, on Instagram, and I got reached out to by some people in FBI who are… They were like, this is number one hate crime.

0:16:11.9 Mike Vacanti: You remember the first thing I said to you?

0:16:13.4 Jordan Syatt: No, what did you say?

0:16:14.6 Mike Vacanti: I was like, are you gonna call the cops/also get in touch with people at Facebook and Instagram and figure out who this is and press charges.

0:16:24.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, so I spoke to my lawyer and so she was like… Basically she was like, you should report it to your local police.

0:16:34.6 Mike Vacanti: Hang on, hang on. I’m sorry to jump in like this, but since when do you have a lawyer?

0:16:38.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, since I almost got evicted in my rental. Remember that whole fucking debacle?

0:16:47.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I do.

0:16:48.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s when I called a lawyer and now she’s my lawyer and she’s a savage. She’s a pit bull. 

0:16:52.3 Mike Vacanti: Dude, you’re big time.

0:16:54.7 Jordan Syatt: I’m not big time. 

0:16:55.9 Mike Vacanti: You got a lawyer.

0:16:56.7 Jordan Syatt: I literally never even paid her for anything ’cause she won’t let me pay her yet. ‘Cause I just consult. And then she’s like I haven’t even done anything for you yet, so it’s no. But she’s a real pit bull. But she was like… 

0:17:05.7 Mike Vacanti: Nice.

0:17:06.6 Jordan Syatt: She was like, call your local police. Obviously the odds of this person living in your tiny town outside of Dallas is next to nowhere, but call the police and just file it so we have a paper trail of this being a thing. And then, so I did that and then an investigator got on a call with me. They’re like yeah, this is pretty bad. This isn’t something you just want to leave. We just have to be aware of it. So the investigators are looking into it, I shared it on social media. I had this one guy who works with the FBI in South Carolina, and he was like I’m gonna connect you with some people in the Dallas area. But he was like, you need to report this. Just so… Again, just so there’s a paper trail. So, yeah, there’s that.

0:17:48.1 Mike Vacanti: Good, you reported it.

0:17:49.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah.

0:17:56.0 Mike Vacanti: My mind goes to make this practical for the audience. Everyone wants to be famous. Everyone wants a million Instagram fame.

0:18:03.2 Jordan Syatt: It’s not even followers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:18:04.1 Mike Vacanti: But there are downsides that come with this that are… I don’t know.

0:18:11.2 Jordan Syatt: It was just funny ’cause I shared it and the number of people who were like, oh my gosh, I had no idea that someone would send you something like that. It’s like, oh, you guys, you just have no idea there are crazy people out there.

0:18:24.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:18:24.9 Jordan Syatt: You just have no… That’s why I keep my family’s names private and stuff. That’s why. ‘Cause they’re fucking crazy people and they follow you, because they’re crazy.

0:18:35.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I told you that, there’s a Tim Ferriss article. I forget the name of it from 10 plus years ago on this subject. That’s really interesting. I’ll have David link it in the show notes. But yeah, there’s the law of large numbers and the bigger the population size increases, the higher percentage chance of someone who’s psychotic and the more psychotic that person is, on average, the bigger the audience grows. And. Yeah, scary.

0:19:06.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So that’s that. And that’s it, bro. I don’t think I have anything good for you.

0:19:14.7 Mike Vacanti: All right. That’s all right. I got a list. I just feel selfish because, it’s always just my list.

0:19:20.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I love your list, though.

0:19:22.0 Mike Vacanti: I want you to have a list though. I want us both to have lists.

0:19:24.7 Jordan Syatt: No, you don’t want me to have a list.

0:19:26.0 Mike Vacanti: Yes, I do.

0:19:26.8 Jordan Syatt: This isn’t the Equity podcast, Michael. You’ve got the list. You’ve got the good list. We’ll go with your list.

0:19:33.0 Mike Vacanti: I want you… If you want Jordan to come with a few ideas, leave a five star review. And will you?

0:19:41.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s bad. That’s terrible.

0:19:42.7 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s not. Because I know they want want your list too. They want both of our lists.

0:19:45.1 Jordan Syatt: How about this, how about they dm you?

0:19:47.0 Mike Vacanti: They’re both hearing Michael.

0:19:47.2 Jordan Syatt: DM Michael and Michael will go on his DMs.

0:19:51.4 Mike Vacanti: Honestly, my next thing on my list is about social media and I’m not gonna go on my DMs, so don’t DM me. Leave a five star review. Spotify or Apple, and we’re gonna take that bump in ratings as a sign that Jordan needs to bring a list.

0:20:05.5 Jordan Syatt: Or they could just be people giving a five star review ’cause they love the podcast and it’s irrelevant to wanting my list.

0:20:10.4 Mike Vacanti: I’m gonna average it out over time. If there’s a disproportionate increase in five star reviews over the next month, then we’re gonna know that the people listened. And they were like yeah, we’re a little sick of hearing Mike talk about Mike stuff. Keep doing it, Mike. But give us 30 to 40% Jordan stuff.

0:20:24.9 Jordan Syatt: Keep doing it.

0:20:26.7 Mike Vacanti: We need a little more Jordan stuff in here. All right.

0:20:29.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay. All right.

0:20:30.5 Mike Vacanti: The five star reviews are gonna explode. So anyways, I guess I’ll go to my boring list. We had the solicitor social media. So this starts with, my nutrition has been up and down and I would say on average over the last year, definitely the last six months. And progressively worse, but definitely over the last year. The worst year I’ve had of nutrition since I was…

0:21:05.4 Jordan Syatt: Freshman in college? 

