Episode 228: Love on The Spectrum, Our Biggest Disagreement Ever, Dad Life, and More…

0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.3 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:13.2 Mike Vacanti: Stress levels are high.

0:00:14.7 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:00:15.4 Mike Vacanti: Stress levels are high, my brother.

0:00:17.2 Jordan Syatt: Why?

0:00:18.6 Mike Vacanti: Just a lot of different issues. Client issue. Got another kind of business issue. Got a baby. She’s some work to take care of and we’re potting though. We’re podding anyway.

0:00:34.4 Jordan Syatt: Bro, have you seen the show ‘Love on the Spectrum?’

0:00:35.5 Mike Vacanti: That’s what life is, brother. It’s podding and getting it done, even when you’re feeling a little stress. I’ve seen clips from that show, yes.

0:00:45.2 Jordan Syatt: What are your thoughts?

0:00:46.2 Mike Vacanti: Hang on. First, we got a sale and it’s ending soon, so…

0:00:50.7 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. Hey, hey, listen up. Hey, listen. Not only… If you haven’t applied yet, apply, but if you’ve applied and you’ve been accepted, you’re not locked in at this rate, in perpetuity. Okay. If you’ve applied and you want to get in, you have to join now during this sale, or else the price is gonna go up and you’re not gonna be able to get in at this price. And you’re welcome to join later if you’d like, but this happens every time. People apply and then they get in and then they don’t join, and then the sale is over. And then the next sale comes. They’re like, “Wait, I thought it was gonna be this.” It was like, “Well, that’s what it was the last fucking time. But you didn’t join then.” So if you want in now at the lowest price, it’s going to be ever. Which, by the way, is a fraction of what the other mastermind guru nonsense is. Join now. Yeah, that’s it.

0:01:55.5 Mike Vacanti: Well said. ‘Love on the Spectrum.’

0:01:58.4 Jordan Syatt: Bro, what are your thoughts?

0:02:00.4 Mike Vacanti: I’ve just seen a couple clips. I don’t know. There’s like, a really endearing, charismatic young lady with autism who is dating a guy, and they say cute and funny things. I don’t have comprehensive thoughts on this subject.

0:02:16.2 Jordan Syatt: Okay. As you know, I’m not a reality TV guy.

0:02:21.9 Mike Vacanti: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You are the person who forced me to watch ‘Love is Blind.’

0:02:27.8 Jordan Syatt: I did not force you to watch ‘Love is Blind.’

0:02:30.0 Mike Vacanti: You did.

0:02:30.8 Jordan Syatt: Number one, I didn’t force you to do anything. Number two, I hate that show.

0:02:32.7 Mike Vacanti: Against my consent, Jordan forced me to watch ‘Love is Blind’.

0:02:37.8 Jordan Syatt: No. And I don’t… You wanted to continue watching it when I quit.

0:02:43.3 Mike Vacanti: Absolutely false.

0:02:45.8 Jordan Syatt: I quit forever after Trevor fucking ruined everything, just destroyed it.

0:02:49.5 Mike Vacanti: Hang on. The season before that, you were very into and…

0:02:54.3 Jordan Syatt: I wasn’t very into it. I said the pods are interesting. Once after the pods then it’s over.

0:03:01.7 Mike Vacanti: My brother. I’ll never forget sitting in the gas station parking lot, filling up my rental car before taking it to the airport down in Florida. It was at nighttime. It was dark out, and you were like, “Dude, I can’t wait for you to watch this. It is… “

0:03:16.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I couldn’t wait for you to watch it. Yeah, I wanted your reaction. I wasn’t that into it. I haven’t watched it since.

0:03:25.4 Mike Vacanti: Jordan, who’s a moderate to very interested in reality tv guy.

0:03:29.3 Jordan Syatt: The only reality TV that I really enjoy is the UFC house, where they get all these fighters to compete for a contract. That’s my favorite reality TV.

0:03:40.6 Mike Vacanti: You like a wide variety… You’re…

0:03:42.8 Jordan Syatt: No, I’m a very niche topic.

0:03:46.2 Mike Vacanti: You cover reality tv, like a spectrum of reality tv from high testosterone UFC all the way to dating shows. You’re…

0:03:53.4 Jordan Syatt: Let’s zone in.

0:03:54.8 Mike Vacanti: I’m happy to zone in, but you are the reality TV guy.

0:03:58.9 Jordan Syatt: All right. Okay, Bro. This show. I didn’t want to watch it. I don’t want to watch basically any reality tv. Very rarely am I… But especially this one. I didn’t want to watch it. And then we had a family friend that was talking about how amazing it is, and we had another person talk about how amazing it was. So my wife was like, “Let’s watch it.” And I was like, “Okay.” Number one, I didn’t want to watch it mainly because of reality tv, but also, dude it feels super exploitative in terms of…

0:04:36.4 Mike Vacanti: Of the people disability.

0:04:39.5 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Some of them are severely… Have severe, severe level. I know it’s a spectrum. Some of them are very far on one end of the spectrum.

0:04:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Does everyone on the show have autism?

0:04:52.6 Jordan Syatt: I believe all of the… Thus far, all of the people who are actively dating and who they’re watching have autism. Their family doesn’t have it necessarily.

0:05:04.1 Mike Vacanti: No, sorry. All of the contestants. Can you explain the show for all of us people who aren’t that into reality TV?

0:05:10.0 Jordan Syatt: All right buddy. Basically, they get a bunch of people who have autism, and they set them up on dates with other people who have autism and/or other issues. Okay. And they range in terms of their severity. Now it felt super… It feels very exploitative because I guarantee you that some of them have… I can’t guarantee it. I would be shocked if some of them really understood the magnitude of what was going on of them like being shown worldwide or… Some of the clips are cute, but also some of them are funny because of how sad it is.

0:06:06.5 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t seen those.

0:06:07.6 Jordan Syatt: It’s really… Dude, it’s really sad and it shows… I will say the one major benefit that I’ve noticed is it’s so much more empathy for those who struggle with autism and those who are struggling with it and their family and everything and everything they have to go through is especially on the more severe end. It’s interesting to see the differences in severity. Some people who have a relatively low on the spectrum versus someone who’s very relatively high, and I’m probably using all the wrong terminology.

0:06:39.0 Mike Vacanti: And I would imagine they can’t even have the people who are extremely high on the spectrum on the show because… Is there anyone on the show who’s non verbal, for example?

