Episode 232: Is Collagen Worth It? The Truth About Artificial Sweeteners, Caffeine Controversies, The Big Beautiful Bill, And More…

0:00:11.7 Mike Vacanti: Hello, Jordan.

0:00:12.4 Jordan Syatt: What’s up, Michael?

0:00:13.3 Mike Vacanti: If you were in New York City tonight, what would you eat for dinner?

0:00:16.8 Jordan Syatt: I would go to an Israeli restaurant called Balabusta.

0:00:21.6 Mike Vacanti: What would you order?

0:00:23.7 Jordan Syatt: I would probably get, obviously, the hummus, and then I’d probably, you know what? I would probably go with some shawarma, just for… I’m thinking for you, like shawarma, but also I would get falafel with it as well. But hummus, falafel, maybe some eggplant, shawarma. I would get that. I feel like you’d like that.

0:00:45.5 Mike Vacanti: What’s your runner-up?

0:00:47.2 Jordan Syatt: There’s this amazing, so that would be a little bit lower cost, but really high quality. On the higher end is another Mediterranean restaurant called Nerai. It’s more expensive, but it’s so freaking good, dude.

0:01:07.2 Mike Vacanti: Is it?

0:01:08.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. And I would get the salmon.

0:01:08.9 Mike Vacanti: Are you off sushi these days?

0:01:10.4 Jordan Syatt: I had sushi, not yesterday, the day before.

0:01:13.8 Mike Vacanti: I thought that would be your go-to.

0:01:16.3 Jordan Syatt: Well, I’m just thinking, I still have sushi on a regular basis, but Mediterranean food is a little bit more difficult to come by. So the Mediterranean food there is just, there’s a lot of straight up Israeli restaurants there, and Nerai, and Balabusta specifically. It’s super good.

0:01:34.3 Mike Vacanti: All right, pick a number one through seven.

0:01:37.1 Jordan Syatt: Seven.

0:01:37.8 Mike Vacanti: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

0:01:42.6 Jordan Syatt: I thought you were gonna do something like O’s.

0:01:48.0 Mike Vacanti: No. Did you know…

0:01:49.3 Jordan Syatt: The mentalist.

0:01:50.6 Mike Vacanti: Did you know, Jordan, this insane fact? In October of 1994, ‘Pulp Fiction’, ‘The Lion King’, ‘Jurassic Park’, ‘Shawshank Redemption’, and ‘Forrest Gump’ were all in theaters at the same time.

0:02:04.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s insane. That’s absolutely insane. Some of the greatest movies of all time.

0:02:10.8 Mike Vacanti: I’ve seen one good new movie in the last four years, and those were all in the theater in the same month.

0:02:17.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, none of the movies now are good.

0:02:19.6 Mike Vacanti: No.

0:02:20.2 Jordan Syatt: None of the movies made now. If I watch a good movie, it’s from the past.

0:02:25.8 Mike Vacanti: Correct. The only good movie that I remember seeing in the last four years is the second ‘Top Gun’.

0:02:31.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, was that good?

0:02:32.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, it was.

0:02:33.7 Jordan Syatt: There are some good TV shows. There are some good TV shows. You didn’t watch ‘Squid Games’, did you?

0:02:39.7 Mike Vacanti: I didn’t.

0:02:40.9 Jordan Syatt: Bro, I just watched the second season. It’s really good.

0:02:44.8 Mike Vacanti: Is it dubbed English? The mouths don’t match up to the words?

0:02:50.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, technically it’s dubbed, but you almost like don’t even realize it.

0:02:53.0 Mike Vacanti: I tried, like four times. I watched the first five minutes of ‘Squid Games’ one four times.

0:02:58.8 Jordan Syatt: Bro, you gotta give it more of a chance. It’s really good.

0:03:02.0 Mike Vacanti: I can’t do when the lips don’t match up to the words, I can’t. I just can’t do it. [laughter] Physiologically, I can’t.

0:03:13.7 Jordan Syatt: You’re like, this isn’t how it’s supposed to be.

0:03:16.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know what it is, my brain just can’t. All right, I’m gonna pick a number now. You have three things for us?

0:03:20.4 Jordan Syatt: No, I’ve got one right now. I’m sure I’ll come up with…

0:03:24.7 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I gave you a warning.

0:03:25.6 Jordan Syatt: I don’t have them written down like you do. I’ll come up with more, but I’ve got more, I’ve got more, but I don’t have them written down like you do. But dude, you know what I’ve changed my mind? Not even changed my mind, but I…

0:03:39.2 Mike Vacanti: Is this one of your three?

0:03:40.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah.

0:03:41.4 Mike Vacanti: Okay. This is one of your one?

0:03:43.2 Jordan Syatt: No, I’ve got more. I’ve got more.

0:03:44.6 Mike Vacanti: Well, then why can’t we do one, two, three?

0:03:46.2 Jordan Syatt: Because they’re not written down in a certain order. So if you picked a number, then I would just still be picking a random one because they’re not written down in order one, two, three.

0:03:53.0 Mike Vacanti: Okay. Fair.

0:03:56.2 Jordan Syatt: Guess what I just ordered on Amazon.

0:04:00.1 Mike Vacanti: A lacrosse ball.

0:04:00.6 Jordan Syatt: I already have numerous lacrosse balls, including one with your brand on it.

0:04:06.4 Mike Vacanti: The OTR yellow lacrosse ball?

0:04:08.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I’ve got that already.

0:04:10.1 Mike Vacanti: I wonder if any OG listeners have an OTR branded lacrosse ball. That’d be interesting…

0:04:15.5 Jordan Syatt: That would be amazing.

0:04:17.3 Mike Vacanti: What did you order on Amazon? You ordered a new handle to do loaded QL work on your cable machine.

0:04:27.4 Jordan Syatt: It’s actually a really funny guess. No, that’s not what I ordered. It is…

0:04:32.5 Mike Vacanti: I’d like to keep guessing.

0:04:34.0 Jordan Syatt: Okay. Keep guessing.

0:04:35.5 Mike Vacanti: You can give me that hint you were about to give.

0:04:37.5 Jordan Syatt: Do you want the hint or it’s going to give you a pretty big…

0:04:39.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, you can give me a big hint.