0:21:06.8 Mike Vacanti: No. Oh, yeah. First semester college. But that was so much just beer and… No, I want to say it’s been worse than that. Yeah, maybe freshman in college. I was gonna say since I was 13, eighth grade. I just, I haven’t been tracking and we know you find this funny. Jordan takes pleasure in this. What a guy.

0:21:32.2 Jordan Syatt: I love this.

0:21:32.8 Mike Vacanti: What a guy.

0:21:33.3 Jordan Syatt: I love this.

0:21:37.6 Mike Vacanti: Basically, the last three days, I just decided I’m done with this. I’m not going to… I don’t feel good physically. I don’t feel good mentally. I’m not as sharp. And I feel… I’m gonna use this word loosely and not scientifically, but I feel addicted to processed foods and the pleasure that I get from them. And so I just literally three days ago, I was like okay, I’ve had enough of me. I looked myself in the mirror and I said, I’m done with you, buddy. No, but I really was like, I feel like crap. I don’t want to feel like crap. And I didn’t even say to myself today I’m going to eat healthy. I was just like, all right, I’m just gonna… My next meal was my focus, and I waited several hours until I was actually hungry. I was really trying to pay attention. Do I just want to feel good or do I feel hungry? And then I had one of my Catered Fit meals, which have been huge in this first month of baby life. And then I waited a few more hours. I didn’t have any snacks, didn’t have anything.

0:22:43.8 Mike Vacanti: Had another Catered Fit meal three, four hours later. Basically, I had two really good days. And then I decided I’m setting macros for myself in my app to put me in a deficit that were higher than I had eaten for those two days, but probably a reasonable at least a pound a week deficit. I set those and I followed them yesterday, and I’ve been following them so far today. But while during my workout just now, it got me thinking about the most common impulsive pleasures in our current day and age. And technological impulsive pleasure was number one. So, scrolling or potentially video games could get lumped in there. Two, sexual impulsive pleasure, three, food impulsive pleasure, and four, drugs and alcohol impulsive pleasure seem to be the… I could be missing something, but seem to be the four biggest in our society. And I have struggled for a long time with technological impulsive pleasure, with social media consumption. 

0:23:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Shopping.

0:23:54.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, good one. Thank you. That’s off my radar, but…

0:23:58.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s not on my radar. I just… I’m not a shopping addict.

0:24:02.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, neither of us are. But you’re right. You’re 100% right that that’s right in the mix. I’ve struggled for a long time with not video games, but social media. And somehow I added a vice which is just eating crap food to feel good for pleasure on and off over the last year. And I’m done with that, brother. I’m done with that. So that’s all there is to say.

0:24:28.9 Jordan Syatt: Do you throw it out? Do you throw any food out?

0:24:30.5 Mike Vacanti: No, because no, it’s not mine. I don’t want to get into it. But someone I live with has a better relationship with food than I do. And what I’ve realized…

0:24:45.5 Jordan Syatt: And it’s not my baby.

0:24:48.5 Mike Vacanti: What I’ve realized is that the biggest thing that helped me over the years is creating a barrier, which is time and distance between myself and highly palatable, highly processed foods. And when they are in my vicinity, I’m way more likely to eat them, period. End of story. I have found something that’s really helped and I’m giving you so many head nods on this. I hope you’re enjoying it. Having an alternative, highly convenient, healthy option is massive in… I’m gonna avoid diving into the bag of sun chips because I have prepared food ready for me in the fridge. The difference between spending 20 or 30 minutes making myself something between two minutes in the microwave and I have this healthy 600 calorie meal right here ready to go, has really helped a lot as well as just a level of disgust. Not with my body, not with how I look. You find it funny, but it’s true. Disgust with the… With my character in making decisions purely to feel pleasure. Doing that for a year, I hate. I don’t even want to identify with that part of me because I hate that I find it truly, Jordan, I find it ungodly and awful in myself. And so I’m…

0:26:19.0 Jordan Syatt: You’re done.

0:26:20.0 Mike Vacanti: Well I’m gonna do my very best to continue what I’m doing right now, but it’s no good for anybody. It’s momentary mouth feel neurotransmitter pleasure in exchange for longer term downside. And I’m sick of it.

0:26:41.1 Jordan Syatt: That was one of the benefits of living in New York where, if you wanted to go get ice cream, you had to take 3,000 steps minimum just to go buy it. And you didn’t have to have it in your apartment. But you’re like, you know what? I’m gonna go to Citarella. And it was a 3,000 to 5,000 step journey just to go get the ice cream and… Yeah, yeah. Whereas now if it’s just in your house.

0:27:04.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, food environment is massive.

0:27:07.1 Jordan Syatt: What’s your favorite pre prepped meal so far.

0:27:10.2 Mike Vacanti: There are several that are very good. There was a…

0:27:14.6 Jordan Syatt: Is it a buffalo chicken meatball things.

0:27:18.5 Mike Vacanti: That one’s coming next week. I haven’t had it yet.

0:27:20.7 Jordan Syatt: So good.

0:27:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Is it? Wow.

0:27:22.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. With the yams. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So good.

0:27:24.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, they’re plantains and sweet potatoes and variants of sweet potatoes are delicious. It was a pork with onions and peppers, and… It was a pork shredded pork loin or something. There was some kind of beef.

0:27:41.8 Jordan Syatt: You’re just rubbing it on my face ’cause you knew that I wasn’t gonna eat the pork.

0:27:44.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:27:44.5 Jordan Syatt: The best one I’ve had is their pork. Actually.

0:27:49.7 Mike Vacanti: I wasn’t. I wasn’t. I had a really good beef one yesterday. Most of them are really solid. I would say 8 out of 10.