0:06:47.8 Jordan Syatt: No, I haven’t seen. But there are people who were nonverbal until they were relatively like… There was one kid who didn’t talk until he was five or something. But dude, there are people who are very severely on the spectrum. Like, severely, severely. And I don’t know, you know the gut part of you that just knows if something is right or wrong.

0:07:14.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:07:15.0 Jordan Syatt: That part of me is like, this is wrong. That part of me is like, they shouldn’t be putting these people on tv, especially those with severe, severe, severe. If someone who has more mild. There are some people who have more mild who as I’m watching them, I’m like, if I was hanging out with them, I might think maybe they’re just a little bit odd, but I would be friends with that person type of a thing. Those people, if they willingly go into it, great no issues whatsoever. But some of these people, I’m like, “Oh, man, this is really sad. It’s really, really, really sad.” But then on the other hand, you see these people go on dates and they’re so happy and they get super, super happy when they’re on dates with someone else. And it’s funny because you watch and you’re like, “Oh, they’re not enjoying themselves at all. They’re having a terrible time.” And then in the interview when it’s over, they’re like, “Hey, how was it?” And they’re like, “I’m so happy. I want to… I found my person.” I was like, “Wow, watching you, I had no idea that you are enjoying that whatsoever.”

0:08:21.4 Jordan Syatt: There’s pros and cons it’s very… There are some things that are great, like watching them go through a breakup is not good. That’s not fun at all. But anyway, I was interested if you’d seen it. My wife and I have watched three or four episodes and it’s a unique show. But then I also wonder what… Because they made this show not for the benefit of people with autism. They made this show to make money. That’s why they made the show. So I’m thinking, who the fuck is in a business meeting and be like, “I’ve got a fucking idea. You know all the dating shows, let’s take people who are really struggling and put them.” I don’t know. I don’t like that.

0:09:05.8 Mike Vacanti: You get a weird gut feeling.

0:09:07.2 Jordan Syatt: I get weird feelings about it. Yeah.

0:09:08.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I can see it. I haven’t thought about this. I haven’t seen the show. Unfortunately, I don’t have a good opinion, but I can definitely see where you’re coming from.

0:09:18.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. There are some really amazing one liners. Some really incredible one liners in there. There’s this, my favorite character. His name is Subodh. It was a few years ago. He’s like 33 or 34 years old at the time. He’s Indian. His family’s Indian. Not Native American, like Indian. And he seems like the sweetest guy ever. And he has severe, severe autism. And I would imagine other things as well. And I love how his family loves him so much. He’ll say things that were like, it was his birthday and his mom was giving the nicest speech ever. Just the most kind speech like, “Subodh, we love you, da, da, da.” And he just interrupts her. He’s like, “How much longer until you’re done talking?”

0:10:17.7 Mike Vacanti: That’s awesome.

0:10:18.7 Jordan Syatt: And his mom is so sweet. She was like, “I’m almost done. I just want to finish.” She gets it now. Obviously she raised him. And then there was another one. Again he’s Indian. The whole family’s Indian. And his mom is talking to him about, is he excited for the date that he’s about to go on? And he goes, “Well wait, she’s not Indian, right?” And she’s like, “No, she’s not Indian.” He’s like, “Okay, good, good. She’s American, right?” He’s like, “Okay, good.” He just did not want to date an Indian whatsoever. It’s just so unbelievably straightforward.

0:10:51.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. The lack of a filter and pure… Even the social cue of letting my mom finish giving me this compliment. When are you done talking?

0:11:03.2 Jordan Syatt: He’s on a date with this woman and this woman is like, “So, what are your favorite animals?” And he’s like, “I don’t like this topic. Let’s switch topics.”

0:11:15.0 Mike Vacanti: You know what? I get it.

0:11:17.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And she was like, “Okay, cool.” And they both, at the end of the day, were so happy. They were like just so happy.

0:11:26.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s where it’s like, there are pros and cons to a situation even if there is some mal intent or some exploitation, like I can see the argument that… This is different, but it’s almost like representation in movies, in acting roles where, I don’t know, there was some drama around ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’, because a lot of dwarfs were mad that the new Snow White didn’t actually cast seven dwarfs, because that’s seven opportunities for us to make it big. Our careers could change on that movie. Whereas the producers or whoever made the decision, I’m really not in the know on this. I’m speaking very loosely, but we’re coming from the perspective of it’s disrespectful. It’s a bad look. It’s like not discriminatory.

0:12:24.8 Jordan Syatt: Why? They’re dwarfs.

0:12:25.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but I don’t know.

0:12:27.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s crazy.

0:12:28.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I can see…

0:12:30.0 Jordan Syatt: I can understand why they were mad.

0:12:31.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, me too.

0:12:34.5 Jordan Syatt: So they cast seven non dwarfs.

0:12:38.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I think so. I don’t know. Or they got rid of them entirely. Or they just made it like seven people and one of them was a dwarf. I really don’t know.

0:12:48.8 Jordan Syatt: I hate that.

0:12:49.0 Mike Vacanti: Changed the story some… Yeah. We don’t need to get into Disney remaking movies in a worse way, because that’s just a… There’s enough people making content about that we don’t need to.

0:13:00.8 Jordan Syatt: Is there? Oh, I don’t see that content.

0:13:02.4 Mike Vacanti: I haven’t either because I haven’t been on X in months, but it’s definitely out there.

0:13:06.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, bro, speaking of X, Elon v. Trump. You don’t want to talk about that. We’ll skip that.

0:13:12.8 Mike Vacanti: We can. I have literally nothing to say since my daughter was born. You don’t even understand how much I don’t care about political fighting…

0:13:20.9 Jordan Syatt: Bro. What do you mean you don’t even understand. I get it. I have two daughters as well. I get it.

0:13:27.0 Mike Vacanti: Dude, you could be a senator one day. You’re like…

0:13:29.2 Jordan Syatt: I’m not gonna be a senator.

0:13:31.2 Mike Vacanti: You could, though.

0:13:32.3 Jordan Syatt: Why did you say senator? A senator?

0:13:38.7 Mike Vacanti: Fine. You could be president one day. You get so offended if I’m getting into politics.

0:13:43.9 Jordan Syatt: You could be a mayor. You could literally be the mayor. You could be the head of your school board.