0:04:41.1 Jordan Syatt: Okay. It’s in the fitness realm, but it’s not workout equipment.

0:04:46.3 Mike Vacanti: You bought a food scale.

0:04:47.5 Jordan Syatt: That’s a great guess, but no. I have a food scale already.

0:04:50.5 Mike Vacanti: You bought the fitness realm, but it’s not equipment. Is it apparel?

0:04:56.6 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:04:57.0 Mike Vacanti: Is it nutrition related?

0:04:58.6 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:05:00.2 Mike Vacanti: Is it a supplement?

0:05:00.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes.

0:05:01.0 Mike Vacanti: Is it fish oil?

0:05:02.5 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:05:03.0 Mike Vacanti: Is it vitamin D?

0:05:04.6 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:05:05.0 Mike Vacanti: Is it melatonin?

0:05:06.2 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:05:09.2 Mike Vacanti: You bought a supplement off of, is it a multivitamin?

0:05:12.7 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:05:13.1 Mike Vacanti: Is it a protein powder?

0:05:14.6 Jordan Syatt: Technically, yes.

0:05:16.0 Mike Vacanti: Is it collagen?

0:05:17.3 Jordan Syatt: Yes. Yes, it is. I got collagen. I sat down with the great Alan Aragon for a two hour and five zero, two hour and 50 minute podcast.

0:05:29.1 Mike Vacanti: The goat. The OG.

0:05:31.5 Jordan Syatt: At the end of the podcast, he was really excited. He was like, “I’ve been wanting to go that in depth on collagen for a while. And he just hadn’t had a chance.” He went in depth on collagen protein and really called out a lot of the industry for the nonsense around like the hatred of it or like the just poo pooing of it. And he explained on a biological level what it does. And I can’t reiterate it. And I haven’t checked any of the research, but he’s one of those guys there when he says he’s gone into the research.

0:06:05.9 Mike Vacanti: You trust him.

0:06:06.9 Jordan Syatt: I just trust him implicitly. So I just ordered a fuck ton of collagen protein. And it was funny because as I was doing the podcast, Alan is here. His wife was here. And we said to his wife, “You can sit in and in the room.” And she’s like, “No, I’m going to distract Alan or I’m going to be like coughing.” She just sat out in the kitchen and Mitch gave her the… We have an iPad. So if a guest is here, they can watch the recording while it’s being recorded.

0:06:34.1 Jordan Syatt: And so my wife and Alan’s wife were watching the podcast. And apparently right when I said, “I’m going to have to get some collagen.” My wife goes like, “We have to get college.” He was just talking it up and he has no affiliations with it whatsoever. I immediately texted Miles from Legion Athletics. I was like, “Do you guys sell collagen protein?” He’s like, “No.” I was like, “Well, I just got off a podcast with Alan. You guys need to start selling it immediately.” So we’ll see if Legion starts doing it.

0:07:01.5 Mike Vacanti: Mike’s so smart. It’s probably just too commoditized that there’s no way to differentiate.

0:07:07.2 Jordan Syatt: But I would have pushed it for Legion. If it was a… They only do high quality supplements, so I just don’t know the cost of making it versus distribution da, da, da.

0:07:17.1 Mike Vacanti: I feel like I remember him saying something on a podcast a while, while back about why they don’t sell straight creatine and instead included it like within another product.

0:07:28.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, that’s actually genius.

0:07:29.8 Mike Vacanti: Because they can’t compete on margin with these big companies on… There’s no way to differentiate creatine monohydrate. Companies are trying to do it now with gummies and like weird gimmicky stuff so they can drive margins. But protein powder you can compete because you have these innovative flavors and textures. But when it’s something as basic as like a creatine monohydrate, and I would assume collagen powder falls under there. These companies that have massive economies of scale, you’re just not going to…

0:08:01.6 Jordan Syatt: That makes sense. I didn’t even think about that. That makes total sense.

0:08:05.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, good. I’m glad my intuition from 2000 and… It actually wasn’t intuition. I was basing off of one or two studies of type two undenatured collagen powder. Are you not giving me credit for being five years ahead on this? Or did you forget that I’ve been taking collagen forever?

0:08:25.3 Jordan Syatt: Actually I did forget you’ve been taking it. I know that you’ve always said like it should count towards your protein.

0:08:30.9 Mike Vacanti: It was in my pre workout for four years.

0:08:33.5 Jordan Syatt: I completely forgot that.

0:08:35.6 Mike Vacanti: No, you didn’t. Beat juice, collagen. Like I remember the beat juice… You asked me about it three to five times on this podcast like, “Why do you take collagen again? In 2022, 2023.” You probably saw all these smart people in the industry being like, “Collagen sucks, collagen sucks.” And I was continually taking collagen. You’re like, “Why are you taking collagen again?” And now here we are in 2025.

0:08:53.7 Jordan Syatt: I completely forgot that you’re taking collagen.

0:08:56.0 Mike Vacanti: It’s okay. When you’re off social media and you’re not listening to… When you’re not just caught up in the herd and the consensus but you act from first principles when you’re out seeking your own information when you’re reading books and articles and not just the newest reel from whatever gimmicky fitness account. You get an underlying understanding of truth that I think a lot of people are missing in today’s day and age.

0:09:22.1 Jordan Syatt: Amen.

0:09:22.7 Mike Vacanti: We need more Alan Aragon’s. And we need less of everyone else. That’s what we need.

0:09:29.1 Jordan Syatt: Agreed. That’s exactly right. Completely agree. What kind of collagen do you take?

0:09:34.1 Mike Vacanti: The same one I’ve been buying on it. You know what? This will be fun. This will be really fun actually.

0:09:38.9 Jordan Syatt: You’re going to look at the first time you ordered it. But which one… Is it vital proteins?

0:09:43.6 Mike Vacanti: It’s got a cow on it.

0:09:45.5 Jordan Syatt: No.

0:09:48.2 Mike Vacanti: It’s got a cow. All right. 2021. Not bad.

0:09:49.5 Jordan Syatt: Dude, it’s amazing. That’s five years. Four years.

0:09:52.2 Mike Vacanti: That seems right. In COVID.

0:09:54.5 Jordan Syatt: During COVID, you’re like, shit, my skin.