0:27:59.0 Jordan Syatt: Their breakfasts aren’t good, but their lunches and dinners are awesome.

0:28:01.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I don’t order the breakfast anymore.

0:28:03.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:28:05.0 Mike Vacanti: So that was on my list.

0:28:07.1 Jordan Syatt: The buffalo chicken meatball is both of our favorites. Mine and my wife’s. It’s our favorite. We’ll get…

0:28:14.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, wow. Is it ground chicken.

0:28:18.1 Jordan Syatt: I honestly don’t know. It’s in the shape of a meatball.

0:28:20.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s a chicken meatball.

0:28:21.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:28:22.0 Mike Vacanti: For some reason, deli chicken and chicken meatballs both always freaked me out.

0:28:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Sliced deli chicken.

0:28:28.7 Mike Vacanti: Sliced as in. Yeah you would get a pound of deli meat turkey.

0:28:34.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:28:34.5 Mike Vacanti: They do the same thing with chicken.

0:28:36.1 Jordan Syatt: No. Yeah. It’s not that. It’s not that.

0:28:39.1 Mike Vacanti: All right. I have it coming literally tomorrow, so I’ll try that.

0:28:42.9 Jordan Syatt: Super good.

0:28:43.7 Mike Vacanti: Good. I’m excited.

0:28:45.3 Jordan Syatt: I grilled up… I’ve been really grilling a lot so far this summer, and so I’ve been grilling… I’ve been getting much better with it. So we just grilled up 12 salmon filets.

0:28:57.4 Mike Vacanti: Nice.

0:28:58.1 Jordan Syatt: The other day and just have that ready to go. It’s…

0:29:01.8 Mike Vacanti: Nice. 

0:29:02.6 Jordan Syatt: I like the grill. I like the, just the char that you get on it, and I like the smoky flavor that you get from it. So sort of ingredient prepping those things, whether it’s salmon or steaks or chicken breasts or kebabs, has been super good for the last couple months.

0:29:20.3 Mike Vacanti: Sounds outstand.

0:29:21.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:29:22.2 Mike Vacanti: Grill master, let’s go.

0:29:23.8 Jordan Syatt: It’s also fun ’cause my toddler will come out and we’ll put music on in the patio, and she’ll just dance while I grill. It’s just awesome.

0:29:33.3 Mike Vacanti: That’s amazing.

0:29:34.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:29:34.7 Mike Vacanti: You didn’t have a lot to say, but you’re just sick of me talking about impulsive pleasures here on this podcast.

0:29:39.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, sorry, dude.

0:29:40.7 Mike Vacanti: No, it’s okay. No, it’s okay if you are.

0:29:42.4 Jordan Syatt: I’m not sick of it. I love talking about it. I just don’t want to… I don’t know where the line is between me giving advice versus just general thoughts. I don’t know.

0:29:57.4 Mike Vacanti: You don’t have to have anything to say about it. Just…

0:29:59.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude, you’re gonna crush it.

0:30:01.6 Mike Vacanti: No. I know I’m gonna crush it. I’m talking about the… I’m talking about these ideas in abstract. Not my application of the ideas.

0:30:08.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh. Just overall the idea of giving into these impulsive pleasures.

0:30:12.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:30:13.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Anyone who… Listen, I actually put up a story the other day. Someone asked me. They’re like what? ‘Cause I put up those question box like, what do you… Can you ask me anything? And someone asked me a question, and I thought it was an interesting question. And they said, what’s a question that you think people should ask themselves more often? And I said, what behavior am I continuously repeating because it feels good or familiar, even if the end result is causing me more pain and damage?

0:30:47.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s a banger, Jord.

0:30:48.8 Jordan Syatt: And a lot of people were like oh, man, you really fucking slapped me in the face with that one. And I felt a lot of people could relate to it, myself included. But that end result being pain or damage is, that disgust. I think that you can feel disgusted with yourself when you’re doing something over and over and over again that you know you shouldn’t be doing, but you just continuously do it over and over and over again. I feel like everyone can relate to that.

0:31:12.9 Mike Vacanti: I know that everyone can relate to that.

0:31:14.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:31:15.4 Mike Vacanti: And i think that there’s… A lot of people who are smart socially would not use the word disgust because maybe it’s too intense, but that is the emotion that I feel. It’s the same thing, dude. We have had conversations about how working out consistently becomes more important as a parent. Even though you are more stressed, you have less time. Things are more stacked against you than they were previously in terms of getting great workouts in, but it’s actually more important that you maintain some kind of regimen when you’re a parent. The feeling that I have about the part of myself that wants to just mail it in and not work out and not do anything is disgust. Is like… Yeah, I don’t know any other way to say it. It’s like hatred of sin.

0:32:19.1 Jordan Syatt: My brain goes to this place of… And this isn’t just in this context. I think about this a lot nowadays in which there are so many issues that people bring up in societal issues. Right. And my brain always goes like man, this is such a… It’s such a privileged issue from the perspective of like, in any, in so many other parts of the world where people are starving, there’s war, there’s… Even not other parts of the world but even here, 100 years ago and beyond, these weren’t problems because we had real problems, life or death style problems. And now people are worried about offending someone. And offending someone is now akin to being… If you have the audacity to say something that might offend someone or might be a different opinion, well now you’re a racist, bigot, misogynist, fascist, neo-Nazi, whatever it is. And my brain goes to man, these problems literally… And they weren’t a problem because there were so many other things that came first. And so my brain in this specific situation is like, yeah, you’re having this issue.