0:13:52.6 Mike Vacanti: Why did you say senator? You were so disgusted…

0:13:53.7 Jordan Syatt: You were going to have a library card one day if you really wanted.

0:13:56.6 Mike Vacanti: You were so angry that I said senator. I don’t know. I thought that was a big role. You have an interest and you have both an interest and an ability greater than I do in that arena.

0:14:10.7 Jordan Syatt: All right, okay. Anyway, we will skip it. We won’t have to talk about it. I thought it was… It’s crazy.

0:14:15.6 Mike Vacanti: Talk about it. I want to listen to your thoughts on it. No, genuinely, I had this sweet transition because Subodh was 34. And we were talking about age 34. But then I want to go back to this because I don’t know a lot about it, so I actually…

0:14:27.0 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know much about it either. I just see the craziness.

0:14:29.1 Mike Vacanti: I want to hear what you think of the craziness. Let’s actually dive right into it. The people are just licking their lips. We’ll do a quick. We’ll do a three minute recap.

0:14:36.4 Jordan Syatt: I don’t know much other than the craziness that I’ve seen, which is today I heard that there was actually a physical altercation between each Elon and one of the dudes in the White House. I forget his name, but they actually got in a fight several months ago over the big beautiful bill like a legit… Apparently Elon shoved him and then the other guy came at him throwing punches. And then Trump said, apparently, and I’m just quoting different posts that I saw, apparently Trump said “Elon’s a… He’s a big drug addict.”

0:15:05.4 Mike Vacanti: What?

0:15:06.3 Jordan Syatt: Apparently he’s a big drug addict is what Trump said about Elon.

0:15:10.0 Mike Vacanti: I heard that story, but I also heard that it was made up. Someone made it up.

0:15:14.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised. Frankly either way, it could be under exaggerated or it could be completely made up. Yeah, it’s also… Do you remember, obviously, when Will Smith smacked the fuck out of Chris Rock?

0:15:31.1 Mike Vacanti: I do.

0:15:32.4 Jordan Syatt: I remember when that happened and I was talking about it. People were asking me my opinion on Q&As and and I was just like, “Yeah, it was fucking bad.” And there were a bunch of people, a lot of people being like, “That was staged just to get more views.” And I was like, “You guys are idiots. That was 100% not staged in any way, shape or form.” And this is one reason why I’m glad when I speak out on certain topics, so I can always go back and prove this is what I said. But I was like, “This is gonna taint Will Smith’s career forever. He wouldn’t be willing to do that to boost the ratings on this show or whatever it is, this ceremony.” And then it came out, there was like, yeah, that was fucking real, da, da, da. Right now there are a lot of people who are being like, “Oh, it’s all staged. It’s a staged thing to try and get the Democrats mad at the conservatives.” I’m like, “This isn’t staged.” This is two dudes who are legitimately fucking going at it. There’s no benefit to either of them, especially for Trump, because Elon goes he’s like, “Yeah, Trump’s on Epstein’s list, by the way.” Did you see that?

0:16:40.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. I saw that tweet.

0:16:43.4 Jordan Syatt: He was like, yeah… I was like, there’s no way Trump would ever agree to be like, “Hey, here’s a good idea. Put that one out there. That’s going to be really good.” Are you stupid? This isn’t staged. They’re not playing 4D chess here. They’re fucking duking it out publicly. And that’s just what we see. I don’t even know what’s going on behind the scenes, but crazy.

0:17:05.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it definitely is crazy. It definitely is crazy.

0:17:10.1 Jordan Syatt: Good talk. Anyway, let’s go to the transition from Subodh 33 to 34.

0:17:14.4 Mike Vacanti: If the people are really interested in Mike’s thoughts on Elon versus Trump. I can imagine there’s zero people interested in this. But my primary thought is one of the podcasts I really liked over the years is called the All-In Podcast. And they talk about business, technology, politics have gotten sprinkled in, kind of more and more leading up to the 2024 election. But it was a diverse group in terms of a left leaning guy, a moderate guy, a right leaning guy, and then a center to center right guy. And they all shifted further right in 2024. And they have affiliate. Some have affiliation with Trump, some have affiliation with Elon, like for their friendships there. But basically these guys have recorded a weekly pod for, I don’t know, five. Basically since COVID and they release it every Friday, sometimes Saturday, but usually Friday. And the Trump Elon News dropped on, I want to say it was a Thursday, a Wednesday or a Thursday. Or it really started to heat up on a Wednesday or Thursday and they just mailed it in and didn’t record a podcast.

0:18:25.8 Jordan Syatt: Oh, really?

0:18:28.1 Mike Vacanti: And it was like… And maybe they recorded it and didn’t put it out, who knows? But it was one of those I don’t want… Never meet your heroes is too extreme because I don’t look at any of them that way. But it was a real like, all right, some if not the majority of you are putting your own personal aspirations and quest for power, money, whatever, like preserving relationships that are good for you over doing what they normally do, which is report on the most… Well the biggest things happening in business, finance, technology, politics and they just… And no one said anything they just like…

0:19:07.8 Jordan Syatt: They didn’t say a word? They were probably told. They were like, “Hey, don’t fucking…”

0:19:12.8 Mike Vacanti: They didn’t… No, I don’t think they were told by anyone. Some of them probably saw it wasn’t in their own best interest for what their goals are to…

0:19:23.8 Jordan Syatt: Talk about it.

0:19:24.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah.

0:19:26.7 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. They just didn’t release a podcast. They just didn’t discuss it whatsoever.

0:19:27.6 Mike Vacanti: Didn’t release a pod… Just didn’t upload a podcast.

0:19:30.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, wow. Anyway, Subodh, 33, let’s switch topics. I’m tired of this topic. Next topic. I’m just gonna do that from now on. Next topic.

0:19:39.9 Mike Vacanti: Dude, we should do that. Subodh, 34. Yeah, well, you tee this up because this is your topic.

0:19:47.9 Jordan Syatt: You tee it up.

0:19:48.7 Mike Vacanti: 34 is a number. I don’t know. You told me this. There are three tiers in life where either your health takes a drastic… The average person’s health takes a drastic decline. You’re looking it up to really nail the explanation. But Jordan, essentially… Jordan and I were talking about how we feel and our fitness, et cetera. And Jordan is now 34 years old, has been for about 33 days at this point, and said something to the effect of like, you’re really noticing something related to your health and fitness. And then you said you and Susan had had a discussion about 34.