0:09:56.5 Mike Vacanti: No, I’ve never done it for skin. And then you always say this. You’re like, “Oh, for skin, right?” [laughter] No. I haven’t had a skin issue since I was 18. A lot of the research around joint health and soft tissue. Skin, hair, and nail. If we’re going to talk about aesthetics. We don’t even need to go down that road. All right. Jordan’s on the collagen bandwagon.

0:10:24.9 Jordan Syatt: How much do you take? Five grams, 10 grams, 15 grams?

0:10:27.5 Mike Vacanti: One scoop is either 11 or 12 grams. And I just put one scoop in.

0:10:31.4 Jordan Syatt: Nice. Sick.

0:10:33.1 Mike Vacanti: Pick another one.

0:10:35.4 Jordan Syatt: Four. I knew.

0:10:37.1 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. One, two, three, four. Dude, you said the smartest money thing to me you’ve ever said the other day.

0:10:43.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, I know exactly what you’re talking about because I’ve replayed this in my head many times. I felt like, “Oh, yeah.”

0:10:49.9 Mike Vacanti: Did I tell you at the time it was really smart?

0:10:54.2 Jordan Syatt: You said something to the effect of that was really smart. That’s a really good way of looking at it. And when I say something related to finances that you say, wow, that was a really smart way of looking at it. That will forever be imprinted on my brain as a really great moment in my life.

0:11:11.5 Mike Vacanti: It was. We were talking about Trump’s big, beautiful bill and the tax implications in it. And I am not deep in it, but what I did see was that the increased standard deduction is being upheld through 2028 or 2029. So the standard deduction is the amount that everyone gets to write off against their income to reduce the amount of taxes they pay each year. And so having a higher standard deduction means a bigger “write off” to off income. So it’s tax savings, essentially. But a standard deduction for someone who’s self employed with their own business usually isn’t beneficial because we itemize deductions. So if you’re a personal trainer and you’re traveling to St. Louis to go to a fitness conference, the cost of your flight, your hotel, your food, et cetera, that’s all a write off. If you join a business course or get a certification or something to help you become a better coach or personal trainer, that’s a write off. All of these things, any business travel you’re doing, that’s a write off. Those are called itemized deductions, and you add them all up, and usually they’re greater than the standard deduction. So you can take the larger part of the standard deduction or your itemized deduction, if they’re bigger than the standard deduction, and write them off against your income.

0:12:45.4 Mike Vacanti: I said to you, basically, the tax benefit of the bill is keeping the standard deduction higher, which doesn’t really affect us because we itemize. And you said, yes, but something to the effect of if everyone has greater tax savings, then they have more disposable income that they can spend, which is going to be good for our businesses because then they can buy our products or services and that like income thinking… It was a thought that hadn’t even crossed my mind, I’m ashamed to say. Yeah. Heading out to Jordan.

0:13:27.3 Jordan Syatt: Let’s go, baby.

0:13:28.8 Mike Vacanti: Well done.

0:13:30.2 Jordan Syatt: Let’s go. Yeah, man. Yeah. And did the bill pass? Did the bill go through? I don’t know.

0:13:37.3 Mike Vacanti: The last thing I heard was Polymarket had it at like, a 98% chance of passing. I don’t know. I’m so checked out of politics outside of this Epstein stuff.

0:13:49.2 Jordan Syatt: Oh, my gosh, dude. Holy shit. That’s fucking crazy.

0:13:55.1 Mike Vacanti: Crazy. But I think it either passed or is passing.

0:13:58.5 Jordan Syatt: I just think what’s interesting as a small business owner, you have to be in tune, more in tune with the economy than I feel like someone who their paycheck is the same every week or every two weeks or every month. Obviously, someone could be looking at macroeconomics or microeconomics, or someone could be looking at the economy from afar. But when your paycheck is not guaranteed to be the same week over week, month over month, year over year, and it’s impacted directly by the state of the economy, I feel like I tend to be more in tune with it. And so it is interesting for me with several businesses to see what’s happened. I would say, I don’t know, but from 2022 to 2025, and then within the first six, seven months of 2025. I will say there were… Just on my end alone, it does appear as though… And actually it’s not even just in the US. It’s actually really interesting, now that I think about it, during that ’22 to ’24 or even essentially ’25 time frame, a lot of Canadians were really struggling with inner circle payments.

0:15:31.6 Jordan Syatt: Just the Canadian economy relative to the dollar isn’t the best. But since I would say over the last six, seven months, at least in the US there’s been a huge influx of jobs. Jobs have gone up dramatically. Inflation is down dramatically. The market is ripping. And just data wise, looking at the numbers across business, it is very interesting to see significant improvements. And it’s hard to point and say, “Well, it’s because of this one thing.” But it is. It would also be equally disingenuous to say there’s no way that’s played a role in it.

0:16:09.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Market is ripping. The Canadian dollar is doing well relative to the US dollar because the US dollar has been trash in 2025. It’s down like 11% or something as of now. Yes, all of the rest is true and 100% paying attention to macroeconomic trends, especially as your business gets bigger, makes sense to allocate some percentage of your time and energy. If you have two clients, you don’t need to be like, sweating the markets on a daily basis. Focus on making good, helpful educational content. Yeah.

0:16:55.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. When you’ve got employees and you’ve got stuff like all of a sudden, yeah, you got to pay attention to a little bit more.

0:17:01.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, absolutely. Am I picking or are you picking?

0:17:06.0 Jordan Syatt: No, I’m picking. Let me ask you, I’m trying to figure out how I want to frame this question. You know what, I’ll just say it rather than asking a question and then we’ll have a discussion around it. I asked Grok, and I’m going to be experimenting with perplexity, by the way, as a side note, completely separate from this discussion. But I asked Grok to compile all of the known data on strength training.

0:17:34.2 Mike Vacanti: Why’d you throw that in there?

0:17:35.3 Jordan Syatt: I just want to try all the different options, especially as it gets more and more advanced and as more come out, I just want to try it and see what it’s like. So I asked Grok, I said, “I want you to compile all of the available research on strength training and plyometrics. And I want you to pit them against each other. And I want you to tell me if you could only choose one,” and I hate when people do this, but I wanted to see, “If you could only choose one specifically for bone density, would you choose strength training or plyometrics?” And it did its little calculation and it started to reference all these different studies and it was like, based on all the available data, what would you say? Before I tell you, do you think Grok is going to say based on all the available data, strength training or plyometrics?