0:33:45.1 Jordan Syatt: But I wonder if these impulse… Giving into impulsive desires, if people even think about them as much in other… When there are so many other things that come before it. You know what i mean? When there’s so many other… I don’t even know if I’m making sense.

0:34:02.0 Mike Vacanti: People didn’t even… People couldn’t indulge a hundred years ago in these because they didn’t have access to them.

0:34:07.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct. It wasn’t even a thing.

0:34:09.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:34:10.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, and they didn’t have access to it when they were gonna eat. They had to go out and hunt on their own or they were relying on someone else and it, yeah. The food science wasn’t there. I don’t know. That’s just where my brain goes.

0:34:22.2 Mike Vacanti: The abundance wasn’t there. For all of human history, starvation was a bigger problem than obesity. 

0:34:28.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, correct.

0:34:29.1 Mike Vacanti: And now in the west and potentially other parts of the world as well, that is no longer the case. 

0:34:34.6 Jordan Syatt: The driving issue.

0:34:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Our biology hasn’t changed as fast as our environment has changed, which has presented us with these problems. But someone who is more eloquent might take a more empathetic approach. And you need to be kind to that part of yourself that wants to give in to these impulsive pleasures. I want to kill that part of myself. I’m serious, dude. We have too much empathy for bad behavior. And again, I’m not casting judgment outwardly. I’m casting it to the worst parts of me. We have way too much lenience and empathy towards bad behavior. 

0:35:18.7 Jordan Syatt: Tolerance.

0:35:18.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. 

0:35:19.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Too much tolerance.

0:35:20.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Oh, they’re almost just went somewhere. They’re just minor, attracted people, Jordan. All right, all right. That’s how they were born. Okay. They can’t help it.

0:35:40.1 Jordan Syatt: No, no. Dude, yeah, that’s not a controversial thing to say.

0:35:42.3 Mike Vacanti: It’s on its way to being there. We’ll see.

0:35:44.9 Jordan Syatt: The question becomes, what’s the best… And when I say the best, the most effective way to deal with these issues. Right? So if we’re talking about food and not pedophiles, but if we’re talking about dealing with your… The issues with food, is it more effective to come from a place of empathy or is it more effective to come from a place of, I’m going to murder this part of me? That’s where I feel like, now where do we go?

0:36:15.3 Mike Vacanti: Depends on the person.

0:36:16.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:36:18.5 Mike Vacanti: And look, that’s… There’s a reason I’m only expressing these emotions at myself and not at others, because the coach part of me obviously has empathy and understanding for these struggles because one, I’ve experienced them myself. Two, we have seen thousands of people go through this over decades. Yeah. There’s a balance between empathy and… But having empathy for yourself is a slippery slope because it can turn into justifying all of your bad behavior.

0:36:56.5 Jordan Syatt: You’re completely right. Listen, there’s a line between empathy and justification, right? And sort of there’s a line between being consistent or being… I don’t even know the exact terms I’m looking for here. There’s a line between consistency and perfection. Right? There’s that line. You don’t need to be perfect. You want to be consistent. But there’s also this line where it’s like, people think they’re being consistent or they think that they’re being a flexible dieter. Like, oh, yeah, I’m just being a flexible dieter. It’s like no, you aren’t dieting at all.

0:37:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:37:38.5 Jordan Syatt: You’re just eating whatever you want. There’s a line between flexible dieting and just mailing it in. And a lot of people are justifying mail it in by saying, well, nothing is off limits. Yeah. Just because nothing is off limits doesn’t mean that you have to fucking eat it all the time. Right. You can. Just because you’re allowed to eat it doesn’t mean you need to eat it. Right. And just because you want to eat it, doesn’t mean you should be eating it.

0:38:05.1 Mike Vacanti: Right.

0:38:05.9 Jordan Syatt: Right. There’s these lines and too much empathy, empathy taken to the extreme can allow for over justification of just shitty habits, period.

0:38:17.8 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. Which could end up being your whole life.

0:38:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that’s exactly right.

0:38:23.5 Mike Vacanti: If you don’t make a pivot, at some point.

0:38:26.1 Jordan Syatt: You gotta call yourself on your bullshit.

0:38:27.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s a good way… That’s a good relatable way to say it.

0:38:31.4 Jordan Syatt: And you gotta be tough, sometimes you gotta show some tough love. And we talk about that in the mentorship like, all right, how do you do as a coach? How do you have tough love? How do you balance tough love with empathy? And they can coexist.

0:38:43.5 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. 

0:38:44.1 Jordan Syatt: It’s not one or the other. Yeah.

0:38:45.9 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely. 

0:38:46.6 Jordan Syatt: And you’ve just mailed it in for the last year. So now you’re having some tough love on yourself. Hey, stop being a little bitch.

0:38:52.3 Mike Vacanti: What are you doing?

0:38:52.8 Jordan Syatt: Stop. This is gross, dude. Stop.

0:38:54.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yep.

0:38:55.8 Jordan Syatt: Stop.

0:38:56.2 Mike Vacanti: Yep. And by the way, on the subject of flexible dieting, I’m so happy you brought that up. There’s a reason that I only did two days without desserts and then gave myself macro targets starting yesterday. And that is because actual flexible dieting is the best diet approach. Not eating, eliminating XYZ food groups indefinitely is not sustainable. And so that’s why last night I had a 90 calorie sherbert cup before bed that fit my intake for the day. Because that is what in the research and practical experience in everything has created the best physical and psychological long term outcomes for the greatest number of people.

0:39:38.3 Jordan Syatt: I do think there’s something to be said for short term removal of whatever “trigger foods” you might have though. In the same way, sometimes there’s something to be said for removing caffeine, sometimes there’s something to be said for removing highly palatable foods or super sugary foods. Remove them especially…

0:39:58.4 Mike Vacanti: Or just certain highly palatable foods that are trigger foods for you.