0:20:29.2 Jordan Syatt: No, Susan made a post about it.

0:20:30.7 Mike Vacanti: Thanks Subodh. 34, 60, and 78 being these like… Can you explain this since it’s your subject?

0:20:40.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. There’s research showing, and I just pulled it up really quick, that apparently research suggests that aging occurs in three distinct shifts or jumps, with the most significant changes happening around the ages of 34, 60, and 78. Age 34, this jump is associated with changes in metabolism and other bodily functions impacting areas like muscle strength and immunity. Age 60, this is considered a midlife shift linked to changes in metabolism, heart health, and potentially increased oxidative stress. And 78, this jump is tied to late life aging, including declines in immune function, frailty and brain aging.

0:21:18.5 Mike Vacanti: I understand it from like an intuitive, if I think about my life from 0 to 34 and from 34 to 38, it feels things got a little bit harder. You notice a little more aches and pains. Training feels a little different. I notice it in certain ways. But the fact that age 34 and age 60, Grok or whoever you just read both led with changes in metabolism.

0:21:49.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It makes you question it.

0:21:50.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. It’s so strange to me because we have a lot of research on this and unless… We have a book in our chapter called WTF is metabolism or something along those lines, it’s all about metabolism because people often use the word and don’t know what it means. I would imagine in this context they’re referring to the exercise activity component of metabolism. Because we know for a fact that your BMR or RMR isn’t falling off at age 34. And probably not at age 60 very much. But I can see the argument that total daily energy expenditure is decreasing as a result of decreased activity and maybe more pronounced at those specific age numbers. But that can be offset through…

0:22:43.0 Jordan Syatt: I would imagine that’s it.

0:22:44.4 Mike Vacanti: Lifestyle, individual decision making. You’re super tired at 9:00 PM, but you go walk around the block six times anyway. That metabolic fall off doesn’t have to happen.

0:22:55.2 Jordan Syatt: No, it’s not inherent. It’s based on your lifestyle, I would imagine. It’s been interesting, not just for me personally, but over the last couple of years because I keep in touch with a fair amount of people from when I was younger in high school and stuff, as I know you do as well. And I feel like within the last couple of years I’ve noticed a big shift in other people around my age in terms of a lot of extra weight gain, noticing the way that they talk about themselves and about their own physical abilities and capabilities. Just like a dramatic drop off, a huge drop off, almost out of nowhere. Now, I don’t think this has to do with age as much as it is what they’re doing with their life. I don’t think it’s like all of a sudden they hit 30, 32, 34, 36, and all of a sudden oh, just something within caused this. I think that they were able to get away with more in their 20s because they felt better, they recovered more quickly. They were probably moving more whether they realized it or not. And now that they’re getting older, maybe having kids, working more sedentary jobs, working longer hours, not going out to the bar.

0:24:25.3 Jordan Syatt: Because even it’s funny, people think about going to the bars in their 20s and stuff. It’s like, yeah, you can consume a lot of calories and eat a lot of calories going to the bar, but you also burn a lot. Especially going bar hopping. You’re going around, you’re standing, you’re going table to table. You go to multiple bars. A night out, you could easily walk five to 15,000 steps, no problem. Then all of a sudden you’re in the 30s, you’re like, “No, I’m not going out. I’m gonna stay right here.”

0:24:49.5 Mike Vacanti: And they might stay on their couch, but consume the same amount of beer and same number of calories, but without moving around. You also have a 1% decline on average, year over year in testosterone in men from age 30 and beyond. 30 to 34 isn’t massive, but 30 to 40 is. High testosterone makes hard work feel good. You don’t want to work as hard, you’re burning fewer calories, you’re doing less. That’s a snowball going the wrong direction.

0:25:15.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s not that you can’t improve. I just think that most people’s lifestyle, especially in our culture, as they get into their 30s, it really starts to go down, which is… Then you double that, then you get to 60, and then you get to almost 80, and you’re like, “Yeah, fuck. People’s bone density is screwed up, their mental capacity is gone, and we’re seeing Alzheimer’s. And all these major issues crop up as a result of the lifestyle factors.” And obviously genetics plays a huge role in it. But I do think it’s interesting that… Those ages felt very correct to me, they just felt correct.

0:26:01.4 Mike Vacanti: Especially if we think about larger groups of people around those ages. And you see, it’s almost like a split in the road. You’re walking down a road and then there’s a V, and you can take one of two paths, and you see in the mid-30s all right, gain a bunch of extra body weight, less active, more health issues versus people who don’t and people who do the things to prevent that from happening. Around age 60, we see it as well, a lot of people needing various surgeries, knee replacements, et cetera, around that age. And then 77 or 78, was the other one. 34, 60 and 78, it’s like, is 78 to 93 going to be decent, fulfilling, happy years or… 78 or around 78 is the average life expectancy for people…

0:27:09.2 Jordan Syatt: I think it’s a little bit… A few years older. Yeah.

0:27:12.6 Mike Vacanti: And so it’s like, “Are you gonna continue to live another 10 to 15 years, or have you passed by then? Or are you in the process of. Are you fighting something that could take you out? Cancer, heart disease, et cetera?” But it motivated me. When you said it to me, just my intuition felt it in that, oh, yeah, things have definitely… And who knows, is it because of my age 34 to 38, or is it because of changes in how I live my life from 2021 to 2025? Who knows? But I felt, oh, yeah, I got away with more. And things were a bit easier pre 34 than post 34, which is motivating because it’s like, all right, I’m just going to adopt the habits and behaviors that I need to, to continue to live a great life, feel great, be extremely healthy, et cetera.

0:28:04.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s funny, I was just thinking that people might hear that age and it goes down, and then their thoughts are, “I’m gonna mail it in then. I’m just done. Well, I’m already here.” It should be the exact opposite. You should be like, “Oh, so this is when it gets more difficult. This is when I have to go even harder. This is when I’ve got to go fucking crazy.” And when I say crazy, it doesn’t mean spending three hours a day in the gym. What it means for me is I actually reduce the length of my sessions in the gym, but I make them more frequent. I’m doing something basically every day. Whereas before I would go so… Powerlifting days, I would go unbelievably hard four days a week in the gym, as hard as I could going to a max effort. Now it’s two times every 10 days I’ll go like, I never go that hard anymore. I never go that hard as I did when I was 24. But I go pretty hard. I go pretty fucking hard two times a week or two times every 10 days. And then the other eight days are moderate. I’m going and I’m doing something but I’m not going fucking balls to the wall, crazy, crazy, crazy. But it’s every day it’s doing something. It’s also because if I don’t do something, I feel way worse.