0:18:22.9 Mike Vacanti: You would only bring this up if the answer was plyometrics.

0:18:26.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Okay, you’re always the mentalist. That’s right, correct. Plyometrics was the answer. And then I went in more detail asking why, what’s going on? And it explained the… What do you want to say? Go for it.

0:18:39.0 Mike Vacanti: I had a client who basically saw someone with the specific intent, and I’m trying to remember if it was a doctor or physical therapist, but with the specific intent of designing a training program to maximize bone mineral density or minimize the reduction of bone mineral density. And there were some very interesting aspects of the program that were like, not plyometric, but like hanging from a pull-up bar and dropping to the ground, like doing five sets of that.

0:19:22.0 Jordan Syatt: Plyometrics. Depth drops. Yeah.

0:19:23.9 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. But the program that that person made was optimized for maximizing bone mineral density at the expense of many other things. It was a very bare-bones program. It had barbell back squatting and deadlifting, the same set and rep range multiple times a week, both to maximal intensity. There was very little movement on any other planes of movement. And I was like, “We can try this.” However, I would imagine ABC is going to happen. Your joints aren’t going to feel as good pretty quickly here. You’re going to develop some overuse, not necessarily injuries, but nagging pains. But let’s give it a shot. And within six weeks, she was like, “I want to go back… “

0:20:12.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, of course. Squatting and deadlifting at maximal intensity several times a week is wild.

0:20:17.1 Mike Vacanti: And we didn’t even do that. I was like, you can do one day a week of each, but then I’m going to…

0:20:20.7 Jordan Syatt: That’s still tough. Yeah.

0:20:24.3 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s starting strength.

0:20:26.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Was she intermediate, advanced?

0:20:30.9 Mike Vacanti: Intermediate. Yeah.

0:20:32.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. So it’s taking a bigger toll. She has it stronger. But I thought it was really interesting. And it went into the explanations as to why from like a physiological level, what’s happening stress wise on the bones when you’re strength training versus when you’re doing a plyometric activity, which makes sense. There’s more stress, direct stress on the bones from plyometrics relative to strength. So the stress from from strength training, it depends on the type of strength training. So it’s like, for example, a leg extension or a leg curl is not nearly as good from a bone density perspective as something like a squat or a deadlift. Because you have way more force coming down on your bones from the squat or the deadlift relative to the leg extension, leg curl.

0:21:20.6 Jordan Syatt: There obviously is research showing very clearly, and one study specifically stood out to me in postmenopausal woman who are trying to improve bone density and leg extension, leg curl did improve it. But something like a goblet squat or a lunge probably would have been better as you have more direct loading on the bones. But it’s coming from… Obviously you get the extra weight. But as you’re moving, the muscles are pulling on the bones in order to create that movement.

0:21:48.0 Jordan Syatt: So that’s where you get a lot of that stress on the bone and the bone density improvement, whereas with plyometrics, you’re actually having direct impact. It’s that impact stress on the bone that leads to the… I’m going to use terminology probably incorrectly, but to create more osteoblasts to help increase bone density. But me going into and I feel like there’s something I’m doing as I get older father trying to just be all around like… It’s funny, I literally now train. So almost solely for as I age, just for performance as I age. And I just think so much about the strength industry. And there have been so many times that the hardcore strength industry has prioritized strength at the expense of literally everything else. Sort of like how the program you just mentioned prioritized bone density at the expense of everything else. It’s like the strength industry…

0:22:51.9 Mike Vacanti: And now I’m remembering it also had a barbell overhead press twice a week. And that was the program.

0:23:00.8 Jordan Syatt: I remember when we were younger, it was just strength training. You don’t need cardio. And the whole phrase of lifting weights faster is my cardio. And that was a whole thing in the strength world. You don’t need cardio. You just need to lift weights faster. And then there’s the whole like, you don’t need to do any mobility work. You just need to strength train. That’s fine. And I feel the strength world, and I’m sure this happens in every realm of the industry, but in the strength world, it’s strength is most important and nothing else. And I feel it’s actually doing a disservice to the people who are just trying to improve their overall health, trying to be more holistic in everything where you can… Just because strength might be the ultimate priority doesn’t mean it’s strength at the expense of everything else.

0:23:51.3 Mike Vacanti: For sure. Even a simple comparison, comparing cardio and strength there, it’s like, what is better for the average 50-year-old man or woman? Spending all of your training hours every week on maximal strength or spending some of your time strength training and some of your time zone two cardio and maybe a little bit of time doing a higher intensity cardio, like what is better for your health from age 50 to 70? It’s very clear not spending every second trying to maximize strength. Unless you’re trying to be a world champion powerlifter, in which case you’re not trying to optimize your health. You’re trying to be the best at something.

0:24:29.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Be the best strength athlete.

0:24:31.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Cool. So incorporating some plyometrics is something that you’re advocating for bone mineral density.

0:24:45.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. But then obviously I’m not going to have someone who’s 300 pounds and hasn’t exercised at all. I’m not going to have them start off with plyometrics, but I would say once you’re past the intermediate or once you’re past the beginner stage and you’re in an appropriate weight range, that’s when I would start doing it. Because the other side of it is, if you look at people who are chronically overweight, they actually do end up having significantly better bone mineral density. Yeah. Because they have more stress on their bones. So there’s no need to stress the muscles and tendons and ligaments.

[overlapping conversation]

0:25:17.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly. Just fucking lose the weight and then we can get that stress back through plyos. But first you got to lose the weight.

0:25:23.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And starting with a very basic plyometric program or a very low volume of plyometrics, not diving in headfirst.

0:25:32.2 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. It’s not even like a whole plyometric program. It’s just one exercise a couple times a week.

0:25:37.0 Mike Vacanti: Working them into your program. Exactly.

0:25:39.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. As part of the warmup.

0:25:40.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. We’re not going full… Gosh, how am I blanking on the guy’s name? Tony Horton, P90X, plyo day. Which was…

0:25:47.9 Jordan Syatt: Oh yeah, dude. Oh, my gosh.

0:25:50.2 Mike Vacanti: We’ve had some back and forth because I got pretty jacked on P90X myself when we we’re in college, but I was skipping the plyo day and the leg day. I was just doing the two upper body days and the ab day.