0:40:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, yeah, remove them for a little bit. Not forever, but often times if you take it out for, it could be two days like you did, or could be a week or a month. When you come back to it sometimes, not all the times, but sometimes it’ll be like oh, this happens with caffeine for sure. But if you do it with sweet food, sometimes you come back like oh, my gosh, that was way sweeter. You’d almost diluted it. You became desensitized to it.

0:40:25.6 Mike Vacanti: Like a drug.

0:40:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So then you come back to it, you’re like oh, you know what? I don’t need as much as I was having before. That’s plenty.

0:40:31.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. 100%. You’ve reset your baseline of pleasure.

0:40:36.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:40:37.4 Mike Vacanti: Right. You hedonically adapted to needing all these Oreos every single day to feel normal. Classic withdrawal symptoms from cocaine. You’re below baseline, and then you get back up to baseline, and then you go to the club again and start doing blow with your buddies, and you don’t need as much to get high.

0:40:59.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:41:01.3 Mike Vacanti: And I’m speaking from research on that. I’m speaking Dr. Anna Lembke. That, fortunately, was never my vice. So that’s a scary one. 

0:41:08.9 Jordan Syatt: Blow? 

0:41:09.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, blow is a scary one.

0:41:10.3 Jordan Syatt: Especially nowadays.

0:41:11.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But even, what? Because of fentanyl?

0:41:15.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, ’cause of the fentanyl. Yeah.

0:41:16.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Yes, obviously that sudden death from drug intake is a risk and not good. Yeah. But even without it, it’s very bad.

0:41:28.0 Jordan Syatt: Even without it, it’s really bad. But it’s just now it’s crazy. The fentanyl crisis is really fucking scary.

0:41:34.6 Mike Vacanti: I just don’t want someone to be like nah, my drug dealer gives me the pure coke, so I’m good. I don’t need to stop.

0:41:39.4 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s all bad. It’s all bad.

0:41:41.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:41:42.8 Jordan Syatt: Objectively, the pure stuff would be better than stuff laced with fentanyl. Objectively. Right?

0:41:50.8 Mike Vacanti: True. 

0:41:51.7 Jordan Syatt: But, yeah, it’s all bad.

0:41:55.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:41:57.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m just thinking of… There’s an amazing Michael Scott quote about being like man, back in the… It’s like back in the ’90s, man, did we push… Or the ’80s, man, did we push paper?

0:42:09.4 Mike Vacanti: What is push paper?

0:42:11.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s a paper company. They were sold paper. So they were doing coke and just selling a lot of paper ’cause they were doing a lot of coke.

0:42:19.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, interesting.

0:42:21.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Not good. It’s bad. It’s terrible for you. But it… Nowadays it’s just… It’s so much scarier. Do you know anyone or do you know anyone who knows anyone who’s died from fentanyl.

0:42:38.8 Mike Vacanti: Not for certain, but potentially, yeah. Kid I graduated high school.

0:42:44.0 Jordan Syatt: Kid, I don’t know anyone who doesn’t know at least one person, one of my college friends directly he did. And then there’s at least one woman in the inner circle, her son.

0:42:55.3 Mike Vacanti: Oh, man.

0:42:56.9 Jordan Syatt: It’s crazy. And it’s… Don’t quote me on this, but it’s about 300 people a day.

0:43:04.8 Mike Vacanti: No way.

0:43:05.7 Jordan Syatt: That might be wrong.

0:43:06.6 Mike Vacanti: In the US or worldwide? 

0:43:08.4 Jordan Syatt: In the US.

0:43:09.9 Mike Vacanti: 200, in 2022, 200 people died each day in the United States.

0:43:15.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, isn’t that insane?

0:43:16.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. 2023, 192 deaths per day, man.

0:43:20.3 Jordan Syatt: That’s a full airplane full of people every day.

0:43:23.4 Mike Vacanti: It’s very sad.

0:43:24.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s a fucking problem.

0:43:26.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Not good at all. My analogy took us off course here, but 100%, if you can eliminate trigger foods for a period of time, you’re gonna reset your baseline and it’s gonna be easier to be adherent. For most people, it’s very likely gonna be easier to adhere when you add them back in.

0:43:46.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:43:47.8 Mike Vacanti: On the same subject, clearly this is where my mind has been the last few days. I just wrote, healthy food tastes better in a deficit/when you’re actually hungry.

0:43:54.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s true.

0:43:55.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, dude. Did you ever in your heyday of being lean, college, wrestling, any of those eras, were you ever into pickles?

0:44:08.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Massive.

0:44:10.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:44:10.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. ‘Cause they’re like 5 calories for a huge pickle and…

0:44:16.2 Mike Vacanti: The sodium ’cause you’re probably… When you’re eating healthy. Yeah. You’re just not eating as much salt as you probably should when you’re in an extreme deficit and eating mostly healthy food choices.

0:44:25.3 Jordan Syatt: And it quenches hunger. It’s that sour ish, vinegary taste that, like, okay, if I wanted something sweet. Well, I definitely don’t want something sweet now. It’s just like, it was one of those old school things that now people will be like, well, that’s a disordered eating habit where it’s like, people are like, oh, you’re hungry. Eat a pickle. It’s like, I’ll have a whole jar of pickles. And then I feel pretty full. And yeah, dude, I used to be super into pickles. That’s actually how one of the ways I’ll be like if I see someone on social media who’s really lean and then they show that they’re eating pickles a lot, I’m like oh, yeah. They’re hungry.