0:29:23.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, that’s a great reason to do something. 78.4 average life expectancy in the USA.

0:29:29.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh wow.

0:29:30.3 Mike Vacanti: On the subject of your high frequency workouts, congratulations on your splits, my man.

0:29:35.8 Jordan Syatt: Got em baby. I fucking did it.

0:29:38.9 Mike Vacanti: Side splits. This was actually on my mental list to talk to you about today.

0:29:42.2 Jordan Syatt: B to F.

0:29:44.1 Mike Vacanti: Balls to… Butthole to floor?

0:29:44.8 Jordan Syatt: Balls to floor. Butthole got there, but it was…

0:29:48.0 Mike Vacanti: You were there.

0:29:49.1 Jordan Syatt: Technically balls were there a while ago, but that’s cause just anatomy. But I wanted just flat.

0:29:56.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, full splits. I’m curious, any takeaways from the process and when you first started, did you think that it would take longer than it took this exact amount of time or did you think it would take less time to get here?

0:30:14.5 Jordan Syatt: No, I thought I’d have it in 30 days because all those fucking YouTube videos were like, “I got my splits in 30 days.” I got duped, bro. I got duped. There’s so many YouTube videos like, “How I got my side splits in 30 days.”

0:30:27.2 Mike Vacanti: That’s crazy.

0:30:28.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, tons. And then you go in and you start watching and you see the person who’s just starting their side split journey is actually almost there. And it’s like, “Okay, you took like a month off and now you lost a little bit of range. All right, relax.” So there was that. I thought it was going to be 30 days and then after a couple weeks I was like, “I’ll have it within six months.” And then after six… The first six months, I barely made any progress. I made a lot of progress my front splits in the first six months, side splits I made almost none. Then after six months is when I saw my first big jump. It was a year and a half, which looking at the actual data and speaking to my coach and other coaches and people who’ve done it averages about three years. I’m pretty stoked with a year and a half.

0:31:21.1 Mike Vacanti: Amazing.

0:31:24.2 Jordan Syatt: I’ve also been outrageously consistent. I haven’t missed a session and if I’m traveling or whatever, I still get it in. I literally haven’t missed a side split session in a year and a half. I’ve missed other workouts, but I haven’t missed a side split workout, so there’s that. One of the surprising things is overall my strength has continued to go up in literally everything that I’ve devoted strength to. The whole idea that stretching is going to make you weaker is… No shitty stretching is going to make you weaker. One of the cool things was…

0:32:00.2 Mike Vacanti: You’ve also continued to lift.

0:32:02.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I still lift. But there are a lot of people like, “You shouldn’t be stretching because it’s gonna… Your muscles are like elastic bands and the more you stretch them and then the more… ” It’s like, “All right, shut the fuck up. That’s not how they work at all.”

0:32:16.0 Mike Vacanti: Are there people who think that… I know there’s the acute argument where if you’re a high level lifter doing a bunch of static stretching pre workout might have slight strength performance detriment during that session. But are there people who are like, stretching in general is gonna make you weaker?

0:32:36.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:32:37.6 Mike Vacanti: That’s interesting.

0:32:38.2 Jordan Syatt: In the same way that there are people who say cardio in general will prevent you from building muscle. It’s like, same nonsense.

0:32:43.4 Mike Vacanti: Idiots.

0:32:46.2 Jordan Syatt: There are many different takeaways. I don’t wanna spend the whole time talking about it. The other cool one is that every split variation, whether it’s front side or pancake, improves the other splits. The improvements I made with my front split helped my side split. The improvements I made with my side split helped my front split the improvements… It’s in a similar way where it’s like I found out when I was powerlifting that if I got stronger with my dips, my weighted dips, I’d hit a bench press PR, if I got stronger with my weighted glute ham raises, I would hit a deadlift PR. I had these tester accessory exercises that would let me know if I was strong enough to hit a new personal record in the main lift. And it’s been cool to see that you don’t necessarily have to do that one thing. And in fact, if you only do that one thing, you’ll probably end up handicapping yourself. And it’s better to do a mix. That was the mistake I made my first time around in 2021 when I first started to do it, I only did side splits.

0:33:57.1 Jordan Syatt: I was like, “I only want the side splits. I’m only gonna go after the side splits.” And then I ended up tweaking my knee after a month, because that was just too much stress on the medial aspect of my knee. Whereas now doing all of them, it allowed me to recover more and also help benefit the articulations of my hips. And it basically was super helpful.

0:34:18.2 Mike Vacanti: There’s an important lesson in there is that you had made a little bit of an attempt at this in 2021.

0:34:23.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I did.

0:34:24.8 Mike Vacanti: People give up on goals way too easily. You actually are in one of the elite percentiles of not doing that. I remember being impressed with your Jiu Jitsu at some point in the 2020, 2021 range and finding out at that time that you had had multiple stints of trying to roll consistently before then, like years before that didn’t work out, and you found a way to get back on it and get consistent.

0:34:55.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it’s funny. I feel like I’m very much… I have a singular focus. Whatever that one thing is, that’s what I do. The years before when I was trying to get into Jiu Jitsu, my singular focus was business. So I kept trying to do it, and then I would get injured, and I was like, “Ah, fuck it. It’s just not worth it. I’m gonna go on business.” Then after a while, then Jiu Jitsu became my main focus. And then I just did that. And that’s actually… I tried to do the side splits while I was doing Jiu Jitsu and I got injured. I was like, “You know what? It’s not worth it. I just want to do Jiu Jitsu.” Then once I really… After a few more years of Jiu Jitsu, then I was like, “You know what? Now I really want to do the side splits, or I want to do the splits in general.” So I actually took a break. I literally took almost a year off Jiu Jitsu, and now I literally just got back into Jiu Jitsu in the last couple of weeks. So it’s like, whatever… I focus on one thing, and that’s it for literal years at a time.

0:35:46.0 Mike Vacanti: One thing as the main thing?

0:35:48.3 Jordan Syatt: As the main thing. Yeah.

0:35:48.9 Mike Vacanti: Dope.

0:35:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, man. That’s it.