0:26:01.0 Jordan Syatt: And the leg day.

0:26:05.3 Mike Vacanti: The leg day was so… It was legs and back. And you’re super setting like Bulgarian split squats with pull-ups to failure for many sets. Like it was just brutal.

0:26:15.1 Jordan Syatt: Oh my gosh. That’s devastating.

0:26:17.2 Mike Vacanti: Effective, but a little too much. Okay. Good job. Let’s all recognize Jordan bringing two things to the pod right there. That was awesome. One, a heuristic to determine if you’re on the right track in life. Do you admire the person 1/2/3 levels ahead of you?

0:26:39.8 Mike Vacanti: Someone said something that made me… They were talking about a job that they hated and we don’t need to go super in depth on this. We talked about quitting your 9:00 to 5:00 last week, but they were talking about I don’t… They hated their job and they were thinking, “I don’t want to be like my boss. I don’t want my boss’s life. I don’t want my boss’s job, salary, lifestyle, et cetera. I don’t want that.” And it made me think back to public accounting and I had a boss who I felt similarly about where it was like, nice guy, really hard worker. But I remember him telling me, yeah, every vacation I’ve been on for the last like five years, I’ve been sick on every vacation because before the vacation, I work a hundred hours a week to get my work done ahead of time, because that’s what the partner wants before the vacation. So I don’t miss anything, but I burned myself out and then I’m sick on vacation. And so I spend the whole vacation in my hotel room because I’m just sick and it’s been literally every vacation for five years.

0:27:39.7 Mike Vacanti: Anyway, a helpful heuristic to, do I want to be doing this is, do you possess admiration or do you respect or want or like the lifestyle of the people just a couple rungs ahead of you on that path? I’ve thought that about, looking at JC Dean’s blog back in the day and seeing what he was offering in like 2012 and thinking, Oh, that would be really cool to sell a workout program. I would love to do something in the online fitness space. And I’ve had it reflected back to me like, “Oh, I watched your vlogs, Mike, and it made me want to move to New York and get a job and start working in fitness. I thought it’d be cool.” So a helpful heuristic.

0:28:27.0 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I like that. It’s a heuristic that you’ve got to be very cautious with from the perspective of… I think you have to… The best is if you actually know the person, and not just go off of what you see them posting on social media. Because it’s one thing to like the idea of what they’re presenting their life is like, it’s another thing to actually know them and to see what their life is truly like. And I’m just cautious with the people who make it appear as though their whole life is just a movie. And it’s just, everything is great. Everything is, they’re a rock star. They’re just the coolest person. They’ve got all the best. But then you meet them in person and you’re like, “Oh, you’re actually psychotic.” You aren’t happy. You are a poison in everyone’s life. And…

0:29:25.8 Mike Vacanti: That’s a good point. They either need to be quite authentic or you need to know them personally.

0:29:30.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, exactly. I completely agree.

0:29:34.9 Mike Vacanti: But don’t get tricked.

0:29:36.1 Jordan Syatt: Also, I even think about this for me. I get people who tell me they’re like, “Oh my gosh, your life just looks amazing.” And I am biased. I think my life is amazing. But then these same people will be like, “I’d love to intern with you to see what your day to day is like.” And I’m like, “If you hung out with me, if you just watched me day to day and you just hung out, you would be super bored.”

0:29:56.5 Mike Vacanti: They’d be bored. But do you know what they would really be? Is they…

0:29:58.0 Jordan Syatt: They’d be like, “Oh shit, you work a lot.”

0:30:00.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. And imagine if they were doing it when you were really on the come up, when you were on that train going across the United States, working 16 hours a day, slamming coffees and emailing with clients. No.

0:30:11.6 Jordan Syatt: Correct. Yeah.

0:30:13.6 Mike Vacanti: And even now, just grinding.

0:30:16.5 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. They be like, “Oh shit, you do a lot of work. Oh shit.” It’s like, yeah. And then when I’m done with my work and I’m hanging out with my family, I’ll post videos of that. And then that’s what you’ll see. But I’m not posting videos of me when I’m fucking grinding because I’m fucking grinding. And like you see a seven second clip and think, “Oh man, that’s what I want.” It’s like, but that’s not the majority of my time.

0:30:42.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s a good point because content isn’t that transparent these days. I feel like it used to be more transparent…

0:30:48.0 Jordan Syatt: Even among the people who are transparent, I feel like it’s…

0:30:51.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but remember in like ’17 and ’18, we’d be in the movie room, making stories 2019, like it’s midnight. We’re grinding.

0:31:00.7 Jordan Syatt: Grinding, grinding.

0:31:03.5 Mike Vacanti: It’s 7:00 AM, we’re still grinding. I don’t know.

0:31:03.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, it definitely is less…

0:31:06.7 Mike Vacanti: Don’t get tricked. That’s the asterisk by this is don’t get tricked.

0:31:09.8 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, don’t get tricked. Don’t get fucking tricked.

0:31:14.8 Mike Vacanti: What’s your number three?

0:31:16.5 Jordan Syatt: My number three is another one from the conversation with the great Alan Aragon. It’s another thing that we discussed that I thought was…

0:31:27.6 Mike Vacanti: Is this what you were thinking of when I talked to you before the pod and you’re like, “I’m not going to tell you Now?”

0:31:31.8 Jordan Syatt: No, that was the collagen. That was the collagen one.

0:31:33.9 Mike Vacanti: Ah, okay.

0:31:35.0 Jordan Syatt: No, it was interesting because I asked Alan about artificial sweeteners. Big topic of discussion. And even among the people who are like very adamant, I still feel there’s uncertainty, which is fair because I still think there’s a lot of research to be done. But we were talking about artificial sweeteners and he had said that in order to reach what we know now to be an unsafe level over a long period of time, you’d have to be drinking gallons of diet soda, for example, aspartame, for gallons and gallons and gallons for years and years and years, and even then. And even then, the risk of harm is just so low, it’s not even funny.