0:44:59.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Well, did you ever have… So I never ate pickles for volume, for fullness, but when I was really lean, I loved the bread and butter pickles that have… 

0:45:10.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. So good.

0:45:11.3 Mike Vacanti: They have six or seven grams of sugar per serving and probably 30 cals a serving. I would put two or three of those servings on my sandwiches. And that just, the little bit of sugar plus sodium combination just hits the spot.

0:45:26.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, super good.

0:45:28.2 Mike Vacanti: One of the great joys in life when you feel like you’re about to have a terrible workout and it ends up being absolutely world class. I don’t know if it’s one of the great joys in life. I was really feeling that workout apparently. But it’s such a testament to do what you’re supposed to do even when you don’t feel like doing it, because long run you’re gonna see better outcomes. Same with making content. Oh, you are trying to get your business off the ground. You don’t feel like making content. Too bad. You’re making content.

0:45:53.8 Jordan Syatt: Have you been working out even when your sleep’s been shit?

0:45:56.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:45:56.5 Jordan Syatt: There we go. You’ve just been fucking doing it.

0:45:59.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but what else am I gonna do? Not work out?

0:46:01.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s exactly right.

0:46:03.0 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know if I want to go down this rabbit hole. I want you to be as open minded and objective as possible about what I’m about to say.

0:46:15.1 Jordan Syatt: I feel like I’m a pretty open minded dude.

0:46:16.8 Mike Vacanti: I feel like you are too. I feel like you are too. But I really want you to really be open minded on this one.

0:46:28.4 Jordan Syatt: I want you to really open your mind on this one. Okay, let’s hear it.

0:46:35.4 Mike Vacanti: And I consumed almost no content on this. But I just literally… Remember we were talking about daydreaming and then I told you some examples of daydreaming and you’re like, that’s just thinking. And I was like oh, yeah, you’re right.

0:46:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Was that on the podcast?

0:46:51.0 Mike Vacanti: No, no, that was just on a call. And I did this recently, so it wasn’t daydreaming, it was just thinking. And I don’t necessarily want an answer because I know what you could say here. That’s like well, this is why this happened. But I want you to go a layer deeper than your initial instinct here.

0:47:08.7 Jordan Syatt: Man, I feel like you’re really building this up for me to have quite the reaction and it’s not gonna go the way you or anyone wants. All right, let’s see.

0:47:17.7 Mike Vacanti: I’m trying to think of an analogy to open.

0:47:21.5 Jordan Syatt: You want to grok it?

0:47:22.6 Mike Vacanti: No. I’m confused as to how the entire evidence based fitness community got stuck in this position where they’re glorifying seed oils as this amazingly healthy source of fat. I’m very confused because based on all of the research, all of the evidence, all of the nutrition courses I ever took, everything I ever knew, there’s a hierarchy of healthy fats with monounsaturated fats being the king Mufas and with omega 3 polyunsaturated fats being the queen, with a higher omega 3 to omega 6 polyunsaturated fat ratio being better than a lower ratio between those two polyunsaturated fats, with saturated fats being less healthy than all of the above, although fine in certain quantities, and with trans fats kind of being at the end of let’s try and avoid those.

0:48:45.1 Jordan Syatt: Don’t eat those.

0:48:46.5 Mike Vacanti: Somehow, I just… And maybe it’s because of what’s going on in politics and yada yada, and I can… But somehow when I see anything about seed oils, it’s very smart people talking about how great seed oils are and citing one or two or three studies about the benefits of seed oils. Almost, because they need to stand in opposition of the carnivore bros who are like, saturated fat and meat only is incredible for your health. And seed oils are the devil and they’re awful. And then these smart, science people had to jump and be like, no, seed oils aren’t awful. They have this benefit, this benefit, this benefit, this benefit. But in all of that discussion, we seem to have lost our way that monounsaturated fats and omega 3 polyunsaturated fats are both way healthier than seed oils. And even if I look at, like I was at your house recently, big avocado guy, big olive oil guy, these are great sources of monounsaturated fats. Big salmon guy that’s your favorite protein source. So clearly you’re a big Omega 3 polyunsaturated fat guy. You’re a big monounsaturated fat guy.

0:50:06.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m just confused as to how all these geniuses, who I really love and respect, kingpins of the industry, are staking their life on omega 6 fatty acids that are not bad. But I don’t know, I feel like that energy should be going into promoting the real healthy fats instead of saying these so, so fats are actually really not bad at all. And yes, we don’t want to damage people’s relationship with… I understand how many routes we can take to defend this behavior. I just think we need to go back to first principles and put the real healthy fats at the top of the totem pole.

0:50:44.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude, number one, that’s an amazing clip right there. That’s gonna be sick. Number two, I completely agree with you. I’m also, keep in mind, forefront of my mind, of my thoughts are, all right, how can I keep an open, open, open mind to this? And how can I have a real reaction? So I’m trying to also get the reaction that you want. But also, I completely agree with you. Here’s what i think and I’m hoping I’m giving you what you want. I think what’s… There’s no question that the monounsaturated fats are king. We know that. There are two major things happening. Number one is, you have the very loud carnivore bros. Saturated fat is king. Seed oils are the devil. Are being super, super loud. So then you have these very smart people on our “side” who are trying to defend it. And what’s happening is, as they’re defending it and they started off just by saying, listen, they’re not bad for you. I wouldn’t recommend making them your sole source, but they’re not bad for you. That started off with that and then they started getting a really good engagement.