0:35:50.6 Mike Vacanti: He’s a splits guy.

0:35:51.8 Jordan Syatt: How’s dad life?

0:35:53.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s good. It’s good. Everything’s good. It’s just tiring.

0:35:58.0 Jordan Syatt: It’s exhausting. Yeah.

0:35:58.8 Mike Vacanti: It’s tiring.

0:36:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Not getting good sleep.

0:36:01.6 Mike Vacanti: I can’t complain. I can’t complain.

0:36:04.6 Jordan Syatt: Which feed are you doing? Are you doing the…

0:36:06.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m doing like 9:00 PM, when I say it out loud, I really can’t complain. I do the 9:00 PM so she’s probably like down by 10:00. And then I’m doing the 4:00/4:30. And then I’ll try and go back to sleep after that one. But sometimes I just can’t. I mean, I can, but if I have Gary that… Sometimes I can’t schedule wise and sometimes I can’t if she’s fussy and she’s in our room in the bassinet and so sometimes… I’m just a light sleeper too. So the sleep quality is probably down. All champagne problems. Nothing I can complain about whatsoever. Things are good.

0:36:56.1 Jordan Syatt: But also, even if you’re able to rest, I’m using rest deliberately instead of sleep. Even if you’re resting and you’re trying to sleep, once you have your baby, you’re on high alert. You are on high… You’re checking, are you breathing? Are you okay? You can’t really sleep deeply. And it’s easier for us. It’s even way more difficult for the woman who actually gave birth to it that has biological responses. But it makes sense that you’re exhausted, even if that amount of sleep doesn’t sound terrible, which is definitely not good. Dude, it’s fucking… You’re chronically exhausted because you’re constantly on high alert. Makes total sense.

0:37:49.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But she’s doing really good. She’s healthy. Everyone here is good. So we’re good.

0:37:57.5 Jordan Syatt: You figure out that fund?

0:38:00.1 Mike Vacanti: No. You didn’t reply.

0:38:00.3 Jordan Syatt: I texted you. Yes, I did.

0:38:01.9 Mike Vacanti: Yes, you did. Thank you.

0:38:03.9 Jordan Syatt: There’s a fund. There’s a fund that a lot of parents will make college funds for their kids, which is amazing, it’s fantastic. My wife and I didn’t want… The issue with the college fund is that you can only use that money for college. And my number one, I feel like college wasn’t the best thing for me. Even though I did go. I mainly did it to make sure I had a relationship with my mom. My wife didn’t feel like college was the best thing for her either. And then just the way the world is going, college is becoming less and less and less important and people are caring less and less and less about it. So rather than only having a fund that can only be used for college, if our children decide they don’t want to go to the college route. If they want to go, great, they can use this money for college. If they don’t want to go to college, then they can use it for something else. Whether it’s starting their own business. They won’t be able to use it just for alcohol and drugs, like we’re not gonna be able to do that we’ll have control over it. But other ventures, even if it’s something like they want to go and volunteer for a year and travel, it’s like we can use that money for that as opposed to only being forced to use it for what some governing body deems education.

0:39:28.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. If you invest a bunch of money and at age 18, your kid can have that money. And in scenario one, they can only use it to go to an accredited university. And in scenario two, they can use that money for anything. Scenario two makes more sense. College is many years away for our children. And like you said, one, I don’t know that even right now it’s as valuable as it was 10 to 15 years ago, especially degree dependent. Two, I don’t know if the cost justifies the benefit you’re going to get from it. So it’s a better idea to keep your options open. I was just going to start a college fund and then you were like, “Oh, here’s what we did. You can use it for college or something else.” Like, “Oh, that makes a lot more sense.”

0:40:17.9 Jordan Syatt: Dude, especially with AI. It’s about to open up a big can of worms with jobs.

0:40:25.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. One of the benefits of college in… One of the underrated benefits of college in my experience is it’s like a… It weeds people out because it does take a lot of effort to get into a solid school and then get good grades and succeed at a solid school, regardless of what you’re learning there to accomplish that, is a filter of some kind. It’s not a perfect filter, obviously. Yeah, we’ll see.

0:41:02.0 Jordan Syatt: I’m highly biased, so I might be clouded in this, but I got through college with such little effort. It was incredible.

0:41:14.8 Mike Vacanti: Let me just make this super easy. Think of your entire high school graduating class. Take all of the kids who went to college and take all of the kids who didn’t go to college and look at what they’re all doing now. And take the… And some of the kids who went to college are now drug addicts and doing whatever. And some of the kids who didn’t go to college are absolutely crushing it, living amazing lives. But the Average. There’s gonna be a difference in the average.

0:41:38.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. That’s true. That’s an accurate statement. That’s correct.

0:41:42.2 Mike Vacanti: But I’m fully with you. I hated what I got my college degree in and use the couple of nutritional science courses that were electives that I got to take as part of the pre business application process way more every single day than the rest of my major focus. And so I’m fully with you on college. Let’s fire up a little Q & A. Let’s see what you got in your Q&A.

0:42:09.3 Jordan Syatt: Let’s start with the, do you offer flexibility programs just as a business discussion? I never got that question literally ever before a year ago.

0:42:19.1 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, because you’re doing it in your content.

0:42:20.6 Jordan Syatt: Because I’m doing it. And not only because I’m doing it, because I showed people I can do it. That’s it.

0:42:26.6 Mike Vacanti: Make content about the goals of the people who you want to coach.

0:42:30.7 Jordan Syatt: And equally important, don’t just talk the talk, walk the walk. Do it. If I just spoke about flexibility all the time, I’m sure I would get some people who would sign up based on flexibility. But it’s another thing to talk about. It’s another thing to fucking show it. If you want to show people how to lose fat, show them that you know how to lose fat. Show them. If you want to show people that you can get stronger, show them. Take them on that journey with you, show them. I get people asking about that all the time now. And I never used to get it before.

0:43:06.8 Mike Vacanti: And it’s harder. It’s harder to actually demonstrate it yourself rather than just talk about it. There’s reward and that difficulty in the number of people who will want to sign up with you for said goal.

0:43:19.1 Jordan Syatt: How many hours do you sleep?

0:43:20.4 Mike Vacanti: Oh, let’s review your sleep hours.

0:43:23.3 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:43:23.8 Mike Vacanti: We were going to do that at one point.