0:32:23.5 Jordan Syatt: And then he said, he was like, so I tell my clients you know, “Try and keep it to one or two a day.” And then I was like, “Well, why only one or two a day if the risk of harm is so low?” And he was almost like a little bit taken aback. He’s like, “That’s a good question. Why do I have them limit it to one or two a day?” And I was like, “Is it because maybe there’s a risk that you’re not sure of? Or is it because you think that they should just get used to drinking fucking water and not having this sweet taste all the time in their mouth and they should be okay having a little bit of boredom and just bland stuff, just water?”

0:32:54.6 Jordan Syatt: And he said, “All of these are great questions.” But what he said was, it’s actually the caffeine. He’s like, you see people who are drinking six, seven, eight, nine, ten of these a day, and they’re having coffee. And then sometimes these people are having pre-workout as well. He’s like, it’s not uncommon to see people getting 600, 700, 800 plus milligrams of caffeine a day. And that is far more concerning than the artificial sweeteners. And so I told him, I said, “In a hypothetical situation, you’ve got a caffeine-free drink, zero caffeine, none in it, but it’s diet soda, so it has aspartame in these current levels.” He’s like, “I would have no issue with that.”

0:33:37.2 Mike Vacanti: Very interesting take, yeah. I’m with him on the artificial sweetener low risk of danger. I’m even more with him on monitoring caffeine intake. It’s an under-discussed point, perhaps, because some people do treat diet soda as their main source of hydration. And you think, oh, diet soda, it’s not like a shot of espresso or an energy drink or something pre-workout where you’re getting 200, 300, 400 milligrams of caffeine. It’s like 35 milligrams in a 12-ounce can of Diet Coke, or give or take a few, but that’s not going to do any damage. But if you’re drinking a two-liter a day, and some people legitimately do, the caffeine does add up. And so that’s important to pay attention to. I like that he brought that up.

0:34:31.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, I did as well. I like that a lot.

0:34:33.7 Mike Vacanti: Good job with your three things, Jordan.

0:34:35.7 Jordan Syatt: Thanks, brother.

0:34:36.5 Mike Vacanti: Jordan came in with one thing, and then he’s like, and I have an infinite list of what I talked to Alan about on the podcast. It’s fresh on my mind, so I will dig into that well of things. Hey, they made for pretty good things. All right, I’m actually going to pick the one here. We’re going to go with five, because this translates really well from what you just said, which is something you struggled with at one point, and you made a conscious effort to nip in the bud, and you did. I remember two, three, four years ago at one point. Do you have any idea where I’m going with this?

0:35:11.2 Jordan Syatt: Dude, I have no clue.

0:35:12.7 Mike Vacanti: Where’s your fear level, one to 100?

0:35:14.3 Jordan Syatt: Oh, it’s low, six.

0:35:16.1 Mike Vacanti: Nice, I love that. You were like, I just feel like I’m reaching for a Diet Coke more than I want to be, and treating it like water at some times, and I’d rather just be able to drink water and not have a Diet Coke. So that taken to the extreme is this next thought that I’m playing with, which is a fixed period of time, a test or a challenge.

0:35:46.0 Jordan Syatt: Are you proposing this to me?

0:35:48.1 Mike Vacanti: No, you’re not going to do it.

0:35:50.9 Jordan Syatt: Now you’re really trying to get me to do it with that reverse psychology right there.

0:35:55.8 Mike Vacanti: Brother, once you hear it, you’re not going to do it, and I’m not… None of us are going to do it.

0:35:58.6 Jordan Syatt: Oh it’s not the time with… Oh okay.

0:36:01.1 Mike Vacanti: No, it’d be sweet if one of us did, but I don’t think either of us… Look, I’m more likely to than you are, and it’s going to be very hard. This is like a 30 days would be impossible, but 60 or 90 days would be really cool, but also even more impossible. You only are allowed to get dopamine from things that are hard.

0:36:28.2 Jordan Syatt: That’s what she said.

0:36:29.5 Mike Vacanti: And you can’t get it from things that are easy for a complete reset of baseline neurotransmitters, given we’re really just being abused, like our brains are being abused by the content we consume, by the endless list of potential impulsive pleasures available to us constantly in this day and age, which is brand new in terms of all of human life. It’s like a last hundred years phenomenon, and it’s accelerating at such a rapid… Vertical video didn’t exist pre-COVID. Within the last 10 years, we used to not really have algorithms. Technically they were algorithms, but it was a chronological feed of the people you followed. These platforms weren’t optimized for keeping your attention on them for hours at a time. And Jordan’s actually very impressive. Jordan might think he spends time on social media, but he’s in his DMs. He’s creating every single day. Jordan’s kind of an anomaly. I know plenty of 16 to 24-year-olds who legitimately doom scroll for four to eight hours per day who aren’t producing anything, who are legit just deep doom scroll four to eight hours per day. Processed food, porn, dessert, there are so many places where dopamine is, and I’m using dopamine as a catch-all, not like a super scientific term here, but it would be an interesting 30-day challenge to no TV.

0:38:08.7 Jordan Syatt: No TV? I was going to ask, like no documentaries or something?

0:38:11.5 Mike Vacanti: No movies. Yeah, documentary, you could maybe get in there, but reading a book aloud.

0:38:17.5 Jordan Syatt: What about audiobook?

0:38:18.0 Mike Vacanti: Cold plunging aloud. Yeah, I would say audiobook is aloud. Working out is a big one that’s aloud, like getting endorphins, doing cardio, strength training. I actually don’t like the 30 days zero “delicious foods” or dessert foods because that goes against what I believe in terms of nutrition philosophy, but for this dopamine challenge…

0:38:43.0 Jordan Syatt: That’s also how you get a lot of dopamine.

0:38:45.5 Mike Vacanti: Maybe you got to throw it in there. Sometimes.

0:38:46.4 Jordan Syatt: That’s like your dopamine fix.

0:38:47.6 Mike Vacanti: No, not really.

0:38:52.7 Jordan Syatt: Okay.

0:38:53.5 Mike Vacanti: Way more social media than dopamine.

0:38:55.9 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:38:56.5 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but I am on day six of no more than scrolling for five minutes at a time.

0:39:03.0 Jordan Syatt: Oh, that’s amazing. Can you like… Do you ever cheat the system go right back in?