0:51:58.7 Jordan Syatt: They started… People started being… For example, I had Ben Carpenter on my podcast and he spoke a lot about seed oils. I put seed oils and MAHA in the title ’cause that’s what we spoke about. But when I say this podcast went absolutely viral. It was featured, front page Spotify. Now it’s the second most downloaded podcast. John Delony is the first. But virality beyond belief on these two topics, seed oils, MAHA type stuff.

0:52:25.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay.

0:52:28.5 Jordan Syatt: So i think that they started off basically doing what you said, but then with the virality of the topic and getting insane engagement, then they’re like, well, let me go deeper on it now. And that’s what it has sort of morphed into. Not necessarily because in their logical recommendations, in their logical brain, based on, they’re not saying we need more seed oils. It’s because they were like oh, this is getting a lot of traction. Let’s talk about it a lot more. And then that’s what it has morphed into. And then they’re like, and all the research shows that there’s actually health benefits to it. And da, da, da, da, da. It’s like, yeah I get it. I know what you’re saying. But also what you should be doing is using that to lead into. But by the way, if we want to talk about the best options, we should be having more salmon, we should be having more avocado, we should be having more olives and olive oil. That should be the discussion. But it’s not going there because for any number of reasons, but engagement is the main reason we’re seeing what we’re seeing.

0:53:28.9 Mike Vacanti: Jordan, in 227 episodes, you just gave the best answer you’ve ever given. Because audience capture among people talking about seed oils was not even remotely on my radar as far as a potential reason as to why what is happening is happening. So thank you.

0:53:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Good.

0:53:50.3 Mike Vacanti: It wasn’t even on my radar. Makes total sense. You see audience capture work in so many ways where people talk about a certain thing. It gets great engagement. So you talk about that thing more, it gets even better engagement make sense for business. Now I understand it better.

0:54:05.6 Jordan Syatt: That’s what I would imagine, especially in today’s social media economy where people are fighting to figure out what posts are gonna do well, what topics are gonna do well. It’s like, that’s what I would imagine.

0:54:15.6 Mike Vacanti: Thank you. Great answer. I’m gonna start hammering the real kingpins of healthy fats here on this podcast and in my own diet.

0:54:28.0 Jordan Syatt: What’s your favorite source of these kingpins?

0:54:33.3 Mike Vacanti: Salmon for omega 3. I’m right there with you. For the monounsaturated fats. Almonds. I love almonds, which have quite a bit of monounsaturated fat. I also like olive oil. I’m not dipping bread in olive oil on the daily, but maybe I’ll get there at some point. Yeah, those are at the top of my list. Those are the ones that I’m consuming. I’ve been having almonds for breakfast basically every day for probably five years at this point with protein shake. And almonds are kind of the staples.

0:55:12.5 Jordan Syatt: How many almonds?

0:55:13.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, one serving? 28.

0:55:14.8 Jordan Syatt: 28?

0:55:15.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. 15 grams of fat. They’re not just these… They’re not raw almonds. They’re different flavors. And yes, you get a couple grams of carbs in there and a few grams of protein, but gotta enjoy them.

0:55:29.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. You gotta live a little, right? Yeah.

0:55:31.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. 

0:55:32.9 Jordan Syatt: You like the wasabi ones?

0:55:33.6 Mike Vacanti: I love the wasabi ones?

0:55:35.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I like the…

0:55:36.2 Mike Vacanti: Like the smokehouse ones.

0:55:37.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, smokehouse ones are really good.

0:55:39.8 Mike Vacanti: I like the honey roasted ones too much that I don’t eat those, because that’s a… Honestly, I just realized that’s a trigger food. That’s…

0:55:47.6 Jordan Syatt: You just don’t stop.

0:55:48.1 Mike Vacanti: I’m not eating 28 of those. I’ll eat those instead of a dessert.

0:55:50.9 Jordan Syatt: Where’s your total fat at in your macros?

0:55:53.8 Mike Vacanti: You want to hear… People are gonna be pissed at these macros after… If you’ve listened to this whole episode…

0:55:59.1 Jordan Syatt: I noticed you didn’t say how many… Earlier in the show, you’re like, more than I was before, but still at least a pound a week. And you didn’t say where your macros are at. You don’t need to tell you all your macros if you don’t want, but I am interested where your fat is.

0:56:11.8 Mike Vacanti: I’ll tell you every macro I’ve ever eaten in my whole… Dude, there’s no holding back here. 150 protein. My training day. And by the way, I have always found this is unnecessary for fat loss outcomes and muscle retention outcomes, et cetera. I have found psychological benefits to carb cycling, having a higher carb and a lower carb, higher carb and moderate carb day, however you want to spin it, and a higher and lower fat day because it changes… It gives you more variety in your foods. And so while this is not necessary, it’s what I have always found to work best. My training day is 150 protein, 400 carb, 70 fat for 2830 cals. Assuming I’m getting, 10k steps in. And we talked about doing some movement on rest days and then my rest days. 150 protein, 250 carb, 90 fat for 2410 cals.

0:57:14.5 Jordan Syatt: Mm, that’s awesome. That’s a good amount of fat too. That gives you a lot of leeway, right? ‘Cause I know some protocols go super low fat. It just makes it really difficult. But that’s a substantial amount of fat.

0:57:27.0 Mike Vacanti: It limits your food choices so much. When I have done that in the past, I’ve just gone over my fats and been okay with it. But that doesn’t work for everyone. Some people, you give them very limited dietary fat, they miss that target, and then it can snowball from there.

0:57:44.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Yeah. I’m getting some fats in.

0:57:46.1 Mike Vacanti: You getting some fats in these days? I know you love olives. I know you love olive oil.