0:43:25.4 Jordan Syatt: Okay, Here we go. Tuesday, June 10th, sleep score 72, 4 hours and 47 minutes of sleep. That was last night.

0:43:38.8 Mike Vacanti: What time from what to what?

0:43:40.4 Jordan Syatt: That was from 2:26 to 7:14.

0:43:46.0 Mike Vacanti: Wow.

0:43:47.2 Jordan Syatt: Monday, June 9th, score of 76, 7 hours and 6 minutes. Sunday, here we go. This will get some good stuff. Sunday, I had a score of 93, 8 hours and 36 minutes.

0:44:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Let’s go.

0:44:01.4 Jordan Syatt: That was good. Saturday score of 71, 8 hours, 14 minutes. Friday score of 69, 5 hours and 18 minutes. Thursday, this was a sick one. Score of 90, 9 hours and 37 minutes. Wednesday score of 64, 6 hours, 29 minutes.

0:44:23.3 Mike Vacanti: Does it have an average for you.

0:44:25.2 Jordan Syatt: 7 hours and 9 minutes. Not bad.

0:44:28.2 Mike Vacanti: Good job, dad.

0:44:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Thanks, bro.

0:44:30.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Is seven hours historically what you would want?

0:44:36.4 Jordan Syatt: I wouldn’t say it’s what I would want.

0:44:38.0 Mike Vacanti: Did you pay close attention to sleep at any point?

0:44:40.5 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:44:41.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it’s not really… It’s not that you don’t care, it’s just regardless of how much you sleep, you’re just gonna do what you gotta do the next day. Genetic differences in sleep, amount of sleep required, are super interesting to me.

0:44:58.1 Jordan Syatt: Yes, agreed.

0:45:00.3 Mike Vacanti: Another thing that’s interesting to me is my own personal experience of the times where I felt like I needed the least sleep. You’re not going to like this at all. The times when I felt like I needed the least sleep and did amazing are when I was consistently meditating.

0:45:16.3 Jordan Syatt: I don’t not like that.

0:45:17.7 Mike Vacanti: Why not?

0:45:18.4 Jordan Syatt: I don’t care that you meditate, dude.

0:45:22.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s not about me. It’s just about the practice of meditation in general and your experiences with it.

0:45:28.1 Jordan Syatt: Dude. It makes sense because you love meditation.

0:45:30.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t at all. Not even remotely love it. It’s terrible. You sit there and you focus on your breath or you can’t do something fun. You can’t be scrolling, you can’t be eating, you can’t be doing anything. You’re literally just sitting there. It’s awful. I’m the opposite of love meditation. But I dislike how I am when I’m not doing it a lot of the times, and I like some of the benefits that come from it. In terms of reduced impulsivity, increased sleep quality. The few times when I’ve consistently meditated in the past, there is a gap between me feeling an emotion and me taking an action. It’s almost like there’s…

0:46:23.1 Jordan Syatt: The impulse control.

0:46:24.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Like time just slows down for me and I feel I’m in more control of my actions and emotions. It’s purely on a physiological, biochemical, neuro level. Meditation does something good to my brain.

0:46:40.7 Jordan Syatt: So you hate doing it, but you love how you feel once it’s done?

0:46:44.5 Mike Vacanti: Not even once it’s done in the acute sense of like, “Oh, I just did a great workout now I feel a high from it.” It’s like, I like how my 24 hours go when I’m consistently meditating compared to when I’m not consistently meditating. But yes, I do not like doing it while I’m doing it ever.

0:47:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Interesting. So when you’re doing it, you’re actively disliking it.

0:47:05.3 Mike Vacanti: Yes.

0:47:05.9 Jordan Syatt: What is the worst part? Actively doing it or thinking about minutes leading up to doing it? And you’re like, “Oh, I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna… I have to… ” When you’re about to do it, is that the worst part or is actively doing it the worst part?

0:47:20.9 Mike Vacanti: Depends on the day. Sometimes I’m so my body just wants to move and doesn’t want to sit there. That for a lot of things in life, I would say thinking about it leading up to it is the part I dislike more, for this actually doing it is what I dislike more.

0:47:37.3 Jordan Syatt: But you do it for like 20 minutes?

0:47:40.8 Mike Vacanti: I don’t do it at all Jordan. I got a five and a half week old. I got like a one day streak going over here.

0:47:49.0 Jordan Syatt: Historically.

0:47:50.6 Mike Vacanti: Historically I don’t do it. I’ve had like two or three good streaks in my life and the longest one was a handful of months.

0:47:57.9 Jordan Syatt: And in those handful of months, how long was your average meditation session?

0:48:02.8 Mike Vacanti: 20 minutes. Twice a day.

0:48:04.2 Jordan Syatt: Twice a day. I forgot about that part. That’s crazy.

0:48:08.1 Mike Vacanti: There’s a famous quote. If you don’t have time to meditate for five minutes, you should meditate for an hour.

0:48:13.3 Jordan Syatt: That is a very good one. F45 workouts.

0:48:17.0 Mike Vacanti: No, I’m not a… What do you think of F45 workouts?

0:48:20.8 Jordan Syatt: You don’t like them?

0:48:21.6 Mike Vacanti: I have never done a class and I just associate it with Orangetheory style of training. If I’m wrong there, tell me the difference between the two.

0:48:32.3 Jordan Syatt: Orangetheory and from what I believe is half treadmill, half weights. So it’s like they do like…

0:48:41.7 Mike Vacanti: Or some percentage of… Yeah.

0:48:43.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Something like that. Sort of like Barry’s Bootcamp, which candidly I think they’re really fun. I enjoy those workouts. F45, I feel like it’s more weight based. And they’ll do conditioning, but not as much. I’d say it’s a probably a little bit more athletic based. With that being said, I’m actually a… I really like these types of workouts for the average person. For the average individual F45 is great, Barry’s is great, Orange theories is great. They’re all fantastic. I don’t think that they are optimal for achieving a specific goal. And I wouldn’t write my workouts like that for a client of mine. There’s a reason why I don’t write workouts in the inner circle like that. But I look at them as number one, they have amazing communities. The people in those communities they often develop incredible relationships built around fitness and health, getting up early, training or whenever they work out. But they have a group that they train with and that’s like, that’s part of their community, which I love. They do focus on progressive overload. They do improve your overall.