0:39:10.6 Mike Vacanti: No, I don’t. I thought about it, but I haven’t done that. That just seems immoral and against like the ethos of the experiment. We could make a comprehensive list, which would be interesting of hard… You can bucket it hard dopamine versus easy dopamine. Yeah, it would be fascinating. There’s really something to the impact that it could have on the brain. I don’t know if it’s sustainable because, think about food environment, but then you got to combine technology environment. You got to combine all of these places where it’s easy to get cheap feel good. It’d be interesting.

0:39:56.1 Jordan Syatt: So would I be able to have Diet Coke on that?

0:40:02.2 Mike Vacanti: No, I would categorize caffeine in the substances, like no alcohol.

0:40:07.1 Jordan Syatt: Really?

0:40:08.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, drugs, alcohol. I would throw caffeine in there for like this hardcore 30-day. Remember when dopamine detox was cool? This is what they were getting after. Video games, porn, like masturbation, all of these like…

0:40:20.6 Jordan Syatt: I’m more concerned with the caffeine.

0:40:24.1 Mike Vacanti: I wasn’t trying to say that you were more concerned with the latter part of the list. Yeah.

0:40:34.6 Jordan Syatt: Wow. Yeah. I’m definitely not.

0:40:36.3 Mike Vacanti: Fine we can put caffeine on there. Caffeine’s low, but…

0:40:38.1 Jordan Syatt: I would be more likely to do this if I could have a Diet Coke a day.

0:40:41.5 Mike Vacanti: I’m just actually trying to think of what like definitionally would be cheap versus hard dopamine.

0:40:50.4 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, that’s why I was… The first thought was TV, a documentary.

0:40:57.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, but a documentary 40 years ago is super enjoyable. Movies. Have you seen the content around like… When I really want to punish myself and do something difficult, I sit down and watch a movie and I don’t even scroll on my phone. I just watch a movie. Feels like writing an essay 20 years ago. Because it is we’re… And everyone listening can relate. You’re pulling your phone out mid-movie and watching reels because one thing can’t keep your attention because your brain is broken.

0:41:27.2 Jordan Syatt: Texting and just communicating. It’s like, how about you just stop communicating for two and a half hours?

0:41:31.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. That’s actually… I don’t know where that would go. Conversation in person, you have to be able to text, but…

0:41:39.7 Jordan Syatt: When was the last time you went to the movie theater?

0:41:46.3 Mike Vacanti: My dad and I saw the ‘Batman’ with Robert Patt, the guy from ‘Twilight’.

0:41:52.6 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, when was that?

0:41:54.2 Mike Vacanti: Whenever it came out. Two years ago? Two to three years ago.

0:41:56.0 Jordan Syatt: Did people have their phones out texting throughout the movie?

0:41:58.6 Mike Vacanti: I don’t know. I’m not… It’s dark and I’m not looking around. I really don’t know.

0:42:01.4 Jordan Syatt: Because that would infuriate me. Because I haven’t been in a movie theater in I have no idea how long, but I remember growing up going to movie theaters, people wouldn’t have their phones out because there was no… What are you going to do, play Snake on your Nokia? It’s like people weren’t doing that in movies back then, but I would imagine now with texting, a lot of people have their fucking phones out. That would drive me insane.

0:42:24.0 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, especially if you can see it and if the light is distracting. We should do it.

0:42:28.9 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. I would do a version of it. I wouldn’t do it the way that you outlined it. If I was going to do this, number one, it wouldn’t be a month. I would start with a day. You’re like, no, it’s got to be a month.

0:42:42.2 Mike Vacanti: Soft. Well, I just don’t think…

0:42:43.6 Jordan Syatt: You’re not even going to do it.

0:42:45.2 Mike Vacanti: I don’t think… I just don’t think you’re rewiring anything in a day. I don’t think you’re resetting your baseline in a day. And by the way, the experiment might not be worth doing at all because what’s the point in resetting your baseline if you’re just going to dive back into this pool of like virtual cocaine?

0:43:06.4 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. No, I would have to do it with… Getting off social media just isn’t really an option at this point.

0:43:17.6 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, I’m not asking you to do it. I just think it would be a cool… You know what it really was? I thought, what would happen if… How would this change my day-to-day life if I only got my feel-good neurotransmitters from things that were difficult and good for me instead of got it from things that were cheap, easy, and bad for me?

0:43:41.8 Jordan Syatt: It’d feel amazing. It would feel… Life would go… Every day would be so much slower.

0:43:46.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah, which I think would lead to boredom, which would lead to the craving. But over time that would dissipate.

0:43:52.9 Jordan Syatt: You know who does it right is the Amish.

0:43:54.5 Mike Vacanti: I agree.

0:43:55.4 Jordan Syatt: They live like that every day.

0:43:57.4 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. They are living right.

0:44:00.8 Jordan Syatt: That’s the right way to live. That’s what they do.

0:44:02.7 Mike Vacanti: Do you find that it’s popular and lots of people are obsessed with this idea that I constantly bring up on the podcast, or do you find that I’m more of an anomaly in having an obsession with this idea?

0:44:16.6 Jordan Syatt: There’s a subset of the… There’s a group of people that I would put you in that are really into this stuff. I don’t think it’s as… I don’t think it’s super common, but I do see these people online, which I always find ironic. But yeah, it’s…

0:44:34.7 Mike Vacanti: I’ve thought about that. Well, at least they’re posting about it instead of consuming it.

0:44:37.1 Jordan Syatt: Well, that’s the thing is I think most people who are like this are not really posting very much, so you tend not to see as many of them online.

0:44:44.4 Mike Vacanti: But they should be the ones posting more because it’s almost like saving people from the trenches.

0:44:49.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, but they’re not willing to sacrifice their own health and sanity.

0:44:53.8 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Can see that argued either way. Jordan, give me your Mount Rushmore of sports.

0:45:00.6 Jordan Syatt: Now, does this factor into how they are as a human being or just their athletic prowess?

0:45:06.2 Mike Vacanti: You can do it however you like.

0:45:08.9 Jordan Syatt: Well, give me… Because if it factors into how they are as a human being, then the first one I’m going to say is off the list. But if it’s just based on pure athleticism…

0:45:18.2 Mike Vacanti: Who was that person?

0:45:20.3 Jordan Syatt: Jon Jones.

0:45:21.4 Mike Vacanti: Ah. No, let’s make it…

0:45:24.9 Jordan Syatt: Just athletic?