0:57:52.3 Jordan Syatt: Lot of olives. A lot of olive oil. A lot of salmon, a lot of avocado. Yeah. I have a significant amount of fat in my diet. I also feel it’s great for my skin.

0:58:02.3 Mike Vacanti: Skin is looking good.

0:58:03.5 Jordan Syatt: Thanks, bro. Yeah, I feel like it’s good for my skin. I feel like it’s good for overall energy. I feel like personally, I do better with a 33. 33, 33 type macros proteins, carbs, fat. So.

0:58:20.3 Mike Vacanti: Yep.

0:58:21.6 Jordan Syatt: Rather than it being super high carb or low fat or super high fat and low carb, it’s like, everything is relatively even for me. It’s where I tend to feel the best.

0:58:32.2 Mike Vacanti: Nice.

0:58:33.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s also so much easier.

0:58:34.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.

0:58:35.3 Jordan Syatt: When I worked with Martin Berkhan, did I ever tell my protein was at…

0:58:38.7 Mike Vacanti: In the twos, right?

0:58:39.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it was in the twos.

0:58:40.8 Mike Vacanti: And you weighed a buck 30.

0:58:43.3 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I got to 119.

0:58:44.8 Mike Vacanti: Wow.

0:58:45.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but my fats were so low. My fat was… It was between 35 and 42 or something.

0:58:55.8 Mike Vacanti: Bro, when I was the leanest I’ve ever been, I weighed 160. Maybe when say… I probably got less, I was less than 160 at the end of the cut. But my training day fat was at 45.

0:59:10.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, dude. Crazy, crazy, crazy. I felt horrible.

0:59:14.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. The benefit is, which I understand, depending on the type of strength training you’re doing, is the training performance benefits from the added carbs.

0:59:26.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, that makes sense.

0:59:27.4 Mike Vacanti: Not for everyone. Depends on how much volume you’re doing. Depends on many factors, but probably not enough to justify the limitations in food choices. Right. It’s like, oh, I can’t even have salmon. I need to have chicken breast again because my fats are at 35. This is ridiculous.

0:59:43.5 Jordan Syatt: But even just walking to the gym from the parking lot, you’re exhausted and yeah, you’ve got a set of five in you. Your strength might be maintained, but in general life, walking and the energy that you have is just… I felt so bad.

1:00:02.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, some of that, too, was the size of the deficit. I’m sure how lean you were.

1:00:07.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’m sure that was the majority of it, realistically.

1:00:10.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but look, we got into this by talking about the hierarchy of healthy fats. It’s important to get essential fatty acids in your diet. You need them to live.

1:00:21.7 Jordan Syatt: Do you use olive oil?

1:00:22.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

1:00:23.3 Jordan Syatt: Use a spray olive oil.

1:00:24.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s an insignificant source of olive oil, right? Because when I’m spraying it, even though there is some fat, it’s not zero like it says on the can with 500 servings in a quarter second spray whatever. The majority of my olive oil comes from, I use it when I roast vegetables. I’m trying to think ’cause I only really make one meal, Mike’s beef special. That’s if we’re having dinner and I’m cooking, we’re having beef special with asparagus.

1:00:57.6 Jordan Syatt: Is that what you call it, Mike’s Beef Special?

1:00:59.3 Mike Vacanti: I just call it beef special, but it’s implied that it’s mine.

1:01:05.9 Jordan Syatt: Is this from your family’s cow? 

1:01:07.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. 

1:01:09.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh, nice.

1:01:10.8 Mike Vacanti: But my wife uses olive oil in basically every salad dressing. Will either be, olive oil will be the base of the dressing or she just puts olive oil on the salad that we have, like the side salad or we’ll have a salad with a bunch of stuff in it, including some protein. And so those are the main.

1:01:29.0 Jordan Syatt: Do if your cow was grain finished or grass?

1:01:32.7 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. No, that wasn’t…

1:01:34.7 Jordan Syatt: Because I’ve been looking into a little bit more. I spoke with Dr. Alan Bacon about it a lot and then as I’ve been looking into it, it’s really interesting. I’ve actually found, just from an anecdotal perspective, most people who… The people who… You have the people who swear by grass finish, right. They’re like, they’re grass fed. I love it. But when you have the people who are like yeah, I’ve done both. And they’re open minded to both, they all say grain finish tastes better.

1:02:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.

1:02:01.9 Jordan Syatt: Which is… I found that… ‘Cause usually the people who are like super, grass fed is best. Grass fed is best. That’s what you need. That’s what you need. They’ll obviously say it tastes better. But when I’ve looked at the people who’ve done both and were like yeah, no, they’re both fine. But grain finish tastes better. I found grass finished or grass fed it… Apparently the people say it’s a little bit chewier.

1:02:23.7 Mike Vacanti: Interesting.

1:02:24.3 Jordan Syatt: It’s not as palatable.

1:02:28.3 Mike Vacanti: I’m guessing grain finish because otherwise it would have been marketed as grass finished.

1:02:33.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

1:02:34.8 Mike Vacanti: And it would have been a selling point. And the point of going in on the cow was, financial was a big piece of it. Right?

1:02:42.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

1:02:43.4 Mike Vacanti: If you’re buying a cow, the price per pound of meat for every cut of meat is significantly cheaper as well as just knowing the farm came from and humanely raised is like there’s an element of that. But yeah, I’m not sure.

1:02:58.7 Jordan Syatt: Dude, that was a great episode. Thank you everyone for listening. If you want to apply to join the mentorship, no nonsense. $500 off. If you are accepted, we would love to have you. And if you are denied, try again next year. And that’s it. Have a wonderful week. We’ll talk to you soon.

1:03:20.5 Mike Vacanti: See you next week.