0:50:05.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, they do. My wife took F45 for a couple years and I know people who teach Barry’s and Orangetheory. Obviously not every coach in general is going to be great no matter where you are. But they do focus on progressive overload. They do focus on… They do improve your strength, they do improve your overall conditioning and cardio. And the way that I look at it is that if nothing else, they’re going to get the average person significantly healthier and they are… I consider them a gateway drug to higher level fitness, where once you get into that you are far more likely to build up the confidence to say, “I want to go do something else.” I don’t agree with everything that they do, but I agree with far more than I disagree. And I think that they do a really good job of getting the average individual into a gym to get doing something that is going to for the average person, increase their strength, increase their cardio, improve their mental, physical and emotional health and get them involved in the fitness community. I really don’t have much bad to say. If we want to get into the nitty gritty, yeah, I can get into the nitty gritty of program design and stuff that I really don’t like. But if I’m looking at it globally, I’m actually a pretty big fan of them.

0:51:30.1 Mike Vacanti: I’ve never seen one of these boot camps that provide adequate rest time. I don’t think I’ve ever even seen one with more than a one to one work to rest ratio. And the goal of the people going there isn’t to improve their… I shouldn’t say that. Everyone who’s ever come to me and talk to me about it, their primary goal is, “I want to lose body fat, I want to look better, I want to feel better.” It’s not, “I want to take my VO2 max from like the 75th percentile to the 90th percentile.” No one I’ve talked to is trying to do that. And so the main thing is this obsession with calorie expenditure via the class where that should be zero percent of the focus. If you’re trying to create a caloric deficit, you’re doing it through nutrition. You’re not doing it through micromanaging, a bad estimate of calories burned during this one hour a week. And my second main criticism, which is definitely lesser, and there’s a higher variance here, meaning some classes do a really good job and some classes don’t do a good job, are on proper technique, solid exercise selection, and having a coach or instructor who is making sure that everyone is performing the moves correctly and not hurting themselves. But my first critique, the main one, is just for people who are trying to get leaner and look and feel better, it’s not the proper way to work out.

0:53:05.9 Jordan Syatt: I struggle with that. I struggle with that because, there are many people who do those workouts and they get leaner and stronger. I don’t think it’s optimal. I don’t think it’s optimal. But I can’t deny that people are getting stronger and improving. I would imagine that they’re improving their health and improving their bone density, improving their muscle mass. I don’t think it’s optimal whatsoever. But I also can’t be like, it doesn’t work and it’s the wrong way.

0:53:34.5 Mike Vacanti: I think it’s the wrong way. I’ve only seen people, and my sample size might be limited, but I’ve only seen the people who only do these classes and nothing else, out having bottles of wine, eating cheesecake, trying to burn those calories off the next day at their Orangetheory class and not happy with the type of body count progress they make over time. I agree with you that compared to doing nothing, doing these classes with proper technique will lead to better health outcomes, all else equal. But in practice, I haven’t seen people achieve their goals via these classes. Now, I’ve seen survivorship bias. I’ve seen people who are like workout fanatics who do these classes every single day and they go to their own training in the afternoon and they just love working out, have great physiques and impressive performance and be very strong doing that. But for the average person who wants to lose 30 pounds of fat, who signs up for this class thinking it’s going to help them, I’ve seen a very, very low percentage success rate.

0:54:41.8 Jordan Syatt: I feel like we’re comparing apples to oranges. Because if someone did our workouts and then went home and ate like shit and drank wine.

0:54:52.2 Mike Vacanti: When they do when they do our workout, we’re teaching them about nutrition.

0:54:55.1 Jordan Syatt: Right. But not everyone is going to do both. But I don’t think these gyms are sick. I don’t think the…

0:55:00.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Orangetheory for sure is focused on calorie expenditure within the workout.

0:55:05.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, they are. I agree. Their focus is on, “Hey, we want to get you into this zone so you can burn fat.” I completely agree. Let’s look at it this way. What about the people who do it who don’t just eat like shit all the time and they do get their nutrition in check, would those people lose fat and build muscle and improve their health?

0:55:33.5 Mike Vacanti: Yes. I haven’t seen it. Because that’s not the focus of the classes.

0:55:36.9 Jordan Syatt: You haven’t seen it. Like, actually, people doing that you just don’t know those people.

0:55:40.8 Mike Vacanti: Correct.

0:55:41.3 Jordan Syatt: Got it. Yeah, got it. Okay. So that’s what I mean. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it in people who have gone to those classes, and not only have those classes improved their health and those were the… They got their nutrition in check and all that, but it’s also the phrase that I use was like, it’s that gateway drug. That was the first thing that they did to get them more comfortable and confident in it, to get them to go even further. Again, while I don’t think it’s anywhere near optimal, which is why I don’t program that way in any way, shape or form, I’m so hesitant to hate on them because when the alternative is for so many people, well, I just won’t do it at all. I’m like, I’m not gonna hate on it.

0:56:25.2 Mike Vacanti: Why does that have to be the alternative, though?

0:56:27.0 Jordan Syatt: I don’t like that it is the alternative, but just realistically, being like a realist and not an idealist, that is for so many people. And again, I have no issue saying…

0:56:37.0 Mike Vacanti: To overpay, you could join Planet Fitness for $10 a month, save a whole bunch of money, not have to listen to the obnoxiously loud music, not have to do the suboptimally designed programs, not have to wear the heart rate monitor and track your calories, which aren’t accurate. Agree to disagree. I’m not a fan at all of these classes.

0:56:56.9 Jordan Syatt: We’ll agree to disagree. Yeah, we’ll agree to disagree. I took a couple Barry’s classes, and they were fucking fun.

0:57:05.5 Mike Vacanti: Dude. Some of the least fun moments of my life are walking within the vicinity of these classes and hearing the loud music and seeing the psychopath up there trying to get their calorie expenditure for the class as high as possible and compete with everyone else on calorie expenditure. Yeah, we’ll agree to disagree more than we ever have. Get in the weight room, get a properly designed training program, focus on nutrition, and stop obsessing over calorie burn in a workout with zero rest time, wondering why you’re not making progress.

0:57:43.6 Jordan Syatt: Hey, join the mentorship. Apply link in the show notes, and if you were accepted, don’t sleep on it. And if you weren’t accepted this time, try again at the next sale in about six months to a year.

0:57:58.0 Mike Vacanti: Boom. See you next week.

0:58:00.3 Jordan Syatt: See ya.