0:45:27.9 Mike Vacanti: At least 90% to 95% athleticism.

0:45:30.7 Jordan Syatt: If it’s just athleticism, Jon Jones.

0:45:34.7 Mike Vacanti: Okay, he’s number one.

0:45:35.9 Jordan Syatt: He’s gotta be… How many… Do I have three or four people? Is that all I have?

0:45:40.5 Mike Vacanti: Four. Yeah.

0:45:41.1 Jordan Syatt: Four? Okay. Jon Jones. I would say… I don’t like this. I don’t like really him either, but LeBron James, just absolute freak. Jon Jones, LeBron James. I’ll say… Let me think. Who else is in there? And here’s what I’m doing. Here’s how I’m classifying this in my head. It’s not classified based on just how good they are in their own sport. It’s also… Do I think… How good do I think they would be in literally any sport they tried?

0:46:28.2 Mike Vacanti: Oh, that’s fascinating.

0:46:30.2 Jordan Syatt: So that’s where my brain went.

0:46:32.5 Mike Vacanti: That wasn’t the point of the drill. Okay, that’ll be your Mount Rushmore.

0:46:33.1 Jordan Syatt: My Mount Rushmore is, who are the greatest athletes, who, you put them in any sport and they’re going to dominate. That’s where my brain went.

0:46:41.9 Mike Vacanti: Then I feel like you need to pick some multi-sport guys.

0:46:45.6 Jordan Syatt: Well, so I was thinking…

0:46:49.7 Mike Vacanti: Bo Jackson.

0:46:51.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah. Well, part of me was going to say Michael Jordan because he played baseball, but he just wasn’t really good at baseball. And also, obviously, a freak athlete, and I think the greatest basketball player of all time. But in terms of…

0:47:01.7 Mike Vacanti: The greatest basketball player of all time.

0:47:03.2 Jordan Syatt: A hundred percent the greatest basketball player of all time. I’m just thinking you put Michael Jordan at his peak versus LeBron James at his peak in any sport. I think you could put LeBron James in MMA and he could… You know what I mean?

0:47:16.2 Mike Vacanti: I agree, but it’s hard to compare eras.

0:47:19.0 Jordan Syatt: Of course. I completely agree. I completely agree.

0:47:21.1 Mike Vacanti: Games different, competitions different, technology’s different.

0:47:24.3 Jordan Syatt: We’ll go Jon Jones, LeBron James. You know who I’m going to say? Georges St-Pierre. And he would be on there even if… Especially also good human beings. He’d be on there, too. Just he’s the model athlete. And then, Alexander Ovechkin.

0:47:48.4 Mike Vacanti: Sweet.

0:47:49.8 Jordan Syatt: What about you?

0:47:52.5 Mike Vacanti: Jordan, Brady, Gretzky, Tiger.

0:47:56.5 Jordan Syatt: Oh, yeah. They’re just the greatest of their sports. Yeah, they’re the greatest of their sports without question. Completely agree with that.

0:48:04.2 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. With some… Like, Jordan, LeBron, I understand. Tiger, Jack, I understand.

0:48:09.3 Jordan Syatt: No, I don’t even think Jordan, LeBron is a… It shouldn’t even be a fucking debate. Jordan is the greatest ballplayer of all time.

0:48:15.6 Mike Vacanti: I agree. But it’s a debate. And then you can mix in… I also just bias towards the big four sports. I knew you would throw some MMA in there.

0:48:25.9 Jordan Syatt: What if you had to pick people just based on my metric?

0:48:30.6 Mike Vacanti: All right, give me yours. That they could dominate other sports and…

0:48:35.1 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, the most, like…

0:48:36.9 Mike Vacanti: Slash how they are as a human being gets factored in too.

0:48:38.2 Jordan Syatt: No. Not how they are as a human being. Because if it was human being, I would take a couple of those people off.

0:48:42.5 Mike Vacanti: Well, GSPs… Yeah. So it’s almost just freak athleticism?

0:48:48.3 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, freak athleticism. Yeah. The freakiest athletes of all time.

0:48:52.4 Mike Vacanti: Dude, I don’t know. I think I would have to look at the dual sport athletes or guys who were multiple positions showed versatility. Not just the idea like hey, this guy’s a freak NBA player. He could be a top 10 tight end in the NFL. But people who actually did it. Like a Deion Sanders. Yeah. Like a Bo Jackson. Even thinking about… Because when I was thinking of Mount Rushmore, I was thinking of accolades in their individual sport, but in sports that are less popular or that I care about less. And thinking a Michael Phelps or a Usain Bolt or even a Serena Williams were some of the names of people who were dominant. But that’s not your list. That’s a high degree of specificity.

0:49:49.7 Jordan Syatt: Yeah, you’re doing it just like when they were playing their sport at their time, who was the most dominant. Yeah, Serena Williams, obviously. Yeah, Michael Phelps, obviously. Kipchoge. You got fucking… Yeah.

0:50:08.7 Mike Vacanti: Yeah. Great episode. Thank you very much for listening. Shout out to David, the Goat. Jordan and I are late getting this one recorded, which was my fault, actually. I don’t really want to blame my daughter. I’m not going to blame my sweet little daughter. But we were supposed to… I’ll just tell the story. We were supposed to record on Tuesday, and it was a rough… I legit don’t think I had slept, and it was 6:00 AM. I also had Gary at 4:30 AM, which isn’t our normal time. It just worked out that way. And so by the time I was finally going to sleep, then it’s like, “Oh, I got to coach Gary in an hour.” So I didn’t even go to sleep. And I was like, “Dude, we’re not podding today.” But David getting it ready on time, thank you very much. Jordan, your flexibility rescheduling. Always the P.

0:50:56.2 Jordan Syatt: Thank you everyone for listening.

0:50:57.8 Mike Vacanti: Oh, subscribe on YouTube, please. We never push the YouTube channel, but just for vanity metrics, we would like you to subscribe on YouTube. If you’ve listened this far, just so we can know who really made it late in the episode, just hit YouTube, personal trainer podcast. You’ll see our little mug from like five years ago, and just ding, subscribe.

0:51:15.6 Jordan Syatt: Ding.

0:51:16.1 Mike Vacanti: See you next week.

0:51:16.9 Jordan Syatt: See you.